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67 Comments On “Lost You Forever: Eps 31 to 36 Open Thread”
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I’m leaving a post here so that I’ll not miss anyone’s comment!
After a quick watch of Episodes 33 and 34, I can say Show is still so good! The dialogue is excellent. I love the logic and the consistency, so that everything makes sense.
I like the hopeful note and the fact that good people come together. 5 more episodes and then a long wait.
That’s great to hear @GB.
I am watching these episodes tonight.
I am struggling a little with CX’s half truth re XL’s reward… I hate misconceptions if it looks like they may not be clarified…This is early on in Ep 33.
@Kate here’s the dialogue between the cousins.
CX asks XY : “How did XL save you?” All the physicians he had found had said that there was no hope for her.
XY : “I guess it’s related to the poisonous bug I gave him. I was clinging to his vitality to maintain a glimmer of life. Then he must have performed a blood curse to extend my life.”
CX : “I’ll keep my promise to Xiang Liu, and(but) I don’t want him to play tricks.”
XY is surprised : “His rescue of me came with conditions?”
(If I remember correctly, XL had come to save her without conditions. However the condition was set for her return. I presume that CX interpreted it as one and the same ie that if he didn’t agree to the condition, XL wouldn’t let XY go, hence CX would lose XY even if she were alive. But really, there would be no way to keep XY against her wishes, unless XL meant to keep her unconscious forever?!?!
I feel that XL was being opportunistic in getting the mountain peak. He would have saved and let XY go anyway, but he decided to make a deal. Perhaps it was also to live up to his cold-hearted reputation!)
CX : “He’s cold-hearted, (but XY has witnessed XL’s warmth. I hope she remembers that) and he never does anything for nothing. Of course, he wouldn’t save you for no reason.”
(Well… yes… but the reason was that XL cared a great deal for XY and also the Bug would cause him to die along with her, I imagine.)
XY : “What did he ask for?”
CX : “A peak of the Chenrong Mountain.”
XY thinks to herself : “I was worrying about how to repay him for saving my life. I didn’t expect this. That’s Xiang Liu with Nine Lives who never loses out on a deal.” She smiles wryly. (However she is not aware that he has given up 1 of his lives for her. He’s now XL with 8 lives).
The other thing that is not mentioned, although she may guess it, is the reason for the request for a piece of land on the mountain. It was not for himself but for the burial of the Chenrong Rebels.
[What I gather is that Chenrong was a strong clan once who rejected the taking over of their land during a war where Xiyan was victor. The rebels under Hong Jiang refused to be ‘ruled’ by the Xiyan King and so lost their home.
Those like Xin Yue’s father, Chenrong Yi appeared to have accepted the rule of Xiyan, and so their families retained their lands and businesses. I’m guessing Chishui Fenglong is a cousin of Xin Yue’s.
In fact from one of the conversations, and the few families that are named, I’m thinking that everyone should be related to the others somewhere in their looooong lineages. They intermarried a lot, with the strong and rich clans marrying into the ‘kings’ families too. Of course, most of the marriages were political.]
@GB – exactly – the motivation for the request was a generous one and spoke again of XL’s concern for his men.
Did CX omit to tell XY about that part of the request on purpose or because he is too much of an ambitious cynic to recognise XL’s motivation?
I thought that XY did see or suspect that XL had lost a life. I must re-watch.
I also can’t quite believe that after all that XY experienced of XL during the time in the pearlescent Clam Base that she could dismiss his actions as transactional!! XY also knows how her actions were misread by Mr Machiavelli CX in the past…Might she question his reading of things… for the guy who saved her life??? In some ways she is admirable and in others she is a complete lightweight!
@GB – I think I am going to struggle more with the plot if this is not clarified. It is too big an omission in XY’s understanding of what happened.
I also suspect that this is a typical plot device of Tong Hua based on my experience of ‘Moon Lovers, Scarlet Heart Ryeo’.
Sigh… I think I am going to have to toughen up dear @GB.
@Kate, in your shoes I believe I’d just get angry with the character LOL. But when I think about how even we, real life people, keep misinterpreting intentions, I guess it’s an allowable plot device? Frustrating as it adds conflict, but acceptable?
Yes…haha! I am currently angry in that case with CX and with XY!
That’s official.
She is an odd mix of heroic and rather silly isn’t she?
Certainly acceptable as plot devices go… but in the context of what is at stake is very difficult for the viewer to accept. It detracts too from the XY Jing relationship for me because I want the situation with XL to be clarified.
Just working this through @GB! LOL
I think this is about the extent of the mismatch between what has actually been given and how it is being received. This is coupled with XY’s flippancy when she makes a quick judgment of XL. She knows how much has been given. In the book she is conscious of what he is doing. The book conveys it better actually.
For me the scale of misunderstanding is unacceptable. This isn’t ‘No she isn’t my girlfriend – she’s my sister’ misunderstanding territory.
The danger is that I will start tuning her out and tuning CX out.
Brief rant over!
Nice quotation from TJC re XL’s fighting style:
#TanJianci: Xiang Liu’s fighting style is like he’s painting a picture/ composing a poem ☘️. I helped in designing Xiang Liu’s fighting style. I hope it to be like a dance — it’s elegant, clean, and agile… Just like he’s swimming under the sea freely 🌊 #LostYouForever
(trns: @afterrnoont/twitter)
Great comment from TJC about Xiang Liu’s fighting style:
https://www.facebook.com/asiandramasC/videos/1308167723439194
Let me know if you can’t get this link. Tan Jianci says:
‘I helped in designing Xiang Liu’s fighting style. I hope it to be like a dance — it’s elegant, clean, and agile… Just like he’s swimming under the sea freely.’
Episodes 35 and 36 were very strong! I agree @GB that this show retains its strength and appeal. This is usually the point where I have a finger on the ff button … but not with this show.
I liked the focus on CX and some of his musings out loud were very telling – especially the one about downplaying what he was going through – just as XY downplays her suffering. That was a dialogue in Episode 35 I think. He was tending to XY following her experience at the home of Tushan Jing (what a family he has!!).
EPISODES 31-36
@Kate, what you say about CX and XY, also has struck me about XL. Do we see a pattern of how he avoids looking like a good guy? He diffuses the need for others to give him thanks. Instead he comes on strong as a cold, demanding, tooth-for-a-tooth kind of person, or rather a fair-and-square deal type. He hides his honour, good intentions and soft heart under a hard mask (literally).
Hence he planned the making of the bow for XY from some 50-60 years prior to its completion. I expected him to present the bow to her to reward her for her good archery, but instead he pretends to not want it and I don’t know how he engineers that the weapon forger appears in XY’s court to give it to her. He knows that the minute she hears that the bow needs blood from the 9-headed demon, she will want to own the bow.
Perhaps it gives him one more opportunity to see XY to give her his blood. I wonder if it will be the last time there is blood exchange between these 2. I gather that XL has sadly decided to say goodbye to her, by not keeping her as an archery disciple by his side. Even their great times ‘playing’ together are couched as fair exchange where time was given by each. I like those times they were together like buddies. It’s a pity that they should cease.
