Newbie poster Rahrah kindly gave us all the frozen times. He/she wins the Bitches’ Cup today.
2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29 – these are the first 10 prime numbers
31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61 – these are the next 8 prime numbers
67 – the square of this number is the number 4489 seconds encircled on Lee Gon’s chalkboard
4489 seconds is 74 minutes and 48 seconds.
Or a little bit less than 1 hour, 15 minutes.
71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97, 101, 103, 107, 109, 113, 127, 131, 137, 139, 149, 151, 157, 163, 167, 173, 179, 181, 191, 193, 197, 199, … and so on.
According to JT7,
The 62nd prime number is 293, squaring it gives you 85849, which is approximately almost 24 hours, 1 full day as LG mentioned.
Bravo, folks!!!!
**************************************************
I hope someone can help fill in the gaps.
1. 4s LG crossed portal to ROK for the first time. LL’s red paint froze mid-air.
2. 9s LL crossed portal to KOC. Time stopped at the park. TE froze in the middle of tying up her hair.
3. 25s *(Maybe because LG checked the portal again)
4. 49s LG crossed portal to KOC. Time stopped. LL’s at the beach.
5. 121s LL went to ROK. Time stopped. JY froze while walking towards LG.
6. 169s LG crossed portal to ROK.
7. 289s LG brought TE to KOC
8. 361s *TE returned to ROK (LG said he couldn’t send her)
9. 529s LG brought JY to ROK. LL’s time stopped.
10. 841s JY froze at the hotel. LG wrote a note.
11. 961s LG’s tap water froze. LL went to ROK.
12. 1369s LG, ES and the traitor crossed portal to KOC.
13. 1681s *LG crossed portal to call TE.
14. 1849s *LG returned to KOC after seeing TE in the bamboo forest (23rd Jan)
15. 2209s LL crossed the portal in New Year. Time stopped. LG faced LL in Heundae.
16. 2809s *Luna and PM Koo were already in ROK (not sure about the exact time).
17. 3481s TE had been kidnapped to KOC. Time stopped. LG was at the palace with Guard Seok and started to notice pattern. LL was at the dock in KOC.
18. 3721s Time stopped. LG and TE were at the church. PM Koo returned to KOC, LL went to ROK and bumped into SJ.
19. 4489s The number LG circled on the board.
As long as we are in math, I’m here using Euler’s formula for complex numbers.
Euler’s identity:
e^(i*Pi) + 1 = 0
Compared to the drama what is funny is the presence of 0 and 1.
But the formula could also be written like this:
e^(i*Pi) = 0 – 1
So…
e^(i*Pi) = – 1
(Damn, the zero is gone, lol!)
But remember LG’s speech at the mathematicians’ congress.
“Your answer and solution must be beautiful”.
This is precisely the case for this formula.
That’s why the formula has been preserved in the form:
e^(i*Pi) + 1 = 0
Rather than its reduced form:
e^(i*Pi) = – 1
Because it was nicer to have in one formula:
“e”, “i”, “pi”, “0”, “1”.
And yes, sometimes mathematicians prefer to keep the sense of aesthetics. ^^
“i” is an imaginary number. That’s what mathematicians call it.
An imaginary number is when squared gives a negative result.
i^2 = −1
What’s interesting here is that this is theoretically impossible.
If you multiply two negative numbers, you always get a positive number.
If you multiply a negative number by itself, you always get a positive number.
For example:
-3^2 = 9
Decomposing:
-3 * -3 = 9
If you take your electronic calculator and try to do:
SquareRoot(-1), it returns “error”.
As far as the symbolism is concerned:
“e”, “i”, and “pi” are all considered “transcendental” numbers.
Transcendental is a word that’s a big deal for a story like TKEM. ^^
So it’s an appropriate formula for drama.
In addition, “Pi” is what makes it possible to calculate the circumference as a function of the diameter.
That reminds me of the diagram you posted last time:
– the portal is the direct path.
– the curve the passage through the in-between world.
However, this is mathematically completely wrong to simulate a kind of wormhole.
But in a fictional story, you can always speculate and make a shortcut like this:
Pi * i = circumference, i.e. the limits of the in-between world.
and “i” is the diameter, the wormhole. As an imaginary number, it’s perfect to explain a phenomenon that is physically difficult to explain, a direct access to another dimension.
How can such a formula exist?
It comes from a mathematical demonstration, necessarily, since “i” is imaginary.
Don’t ask me how!
Here is a video on the subject:
Oh!
