Please post your spoilers, rants, raves, and insights here. Thanks. Let’s enjoy the show!
My life on the beach, as a bitch. Carefree cartwheels.
I’ll have to slurp down more oysters (they’re aphrodisiacs, lol) tonight just to feeeelllll amorous for this new and improved, and rehabbed Captain.
Heheheh! I’d say, let your husband benefit from those oysters!!!
If feels have to be worked at, they (or the characters for which they are to be raised) are not worth working for. 😑
Don’t those oysters look mouthwatering? They tasted so good but I had to stop at six because of their high purine content. My husband is more concerned about my health these days than anything else. He’s such a worrywart.
True. Feelings can’t be faked but they can be masked. 🙂 I’ve to work well with people who generate contempt and revulsion in others, and admiration and adulation in others. As long as I focus, I don’t let their personalities get in the way of the mission. There’s a popular restaurant here in the city where the maitre d’ sits the guests according to their political party — the Dems go to one side, the Reps to another side. The reasoning is the “wrong” people may accidentally listen in on the lunch conversations. lol. The maitre d’ sits me anywhere I want to — or according to the party of my lunch companion.
But yes, the old-time posters here should just come out and say which side they’re on without fear of being blacklisted — by me, of all people. 🙂
Manwoel’s helping Captain to cross Sanzu river but after a month Manwol’s haven’t return despite promises that she will, Chanseong had crying so hard..i feel heartbroken..noooo
@Papai heheheh, my unfeeling response to that is that this is only Episode 14. A couple of false ending scenarios may be laid out to troll us until the end.
That being said, I may still find my tear ducts affected by YJG’s dismay… we’ll see. I’m actually a softie at heart who cries easily, and found it awfully difficult to sit through the bloody fighting scenes.
😍 That’s why I like you and @agdr0. You’re both softies.
Casablanca’s ending scene makes me cry. When I want my tear ducts cleared, I watch it. There’s something about Humphrey Bogart trying to be the grown up during their farewell, and taking the high road that gets me.
Who’s YJG? I’m having a brain freeze here.
LOL… YJG = Yeo Jin Gu our Male Lead. I was talking about his acting and whether he’d ‘make me’ cry. So I referred to him by his real name initials rather than by the character name.
Yes, brain freeze is a real ‘condition’. I get it when I’m lost for words that I know, and have look up the thesaurus over and over again. Takes me ages to write a couple of paragraphs, even when I know the words!!!
Haven’t watched the episode yet, waiting for subs, but don’t think we should get alarmed for MW until 49 days have passed!
I don’t know where to comment on unrelated topics here but I just wanna say this:
I am grateful that I found you @packmule3 and your points/reviews/arguments at TKIL forum. Thank you and thanks to the rational minority side posters here as well as this site for existing 😊. Now I have a go-to as to some k-drama discourses. I actually visit here in case I want some drama recommendations. But really, I only read your commentaries than actually watching the dramas (e.g. ALML, Seducer) 😁 I can only tick off 2 or 3 dramas out of the categories here. So yeah.
I’ll admit. As of now, I am mostly looking out and watching k- and j-dramas based on the plot, but I get easily carried away by visuals and chemistry. And so I haven’t watch that many k-dramas. I’ve watched more j- than k-dramas, I believe. I love that jdramas really focuses on the story more than chemistry-inducing scenes which I found more frequently on k-dramas I’ve watched. J-dramas are concise and K-dramas I’ve encountered are dragging most of the time.
However k-dramas are more accessible so sometimes I look out for kdrama as well. Anyway, I’m actually into j-movies than j-dramas…
I’m glad you covered HDL. Well, I was curious and intrigued by its plot and so I watched the first episode and became hooked to it. And I’m so happy that you watched it too and are posting commentaries on it as well. I can’t really rely on myself because I get tempted with visuals and chemistry as you know now.
Someday, I’ll gonna watch k-dramas and really focus on the script like you do and not be sidetracked by the feels. Actually, I just got lucky with TKIL and how I sided with the REAL OTP WONSAN FTW 😀😃 For me, they’re actually more visually pleasing than RinSan you know. But the ending is so frustrating arggh..
Well, this is all for the unrelated topic. Hihi. Can’t wait to watch Ep 14 later and for the highlights post 😃.
In an early episode, MW gets the bellboy ghost out of CS’s body by punching him. I thought …that’s an interesting gag, wonder if we’ll see it again? Well, we saw it again. A slap on CS’s shoulder by the bartender, and the Captain is back to being a firefly… and this being post hug and MW’s realization that CM’s spirit is within CS, plus ambiguous Mago leads to the crisis..
It’s interesting how little things tie back in…
So, what would you have done in the Captain’s place, standing on that bit of sand, faced with MW’s gang of rebels dead or hundreds of your own dead?
The HS seem to be taking the utilitarian view.