I like what we see of XL in these later episodes. He looks positively human, and in a good way. He can be gentle, his looks are warm and caring, he smiles genuinely and not to put on a show. When he is sad, he only shows his grief when he turns away from XY. When he takes on a task, he bears a greater cost to himself than he ever reveals (how challenging or expensive were the materials for the bow he had forged?). For all the blood he’d demanded of XY, he has given back more than enough of his own vitality, impoverishing himself more (I recall the time in the cave too) than once and over the decades.
The only time he becomes demon-like is when he takes offence and allows his eyes to change. I have not yet rewatched to figure out what it was about XY saying that she’d have liked to have saved him (XL) when he was in the Death/Fight Arena, that angered him. I presume his pride was hurt, or he was upset that she’d heard him speaking about himself when he thought she was unconscious?
Thanks @Kate for the link to Tan Jian Ci speaking about his ‘dance-fighting’ style. That explains why his fights are mersmerising. Yes, I was very taken by how beautiful he looked as he fought. Looking like a painting and like he was dancing was right. He mentions his hair again in that interview. I feel he really worked out the choreography, to make it all look elegantly artistic, dignified and deadly at the same time.
I saw one of those mobile phone videos of him in current attire, doing a brief modern day dance to music. He has the moves. He is known as a dancer (ballroom and latin dance!) and singer as well.
We noted before how our actors bring a richer note of beauty to their moves when they have a dance background. Yang Yang too has dance in his repertoire so I believe his swordfighting scenes will look great! (I know that Wang Yi Bo even with only teen idol dance background, was pretty lovely to watch as well… that was in The Untamed). 🙂
I actually look forward to more fight scenes with XL. There should be another showdown before the end of Season 1? LOL.
@Kate, the other examples of downplaying or rather hiding his own pain, was the way XL sent XY off from the Clam. He sent Chubby instead of seeing her himself, but he was watching her, probably able to be invisible to her. He didn’t want her to see the great regret he had in letting her go, he didn’t want to receive her thanks, but he transformed the 3 teardrops she left for him into a beautiful pearl that I believe he would cherish.
@Kate, I just browsed the Facebook entries and found one that gives a plausible (and likely) explanation to why XL in the Clam asked XY if she would hate him if Jing died. I’ve transcribed the long, long, series of meetings between XL and XL in the Clam but have not organised it into something shorter yet or derived more reveals.
As usual I’ll post it later, in parts. I am looking for more motives and patterns. And how we may predict the way the characters will react later.
@GB I very much what you are noticing and highlighting about XL.
Yes, the bow is a massive undertaking – including the obtaining of the valuable, rare component parts which XL has undertaken. We don’t see him on those particular quests. And then, he engineers a handover that entirely hides his involvement!
I enjoyed the archery lessons – found them rather more romantic and less ‘buddy buddy’. That classic scene where he is standing close to her whispering instructions in her ear… etc etc
I had missed the saving of the 3 teardrops previously after XY left the Clam Clinic!
It would be helpful to get some clarity about the concern that XY would hate XL for all that time in the Clam.
Tan Jianci has spoken about the disadvantages of being a ‘pretty’ actor for getting roles in the past. But he brings XL/FFB so wonderfully to life in this show. He has a great range of facial expression and all the advantages of a trained dancer.
BTW, Deng Wei is also a dancer! I think he is classically trained. ‘He had been learning dance since he was a child. With a solid foundation, he was successfully admitted to the undergraduate of the Dance Drama Department of Central Academy of Drama.’ https://mydramalist.com/people/52211-deng-wei
DW brings some of the stillness to his role that Luo Yunxi, also a trained dancer, brings to his costume characters.
Hi @Kate, I’m in the throes of watching some parts of EP 32-36 to get a clearer idea of a couple of plot movements. But I have to be out again soon, hence will not have time to develop my thoughts.
Yes, I want to figure out what other reason there might be that XL’s saving of XY might make her hate him. I wonder first if his blood might have given her some unwanted demon-like qualities that she is not aware of.
The other time he says: will she be sad if Jing dies, and will she hate him if that happens. The reason here is likely what the commenter in FB guessed ie that keeping her there to heal her, meant that Jing would die, because she was the only one who could save Jing. I do not know if both times he said it, was for the same reason or whether there might be another one that he’s not mentioning. I’m thinking that the first time he mentions it, there is another reason.
I did like all the scenes with XL as Bei as well as 9-headed demon. Yes, his range of expressions is very good. One of the links you posted had videos of how his eyes changed in a scene. Besides doing subtle changes with mostly his eyes, he can look rather human at one moment and flip unpredictably.
Speaking of Deng Wei, he looks rather hot in modern dress. Tushan Jing has to look meek and mild, and relatively wallflower-like, but Deng Wei at photoshoots or just walking around in costume is something else! There was a short video just of his walking ‘posture’ LOL. Yes, it probably comes from his dance background as well.
@GB –
Deng Wei looks hot in modern gear. Agreed. He looks rather monastic to me in costume! Tan Jianci on the other hand looks gorgeous in costume and ok in modern gear – in my HUMBLE opinion.
Please take all the time you need – I am swimming in complex personal admin at the moment in three different areas.
Speaking of dance @GB – this competition made me hoot. Even the trained dancers in LYF looked really silly! They start off teasing Xang Zi about her dance ‘exploits’ and then the dancers demonstrate the routine that the LYF team must perfect and compete with the resident Hello Saturday team. The dance demonstration starts at around 55”.57” – it gets funnier as it goes along!
https://youtu.be/g-Hg1rsyG3E
ps 1.04.38” is when we focus mainly on the LYF team trying to reproduce the dance.
@GB – I have found someone’s explanation of the way gentle FBB turned angry with demon eyes.
If you want it, I can post the link to that FB page or copy and paste it.
In a nutshell – it is part of XL/FBB’s strategy to push XY towards Jing. FBB sees Jing approaching behind XY.
My question – is he being a ‘noble idiot’?
I think the reason for this strategy is because of his lifelong commitment to the Chenrong cause not because he is a demon.
What think ye @GB?
@Kate, I was just about to transcribe that VERY SCENE!!! Here it is and I feel that That explanation is correct.
EPISODE 34 (timestamp 26:10)
XL and XY Tender Moments with a Twist
XL looks on as XY names the boy who has won his freedom after surviving the last fight in his 40 years as a slave, and gives him her winnings to start afresh.
The look on XL’s face: is he touched? Is there a sense of empathy with the boy whose state XL had once shared or an increase in appreciation for XY whom he loves and who becomes dearer for her goodness? He deliberately puts on a nonchalant expression and breaks the mood of nostalgia, or whatever it is, by snapping his fingers before XY’s face and saying they should go.
XY : “When you escaped from the death arena, …” XL stops in his tracks and his expression changes.
