I’m opening this thread so it’s easier to organize and find the discussion on this drama. I’m assuming we’re all pining for more of Junho after “Red Sleeve.”
Enjoy!
270 Comments On “Just Between Lovers: Open Thread”
Comments are closed.
I’m opening this thread so it’s easier to organize and find the discussion on this drama. I’m assuming we’re all pining for more of Junho after “Red Sleeve.”
Enjoy!
Comments are closed.
Howdy! That’s a very good assumption. I am pining for more JunHo. ☺️
Kumawo! 🙇🏻♀️
I’m still trying to get my thoughts together after watching the ending for The Red sleeve.
Heheheheh! @pkml3. Thanks! I wonder if this means individuals might do a JBL watch or rewatch out of the blue! Can we take to more bleeding of our hearts just after The Red Sleeve Cuff? 😂
Since this thread is here, let me post again the link to Variety Recaps, the only place I went to, to read recaps for this show (poor show was mostly ignored by other sites) and to post in.
Here’s the recap for Episode 1: https://varietyrecaps.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/just-between-lovers-ep-1/
Just thinking about show makes me feel both sad and hopeful at the same time.
I think I saw this while scrolling in Netflix but the title is “Rain or Shine”. Hmm, I like it that an actor changes his look for a character and one can differentiate it. Jun Ho looked different in this show. In the preview, Nam De Reum played his younger self. Although I did not watch the Red Sleeve, I may give this a try.
I have watched this on Netflix, I like it, Junho played the role well, and for me the chemistry is there between him and Won Jin Ah, and I also think that she is a better at kissing on screen than Lee S Yeong. LSY’s fans please don’t stone me -✌🏼
Brilliant! Thank you Packmule3… I will re-watch from the start and more slowly to savour this show now and all the wonderful moments…if there is a momentum. Hoorah!
‘I like men who eat carrots’
When I watch this show I always feel like I’m the friend that gets lifted into the taxi—When she’s giddily snickering about the FL’s “bad taste in men”.Yes Junho was great, but it was his relationship interactions not only with the female lead, but even more so everyone else. his family-blood and not, his best friend, his best friends mom, the second FL, his co workers, the ceo…even the liver story didn’t bother me when it would usually elicit an eye roll and zero emotion. Actually there’s a lot to unpack here. Even with the FL and her relationship with her parents and the unraveling of their marriage. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts. I do remember PM3 stating she dropped because it was too depressing for her and I imagine others feel that way as well
@birdie007 @Kate @AhjummaF4 @Janey @agdr03
If you’re all game to discuss JBL/Rain or Shine, we can do it now that we’ve got this thread.
Would you like to start chatting about Episode 1? 🙂
I am interested in watching this drama.
@packmule3, Thank you for opening this thread. A younger Junho shows his talent, also giving us action cuts. I think that as he ages he will become one of South Korea’s greats. I just watched him in the movie Homme Fatale where he played comic and serious. I will now watch him in anything.
But getting back to this drama, also showing on Netflix as Rain or Shine, I am also taken by the subject matter. The drama has historical precedent in South Korea and in the US, reminds us if the recent collapse in if be the Surfside Tower in Florida. It reminds us that these events capture the BB public’s sympathy and imagination for too brief a time, but longer for a lifetime with the survivors and the deceased’s family and friends. It also brings up the collapse of the twin towers after 9/11. This drama personalized the trauma felt by so many and that makes it so important and difficult to watch.
Hi @Snow Flower, great! Please do join us. You may even be inspired to compose a melody, an ode to the human spirit that rises above tragedy and trauma. 🙂
I’m actually starting to watch Episode 1 again now, as I type LOL. I re-read the recap (link in my other post above) but there’s nothing like re-watching the show to see how it grabs one, years later!!!
OK, I won’t add spoilers in this post. We can add the Episode Number and *SPOILER* *SPOILER* SPOILER tags as a warning so that first-time watchers will know not to read beyond a certain paragraph. 🙂
Hi @OAL, yes, the tragedy hits close somehow, even when I have no direct contact with victims. It’s true that we forget too soon, or we welcome the new distractions, so that we do not need to remember and to feel. The element of natural human reaction or lack thereof, over time, comes through so strongly in this story.
In tribute to those who were lost and those who survived and their families, we watch this show (once again).
@GB… Yes! I will watch ep 1 this evening and make comments about it.
