Every so often, I pull out my seven-year old “Fate vs Destiny” sermon, lol, and rewrite it to fit the situation. @k-drama newbie’s post reminded me that I haven’t done so in a while.
She said:
After watching the episodes, I’m starting to learn to accept that they might not going to be together even though it was fate that brought them together yet a choice must be made by both of them to choose to be together in Switzerland… (hence the name of her company, Seri’s Choice
Its amazing to witness how deeply their love has progressed despite the unimaginable obstacles and life threatening situations. I have been told that I’m rough around the edges and I admit that I have been crying
Do you still believe in destiny???
A few of my longtime readers here will attest that I’m not a very romantic person. I was going to trademark, “I don’t ship couples, I ship scripts.”
When I watch a kdrama for critical review, I don’t dissect it for the romantic feelings. Instead, I want to understand worldview of the writer…and by proxy, the director who translates the writer’s words into pictures. I like to extract the ideas they’re both trying to communicate in the comedy or love story so I can determine how their views dovetail with mine, and whether their message is relevant, enlightening or plain junk.
Now, over the years I’ve been watching kdramas, I’ve noticed that there’s a tendency by writers to mix up fate and destiny. Certainly, I’ve seen subbers and viewers “guilty” of interchanging fate with destiny. That’s why I wrote this commentary on fate and destiny.
I’ve often read comments like,
“fate plays an important role in a person’s life”
“if two people are fated for each other, they’ll bring them together no matter what,” and
“fate throws people together in the weirdest places.”
In these examples, the word “fate” is correctly used. If we were to replace the word “fate” with “destiny” in those sentences, then we’ll see that they don’t make sense.
You see, there’s a subtle distinction between fate and destiny. Please remember this when you see me using these words in this blog. 🙂
Fate is something you have NO control over. You cannot change it. It’s pre-set and pre-determined for you. It’s been given to you. It’s been “ordained,” to use a word with religious connation.
Fate shapes who you were in the past, and who are in the present. Many people also believe that fate determines who they’ll be in the future. Conversely, it’s said that your fate is also shaped by you, for example, by your birth, family, physical abilities, mental acumen, economic status, sex, country, race, and a host of other things.
In Western philosophy, fate is usually linked to resignation or passive acceptance.
Although the concept of fate ties in well with the “han” mentality that I mentioned last week, from the Western point of view, “fate” has a connotation that is generally pessimistic and negative.
That’s why we have words like “fatal,” “ill-fated,” “fatalism,” and “fatalistic.”
There’s a sense of being helplessly and mortal, of looming disaster, and of unavoidable death in the word “fate.” For instance, you say that “The rebels were fated to die in battle” or “He was fated to live in poverty.”
Here, in the case of CLoY, fate is often credited for the accidental encounters of the main characters: Seri and JungHyuk were fated to meet on the bridge in Switzerland; Seri was fated to crash-land on him in the DMV; Seri and Alberto were fated to encounter each other at the hotel; Alberto and Dan were fated to meet at the airport, on the road, and on the rooftop.
In short, fate is something that happens to you, without you doing anything to make it happen.
In contrast to fate, destiny is what you DO with this fate of yours.
You can control destiny. You can change it. You can mold it. You can forge it. Above all, you CHOOSE your own destiny.
What differentiates destiny from fate is free will. You have a free will to make your own destiny.
To achieve your destiny, you’ll have to do your best, strive for your goals, defy your naysayers, triumph over adversities, and fight for what you believe in, even against all odds. There’s a sense of persistence and, more importantly, HOPE, in the word, “destiny.”
That’s why we say, “He’s destined for greatness” but we don’t say, “He’s destined to become a loser.” Also, a presidential candidate can feel that he’s “destined to win” the election. But he’s never “fated” to win the election, as if all he’s required to do is sit on his ass, and wait for fate to deliver him the victory.
In the English language, there is an important distinction between acceptance and non-acceptance of suffering which is captured in the two words “fate” and “destiny.”
To me, it’s fate (and not destiny) that we’ve been watching throughout CLoY. We see fate conspiring to bring Seri and JungHyuk together in Switzerland and in North Korea.
We see them resigned to their fates whenever they said their numerous goodbye. Ha! This kid is right.
How many times have they said goodbye to each other only to have one “fateful” event messing up – or intervening in – their plans?
