The thread is open.
As requested by @Growing_Beautifully.
Please post comments in the appropriate Open Threads.
Remember, you can always search and pull up the threads from the Categories box.
Will contain spoilers.
Enjoy the show.
46 Comments On “Lost You Forever: Eps 19 to 24 Open Thread”
Comments are closed.
I’m leaving a post here so that I’ll not miss anyone’s comment! 🙂
Some random thoughts after finishing ep 21:
I’ll confess that I’m really not interested at all in CX or his fight for the throne. I prefer him in the brother role and don’t really want to see him jealous over Jing or XL.
Speaking of XL…when she admitted in not so many words that if she wasn’t careful, XL would slip into her dreams (heart) and how that would be terrible…I hurt for him because her words cut him and she didn’t even realize it.
I find Jing a bit too mild-mannered. At least he’s making progress in getting out of the engagement with the crazy woman.
Hi @Stacy, ‘crazy woman’ LOL you put it so diplomatically!!! I have not figured out the rationale for Yiying to hang on so tightly to the engagement when it’s obvious that she does not want to marry Jing. Perhaps the novel gives more background as to why she can’t just negotiate to marry Hou instead of Jing. I do agree with you that she’s stark staring mad to be wanting to marry a man who tortured his brother the way he did. What’s to stop him from torturing an unwanted woman/lover?
Generally, for many viewers, the other male leads cannot hold a candle to Xiang Liu. When XL is missing, the story flags, the scenes are dull. But to be fair, if there was nothing to this show except the romances or non-romances, we’d be complaining too!!
If I were XL, I’d take the positive aspect of this as well … that he was able to slip into her dreams/heart. That means that she did have a positive regard for him, that she found him attractive and that if Jing was not around, he’d have likely been the first choice of boyfriend for her.
No one is simple enough that just liking them is the right thing. The complex characters, their well envisioned and rational motivations that contradict and challenge, and the fact that all are grey (maybe except Jing?) make the tale captivating. As yet, as long as the novel’s ending is not the one the Show is going for, all will be unpredictable until the end.
I’ve been enjoying the OSTs, both the songs and the background music (BGM) but the conclusion that I draw from the sweet, haunting and melancholy melodies, filled with longing, is that we may not see as happy an ending as we might wish.
I’m watching the new episodes even as I rewatch the old ones. The good news is that the pace, in terms of dialogue, does not flag. I don’t know how Show does it, but although on the one hand nothing much happens in decades, it still feels like a lot has taken place. I guess it was because we get to see our XL a lot… LOL.
@GB – you read my mind! I was going to post something similar.
In fact, I think we should be prepared for a difficult ending.
I am starting to feel quite tender about watching this show.
Perhaps we will need to ask for a LYF support discussion!! LOL
@Kate, LOL,… what a good idea!!! We will form our LYF Support Group if the ending goes South LOL. 😫😢😭😬🥹😅😄
@GB… With hot comforting drinks, 24 hour counselling availability, wall to wall OST playing…! LOL
@Kate, I can see it as you describe it. I’ll bring in the lounge chairs and we can get/make a whole bunch of posters to cover the walls and ceiling… we’ll choose the happy together looking pictures… and lots of XL ones!! LOL.
LOL!!!
@Stacy – I saw an interview with the actor who plays CX.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vynNIrQAipQ
The interviewer is trying to get him to spill the beans…
He makes the comment at around 1 minute 50”
I’ve finally made it back to rewatch Episode 19 and realise that I must have slept through most of it on my first watch, because I missed a whole lot of conversation between XY and XL.
😪😴😑🙄 😲🤔🤭🤫
One take away I received when I review the XY and XL Conversation where he met her underwater and she refused his help to breathe is that he absolutely hates it if he thinks someone he trusts lies to him. On this occasion, XL had come to watch XY who had told him that she had no one to protect her and nowhere to go, being presented as the Great Princess of Haoling. This meant that she had lied. Being no respecter of persons, Princess or not, XL is determined to punish her.
He holds her down underwater so that she needs his help or will drown, but to his surprise she refuses to kiss him to get air to breathe.
XL : “Princess of Haoling. No wonder you insisted on saving Cang Xuan that day. What else did you say which were lies? Why not come clean about them all today?” He’s has his hand behind her head and his claws come out. “Don’t worry, I won’t kill you.”
XY : “I’ve told you. I only talk nonsense, not lies. Everything I’ve told you before is true.” He looks carefully at her eyes and withdraws his claws. (He should not forget that if he hurts her, he, too will feel the pain!)
They have a short moment of camaraderie when he willingly downs the poison that she gives him, without concern, because she tells him that she had made it specially for him. Perhaps it’s rare that anyone does anything specially for him before he asks for it, (he seemed to value the fact that she said it was specially for him) or because it is part of their original deal that she makes poisons for him.
The poison has no effect on him.
XL : “I’ve disappointed you again.”
XY : “I will continue to work hard.” LOLOL.
XL actually smiles at this while XY looks determined. XL dries her clothes in an instant and they sit together on the shore.