Really glad we are doing this! Double the enjoyment.
Kalispera! Thank you @Packmule3 for starting this thread!
I have it on my Netflix list for a couple of weeks after a friend of mine told me that she watched it and it was wonderful.
I want something light at the moment, so I don’t know if I will watch this after the finish of The Red Sleeve Cuff.
@Cleo, if you want something light then I do not recommend JBL. Something light, romantic, funny, sometimes OTT is The Secret Life of My Secretary. It is loads of fun. It might make a good watch or rewatch after ‘The Red Sleeve Cuff’. 🙂
@(GB) I agree that JBL ight be too depressing for some. There are lots of lighter weight dramas that are helpful to watch to decompress. I have a Junho movie to recommend, Homme Fatale, where he plays a male gisaeng. Some of it is very funny, while beneath the surface 5here are c serious themes. And then if you want Lee J7nho dramas, there’s Wok of Love and Good Manager.
I get it that for some the story might be depressing but I like how the story explore the aftermath of the tragedy, the traumatic experience it left on those who were linked to what happened, be it close family members or not. How it created a tsunami effect on the people’s relationships, how they cope with it to carry on living, with some, more emotionally scarred than others, some choosing to bottle it up or just erasing it from their memory, but everyone is effected, coping in their own ways to continue living. The story tried to look into the human psyche and how every individual re-act to things that happened around them, shaping their world view towards life. How they find peace with what happened and move on to the next stage of their life. Everyone had a closure.
Yes, precisely @AhjummaF4. It’s because Show respected the pain and its ripple effects which society never acknowledged, how it portrayed people living with the trauma and pain for years after but who were expected to be okay without help and how the wounded survivors themselves brought closure for themselves and others connected to the tragedy, that this Show becomes far from just depressing, to immensely warm and healing. 🙂
I agree with these last points…I tried to watch some fun dramas after ‘The Red Sleeve’ but I found this drama really energyising and engaging because of the way the story was established, the opening sequence, the way the characters meet one another, the way the ‘back story’ emerges but is hinted at in the present. I didn’t find it depressing to watch and I am someone who enjoys her escapist entertainment! I needed something high quality to watch after TRS. This was it (along with My Mr).
*energising*!
There are also many of the usual K-drama tropes in JBL… just very well done and foundational to the plot… they make for an engaging watch!
[Speaking of tropes…I am also struck by the number of bus scenes… have the BODers ever analysed the use of buses and bus stops in K-drama?]
@GB I am holding back from commenting on early episodes, btw. Are we good to go yet?
Hi @Kate, yes, good to go! Just add in the Episode number and the SPOILER tags if necessary for information that may be for episodes beyond Episode 1 for now. Read ya soon!!
@kate
Have you watched Some day or One Day? Or Another Oh Hae Young?
I feel like you’d enjoy both of those
@Birdie… I loved ‘Another Oh Haye Young’ (what a great title for a drama!)…
I don’t know ‘Some day or One day’… will check it out!! Thank you.
Episode One
Compelling from the start – an episode that scene sets while hooking you in for the long haul…
Despite the synopsis, the way the show told the story of the shopping mall collapse still managed to take me by surprise. The way Moon Soo experienced and remembered it was so well captured. Normal reality and hopes fractured with the destruction of the mall. I felt I was there with her.
Against that jarring backdrop – I now want to know more about our present day characters …. and the way their lives will intermesh and what will and will not be resolved …
I wasn’t sure I was going to like or care about the male and female leads… needn’t have worried… The FL and ML were allowed to unfold in a way that you saw their individuality and quality as people despite all the signs of the damaging impact of the collapse of the Shopping Mall in their lives. I found myself caring about them sooner than I expected in this first episode.
Junho’s Gang Doo is leonine, scrappy and at the same time – at his best – whip smart and confident and ‘in your face’. Very attractive and helped me switch off from Y San! Apparently Junho really got into this character and had a hard time saying goodbye to his role having to distract himself to do so.
Moon Soo is well acted. For me her character shows herself through her actions rather than through a very wide range of emotional expression… all fine of course and I may disagree with myself as I watch this again. This may be to do with the actress herself and the way she engages with her role. One problem – I struggled to forget the physical dissimilarity between the two actresses playing Moon Soo and at times it created a plot bump for me…Gang Doo commenting on Moon Soo ‘Have I seen her somewhere before?’ didn’t ring true to me because I couldn’t see how he would recognise her based on the way she used to look! Lol
That’s it from me for now…
Retrospective SPOILER Alert SPOLER Alert
Sincere apologies… I may have added something which occurs in ep 2 in my reflections on ep 1.
