Lovers of the Red Sky: Ep 11 Q&A Thread

Sometimes it’s best just to have a question-and-answer session. Because I don’t have enough time, I’ll limit myself to four questions.

1. Who killed Haram’s father, Ha SeongJin?

According to the report of Prince Yul’s steward, “was found with his dead father when he was little, and the corpse of his father, Ha Seong Jin, looked lifeless and strange.”

However, it’s clear from HaRam’s memory that three people were killed after the ritual: his father, his mother, and his innocent self. And he blames the King for that.

His Royal Inquisitor Kim Gok Rae came for his father on the night his father was about to perform an exorcism rite on him. He heard his father asked, “Why are you doing this? It has already been 10 years since the abdicated King’s orders.” The Royal Inquisitor replied, “Even after a hundred years, the King’s orders are heaven’s orders.” The young Haram heard it and wondered, “King’s order?”

He also remembers that the following morning, he was dragged off to a caged cart as his mom screamed, “Do you mean to leave me with my husband’s corpse and take my son as well?” Again, the Royal Inquisitor announced that “It was the King’s orders.”

There’s an obvious disparity here. And I could only think of two possible reasons.

a. Prince Yul could have been fed disinformation by his steward. The event happened 19 years ago, and the villagers’ memories might have become impaired or distorted. The villagers’ memory of the death of his father could have been colored by their perception of evil residing in HaRam because he had red eyes. (Remember CheongKi being despised by the other kids because she was motherless, blind from birth, and raised by a mad father?)

b. HaRam’s memory could be faulty. All he heard was “It was the King’s orders.” I doubt that he imagined hearing that. But it’s possible that he also had one of his Mawang episodes that night which he couldn’t remember the following day. Samshin would have helped him subdue Mawang and erased his memory.

Note: There were hours when HaRam’s whereabouts were unaccounted for. The exorcism rite happened at nighttime. The King’s soldiers could have dragged HaRam with them after they killed his father. Instead, they picked him up in the morning when he was already back home with his mother.

2. Why did Prince Yul set his guards on HaRam and Cheongki?

Prince Yul feared that CheongKi was in danger because HaRam had a monster inside of him. It was a legit reason.

I must commend his treatment of HaRam. Considering that he’s in love with her, and knows HaRam is his rival, he doesn’t maltreat him.

a. He made sure that HaRam would get extra hay so he wouldn’t be cold in his cell.

b. When HaRam asked him about Cheongki, he answered, “Do not worry, she did. I had someone follow her and made sure she got back.” He could have answered HaRam that it was none of his business, and let HaRam stew in anxiety.

c. He apologized to HaRam.

HR: Do you remember? On the day we met for the first time in the palace, I fell because I could not see and you helped me up, and you said, “I’m sorry.” Why should Your Highness be sorry for my blindness? For my crime? Why should Your Highness have to be sorry?
Yul: I should be going.

d. And he explained why the following day.

Yul: On the day of the Seokcheok Rain Ritual, there was a fire at Gyeongwonjeon. I was looking at King Yeongjong’s royal portrait with Juhyang hyeongnim then. (He thought that portrait seemed truly alive.) I suspect Mawang’s seal was broken when the painting caught on fire and it entered your body.

Geez! Why didn’t he say so earlier? And how come his hyung, Prince2, didn’t come to this realization, too?

HR: Is that so?
Yul: I cannot believe Mawang was inside you all this time.
HR: How long has Your Highness known this?
Yul: I found out after the incident at Gyeongwonjeon.

He meant the latest one, not the fire 19 years ago.

Yul: (continuing) I still cannot forget how your nails grew longer and the look in your eyes changed. But you do not remember it because it is not your memory.
HR: If I had known this earlier, I would have bound myself in chains.
Yul: Are you admitting that you could harm another every time you lose your memories?
HR: Yes. I am.
Yul: You seem to realize how dangerous Mawang inside you is. So I will not ask further. Now there is only one path left for you. (standing up) Cooperate in the sealing ritual. That is the best for all of us and for you.