XL orders : “Make more poisons for me in the future.”
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
XY looks at XL… as if she ever had a choice : “Okay. But you have to promise me, don’t get A Nian involved anymore. She’s well protected by my father, unable to resist schemes of the likes of you.”
XL is curious : “The likes of me? What kind of person am I?”
XY : “You know it well.“
XL : “She hasn’t considered you her sister, but you are already playing the role of a good sister.”
XY : “In relationships between people, someone has to take the first step. The same goes for romantic relationships, and for parent-child relationships. The reason why I first show kindness to Nian, is not because she is so good or worthy, but because of my father and Cang Xuan.”
XL has been looking at and listening to her carefully. Perhaps he’s getting more lessons in inter-relationships from XY?
XY becomes aware that XL is staring at her and looks at him.
XY : “Why are you always looking at me? (She laughs). If you want to see good looks, you’re better off looking in a mirror.” (So she’s admitting that he’s good looking.)
XL : “When we were underwater, why didn’t you let me help you breathe even at the risk of dying?”
XY makes the mistake of lying again : “I was dizzy at that time. Who would remember?” XL recognizes the lie at once and grabs hold of her by the back of her neck and brings her face close to his.
XL : “Do you need me to help you recall?”
XY : “I remember.” … “Because I was afraid.”
XL : “Scared? Scared of what?”
XY : “You. I was scared of you.” (She had given this same answer to him some time before as Wen Xiao Liu, when he was drinking her blood, and that time he’d known that she was lying, but was not upset. This time he believes her that she’s telling the truth and he’s stunned.)
(To be continued…)
(Continued)
XL lets go of XY, but seems transfixed, shocked, disappointed, resigned? He smiles sardonically.
XL : “Kissing me would be more terrifying than death?”
XY : “My brother chatted with me one night. He laughed at me for being a girl who still daydreams.”
XY :“Continue.”
XY looks at XL : “Although the possibility is very small, I’m still scared that I might accidentally let you into my dreams.” (As in daydreams?… As in dreaming of being close to him. So she means that she does not want to accidentally let her guard down and let him get close. Might it be because she felt that he was more likely to abandon her than anyone else?)
XY continues as XL looks steadily at her : “You are in no way the type to be in a girl’s dream. This is probably more terrifying than death.” (This part probably hurt him a great deal.)
He considers what she says and at first seems amused. He actually laughs but he is upset.
XY : “This is just a girl’s nonsense. I know you’re generous. Please don’t …”
He stands up suddenly looking serious.
XY is alarmed that XL is leaving her to go back on her own across the sea. But he adamantly orders her to swim back by herself and walks off.
I’m laughing over the fact that he explains : “I’m doing this for your own good. What if I’m too gentle and considerate to you and accidentally enter your dream, making your life worse than death? Wouldn’t that be a sin?” (LOLOL well she asked for it, really! That was the time to lie diplomatically.
One would think that after 300 years as a man, XY could have come up with something less girly than fear of letting him into her dreams.)
We find that although XY swims by herself and reaches almost to the other shore where Jing is waiting, that XL had not abandoned her.
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
XL had been hovering nearby to make sure that XY made it to shore. He watches from the sea – perhaps invisible to Jing and XY – that XY is safe.
He recalls what she’d told him : “I’m still scared that I might accidentally let you into my dreams.” … “You are in no way the type to be in a girl’s dream. This is probably more terrifying than death.”
He watches as XY looks trustingly at Jing who’s carrying her… maybe he notes: there’s the man who can safely be in a girl’s dreams. He feels pain and the love bug in his heart lights up. Perhaps he’s has just experienced jealousy and that incites the bug to bite him, LOL.
He remembers the old man Lirong’s warning : “The Poisonous Love Bug wants not only your life but also your heart. You have nine lives but you have only one heart. Even so, there will be endless trouble. The couple couldn’t live together. They might also be killed by the poisonous bugs.” XY suppresses the bug with some difficulty using spiritual energy.
The bug seems to be giving him its version of a ‘broken heart’ as he watches a peaceful XY who had recently rejected kissing him, being carried away by Jing.
(How do we interpret what the Poisonous Love Bugs do? Does Lirong mean that if the couple who carry the bugs do not live together like a couple, they might be killed by the bugs?)
With regard to XY’s fear of having a kiss with someone and then that person would enter her daydreams. Does this not mean that XL is a candidate for her daydreams? In fact, might he already be a lot on her mind? We may recall that just at the beginning of Episode 19, King Daddy had caught her looking fondly and laughing at images of XL in her Ape Mirror. It’s interesting that she kept no images of anyone else, except XL.
I’d guess that kiss or no kiss, XL was already in her dreams but she did not want to make it worse by kissing him even to get air to breathe!! In fact I thought he was quite cunning, forcing a kiss, so to speak, by punishing her underwater.
My simple thought is that even without an underwater kiss, XL would certainly enter many viewers’ dreams. Heh! 😍😘😚😋🫢🤭🫣🤫
Hi @GB!
