The thread is open.
I haven’t forgotten my customary First Impressions, I’ll write it next week because I’m still behind with my other kdramas.
@birdie007,
Let me just answer your questions out here; I’m pressed for time.
1. If you’re hoping that RJ will turn out to be Mokha’s mom, then I’m sorry I’ll have to shoot that theory down.
Ep 1, at 35:48 mark, when RJ was in the hair salon, her masseuse asked her, “Did you pull an all-nighter? Your shoulders are too stiff for someone in her twenties.”
Ep 2, at 17:45 mark, the social services agent described MH as, “She’s 31 on the outside, but she’s still 16 deep down.”
If we assume that the the screenwriter didn’t make any mistakes in her dialogues, then that RJ’s-the-mom-of-MH theory would entail RJ giving birth to Mokha when she was 13 years old, at most.
29 years (RJ’s age) minus 16 years (MH’s age) = 13. That’s way too young.
(But then, RJ could have lied about her age when she entered showbiz.)
2. As for the existence of MH’s mother alive somewhere, I think we should take the father’s word at face value until evidence to the contrary comes along.
Ep 1, 27:20 mark, he told the police, “…After losing my wife and struggling to be a single dad…”
The story is already convoluted as it is, without us making it unnecessarily more complicated.
3. As for the shoes, yes, shoes are often symbolic props with this screenwriter.
In “Start Up” the granny gave JP new shoes when he left for Seoul. JP said something like he’d take the shoes and run away from her. So yes, the screenwriter is familiar with that superstition about shoes.
Years later, when JP encountered the granny near his office building, he noticed that the granny was wearing beat-up shoes and he bent down to tie her shoelace. I commented back then that for somebody who was bragging about how rich he was, he could have easily bought her a pair of skechers or something if he truly was a Good Boy.
4. As for WJ being a reporter in Seoul, that fact tells me that he isn’t Jung KiHo.
You see, as a reporter, his face would have been plastered on TV, especially if he was covering big news like this Mokha’s story. Surely, KiHo’s abusive father who followed him to Seoul and was searching for him all these years, would have recognized his own son on national TV. The fact the father hadn’t caught up with his son when he was on TV most days is baffling to me.
(Of course, WJ could have had plastic surgery done on his face during after that incident when he lost his memories.)
@WEnchanteur,
Stay away from the mydramalist forum. Lol.
@Growing_Beautifully,
Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to get this thread on queue so it didn’t post at the correct time. Sorry. 🙁
That’s it.
Let’s enjoy the show!
I just rewatched episode 22 be prepared for this weekend’s episodes. The last scene of the two of them singing on this stage was very touchand there hug was like a mother daughter reunion.RJ Asks the female lead, her name? There is no glimmer of recognition so I am thinking they are not mother and daughter. One thought I have is that the screen writer is Setting up two pairings which look obvious but may not be the case.
The reporter brother is certainly looking for an identity. And he thinks he has found it. The one conversation between the brothers wherr the other Brother is adamant about the reporter brother not being kiho certainly raises suspicions about him being kiho.
I think there are more than enough characters and relationships That another male lead being added to the mix doesn’t make sense to me. I am hoping. For not too much of a triangular loveline But more for a supportive context For the female lead to succeed with her beautiful voice.
Perhaps the one brother is not stepping forward and saying who he is because of the impact it would have òn the members of his family Potentially revealing a secret.
Brava, @monmor.
You finally got one of the reasons KiHo must keep quiet about his identity. Sure, his father is out searching for him. But this abusive man is also out looking for HIS mom. (Remember the first episode?) And now, he lives with his mom. (Right? I’m assuming that he’s finally living with his birth mom.)
My problem with WH (the reporter brother) is that he doesn’t think. Like a teenager, he’s doing things as an act of rebellion. And he isn’t just rebelling against anyone. He’s specifically rebelling against his supposedly younger brother — which to me makes their birth order all the more suspect. An older child doesn’t typically rebel against a younger child because the hierarchy favors the older child.
It’s a weird brother relationship. WH is rebelling against BoGyeol but at the same time, he copies BoGyeol’s pajamas and underwear. It’s as if he idolizes BoGyeol and wants to impress BoGyeol.
This show is definitely capturing my interest more than any of the others at the moment.
RJ might not have been truthful about her age. In episode two, she looks like she could be in her mid forties So she could have had a child in her teenage years Who would be 30 now. Like you though I am not sold on the two of them being mother and daughter.