When I first watched this show, I wasn’t familiar with either of the lead actors and wasn’t sure this was something I wanted to watch, but I’m a sucker for the healing genre of K-dramas so I gave it a go and it just blew me and my meager expectations away!! This show is such a great look at trauma and how it impacts lives differently. I don’t view it as depressing, rather this is what it looks like to move through life having experienced profound tragedy. I know everyone raves about Junho as Gang Soo, but to me Won Jin Ah as Moon Soo is the revelation! The way the actress conveys her hurt, grief, and guilt is just phenomenal! I’ve come out of the shadows to jump in on this discussion. I very much feel like these are real life people that we’re getting a glimpse of and not actors. It just feels very real! I was hooked from the very first episode.
@Kate, When I first started to watch K Dramas I was amazed by the fact that there c was so much use of public transit. Being an American TV watcher, the operative mode of transportation is automobile. Busses are only used by poor people here and in some places they are nonexistent. I have also learned, that unlike most busses in New York City(except for express busses), the street bus system runs 24/7, whereas in ourcK Dramas much is made of there being a last bus-if you miss it you’re screwed. Also, in more rural communities there are busses.This whole thing if busses was very striking to me and you see them in most dramas that are not historical.
On occasion you also see subways where one character falls asleep on somebody’s shoulder(happens on busses too). 8 m also love the long distance high speed trains. One of my favorite movies, Mood of the Day happens on the railroad to Busan. If t seen that movie you haven’t, I highly recommend it. It stars Yoo Yeon-seok as a playboy sports agent and Moon Chae-won as a. Somewhat uptight account executive with an undercurrent of basketball. Train travel plays a big role here.
The other form of v transit that is pretty universal is taxi cabs. I have read that cabs are fairly inexpensive in Seoul and are used mainly by heavy drinkers or coming from hospitals, airports and hotels.
2here there are cars, there are professional designated drivers. What a great idea.
K Dramas view of everyday travel is so great because it supports public transit and in many ways is ecologically sound.
@Kate, Agree that this is very well done. The secondary characters are also fleshed out. The young architect(who is slightly lower than primary) has his own demons. Mari is complex and her hostess role is not entirely what we think. The ahjumma drug dealer is unexpected. The paraplegic friend just wants to be like a physically able young woman. Many of the characters are not clichéd.
I also want to mention how the costuming tells each character story. The settings also are evocative. And there is great attention to detail regarding the professions of architecture and contracting. That detail is one v of my favorite thing about k dramas-you get those nuts and bolts that give you a minicourse in whatever the subject is.
I am five c episodes in and am hooked.
I have watched this drama 3 times already – I like it so much. Will get back to this thread soon on the scenes I like, which I’m not doing yet because some of you haven’t reached those episodes yet (e.g.one of my all-time favorite backhugs). It gets better and better – the love story, push and pull as the drama progresses. Both Junho and Wom Jin Ah get into the skin of the characters and the OST is mesmerizing. I have so many favorite songs, some of them have beautiful English lyrics❤
Welcome to the blog, @Jules. I hope you’ll enjoy the company here.
Yes this drama may be hard going at first and make us hesitate to invest. I thought at the time they have already started off from the bottom, so what can be worse? This is unlike TRS which started off cute and funny, but heading towards the history which is already set. TRS got us easily invest and mourn later.
Junho is also very into the character here, I can easily forget he is an elegant well dressed Crown Prince/King elsewhere.
I know right Phoenix! I am waiting for the favourite scenes and I love the OST! I didn’t even realise Junho sang one of those until later on I saw the names of the singers when listening to the OTS on youtube.
By the way, the Happiness team, is MS’s friend Writer Na?
Ep 1
MS seems to be a good girl. A memorable line:
“Only 48 people? No. 48 people died. That many.” For someone who went through and for someone who is just a bystander. 48 has a completely different meaning.
When GD and MS met again on the stairs, GD seems like the tough one who pulls MS up. He is the one who save MS from falling. He is higher and MS is lower. When I first watched, I thought it is just for dramatic effect. Now I rewatched, I understand that scene. Wait till later I will explain why I think that 🙂
What do you think of GD smashing the memorial? He is always so angry, but I can understand as life gives him a raw deal. GD appears roughed and will do any gangster type job for money but his words left an impression, he is deeper than he appears. He said to the director,
“You look down at the world from up here. Do people look like nothing to you?”