XY has a tear falling from her eyes : “…if it was I who saved you, it would have been better.”
XY turns to look at XL : “If I had saved you, I would only let you be Fangfeng Bei, a free Fangfeng Bei.
XL turns to look at XY, eyes gleaming a little from tears of his own.
XY continues : “…owning no one a favour, or gratitude. Bearing no responsibility, morality or duty.”
His eyes soften a moment and there’s a slight smile on his face. He raises a hand as if to touch her face, but he doesn’t.
He looks away and his expression changes again. Perhaps he sees something. He takes a moment and then the cynical smile returns, he laughs to himself while looking off to the distance . He seems to have a conversation with himself because he nods his head a few times. (Yes, perhaps he sees someone coming).
XL : “You want to save me? You’re not worthy.”
XY, eyes brimming with tears is confused by the change. She thinks what she said sounded like criticism of his foster father so she says : “I am not saying Lord Hong Jiang is not good, I just think you were born to be as free as a bird.”
XL suddenly turns on her, with red demon eyes : “Shut up!”
XY springs back in fright. XL moves forward so XY moves backwards and into Jing who is right there in time to stand protectively between XY and XL.
XL changes his eyes back to normal and smiles sarcastically at Jing : “I hear you want to cancel the engagement. Is my sister not good enough for you because you’re the clan leader now?”
Jing is going to defend himself : “Miss Fangfeng is very good…” But XY pulls him away, thinking it a bad idea to prolong time with XL.
We see a whole gamut of expressions on XL’s face as he watches them go. Regret, resignation, a smile of irony? With acceptance? Loneliness, sorrow. He walks alone, looking somehow hunched and diminished, into the darkness. He looks tired and all too human.
= = =
That moment when he looked away and seemed to notice something, is likely the time he saw that Jing was approaching. He had a few seconds to make a decision, and decided that since XY didn’t have feeling for him anyway, he might as well make it even more certain that she’d at least end up with the man she loved. So he scared her into Jing’s arms LOL.
At the back of this is the question he’d asked when they were about to watch the fight in the arena.
(Timestamp 18:37)
XL tells XY : “Tonight is the last night. If he survives tonight he will be free.”
She’s amazed that he could make it for 40 years.
XL : “Just as you did in the Nine-Tailed Fox’s cage. It’s nothing but following your heart, with endless patience, and long waiting, as well as never giving up for a faint hope.”
(If feel that XL is giving a hint about himself and how he has been waiting with a faint hope for XY to look at him differently. However XY takes what he says, as words to give her hope, to wait for Jing to extricate himself from his family ties.)
XY : “What are you talking about?
XL has been looking steadily at XY.
XL : “What do you think I’m talking about?”
I feel he was talking about himself, waiting for her with a glimmer of hope. But seeing Jing approaching, he’d decided to reject even that glimmer. He didn’t want to be pathetic. Possibly he might guess that XY would hold out with hope not for XL but for Jing. What irony that his words would encourage her to wait for Jing instead of for him.
When I first watched the looong scene of XY and XL (I notice from transcribing them that a lot of their scenes are long), my heart already went out to XL. He knew he had no hope with XY, and yet wished to have hope.
His song, “The Waiting That Can’t Be Waited For” or “Waiting in Vain?” plays in the background, to underline his feelings. The title of this show, Lost You Forever is likely taken from this song, and of course it was given to him to sing it with so much pathos.
Lyrics:
Seaside moonlight shines on my clothes
You laugh, eyes like stars
Lost you forever
Having got the love poisonous bug
Carved in my bones and heart
Waiting for snow
Waiting for destiny’s favour
Waiting for you a lifetime
Yearning surpasses time
Waiting brings no bloom
You never show up
In every corner of this earthly realm
It’s longing. It’s self-pity
The tones of tenderness
It’s muteness. It’s imprisonment
Scenes unfurl within myself
It’s the way back. It’s the way home
Life is like dancing in the snow
It’s loneliness
In every corner of this earthly realm
It’s longing. It’s self-pity
The tones of tenderness
It’s muteness. It’s imprisonment
Scenes unfurl within myself
It’s the way back. It’s the way home
Life is like dancing in the snow
It’s the end.
That’s a really sensitive analysis @GB. Thank you so much. Makes loads of sense.
I can’t add much.
Well, I will add one thing. Tong Hua was interviewed by someone who asked if ‘LYF’ is a tragedy and she said ‘No’ …’ It is a happy ending because in the end everyone gets what they want.’ Or words to that effect.
I’ll find the interview.
Most people who read the book have said that the ending is difficult. I haven’t heard many people writing about it as a happy ending. The concern is that the happiness is very costly.
Now, bearing in mind the likely trajectory of XL, who is being noble and self-sacrificial and NOT allowing anyone to know about what he is doing – something we often critique characters for – what he wants may not be at the level of his own personal happiness but a noble desire for someone else… Does that make it a happy ending? I don’t see happiness written across his face.
I think my earlier frustration must be with the writer and the way she is setting things up.
Isn’t it interesting that XL and XY get long chunks of time together @GB!
Thank you for transcribing.
He has the present with her but we are not anticipating a long future.
That song is so wistful…
I am not sure I can connect this song with Tong Hua’s claimed happy ending.
THE PROBLEM WITH MANY LOVES CO-EXISTING
@GB I think that Tong Hua’s rather too neat trajectory for XL is because she can’t handle the tension of too many suitors for XY.
Is it the ultimate fulfilment of XL’s love that he must do the sacrificial thing?
In the context of the twin poison but plot device – possibly yes! There is an inexorable journey towards the fulfilment of that love or the severing of that connection.
Tong Hua talks about a happy ending but has deus ex machinad a way for one of our characters to be in love – she is the one and only for me – but not in direct pursuit of XY.
@Kate, thanks for the info about the ending. I rather expect that it will be happy in a sad way LOL. Yes, as you describe it, a happiness that is costly, maybe that was too dearly bought and so surpassed the worth of having?
XL’s letting go of XY and pushing XY to Jing is consistent with how he released her from the Clam in time to save Jing, when it might have been possible to prolong her time in the Clam until Jing died.
He had also stopped the archery lessons, so that he had no more excuse to keep seeing her regularly.
So seen in this light, XL’s leaving her with Jing makes sense.
Off to see the funny link you left above. It looks like the subbed episodes are not coming out tonight.
Enjoy @GB! I keep laughing at it.
Here is the reference to Tong Hua’s thoughts about LYF – Marcus mentioned it briefly on his show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-o2bV5hGnk
@Kate, I’ve finally watched the YouTube videos whose links you posted. LOL. Yes the ‘Hello Saturday 20230708’ episode was hilarious. I think I annoyed my fellow occupants of the study by hooting with laughter many times.
I found Tan Jian Ci so much more approachable as himself, while Deng Wei is reserved. I found that Jian Ci is a regular member on the TV show so he’s comfortable on the stage. Perhaps since it was Deng Wei’s first appearance on a live TV show, he didn’t know what to expect? He was probably just observing and learning on the job.