We see JungHyuk and Seri meeting up randomly on a street in Gangnam. That’s fate, too.
The writer very much wanted us to know that their encounter was fate’s handiwork since all JungHyuk had to go on to find her was an vague address, “Cheongdam-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul.”
And now in Episode 13, on the bridge, we see them bewildered and enthralled by all their accidental encounters. In their minds, these coincidences reinforce the idea that they were fated to meet each other.
To be quite honest, I find it frustrating this writer conflates fate and destiny. For one, many viewers become confused, too. For another, a bitch like me is too smart to ignore the difference.
Let’s consider the footsteps.
In ordinary situations, to take a step, like here:
and here:
and here, when he took a thousand steps to reach her bedside,
to take a step is symbolically to take control of one’s destiny.
That’s why I discussed JungHyuk’s footstep at length in another post. Back then, I thought that his first step would signify a pivotal decision to bridge the distance between them. Ha. I didn’t expect however this yoyo relationship: he’s here today, gone tomorrow; he’s here today, gone tomorrow; he’s here today, gone tomorrow…
Remember the famous quote by Neil Armstrong when he walked on the moon? He said, “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.”
Fate didn’t make him land on the moon. Hard work, science and technology, and bravery got him to the moon. Taking a first step is almost always viewed as monumental because it signals a conscious effort to start the journey. It’s about walking towards your destiny.
But here in this kdrama, the act of taking a step forward is followed by a step back. JungHyuk would stride confidently forward towards Seri, only to pull back from her later because fate has determined that his life stays in North Korea and hers in South Korea.
That’s why @k-drama newbie’s question struck me as topical. “Do you still believe in destiny???”
My answer is hahahaha…no.
Definitely not in the WRONG sense that this writer has been depicting destiny.
When JungHyuk took a step to cross over the boundary, it was only to seal their goodbye with a kiss. He was resigned to life without her. He was accepting fate. It’s a fact that he wouldn’t have followed her had there not been a threat on her life.
When he took a step to hug the crying Seri, it was only to comfort her. He was still resigned to leaving her after he accomplished his task. He was telling her how he would spend her birthday for years to come just being grateful that she was alive somewhere. In other words, he’d already accepting fate. Plus, it’s a fact that he wouldn’t have stayed longer had there not been a new threat on her life.
And when he rushed to her bedside because she was calling to him to be beside her, I’m sorry @arihsi, but it wasn’t at all very difficult for me to detach myself from the whole emotional angst of that scene.
Why?
Because I’d seen the epilogue.
I saw that note he left on Seri’s recorder in the hospital. He wrote “Listen to this when you can’t sleep.”
And I saw his cooking instruction on how to cook noodles. These yellow post-its tell me that when he went after Chulgang, he was already saying goodbye to her again.
I also heard his long monologue while he pottered around their apartment.
“You have a lot of medication. Don’t take medication when you can’t sleep. How about listening to this piece instead? You said that after hearing this piece, you wanted to live again. What you told me brought comfort to my past. I feel like I want to live again. So how about we live today as if we will meet the next day?”
“Make sure you eat, and get a good night’s sleep. How about we go on with our days, pretend that we can meet again the next day, and live a happy life? And when living your life becomes fun and you become happy, even if you forget about me one day, I will be okay.”
His monologue is one long farewell. After all that drama in the hospital,
he was accepting his allotted fate once more. He was getting ready to leave her one last time. He wasn’t going to stay UNLESS fate handed him another golden opportunity to stay with her.
Hello, NIS? Can you give him a reason to stay? Like, detain him or something?
To me, it’s frustrating that time and time again, whenever our hero and heroine are about to perform a climactic action, or a game changer, it turns out anti-climactic. They’re only PUSHED BY FATE. The impetus for their great feats of love is nothing more than fate. They have no choice in the matter.
Take for instance the squad’s mission to rescue her.
As impressive as this whole mission was, JungHyuk wouldn’t have been forced to ask them to stay hadn’t Seri’s life been in danger for the umpteenth time. They had no choice but to defend her.
Call of duty = call of fate
Bu I mentioned this in a prior post, didn’t I? I said there was no choice when JungHyuk took a bullet for her, just like she didn’t really have choice when she stayed by his side at the hospital.