In reference to an earlier comment of mine about when they hugged after singing. I wonder about a parent being able to identify a child who has become an adult. My son looks like his baby pictures but my daughter would probably be unrecognizable. When I saw her after a four year gap because of her travels, she seemed so different.
The female lead may also not be going by her birth Name. I wonder if her father had taken her from her mother illegally. Here in Canada, Kidnappings by a divorced spouse who does not have custody often happen.
Oops there are some inconsistencies here in my Thoughts. If RJ had her daughter when she was a teenager, she probably was not married Although the father could be a stepfather. A lot of intriguing questions.
Please take note of what I said to @birdie007 because it also applies to you, @monmor. 🙂
Be careful when making theories and spinning your own side plots. The story is already convoluted as it is, without us making it more so. It’s unnecessary.
That’s why I avoid reading other forums. I get annoyed, reallllly annoyed, with the hysterical speculations and illogical conclusions from the fangirls. I say stick with the plot, and when in doubt, go back to the exact scene and read the dialogues. Don’t go off-tangent.
@Pm3, paradoxicaly, it’s because I looked in detail to scenes and dialogue I made the speculation Ran Joo could be Mok Ha mother.
– Ep1, a line says she comes from the same island. And we don’t put line like that randomly in a drama. There is a reason for that.
– Ep1, 23:50. Mok Ha’s father destroy her guitar and her diva stuff. At this timecode, there is an insistent shot from director on the photo of Ran Joo.
– Then, I think the father could be that angry because he can’t stand Mok Ha admire his ex-wife. So why he destroy her stuff.
I also think about script and emotion. And it’s a beautiful idea, for doing further scenes with emotion, it’s why I thought it was possible:
– Mok Ha admire Ran Joo without knowing she’s her mother. Like a connexion stronger than raw reality.
– Ofc, scene of recognizing each other, very powerful for emotion. I saw that in some other dramas, it hit every time, even when you guess it. Maybe even more when you guess it or the writer gave the information before.
– Can also be the tragic version, the mother dies before they recognize each other. Mok Ha knows it after. (or best: Learn it, want to go see her, but she dies before she arrives).
– The lyric of the song (ep2 ending) get a new perspective. “I’ll take your hand”, “we’ll share the same dream”, and many other words I don’t remember.
Epic little problem: I totally forgot the AGE issue. 😅
So, I just hope it would be true. But if the writer also got the idea and don’t use it, I expect something even better. (is it possible?!)
Another clue for me was when someone comments on how they sound the same when they are singing
I posted a reply to pack mule. Not sure if I did it incorrectly and should do it again or if it was caught in a filter?
@MM, I came for the strong emotions this writer can create.
But I’ve to admit the plot mysteries are damn complicated. 😓
@pm3, I notice you can get reallllly annoyed.
But when I do it too, I’am reaaaaaly annoyed. 😋
@PM3 I am going to repost my comment before I forget what I said.
I do not feel I am going off tangent. I am coming up with possibilities as I look for evidence One way or the other, to support or negate that possibility. I agree with you that a close reading of the drama is important.
I am someone who did not watch start up. I have not been fond of Mr Smarmy Dimples😂. Nothing I have posted here is something I have read elsewhere or posted elsewhere.
Yes, that’s why I questioned the theory of her being her mother. I’ve seen soap operas and this seems unnecessarily convoluted. I’m leaning towards aunt or maybe sister? I do think there will be some relation.
Yes maybe they are sisters. If they are related that would make more sense and be much less convoluted
@WEnchanteur,
The theory about RJ being the mom is great UNTIL you hit the wall about her age. RJ would have been too young to beget a 16 year old daughter (unless that pregnancy was the reason she left the island…and then you go down that ridiculous rabbit hole: was RJ raped? molested? and so on and on. I have the obligation to pull people out of that rabbit hole. lol.)
1. As for MH’s disclosure RJ was originally an islander like herself, I agree. A line like that isn’t just put randomly in the drama.
But I thought the reason that line existed is made clear when in a few scenes after that, MH cried in front of the whole class while RJ observed her. He had a major revelation. He realized why MH wanted desperately to meet with RJ, and what she intended to tell RJ after she impressed RJ with her singing.
RJ: I could guess what her secret was. After performing in front of her, MokHa would’ve probably said this to Yoon RanJoo. “I want to become like you.” “I want to leave Chunsam Island and become so famous that I’m untouchable.” “So…please save me.”