The others, even Hong Yi who’s new to TV shows, looked more relaxed and at home on stage and I really enjoyed seeing our ‘Dongfang Qing Cang’ (Dylan Wang He Di) playing his role on the show with so much energy. All we needed was the DFQC Voice Actor’s voice. LOL.
I’m bringing together 2 scenes from different episodes to suggest a link that I’m guessing will have significance for the future (probably Season 2???).
EPISODE 35 (Timestamp 39:07)
Summary Recap of the almost 5 Minute-long scene where XY meets XL to ask for his blood. They meet out in the field somewhere alone as usual. The surrounding are in muted colour… covered in frost and from some angles look like a painting.
XY comes wearing a nice deep red (ruby-coloured?) outfit for a change, which I really like. He accepts the spirit herbs, spiritual medicine, and the fine poisons XY offers him.
He recognizes the bow made by Jintian Xingchen at once of course.
XL looks at it with a knowing smile : “Not bad.”
XY : “But I haven’t tamed it, so it’s only unleashing 20 percent of its potential. I need three drops of blood from you to claim the weapon. May I have them?”
XL : “Why would I help you for no reason at all?”
She thinks but can’t up with a reason, and is quiet. XL smiles to himself.
XL : “I taught you archery so that you won’t ask for favours. If you want something, get it for yourself.”
He transforms drops of blood from his finger into a red bird and indicates that she should shoot it. She does so as he looks at her approvingly.
The red bird spirals down in flight and unexpectedly pecks her hand so that a drop of her blood is released. Their drops of blood merge, enter the bow, and the bow is sealed in her left wrist.
I wonder if this is significant. Not only have they had literally exchanged blood by ingestion or spirit transfusion, now their blood has merged in the bow that is sealed in XY.
XY and XY have shared a great deal more than any others, in the exchange of blood [I hesitate to say bodily fluids LOL]. They still share the couple love bugs. XL even took in toxins that would have killed XY after he gave her his blood/spirit vitality. After so much give and take between them, perhaps they are more similar than different. Moreover, XY may also have half demon blood in her if Chi Chen is her father. I won’t be surprised if in future she manifests a great deal of demon power.
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
[I insert here excerpts of the Scene (Timestamp 2:38) from Episode 32 when XY is unconscious and being treated by XL in the Clam.
XL gives XY more of his blood/spirit and XY notes that her divine consciousness is getting stronger. XL also takes away the toxins from her into himself and coughs, looking a bit unwell.
XL : “XY, when you wake up, I hope you won’t hate me.” (She does not wonder why he says that, but I do. Something will be different when she wakes up?)
Later on in Episode 32 (Timestamp 21:00) XL points out the fish demon that swims by them .
“That’s a fish demon. Its fish core should be better than your purple one. But you won’t need that thing in the future.” (I can’t remember what the fish core is good for, but possibly it’s of benefit to humans/deities.)
Spirit XY asks : “Why won’t I need that anymore?” But XL cannot hear her.
When they hear the merfolk singing their courting song, XL says that it’s a song that can’t be heard by deities and mortals but: “Perhaps after you wake up, you can hear it.”
Spirit XY : “Why will I be able to hear it?”
(I think getting the treatment from XL has changed XY is some way but he’s not telling what it is. If deities and mortals cannot hear the merfolk but he and she can, maybe only demons can? Maybe by her intimate connection and the gift of XL’s spirit, XY will have the abilities of a demon, including not needing the properties of the fish core?)]
BACK TO EPISODE 35
(Timestamp 41:10)
She thanks XL for letting her have his blood.
XL teases : “Just with words? You took my blood. Shouldn’t you pay back with your blood.”
XY happily offers him her right wrist to suck blood from LOL. What a blood-sucky relationship!!!
XL : “Keep it for now. Don’t renege on that.”
XY : “I dare not.”
Hearing that her arrows are going to be tipped with deadly poison, and that she’s going to shoot to kill, XL prepares to say goodbye. He tells her that she’s mastered archery. He nods again but looks serious, and a little sad.
OST that plays is of course Waiting in Vain
XL looks resolute : “With low spirit power, this is the best you can do with archery. “
He hesitates a moment, regret passes across his expression : “In the future, you don’t have to learn from me. … Why? Are you reluctant to leave your master?”
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
She thanks him formally, as a student thanks a master, but as usual he dismisses his generosity. He returns to his normal transactional tone : “It’s the Fangfeng family’s exclusive skill. I don’t mind teaching you. I’ve told you before. I teach you archery. You play with me. The only thing I lose is time. And you pay back with time. It’s a fair trade.”
(I believe XY will be chagrined to one day to find out that the fair trade he speaks of is false and that she was not aware of it ie, it has actually been a lopsided affair, with XL as the one who gave more many times.
I agree that XL’s love is the self-sacrificial kind indeed. It’s closer to agape and pragma than to eros, or rather he suppresses the eros because he knows she does not regard him as a candidate for ‘lover’, hence he will never let XY find out what he has done for her so that she will not be discomfited.)
He has put on such a good show that XY thinks he’s been calculating : “You’ve calculated it so well to not lose anything.”
We get an aerial view of them with XL approaching XY to tease : “Did you want to take advantage of me?”
XY huffs : “You have nine heads. I can’t take advantage of you. I’m happy with a fair trade.”
XL “Good for you.”
He takes his leave. The camera trains on his face as he walks away and we can see the regret amidst the lyrics of the OST on the screen.
[Lyrics:
It’s loneliness
In every corner of this earthly realm
It’s longing. It’s self-pity.
The tones of tenderness
It’s muteness. It’s imprisonment.
Scenes unfurl within myself
He turns a bit as if to look at her again but does not turn all the way around, while she walks away.
It’s the way back. It’s the way home (As if she is the way home if he were to turn back).
Life is like dancing in the snow They look like they are walking in a Chinese painting with their surrounding in muted colour, covered in pale frost.
[End Timestamp 44:00]
I forget in which scene it is, but there was a time we find XY listing the men in her life and how they abandoned her:
Her grandfather,
her father,
her brother-cousin.
Even Jing.
They all had their reasons why they could not fetch her, look for her, or be with her when she needed them. By the end of Episode 36, only Xiang Liu had not abandoned her, but since she never saw him as family or lover, it never occurred to her. 😞😖🤨🧐😜
The Love of XL
Thinking about the 3 different men in XY’s life…
We know of course that Jing and XY had a mutual romantic attraction for each other, but at the same time, XY was prepared for heartbreak at any time.
CX like XL acted in what he felt was the best interests of XY, putting her happiness first. However CX’s love was more STORGE, brotherly love and likely to be over-indulgent at times. He also needed XY or they needed each other as siblings with a shared history.
One more thing about XL’s love. Unlike Jing (with XY) and A Nian (with CX) who could not let go, XL had a better will power/self-discipline and was willing to let XY go over and over again.