And I forget to say that, because it was too obvious :
“e” is Euler number in the previous formula, of course.
e = 2.71828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995……..
Love this
Bitches’ Cup definitely earned
I continue with further observations on how mathematics, without being a mathematical genius, can be used in TKEM, with another correlation made in the drama.
Here are some reflections, albeit weaker than those of my first comment.
To be taken with tweezers, this is possibly over-analysis.
i^2 = -1
It is rather welcome that the number 2 is specifically used to define the square of an imaginary number.
Indeed, there are TWO worlds!
The direct correlation is that the Square is also used on prime numbers, as you mention in your article.
For an exponential function, something else could have been used, but no.
Moreover, using this on prime numbers makes sense in relation to a human being.
The prime number cannot be decomposed, it symbolizes the uniqueness of a human being.
However, the observation made by LG is false: for both worlds to time freeze, it would take an infinite number of trips.
Here, this will just lengthen the duration of the time freeze.
Even if time eventually stops for 5 years, it won’t change anything for the inhabitants who don’t notice these time stops.
We can push the correlation even further in the drama, even though the writer didn’t specifically determine that. In any case, anything unintentional is basically welcome because it’s a bit of a miracle of creative thinking, creating unexpected but significant correlations.
Here we have the number “i”, imaginary.
Once squared, it gives -1.
As -1 is a negative number, it is a useful symbol to show something that does not move in the normal direction, but rather in the opposite direction.
In other words, a return in time.
I don’t know how many correlations the writer intentionally used. But a good bunch from my first comment, anyway.
Therefore, it doesn’t surprise me that the drama is a pile of various mixed themes: 2 parallel worlds, time travel, between worlds.
It all fits perfectly with the simplified mathematics chosen and their intuitive symbolism.
Even the doopleganger can refer to the number 2.
Likewise, it’s a far-fetched explanation.
An imaginary situation squared 2 people = -1, one people is too many!
Kim Eun Sook really genius to make this kind of drama
Once again, fantastic work @rahrah!
@packmule: I was bothered by the double crossing for the 18th time stop, so I rewatched that section on Episode 12. Sequence of the scenes were: Time stops at the church. the errr “beheading kiss” in LG’s room, LL meets SJ in ROK, then has dinner with Song Jeong Hye. Scene cuts to show the number 4489 circled, followed by PM Koo’s SIL meeting with PM Koo (who looks like she just returned since she says she hasn’t eaten, plus she has no idea about the recent news & doesn’t have her phone). I think the scene with 4489 is connected with PM Koo’s crossing back.
Going by the sequence, I think it should be:
18. 3721s: Time stops when LG & TE are at the church. LL crosses to ROK and meets SJ.
19. 4489s: PM Koo crosses back to KOC (but no time stop is shown).
This way there is no double crossing. LL crosses to ROK, has dinner, then brings PM Koo back. Also, I think the show uses moments where the doppelgängers catch glimpses of themselves to indicate crossings too, since only LL and LG experience the time stops. Like when PM Koo crosses over, Nari says she had a deja vu moment. I’d like to try to fit these moments in a table to see if it corresponds, @rahrah may I incorporate the info you shared too please?
I so agree with you @Nita, KES is a genius for fitting in all the details in such an ambitious plot!
Thanks for sharing this!
Yes they focussed on the 4489 on the blackboard which is when PM Koo crossed back. Also I think it shows that Lee Rim is only using the one umbrella with the flute. He hasn’t split his flute further which is what few are theorizing because they show many umbrellas in his house.
<i
@Dewdrop I also have misgivings re the theory of LR breaking the flute further. Cos can we really imagine LR would sharing the flute with his lowly minions who are all expendable to him? He trusts no one and he is greed personified.
We also have to consider that logistically, further breaking the flute would make it harder, if not nearly impossible to restore it.
Even Valdemort who divided his souls 7 ways took the care to hide them where they were almost impossible to retrieve. LR putting them simply on an umbrella stand by the door looks quite reckless to me. That does not compute.
“However, the observation made by LG is false: for both worlds to time freeze, it would take an infinite number of trips.”
Fair point @WEnchanteur, the square of any number, no matter how big, is not infinity. Still, after a certain point the number of seconds the world will freeze for will be huge. But it will need a lot of portal crossings to last more than a human life time. For example, the 500th prime number squared = 3581^2 which would be about 148 days.
It’s a good observation also that other than LG and LL the world won’t notice any freeze. It’s only these two that will be stuck in between seconds that stretch to last bigger and bigger amounts of time. Only for them.