Just back from walk in unexpected sunshine.
Thank you for transcribing this key scene and important dialogue.
I agree with you that XY has given a lot away in the way she excuses herself from the opportunity for an air-restoring kiss!
I am sorry that it is hurtful to XL.
I hope that XL can see through XY’s nervousness to the meaning behind it ie we can surmise that it is because he is someone attractive to her and dangerous at the same time. Dangerous because she doesn’t control him. His love might overpower her in the way the safe, snuggly love for Jing does not.
Do you agree?
He was cunning to force the issue… another XL testing out XY moment. He wants to know where he stands with her. He is not without proper human feelings and desire for reciprocity.
Could he, would he have changed his mind if at this point in the relationship XY had surrendered to a kiss?????
Some people have commented that this episode and the heart break he experiences as XY goes to Jing MAY have been the fork in the road moment….????
You also underlined XL’s utter non-acceptance of lying and people who lie to him.
Where was the scene where he muttered to himself bitterly about XY having, in his thinking, lied to him about her origins.
She hadn’t told him about being a royal princess.
He had after all bonded with her on the basis of her account of abandonment and not belonging to anyone.
EPISODE 19 – THE THREE GUYS
Honestly, 1 girl gets these guys behaving like sad sack teens.
Cang Xuan
He’s displeased that Jing is hovering around Fenglong, which means he’s near XY. He pointedly goes home to XY and asks whom she would choose if she had to choose between Jing and CX. She gives him the answer that gets him smiling.
XY : “CX, I’ve been a man for hundreds of years. Neither my mindset nor my actions are those of a little girl. Today’s intimacy between lovers may turn into heartlessness tomorrow. Love arrives passionately and fades fleetingly. But the two of us share a blood relation, it’s like we’re sharing one life.”
CX still wants to be sure : “You mean you’d choose me?”
XY : “Whatever you want to do, just go ahead. Since now I’m here with you, I’ll be with you till the end. If the Tushan Family becomes your enemy, they will be mine too.”
But when XY decides to see Jing outside the Dragon Bone Prison (their almost love nest LOLOL), we find CX drinking himself under the table.
Tushan Jing
Jing asks to meet XY outside the Dragon Bone Prison. While XY gets delayed by XL, Jing does only 1 thing. He waits at the waters’ edge for XY ALL night, with the tide rising to almost his waist. Couldn’t he have waited where he could remain dry? Couldn’t he just walk up the shore? The foolishness is profound.
Jing to XY : “I’ve been waiting for you here all night. I thought you weren’t coming.”
XY : “Since you thought so, why did you wait here?” (Yes, precisely!)
Jing : “Besides that I didn’t know what else to do.” (This really makes him a sad sack! No wonder the fans of the novel who like Jing’s character there are upset by his portrayal here.)
XY : “Aren’t you going to ask me why I was late yesterday?”
Jing : “As long as you can come, nothing else matters.” (Spoken like a loser LOL. Not true. It matters!)
(To be continued…)
(Continued …)
Xiang Liu
What a childish and dangerous trick! And getting naive A Nian involved! What a waste of time, forcing XY to kiss and tell (the truth) when he could have had a heart-to-heart with her all nice and dry.
They could have gone for a long walk on the water, watched the sunset, etc but he had to have his demon’s tantrum punishment event. Well instead of making him feel better, he probably felt bitter, and had a bug-bitten heartache to boot.
But I loved how he threw back all the words that XY had said to him to her face. It showed that he was upset but not too upset. It was really funny. But he was like the other 2 guys, pretty childish too!!!
For fun @GB….https://www.facebook.com/niao.yang89/videos/593944872686874/?idorvanity=374673724446311
@GB great analysis of the guys and the gap between words and actual behaviour!
I love it.
They are all teenagers in their way! Nicely done.
I have responded further up to your earlier comments. Very enjoyable.
Also that why won’t XY kiss XL scene and the conversation – is significant methinks!
Hi @Kate!
XY if she had to choose between Jing and CX claims she would choose CX.
XY if she has to choose between safe and snuggly Jing (LOL) and XL, she would likely choose Jing as the safer bet, the sweeter one who does not order her about or demand anything, but… her words have revealed that she finds XL attractive. He’s the good looking one that she admired in her Ape Mirror. She’s the one she does not dare to kiss.
Yes, this point… how far might XY know that XL is human enough to want a reciprocal relationship? She was not able to put into words what she meant by ‘the likes of you’ when she referred to XL.
I expected him to bristle at this, but he mildly asked what she meant.
I believe a normal, sincere kiss between them would have changed something in their relationship. But a kiss to save her life… I’m not sure. I don’t think he was really as wounded as he dramatically made himself out to be. He was just paying her back by walking away. What hurt him more was seeing her with Jing.
“Fork in the road moment”?? as in XL would have pursued XY regardless of Jing? But chose the other road and did not make any romantic gestures?
Maybe. It’s hard to say, how he’d have behaved if he weren’t angry. It’s not clear if he meant to reveal that he likes her or if the meeting was just punishment that went awry. LOL.
