The title of Episode 14 was “Elevator Speech” which was defined as “a brief, persuasive speech during an elevator ride.”
To me, Dosan’s speech to Dalmi inside the elevator in Ep 15 was a continuation of Ep 14’s theme. He gave Dalmi his own elevator speech. And he was prompted by the sight of the prospectus on the Smart City that she was holding.
Also, this elevator scene reminded me of the time in Ep 7 when both JP and Dosan saw a thread on Dalmi’s hair.
Here are my reasons:
1. Both times, JP tried to demonstrate to Dosan that he had a bigger claim on Dalmi.
In Ep 15, JP mentioned the “kongjaban” and told Dalmi to ask her grandma to make him some. He wanted Dosan to think that he and Dalmi were in a close enough relationship that Halmeoni was taking care of him as a future grandson-in-law.
In Ep 7, JP tried to one-up Dosan with the 461 questions. He simply wasn’t showing off that he answered all of them (such a dedication!) but he was trying to make a point to Dosan that Dalmi had been exchanging texts with him *461* times – I guess, as opposed to Dalmi texting Dosan one time after the networking party.
JP: Hold on, Ms. Seo. Did you check my email?
Dalmi: My email? No not yet.
JP: Those questions you sent me. I emailed you my answers, so check when you get a moment.
Dalmi: What? I texted you over 400 questions. You answered all of them?
JP: Right, 461 questions in total. I answered them all. (looking pointedly at Dosan)
Dalmi: (gasping) Seriously. You’re amazing. Thank you so much. I really mean it. Then, to thank you I will…
JP: (spotting a thread on her head) You have something on…
Dalmi: I’ll do whatever it takes to become an outstanding CEO.
JP: You can’t achieve that on determination alone.
Dalmi: Right, I can’t. But without determination, I won’t go anywhere.
2. JP hadn’t changed.
In Ep 7, he didn’t think much of Dalmi’s determination to succeed. Three years later, he was still at it. When Dalmi asked him about making a bid for the Smart City project, he rejected the idea outright because he expected her to fail. Never mind luck! Her determination, time and energy wouldn’t guarantee her success.
Dalmi: Director Han. I’m just asking in case.
JP: It’s unlikely.
Dalmi: Still. If we got lucky…like, if we got unbelievably lucky, do you think we could win?
JP: No. It’s just a waste of time and resources to try something you know that you will fail.
Dalmi: Right? I knew you’d say that.
3. JP was no trailblazer.
lol. If he was even too timid to move and remove that piece of thread from Dalmi’s hair, how could he be expected to sail without a map? He was no trailblazer in business and in love. He deserved to lose.
4. Dosan was always the more dynamic person compared to JP when Dalmi’s wellbeing was in question.
In Ep 7, Dosan wouldn’t allow JP to have the last word. When JP ordered him to get in the car so they could leave, Dosan veered off and spoke to Dalmi instead. He wouldn’t leave with saying his goodbye to Dalmi, too. Then, he stood in front of her, blocking out JP.
Dosan: Hey, I forgot to answer your question about the shares. You’re our CEO who holds 71 percent of the shares. I am part of your shares…
Spotting the thread on Dalmi’s hair, he reached out to remove it. He didn’t even pause to think about his action.
Dosan: …And I got your back. And we’ll always be a team no matter what happens.
He held Dalmi by the shoulders.
Dosan: So trust me and don’t worry, okay?
Dalmi: Okay.
He patted her hair affectionately.
Dalmi: Go home
Dosan: All right. It’s chilly. Go back inside.
He held her shoulders against and she held his arms.
Unlike JP, Dosan wouldn’t hesitate to fix something for Dalmi…whether it was his attendance at the networking party, the lint on her hair, a complaint about their NoonGil app, or her anxiety about failing the team again. He always had her back.