THAT, my dear @WEnchanteur, is the reason that line about RJ coming from the island and changing her voice, diction, etc was written into the dialogue. I highly doubt that it was intended to create a mother-daughter sideplot.
2. As for MokHa’s dad destroying her guitar and diva stuff, yes, there was this shot of RJ.
But it wasn’t — at least, in my opinion — to foreshadow a mother-daughter link. To me, it was to demonstrate how her father clipped her wings before she could fly off to her idol, RanJol. Her father trashed her dreams.
She wished that she could escape the island just like RJ and escape her abusive and alcoholic father.
RJ was her “goddess” as in “role model.” MH could copy her and she could cling to hope that a better life was in her future if she pursued her dreams.
But once, her father destroyed all her RJ things, she had to face reality that nope!! she and RJ had nothing in common.
RJ’s photo was trashed = her dream was trashed.
But this as we know was just a temporary setback because KiHo swooped in like superman to rescue her.
3. As for her father destroying MH’s altar devoted to RJ, no, I don’t think it was because RJ was his ex-wife and he couldn’t stand MH admiring his ex-wife.
I’m limited by the constraints of the plot. As of Episode 2, there’s nothing that indicates that RJ was his ex-wife. However, there’s plenty of evidence that he’s a mean drunk.
Per his confession to the police, he got mad at MH because she was undisciplined. He was beating her up for “her own good” because he didn’t want her to be looked down upon whenever she behaved in an unruly/reckless/irresponsible manner as she was already put down by the locals for being motherless. THAT’s his (pathetic) excuse.
Now, he said this convincingly. If he was holding back another reason like misdirected anger towards an ex-wife, it didn’t show at all.
His primary target was MH, and MH alone. He destroyed MH’s shrine for RJ because a) he was drunk, b) he felt pressured to raise a good daughter, and c) he didn’t have a clue about disciplining a child.
MH’s father is different from Riho’s father. Don’t be “head-faked” there. RH’s father was the one who was angry with his ex-wife. MH’s father, on the other hand, was just angry with fate, and the cards he was dealt with.
The writer wouldn’t give the two dads the same motivation.
I like that explanation. It is also in line with my thoughts about the characters seeking their identities. That does not need to be through biological ties.
The writer keep hiding kiho in ep 3. So i guess she intends to keep viewers guessing🗿
Meanwhile i want the story more focusing in mokha journey to be a real diva..
Its better than collecting new shipper fans from secondlead things to make a war..
seo mokha deserve better treatment than this..
And seems like kiho dad is really scary as i expected, he keep searching kiho until now.
Btw, park eun bin really did great job as singer and dancer here. Her live singing for ost castaway diva really sound like she is real singer 🤩
Her old agency keyeast seems like train her in both dance and sing, “maybe” in JYP with kim soo hyun.
Since she was once acting as suzy sister in dream high drama, got short appearance with soo hyun..
@pm3, thank for this long explanation. It makes sens. Anyway, I won’t stick to what I believe or want, and watch with curiosity what the drama propose next.
I ended ep3.
Again a strong feeling at the end of episode and various touchs before.
The drama is very moving.
We have a clear definition of the two bad guys:
– Ran Joo’s manager, Lee Seo Joon, who’s motivation is now to stop Ran Joo to get 20 millions of sale records, or he loose half of the producing company. We had the information of this 20m sales in previous episode, but forgot to comment about it.
– Ki Ho’s father, Jung Bong Wan, who want to find Ki Ho. As expected, thanks to the Mok Ha TV news. No idea what he would do next.
About Ki Ho: I lose interest to find who he is, I just wait the story unfold. I think a bit about Bo Geol. When they are before the roof room, his way of speaking is reminiscent of Ki Ho. (I’ll find timecode when rewatching)
A detail striked me in this episode: Mok Ha character, her voice with the island accent, acting of quality. As well as the writing of a “16 yo girl in a 31 body”. I think particularly about the scene around 1:00:00, when Ran Jo and Mok Ha talk in the company office, after Lee Seo Joo departure. This scene gives momentum to the short next one, when Mok Ha goes out and just says to the brothers:
MOK HA: Both of you, you will help me!
I liked a lot the determination and lack of choice or politness. 🙂
I should make a list of striking visuals too:
– when Wok Ha waits in the corridor and the water rise.
