The thread is open.
How are things going, @GB, @WEnchanteur, @feifei and @salteddust? Are you enjoying the rewatches? Good.
6:30am PST
9:30am EST/Caracas
2.30pm in London
3.30pm in Paris
4.30pm in Athens
9.30pm in Singapore/Malaysia/Hong Kong/PerthDaylight Savings Time ends on Sun, Nov. 5 here in the US.
Enjoy the show!
Thanks my dear @pkml3. Yes we are indeed enjoying the rewatches, reading each other and garnering new thoughts on the show and general knowledge. It’s always a heap of fun doing what we enjoy together. 🥳🥰
Tonight, I have unexpectedly a visitor, therefore I may be late or may not be able to come here in time.
@WE, @FGB, @SD, @FF, @MM in case I’m not back in time, please start without me. I’ll come when I can or I’ll come by to read you later!
I may leave a few comments below based on my own quick rewatch. 😁😇
I like this episode for the new information we get on the time travel logic. We see what happened when BD made changes 300 years ago. (Another good use of split screens to give us the picture and not just the exposition).
Just last episode HJ had no thought on possible repercussions, but this episode she finds that only she in her time, has a recollection of the original events in history.
The other piece of information we get is about the power of the talisman. It has to remain intact or the memories of and the past months’ happenings experienced by BD and HJ get warped/lost/changed as well.
And there’s the delicious conjecture about why it’s only BD and HJ who are affected by the talisman. Could the reason be the ‘kisses’?
Hi @PM3, we are certainly enjoying the rewatches. Thank you for letting us have this space.
@GB, please try to join us tonight or leave your comments prior to the rewatch so that we can read and reply. Enjoy hosting.
Hi, I’ll be here. Clock set.
@pm3: rewatch are not only nice, help me to dig in the script, as I’m a bit too immersed at first watch. But I make progress and detect more things now.
ALCHEMY OF SOUL: I’ve some time and can end the drama, currently at season2 ep3.
I’m reading a bit your threads: it’s good!!
S2: Me too I was happy to get the original Naksu actress from ep1. The other one isn’t enough pretty to make me believe a romance, but was funny as the grumbling servant.
Hi @WE and @FF!!! I made it back!!!! Had to extricate myself somehow and it was fortunate that the final hosting was at another relative’s home. I’ve barely made it back. Actually I’m sleepy (which was the reason I said I should leave early) but if I’m still awake, then I’m here! If you find me silent for some time, I’m probably ZZZzzzz.
Got my fruits and a drink to relax with now. 🙂
HI @GB, good to have you here. Will be starting soon.
@GB Yes she is beginning to have a concept of repercussions of time travel. I am looking forward to discussing the time worn trope that is So cleverly used in this episode!
Hi @GB, @FF, and @WE. I will have to leave early. I scheduled a class at the last minute so will have to leave for that. I meant to start early as well, but oh well, coffee first!
Hi GB FF MM SD. 😉
Hi @FF, @MM, @SD, @WE… let’s start NOW!!!
Hi @MM!
They are so cute behind that menu. Sl ‘ s squirming is right on.
HI @WE, @SD,@MM.
This crazy dude want to kill the queen, main character. Like he doesn’t know how it would be impossible to rewrite the script after that? ^^
I like the neck jerks, clearing of throat, grimaces and heavy sighs of DM. The actor does a good job of subtly conveying annoyance and the way this guy thinks he should be the center of all female attention.
Hui Jin realizes that history has changed but no one else thought that history has changed.
SCENE where Dong Min tells the director that he wants to have Queen In Hyun poisoned to death… This scene will play out again but at a different time after the time warp. So cute… and I only noticed it upon rewatch… it showed that no matter before or after the time warp, Dong Min and the Director were the same.
How the director puts dong min in his place by indirectly calling him a psycho.
Supercool way to make us understand that the Time changed: with a different drama script. 😉
Normally, audience should guess everything now, but anyway, the situation will unfold.
@FF Precisely … For all that HJ is not super smart, she had the sense to figure out that BD had made enough changes in history so that she went back to research the new history. I like the split screen with both past and present screening at the same time.
@SD, sometimes I do find Dong Min childishly cute probably because the actor is so convincing in his role.
Hi all,
Back this week and ready to gain more insights, especially the rules of time travel in this drama. Love the opening of this episode with the flirting behind the menu, and BD’s declaration of intent to “play role of lover” and her confession of loving “corny.”
However, I’ve learned the hard way that in K dramas something as delightful as this scene is often a prelude to doom.😢
@WE That’s the irony… DM is the psycho who wants to change the script by killing the Queen, while BD is the realist who actually changes history which changes the script in order to save the real Queen!!
@WE. I noticed that too. The past changing is foreshadowed with a change in the script.