He didn’t wait until there was no choice but to let go, instead he did it intentionally before he needed to. I’m guessing that the reason was so that XY would have one less person to bother about. When he was present, there would be tension between him and CX, and between him and Jing … and XY would be in a difficult position of having to choose sides from time to time.
He removed that source of tension by taking himself out of her orbit, while presumably hanging about near enough to come when she needed him. Anyway, whether she knew it or not, the poisonous love bug would inform him if she got hurt.
I feel that because XL repeatedly put XY’s good before his own, without any expectation of reciprocity, or reward, that his was a truer love.
@Kate
EPISODES 31-36
You said earlier, even before Episode 35…
What are the alternatives for handling too many suitors?
Girl likes X as a brother,
Y as a lover and
Z as a confidant.
X, we assume will just accept whom XY chooses, who won’t hurt XY and as long as she’s happy. (But would he accept XL?)
Between Y and Z, either Y dies or marries someone else to make way for Z (this starts to look likely) and is interesting.
Or Y gets the girl and all’s well but boring. This kind of neat ending, is not likely.
As for Z, either he disappears to make way for Y, or kills Y and hopes that without Y in the picture, he has a better chance with the Girl. Should he do the latter, Viewers won’t want him to be with the Girl. So we’re left with the former action, ie Z disappears. I guess Tong Hua will go with this.
As I said before, so much depends on the girl’s choice. More than once, CX asked her how she would choose and she indicated that he would take priority. We know that even if Jing died, there’s no guarantee that XY would want XL.
Even if she accepted XL as the replacement of Jing, CX if he were to know that FFB is XL, would be unlikely to let her go to his mortal enemy, and to a demon, at that. XL is still a wanted man in Xiyan, I believe.
But would XL really want to be just the replacement for Jing? Would he be willing to accept that he was second choice?
I’m wondering when the issue of the poisonous love bugs will emerge. Will there come a time when XY will discover that she almost kills XL because she gets critically injured? I guess that’s why he looked so pale and sick when he was caring for her in the Clam. Not only was he giving her his spirit, but he was affected by her injuries.
Regardless of how XY ends up, XL will probably need to be near to keep her from dying prematurely since he will die along with her!
@GB – so glad you enjoyed the show! I agree on all points.
I have re-watched the dance competition around 5 times. It is so funny. I was in the same position as you at 1 am in the morning in a building which is not fabulously sound proofed… trying to stifle the giggles.
Yes, it would be great indeed to have Dylan Wang + his LBFD voice! He’s a comedian isn’t he?
@GB – I will be responding to the great discussion points in your posts (above) this evening.
Looking forward to further teasing this out.
I need to find a post on an FB page about the show where someone was referencing – she said – the views of Tong Hua. The argument here was that XL was actually XY’s favourite – but not the person XY would choose to be there for her because her perception is that Jing is the one who can do that for her.
I’ll try and find it later today.
Ok – I am posting this, while I can find it, to add to our discussion, before I respond to your comments and analysis @GB.
SPOILERISH – I say ISH because we don’t know the ending.
AsiaDramaCelebs on FB has been doing a lot of reflecting about XL so here are her comments based on comments by Tan Jian Ci in an interview and drawing on what Tong Hua is supposed to have said:
‘interviewer: How do you personally interpret Xiang Liu’s emotional stance towards Xiao Yao?
#TanJianci: “I believe the audience’s interpretation has been quite accurate. His feelings for Xiao Yao are simply unspeakable love—restrained and controlled. Xiang Liu knows he has no way to be with Xiao Yao. Moreover, what I find more intriguing is that as a demon, he has never experienced love from childhood to adulthood; he has never been loved, nor has he loved anyone else. He has only known being beaten, killed, and killing others. Therefore, his emotional world is relatively singular.
However, whenever he encounters XY, he is actually slowly learning to experience love. This includes how Hong Jiang saved Xiang Liu, and he is willing to spend his whole life repaying the kindness. So, his feelings towards XY are similar. His charm lies in the idea that if you help me once, I’ll dedicate my entire life to repaying you.”
–
In the end, TJC said XL’s charm lies in the idea that if someone helps him once, he’ll dedicate his entire life to repaying them. The only reason why XL can’t be with XY is that he has already pledged to his savior (General of Chenrong, Hong Jiang) that he will die for him and live for him, even before meeting XY.
The weight of responsibilities that he carries is far from ordinary. He doesn’t represent only one clan, one family, or one single group of people but represents the entire Chenrong nation: their dignity, honor, self-respect for themselves and their motherland, as well as the bravery and history of their ancestors. We’re aware that Chenrong is under Xiyan’s control, as they lost the battle long ago. Despite knowing that they are already at the end of their rope, Chenrong’s people persist in their fight, adamantly refusing to surrender, until their final breath, protecting their homeland & dignity. At this moment, they hold only one aspiration: to perish for Chenrong and live for Chenrong.
For XL, things were simple unless he met XY. Now, Two divergent paths lie ahead of him. One is love, the other is responsibility, and he must make a choice. Will he forsake his responsibilities for love, or give up XY? TJC has already shared that XL is someone who will dedicate his entire life in gratitude for even a single act of help. He has already vowed to his savior once that he will devote his entire life to him, to both living and dying for him.
So, The answer is already clear about what he will choose. But letting go of XY doesn’t mean he loves her less. We can’t even imagine the extent of dedication, determination, and selflessness in his love for XY. I’m certain that in the upcoming episodes, he’s going to make numerous sacrifices for XY that will deeply move your heart.
Also, Do you remember the moment when XY once said to XL, ‘I’m powerless to protect myself, with nowhere to go and no one to rely on’?” This time, Fang Feng Bei is there to make sure that she can protect herself, have a place to go, and someone to lean on (even if it’s not with him). The reason he intentionally asked her to observe his archery skills was to teach her so she can protect herself from any danger.
Also, Those audiences who are saying XY ends up with Jing because she only loves him. Well, yes, she loves him. But if you observe the relationship between XL and XY closely, it might not be as simple as you think. While it appears that she is indeed in love with Jing, it doesn’t specifically indicate that she is not in love with XL. The dynamics between her and XL, as well as their conversations, and interactions, might puzzle you. On the surface, XY might appear apprehensive of XL, yet beneath that exterior, she seems to be more authentic and at ease with him. Also, Tong Hua, the author of the novel ‘Lost You Forever’ (who is also the scriptwriter of this drama), has also revealed that among the three guys, XL is XY’s favorite.
#LostYouForever
https://www.facebook.com/asiandramasC
@GB I already disagree on one point made by TJC – we know about XL’s mum, but here it is anyway. I also question the accuracy of final point. TH has said that XL is her, the author’s, favourite. I am not sure I have read anywhere else that XL is XY’s favourite according to TH.
Hi @Kate, thanks very much. That’s a lot of food for thought. I forgot that as a demon serpent, hatched from an egg (he claims) he would not know the love of parents. No wonder he ran from his foster father who saved him.
Did Tan Jian Ci mentioned XL’s mother? I didn’t see that in the post.