Hi @GB,
That’s one of the arguments I have seen… that XL might have pursued XY had she seemed more receptive.
I don’t think we have evidence either way.
Did he ever envisage himself ending up with her?? I don’t think we have clear evidence of that either.
@Kate,
Thanks for the FB video. Yes, we’d most of us choose XL. Jing would be too boring LOL. The quintessential ‘Yes’ man… I recall how I sighed every time he said “Hao” to what XY instructed him to do.
It was in Episode 18, when the Storyteller Stone Spirit told the story of Haoling King’s invitation. Somehow XL knew it referred to XY and got fed up. He sat up in a tree to drink and complain to himself that she’d lied.
Yes … He had after all bonded with her on the basis of her account of abandonment and not belonging to anyone. And that was why he felt betrayed and was so angry.
The significance of refusing to kiss. Rather! XY is likely conflicted about XL. On the one hand she considers him a friend of sorts, she thinks him a good person overall, she commiserates with his past sufferings and admires the good he does do currently, but she also knows he is dangerous and ruthless and that one day it’s possible either CX will kill him or vice versa. Kissing him would mean that she accepts the good with the bad, that she ends up betraying CX, definitely it would be betrayal of Jing (they have the wait for 15-years promise).
But since she admitted that he could enter her dreams, she was also struggling with herself, to keep him out. Maybe that’s why her words sounded so harsh: “You are in no way the type to be in a girl’s dream. This is probably more terrifying than death.” She might have been trying to convince herself!
The “type”: the safe type? Generally anyone (girl or guy) after encountering XL would not want to have romantic daydreams about him LOL. He’s the wrong type.
But because although he’s the wrong type, and yet he could still be someone XY would daydream about, it was more terrifying for her than death. She would have to struggle against her own inclinations. It was safer to reject him outright and keep him as a friend, but not as a possible boyfriend from the outset.
@Kate, I guess that the minute XL realised how he felt about XY and even accepted the love bug, the human side of him would be on the lookout for signs that she might reciprocate. But the rational side of him would know all the reasons why it was a bad idea. Their situation was a bit of a Romeo and Juliet thing except that they do not acknowledge their feelings to each other, but the ‘family’ feud thingy was (is) real, and the original intent between CX and XL was to fight to the death.
@GB – Good morning! I love your reflections on the XL – XY axis!
It’s helping me – and I hope it’s helping you too – be prepared, in advance, for any storyline.
Yes, would I want my life to be completely entwined with XL – not as XL – possibly as reformed FBB? Good point.
I like the way you contrast the human versus the rational strategist in XL. Makes perfect sense.
XL is fanged and dangerous. Jing is de-fanged in most senses of the word.
CX is hiding his fangs at the moment, metaphorically.
EPISODES 20-21
XY AND JING ON THE BEACH – THE OTHER KISS
XY gets saved by Jing after XL lets her swim by herself to the Dragon Prison shore. She opines that she flip-flopped regretting that she was risking her life to keep a promise to meet, did not regret it when she saw him but then when Jing takes her hand she puts his hand away and says : XY : “I kept my promise to Ye Shi Qi, but you are not him. … You are Tushan Jing.”
Jing has lost confidence and is disgusted with himself because Yiying showed aversion when she saw the scars on his body.
Jing’s devotion springs from his appreciation that XY was the rare person who would embrace him without disgust. At least XY squirms and confesses that she’d not meant to save him at first too. She confesses that she, too, had been in the deplorable state before and had no right to despise him.
XY : “How can you despise yourself because of Yiying’s attitude towards you? Even if others judge you by your appearance, and wealth, don’t you know who you are? … Last night, a man forced me to kiss him. But now I just want to kiss you.” (Fortunately XL had walked away. I assume that the love bug does not inform him what XY might be doing with another man?)
She gives Jing a peck on the lips but he does not respond. When he does, he gives her a brotherly kiss on the forehead instead. She asks why he didn’t kiss her on the lips.
Jing : “It’s not the time yet.” And he says he’s not the kind of man who’d get physical with a woman he likes. LOL she wants to know when they can get physical. He does not know.
We hear his thoughts that he’s leaving it up to her. Although he wants to kiss her, he also wants her love, rather than her pity.
EPISODE 20
XY AND JING – THE OTHER BOAT RIDE
XY goes about town as a lady. She ends up meeting CX and his friends, Fenglong, Xin Yue, Jing, Hou and Yiying and they decide to take a short pleasure cruise on Xin Yue’s boat.
When everyone else goes swimming or trysting, Jing and XY are alone on board. XY feels a bit seasick after drinking too much or too fast. Jing gives her a herbal packet whose scent can relieve nausea. He claims she taught him how, and he will never forget anything she taught him.
They admitted that when they’d all 6 been drinking, both of them had been jealous: XY of Yiying who served Jing, and Jing of Fenglong who took care of XY.
XY says (sounds like a warning) : “I’m willing to care about you. But I’m not willing to do it because of Yiying. No matter how good something is, if it’s not worth it, I will give it up.”