Give me some of that yummy looking oysters! 😋
I haven’t seen episode 14 but I want to say that I am on CS’s side, have always been. Captain is cute yes but all his given MW are tears of sorrow, bitterness and resentment. She never became a better person after him so I won’t ever see his rehabilitation even if he is the moon looking at her from above or the firefly whose been with her tree.
CS have always been there for her, through the good times and the bad. He always made her aware of the good things which led her to making the right decisions. MW have become a better person and that is love for me. He’s been very honest right from the start too unlike the Captain.
I want CS back! Bring him back HS!!! 😠
I think I’m getting why you guys say the plot sort of derails in the end:
– Maybe it was something to do with the translation but why didn’t Jiwon just gobble down the evil charm right away? What was stopping him? I thought that was really odd.
– I felt the part about drinking the flower booze came a bit out of nowhere and was too convenient.
– Mago being ambiguous really annoyed me. It felt like it just stretched out the tension for the sake of it. Like Jesus stop confusing poor MW with all this vague reincarnation and almost killing CS hooplah. I get it’s necessary for her growth, but it felt kind of forced to me and I see it as a plot device.
– Actually in general compared to the other episodes the tension felt too stretched out up until MW met with the captain again when I could enjoy the story better.
Seems like this will be the last we see of the Captain thankfully. Though I’m okay with how he’s portrayed here, I would’ve flipped my shit if MW went with him in the end and never watched Kdramas ever again especially since he seems to have quite a number of fangirls (and fanboys) who somehow think he’s better for MW because he made some bad choices and flew around as a self-pitying firefly for 1000+ years even though CS helped her heal from her trauma and CS and MW are kinda on the same wavelength here.
We also maybe have a better idea of why CS is clutching his chest a lot now. Guess that will be a big plot point. I’m a bit of a softie too so it was sad seeing him break down at the end for the first time in the story in contrast to his usually collected and cool demeanor. If MW does return somehow, I wonder how it affects her memory. The story did emphasize that time doesn’t work the same once you go in that tunnel/bridge, so that probably explains why MW has been missing for over a month.
Looks like Intern and Bellhop plotline will be the focus next (and I’m still wondering what Scholar Kim is all about). The fake (?) brother looks a bit sketchy but it’s hard to say. There’s still two episodes left which is a lot and it’d be pretty awkward if MW was missing from all of that. Now that she’s let go of her past, it seems, the plot can take any sort of direction.
Overall I feel like a lot more explaining has been done via Mago and Death these few episodes which makes the show lose part of its mysterious charm a bit.
An interesting (but perhaps irrelevant) observation here: CS usually wears white blouses with his suit, but during the entire “Was CS actually Cap in his former life?” crisis he wears black blouses with his suit, then a striped one when he faces Seol JiWon. He then wears a white blouse again afterwards. What it symbolises though – is it distrust or hurt from MW?
To me, the ending scene signifies MW choosing to finally let go of the past and choosing to live out the remainder of her time with CS. Interesting to see Cap holding one of Mago’s flowers too, weren’t they supposed to be for people who lived a good life?
I will attempt to answer @FlyingTool’s question although personally I would never have ended in that predicament in the first place because I wouldn’t have flirted with her knowing the relationship was never going to end well when we’re on different sides of the law. 🙄
“So, what would you have done in the Captain’s place, standing on that bit of sand, faced with MW’s gang of rebels dead or hundreds of your own dead?”
I would’ve decided like the Captain. BUT I would NOT have
– shown up armed in the bed chamber (as if to egg her to kill me)
– NOR used her sword to kill myself.
I would’ve come unarmed
– explained my predicament to her, APOLOGISE (yes it’s a dirty word nowadays but do try it, works wonders), and let her do with me as she will. If she chooses to kill me, then so be it. If she chooses to let me live, then I would live with regret and pain for the rest of my days. This would actually be the bravest option. Because the ball is then thrown into her court and she decides my punishment. Killing myself on her sword when she obviously couldn’t go ahead with it in the first place robs her of that choice. I made the choice FOR her. It makes it all about ME (O woe is me, MY life is no longer worth living 🙄) and not about HER.
But I pined for 1000years (O look! The sun shines from my butt 😂) as a Firefly buzzing around my beloved – romance has another name and it’s The Captain. I was miserable 😩. Poor little Me, Myself, I. Did you not swoon when I saved her from impending death? O so galant of ME! And brandished my sword as we locked blades and gazes. (Ooo…) My long luscious locks would give Fabio a run for his money (O Captain my Captain!). My exit from this world was just as spectacular was it not? I drew her blade into my chest and embraced her…ONE…LAST…TIME. (Chorus of sighs please). Blood spatters on white garments. So poetic. Gaston from Beauty and the Beast has a twin and his name is Firefly. Not just any firefly mind you. A thousand year old one. Vintage. Unique. Come thee hither fair maiden, take my hand and we shall cross that bridge together. You know you want to. How could you resist? Mr StraitJacket hotelier just cannot compare to c’est moi. 😂
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 That was great @nrllee ! Loved it! 😍 I especially like the ‘o captain, my captain’. 😂
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
My laughter literally went that far @nrllee!