Love this too:
“As -1 is a negative number, it is a useful symbol to show something that does not move in the normal direction, but rather in the opposite direction.
In other words, a return in time.”
@JT7, feel free to use whichever valid points from my comment. My brain just melted from watching 12 episodes (T.T)
Oh btw, I posted my timeline comment without the most important message which is:
Thank you for analyzing TKEM and helping people like me who don’t understand Korean language to truly enjoy Kim Eun-sook’s work. I now know it’s not easy to work out the details of one drama. I prefer reading everyone else’s comments.
You did well Rahrah. 🙂
It’s never easy analyzing a drama WHILE it’s still on-going. They are so many moving parts and changing variables.
However, if nobody tries to dissect the drama, or at the very least ATTEMPT to understand what’s going on, then the silly fangirls win. They’ll overwhelm those viewers who actually WANT to learn something or understand what they’re seeing.
That’s the whole point: If we let the fangirls (and the antis and naysayers) dominate the conversation, then KES script loses out and her hard work and her message get buried. That’s a shame.
As I said, I decided to review this kdrama because I’m ornery. I was annoyed because people were already dissing the drama when they hadn’t even seen it yet. Then, they had the gall to dismiss people who like KES’ work as mindless sheeple. I thought to myself, “Okayyyyyyy, fine! Challenge accepted!” I’ll review this kdrama. lol.
@packmule
I just look to the sky whenever I see posts dissing the show & saying it is bad & hard to understand so they just fast forward to the cute antics of JY/ES.
Don’t get me wrong. I love me some Twin Unbreakable Sword but how do you expect to understand the drama if you fast forward? Height of hypocrisy if you ask me.
@pm3 and @mychoiyoung
I’d like to offer my two cents regarding the current culture of non-acceptance of things that are hard to understand. Knowledge and will to comprehend better is being seen as elitist. Anything that requires brain usage is being deemed a waste of time.
This isn’t just restricted to drama and entertainment. It has percolated all through our social fabric. We study phenomena that are hard to understand (because we study the human brain 😝) and would you believe, routinely in our outreach programs we now face feedback that says the audiences are not interested in detail and would just like us to concentrate on simpler concepts and pretty imagery. Well. In an ideal society we wouldn’t stand to do that. We would instead stand to convince the people about how complex the brain is and how little we really understand of its mechanics. But who wants to hear that? No one.
Whatever maybe the outcome of this drama, LMH, KES and KGE are tooo well established to be impacted in the long term. The real impact is on us. The people. By the refusal to humbly accept one’s limitations and listening to people who know better, by refusing to strive to achieve specialized knowledge, by demeaning expertise and experience in a field as elitist, by embracing falsified information for the sake of simplicity. We invite our own doom.
My respect for LMH has increased by leaps and bounds with this drama. Not only do I find his acting really moving (post first couple of episodes), I admire his courage to deviate from the generic roles that he’s been doing till now. He must’ve known that this drama (and KGE) is a risk with the type of fanbase he has.
Thanks @Rahrah for your post. An excellent contribution indeed. The prime number after 293 (which, if the first travel was at 3s then it would be travel number 60th following the sequence of prime numbers) is 307 (travel #61) then the person stuck will spend 1 day 2 hours 49 seconds stuck.
Sequence of Prime numbers (between 0 to 1000)
https://www.infoplease.com/math-science/mathematics/numbers-formulas/prime-numbers-between-1-and-1000
Conversion tool from seconds to hh:mm:ss
https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/second-to-hour/
Another thing that call my attention is that both Lee Lim and Lee Gon are falling into another infinity: the infinite space between 0 and 1 (hur hur) seconds.
As you know, infinity is all around us. Imagine a number as big as you can and then add 1 to that number (BTW, someone saw “The Phantom Toolboth” movie as a child?)… but it is less known that, for example, there are infinite numbers between 0 and 1. So both Lees are falling into the infinite fraction of a second (within a second!!!) every time one of them travel to the another realm, where the equivalence of one second to the observer gets a bigger increase in the denominator of a fraction of a second for the world.
That makes me wonder if the observer could end up stuck in such a fraction of a second for life (spending his time in a frozen world) while the people in that world will never notice, or if it is indeed a world freezing to a halt while the observer is the only one with his time running as it should. I guess (repurposing a quote attributed to Stalin) that the first scenario would be a tragedy if it happened to him, but a statistic if it happened to any of the dimensions if the second is the correct answer.