Jing asks XY to wait for him. He wants to ask her father officially for her hand. Again he asks her to keep her heart for him.
XY realizes that he’s a cunning man. He had sent her green plum wine as a way to remind her of their promise. She notes that he does not dare to have her but at the same time, he won’t let her go.
He apologises that he has no choice, that even when he knows she deserves better, he is unable to let her go. He confesses that sending her the green plum wine was also to show that he’s missing her. This means a lot to the girl who’d been abandoned and thought she’d been forgotten or that other things had taken priority over her. XY smiles and is delighted.
GREEN PLUM WINE / FANGFENG BEI AND XY
It is because the constant delivery of green plum wine assures XY that she’s being missed by Jing, that by the end of Episode 22, XY starts getting upset that the supply of Green Plum Wine ceases. She does not know that Jing had stopped sending the wine because he suspected someone was tampering with it. Instead she assumes that he’s with Yiying and has put her aside.
It’s an opportune time for Fangfeng Bei to make an appearance in her life.
By the time Jing hears of FFB being very close to XY, XY has become cold and distant towards Jing. I’d have thought a simple message to explain why the wine was withheld would have done wonders, but again, that easy expedient was overlooked by the ‘lover’. Or was it bad protocol for an engaged man to send a message directly to the woman? He would send messages only through CX, as if only with CX’s permission.
DATES WITH FFB – REASONS AND A GUESS AS TO WHY XY AGREED TO ‘PLAY’ WITH FFB.
1) She was likely bored while CX was busy, and FFB was an intriguing companion. He was also very hard to shake off.
2) She wanted to penetrate his true identity.
3) She wanted to find out what FFB was really after.
4) He was someone who had been commissioned to kill CX, hence it was good to keep an enemy very close.
5) (Guess) News of their ‘dates’ might shake up Jing with whom she was upset at this stage.
EPISODE 22
XY AND XL – ARCHERY
XY is just sending off poisoned goodies to Qingshui Town, likely to XL when she sees FFB looking at her on the street. FFB had almost shot CX just a few nights previously.
FBB asks : “Do you remember me?”
XY : “Since I just escaped from your arrow, it should be hard to forget you.”’
FFB : “How could I shoot an arrow at you? You must be mistaken.”
She walks off and he follows her. She says every time she sees him, she wants to poison him.
XL : “Do you hate your friend?”
XY : “It’s not about my friend. It’s you.”
XL : “Oh.” LOL (He looks cute when he says ‘Oh’) But he keeps following her.
XL : “I’m bored and you look bored too. Being bored together is better than being bored alone, right?”
XY : “What are you here for?”
XL : “I can’t do my things in the light, so I’m busy at night. I feel quite bored during the day.”
XY : “I have to say you’re really …”
FBB finishes her sentences with a laugh : “Shameless.”…”If I’m not, how can I dare to pester such a pretty lady like you?”
XY quickens her step.
XL : “If you ignore me today, I will prepare for my next encounter with you.”
She stops so suddenly he has to go back a step.
XY : “Why do you want to meet me?”
XL : “There is a lady. She is beautiful. I met her by fate and fell in love with her at first sight.”
XY : “Do you think I believe you?”
He smiles : “I you believe it, I dare not say it.” … “Do you want to watch me shoot arrows?”
She agrees and he impresses her by shooting just 1 flower off a far away tree. He gives her the flower as a token of his affection.
XY thinks : His archery is astonishing. If he truly intended to kill us that night, neither CX nor I would have escaped.
He offers to teach her archery and claims that although anyone can teach her, he is the best teacher for her. She does not question this… I would. What makes him so cocky?
She accepts.
FBB is all charm : “How can I say no to you.”
(To be continued…)
(Continued)
Archery Lessons with FFB
He is a good teacher, and encouraging : “Archery requires skills. It’s about using strength in a smart way. If people without spirit power shoot, with correct method, they still can hit those with much higher spirit power. “
XY hits the target twice with FFB’s help.
XY : If you were a master, your disciples would like you.”
FBB : “My method is only suitable for smart people.”
XY : “I’m flattered.”
He asks if she’s interested in learning archery from him.
XY thinks : “Even if it’s a trap, I’ll jump in.” (That’s the kind of heroine we like although I’m sure some will consider her unwise.)
She nods.
FBB : “If you accompany me to kill the time, I’ll teach you.” (The archery lesson fair deal that XL would bring up in the future).
They go for a meal at a tavern, where the owner recognises FFB and comments on the beautiful ladies he brings. XY wryly notes that there must be more than 10 women who’ve kept him company, all of whom he may have fallen for at first sight!
He says that all that he learnt from entertaining other women is meant for pleasing her that day. He’s extremely charming and attentive at the tavern. She watches him eat bread and decides that he’s not XL. (I guess it’s because in her presence, XL had never eaten normal food? Something about him seemed unlike XL, but then XL had so many faces and sides of him that XY had never seen, so it’s premature for her to make up her mind about this.)