@GB: YEAH!! I realise now. Dong Min want to change the script, then the script change. He’s not the cause, but it’s a nice CORRELATION.
@GB, ah you kill me. Yeah, use of irony. Some kind of genius to meet all that at once. But it’s the magic of inspired storytelling. 🙂
I like the split screen where Hui JIn talks to Bong Do, sometimes with a third screen of Hui Jin’s manager. The screens move in slowly as if to pace the audience moods.
BD’s long speech that poor HJ does not understand: “The unknown person who shot the arrow with the letter. That person and me, it’s our secret. I must save my own life, but if I change the fate of others, I worry about what will happen next. So with the exception of myself, I try not to change the fate of others as much as possible.”
“It feels like man proposes but God disposes.”
HJ looks as confused as ever even after seeing how history has changed.
Hi @LL, I’m still wondering about the logic of the time travel and why only the leads remember the historical changes.
Hi @LL.
@WE, I only just noticed the irony myself!!! All down to SJJ’s skill of writing in real plus fake history that’s reflected in real script and the show’s script LOL.
@FF I agree. I am really enjoying the actor who plays d m
@LL, hi!
Yes, you are right, if we see happy people first… just wait and be worried, because at one point, the more happy they are, the more they will suffer after.
@FF, when I see the split screens I feel like I need to pause and look at every screen to know what’s going on and the expressions on their faces.
Now we see the disgraced Min Am being paraded through the streets. So cruel of them! LOL.
@GB, it’s why rewatch are importants. And as we are more than one, better chances to spot the subtelities. 😉
@GB, in most of the time travel dramas that I have watched usually only the leads remember the changes.
I like the way you pointed out the contrast between saving the Queen and changing the script to kill the Queen.
@MM The actor who plays DM can be so annoying, so petty and at times mean. But he’s the immature type who does not really do big harm to HJ.
They should create a gesture language because even they are friends since a long time, they are unable to understand each other like that.
Thanks @FF. Just noticed it because of what @WE wrote.
And Oh My!!! our 300 year old BD is driving LOL. He could have accidentally knocked HJ down! He drives by numbers LOL.
Car brake scene with 1 to 10 how to drive.
(well, he couldn’t have a licence because you don’t run into people and brake to make a joke)
In this scene, something is missing I think. It’s the first time he sees her with queen clothes from his era. And I find strange it doesn’t create some feeling.
What boyfriend can top this… willing to do something corny and to sell his sword to get the girl a car!!! Then she calls him thief LOL. Well he does steal clothes all the time.
@WE, well he did see her in queen get up on TV and said he finally understood why she was considered pretty. So perhaps that was enough and he didn’t have to say more to create a feeling. All the ‘feeling’ was inside the car!
His explanation for not having a wallet is so sardonic.
HJ’s so unlike the real queen… so much ungainly getting into the car and leaving her skirt dragging!! He tells her to always have good manners as the queen.
Aack! The time has caught up with me. I have to get to my class (on images in poetry — maybe useful for some future rewatch?)
@GB, @FF I did not catch the contrast between DM’s petulant desire to kill the Queen and the way the Queen survives the assassination attempt until you pointed it out; it went by too quickly. The clear value of a group rewatch.
I will finish the episode when my class is done and may add some additional comments. Otherwise, see you next week.
Flashback: how he sell the sword and buy the car. Here you have proof the writer planified all the drama A to Z, because he says he gets less money than he thought. Then later episode, it will repeat and he will sell it for a better price. So, this line was made (or changed) with prediction of what happens later.
Here we have an insight how it’s complex to write a drama in comparaison to a movie, because it’s 16 episodes but all is planned the same. Ofc, we see that in other dramas, I don’t make a full list. 😉
I think Bong Do has no sense of the value of money in modern time. Sold his family heirloom to buy a car for Hui Jin.
Bong Do is such a sweety, arranging HJ’s skirt for her.
And Hui Jin sadden by the unbelievable time travel story.
Now I also understand what thick skin means in the context of a korean drama
I like how she drives circles around BD for some time … he’s the centre of her life. Then she starts to realise that she doesn’t want to lose him.
So she practically forces him to say that he’s been lying to her, he’s a con man who lives in her time and not a man from 300 years ago.
@GB, my bad, I forgot a moment when he sees her on TV, but now I remember, it was a giant screen on a building.
See you @SD!!!
Episode 8 does much to solidify relationship of the leads. Gift of car and ensuing reactions and emotions of HJ are conveyed by her realization that the relationship would be less problematic if he were a swindler than a person from 300 years past. The scene of her driving in circles around DB shows us he is central to her. Writer then lightens thing up by having HJ tell BD the secondary purpose of cars…kissing! BD decides this is worth the sale of relic😂. Music changes during this scene from ancient to romantic are great too. Very well done.
@FF, HJ is still prepared to date BD after she hands him over to the police and he comes out of jail. Girl has it badly for him.