So….here we go again. Seri’s had zero choice again when she took a bullet for him. Similarly, JungHyuk and his squad had no choice but to stay near her while she was at the hospital.
What most viewers see:
What I see:
Sigh. We’ve been teased about “Seri’s choice,” but all I see is a pushover. The main characters are all easily defeated by fate.
“Hi, I’m Fate. Bow down to me.”
This pattern of accepting fate leaves me frustrated because a) I expect more self-determination from adults, and b) I can’t accept that Seri and JungHyuk are mere puppets of their fate.
But I understand that perhaps what I demanding for in this kdrama is a tall order for this writer.
To wit, I want the writer to show me a couple who’s unequivocally invested in their destiny together. I’m having no more of this nebulous, I’ll-love-you-from-afar, promissory type of relationship. Tragic pawns are not how I envisioned my main characters. I want them masters of their own destiny.
Although I find the story of this kdrama still entertaining, I’m been chafing under this writer’s world outlook and her life philosophy. I disagree with her.
I’m sure many of you have seen the Serenity prayer written by theologian Reinhold Niebuhr. It goes like this:
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”
Things I cannot change = fate
Things I can change = destiny
To know the difference = smart bitches
That has always been something that bothered me that they want their destiny to be together yet there is no plan of action of making that happen (from either)–this was mentioned in other posts as well. Maybe that’ll change in 15 and 16–*cross fingers* (not b/c I’m lying lol). It’s always irked me that JH professes his love and tells her his dream destiny, yet he always sets it up that he is going to bounce. It’s like “Hey, I want to be w/ you forever, but I’ll probably have to leave you. Soooo you’ll be okay, right?” How is anybody suppose to respond to that or prepare for that??! This is probably why SR cries so hard when he leaves b/c she feels like he believes his destiny is to leave her. JH also flip flops on his stance on her dating when he is gone. If I was him the condolence period is forever.
It feels like the writer is setting up their situation like the small pot w/ water on top of the larger pot–I think it’s Ep.10. Did the mother-son finally get reunited in heaven? Is SR & JH finally going to be together at the end? I hope we are reading more into it then it is. Happily ever after, please.
So much internal angst going into 15 & 16.
I knew you were bothered about this, John L. 🙂 You mentioned it earlier in another open thread. And I agree: there was no “action item” to make their objective feasible.
And I was bothered too but I couldn’t put my finger on it till I saw the whole hospital scene and I got it. It was the mixed signals.
He wanted to tell her that he’d like to marry her but he wanted her drunk so she’d forget he said it. (Yeah right)
He told her that he was worried about her and he was her bodyguard and he loved her. BUT he prepared all the posts-it notes and he was okay if they never met again. (huh?)
It was a yoyo relationship.
One step forward, then one (or even two steps) back. He’d show his heart, then he’d pull away. She can’t die on him, but he can’t live with her. There are so many contradictions that this romance of theirs is giving me a headache…and I’m JUST a viewer. lol.
In real life, this isn’t going to work out. If I had a daughter like Seri, I’d say it’s simple:
If he thinks she’s his destiny, then they should work something out.
If he thinks she’s his ill-fated lover, then they should call it a day and move on. Spare themselves the heartache.
But if I take out love from the equation, and I look at this whole dilemma simply as their approach or mindset in life, then I say that he’s risk-averse. He doesn’t want to go against cosmic fate and its earthly constructs, like NIS, family, custom, government, etc.
Wow. Thank you for your definition of the two, and I think you are completely right. Nice to think I may qualify as a smart bitch. But agreement on definition is where we part. I think this couple did everything right so far as how they choose to shape their destiny. I think it isn’t some weakness or deficiency that they don’t so call “fight for their love.” They both came to the same conclusion each and every time as to what needs to be done because from their point of view, this is a problem with no solution without extra help from fate and actions by others which they have no way or right to demand. They have no business to fall in love to begin with…in the sense that it was a dangerous love. I guess one might view their decisions as noble idiocy…but ain’t so idiotic if the stakes means finding out sweet JH mom is sent to the Gulag, or U Pill got executed. They protect their love by never compromising…which means not being selfish, and they inspire all around them to do the same. The system come at them harder with cruelty, and everyone fights back with more sweetness and love. Watching all these characters making decisions like this time after time is just so hopeful.