That also makes me wonder: if a traveller spends time in the “space between 1 and 0” where one day spent has the duration of two months in any of the “normal spaces” (real dimensions)… could it be a mechanism of counterbalance of the expansion of time another traveler perceives when he gets to normal space?.
Hope to read your hypotheses soon!!!
I am obsessed with TKEM! I went through the time stamps of world crossings and this is what I see:
1) 2-4s episode 1, time stamp 1:05:46, LG to RoK, time freezes for LL
2) 3-9s episode 3, time stamp 49:46, LG w/ TE at park; LL at bookstore
3) 5-25s episode 3, time stamp 1:09:57 end scene LG returns to KoC
episode 4, time stamp 1:50 open scene LL at beach and time freezes
4) 7-49s episode 4, ts 49:54, LG at pond w/ JY walking towards him
5) 11-121s ep 4, ts 59:01, LG shoulder hurts and goes back to RoK
6) 13-169s ep 4, ts 1:09:03, LG takes TE to KoC
7) 17-289s ep 6, ts 29:30, LG takes TE back to RoK
8) 19-361s ep 6, after dropping off TE, LG goes back to KoC
9) 23-529s ep 7, ts 25:39, LG takes JY to RoK
10) 29-841s ep 7, ts 1:02:53, LG & JY at hotel talking, time freezes, LG writes note to JY
11) 31-961s ep 9, ts 16:18, LG in hotel washing hands, time freezes
12) 37-1369s, ep 9, ts 30:55, LG takes ES to KoC
13) 41-1681s, ep 10, ts 5:05, LG goes to bamboo forest, meets w/ TE
14) 43-1849s, ep 10, LG goes back to KoC after bamboo forest visit
15) 47-2209s, ep 10, ts 21:00, LG at pond wishing TE happy New Year, time freezes
This is where I find the count a little confusing in trying to match the 19th prime number 67 which is 4489 seconds. I think at the end of episode 12, we are on the 20th prime number 71-5041s.
16) 53-2809s, ep 11, ts 27:00, LG at pond, throws King’s ring into air, time freezes (LL takes Prime Minister and Luna to RoK. I am guessing that LL takes two trips. ).
17) 59-3481s
18) 61-3721s ep 11, ts 55:50, TE wakes up at salt ponds/gangster hideout (LL takes TE to KoC)
19) 67-4489s, Church scene where time freezes/PM returns to KoC. I think LL would take two trips to KoC to drop off TE and PM separately.
However, for 16 to 19, I feel like it should be 6 trips:
LL take PM from KoC to RoK,
comes back to KoC
Takes Luna to RoK
Then, takes TE to KoC
comes back to RoK
takes PM back to KoC
If it was 6 trips, then we would be at 21st prime number 73-5329s.
Thanks for having this dialogue. Really have enjoyed reading your blog, and people’s comments. Thank you!
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Thank you so much, @rahrah, I used the info you shared, shuffled around some events and added some things, & here’s the table! I’ve also added in details for the dejavu events too, to see if they link in any way. @packmule, I’ll try to email you the doc since I am not sure if I’m embedding the doc correctly.
I think KES is a genius for being able to incorporate all the little details neatly into the time stops. The crossings & their order all tally up (except for one which I will talk about later).
Just wanted to note some observations after working through the details:
1. All the time stops correspond to LG or LL crossing the portal in ONE direction (as in, either going from KOC -> ROK, or ROK -> KOC.). However there are 2 exceptions (highlighted in pink in the table):
a. Time stop 3 (25s): LG gets TE’s car after meeting her in the park, & drives to the bamboo forest alone. He sees the portal, confirming that the flute is needed to open the portal, but he does not cross.
b. Time stop 8 (361s): This is when TE supposedly returns to ROK after visiting KOC for the first time. The natural assumption would be that this trip has to be bi-directional, since whoever sends TE across to ROK has to return back to KOC.
2. I am assuming these 2 exceptions still fit neatly into the whole scheme of things (ie, there must be a simple & beautiful solution). Which means, what causes the time stops isn’t about crossing the portal in one direction, because these 2 instances deviate from that rule. I think a more likely explanation is that the time stops are caused by the opening of the portal, rather than the crossing of it. This will help to explain time stop #3, where the portal is opened, but LG doesn’t make a crossing.
3. Going by that idea, it helps to explain time stop #8. The portal is only opened once, but LG (whom I think is most likely to have escorted TE) crosses twice, KOC->ROK to drop TE off, then returns back to KOC immediately after since he needs to rush for his battle with Japan. So even though its a double crossing, it still fits neatly into one time stop since the portal was only opened once.