“Think about it, it’s not easy to meet someone you like. Even if you don’t understand why, you are able to really communicate. Even if the other person is a swindler who deserves to die, it’s still better than someone from another era altogether.”
He plays along that it’s a lie to appease her temporarily.
Hui Jin is such a romantic, willing to date someone even if that someone is a swindler who served time in prison.
Speaking of thick skin @MM, here’s HJ trying to con our BD again about the uses of a car LOL, as if a car was made in order for couples to make out in!
@GB, it’s crazy how each detail can have a symbolic meaning.
And now, KISS.
With fake info: a stopped car is just used to kiss.
Time for him to apply that with a real kiss with the main drama song. 🙂
TONS of CHEESE!!!!!!
Oops my comment got lost. I noticed how the music changed while she was driving in Circles to indicate I think Her realization of what it might be like to lose him to time travel. This may be a stretch but driving in circles is a very dressage move
Is this the first time Bong Do initiate the kiss?
@WE, I like that in this series there’s a repeat of some events so that we can notice and compare, and get more insight.
And true enough, according to HJ’s use of a car, the crew can’t find HJ kissing in the dark car LOL. BD approves the sale of his heirloom Heh!
@GB, expensive kiss isn’t it?
He says he will come back only for her.
What trigger^s…
… The cringy Joseon Music. ^^^^^^^^
@LL, Yes, such an enjoyable car scene! I said the same as you!!
Then the killer sentence… He would come back because his lover is here.
BD : “Do you remember what you asked me before? You asked if our meeting was karma.”
We get a flashback of HJ asking BD if they became lovers, what the end would be. BD in the present says he had not figured it out yet but til then, he would keep looking for her. He actually teases her about the parting greeting LOL.
He claims he will not misunderstand when and with whom she does the parting greeting. – Does that mean he won’t mind seeing her kissing DM on TV? Heh! He’s teasing her about how she conned him about kissing being a normal greeting, because she was the player Hahahah!
@FF, Yes I think that’s the first time he initiated the kiss, but there was also a kiss in the library. Did he initiate one there? Excuse to rewatch!!!
Haahahhah! @WE, I like the cringey Joseon music but now you don’t LOL.
So the happy times are coming to an end soon but HJ is still floating on the cloud of the previous night’s kiss and promise of a date in 1 month’s time.
Quite funny. The scene with the guardian cleaning the street:
We learn the historical drama is on air, but for now, it’s the childhood episodes (what can be as long as 5 episodes in big seaguk).
I laugh at the friend’s expression when HJ told her that BD is someone from 300 years ago.
BD does not know what a date is. LOL
BD manages to fly back to Jejudo and get his clothes!!! They were in Seoul, so he’s really taken on modern life with a vengeance. We assume he returns to Jeju in his time. But the minute he appears, arrows come at him.
@WE, haha we found the cringe music for you. I remember @GB’s cringe music from MOTA, you kept teasing her.
Here comes the cringe music again when BD appears to pick up his clothes.
Unfortunately the assassin cuts the talisman into two and a time warp takes place. What a powerful talisman!! We seem to go backwards to the time he was supposed to be killed in the library and he wakes up under the care of his retainer, Han Dong.
I really wonder what happened in the 10 days he was unconscious and in the 2 months he cannot remember. SJJ makes a strategic move in not really showing us much. We have to guess from the conversations. It’s a good way of not having to write out every detail of the time warp.
@GB. He does initiate a kiss in the library as she is leaving he grabs her If my memory serves me correctly. I took his comments about her kissing As him Teasing her. He knows full well, the meaning of a kiss is not Goodbye to just anybody. Interesting to think about it. Having some unintended meaning that he would not be keen on.
So the confusion here is that his memory is being stabbed in the Hanyang library but he’s found stabbed and wandering around in Jejudo.
@MM thanks… I vaguely remembered the library kiss.
I wonder how far he may figure out that she will have to kiss a whole bunch of men when she acts and not just once but many times LOL. Don’t think he’d be keen on that at all!
It is raining when BD returns to his time, the talisman is sliced into 2 … just when I was wondering if the talisman will disintegrate if wet.
BD is injured, he did not time travel this time because the talisman is damaged?
@FF, I think the wound has to be immediately mortal in order for him to time travel, but at the same time, the talisman was cut.
I think it’s a cloth talisman that can take the rain and blood that’s all over it.
I noticed she brushed her teeth with a whole different attitude than she did after d m’s kiss
Here we are halfway of the drama: W draft, bad use of the high concept (talisman cut) create a reset and a kind of amnesia.
@MM yes, first time she brushed her teeth to get rid of DM’s touch on her lips. This time it was perhaps to relish the memory of BD’s kiss.
And to make it even more a W draft, the time gap lost is also 2 MONTHS. !!!