– Her friend the seagull, on the cooler or when she eats ramen.
List to continue… specific visuals gives an identity to the drama universe.
Ok I just have to say it but I did not like the Milli Vanilli (lip synch in the TV show) part of the story but I will give it the benefit of the doubt. The local show was essential because that is how the diva and the fan meet. I wish there was a way to do it differently but I don’t imagine RJ’s voice can be rehabilitated in just several days, that’s not realistic either. So let’s see where this will take us.
On diva discussion – we saw that RJ was really acting like a diva in memory montage of her complaints but they actually yielded better working conditions in the studio (better air quality). She was not unreasonable in hindsight.
But the comeback is getting a lot of challenges and Pres Lee pulling back all her albums so she can’t sell to 20Million copies was just underhanded. The artist not having rights to her body of work is simple unjust. I feel like this has the whiff of Taylor Swift doing TS version of her old albums.
SpoilerALERT
Spoiler
Spoiler
The writer is still not going to give us the identity of Kiho. I am trying to think of how the one brother could have those memories if he is not kiho, unless he is Kiho’s brother and there is no evidence for that. At this point I am thinking there was a communication between the 2 brothers That the audience was not privy to or Bo geol Realized his father might be contacting her at that meeting location. Those green jackets And the build up to the 2 of them having the same jacket Was a nice continuity that has been there from the beginning As we realized that 1 brother imitates the other brother. So my working hypothesis is that the reporter brother is kiho And the other brother knows the story. I could easily waver on this hypothesis Because there were many times the camera was suggesting That Bo Geol is Kiho Or at the very least no situation. I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
I enjoyed the horse chestnut analogy.
.
At the very least knows the situation
Episode 4. First watching commentary.
Structure, episode 3, we have a Flashforward-style cliffhanger.
Useful for various reasons, especially if you don’t have another good cliffhanger.
Episode 4 tells what happens before and only at the end resolves the Ep3 cliffhanger.
Then it quickly moves on to its own cliffhanger.
As soon as Woo Hak receives the flowers and business card, we suspect it’s a trap from Ki Ho’s father. The card isn’t handwritten, it seems to me.
In the dining hall, Woo Hak tells Bo Geol that Mok Ha has received the flowers from Ki-Ho.
Bo Geol immediately reacts (and runs off). This reaction is normal, as he knows who Ki Ho is (whether it’s him or Woo Hak). This proves that Ki Ho can only be one of them.
Who is Ki-Ho.
It seems that my plot-twist proposal was heard by the scriptwriter, lol!
Outstanding scene. The memory of Woo Hak, with Ki Ho’s father. Does this prove he’s Ki Ho? Not 100% certain though. I’ll have to watch it again to check. Maybe the two brothers were in the house with the father. In any case, very nice of the scriptwriter to tangle us up like this.
If Woo Hak is Ki-Ho, Bo Geol has known it all along.
But he doesn’t want Mok Ha to know that Woo Hak is Ki-Ho.
For various reasons we’ll discuss later.
And so he replaced Ki Ho to wait for Mok Ha at the station after his memory loss.
However, at the end of the episode, the scriptwriter sows doubt (one last time?).
Because it’s Bo Geol who arrives first to save Mok Ha.
I think this riddle is interesting, whether we can guess or not. As long as the scriptwriter doesn’t clearly confirm who Ki Ho is, it sustains the audience’s interest and makes people more attentive to the brothers’ every reaction. Particularly Bo Geol, who’s all restraint and little expression.
Another powerful scene, with an unexpected twist (even two twists).
Ran Joo goes to see Lee Seo Joon, and surprisingly… Twist, he has regrets.
Ran Joo feels sorry for him and is about to kiss him. We guess they were lovers in the past.
Next comes a story told by Wok Ha about horse chestnuts.
They’re a bit poisonous, but when you’ve got nothing else to eat, there’s no choice.
This makes us think that Lee Seo Joon might be Ok.
And just at the last moment, before the kiss. TWIST!!!
He’s a really awful guy who’ll do anything to stop her selling records.
Other episode details…
The seagull is back (beginning of episode).
Used for an aside about how sad it is to eat alone.
Apart from its usefulness in the scenario, it’s also a good theme for the lonely society. Apparently there’s been a phenomenon in South Korea about bars and restaurants where people eat alone.
A moving scene ends with Ran Joo crying.