@Jules – hello! Agreed – they find themselves in ‘lives of quiet desperation’ but are moving forward and it is energising and uplifting even if it is tough-going.
@OAL – I hadn’t thought about the way buses and public transport would strike a US viewer.. interesting post. I like the way buses mark points in the story and decisions to get on and get off and join people or not join people.
Non-cliched secondary characters…what a breath of fresh air.
@Phoenix… I think I know which especially satisfying back hug you mean but will hold my peace!
@Viva – yes quite! Reversal of the direction we experienced in TRS! Do elaborate later on the significance of the meeting on the stairs!
I loved the wrist/arm grab too when she was peering over the injured, bloodied Gang Doon lying like an injured stray cat in the side of the alley. That got me!
I don’t know about other people but I was personally ok with the smashing of the memorial and it produced such a good plot line that I felt the writer was in favour too!
Annie watching this as my go-to drama.Although the themes are painful, the leads and some of the other characters are fighting to live better lives. The female lead is a revelation. I want to see her in more because her performance, while not flashy, is powerful bin it’s quiet depiction of pain.i had been shipping Junho with SeYoung but now realize that he acts so beautifully with all his leading ladies that if I were to ship him with all of them, he’d have a harem💜.
I think he br ok ke the memorial for several reasons. Compared to the human destruction in lives, injuries(physical and emotional) the memorial was hypocritical in it’s small size and almost hidden presence. This spoke to the actual low regard it’s builders had for the victims. For someone who lost so much, he needed to viscerally express his anger. Those who still owned the land priced their venality by expressing the loss if this memorial in monetary terms.
All around there is so much to live about this drama b we cause there are real, not for the sake of drama, here.
I’m on episode 3 and Junho doesn’t disappoint. I don’t mind WJA as well. I thought her breakdown scene when she was asking her Mom to tell her if she wants to die was so good.
I like the set up of the connection for every character. The story is heavy but I like it. I can’t wait for the back hug now. ☺️
I see familiar faces in this drama. There’s Goong’s Queen Mama here, Dalia, Start Up Unnie and the others too but I can’t recall their dramas. 😃
Opps I meant Dali 🤦🏻♀️ Whose Dalia? 😂
@agdr03: Girlfriend there is a svene later where she goes to console him at his place after a major loss (no spoilers here on what that was). He holds her hand in the dark and says: I told you to leave. If you don’t leave now, I will not ever let go of this hand. (My stomach always does a weird flip at that point🙈 You can see I even remember the dialogues😝) So lots of poignant and romantic good stuff to come. What I love about this drama is how healing, deep and quiet their love is, no loud displays but quiet acceptance and comfort – exactly how love should be. They speak through their eyes and gestures. Can’t believe this was one of Junho’s first dramas.
Btw for those who were thinking of trying out Wok of Love, Junho gets totally sidetracked there by Jang Hyuk as the story focuses on the love triangle with more footage given to the senior actor than Junho. That’s why I didn’t complete it. I didn’t like the FL too.
@agdr03 Is Dali in this? I only recognized the second FL as the ex-Gumiho friend from My Roommare is a Gumiho.
I like the Halmoni in this a lot❤
Oooh a scene where I’m here for you and with you! ❤️ Looking forward to it @Phoenix girlfriend. Kumawo!
Yes, Dali is here. She’s Moon Soo’s officemate. Oh true, the second FL is the ex gumiho as well as Start Up Unnie.
Yes, Halmoni is good too. ☺️
@Phoenix yes I also didn’t finish Wok of Love for the same reason as you. I didn’t care for the main characters. If I want to watch more Junho, I might try Chief Kim.
I went back to re-read old comments about JBL and I saw again how loved this show was even at its first airing. An interesting thing about the romance part of this Show is that the OTP’s meetings are so few and so short at the beginning, that Show builds our appetite for more interactions. Their growing closer was so gradual, that it was never a question as to why they became a couple. Their final coming together felt so earned. 🙂
Hi all,
Wondering how we want to pace this discussion?
Those of you who have done re-watches – new for some and new watches for others- before will have experience of what
For people who are watching this for the first time, would you be ready to move on to ep 2 at the weekend, on Saturday for instance? Or do we do clusters of episodes – 2 at a time?