@WE I also noted the comment about the children in the first few episodes. The children can be wonderful but I have also dropped shows for that reason. Such a humorously placed comment
@WE, yes in ‘W’ wasn’t it the destruction of the tablet? So cut talisman and amnesia and separation was the prelude to how it would be done in ‘W’.
We see how SJJ refines the ideas.
@GB, now, W half is when Kang Chul reset the story to make the killer disapear, end of episode 8. Then he erases all events, make it a dream he forget, and take back his life two month before. But it’s very close, and also half of the drama. 😉
@GB and now BD’s stabbing and memory loss prevent the promised one month meeting and is major impact on HJ as well as BD.
@GB, ah yes the similarity with W: destruction of the tablet!
Ah @WE, I vaguely recall it. Yes, it was very close so we can see the skeleton and some flesh of the idea before ‘W’.
I am thinking what it would be like to hear that. You were charged with treason and then exonerated When you had not even known you were charged with treason. The bewilderment in his eyes Is so well done. At the same time we can tell he is engaging his rational thinking mind
Trust @WE with W, he has the whole story at the back of his hand.
@LL, Yes the impact was great… HJ’s life turned upside down and she could not accept the changes that she could not recall experiencing at first…
I was so curious to remember what happened that I skipped ahead to rewatch.
@FF, no, destruction of tablet is linked to death of FL and happens later Ep13. What in QIYM is later when the talisman become black (and symbolize the ML death).
@FF, @WE must have rewatched ‘W’ more than 4 times.
@WE @GB, you have all gone ahead and rewatched so many episodes. I won’t have time to do that, just wait for the story to unfold week by week.
@GB, besides rewatching W and I think he engraves the whole story in his brain including minute details.
@GB She does not like him comparing her to the real queen
@GB, more than 10 times. ^^
I did also subtitles and changed lines and even an alternative end.
I stopped all that and now it was the past.
But… it was like a trap when I started to have ideas for a season2, the geyser of ideas couldn’t stop. Idea storm during many months, making my life a hell. I couldn’t poop quietly without having an idea (and have something for taking note even in the toilets).
Sorry Friends!!!, went to sleep late watching “Sono Onna, Jitterbug” and overslept like crazy!!! 🙁
Dear Bro @WE, I love when inspiration comes! 😀 . At this moment I am starting to write a story about how life is here and how much I miss my friends that went away during our Diaspora. Decided to keep a loaded fountain pen and a notebook for ideas at home and to write down my nocturnal dreams.
Man, 32 episodes are loads of inspiration!!! 😀
My ideas for stories are scattered throughout the house on bits of paper, In a notebook when I can find it And in different places On my devices. I have a fantasy I will someday pull together all these ideas
I think dreams can be a great source of material for creativity.
@FGB, it’s not something really on control, it comes like that.
And for @MM too: the only way is to note all! I like simple text file on computer. So if I’m in a bus, I take note on paper, then quickly put it on computer few hours later. But people using smartphone could also note it on this. When an idea is noted, it free the mind, and new ideas come… endlessly. T T
The more you are in a concept, like in a bath, the more it comes. So, stay with your concept and story in mind day and night, then, it turns on the idea flow.
Then what’s complicated is to organize that into a story, but it happens anyway, as new ideas appears to link that in a coherent way. It likes a alchemical reaction.
I have to go now, see you soon. 😉
I fell asleep! Hi @FGB. Missed you! Please add your comments.
Ah so many aspiring writers here on this rewatch team!
It’s a challenge to remember dreams! It takes discipline to gather all bits of info and sort them in some way, so that they can be found and used at the right time.
See you all next week!
I find the only way to remember. Dreams is to write them down when you wake up Otherwise they are lost. It helps if you wake up a lot during the night, but that’s not good for you otherwise. At 1 point I was sleepily dictating my dreams. In the middle of the night. Makes for an interesting listen.
A seldom notice the music on a first watch. It is only on the second (or third) watch that I really start to pay attention. The background music when BD gives HJ the car keys has a Brit box vibe (Ms. Marple mysteries, maybe, LOL).
And I loved the comic relief of HJ and SK try to mime out their conversation (though at that point we don’t really need comic relief).
That’s really a nice montage of HJ driving around BD; the far then nearer and nearer shots of BD, the looking back at him as he looks back at HJ, the slow motion feel. And then coupled with the music; a very wistful feel to it.
I like the camera’s focus on BD’s eyes when he tries to make sense of things, what exactly is missing and how much. Just before that scene as we watch him wake up I was trying to figure out how the actor manages to be the handsome hero. I have seen Ji Hyun Woo in one other drama (Angry Mom) and in that one he is sort of the antithesis of a hero (except maybe at the end). He projects scholarly vibes in that one and this one also. His physique helps, but I think it is the eyes; cold when he hold the knife to Min Ahm’s throat, bemused when talking to HJ, alert when fighting. Here in the last minutes of this episode, his bewilderment is clear; the director (scriptwriter?) is right to focus on his eyes. You can tell, just from his eyes, that BD realizes something very important is missing in his memory.