Meanwhile Jing has his own informants and gets a message about XY. Her dates with FFB included:
– Hanging out together on the streets.
– Eating delicacies and enjoying entertainment.
– Traveling together, lingering in the mountain and staying out late (LOL sounds like what one would report to one’s mum about one’s siblings).
There was no mention of archery lessons, however it’s obvious that XY and FFB must have spent several weeks/months(?) together. Now we understand why readers and viewers would want XY and FFB/XL to get together. They spent so much more time dating!
Recalling that XY had warned: ““I’m a heartless person. I’m heartless to others but more so to myself. No matter how good something is, if it’s not worth it, I will let it go.” Jing decides to make an immediate trip to get within XY’s proximity.
(Continued…)
EPISODE 23
SIGNS OF FFB FLIRTING WITH XY (XL’S INDIRECT CONFESSION?)
At the underground Casino run by the Lirong Family, XY watches the slaves fight to the death. Upon death, they might revert to their true forms. We see a dead slave revert to being a dog. XY decides to speak with the surviving slave to give him hope and a desire to live. She makes a bet with FFB on whom would be more successful in engendering hope in the slave. She loses, although she touched the boy gently and practically hugged him. She wants to know what FFB said to make the boy’s eyes light up with hope but he’s not telling. He says although the slave boy may not be susceptible to a beauty trap, he (FFB) is (LOL), and suggests she gives him a hug (maybe he was envious that the boy was almost hugged by XY).
Fed-up with FFB, XY is petulant as they walk outside. To appease her FFB begs to tell her what he said to the slave.
XY : “Okay, how are you going to beg me?”
He pulls her closer : “I will hug you. I’m willing to throw myself at you.”
She gets worried and pushes him away : “FFB are you making fun of me.”
XY : “Are you going to tell me? If not I will really be angry.”
FFB : “Fine I’ll tell you.”
FFB says that he told the boy, he’d once been a slave in the arena too and had survived. At first XY does not believe that FFB told the truth but he says he used a language of the demon saves in the arena. XY knows that even the slave owners cannot understand that language. “How do you know it?”
FFB : “Maybe I was really a slave in the arena.”
XY looks at him with new eyes and asks again who he is.
FFB laughs : “Who do you hope I am?”
XY puts one hand over his heart, and the other over her own, and notes that their hearts beat at the same pace.
They stand in the street with her hands on their hearts and that’s the time Jing passes by with Yiying. Yiying stops to say high to her 2nd Brother. Of course XY is cold towards Jing, since this comes at a time when she’s angry with Jing and worse, she finds that Yiying is with him. It seems that what she suspected is true ie he’s been neglecting XY for Yiying. Jing of course is upset to see that XY is close enough to FFB to be touching him.
Jing gets introduced to FFB and offers him a place to stay in the Tushan’s residence at Zhi Yi. Loathed to let XY continue alone with FFB, Jing offers them a ride but XY rejects it and takes FFB’s arm (to provoke Jing) and walks off with FFB. FFB is amused. He knows XY is using him to poke Jing.
Well, @Kate, we were saying that there were no indications that XL intended to confess to XY if only she’d been more receptive to a kiss. Here we see that as the playboy FFB, it could be XL putting on a show, or XL showing the side of him he’d hidden all along, ie the side that wanted to have a relationship with XY and was testing the waters with her, playing more mind-games even, to see if she wanted him to be XL.
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
EPISODE 23
SIGNS OF FFB FLIRTING WITH XY (XL’S INDIRECT CONFESSION?)
At the underground Casino run by the Lirong Family, XY watches the slaves fight to the death. Upon death, they might revert to their true forms. We see a dead slave revert to being a dog. XY decides to speak with the surviving slave to give him hope and a desire to live. She makes a bet with FFB on whom would be more successful in engendering hope in the slave. She loses, although she touched the boy gently and practically hugged him. She wants to know what FFB said to make the boy’s eyes light up with hope but he’s not telling. He says although the slave boy may not be susceptible to a beauty trap, he (FFB) is (LOL), and suggests she gives him a hug (maybe he was envious that the boy was almost hugged by XY).
Fed-up with FFB, XY is petulant as they walk outside. To appease her FFB begs to tell her what he said to the slave.
XY : “Okay, how are you going to beg me?”
He pulls her closer : “I will hug you. I’m willing to throw myself at you.”
She gets worried and pushes him away : “FFB are you making fun of me.”
XY : “Are you going to tell me? If not I will really be angry.”
FFB : “Fine I’ll tell you.”
FFB says that he told the boy, he’d once been a slave in the arena too and had survived. At first XY does not believe that FFB told the truth but he says he used a language of the demon saves in the arena. XY knows that even the slave owners cannot understand that language. “How do you know it?”
FFB : “Maybe I was really a slave in the arena.”
XY looks at him with new eyes and asks again who he is.
FFB laughs : “Who do you hope I am?”
XY puts one hand over his heart, and the other over her own, and notes that their hearts beat at the same pace.