5. Seeing the prospectus in Dalmi’s hand was like seeing the thread on her hair.
He would help her out because he was always on her team. In the same way, he wasn’t going to stand still when he spotted the thread on her hair, he wasn’t going to stand back and watch her shy away from the Smart City project.
He knew that Dalmi was only HOLDING HERSELF BACK out of fear and guilt that she would fail the Samsan Tech team again and lose them like she did three years. He didn’t want to see Dalmi restrain herself because – as I said in another post – he had the same experience before.
He had been in the same boat as Dalmi. He was lost for years until Dalmi arrived and he realized that he wouldn’t mind “sailing without a map” with her? Remember his apology to Chulsan and Yongsan? Because of the cheating incident when he was a kid, he always had this terrible guilt weighing down on him like an anchor. He felt guilty that he “cheated” and that he couldn’t measure up to his father’s expectations as a result of that “cheating” incident. His guilt hindered him from pursuing his real goals. He was a genius, but he was underutilizing his brainpower, like his mom said. He was willing to just coast around.
Figuratively speaking, the “cheating” incident taught him to fear sailing out to sea because he thought the wind was his enemy.
That’s why he could recognize the same signs in Dalmi…although the others, like Chulsan, Youngsan and Saha, didn’t. When Dalmi didn’t want to pursue the project, he knew that she was wracked with guilt and fear of failure. He’d “been there, done that.” I pointed out that Dosan was unconsciously tugging at his collar or rubbing his neck (Great details by the actor!). Note that after he spoke his mind to Dalmi in the elevator, he stopped tugging.
Dosan: Dalmi.
JP: Yes?
Dosan: You know we should put in a bid for the self-driving platform.
Dalmi: (stared at him blankly then replied) You know that this isn’t something we can tackle. And it’s highly unlikely that we’ll get it.
Dosan: I know. I don’t expect us to get it. Still, we should —
JP: (interrupting) Why bother? It’s a lot of work for something you don’t expect to succeed at.
Dosan: That’s why we should do it. That way, it’ll be easier next time.
Dalmi: Well..
JP: So like a practice game, you want to put off everything else to come up with a proposal and a whole new program for this project and even prepare for the tech evaluation just for practice?
I said that JP was ONLY an investor. He NEVER created anything in his life, and knew the business only based on financial reports and ROI (return on investment). He was UNLIKE Dosan. Dosan was an entrepreneur. He created a business from a vision, managed the business’ daily operation, and saw the INTANGIBLES in a business venture.
JP: That’s a lot of time and energy. If you don’t get it —
Dosan: It’ll be a learning experience. You pass failure on your way to success. We’ll build experience.
JP: That’s just being reckless.
Dalmi: What’s with you two? Why talk about work here?
Dosan: “Reckless”? Right. You need to keep digging around to find a good lot. We’ll keep digging and —
JP: The wrong order can cost you your life. I told you before. If you sail off without a map, you’ll die. Be it a typhoon or a shark. You will die either way. Did you forget?
Dosan: How could I? Of course, I remember. Sailing off without a map.
Dalmi looked at him, and remembered when she told him that they’d take on the Noongil project although they didn’t know where the funding would come. “Sailing off without a map,” was her idea back then, and he agreed to it. That was her flashback.
Dosan: But to me, sailing off without a map was marvelous. (turning to Dalmi) I might’ve failed, but I have no regrets. Never did and never will.
Dalmi stared at him. She and Dosan were having a PRIVATE conversation here in full view of JP. And I like this. JP could never understand them because he wasn’t part of their world — just like during the first encounter of Dalmi and Dosan at the networking party. That time, JP had been outsider. Here, in this small elevator, JP was again the outsider. Although they were stuck in a small space, he couldn’t have been in a different galaxy from them.
JP: Look, Dosan.
Dosan: (turning to look at him) I know. Like you said, sailing off with a map could cost me my life. But I could also survive. And people like that become trailblazers.