You are so funny! I loved the sarcasm there! 😂😂😂
@nrllee LOLOL I loved the image of the sun shining from his butt, the long luscious locks and the chorus of sighs. Over here the latter will have to compete with the chorus of hoots and heckles.
that what i’m saying @nrllee..i agree wholeheartedly with you..he robbed her of her choice..he kill himself with her sword when she’s still talking & haven’t finish pondering her option..so selfish of him..no wonder the rage,the resentment are deepen through ages..she could’ve settle it earlier if only she let her slice him..
do we obligated to forgive every person we wronged to?does it make us a very bad human to just forget & move on without that person..?first love always end up as tragedy anyway..its overrated..
I feel that as long as CS is alive then MW will not die because he has the flowers from the Moon tree inside of him.
So I don’t mind an ending where they both die in the end and they both go to the afterlife together.
Even after knowing the truth about the Captain, it was still a choice that he had to make and he chose that path for MW.
My heart cried out with CS at that last scene. 😩
Question- Why is it that a lot of people cry at the bus stop in kdramas? 😬
Manweol may come back to CS and the living realm after sending the captain off. Afterall, MW is not seen holding the white flower (it’s like a ticket right?).
But I am still anticipating that MW will cross the bridge someday and go to afterlife and be reincarnated again. I think it would be vain and nonsense if she’d still stay for a couple of years to be with CS.
Though she may become a human and live with CS in the current lifetime, I guess. Like she’s said to be not living but also not dead, right? And the writers may scheme things like oh the deities can actually make MW be human or whatever they would possibly come up.
I’d favor MW be crossing Sanzu river really. Let her reincarnate and all. She’s already spent 1300 yrs in this lifetime. She deserves a break.
I’d be sorry for CS, he’ll experience loneliness for a lifetime but I would like for them to meet in another life and make a totally different story, like a simple one and not as complicated as their situation now. Like it’s better if they start anew.
Also I would like to admit the reason that I don’t really favor MW-CS of this lifetime and why I lean and root towards CM. Age may not be an issue because MW is a not so living spirit and time really seems to stop and so they’re not ageing,but it’s really offputting for me that MW is a freakin’ 1300 year old entity having a romantic relationship with a 29 year old human. Same with Hyunjoong and Yuna relationship. But what can I do, really ha.
BTW, YJG is Yeo JinGoo, the actor of CS 😁
@agdr03
LOL, it’s because they missed the bus!
Thinking about the cliched scene of the bus coming and the person sitting there, and then the bus leaving, and the person is still sitting there. Yeah well, I guess it’s the image of being unable to get up and move on, of being abandoned, of being alone (usually so after the bus leaves) so of loneliness, of the journey being sad because one misses the other person.
I think it was in Ep 4 or 5 that the word ‘lonely’ was bandied about a couple of times. I noticed it because we mentioned here on BoD that after MW goes, CS was going to suffer loneliness. Well, Ep 14 is where it starts.
i cannot help but suddenly remembered about the old married couple reunion at the hotel but his wife is happily hand in hand with her first love that died early prior their marriage..😱😱
@nrllee omg you are so funny 😂😂😂
CM walking across the bridge with one of Mago 1’s flowers (looks that way to me anyway) is the Hong Sisters’ statement on CM’s life + 1300 years as a firefly. YMMV.
Let’s see if I can remember the thoughts that flit through my mind after this episode. It was a really long one 1.5 hours!!! and took me forever to watch with breaks and interruptions.
RANTS below…
The Weird Logic – physical stuff – In episodes past I was guessing about some of the things MW could do, but these last 2 episodes, she is shown able to teleport in puffs of smoke from point A to point B. She is even able to transform a slim hair pin into a hefty long dagger. So, why does she even drive or have someone drive her about. Granted she likes her ‘pretty’ cars, but why use them when teleportation is so much niftier and free!
And if she can make that dagger from a miserable pin, why not produce her own accessories (and sell them to make an income!!) instead of going shopping. She could even make her own clothes, for goodness sake.
The Weird Logic – plot stuff – So, MW tells Seo Hee that MAYBE CS is CM… but it’s a MAYBE. Logically she should try to make sure first!!! Since MG is being unreasonably and wrongly (I’d say) ambiguous, she could have tried something else to find out. Spend more time with CS, visit the other Ma Gos… whatever. But she jumps to carry out the most destructive action ever, which could irreparably harm a very innocent CS, plus possible innocent bystanders, nevermind destroy herself (since she does not care about herself, I wonder if I should!). I just could not believe it. Is this where the Hong Sisters go awry???
I’m trying to interpret it as her being so fed up by the uncertainty that she’s throwing all caution to the winds, thinks she might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb and so tempts fate entirely by creating a powerful evil spirit, who’s out for CS’s blood and even Grim Reaper might not be able to help him. She declares blithely that she won’t protect CS but MG probably would. What the heck!