Sorry – *…new watches for some and re-watches for others.*
I was wondering that too, @Kate. I want to gush on some scenes but am holding back as I don’t want to spoil the experience for others who haven’t watched those yet.
I need to know when I can let go of my restraint 😜
Btw I’m so happy everyone is finally discovering this gem of a drama. As @GB said, the love stoey progeesses so beautifully and organically that it feels perfect. I think it is a very underrated drama, just as Junho was underrated tull Red Sleeve.
@GB I didn’t watch Chief Kim/Good Manager because again Junho isn’t the main lead, and Namkoong Min like Jang Hyuk gives me an ahjusshi feeling🙈🙈
@Pheonix – yes – it feels like a lot of people are having to hold back because they are watching more than a few episodes at a time or have seen the whole thing.
[So agree re it being underrated… it may have been you who recommended it somewhere in the Red Sleeve Cuff discussion, Pheonix – I wouldn’t have known to watch it otherwise.]
Hi @Phoenix and @Kate, I feel that you can just go on and gush but leave a little tag so that those who want to avoid the spoiler will ignore the paragraphs.
For eg.
EPISODE 3
*SPOILER*
EPISODE 3
*SPOILER*
I like the way – despite the trauma of survivor’s guilt, where Moon Soo (and even Gang Doo) are more defeatist than they might otherwise be – that Moon Soo is perfectly clear that she wants to be alive.
She wanted to speak with GD to clear up a wrong impression and went limping back to look for him. He’s surprised to see her but hands her a dough stick that he just bought. (I like his natural generosity. He just gives or helps, expecting nothing in return).
MS to GD : “It’s true that I thought it won’t be weird even if I died now.” (The thought that they do not really have the right to the life they live or the habit to easily accept death as expected? … an aspect of survivor’s guilt?)
GD : “Pardon?”
MS : “It’s not true that I wanted to die.”
GD : “It’s good then.”
MS : “Thank you for saving me. (She indicates the dough stick.) I’ll eat this well.”
She limps off. GD smiles at her back. The girl he’d been looking at when he was 15 years old, and now again 12 years later, was finally bothering to look him up.
This is the first conversation in which MS explains herself. Before this at the bus stop, she had suddenly started opening up to let him know where she lived (and how to find her, by giving him the name of her mum’s bath house). This is a big step for the rather reserved Moon Soo.
Maybe her friend, Wan Jin’s comment that she didn’t know how to judge men, and that Wan Jin called dibs on GD, had gotten under her skin a bit? 🙂
@Kate, I’ll do whatever the group decides.i’m a bit ahead but will slow down if your suggestion is decided
I’ll get to savor it more and won’t speed through another very satisfying drama.
@GB, @OAL, @Phoenix,
What about a compromise in that case and sticking to reflecting together on the first 4 eps and then moving on to the next 4 and so on. I wonder whether it may help us stay focused on particular phases and developments to limit the scope at each stage?
What think ye?
I’m okay with that approach, @Kate. Whatever the group decides is fine with me too.
@Kate @Phoenix, that’s fine too. We can talk about the first 4 episodes this week and after Sunday, the next 4 or less. It’s fine as long as the episode number and spoiler warning is there.
One of my most favorite dramas – I just re-watched it because it showed up on Netflix as “Rain or Shine”
@GB and @Phoenix – great!
Let’s do that and as you suggest @GB and cover eps 1 to 4 and then move on to eps 5 to 8 after Sunday + make clear use of episode numbers and spoiler alerts for people who are watching at a different rate so we don’t spoil their enjoyment.
That will give us some focus, a nice rhythm and keep the discussion at a reasonable pace.
@Kate, sounds like a good plan to me. It gives everyone time to catch up without being onerous.
EPISODES ONE to FOUR SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT
We are now planning to cover this show four episodes at a time. We will discuss the first four episodes until end of play on Sunday.
I have re-watched and here are just some of the far too many things to comment upon that struck me from Episodes 2-4.
Episode 2
So we discover in another recap that teenage Gang Du took a fancy to teenage Moon Su. He enjoyed watching her putting on lippie unaware she was being watched from inside the ice cream bar… and then the glass shatters… Innocence and youthful dreams also shattered.
I really enjoyed second lead actress who appears in this ep…in ‘My Roommate is a Gumiho’ but there is something a bit samey about her performance here… She doesn’t come across as real …more of a plot device.