Dosan showed his maturity and experience here. He found his identity. He wasn’t a loser that JP pegged him to be. He knew he was a trailblazer. And he was telling Dalmi that she could trust him. She shouldn’t worry because he still got her back.
Unfortunately, he couldn’t pat her hair like he did three years ago because he thought she was JP’s girl. So all he could do was walk out of the elevator.
6. “I’m much stronger now.”
He was telling Dalmi not to be afraid because he was still part of her 71% share.
Dosan: I’m sorry. I put you in a difficult position. Just pretend you never heard what I said. It was just noise.
Dalmi: How could I do that when I heard everything you said?
Dosan: Dalmi. I’ll support your decision no matter what you decide to do. I just don’t want your decision to be hindered by us. Even if we fail, it won’t affect the team.
Dalmi: You must’ve overheard my conversation with InJae.
Dosan: Yes. So don’t worry about that, okay?
Dalmi: The past three years have changed me. I’m a lot more careful now.
Dosan: I’ve changed, too. I’m much stronger now.
He was reassuring her. He didn’t want fear and anxiety to determine her decisions. She didn’t have to guard against another break-up of the team if they fail the bid. She replied that she was wiser now; she wouldn’t be conned as easily as before. But he said that he was stronger. There could be three interpretations to his parting remark.
a. he was stronger business-wise. He could deal with risks because he was business savvy now.
b. he was stronger financially. He could back up his decisions because he was independently wealthy.
b. he was stronger emotionally. He wouldn’t cry like he did before when they broke up.
***********************
This was one of my drafts on “Start-Up” that I forgot to post. I was going to delete it because I thought it was too late.
Enjoy. 🙂
I think that private conversation and the trailblazer remark showed all of Dosan’s growth in that short moment. I’ll remember Suzy’s face when Dosan said he had no regrets and never would. I could hear her heart and brain working hard and thought they will never really be apart now.
Thank you @PM3 for breaking down one of my favorite scenes!!! Love this so much.
Although I would really like a more literal smack down of HJP, I’m happy with this scene since it takes a higher level of understanding to read through the meaning and nuance of the conversations here like you did.
Dosan’s growth and maturity is very evident, his confidence and belief in his capabilities (honed in 3 yrs at 2STO) are also on display. He is confident that he can have what it takes to be a trailblazer! Yay!!!
What I also like is that they are not in a romantic relationship here yet so Dalmi’s professional decision is not clouded by that. And it’s clear Dosan will support her and be at her side even if they are not BF-GF. It takes a lot of maturity to do this.
It’s been a great experience to go through Start Up with this community. Thoroughly enjoyed the rewatch sessions and posts by everyone. May I be able to move on by the new year! 😊😂 Cheers!!!
Packmule3 Thank you for not deleting this post. It is beautiful 😊
Super super agree with you in all those points.
On point 2: JP hadn’t changed.
Oh yeah, it made me remembered from our last rewatch party. JP smiled after said all of that to Dalmi, because he thought finally Dalmi will follow his suggestion.. listened How last word of Dalmi was “Right? I knew you’d say that..”
therefore, when what Dosan said in the elevator is the total opposite of what JP said, he got panicked that Dalmi would be swayed.. lol.. right after spending 3 yrs getting to know Dalmi without Dosan’s around… he still clueless about Dalmi’s vision. Should I also say that he still look down to Dalmi, looking that he was running to Dalmi when he knew that Dalmi would meet the sneaky journalist.. he didn’t realized how Dalmi is grown up too.. and that she is doing fine with the full support of her team and ofcourse big part of it: Dosan’s spirit.
I also remembered that Injae said to Dalmi a business could grow as large as CEO’s dream. I also agree on what Injae said. But the CEO could never have done it alone. The CEO will need partner who have the same frequency and also share the same vision, that will support her endlessly.
In here, not only that I see JP hadn’t changed. He also should I say, didn’t believe that someone can grow, and didn’t believe in the beautiful and powerful teamwork are. Maybe because JP usually work with himself so he only believe in himself and not in teamwork?