They stand in the street with her hands on their hearts and that’s the time Jing passes by with Yiying. Yiying stops to say high to her 2nd Brother. Of course XY is cold towards Jing, since this comes at a time when she’s angry with Jing and worse, she finds that Yiying is with him. It seems that what she suspected is true ie he’s been neglecting XY for Yiying. Jing of course is upset to see that XY is close enough to FFB to be touching him.
Jing gets introduced to FFB and offers him a place to stay in the Tushan’s residence at Zhi Yi. Loathed to let XY continue alone with FFB, Jing offers them a ride but XY rejects it and takes FFB’s arm (to provoke Jing) and walks off with FFB. FFB is amused. He knows XY is using him to poke Jing.
Well, @Kate, we were saying before that there were no indications that XL intended to confess to XY if only she’d been more receptive to a kiss. Here we see that as the playboy FFB, it could be that XL was putting on a show, or it was XL showing the side of him he’d hidden all along, ie the side that wanted to have a relationship with XY and was testing the waters with her, playing more mind-games even, to see if she wanted him to be XL.
(To be continued…)
Hi @GB,
Just starting the working day – so I won’t rush responding to you now. I’ll read and comment this evening.
Looking forward! Hope you had a good weekend,
Hello @Kate, I had trouble getting my last comments to be posted, but it seems that they are posted now. I’ll just check and see if I can continue with what I was putting together.
I’m loving these comments about what is one of my favourite sequences – the XY-FFB meetings.
I’ll wait until you are finished posting @GB! NO rush. We have all the time in the world… or at least a year!
EPISODE 23
(Continuation of FFB/XL and XY Flirting?)
FANGFENG BEI’S ‘PROPOSAL’ TO XY
XY tells CX that’s she’s going to practise archery with FFB.
CX reminds her: “FFB is a renowned playboy. He knows how to indulge in pleasures. I’m okay if you hang out with him, but don’t forget the Fangfeng Family has sided with uncles. When you’re with him, don’t let your guard down and put yourself in danger.”
XY : “Don’t worry, I won’t forget that he pointed an arrow at us.”
This last thought, together with XY’s anger with Jing who’d turned up with Yiying bothers XY.
FFB watches XY shooting arrows and notes that she is very angry. She aims an arrow at him.
XY : “Who are you?”
FFB : “I live in my future brother-in-law’s house, I see my sister every day. Who do you think I could be if not FFB.”
XY : “If I find out that you lied to me, I’ll shoot an arrow into your heart.”
FFB : “So who do you hope I am? The friend you want to poison?”
She shoots to miss and the arrow goes past close to his ear.
FFB : “Good, I did teach you well.”…”You seem in a bad mood. Why not skip practice today.”
She refuses. He helps her to adjust how she holds her shoulders, and to relax: she hits the target.
He looks at the raw skin on her right hand, and notes that she’s unlike a princess. She says she’s a wild princess.
He becomes serious : “Why not quit being a princess and wander around with me?” He looks at her.
(I note the intent look in his eyes. He waits for her answer in all seriousness. This is a proposal of sorts to XY, to run away with him? A moment of madness for XL who is never so reckless?)
XY looks at FFB : “Alright if you give up everything, I’ll go with you.” (As usual she challenges, provokes…) He pauses, seeming to actually consider it and then smiles, and looks away with a laugh. It’s a ‘No’.
(So did XL really consider that he might have a chance with XY, especially when she’s angry with Jing? But he had just tried to shoot CX LOL, what was he thinking!)
(To be continued…)
(Continued …)
EPISODE 23
XL IS REJECTED
Jing comes to see XY and is surprised to find that it’s FFB who receives him in XY’s quarters. FFB is very at home there.
XY hears Jing’s voice and comes out to speak with him. She formal and cold and out to hurt Jing. She calls him gege’s friend and Master Qingjiu, and tells him to wait for CX, while she goes out with Bei. (Poor Jing must be cut to the heart).
She goes out chatting informally with ‘Bei,’ but recalls that she’s supposed to meet Jing for CX’s sake. She stops and explains that she has to do something for CX.
XY : “I can’t hang out to play with you today. Can you take a rain check?”
FFB’s face darkens and XY take a step backwards in shock. After FFB leaves, XY touches her neck as if remembering the pain of XL’s bite. Perhaps the expression of anger made him look more menacing and reminded her of XL.
(Conclusion: It is unwise to reject the demon LOL.
Not only does XL hate anyone who may be lying to him, he hates people going back on their word. He did not mind that XY was using him to vex Jing, but he might have minded that she went to Jing instead of continuing with him as promised. He might have been jealous too, but XY cannot feel the love bug reaction unless XL deliberately got the bug to ‘bite’ her too.)
I enjoyed this sequence of events because they spoke of reality rather than stoic gifts and masking of feelings which is XL’s ploy.
You wrote well about all the guys in this show being like teenagers in their unguarded actions and reactions towards XY. Raw teenagers with the whole range of emotions and triggers.
I think we are moved by XL/ FFB because under the various masks there is a human heart, someone who has been hurt, a survivor (the demon gladiatorial contests), someone who has also been loved unconditionally and mourned that loss.