I watched other shows by these two actors, and other Korean dramas, usually I am with you, bloody hell, tell those stupid mothers to take a hike and let the couple be, or whatever silly problem they are facing. Despite great acting I can’t take them too seriously. This show is different because they picked a heck of an enemy. I want a solution of course, but I would be disappointed if these two selfishly take it.
Thanks for the insightful post. You have articulated my “fatigue” in this story so, so well. I’d root for people who fight for their hope/dream and put in the effort to have at least a say in their destiny. There’d be no regret even if one does not succeed after putting in his/her best effort.
Hope the last two episodes will lift my fatigue.
Josie, NO. I read you the first time around when you said this and I ignored you, purposely, because I was too tired to explain the details.
Now, read what I wrote again. I was calling out the writer here because she’s presenting a false dichotomy. It’s not door A: stay in Korea or door B: leave for North Korea.
Of course, there’s always a third, fourth, even fifth alternative. As it stands, his father had already thought about 2 or 3 alternatives how to explain JH’s disappearance. I suggested this earlier, didn’t I? I said the father could make it a matter of national security that JH go to SK on a mission to retrieve ChulGang. But now, it seems it’s also become an economic/trade issue to retrieve Seri because she’s an heiress. lol.
Notice: The writer is setting it up that our main characters have no choice in their romance in order to amp up our emotional tears and raise our emotional stakes. And stupid viewers will fall for this trick each time.
Nice try, but no cigar.
What I’m suggesting here is to stand back a bit and look at the whole picture and what the writer is trying to do. There are so many options for the couple. We’ve proposed a few in another post — the post about Switzerland.
It’s never the end of the world if JH doesn’t go back to NK. It’s only a delusion that the writer wants us to agonize over so some viewers would become all weepy about the drama. 🙂 Don’t fall for it.
Yes, I noticed that there was a general “fatigue” when I was reading comments.
It’s because we’ve been going around in circles but in concentric circles. It was the same theme: “oh woe is me! it’s hard to leave you!”
First, we had the failed boat transfer. They expressed regret but it was okay.
Second, the crazy paragliding stunt. She said goodbye but he jumped with her.
Third, we had the air travel where she was going to be an athlete. He didn’t want to hug her, but he ended up taking a bullet for her.
Fourth, we had the hospital stay. She still could have made it to the airport then but she had to donate blood.
Fifth, the blizzard encounter. She told him to go because she was going with Alberto but she chased after him.
Sixth, her kidnapping on Christmas Day. She told him she wasn’t going to say goodbye but she wished him well on the phone.
Seventh, the border-crossing. He hesitated to cross the line till he DID cross the line. lol.
Eighth, the Episode 13th gang fight with ChulGang. They thought she was going to die and how final can death be?
Ninth, Episode 14th secret farewell thing with the sticky notes.
Come on now, writer! This drama has been one long goodbye.
It’s tedious because we know that ultimately, they’re going to stay together anyway. This writer has never written an unhappy ending or has separated couple in the end (unlike the Hong sisters, lol).
Here in this forum and elsewhere, folks have thought pretty hard and come up with a multitude of paths to a satisfactory solution, i.e., being together. So, there are possibilities. Would’ve been great if the writer has given us a glimpse of the two characters thinking together and exploring those possibilities earnestly. If I remember correctly, in earlier episodes, we were given the impression that JH didn’t have many experiences losing and SR does not like losing. Why then would they be okay with this we-won’t-be-together-but-we’ll-be-fine existence? It’s exhausting.
Okay, I’ll stop my rambling here and listen to your wisdom.
@packmule3 Love that serenity prayer… although I find myself rather lacking in the wisdom part.
True. True. They were both competitive.
I’m hoping that ChulGang is already dead so we don’t have to deal with him in Episode 15. Of course, I’m guessing that he was the one who got shot, not JH.
We still have JH’s father’s issue to deal with, and the return of the squad, so I want ChulGang out of the way as soon as possible. He’s done his job already, and now we have to deal with the other corrupt officers.
PM3, totally agree with you. At this point, I am so pissed at the writer for treating us like idiots that I just want to tell JH and Seri to never meet up again. It has become annoying instead of endearing. I mean I know the danger in NK, but at least freakin have a discussion – is there any possibility for us to be together – and there are, maybe at the end they are not do-able, but they’d at least tried. They take multiple bullets for each other but can’t even discuss the obvious? They can literally have a China rendezvous every weekend and it only takes a two hour flight.