With all this focus on his eyes, I have noticed that he has one double eyelid and one monolid. This gives his eyes a particularly unique look.
@SD. There are many elements that go into the Car gift montage.- Music and how it is filmed. I think there is another connection between the Present and the past.
And that is driving the car in circles -reminiscent of riding a horse in a corral. Maybe that was unintended, but it added to the many elements,for me, in that scene.
To be also honest dear Friends, I still have to look Episode 7. I am still at the beginning of it. Will comment later!!! 😉
BTW @MM and @WE will read with special care your Posts as I am interested in your ideas about writing. Right now I am reading “What I talk about when I talk about Writing” by Haruki Murakami. Funnily enough when I search for the English version I don’t find it.
Back in Episode 7… well, the second male lead messed up but his heart was in a good place. The second female lead (obnoxious actress) is just a piece of work.
I have two related books on my to do list. One is the hero with a 1000 faces by Joseph Campbell. And the other is something about what to watch for when you watch a movie, but I can’t find it right now to tell you the author.
I think the English title might be what I talk about when I am running. A memoir
@FG it looks like the Murakami book is titled, “When I talk about when I talk running: a memoir” does that sound right?
Oops @MM. I just saw your post. Looks like you did what I did and googled it. It looks like he has a second book on writing, “Novelist as a [maze] Vocation”. I have a bunch of books on writing by famous authors; I may need to add another to my list.
Hi All! I’m happy to see that I wake up to many more messages here. It is as it should be ie the thread does not end with the rewatch but continues for long after as more viewers add in their thoughts. (Of course until @pkml3 decides the thread can be retired).
@FGB, it is fine to be behind or ahead in the Rewatch. At the most we may just mention what Episode we are talking about so that the sequence is clear.
It is better to speak of an older Episode than a future one perhaps, only so that we don’t add too many Spoilers too soon.
We see among us here not just @WE but @FGB, @MM, @SD interested in writing. I confess that I’m not serious enough about the craft and so cannot add my name to the list. At the most I am an undisciplined dabbler in words LOL.
@FGB,
I like how you consider the motives of our exasperating 2ML. Yes, he had good intentions, however he carries them out prematurely, childishly, impulsively too (like our HJ) and gets petty about losing to an ‘extra’. With both HJ and DM being impulsive, and him being a ‘player’ too, it’s good that they broke up and should stay that way.
I thought it an indirect ‘punishment’ for obnoxious actress to end up having to spend time with Dong Min while he rails at being supplanted embarrassingly.
(Side note: I’ll be going back to Sono Onna Jitterbug later today. I shall rewatch Episode 4.)
@GB, yes, it’s nice when you wake up!
But now, lots of text to type to reply.
“dabbler in words”.
A screenplay doesn’t need to be an expert in words.
The imagination, the visual, what’s happening in the story is most important. Then it’s translated into words. You have to live the feeling of the scene, otherwise you can’t translate it onto the page with the right pace and emotion.
As it has to be short, it can be interesting to know the words or a few tricks. For example, it’s better to say “excellent” rather than “very good”, or “the car accelerates” rather than “the car drives faster”.
You once had an idea for a scene in my episode 1. It got me thinking, and I re-imagined the scene as if I’d seen it on TV. It added rhythm, understanding and was better than the previous version. That’s the important thing!
My personal opinion: words can be an enemy. At least in screenplay. If the style is too flashy, then instead of imagining the scene as you read, you’re just admiring words and pretty phrases.
This is a problem that writers with too much ego have. They write as if it’s “look, I’m making pretty sentences”. And in reality, it’s rather boring to read and breaks the immersion in the story. Seeing and feeling the story in the mind’s TV screen is the priority, the words and the writer should be forgotten.
I realized this because I needed to translate my screenplay into English, using an automatic translation tool (which I correct a little). Only, my text couldn’t be translated! My writing was too complex in French. I had to simplify everything so that the automatic translator wouldn’t make a mistake. It’s a serious disadvantage, but it helps to have something that’s easier to read. The only negative point is that I find it harder to use strong verbs, as I’m not familiar with the subtle meanings of English words.
For example, “He looks seriously at her”. There are other ways of saying it in English. But I don’t always know the right word. It could be “He stares at her” or “He glares at her”. That’s just an example, there are thousands of verbs and words for other expressions, and if I’m not sure, I have to say “He looks seriously at her”. The writing isn’t as good, but at least it’s easy to understand.
Dear @SatledDust, I think that the English title is “Novelist as a Vocation”. I am still on it, but what I like so far is that you can see over his proverbial shoulder about how he takes on his craft.