(Side note: This idea made me super happy, because I am admittedly a shallow-islander. :p When I watched the episode initially I was horrified because what! you kiss the girl, declare you are dating, then dump her to cross the portal alone? It didn’t make sense, plus how does she cross without the flute?
When LG mentioned he wouldn’t be able to see TE off, I initially thought he would get JY to escort her, because there doesn’t seem to be anyone else he would trust to do so. But he definitely did not ask JY since JY saw the portal for the first time when he crossed to ROK later on. So it probably would have been LG himself bringing TE across, leaving her in the bamboo forest, then rushing back to go to battle. I mean, if he has enough time to go to NMland for TE to plant seeds, I am sure he has time to cross the portal with TE. Perhaps what he means is that he was unable to see her off properly, as in all the way to her door, but had to leave her in the bamboo forest.)
4. Deja vu events: All these occur when the portal has been opened/crossed, so they might be taken as an indicator that the portal is open/crossed. Also, I noticed that in 4 out of the 5 events, the person who experienced the event “meets” with someone coming from the other world shortly after:
-After TE sees Luna in her rearview mirror, she meets LG for the first time.
-JY drops his coffee, then LG returns from ROK
– PM Koo sees her double’s reflection, then soon after receives the newspaper with her double’s face
– Nari sees ES & Seung A, and soon after PM Koo visits her cafe.
For the 5th event (LL henchman in the hospital), I am wondering if him meeting ES, or TE (when she visits ES) might be the thing that keeps the pattern, maybe I am just reading too much into it lol.
Another thing I found interesting is that time stop #16 seems to be when LL brings both Luna and PM Koo over to ROK. At least, that seems to be the only way we can fit all the events in neatly to coincide with the time stops.. and while time freezing is not shown, this is the only time when 2 deja vu events occur. So perhaps 2 deja vu events happened, because there were 2 people brought across by LL?
5. The only anomaly I found in the whole pattern is the time stop where LG throws the ring & walks away from sub captain Seok. The show clearly indicates the time taken was 3481s, so I placed it at time stop #17. But if you review the scenes & their sequence, this time stop seems to fit much better at #16, because LG finds out that PM Koo is MIA directly after this. But I guess this is of little consequence, I am still very mind-blown by how KES has been thorough in tying all the little details together! I really really hope she manages to wrap up everything nicely in the remaining 4 episodes.
Oh, and @packmule & the rest of you here… thank you so much for the discussions & ideas, I’ve come to appreciate kdrama so so much more after reading you all here!
Ok my embedded link doesn’t work! Sigh. Please try this link instead for the table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NA7M3XHJxjTVHZDDF4bQp0gmRTpwP-exvA39l9S_3-k/edit?usp=sharing
I’ll try to mail you soon @packmule.
Thank you very much @JT7!! The sequences and instances of portal activation are much clearer. Since show has left us with clues and no confirmation of its logic, then your theory of time freezes with portals being open is perfectly plausible too.
I’m glad you’re enjoying yourself here!
But Lee Lim seemed to have crossed the portal many more times previously as he was gathering his henchmen and giving wings to his plans for 25 years prior to LG’s discovery of the portal. So shouldn’t we take all those times into account as well? And if we do, shouldn’t time stop for weeks, or even months for LL??
The “frozen time” seems (again this is only a theory) to have been activated by Lee Gon’s first crossover.
Lee Lim could have been crossing back and forth (like when he visited the salt flat 10 years after the coup) without time stoppage. 🙂
To the naysayers: I always think publicity is publicity (doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative). It will still serve its purpose of creating awareness and curiosity.
And on LG as the 8th rower in the 88th class, I guess it’s an Asian thing that we consider the #8 a lucky number. A number that ends with an upward stroke like 0, too. My wedding anniversary is August 8 (yes, I’m superstitious like that). Lol! No.8 horizontally is infinity (unending loop). Eternal.
Also, let me just add “I Love You” has 8 letters.
Btw, let’s all extend our birthday greetings to the future Queen of the Kingdom of Corea. Saengil chukha hamnida, JTE!!!
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LOL @Say08 Thanks for the reminder! I’m in at timezone ahead by many hours but still, Happy Birthday Jeong Tae Eul! She’s supposed to be born in 1990, therefore she’s 30 year old, by Western reckoning and maybe 31 by Eastern birthday calculation.
A good age to be married and be Queen! 😁 Good to start having the kids soon too!! 😉
Awww I want to see royal babies of LG and TE. 🥰
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