I may sympathetically say that at least her character is written consistently here ie irresponsible, unreasonable, acting on emotions, out to assuage the paramount need for revenge . . .but what of the MAYBE? What of her love? What of the sincere and lovable CS whom she is supposed to love? Felt so wrong.
The other way to interpret it, (the Hong Sisters version of emptying out the moon?) is that she wanted to be as bad as possible, to hit rock bottom at CS’s expense, to empty out all her grudges and resentment, (and again tempting fate), so that if and when she is forgiven, the worst of her would be washed away, as it were, by the mercy shown her. So it was like, I was so baaaaad but I am still forgivable, so yay, I start with a clean slate. But at what a horrendous risk! CS could have died a horrible death – and now we understand MG4’s warning that he would be made to pay a terrible and unfair price.
Well that’s not the right way to empty out evil from one’s heart! Acting on the evil is just manifesting the evil and hurting others, not removing it!!! (Note to Hong Sisters – Logic fail to me).
Of course show had to go this illogical route because … conflict and suspense were needed.
Instead the way it played out with bartender’s drinks’ ability to get the knowledge of the past from Det. Park/Yeon Woo and Mi Ra/Seonhwa directly to MW, should have been the first thing ever that was done!!! If that had been possible from day 1, why were we stressed out over MW cursing Mi Ra!!! Or MW hating CM for over a 1,000 years (oh yeah … conflict and suspense)!!??
Testing Man Wol
And Ma Go 1 takes the cake for being hypocritically benevolent on the one side but unconscionably indifferent and even evil on another. She deliberately planted ideas that could be misconstrued and left it ambiguous to test MW who was not in any right frame of mind to be tested. The price for failing this test was much too high. Why bother to set up so much for MW’s redemption, only to pull the rug out from under her feet?
Previously we were thinking that her test would come when evil befell her beloved and we’d see whether she’d take revenge for that or not. But Hong Sisters have one upped that by merging both perpetrator and victim in her beloved, to see if she’d still take revenge. So really, MW failed the test!!!
She was given insufficient information and of course she flunked it!
Once she had the memories of her comrade and enemy, once she was told how to call forth CM, she gained the needed information to make an informed choice. But MG refused to let her have this!!! How unfair was that?
MG deliberately refused to remove MW’s doubts and in so doing, was as culpable of any harm that MW could and almost did cause, as all those cases before about allowing evil while doing nothing. Why bother to put MW in the hotel for her redemption or bring CS to her, if in the end MG was going to engineer such a terrible situation that could well have resulted in CS’s death. In effect what we said about CS receiving the lily in advance, as a child holds true… he was meant to be sacrificed if necessary in order to test MW!!!
So after 13.5 episodes we are left with unnecessary grudges and lots more to be punished for. MW should actually have gone on her knees before CS to be forgiven and should have been punished for giving that hairpin to Jin Woo. She risked so many innocents who would have been possessed by him and possibly died. The only great thing about that CS-Jin Woo fiasco was having the Hotel 3 Amigos doing the cool slow-mo walk in the mist, to help CS.
Then in the end if all Jin Woo could do was turn and run and get easily throttled by Grim Reaper… what was all that talk from MW that GR had his work cut out for him with JW becoming an evil spirit? Did he not make use of the power in the hairpin? The ending was surprisingly and disappointingly lame for Jin Woo after 3-4 episodes of him being bad-ass evil.
To give show it’s due, it was still a compelling watch although a watch in which I face palmed a few times. What added conflict can we hope for in 2 more episodes, other than: ‘will she or won’t she come back’, or ‘remember’ (amnesia trope warning!!!) or will we have a time skip of years?
I refuse to entertain the thought of her going off across the bridge with CM… anyway ep ended with her turning her back on him. Hope she keeps walking away from that insect.
Okay, you win! I’m not watching this episode. lol. I’ll let your comment be the official review for this blog. hahaha.
@GB On the weird logic, in storytelling, the most important thing is suspension of disbelief in my opinion and not whether the story makes sense per se. Even if your system is completely bonkers and makes no sense “objectively,” if you write it in such a way the audience doesn’t care and enjoys the story, does it matter if the system made no sense to begin with? But my disbelief was not suspended in Episode 14 up until the moment MW dropped the knife and decided not to kill CS. As you excellently summarized, the story went off the rails to me as well with behavior from the characters that either made no sense, were not likeable, or too convenient for the plot.
The best scene for me in the first half was when MW imagined herself killing CS, which fit with how she’d growed and changed so far, but still had internal conflicts and baggage. I thought the episode would’ve been her pondering whether CS is CM, and whether she should kill him or not, but guess she went temporarily crazy thanks to MG intentionally and unnecessarily being ambiguous.
My take is a little different because I believe that Mago 1 CONFIRMED the CS/CM duality.