Another hhhhhhhh.. here 😔
On point 4 and 5 and 6
Maybe this is also why I am more attracted to Dosan’s character from the very beginning. The writer create Dosan’s character to be not confident, shy, a bit awkward around people, and too innocent.. but when it comes to action. He is determined. I like how the writer create a character that is so swoon-worthy personality wise, but less appealing by most people. And for me the Dosan after San Fransisco is like a diamond. He shines more because he is a lot stronger now.
Thanks @packmule3 for posting this.
How is jp a great investor if he can’t even look under the hood?
He was so blinded by his envy, petty-self that he failed to recognize (admit) over and over again what a genius DoSan is.
– jp was shocked that SamSan tech entered CODA competition and won (clue 1)
– jp was shocked when Alex chosed SamSan Tech to enter SandBox because Alex recognize how SamSan Tech can create such complex algorithm in that short amount of time (“quite amazing” Alex said)
– jp himself called Noongil caviar
– jp was aware that SamSan tech gang resolved the ransomware attack
– jp told YoungSan literally that SamSan tech gang will make a great partner
– jp knew they passed the self driving test on first try
Smart city project was largely a tech bid, and SamSan tech had a world class engine, with DalMi at the helm (also show that he didn’t put much stock here on DalMi’s capability), why won’t DalMiDoSan&co had a fighting chance?
I agree with every point you made. That’s why I think JP was so in a rush to get those letters back because he might have thought Dosan got inspired with his elevator speech because he kept the letters for so long when the truth is Dosan’s speech was inspired with all the events that happened in his life. From the time JP saw that Dosan couldn’t even find the keyword to Dalmi’s letter to now Dosan being able to not only find the keyword but also relate to the letters and even built his own memories with Dalmi through that “true love” letter.
I especially liked When Dosan told Dalmi that she shouldn’t worry about losing her team and he was telling her that even if they fail, she wouldn’t lose her team. I took at Dosan subtly telling her that he would not ever leave her no matter what happens.
So glad I have found this blog. Thank you so much for all the learnings. I will appreciate this and I hope I could move on from this drama. Happy Happy New Year to Everyone.
Ohh!! Speaking of shares, the fact that he invested the money he got from 2STO in Dalmi’s company showed his 64% of shares back then which is equivalent to your point that he will always have Dalmi’s back and is completely on her side. And he kept it for so long (3 years) and never touched it. He kept it for Dalmi and their dreams together because he thought one day (just in case) Dalmi would be working on the self-driving dream they had.
Also, I loved how automatic Dalmi’s response was to Dosan’s remark about “noise.” She knows exactly what he meant and proceeds to implying thay Dosan’s opinions were of value to her and shouldn’t be filtered out.
@Gen – your theory of why HJP suddenly asked for the letters back seem to make sense. But this is another proof that the letters were not important to HJP!!! He let Dosan keep them for 3 years. He should have demanded for them immediately when their charade started or even when it ended if they were precious to him. He could have used it to understand Dalmi more, even start conversation with her about the past. But nope, the letters were not important, even an after thought. He cared for the plant, sure, but it’s a “money” plant. LOL! Also symbolized to what’s more important (precious) to him.
This debunks the furor of HJP fans over those letters.
@Janey
Wow! Never thought that the plant could be interpreted as it being a symbolism to what’s important to JP (money). Since fangirls were comparing and arguing about why Dosan suddenly wanted the plant back when it was a living thing that could die after 3 years and JP took care of it while the letters were non-living. It is understandble that Dosan would leave the money plant given his personality. But for JP? Why would he give up the letters if it was so precious?
And I still believe the true receiver of those letters particularly the sailing off without a map and music box letter that had a writing “True Love” and “I am writing to the one I love” is still definitely Nam Dosan because that was the letter that prompted and moved him to go to the networking party to meet his first and true love.