Personally I only open the Word Processor Archive when inspired where he gets in front of several 400 Japanese character sheets everyday for 4-5 hours in the wee hours of morning. He also speaks about timetables, how he does his revisions (several before even presenting it to his first reader: his wife).
He also speaks on how to deal with criticism which being so early I don’t need yet but will become more important over time. A lot about the Process so far, more than about the technicalities of writing. How he preserves his best ideas for long novels that he considers his craft to not dilute them in other publications. And more.
I find it really interesting yet it is my first book on how to write, so I do try to temper my enthusiasm over it.
@SD, There are two types of screenplay:
– The one proposed to the producer, which contains the story and dialogue.
https://tvwriting.co.uk/tv_scripts/Collections/Drama/Mentalist/The_Mentalist_1x02_-_Red_Hair_and_Silver_Tape.pdf
– And sometimes The production screenplay, which contains guidelines on how it’s shot.
https://assets.scriptslug.com/live/pdf/scripts/king-kong-2005.pdf
Most of the time, the screenwriter writes the first type. And that’s what kdrama writers do.
For example, W two worlds screenplay contains almost no camera indications. Exceptionally, there’s a “FADE OUT FADE IN” or a “CLOSE UP”, but that’s rare. The camera is suggested by ordinary descriptions. It’s easier to read, like a novel.
So that answers your question about EYE movements.
In the scene you’re talking about, it’s probably written like this:
“He stares into space, unsettled”.
This may contain the meaning (SJJ does this sometimes).
“He feels he has forgotten something important.”
But no specific indication of his eyes.
The director and actor translate the writer’s intention in the way they think best, to reinforce the story. Here, we see the hero sitting, staring into space, worried, and the camera slowly approaches his face. As the end of the episode comes next, it’s natural to see the hero sitting down, getting a little closer and “flashing”, the end image.
W, here’s the end of the episode:
—————————–
In the dark, Kang Chul’s right hand holds a pistol.
Sung Moo and Kang Chul face each other, and then Yeon Joo cuts and divides between the two.
End of the 5th.
—————————–
SJJ even shows the final split screen and how it’s animated!
Before we see Kang Chul, the director can also do a progressive zoom. This was never shot because the script is different from the drama and the cliffhangers were changed.
Back to episode 3, 15:20.
The hero sees Seoul for the first time.
The scene is complex and the director has a lot to do with it. Alas, I don’t have the script, but it certainly contains:
– the idea of deconstructing Seoul and seeing it in the old era, then seeing it again in the present.
– an indication of “Close-up on Boong Do’s eyes”, at least once. I have no proof of this, but it seems important here, in the way the writer imagines the visual.
@FGB, I have a lot of books about writing.
But I’ve read very few!!! “Writing for Emotional Impact”, “No Fear Revision” and Scott Meyer’s PDF series. I started Syd Field “Screenplay” but gave up.
First of all, they’re in English and hard for me to read. Secondly, it takes a long time and the introductions are endless. The author adds tons of stuff. In fact, I’d just like to ask:
Take out all your text, and in place of your chapter, write a short series of tips.
The trouble is, it’s all theoretical knowledge, and it’s almost impossible to apply. After all, creation is not an intellectual act. And even worse, the intellect sabotages the imagination. You can pick up a book on “how to structure a film” with the steps. It’ll just give you an empty shell. Structure depends on story, not the other way around.
I’ve mostly read tips given by screenwriters on the internet, because it’s short. But you have to be careful, because not all advice is good advice. You have to keep a critical mind.
I’ve also given feedback on other people’s writing on a forum. It’s very useful. Seeing all their flaws makes me think: “hey, I might have that problem somewhere in my script too”.
And especially, analyzing SJJ’s “W” screenplay was really helpful. And getting into the habit of thinking by myself about writing, what you put in a script, how.
On a forum, I remember guys whining that they have a “writer’s block”, even though they’ve read tons of books. And when they publish something: it’s badly done. That’s it, they’re stuck in a theoretical thing instead of being free to create. They’re convinced there’s a “right way to do it” and are afraid of doing it wrong –KRIIIIP– Block. 😀
I don’t think there’s such a thing as a writer’s vocation. If someone is passionate about it and wants to do it, then they can do it. But what is it? Imagining a story, being enthusiastic, having lots of ideas. Then render it as well as possible, coherently.
The only thing to do is just create and write it. That’s the best way, the practice. And only once you’ve practiced a lot do you have material to work with. The various theories on writing make sense, and in truth boil down to very little. It comes down to “thinking by yourself”, acquiring certain reflexes, thinking about the meaning you put into a scene.
Here’s an example:
You write a scene in which the characters meet in the morning, have breakfast and talk.
That’s it, you’re done, you’re happy because you feel the scene is alive, the characters are saying funny things.