Specifically,
1. Mago 1 tells Manwol that she KNOWS that MW met CM.
2. Mago 1 tells MW – You can’t avoid it. That person IS already next to you.
Viki has this as “has been” rather than “is”. I think the present tense is more correct.
3. When MW asks “Did I finally get to see the man i’ve Hated for over a thousand years in the form of the person whom I’ve finally found love with?”
And Mago replies “I’m also curious what you see there. Whether you see GCM and extinguish yourself or see GCS and receive redemption, that is your choice.”
1 This confirms what MW sensed during their embrace.
2 A lie. CM is already back to being a firefly, and is in a glass jar at Ye Olde Shoppe.
3 Except that we know CS is just CS, just as Mago does.
My reaction to this scenes was – why is Mago 1 lying? I did not see Mago 1as being even remotely reasonable, even given that their statements are supposed to be Delphic, even given that we’ve already been told humans need to do their own work.
I saw MW’s reaction being perfectly in character, though more suitable for a rebellious spite filled teenager. From the start I thought Mago was scamming MW into moving on in a win-win (for the goddesses) scenario … getting MW to literally empty her grudges by creating an evil doppelgänger spirit was an interesting way to spin the amusement park sequence, and get her ready to move on.
As for JW being weak, the point of CS getting thrown around by JW was to scam JW into throwing away the pin with MW’s evil spirit. Having thrown it away JW is no match for the Reaper.
I personally thought the interesting part was Mago 4 asking (MW looking completely listless while telling Mago 4 she had emptied all of her grudges into her doppelgänger evil spirit) MW – who are you without your grudges?
The answer to come in the next two episodes…
Since you guys like random intellectual tangents, I was thinking about how an a big influence on how reincarnation works in the show is Buddhism, such as the 49 days, or the idea of rebirth as a lower life form and paying off your karmic debt to work your way up. A departure from the traditional understanding is that vengeful ghosts turn to ash. The show implies these ghosts cease to exist, but in traditional Buddhist thought they would be reborn in so-called hell realms. It’s not like the Abrahamic hell in that it doesn’t last forever, and you’ll eventually pay off the “debt,” but it lasts so long it feels forever.
One interpretation of the hell realm is that it is not an actual place, but a state of mind. You are so consumed by negative thoughts and emotions that in your next life, that’s all there is to you. In other words, you damn yourself, like how MW chooses in episode 14 (albeit thanks to MG being annoying and plot convenience) to be a dick and kill CS without thinking things through at first.
Another realm of existence are hungry ghosts. It’s better than hell or as an animal, as a lighter “punishment”. You are also driven by emotions to end up in this state, particularly some sort of craving or desire, or baggage. Pretty much most of the ghosts in the story (who aren’t vengeful?) could fit in this category. While MW isn’t dead per se, if we interpret these as a state of mind, then she’s sort of a hungry ghost too, one who is craving a variety of things such as an end to her existence (until CS shows up), vengeance on CM, etc. Like with the hell realm, the hungry ghosts bring this on themselves. (Depending on who you ask, hungry ghosts aren’t the same thing as ghosts per se (with the latter being an intermediary step between rebirth and the former an actual state of rebirth) but anyways.)
A different but not necessarily conflicting interpretation of rebirth, one popular back then and now, is that it’s all a bureaucracy. After death you go wait in line, fill out paperwork, be seen by some bureaucrats and judges who decide your fate and how you’re reborn. Ghosts and the supernatural are also subject to these – a humorous 18th century Chinese story has a ghost of a woman wronged by her husband who can’t move to his new house to continue haunting him until a sympathetic living official files some paperwork to the otherworldly officials to help her apply for a ghost passport.
As part of the reincarnation process, in some of these stories, after the officials decide your fate, you’re supposed to drink water that will make you forget your previous life instead of crossing water. In one story, the dead person was a famous scholar, so the official in charge of overseeing his drinking the water was a fan and wanted to chat with him. The dead scholar discreetly dumped the water on the ground while the official was distracted, and as a result when the scholar was reborn he remembered his past life.
In the story right now, Mago and the Grim Reaper fulfill the role of these otherworldly officials as investigator, prosecutor, and judge, but also to an extent MW and even the hotel staff as well. In the old stories, living people or ghosts could be selected to become otherworldly officials if they were deemed virtuous or capable enough, or for other reasons. There are stories where for example an arrogant guy’s all “the world sucks, but I know what’s right” and the otherworldly officials go to them and are like “if you think you’re so good, why don’t you join us / judge a case we’re handling right now?” In a way, MW is like this as she (unknowingly) challenges MG in episode 1, and is chosen to be the inn’s new owner.
Lastly, back to the issue of rebirth and death, there are many stories of near death encounters where someone dies but returns to life due to some sort of misunderstanding or accident – a person with a similar name was supposed to die and the officials made a mistake, the person wandered off into the wrong place, etc. Sometimes nothing happens to this person after, other times they get fatally ill and die. In one story, a man has a similar name as a notorious criminal and is wrongly brought down to be punished and endures torture; eventually, another otherworld official audits the whole thing and fixes matters, but the protagonist was tortured for too long and dies after he comes back alive – however, the auditing official, to make up for this, allows the protagonist to be reborn as a human with lots of fortune and good luck.