Fate vs Destiny – between the two, I see JH needing to make the decision to make a life with Seri. The only obstacle preventing him from leaving NK is this familial duty towards his father. After his brother’s death, he resigned himself to a life of sacrifice, giving up his love of music to find out who killed his brother. The father may be the one to sit him down & set him free from these family ties. Or he may confront the father and fight for his happiness. Inevitably, it will be JH’s move.
This won’t be a happy post so get your tissues ready.
Do you guys remember episode 5 where the village women found out that JH had 2 fiances? They went to JH/SR’s place to have DP and Beer to console her. In order to calm them down she tries to explain w/ Romeo and Juliet, but references Gyeonu & Jiknyeo for them to understand. I looked up the Gyeonu & Jiknyeo forklore …
“Jiknyeo (Weaver Girl) was the granddaughter of Haneunim (Celestial Emperor), who was known for her weaving skills and diligence. The Celestial Emperor loved her very much and arranged her to be wed to the cowherd Hadong from the opposite side of the Eunhasu (Silver River). Weaver Girl and Cowherd, however, became lazy in the sweetness of their honeymoon, and this greatly angered the Celestial Emperor, who separated them to live on opposite sides of the Silver River, allowing them to meet only once a year, on Chirwolchilseok (Seventh Day of the Seventh Lunar Month). When the Silver River kept them from uniting even on Chirwolchilseok, the crows and magpies of the terrestrial world flew up to the sky and formed a bridge for them by lining up head-to-head. This bridge came to be called Ojakgyo (Bridge Formed by Crows) and it is believed that each year, after the Seventh Day of the Seventh Lunar Month, all the crows and magpies fly back to earth with their heads turned bald from constructing the bridge. Rain on Chirwolchilseok (Chilseoku) is believed to be the reunited couple’s tears of joy, while rain on the following day is believed to be the parting couple’s tears of sorrow.”
The relevance is eerie. SR [Jiknyeo] and JH [cowherd]’s are being lazy by not being proactive of creating a destiny of being together, which causes them to be destined to be apart. The end could possibly be them separated, but being able to meet once a year (perhaps on SR’s birthday).
*Ugly girl cry*
Thank you very much for this insight. After I’ve finished watching episode 14, and am waiting anxiously for episode 15 to unfold, I wish and hope that the writer will make Se Ri & Jeong Hyeok to fight for their wants, that is to be together, not just resign to their fate.
This somehow reminds me of Invictus poem by William Ernest Henley of which I love; “I am the master of my fate; I am the captain of my soul.”
@ John L
Yes, that folklore. Thinking positively though, there’s still hope. Perhaps, in the last two episodes, JH and SR finally agree that enough is enough (i.e., fate) and that they’d take charge and pursue their destiny together. Seeing how hard they work, the “Celestial Emperor” would let them be together happily ever after. So the message here can eventually be a positive one. Just thinking out loud here.
Hmmm. Interesting, so what you are saying is that the writer is playing with our emotions on purpose and it is tiring plus insulting because they tricked us into expending emotional energy. You may be right, I don’t know. I always thought the idea of sending the couple to SK would be tiring, naturally it would be. I saw the alternative ending post about escaping to Switzerland and when they put the couple in SK I didn’t like it at first, “give me easy viewing please!!!” was my reaction because this means Seri is heading back to face her problems head on. To me, that’s why it’s tiring, to watch her do that, the scenes with the mom, confronting the brothers and the emptiness and loneliness of that life. Watching her work through it all is work for me because I can completely relate, that’s why it’s tiring. But the NK folks coming to her life plot line made it wonderful, that they must to leave is inevitable and it’s the right thing to do. What did JH say when she left NK? Don’t think about going to some scenic place and disappear? I agree with him, they shouldn’t run off either, that’s weakness. Is all this work worth it? I think that depends on what you want out of it.