You put it aside for a few days, then read it again. With the feeling that something’s not right. ^^
Here, you can remember a few tricks, like “start late, end early”. The scene starts with people saying “hello, how are you”, “I’m fine, and you?”.
This is trite and boring, it’s better if the scene starts directly on the main subject. Correction: The scene is shortened at the beginning.
You think about the tip the first time, then after ten times, it’s become a reflex. It’s such a reflex that you write it right without the unnecessary stuff the first time.
Maybe even, in the end, you realize that the dialogue isn’t all that funny, that the scene doesn’t show anything interesting about the characters, or that there’s nothing about the story that’s important. And the final correction is to delete the scene!
SO… Don’t waste too much time on theory and books. Have fun and imagine your story, write down all your ideas, gradually structure them in a way that suits your story, then write it. You can sort out the problems later. Because there will be things to correct anyway. Here’s a quote I like: “Writing is mostly about rewriting”.
Ep. 7
Interesting how Bong Doo destroys his opponent: by making every part of the plan he ultimately had, happen before time.
Be careful what you wish for…
Hi @WE. Thanks for your careful description of the two types of screenplay. I appreciate it. I have learned so much from you about screenplay (Not hard since I knew zero before), but hey it’s cool.
And I enjoyed your comments to @FGB about writing. In my professional life I had to write methods sections and results sections for medical journal papers and verify the conclusions were correctly stated (matched the math). So revision was mostly 1) is it correct and 2) does this use the fewest word’s possible as clearly as possible so as to meet the strict word counts (like you can say ‘hospital’, you do not need to say ‘the hospital’, it is still correct). I am in the midst of taking an online class on revision in poetry, because it’s a whole ‘nother thing. Making a poem shorter does not make it better; nor does making it clearer necessarily make it ‘better’. So once I had written a poem I was stuck on good ways to revise it. So far this class has been very helpful and reflects what you have written about above; mainly some revision is what you have not yet included and some is still what is confusing to the reader (and do you want to leave it ambiguous — it’s a poem after all — or not). Anyway, I am just now learning all of this and obviously it is very different from what I have done before. Fun discussion.
Dear Bro @WE, thanks for the advice!!! 😀 . I was on a Literary Workshop in the late 90’s during University days, and “let your text breathe” was one of the many pieces of advice by our teacher.
And you are right, creativity can be really hindered by knowledge. As a sidenote it can also happen in science. Murakami seems very orderly so his methods can be helpful or not. As you stated, it is important to think by ourselves.
@SD, I did it too, powerpoint presentation, need to trim all. Very useful practice when writing screenplay.
Of course, poetry is totally different. There is no point to trim something for better efficiency in this. And about novels, trim can be useful, but a novel allow more content than screenplay, and can be content you don’t show on a screen.
Screenplay contains mostly what we see on screen, but it can have few unfilmables lines. Or saying what you show with an extra-flavor. What I have difficulty to do because of translation in english. It’s a permament battle about make it short and keep feeling, as a page should be an average 1 minute screentime. As I use korean format with notepad, I rather count words. 8000 words should be a 40 minutes episode.
@FGB, as you watched many kdramas or movies, anyway you can have an intuition about creating it. Maybe you prefer to write novels. Then, it depends more on the novels you’ve read.
@WE thanks for taking the time to write about writing!!! It was very interesting. I should pick up more books to read for fun. Nowadays I read for other reasons and I write technical stuff for work, special pages for work with children and fun posts for BOD.
Your way of doing it as proposed to FGB is my preferred style if I were ever to get into creative writing. I hate to follow strictly structure and rules. I’d rather plunge in and then edit.
I recall reading your script and suggesting changes in words/meanings that you didn’t ever aim to have LOL.
@GB, it’s important to be open and grateful when someone take time to read my stuff. And as you know, bad luck, back communication or anything, not many people did while it’s for free on internet. Well, I don’t focus that much on that, as I want to end the rewriting as a priority. Just I did an account on twitter.
Two others people read, one doesn’t give feedback but enjoyed. And obviously, it’s already enough, it’s the main point, as I publish for people to enjoy, like they are watching a drama. To find again the awesome feeling to be in W universe with new crazy plot-twists and dramatic “wow!” moments.
The other reader give comments, so I can think about that. And it helped me to make corrections. Sometime massive ones (I edited all the montages to put better keywords about flashback and present time).
But of course, each reader have a different way to read and be hooked, so I don’t have a complete picture. I’d need more opinions for that. This reader like when plot goes fast, action, revelations, sometimes comedy. But I have less comment about emotional scenes.
So it’s very strange, because on some scenes I think they are huge, no comment. And some scenes I think they are good but more common, in a unexpected way the reader like.
Also this reader is easely got by twists and don’t try to guess. If pm3 reads, I suppose she could guess too much. Maybe you are in a middle ground. For now, I don’t have a way to know how it’s predictable or not. And of course, a W sequel should be like the original material: quite unpredictable.