Aah what AsiaDramaCelebs says about the weight of responsibility that he bears really tugs at the heartstrings. He’s single-minded dedication is in some way not entirely human-like (because humans betray each other) and because he was not much in any human community, except when he was enslaved, but it was more instinctual, I feel … like a wild animal who has been brought up gently from young, and who continues to be nice to the person who once took care of it, even after it had been sent back into the wild.
He probably learnt to interpret his faithfulness to the ones who were good to him as love, only after he’d lived several hundred years.
I like the idea that he took it upon himself to help her help herself, and to have someone to depend on. It’s entirely plausible.
In my notes, I applauded XY for being a heroine, who despite losing her powers, is still determined to find ways to protect herself and her loved ones. She was so unlike A Nian who wanted to remain protected (well A Nian had not been allowed to experience taking care of herself). Seeing this and knowing that XY was prepared to shoot to kill, XL was able to let her go, albeit reluctantly.
In this he was not too different from XY’s own father who let CX go on the path that he had chosen. The mentors let go and let the mentees make their own way, risking life and limb, but that’s the only way to live freely.
Hi @GB – TJC didn’t mention XL/FBB’s mother and she was the one who taught him about unconditional love.
Perhaps TJC was only referencing XL’s life as a demon not as FBB.
Back later today to comment more fully!
ps @GB – off topic… bu chance, I have been offered the prospect of a work trip to Singapore this morning… but knowing the way things work, we would be in and out and not have time to visit.
Am a bit stressed about this offer because it is not really my area of responsibility and I am already super stretched with my main responsibilities. Two people are unable to do the trip at the moment.
I am praying for wisdom!
Hi @Kate, I’ve PMed you on Slack. 🙂
Come to think of it, @Kate, I forgot about FFB’s mother. Yes, that mother did show XL unconditional love. So he did have an experience of it, and knew what love was like.
The other part of AsiaDramaCelebs’ post about how XY is more herself with XL … well I feel we relate a bit differently with different people. We may show different sides of ourselves to different people.
XY is probably quite herself with each of the men, some are more playful with her and she will respond accordingly.
It was funny seeing her deliberately provoking XL at the casino by barking at him. He tried to distance himself from her LOL. It must have been a first for him though, having a woman teasing him so freely.
Dear fellow LYFer (!),
Responding to your comment directly above this one.
THE TENDERISING OF XL
XL/FFB’s description of his adoptive mother and caring for her and learning from her what unconditional love looked like – came so out of the blue that I am not surprised you forgot about it. It was hard to compute based on the information we already had. I felt we had almost transitioned into a sub-plot of another story ark – was it a dream??!!
Such an important shaper of XL – taking on the FBB identity and being taken into a loving home.
XL has also been shaped by his comradely relationship with General (what’s his name?).
He is also being shaped by his relationship with XY. To what extent the bugs are enhancing or influencing that is not clear. He had to have affection/love for XY in order to receive a bug in the first place.
XY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH XL
Good point. It is difficult to say which relationship shows XY at her most genuine. Her behaviour shifts from abject confession of existential pain to flippant and girlish and avoiding the point with XY. The depths of her suffering have been best expressed when with CX and encountering her Mum-lookalike. Jing brings out another aspect of XY – cute and vulnerable but also protective of him.
Yes, XY loves to push XL’s buttons! It is funny.
Hello again @GB,
According to a quotation from Tong Hua on AsiaDramaCelebs – it is that vocation to be responsible for and suffer with the Chenrong army that we cannot describe XL as unhappy, ultimately.
Do you remember that scene where four of our characters dance together (XY, Jing, Fenglong and Xinyue (spelling??) and at the same time we see XL leading his troops into a battle in the darkened streets of I don’t know where. You may have already commented on this – I am working through your posts from the most recent backwards.
The show is telling us that, fundamentally, XL’s primary identity is that one not his FFB identity.
* it is due to that vocation*
Commenting on your comments @GB from 1.18 pm
I liked the deep red outfit too for FFB.
Great write up of that scene whole concerning the activation of the special bow @GB – the co-mingling of XY’s and XL’s blood together with your anticipation of more sharing by XY of aspects of XL’s heritage…
They have indeed, as you highlight, shared of one another more profoundly than is the case with any other characters. He has shared a life with her too.
Commenting on your comments from 1.21 am
I am intrigued by the possibility you mention that XY has been changed as a result of her time in the Clam and all of XL’s ministration to her!
The point about being able to hear the Merfolk sing makes sense in that context.
Good! It was not for naught. It means more has been given and created in that time than another chance at life.
You then focus on the conversation at the end of this exchange:
‘Why, are you reluctant to leave your Master?’… gulp.
Are you reminded at all here of Jane Eyre? Rochester couldn’t marry her technically and was playing all sorts of mind games with her to get her to reveal her true feelings.
Your comments from 1.33 am
Oh my …your last point!! Gulp. Absolutely, the one who never abandoned her was XL and she couldn’t or wasn’t permitted to see it.
Your comments from 2.12 AM THE LOVE OF XL
You foreshadowed this argument @GB when you described XL simply leaving XY, at her request, when he came to rescue her from CX’s forces.
Jing loves her, unconditionally but not unconditionally, because he needs her and needs her to wait for him.
I agree re CX’s love being more storge – although what are we seeing at the moment? More hints of eros?? – who manages to release her from time to time but is not someone without agendas and is capable of manipulation.
In terms of the biggest picture, XL is, arguably, the biggest actor in the narrative in terms of the role he plays for XY from Qing Shui Town onwards.
Where would the story be if XL hadn’t been involved? He influences the whole backdrop of her life.
My Dear @Kate, thank you for taking the time to respond to my numerous comments LOL. I’ll respond where I can but in a different order. Heheheh!
I was surprised even before that… ie the first time I heard XL say that he had a foster father. But of course, if he’d been without home entirely, it would have been impossible for him to have his role with the Chenrong, his beautiful clothes etc. What made me laugh out loud was when he went to XY (when she was Wen Xiao Liu) to get her to ask Jing for a favour. She said he could have gone directly to buy herbs from Jing, but he said he had no money. LOL. I couldn’t believe something as mundane as money was needed by a demon. Again I was so taken by his demon, blood-sucking persona, that I forgot he was also a regular person. In the beginning we never saw him eat even, just drink and mostly blood LOL.
You were asking about the name of a general? I’m not sure about Generals but XL was saved by Lord Hong Jiang, of the former Chenrong Kingdom.
The name of a General was mentioned by CX. He sent and received a missive from General Xinglong about the rumours of XY’s birth.
Yes, this is a good point. We can see that he responds differently to her, but I never considered that the bugs might have anything to do with it. The great thing now (if there’s time!!) is to watch the very early episodes and compare XL then with XL now and see if anything is strikingly different.
Yes I do, and thank you for putting XL’s battle into perspective. I found it jarring… why the fun of XY and friends was juxtaposed by XL fighting. I thought after that, we would see XL appearing near XY to get more blood for healing fresh wounds, but we didn’t. I was confused.