@Janey omg yes! If the letters mean so much for JP, then why didn’t he take them sooner! How couldn’t I realize it lol
@Ella wow, I am agree with you on questioning if JP really a great investor. He is a risk averse person yes (very typical). He is blinded by envy: oh super yes. When he failed to see the potential great things from Samsantech and Dalmi team, he already spent the opportunity cost. If Director Yoon not pushing HJP to invest cheongmyeong company.. I don’t think he would want to invest. Yeah Dir Yoon stopped them from losing more from opportunity cost.
@Gen I also thought that the true receiver or letters is Nam Dosan! The way Dalmi said in those letter that she hope Dosan is real and then Nam Dosan came into her life, just exactly as she pictured him to be. Even better..
And i dont know but i think him asking the letters back from Dosan is quite shameful. He said himself to Dalmi that he is not the Nam Dosan in the letter. But he still asked Dosan for those letter. Ugh.. he should have been giving it back to the rightful owners then (dosan or dalmi). Well, or Maybe those are for his mementos? Idk.
@Janey: haha yeaa you right because the plant is money plant.. I also believe that the letters don’t mean much for JP. The relationship/memories with Halmoni yes, but the letter well not so much. I also think that it’s more like the chores that he has to do to live with Halmoni back then. The chores that he doesn’t think of deeply. This is one of the points that I don’t get from JP fans who said that the letters were meaningful to JP and it was so romantic and because of those letters JP is more deserved to be with Dalmi. Like.. hello??
Edited: I posted this during the last re-watch party, I repost this here with edit on account *my bad because I glossed over/didn’t listen to it properly before when I wrote the first one*
I want to highlight this sentence in Korean “만에 하나” (man-e hana) which means one in ten thousand or very rare and how it was used repeatedly in Ep15.
This sentence was uttered in three separate instances in this episode,
1st was YoungSan quoting what DolSan said to Alex (netflix translation: “just in case”)
2nd was DalMi asking jp’s opinion on smart city project (netflix translation: “if we get lucky”)
3rd was DoSan telling DalMi the reason he worked on the smart city project in 2STO (netflix translation: “just in case”)
In the first instance YoungSan and ChulSan was having an inside conversation about DoSan turning his one in ten thousand hope/dream into reality, that ‘man-e hana’ was what DoSan said to Alex when he asked why DoSan wanted to work on self-driving project in 2STO.
DalMi said the same ‘man-e hana’ when she asked jp’s opinion on bidding the smart city project and netflix translate it as ‘if we get lucky.’
The last one was during epilogue when DoSan was telling DalMi the truth about his reason for working on the self-driving project in 2STO just in case (man-e hana) DalMi remember those brainstorming session they had at the rooftop office, if she started working on the self-driving system, DoSan wanted to do it with her. He asked how about DalMi? and DalMi was smiling saying she too.
For me this emphasis the connection that DalMi and DoSan have, even during their three years separation both working separately on the self-driving system with each other in mind. DalMi naming the project Tarzan was akin to hiring a LED display saying “I’m thinking of you.” No one but DalMi DoSan and to an extent SamSan tech gang understand the real meaning of Tarzan. The epilogue on Ep15 was basically a rewrite of Ep14 hut conversation.
It’s so wonderful to see you guys still discussing and dissecting on Start-Up. I really never imagined that we’d reach this far when this show was on its pilot airing and packmule had reservations on watching the drama. And in my quick read in this comment thread, I learn new things again to love this drama even more. It’s sad that I was not able to join any of the rewatch parties we have here. Well, I’m still happy because I become part of Start Up Dosan Lovers community. It’s just so awesome seeing you guys had fun during there rewatch parties.