XL looks to love and serve the loved one and he also wants to be loyal to the end to the General. In the midst of all that, the fun aspects of him come out in FFB – he can be less guarded and more in touch with the inner child- inner wild child and also more in touch with his vulnerability.
XL/FFB has the whole range of normal human aspirations under a carefully curated exterior… and it is when we see the raw emotion that we know who we are dealing with.
Just as the most powerful moments in XY’s trajectory are where the raw emotion comes out and we see to the heart of the child-woman.
Personally, @GB – I really hate it when XY is thoughtless towards XL/FFB.
That’s the mark of the way we have been drawn into XL/FFB’s world.
I want to jump into the story and re-write moments and bits of dialogue so that she can show him true appreciation.
Watching XY later – she is not greatly emotionally literate. She’s kind of self-ware but it is shocking at times how ‘thin’ her grasp is of the ‘other’ in her key relationships.
EPISODE 23 FLIRTING
This was such a good sequence- thank you for highlighting it.
IF XY HAD taken FFB up on his offer … FFB is a chancer and gambles and walks the high wire of risk. Could it have been that if XY had said ‘Yes’ – that freer expression of XL would have been given permission to take over?
It feels like XL/FFB has been walking on a knife-edge about the way he wants to be and live. This has been caused by the disturbance that is XY’s clumsy incursion into his life.
I like to think that there is a true open-endedness about these moments with choices being made, periodically.
Otherwise the whole show is too fate-driven and smacking of dull inevitability.
FREE WILL, CHOICES AND CHARACTER
When we have space we should explore the characters and motivations of all our leads @GB. None of them are free simply to choose what would make them happy.
OR if Tong Hua is correct in her evaluation of this story – happiness is, ultimately, about making the choices that are congruent with our values.
Anyway, there are so many points where characters make difficult choices that go against the grain of their emotional wants.
For discussion methinks!
@Kate
Guys as teenagers, XY as a child-woman: taking into account that they live, what? a few thousand years? I truly wonder about their ages in our human years. We hear that XY thinks herself still young and I believe she bemoans the fact that she has so many years to be lovesick or something like that. But how young is she in human years… 20? 30? She’s had a wealth of experience and yet seems immature.
I like how you make sense of why we are moved by XL. He seems much more human and much less demon or serpent most of the time. I’ve practically forgotten that he has fangs and claws. As FFB, he seems so ‘normal’.
Yes, he is conflicted in wanting to be loyal to Chenrong as their demon advisor and loved as a human being under the guise of FFB. I love all the scenes where he can be open and freely himself, and vulnerable.
You’ve got a point there about XY… she seems aware in some ways and so dense in others. Yes, as you say, the words of appreciation she says to others, I felt should have been offered to XL. For instance in Ep 36, she thanks Jing for doing so much for her ‘in the dark/secretly) but XL did so much more.
I always get drawn into the lives of characters who are young and have hard-luck stories and suffer, but overcome evil with good and become better persons over time. I was drawn in immediately by XY and CX as children and now by XL who suffered and survived, and who has a demon nature that he keeps under control, so that his humanity can shine through. I like what you say about him having human aspirations. They are indeed well hidden under an indifferent, playboy attitude. What I want to see is if he would really prefer to be more human overall and for the long-term. With him it’s always difficult… he is a paid assassin on top of being FFB, and under all that, his true form is not human to begin with.
I read something someone sent me about what happened at the end, in the novel. I truly hope the ending in the drama is quite different! Yes to open-endedness and agency rather than fate or lack of choice.
We see that it is the goodness of the characters that may keep them in check against what they would prefer. If they have lack of choice, it is because (so far) they choose to do what is right.
Oh yes, I’d like to tease out what the characters motivations are. Why they choose what they do and what they may really want. For this we’ll have to have recalled more of the middle episodes as well, perhaps.
Yes, a job for later!!
@GB – yes to all of this and when we have drawn breath, further reflection would be great.
Your point about the multiple layers of XL/FFB’s identity is well-made.
I suspect the ending won’t be as different as we would hope in view of the author’s predilection for the bitter-sweet and the melancholy mixed-in with the denouement…but we can HOPE!
ps @GB – for a moody, soulful, nourishing romance with young people whose lives are tough… a bad boy with so many hidden depths and talents and an aloof girl with a tough family … do check out ‘You are Desire’.
It isn’t one for a discussion thread.. but is charming and totally binge-able.
I am in the right mood for it having watched LYF. It may or may not be your cup of tea.
LOL @Kate, thank you for the recommendation. In the aftermath of watching something that engages our emotions and minds so greatly, we need to turn to something easier to digest and less emotionally demanding.
The premise of “You are Desire” sounds like the kind that hooks me.
I’ve found that I have a growing list of shows to watch and will add it to my list. I’m re-watching Ep 39 of LYF now to see what I missed. 🙂
@GB – enjoy!
I will be doing some LYF re-watching too. It really rewards that attention to further detail.