Yes, you’re right, the juxtaposition was to point out where the ‘true vocation’ and ‘identity of XL’ lay. Hence if we’d paid attention to that, and interpreted it correctly, we would/should not be surprised at XL’s choices.
The element of struggle is the catnip. XL will struggle with his vocation because his heart may not be in it as much as before XY came into his life. (As for the struggle – look forward to Episode 37!)
(To be continued after breakfast!…)
(Continued …)
@Kate
There is so much intermingling of his life with hers, we cannot tell which element has the greater sway in making her what she becomes. I believe his sacrificed life may have an even greater impact. I’m anticipating more things that she’ll be able to do even with her low spirit power.
With blood co-mingling, it reminds me of how men become sworn blood brothers. Perhaps XL becomes the brother XY never knew she had! LOL.
Why yes! One of those stories I’ve re-read and thought a great, passionate romance. Let’s see, we do find that in that boat-ride date, XL did try to get into the mind of XY. I rather think he expected her to vent her frustrations about the demon friend she had, but instead she praised him seriously as being very good. He was taken aback.
The only mind game he plays at the close of the archery master-pupil relationship is the one where he bluffs her that it’s all in the name of fair exchange.
That’s true, XL changes XY’s trajectory. She could not continue her obscure, hidden life as a male physician in Qingshui Town once XL forced her to become his personal physician. Since XL needed her medicines (and she delighted in trying to poison him) it might have been just a mutually beneficial partnership of sorts, except that she provoked him into reminding her that he was not her buddy, but a fanged serpent demon who could be a blood sucker. LOL
This together with the political/military tensions with CX looking for his lost sister, while trying to kill XL took over the narrative in the first half. Having found XY, the sibling relationship and CX’s struggle for power gets more focus.
As to influencing the backdrop to XY’s life, that became inevitable when she became his sworn ‘person’ and especially after he accepted the love bug. I feel that XY’s years as a physician and a ‘man’ had greater influence over her decisions as Princess. The other most influential person was of course CX, for whom she reclaimed her identity and position, and whose travails she is determined to share. However I’d like to continue to believe that having a demon life and demon spirit has given XL an added influence in XY’s life that she’s not even aware of.
The 3 main characters really are XY with CX and XL. Jing was important as foil for both XL and CX, and a great help to promote the momentum of the others, but his sad predicament seems like a bigger side story, rather than the main plot. I’m glad though, to still see him in the last episodes. 🙂
@GB – great to have all these reflections back!
I’m just off for a walk now – rain permitting.
Brief responses to an enjoyable morning read!
I had forgotten about the foster father. I need to go back and get more details.
Yes, to the humanizing quality of not having enough cash on you! And all the social embarrassment that caused for FFB with XY being insensitive to his plight as provider male in that sequence of episodes.
XL as the brother XY never had… hmmmmm. That’s an interesting thought. One, I suspect, we will have to enjoy here on BoD but why not? Especially when we see CX’s trajectory…
Your comment about XL and CX as the two main male leads resonates with what I read elsewhere. I can’t remember who the commentator was. But he or she said exactly that. They are the two main movers. Jing is a side plot. Now, of course, Jing does make moves and we don’t get to hear much of his great business acumen and massive intelligence, do we? So again, because of portrayal in the show, Jing is almost the love object rather than the love actor.
I was so tempted to watch Episode 37 without subs last night @GB… went sleuthing around… but I am going to hang on because my passive Chinese boils down to about 10 phrases!! LOL. I sometimes stand in the kitchen testing myself and trying to remember which words are Chinese and which are Korean. I try to pronounce ‘Sorry’ on both languages and wonder if I would be understood by a native speaker.
Enjoy your weekend!
@Kate you made me laugh this dull and cloudy afternoon of mine. It was raining earlier but while the rain has stopped the sky is still not clear.
Oh dear yes there were not 1 but 2 instances where our poor FFB was embarrassed for want of cash/gold. Once when he was XL and needed meds for the rebels and another time when he wanted to pay for the weapon that XY wanted to buy. LOL very humanising. Even XY had that embarrassment before when she forgot her money bag to pay for snacks and Shi Qi/Jing appeared to offer money.
If ever we meet up, we’ll check on whether we’re saying thank you in Chinese or Korean LOLOL. 🤔🤭🤫😬😂🤣
I take encouragement from this at least – you probably know this already @GB!
How similar are Chinese and Korean languages?
Polyglot Learning: Similar Words in Chinese and Korean
The Korean language is much more related to Chinese than one might think. Korean is also very closely related to Japanese, probably even more than Chinese, but Chinese words actually make up about 60% of the Korean vocabulary, though in actual speech (especially informally) native Korean words are more common.
https://lindagoeseast.com/2014/09/29/polyglot-learning-similar-words-in-chinese-and-korean/#:~:text=The%20Korean%20language%20is%20much,Korean%20words%20are%20more%20common.
29 Sept 2014
Hi @Kate, I decided to put this here instead of under the earlier thread, so as to avoid spoilers there. We were thinking about what the fish demon core might be good for and its significance that XY would not need it in the future, in the 18 August post, 1:21am.
EPISODES 20 – 23
INFORMATION ON THE FISH CORE
We find out the value of Fish Demon core. It can be used to make jewelry, accessories, tools and as a medicinal ingredient. High-quality fish core can help with breathing. It can make a person stay longer underwater.
By the end of episode 23, we find that the main reason it’s great for non-demons is that it enables a person to swim underwater for days without drowning. Hence we understand now how demon XL could practically live underwater.
This seems to be further evidence that at least 1 quality of demons will be gained by XY after receiving much of his demon blood/spirit.
Unfortunately, it’s possibly going to be evidence that points her out to be a daughter of Chichen rather than as one saved by XL. XL’s saving her had been done in secret, hence unless what and who saved her is known, she might be taken for a demon herself, she might be killed for being Chichen’s offspring ‘again’.
@GB – aha!
Loads of food for thought here. I hadn’t worked out what this fish core was about…looks like a tuna steak!
Good idea to put it in this later discussion. I suspect we will see evidence of this in action.
I am going to watch what I assume will be the last episodes of Season 1 on Viki and reflecting on where we have arrived.
I am grateful that there will be a gap now between Season 1 and 2 just to let things simmer down. I hope the gap will be one of months not a year!
@GB and anyone else watching,
The talk is now of Season 2 airing next August!
So we have plenty of time to recover from the intensity of Season 1 and possibly to read the novel – even though the show is not following the novel to a T.
It will be a long wait if this is true. What was that song about waiting? LOL
Hello @Kate! Thank you for the news about Season 2. Well a year does fly by. We’re in August already when I thought that we’d just started the 2nd quarter.
Yes, we may like to sit with Season 1 a little more placidly. Hmm… reading the translation of the novel might be an idea although I’m thinking I’ve spent a prodigious amount of time on this show already!