I guess I am not as cynical about the intention of the writers…or more like I don’t care about their motives, what’s important to me is the journey not the outcome and that the writers stay true to the characters within the framework of events. I guess if they picked an easy alternative for the couple to be together, but honestly, how would that even work because the setup is such that there isn’t an easy alternative. Like I said they picked quite an enemy. It started off as a dangerous love, but that’s what makes it so cool. Easiest thing for JH to do was to kill Seri right off like he contemplated after he saved her at his gate, instead he goes to the kitchen and made noodles from scratch for her. That is the point no, love against all odds? But realities will hit you and when that happens, people do the best they can with what they’ve got. That is a story worth watching and learning from. I don’t watch K dramas much, I have seen some but it isn’t a thing for me. I had to look up the word trope, still don’t get it entirely. When I step back and look at the story and why I am watching this at all, it isn’t on the level of the writers and how much they entertained me, but how these love stories express human nature and illustrates to me how love works. I think they managed that quite well.
Yes, that Invictus poem. In my original post on Fate vs Destiny, I included that very poem.
I swapped it out for the Reinhold Niebuhr prayer. 🙂
Yes, I’ve heard of that folklore. Hmmm…didn’t I include that in one my post on tropes here?
Many kdramas like to reference to it. It is the Korean version of Romeo and Juliet. If you look up in the night sky and know your constellations, the Weaver girl’s star is the Vega star, while the Shepherd’s star is Altair. The Milky Way represents the river that separates the two.
Things I cannot change = fate
Things I can change = destiny
To know the difference = smart bitches
So cool! 😎 I love that prayer too. I can’t say I’m a smart bitch though. 😂
Thanks for this. No wonder my interest wasn’t as high anymore and it’s because of the goodbyes like you said and probably why I’m not as invested in it anymore. 😬 It tugged at my heart when she called him to say where are you but after that yeah his preparing to say goodbye again. It is a yo-yo. 😊
I’m with those who will work hard to get their destiny even if fate keeps blocking it.
I have no doubt this drama will have its happily ever after. Let’s see where it goes. ☺️
I’m watching “Dr Cutie” right now. Ep 15. I skipped through some scenes earlier.
You’re a smart bitch. 🙂
Even Hotel del Luna didn’t have these many tearful goodbye scenes — and Manwol was DYING. for heaven’s sake. lol.
The cow heard and weaver girl folklore is actually a Chinese folklore that got passed onto Korea. It is probably the most well known folklore to Chinese people and Chinese Valentine’s Day is the seventh day of the seventh month of the Lunar calendar when the star crossed lovers meet. China had a huge influence on Korea way back. The only other kdrama I finished watching was My Name is Kim Sam Soon; and during the mountain climbing scene Sam Soon asked if Hyun Bin’s character was the Monkey King and that’s a reference to the Chinese novel Journey to the West.
Even Hotel del Luna didn’t have these many tearful goodbye scenes — and Manwol was DYING. for heaven’s sake. lol.
Spot on! 😂😂😂
I still haven’t seen episode 17 of Dr Cutie 😭 When is it going to come? Maybe I’ll rewatch episode 15 and 16 or go on with the other drama, Find Yourself.
Yes, I’ve been waiting for Ep 17. too. I want to know how she forgave him since she didn’t accept the silver objects from him.
Smart bitches are also the ones to know what’s worth fighting for. Not fate,not destiny. Plain old practicality. Are we actually fighting for something sustainable or just a whimsy of our heart? Strictly adhering to discussion of this drama, even if they do fight, is it sustainable? What will he do wherever they move? Is it even possible to move anywhere for good given where he comes from? What will she do? Give up the empire she’s worked so hard to build? In real world, it’s not easy at all to move businesses. We are unable to move a mere grant inter regional in the same country. Forget internationally.
I don’t think there being lazy, per se. Just impractical. I agree with @pm3 that theirs is a relationship where there’s no point of grand declarations of love. However, it isn’t something they can fight for in my opinion. They should simply move on. In this matter, I love the advise an old movie “Speed” gave, love that happens in the times of dire hardships is broadly unsustainable. If you fall in love on a bus with a bomb, you should think twice before taking the next step.
I think he will receive her forgiveness by flying a kite with words like regret on it. ☺️ There’s a lot of kites. 😁 I saw a clip of it and they look happy. 🥰
This is not to say I don’t believe in fighting for the destiny of one’s desire. I earlier mentioned parents of children with special needs. Those are real fighters. Were they to resign to fate, their children would have no hope. They fight every single day with everything from the disorder itself to the doctors to the system of unending paperwork to researchers like us who have no concrete answers for them.