Anyways, this was sort of a side tangent, but I thought it’d be some nice info to share. My understanding of these is based more on Chinese and Vietnamese Buddhism and Confucianism, but given the heavy Chinese influence on Korean culture and religion, I believe much of it might still apply as a potential source of influence on the show or ideas on how the story could be resolved.
(As an aside, often in these old stories, sleeping with a ghost was said to be pleasurable but dangerous, as the energies are incompatible and the ghost would leech off the life essence of the human and depending on the story possibly cause them illness or even death. We got something similar to that when Bellhop told Intern their relationship couldn’t last due to their different states of being. In a way, though MW isn’t dead per se, there’s also a similar dynamic with her and CS.)
*ON INTIMATE NOTES
I just want to pin point the scene where Man Wol slowly walked in the room and gently lay her head on CS’s shoulder, my heart melted and ached for Man Wol because it clearly dawned on me how tired she was all this time. 1300 years of waiting, hating, and living in “hell” but then bang! After a brief final closure with the Captain, she emptied it all out. Imagine an adrenaline rush that had just worn off. There’s relief but then you’re weak in the knees.
And CS? I love him even more this time. He’s indeed a refuge where. CS is like a lover, a bestfriend, and a soulmate wrapped in one person. He just waited there and he didn’t even say a word. Really, silence is golden. He’s just there. Presence at its finest.
Lastly, the way they held hands and the gentle yet firm presses, that’s also something. I find this scene far more intimate than all their kissing scenes.
Typo errors. Lol
*laid
*He’s indeed a refuge where MW can go for a good rest.
Thanks for sharing, @scholar-gentry.
One of the posters here mentioned the significance of the number 49 because Chansung was supposedly the 49th manager. He/she thought it was an appropriate number since he was going to lead her to her rebirth.
As for Manwol being a hungry “ghost” or “undead,” is that why she’s a foodie? lol. Displacing her thirst for revenge into something socially acceptable like eating chicken hearts, pig’s liver and cow intestines? lol.
+1000 points.
Just by holding her, he already told her a hundred thousand things with his mouth closed. 🙂
@packmule3 Yes, 49 is important! It’s not canonical for all branches or followers of East Asian Buddhism (my father for instance thinks it’s bogus or at least not literal) but it’s common. When my grandfather died years ago for example the family did prayers every day for 49 days when he presumably finished reincarnating. Like that poster, I immediately recognized the connection when it popped up, to the point it came off as one of those “Symbolism DUH” moments – CS is the person who helps her complete rebirth, whether this rebirth is literal or a spiritual/psychological rebirth.
As for MW being a foodie, I actually think of that as I was focused on her emotion roller coaster in episode 14, but it’s a great point. In traditional depictions of hungry ghosts, they often crave things like food or drink, but are never truly satisfied, and this is why they are always suffering. For instance they might be depicted with a tiny mouth the size of a pinhole, so they can’t stuff down the food they want and are always hungry for more. With MW, we could expand on this and say her materialistic exterior – the pricey cars, super extra sense of fashion, fancy makeup, champagne, yachts, etc. – goes along with the food if we’re interpreting her as a hungry ghost. She craves and desires all this stuff, but it never satisfies her deep down no matter how much she has, and is either a way for her to repress or as a symbolism for the depths of her true desires like turning the captain into bloody pulp. It is thanks to CS that she lets go of these cravings (like when he trolled her into saying she liked him more than her red car).
@scholar-Gentry. Thank you for some interesting reading!
@Flying Tool I like your take on scams.
The MG-MW exchange was certainly a lie. And your view of how the amusement park curse idea is re-hashed in making another evil spirit fits. We often go back to the same old methods.
That MW, while being uncertain, opted to empty her grudges in that others-destruct and self-destruct way, without thinking of any other methods, is unconscionable.
This morning when I thought of it, I considered it as MW going for suicide, with CS as collateral damage. MG had allowed her to be pushed to such a point of desperation, that the attraction of oblivion outshone being loved and loving.
Yes also to the great scam of CS. He was able to get under JW’s skin in the past and once again… similar methods again. And I love how CS never goes into a dangerous fight without calling out the troops. I didn’t expect him to bring out all of the hotel trio as well as GR. I didn’t think they were necessary for the apprehension of JW but it was fun!
Yes, also to the question(s) … what does MW contain, what is her identity, how will she choose to live now that she has no more grudges.
Heh! Now that I’ve emptied myself of the rants, I can enjoy the blogs.
@The scholar-gentry
Thanks for all that. I’m living in a place where a season of burning ‘material goods’ to ‘feed’ hungry ghosts has just been completed. I have to say the parallels you noted with traditional Chinese religion are pretty apt.