Feedback is something that help to think, re-imagine. It helps to see what I’m unable to see because I’m drowing into that. But I know a scene can be twisted, revisited, I’ve done it many times. But how many scenes left where I miss something better?
Maybe the opinion is right and it’s possible to use it to improve. Maybe it’s right but not precise and there is a problem but no solution to solve it for now.
For example, I think episodes 1 to 3 lack a little something, a more clear direction. And I have now way to fix that. Even after rewriting 38 episodes.
Then coming at episode 3 ending (what should be an episode 1 kdrama episode because my first 13 episodes are shorters, about 25 minutes)… I think the definitive hooking device is triggered. Episode 3 ending is a “wow!” moment. At this point, you die to know what happens next, and so on until the end. 🙂
Also, I remember you found many bad english expressions. Here it’s really a problem for me. I use translator but don’t get the right thing. Again, maybe because it’s how it is in french? I expect the first episodes to have this kind of problem. Maybe later, it’s better, as I made a little progress in english, but mostly the soft I use for translation also made a lot of progress!! 🙂
Last: I’ve the feeling that feedback coming from a screenwriter wouldn’t be so good than ones coming from kdrama audience. Kdrama aren’t written in the same way. And a screenwriter could judge something as a flaw when it’s not. It would need a kdrama screenwriter for that.
I’ve a good example with a scene with exposition on the noze. But it’s very common in kdramas. And this scene save me a lot of time. What’s the point to do it “right” according to a western screenwriter, if I need 3 more scenes for that? I just put a fast flashback montage, and it’s done!
You know that, I could note many flaws in Hospital Playlist, the reasons why I find that boring. But audience who liked the drama doesn’t care!! So, was it so bad? Maybe it’s better like that? Just not something for me.
And as I’m completing Alchemy of Soul currently, I find flaws too. Just I don’t care because I like the drama. But there are many scenes with useless monologues where the characters just say what they are currently doing. LOL! So, just do it! We can see! No need to describe it, the action is on the screen. 🙂
@WE, I’ve been assuming that you’re writing for the fun of it, that it’s your enjoyable ‘work’ after work. However perhaps I’m wrong. Do you think you’ll get your work produced in a show some time? It could be in French for French-speaking viewers.
@GB. The situation is not like that. I recap:
6 years ago, I had thousands of ideas to write a sequel to W. I didn’t want to do it because it was too long and required too much work. But I was trapped because the ideas were so powerful. So I had no choice but to do it. Despite the moments of doubt and the difficulties, I was happy doing it.
For a short time, I thought this script could make a real drama. I tried to contact people in Korea. Without success. Then I realized it was absurd. As time went by, there would never be an official sequel to this drama. And anyway, not from anyone outside Korea.
I’ve published this in its final form, with images. This way, the visual screenplay is attractive to read, as if it were a real kdrama. The drama doesn’t have to be filmed, it can be the final product.
I’m my first audience. After all, I write what I’d dream of seeing on screen if a real sequel were produced. And I was satisfied with the result, credible enough to be a real sequel. About that, I often got this thought: “let’s write a drama that can surprise even Song Jae-Jung herself, so she can enjoy the drama like audience like her dramas”.
Then, I wanted to share it with other drama fans who had enjoyed W season 1. So, it became the ultimate goal, as if the drama were broadcast online. I thought fans would be really happy watching/reading a drama that is faithful to the W universe and brings lots of amazing new things.
As it comes from a copyrighted license, there’s no way to offer it to anyone for production (except in Korea). It’s just fan fiction. Only more elaborate than fan fiction, because it’s written like a real kdrama screenplay. The translation into English is the most important thing, as it makes it accessible to the greatest number of people in the world.
@WE, Ah I understand now. Then perhaps you’ll give us the link (again?) to your work if you’re ready to ‘publish’ it.
So much to think about.. I get inspiration when I am dancing. I thought about The car scene again and thought how it was also dizzying To watch- Much like the Nature of their relationship..
@GB, Yeh, I give the link often because except in the middle of a rewatch, I always copy-paste the link to my blog in “website” zone. So click on my name and you get it. 😉
I post it anyway:
http://w4worlds.eklablog.com/
As some people can’t join the blog for some technical reason, I made a clone:
https://w-two-worlds-season-2.blogspot.com/
I suppose it’s because of https protocol, so I changed all links on my cloud host and made it all secure. But eklablog is just http and I can’t change that.
IHM Hyo Sub Who plays the evil state minister has fifty one dramas to his credit. I just counted them. For a while it seemed like every show I watched he was in. He does several, up to five or six, every year in the past few years. A wide range of roles, often evil. When he plays a more benign role I am very suspicious of him.
@MM LOLOL! Poor actor… typecast in cement!