Fighters are women of third world countries clutched in poverty working so hard to keep their daughters in school instead of being married off. So that they have a chance at a better destiny instead of a terrible fate of being trapped all their lives.
So fight one must. Just with some discretion 😌 can one fight the dictatorship and rules of a place like NK to be with a man who might spend his life in a labor camp for wanting to be with one ? Hmm. Ahm.
Then one must move on (while eating and sleeping) to a move sustainable companionship.
Lots of typing errors given its just two comments.
*They are being lazy, per se
*More sustainable relationship
Also, isn’t this “fate” a component of all kdramas? Leads know each other since childhood, everybody is related to every body else etc ? It seems it is a well accepted concept and has to be in all dramas. I’m yet to see one where this concept is absent.
And I forgot to mention the very well articulated comments by @Josie, the very cute proposal of @Blue Galaxy with China that she’s been trying to indicate for some time now (hint writer hint!) and @John L for the scenes and the stories ! And of course @pm3 for her tireless efforts in bozo education (a side note: the dictionary meaning of bozo : a stupid MAN. what about women?).
Maybe I’m the only one for saying it’s not worth fighting for (for practical reasons.not fate or something) But some pessimistic verity in the fierce gang of optimistic fighter bitches ? 🙈
@packmule3 this is certainly a thought-provoking post. I had never bothered to distinguish between fate and destiny, because these concepts never confronted me, except in the dramas. What you wrote reminds me of the Christian discussions on predestination and free will? Growing up as a Catholic, these ideas confused me because I couldn’t quite grasp how my choices would matter if I, in the omnipotence of God, He already knew where I was bound to go. In Catholicism, human freedom is greatly valued because you must choose to love God. Without freedom, you’ll just be a slave to a higher being, “loving” only because you were coerced to, and almost only in a robotic way.
I bring this up because I think, in matters of love that are tacklde in dramas that play around the ideas of fate and destiny, freedom is an important consideration. Does SR and RJH really have no choice but to comply with their fate? Isn’t compliance and resignation to one’s fate also a choice? I guess, I’m confused as to where one’s free response to the circumstances blur into an acceptance of one’s fate. Seri chose to take the wrong path in Episode 1, thus leading her to the village. Was that here taking control of her destiny yet in the end leading to her fate, which is to meet RJH again
I wonder then if the defeatist character of RJH is a result of growing up in a society where man’s freedom is so minor and limited, and where their only choice is to accept they have no choice? His engagement to Seo Dan, after all, was arranged. It seemed he had no choice. I wonder why Seri, who grew up in a democratic society, also seems so pessimistic about the future of her relationship with RJH? Is it the result of the materials and entanglements of her consumerist life in Seoul that has imprisoned her?
Because if they are not free to make the choices essential to their relationship, then perhaps SeRi is right to ask “is this love?”
I sense from the preview that Ep 15 will still be full of angst. But like the others here, I hope that maybe, just maybe, the writer will give her characters enough agency to choose to be happy because their love will only make sense within a context of freedom.
@Arihsi I love your no-nonsense advice for the two to move on. In real life, I’d take it as the best and most rational one. To hell with fate!
I can’t think about destiny without the lines from Young Frankenstein’s nightmare leaping up:
‘I am not a Frankenstein. I’m a Fronkensteen. Don’t give me that. I don’t believe in fate. And I won’t say it. [pauses] All right, you win. You win. I give. I’ll say it. I’ll say it. I’ll say it. DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME! DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME!’
I guess Mel Brooks confused the two as well. Lol
Good morning all and happy Wednesday!
I truly appreciate packmule3 for such a thought-proving analysis as well as all of the other comments from every one!
I learned to differentiate the two “fate” and “destiny” with much clarity now!
I usually don’t discuss religion but since Catholicism was brought up, here’s a quick personal Buddhism take on the main characters: They might have met in their previous life and here they are again trying to continue because they are indebted to each other… hence all of the trials and errors…
Are they going to be each other’s karma in the end??!
The discussion is on “karma” if I’m allowed dear packmule3!
sure thing, go ahead. 🙂
@packmule3 – If I brought up something you previously mentioned, my bad. Not trying to ride on anyone’s train.
@Kiko – “They will have a happy ending.” If you put it out in the world, it will happen, right?
😂 no worries. It’s possible that I forgot to write about it. I dictate notes when I watch.
@John L – Mmhmm 🙂