She and Mok Ha read the newspaper articles.
Ran Joo sees herself as an old woman of 60 (or more).
This is a correlation to dialogue from the previous episode.
“For a singer, age must be doubled.”
I think about it more. Why the plot-twist about Seo-Joon forbiding Ran Joo to sell records is so powerful?
It’s not only about going for a kiss and last moment cancel the kiss.
It’s because the plot-twist is supported since the beginning of the episode.
First, Mok Ha tells the story about Horse Chesnut and relies the poisonous fruit to Seo-Joon. Convincing Ran Joo to never trust him. Scene when she receive Seo-Joon gifts, drinks, chocolate, etc.
So we enter the scene Ran Joo and Seo-Joon with that in mind.
And we are unsettled when he have regrets and she feel sorry.
How is that possible? To convince us:
The continuation (flashback) of the story about horse chesnut make us believe that… after all… It’s still possible. Then FINAL PLOT-TWIST. 🙂
Lesson to remember for screenwriting: it’s possible to have a more powerful effect by using something aside the main situation. With a meaning or metaphor.
One detail to notice.
In the dinner Hall, when Woo Hak says to Bo Geol that he got the flowers from Ki Ho.
Bo Geol gets no more information! Then run-off.
So, it’s quite obvious he knows where to go.
Or else it would be like a big plot-hole.
That just says he knows the place where Mok Ha and Ki Ho promised to meet.
What is more strange: as it’s a trap from the father.
How does he knows it’s at this place and time? (8pm)
Ah, ideas keep flowing…
I rewatched the flash memory of Woo Hak.
It’s blurry and confusing.
But I notice this: It’s not subjective view.
We rather get the feeling of someone spying the whole scene.
Now, remember episode 1:
The shot on the cam-recorder in Ki Ho house.
This element of the script wasn’t used until now.
Hypothesis: For a reason, Woo Hak watched what’s on this cam.
it’s not his own memory (objective view), then he lost his memory later.
To help a bit, some timecode of this situation with cam:
Ep1, 12:40. Ki Ho house. Cam recorder on (red light) during the beating.
Ep1, 59:46. Boat. Cam records in the bag.
Ep1, 1:03:12. Boat. What happened later to this bag?
I’ve watched Ep 3 and 4 but Real Life has thrown me a curve ball. Although I have a lot of notes on Ep 3, I may post it much later. I’m trying to subscribe to this thread and see if I get emails.
@WE. I am enjoying your commentary. One thought that dawned on me but I have not reviewed the show for evidence, is that the adult male, we see waiting at the station earlier in the series Could be the vengeful father. What kind of uniform Is the vengeful father wearing In the present.? For some reason I thought He had gone to jail or at the very least Lost his job.
I did not pick up on the camcording and how it might currently be relevant. I am thinking about the references to winter sonata. If my memory serves me correctly, the male lead In that show had false memories implanted.
Flash memories by Woo Hak:
The beginning is impossible to see unless you freeze-frame.
Here, the view is subjective, showing knives.
Secondly, the scene doesn’t take place at Ki Ho’s house.
Ep1: All the doors are sliding, including the outer one!
And in flash memory, we see a door with a handle.
I missed subscribing to this thread but will do now. Apologies if I posted anything elsewhere that was discussed here.
@WEnchanteur, thank you for your detailed notes. The idea that Woo-Hak’s memory may not be real is intriguing. I know it happens like that – sometimes old memories are very influenced by other sources than pure memory.
Yes, where is Ki-Ho’s bag? Did it stay on the ferryboat and perhaps was found later? The bag contained the photos of Ki-Ho’s bruises and things he was keeping as evidence against his father.
I liked your explanation of Ran Joo as an old lady looking back on the moment.
@Monmor, at the end of episode 4, Ki-Ho’s father is wearing the uniform of a flower delivery service. Even earlier he seemed to wear a uniform, but I can’t imagine that he would have been allowed back into the police force unless he appealed his case and won for unfair dismissal. Perhaps he became a security guard or similar in Seoul?
@WEnchanteur, somehow to me the knives and sharp objects seemed to be collected (in a sack or cloth) and perhaps hidden under the sink. I tried to watch this by freezing frames quickly, but it’s still such an obscure mix of the highway outside and the flashback. The first look at the doorknob had someone with a white sleeve trying the doorknob. When the father was trying it, he was wearing a dark jacket.