The state-of-mind thing definitely fits the state of MW. I am still sore that MG puts in place a life-saving raft, only to puncture it when MW is on it. It might have been a small hole and she might get to safety before the raft gives out, but the only MG who was out to come to MW was MG4.
About CS’s being there for MW. It was a much needed scene. It was a relief to see MW just being a tired soul and needing a shoulder. CS has consistently kept his promises, and he has consistently chosen the right thing to do, where it comes to MW. Yes, his waiting, his acceptance without push or pull, their just sitting together hand-in-hand was more than merely romantic, it spoke of what true friendship and love is.
@GB Yeah if we connect these as states of mind, ie hell = anger/hatred and hungry ghost = greed/desire, then MW is “in” the hungry ghost “realm” for a good part of the story, until old wounds start to resurface and she starts to drag herself into hell. Which I suppose recalls her statement at the end of episode 8, if I remember correctly, that what she has is hell – because she is trapping those emotions with herself. Or something.
That quiet moment is definitely much more touching than all the other kissy kissy goo goo stuff you might see in another drama. Having a relatively chaste and mellow relationship (despite the craziness of everything else in the story) might drag down another story, but in HDL it really works and is quite touching.
Dear @TheScholarGentry, thanks for a great post!!!. I am a former Vajrayana practitioner and didn’t see that Man-Wol is a Hungry Ghost. Perharps once her grudge is over and she is emptied she will be prepared to be filled with good relationships and love?.
Another thing is that this show is about the shapes that Love takes:
1.- Philos (or love between equals – Friendship or Brotherhood): like Chang-Sung always caring for his friend Sanchez.
2.- Eros (love that desires and hurts – like romantic relations): Mi-Ra and Detective Yeon-Woo is a good example. Mira loves in a very narcisistic way. Also Man-Wol and Chung-Myung (their shared memories show flirtiness but not understanding).
3.- Agape (the love that gives): like Chang-Sung with Man-Wol at the beginning. He trusts her and believes in her. Also accepts her worst side (like when he literally embraced the worst of her to avoid Mi-Ra being cursed, but which its ultimate goal is to save Man-Wol’s soul). It helped her to open-up, to trust again.
In these last episodes we have been able to see Man-Wol and Chang Sung’s love to evolve into something more complete that have yearning (eros), respect and closeness (philos) and sacrifice (Agaphe).
Hope to read from all you soon!!! =)
@FGB4877 I do agree Hungry Ghost is a stretch, and I was sort of spitballing for the sake of theorizing; the realms don’t line up neatly with the worldbuilding obviously. MW being in her own “hell” = Hate, anyways, is more fitting, and I do think a point the series raises is that even if we are wronged, it is the grudges and hatred we have that will bring us to hell if they aren’t kept in check, which is a very Buddhist argument in my opinion. (BTW, my mother is still quite a devoted Vajrayana practitioner, coincidentally, though I was raised with and am familiar with all major strands of Buddhism.)
I don’t really feel like MW’s emptied overall, at least not yet – otherwise, she would’ve emptied her love for CS – but she is now empty of the negative emotions that contributed to her personal hell. I do hope MW and CS’ relationship grows even more now that she’s better. With all the talk about CS paying a price, perhaps it’s his time to need healing and understanding where he fits in the puzzle.
Well @TheSholarGentry , I hope so. He has given his best and was as steadfast as any human could ever be (BTW, he even tasted the only venom that can destroy Agaphe: your loved one trying actively and consciously to harm you).
And yes, it is his time to heal. Hope Sanchez, Mi-Ra (who is an ass but not malevolent) and the Hotel de la Luna foursome helps him through his grief. For him to be healed after all of this would be like the Zen monk arriving to the market after being Illuminated =) .
Hope to read you soon!!!
Episode 14 confused me as to what exactly MW should be learning. I felt exactly the same way as you, @GB. You expressed that very well. I must admit to losing some interest in the drama this week, and your rant clarified for me why I was feeling that way.
I’m always interested in the writers and what they’re trying to tell us and up till now that’s been a treat from the HS. But this episode has eroded my faith we were in capable hands. The hands are still clever, but chaos and carelessness have entered this well-conceived and executed story. I had my suspicions a few episodes back when we got a hint the captain wasn’t all bad (though I completely agree with pkm3), because suddenly MW’s 1300 year wait or vigil became meaningless to her and to me.
So while the ending might be happy, sad, hopefully satisfying to most watchers, HDL has lost its luster already for me, and I hope doesn’t unspool in the last two episodes.
@scholar-gentry, nice post. They are also using western ideas. Following up on allusions made this a much more interesting production.
Btw, I mentioned the 49 managers in a post on the second episode as possibly related to 49 days, but was told it was a mistranslation. Should have read 99 managers. Pffft! A little deflated.