One path, one option…

For now, I’ll trust Prince Yul’s words. He wants HaRam to consent to having Mawang removed from him. He doesn’t plan on executing HaRam to get the demon out of his body. However, his “no matter what happens” is a statement of intent. He’ll throw HaRam under the bus if that’s the only way to get Mawang. As bad as this sounds, he’s beginning to think like the ruler of the nation here. The nation must be his #1 priority. Everybody else is secondary.

Yul: (says to himself) We must bring Mawang out from your body. No matter what happens.
HR: Then, I’d like to ask you one thing.
Yul: Go ahead.
HR: Are you certain that a royal portrait is required for the sealing ritual?
Yul: Yes.
HR: But that royal portrait cannot be drawn by just anyone unless they are a divine painter like Maiden Hong. Her father became mad after finishing King Yeongjong’s royal portrait. Can you be certain that it will not happen to her?

Yul: (flustered) That is—
HR: If the royal portrait is mandatory for the ritual, I do not wish to proceed with it.
Yul: Do you believe that finishing the royal portrait will harm Painter Hong?

Sigh… why does Prince Yul still sound doubtful that CheongKi will suffer once she restores the painting? Is he refusing to believe that there’s clear danger to her life?

But that’s the whole point of the promise he made to safeguard Cheongki (and her father) like his own life.

Remember this from Ep 10 (4:36)?

Cheongki: Could I also go mad like my father while painting the royal portrait?
Yul: I am not certain, but I cannot guarantee that nothing will happen. But I shall cherish and protect you as my own life.
Cheongki: But if something does go wrong with me, my father–
Yul: I promise I shall protect both you and your father.

That’s the sub from Viki. Here’s the screenshot from Kissasian.

In both versions, Prince Yul was aware of the risks involved in the restoration. So why is he still questioning HaRam whether Painter Hong will really suffer?

It seems to me that he’s being *romantic* again. He was spouting an empty promise back then if he didn’t truly understand the import of his words.

HR: I hear the painter who finishes King Yeongjong’s royal portrait will be cursed at the sealing ritual. Just as Painter Hong Eun Oh had.

They’re assuming that Mawang would respond to the exorcism in the same manner: that is, cursing everybody at the last second before he’s sealed in the painting. They don’t seem to know that the Hwacha, or the green goblin, was there too at the night of the exorcism, and that it’s back to protect its divine painter.

Yul: Is that true?

HR: Yes, Your Highness. Will you still insist on finishing the royal portrait? If you truly care for the maiden, please stop the royal portrait restoration.

This is HaRam protecting CheongKi again.

3. The Divine Painting

To me, this is the divine painting. 🙂

But it can be her keepsake, too, when he’s gone.

Prince Yul knew that the King’s portrait wasn’t the divine painting, so he had the Royal Court Shaman (she’s not evil shaman) come to perform the rite on it. But it’s obvious that he was also covering up for Cheongki. He had an inkling that the painting wouldn’t work, but he didn’t tell the King.

He asked CheongKi, “Do you truly not realize why it did not have divine power?” Meaning, he already realized why it didn’t have supernatural powers. Sighing, he continued, “Please, at least while you paint the royal portrait, forget about Supervisor Ha. That is the only way. I beg of you.”

In other words, CheongKi had to empty her mind of all thoughts of HaRam and simply focus on the painting.

That’s the reason CheongKi was fated to make an eternal BOWL. I think it’s a symbolic bowl; it doesn’t have to look like this, though.

source: phillips.com lucie rie

But when you think about this, what is the essence of a bowl? What makes a bowl a bowl? Isn’t it its inner space? A plate is not a bowl because it isn’t hollow. A bowl is a bowl because there’s an empty space in the middle.

The bowl must be first empty for it to contain something. Once the bowl is filled with something, it cannot contain anything else. And once it cannot contain something, it ceases to be a bowl.

Its emptiness is the essence of the bowl. And you don’t have to take my word for this. Lao Tzu said it first. “Mold clay into a bowl. The empty space makes it useful.”

Thus, for the Royal Painting to become a vessel for Mawang, it has to be emptied of any feelings or attachments of Cheongki for HaRam.

4. What’s the soliloquy of Haram all about?

Beginning at the 9 minute mark, Haram was shown in solitary confinement.