I’m looking forward to watching the subbed episodes soon!
Yes, @GB, you’ve certainly pulled out the stops for this show!
I like your suggestion that we sit with Season 1 more placidly.
We’ve certainly squeezed a lot of juice out of this show thus far.
I probably will read the novel …when the dust has settled and IF my pent-up takes over…which is likely!
*pent-up curiosity*
EPISODE 33
THE IRONY IN CHOICE OF IDENTITY
An adhoc note on why I like this writing.
As is the case for many good writers, the dilemma and conflict arises out of the choices of the main characters. The same choice that works for one will cause much conflict for another. We see that in what Jing says when he wakes up and hugs XY.
Jing : “XY, I’ve always wanted to be your husband, to be with you openly and honourably. But you are the Princess of Haoling. Only the identity of Tushan Jing is worthy of you. So I’ve been reluctant to give up on this identity with which I can marry you in a proper manner. But I was wrong. I don’t want to be Tushan Jing anymore. Whether I can be with you openly and honourably is not important. Even if I don’t get recognition for a lifetime, even if I’m your servant for a lifetime, it doesn’t matter. I just want to be by your side to protect you.”
(He just wants to selfishly live his life for only 1 purpose ie to protect XY and be with her. I find that so lame, and so not romantic…)
XY had first told XL that she would be happy to be Wen Xiao Liu forever. But when she was reunited with CX and her father, she chose to take up the identity of Princess of Haoling in order to help CX. But this same choice is a double edged sword for Tushan Jing.
At first he foolishly thinks he can give up his identity as Jing to return to be Ye Shi Qi. Even XY is foolish enough to agree that she will accept Jing as a nobody. But CX knows better. CX warns XY that there are ties in the blood that cannot be severed, and becoming nobody is not as simple as they make it sound.
We know the outcome in the end. It was a delusion to think that they could have a choice to go back to being nobody.
Perhaps XY had been too traumatised by her abandonment to ever think straight about the future. Just hanging on to the one who claims he’d never leave her would probably make it impossible for them to retain family ties or to live comfortably for the rest of their lives.
EPISODE 33
JING’S FOOLISH, SELFISH CHOICE COMPARED TO CANG XUAN AND XIANG LIU’S ALTERNATIVES
Another ad hoc thought and why I cannot get behind Jing as end game for XY. He just wants to hold on to her even when it’s not the honourable thing to do. He claims he wants to be with her to protect her, but really, with his diminished powers, what protection can he give her?
If he can get back to playing music well, it seems he can have his powers augmented. But we don’t get to see that happening.
By comparison CX had enough sense to let XY go about while sending people to protect her.
XL had the best idea to teach her how to protect herself. In the end he had to ruefully admit that the disciple had outshone the master.
Based on this example alone, I’d prefer XL overall.
= = =
A BIT MORE ON CONFLICTING IDENTITIES
Adding to my comment above… XY’s identity as protective shield for CX (literally against XL’s arrows) is in direct opposition to her identity as XL’s confidant. The delicious tension of being great friends with the one who would kill one’s brother, and be able to continue in both relationships concurrently over decades or centuries is epic!
Only XY could love and respect both parties, while never seeming to take sides. How lovely it would be if she could mediate an end to the enmity, but of course it would never be so easy, since besides consideration for Chenrong’s rebels, XL was also in the pay of Xiyan’s princes, and there was also that little matter of CX’s jealousy of any other man close to XY.
@GB,
Liking these reflections.
Do you remember the scene where Jing/YS says to XY ‘Wouldn’t it be nice’, in effect, ‘ to stay for ever in this cave?’ I think it was when they were imprisoned by CX before XY’s identity was revealed. XY was fleeing to avoid her royal identity being exposed to the King of Haoling etc etc
I read somewhere that XY and YS work well in a bubble but not in the realities of their actual social positions and struggles. There is a child-like quality to their relationship.
It’s your point again about CX the realist underlining the naivety of the XY-Jing aspiration to be together – despite it all.
Was there ever a point where they could simply have existed under the radar in Qing Shui Town? Their innocent love had a sell-by date because of CX’s arrival in Qing Shui and because of XY’s encounter with XL bringing her bang slap into middle of the XL – CX conflict with all that flowed from that.
I do think, though, that Tong Hua wants us to love YS/Jing more than we do.
I wonder whether – as has been said – the YS/Jing we get doesn’t sparkle or convince on the show. We’ll only know that if we read the book.
Perhaps there will be more substance to Jing in Season 2? Or, alternatively, did we see the best of him as YS?
@Kate, as usual you raise interesting, thought-provoking questions.
I agree that the naive, childlike quality of Jing and XY thinking they could always be together somehow, no matter what happened, is best considered in their own little world, apart from reality.
In actual fact, both of them were/are characters who took their responsibilities quite seriously, who wanted to ensure they harmed no one, and who wanted others to do well too. In other words, they were good people. Their ‘goodness’ would run smack against their child-like self-centredness. There was no way they could be ‘good’ and at the same time get the kind of dream happy ending they spoke of.
Taking XY alone, even separately from Jing … If the body changing weapon in XY could be reactivated and she could change into a different character on the outside so that she could hide her identity, she might have had a chance to live a quiet life, but not for long. Her goodness in wanting to help others in dire need of a physician would ultimately out her. I don’t think she could let people die when she could have helped them with drops of her blood.
That aside, we know that XL would always be able to find her. I don’t think XY can ever hide for long.
So to your question
I’m thinking, no. Not in the past and not in the future either.
As for Jing… unfortunately in the Show, his prowess in business and how he helps CX and Fenglong in a big way cannot be shown dramatically. He did indeed do much that was ‘award-winning’ but which were not the stuff to make for exciting scenes. We only hear of them, on the off-hand, poor Jing.
However the way he’s portrayed as just staring mutely so much, just waiting, just suffering… rubs me the wrong way. When CX is jealous and painfully staring, I don’t get annoyed LOL. When XL is filled with longing and resignation, I feel for him. Poor Jing just annoys me so much.
this is likely true. Not that I can muster the will or time to do so!!
As CX and XY sagely say in a most fatalistic way… in order to not be disappointed, we do not give ourselves hope LOLOL. 😒😤😳😱🤯😓😂
@GB – so enjoyed your reflection here!
I probably will read the book… but after Season 2, so that it doesn’t set up expectations that the tv script then changes. It will help me in my withdrawal after the whole thing is over…haha.
I like what your discussion of goodness and self-focus in YS/Jing and XY … child-like attributes.
Although they both have great strategic smarts too and this shows at critical junctures.
XY is ahead of the game so often.
Perhaps both want to live that simpler, self-focused lifestyle with acts of goodness but avoiding the big issues.
I even remember XY talking in terms of the virtues of the ‘small life’.
Jing is far more determined by XY than she is by him – well, she does have a lot of men paying attention to her doesn’t she? His dependence on her love while he cannot attain closeness… makes him rather a wilted character as Jing.