I just found out today that something similar like Sandbox does exist in SoKor. I happen to watch one of my fave idols’ variety show “Jangstar” on Youtube. This show may not be your cup of tea as the star here (Jangjun of Golden Child) acts so crazy, insane, extravagant; you’d think he’s not a kpop idol with how he acts here 😁. Anyway, one of Jangstar’s episodes features a start-up investing company, really like Sandbox. They were promoting about their event about some start-up festival. It can also be seen in this video
https://youtu.be/XSeMzC7BxuE some companies that this Sandbox-like company invested.
Now I’m missing Start-up after watching the episode 😃.
Well, I have moved on from Start Up actually. But this drama will be forever be special in my heart 😊💕.
Hi all
I have loved the discussion on Start Up – still trying to find the quote in Episode 4 about if (mathematicall) I am twice as grateful – we both must be negatively grateful.
I have also found a painter with a print similar to the one in Dalmi’s place -the one with the bright red poppy and other flowers.
I have now started watching Run On – interesting because of the translator – who sees her work as a brdige between cultures. The male actor is from Missaeng (old but I watched it because an academic talking about Kdrama said it was one of her favourite kdramas). I would love to discuss this – will it happen in this forum?
Hi Jo3edc. I don’t think Run On will be covered in this blog. Packmule3 doesn’t like the actress’s acting. You can find her explanation here: http://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/12/06/bitch-talk-should-we-watch-these/
Also not a lot in this blog expressed interest watching the drama so most probably Run On will not discussed here.
@LeeDale9198, thank you for the link about start-ups. I agree that Jang Jun is very entertaining to watch. What a lot of energy!
👍
You got it. I keep seeing gifs of Siwan on tumblr though.
But no. With so many good dramas to write about, I’m going to skip “Run On.” I see however that they’re trying to tempt viewers with a 💋 kiss from Siwan (is this his first onscreen kiss?) but his female costar’s acting annoys me as much as that actress in “Do You Like Brahms?” and that actress in “Flower Crew: Joseon Marriage Agency.” 😕
I actually enjoy Run On lol.. With ShinSeKyung since the plot here is light, her one note expression doesn’t bother me as much. I also like SooYoung here, her storyline is more interesting than the main couple. And the fashion in RunOn is pretty.
@Jo3edc and @Ella, I started watching Run On because my daughter is a sprinter and I was curious about how the training would be portrayed. Not sure about the training, but I actually like it and there aren’t too many of the normal tropes.
The scenery is great, too. I’m not speaking of Siwan here. ☺️
I’m glad you find Jangjun entertaining @Fern 😁😃. Shameless promo, there are currently 13/14 eps of Jangstar and you can watch it if you want a good laugh 😁😂🙆🏻♀. The editing may be fast tho so idk 😅.
Also I would like an update of Siwan kiss in the future 😃🙏. Hope he now kiss on dramas, whoever his pairing be (preferably a kiss with Yoona in a future project, still salty about them not kissing on TKIL)
Siwan kiss is in Ep2 of Run On. 😮
Not much of a kiss, more of a peck. Alas, I do not feel any fluttering from the 2 main leads, kinda dry and no warm fuzzy feels. The show had good topics on bullying, diversity and discrimination. It’s also interesting to see the jobs of being an interpreter and athlete.
I really like Siwan in Misaeng and without a romantic angle. So maybe I’m not used to him as a romantic lead? The FL’s acting does not help either.
Thank you so much for all your post about Start Up. I am team Dosan since the beginning and I understand his character and how he has grown in those 3 years. I love how he is flawed,his character is so relatable. But reading all your posts helps me to understand him deeper and I’ve fallen I love more of his character, thanks to you.
Hi @hitome885
Welcome 👋🏻 Did you watch live or just recently? Packmule3 has created this safe haven for Team Geek Knitter. Feel free to share your thoughts.
@Ella Thanks for the explanation about 만에 하나! It’s great to have this insight that was lost in translation.
I also think JP had too much of an investor mind and was too risk averse even when it came to his personal life. I think he knew where Dalmi’s heart was so didn’t invest any effort to pursue her even when Dosan wasn’t around.