@FGB4877 While I hope MW won’t be gone for too long, I do agree CS has a good enough support system to help him. It’s nice seeing how the hotel staff went from indifference to genuine care for him, and how Sanchez isn’t just the comic relief guy and has a strong friendship with CS. MR is an ass indeed but a harmless one – in another drama she would’ve been the bitchy jealous ex who makes things worse, but here she moves on from CS quickly. In turn, once MW returns, CS will be even stronger.
@barbrey The lesson for MW is that she needs CS to run in and almost kill himself because of MG being intentionally vague or else she’s shipped to hell. Messes with the idea that they’re protecting each other.
I think the three big slip ups in episode 14 were 1) MG was ambiguous in a way that misled MW into thinking CS was CM; 2) MW went full asshole and threw out 13 episodes of character and romantic development out the window; 3) they tried to connect this to the serial killer subplot too hard.
If I wrote the episode, I would’ve had:
1. MG is ambiguous, but doesn’t mislead MW, ie something like “Only you can figure out whether CS is CM yourself” so it is still MW’s choice to make without manipulating her.
2. MW goes to see CS fight with serial killer, hesitates and doesn’t protect him and he’s only saved with Grim Reaper’s intervention, though she still feels conflicted.
3. CS later confronts MW about this, but realizes her struggle, and tells her to kill him if she really wants, and she can’t go through with it. Episode proceeds as before.
I’m not saying I’m a great writer but I think they could’ve shown MW’s internal conflict in a more nuanced manner. Her imaginary sequence of stabbing CS for instance was great at this. Her being a dick and giving Jiwon the cursed charm with little guilt, not so much.
Anyways, thanks for clearing up the 49/99 days thing. That’s really a pity if it was actually 99 days then!
And yeah it’s fun seeing the potential allusions to Western mythology, which I wouldn’t have noticed without this blog and its commenters. Combining that with Eastern mythology has been fun to watch.
@The ScholarGentry , I agree an your points.
I would also add Chung-Myung actively taking the decision to eradicate the rebels with a heavy heart, since his main duty is to his fatherland. Then, when Princess Mi-Ra is dead I would let him die like he did since, well… he did his best and that was his final decision: to die at the hands of his lover.
An intimate choice from a person who gave his best for his country: his swan son one of personal freedom.
Elegant and still swoony.
Writer’s turn of events makes him Captain BrightButt indeed.
@The scholar-gentry
What I was going to post in DB is that I liked the coming around of the hotel staff… not only were they indifferent but they actively tried to get him mad or dead in Ep 5, and pretended they were glad that he was safe.
They plotted again when Rm 13 ghost didn’t manage to get him: to have him go to a haunted house or meet with a ghost of a killer. But in this episode we come full circle, so to speak.
Once again CS was facing a vengeful ghost who is a killer, but this time the hotel staff are far from indifferent. They take an active part in keeping him safe. We note that all 3 of them came, perhaps because all 3 felt culpable in his near ‘driven-to-madness’ fiasco, and were making restitution. Anyway, I felt it was a good resolution for that horrible bit of evil that they had planned, against one who had considered them colleagues and had trusted them!
The above makes me shake my head at the 3 doing the slow-motion stride, as if they are bad-ass heroes with power to wield (like the Goblin and Grim Reaper of Goblin). They were fun to watch, and it was heart-warming, but otherwise an unnecessary sequence to add to the scene, because having Grim Reaper would have been sufficient!
@FGB4877 For me, the problem with CM is that his story was building up over the entire series, so it would have been hard to ‘fix’ it by this point. That aside, I agree with your implication that CM was indecisive and inept, and played along when he could have taken responsibility for his actions and shown willingness to genuinely sacrifice, in contrast to CS. Your rewriting of CM would’ve made him a much better tragic character, definitely.
@GB Since I barely watch Kdramas as I mentioned in another post, I didn’t catch the Goblin reference and was confused at the slow-mo even though it was funny lol.
But good point with Ghost 13. I’d forgotten they considered other options to screw CS over. I also recall the scene later when CS indirectly tells Seo-Hee he won’t take their shit and scares her – and scaring Seo-Hee is not an easy thing to do.
The scene early in episode 12 when they thought he was dead also shows their change too, as the three staff members were upset at first but were later greatly relieved when he turns out to be okay.
Same here @barbrey. I should have been done with both episodes by now but I’m still psyching myself. Lol. Are we all feeling like Manwol? Are we channeling her? After meeting her “nemesis” what’s next for her and for us?
The Hong sisters have got to learn how to finish on the upswing.
Oh were you the one who mentioned 49 managers? Are we back to 99 again? Lol. Now I’m stuck with that song in my head, “99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.
Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall.” 😂
So, a question…scene with YS (YW) in the cab, tears in his eyes. As @packmule3 revealed, YS “sees” severed relationships of the past. After the drink with the moon tree flower and MW seeing his past, what does YS know with his mind vs with his heart? Why the tears?
Given that YS already had some special senses, did his mind see their past – YW and MW and CM? Or just his heart?