Because of the Chinese script that appeared as he spoke, the first impression I got was that he was writing a love letter to her, and that he meant this letter to be read by her when he was gone (or dead).

But when I watched this again, I think this can also be his soliloquy he tries to reflect on this past event in the future. In other words, he can be writing his thoughts down in retrospect or in hindsight.

According to Kissasian sub, he said,

“The smell of peach flowers returns each spring, but I can no longer see the girl who was there. I lost my sight and warmth and vowed to get revenge. When we met again on the path, I could no longer see you, yet your painting made me smile. The woman made me shudder like a branch before a storm. The memories are gone and only nightmares remain, breaking my heart. You demand I prove my love by parting with you. Is this something I deserve or is this a curse?”

The Viki sub is almost similar except for the last two lines. According to the Viki version, Haram said, “He says to prove our love by parting. Is it a curse or retribution?”

I think the Viki sub is correct in the first line. CheongKi didn’t demand that he leave her to prove his love for her. It was Prince Yul. So the “he” in question is Prince Yul.

However, I think the Kissasian sub is correct in the second line. HaRam was wondering whether his troubled life, and his separation from her, were heaven’s idea of fairness or curse for him. What had he done to deserve all this misery heaped on him?

He was bitter about his circumstances.

In a way, he’d become like the young CheongKi who wondered why she had all the bad luck of being born blind, motherless and raised by a mad father.

11 Comments On “Lovers of the Red Sky: Ep 11 Q&A Thread”

  1. Kalimera!

    @Packmule3, I read your questions and answers. I really like this format as well. As you have said, sometimes we don’t have time.

    Regarding your first question, I wanted to say that I don’t believe that HaRam killed his father. Since Samshin sealed MaWang inside HaRam’s body in that Salamander ritual, I don’t think that within a day there was a manifestation that led to Ha SeongJin’s demise.
    I believe that your first hypothesis is correct. Prince Yul was misled by his steward and the distorted memories of the villagers.

    Another explanation we should look at is the following:
    If we take the flashback as true, then Ha SeongJin might got involved in a spiritual – magic fight with the Shaman Lady Mi Su and lost the battle.
    She was responsible for the human sacrifice, without the King’s knowledge. His anger could be aimed at her and only her.

    If that is the case then Prince Yul is ignorant of the magic powers the Shamans and the Magi of the Taoist Bureau are having. Instead of accusing HaRam, he could question if someone else killed him, but you said so why Yu reacted like that.

    Regarding Prince Yul, I also think he apologized to HaRam because his Royal Family brought havoc to the lives of his two – should I say beloved – subjects / friends / persons that matter to him.

    I truly believe that he will kill HaRam in an instant and he will do so eagerly. For that reason, I believe that he is worse than his brother Prince Hul, that we know that is evil and doesn’t hide his emotions from us.

    Prince Yul will save the nation that is true, but we get to see that History is repeating itself.

    The previous King was corrupted by the absolute power he got with MaWang. The new generation aka Prince Hul hungers for the throne. They continue with their evil deeds, but they are condemning innocents who are helping them along the way like they did in the past.

    It is interesting that we got to see how much the Baekyu Headmaster cares for Cheong Gi for instance, as she is his own daughter in contrast with the Royal Painter Ahn Gyeon, who was just envious of Hong Eun-O and doesn’t care if Cheon Gi goes mad. As long she does her duty to the Royals and asks for Goblin’s help along the way.

    I am not sure if HaRam’s portrait is the eternal bowl. I will go for now that it will become her keepsake. Cheon Gi returned empty handed to Baekyu Painting Society. So, who has it?

    As for your last question, I think you have nailed it.

    He felt helpless that’s what I got from that scene. He felt helpless that he couldn’t do anything regarding his Fate.

    That scene reminded me in its intensity, the torment Lee Gon was having in Episodes 15-16 of TK:EM. He was debated what was best, in order to save the two words. We all know he decided to sacrifice himself to follow that Fate.

  2. @Cleopatra,

    In one sense, HaRam can be described as bipolar. 🙂 His good side is HaRam. That’s where Mawang resides.

    But he’s channeling his bad side into Il Wol Seong. Mawang doesn’t know this. If Il Wol Seong decides to take advantage of the Mawang inside of him, he’d be invincible.

    I haven’t completed Ep 12.

  3. @Packmule3,

    Mmm. I haven’t thought of that.

    If we take that into consideration, I don’t think the plot will go there.
    I believe that the good side inside him wins and takes the fall as well.
    He will prefer to be sacrificed in order to save Cheon Gi.

    I will wait then, until you do!

  4. He needs to reconcile his HaRam side with his Il Wol Seong side sooner or later. 🙂

    Agree. HaRam’s primary instinct is protecting her. That isn’t the same with Prince Yul — as it should be, if he’s going to be King.

    Just go ahead and discuss Ep 12. 🙂 No sense in waiting for me since I don’t know when I can finish it. I don’t mind spoilers.

  5. @Packmule3,

    Okay then. I will write some more.
    To be honest with you I need to rewatch them. We got uncovered many aspects that were hidden and I want to be certain about some things first.

    For instance, let’s talk about Prince Hul. I feel that he was utterly devastated by his father’s decision. He was not expecting that his right to the throne would be denied. Kwak Si-Yang portrayed the emotions very well. I was impressed.

  6. Kwak SiYang is a good actor.

    And I’ve always liked his persona. I couldn’t even hate his character in that crappy drama, “Alice” because I just knew the actor wouldn’t accept a role where he was painted totally wicked. Perhaps conflicted and unscrupulous but not totally demonic.

    In the end, a villain with a compelling human flaw.

    That’s the role I always assumed this actor would take.

    So here, he’s done it again in Prince Yul. And I’m glad he has the acting chops to perform it well.

    Not like some 😷 cough cough cough 😷 mediocre actor who thinks he can win me over with his dimples and a flash of his smile. 😈

    In my not-so-humble opinion, Kwak SiYang is a stronger actor than Kim Seonho and will make a better lead.

    Kwak SiYang is 34.
    Kim Seonho is 35.

    Kwak SiYangis 6’2.
    Kim Seonho is 6.

    And I don’t know how accurate this is, but according to Wikipedia, Kwak SiYang graduated with an Environmental and Civil Engineering degree from Dankook University. If this is true, then this actor is not dumb. He isn’t just a pretty face.

    Kim Seonho?
    😂 I checked. He got a degree from the Department of Broadcasting and Entertainment from Seoul Institute of the Arts. He’s the pretty face.

  7. Dear @Packmule3,

    I haven’t watched “Alice”, but I know that someone who plays a bad character means that he/she “digs” inside his/her psyche, in order to portray such a complex and evil character. So, I give kudos to Kwak Si Yang for that.

    To be honest with you, I like Kwak SiYang more than Kim Seon Ho.
    It is good to learn that he has brains too and not only a pretty face and body. Visuals are okay, but brains mean a lot…*winks*

    As Prince Hul, he nailed it in Episode 12. I saw that you wrote Yul, but I got it. 😀

  8. @Cleopatra, the other reason Kwa k Si Yang’s engineering degree stuck in my mind is that he didn’t start out looking to capitalize on his appearance. 😂

    After high school, he thought he had the aptitude for math and interest to be an engineer and he pursued that track and completed his studies.

    To me, this is a far cry from somebody who starts off college wanting to become an entertainer, actor, model or idol.

    I get that everybody has his/her own talent and destiny and so on. But the fact is the scholarship is just plain different between an engineer and actor, especially an actor with a middling performance.

    And like you, I’ve a preferential bias for nerds and geeks.

  9. @Packmule3,

    I like your train of thought. I loved algebra when I was younger.
    So, yes having a math mind means a lot. To become an engineer is not an easy thing at all.

    Yes, we have that preferential bias for nerds and geeks.
    I won’t deny it. I dated one supernerd. 🙂

  10. Kalimera!

    SBS uploaded a video without subs, that give us a chronicle of the incidents that led HaRam to orchestrate his revenge. In the first part we get to see that his Father was performing a ritual on HaRam, when the King’s Guard came to kill him.

    More here:

  11. Pingback: Lovers of the Red Skies: Ep 13 Q&A – Bitches Over Dramas

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