On the other hand Moon Soo’s beauty conscious office frenemy (didn’t recognise the actress – how versatile is she?!) is fun and unpredictable.
I enjoyed the encounter between ML and second ML and their shared project… glad they were now on the same side at that point and there is the beginning of mutual respect.
In his key conversation with Moon Su at the end of this episode, what is Gang Du referencing when he talks about people only looking after themselves when faced with death? It only occurs to me now that he has remembered who she is and is angry about the way things unfolded on the day of the disaster??
Ep 3
Great characters around our main leads …especially , in my opinion, the world of people with whom GD shares his life. The variety and the rich back stories allow our leads to shine and demonstrate aspects of character…Gang Du’s housemate and yet again Gang Du’s ‘Grandma ‘ (a surprising relationship that delights in the way that the similar type of relationship in ‘ Start Up’ delighted. And this old lady and the way they met avoids some of the usual cliches!
The decisiveness and gentleness and respectful communication with which Gang Du carries MS’s friend out of the wheelchair and places her in the taxi. Loved that. He takes care of everything. Mmmmm.. gruff and gorgeous.
MS falls into a hole in the building site… and encounters a deep hopelessness…. GD shows up….‘Take my hand’… so the past re-presents itself again and again with new opportunities for our leads to learn to trust and rely on someone else. Far from wanting to avoid him now…MS is getting more and more curious about this man. So natural and organic.
I got the tingles when MS asked GD why he destroyed the memorial, A weighty moment.
Ep 4
I really enjoy the growing connection between GD and MS and their sparky conversations… loving their soju-beer session. He is so gruff and sharp and attractive all at the same time and she is clearly on the slippery slope into full blown attraction to him … Then he belts out the Bulldog Mansion song to demonstrate he is a fan and distract her from his real meaning when talking about the band !!!
Loving the interactions and as @Phoenix put it… the wonderful push-pull of them…. So natural.
GD and MS’s interactions are getting warmer and lighter and funnier and more comfortable and they now have a shared task. So enjoyable to watch.
Gorgeous scene at 20’ 41 where GD walks along against an evening sky….great sound track at this point too… watches football players… meaningful.
Loving the exchange between MS and GD on the stairs and going forward…
c 49 minutes in. She is gradually being welcomed into his world… and she’s also very curious and determined and open to that.
Then again the past breaks into the present and we encounter more of GD’s pain…
On another note, the second male lead is warming up in his interactions with MS… he is charming but I am rooting of course for the compelling GD. At this point I do wonder if the second lead with his charm and ethics and intelligence will sway our female lead and what type of competition will be born of the two men in her life being so closely connected? Is anyone rooting for the second lead at this point?
@Kellasandra – it is now in my top ten. An unexpected gem of a drama.
@OAL I know right, he acts naturally with his co-stars, generally understated. More like people who cares in real life. It makes the romance believable. I can’t help but think what would his real-life girlfriend (if there is one) thinks. Or in general, the partners of any celebrities. Dating them is a bit like what DI would face. Not much freedom, a lot of can’t dos, under public eyes, don’t get to spend much time with them and have to accept anything that comes with their partners’ job descriptions.
@GB @Phoenix I finished Wok of Love solely because of TRS and Junho. The second half when someone is eliminated from the love triangle it is a better watch. Also by then, it is easier to fast forward or do something else and just have it in the background when the story lines have quite clearly divided. I do find the storyline of Wok of love average, especially after watching JBL which is very thought provoking. The selling points for me are the yummy food, Junho is a rather convincing cook and
*spoiler starts*
a drunk Junho that can be quite cute to watch, sweet moments and a straight forward ending.
*Spoiler ends
Back to JBL, EPISODE 2
Spoiler
I found the smashing of memorial, somewhat refreshing. After the initial survival, what do people who been through it really want? Do they want to remember it at all? Or is it just for other people around them felt they have done something to compensate them? Or to the manager, who are totally unrelated – he probably doesn’t pay much attention to it and couldn’t understand why someone wants to destroy it. He doesn’t care at all.
I like GD and MS dynamics. GD admires the MS has a Mum too wanting more rice.
Won Jin Ah’s performance in that conversation to her mum after the suspected suicide, is so amazing and heart breaking. Who could tell it is her first drama!
@Kate – is this where the first bus stop encounter in ep 2?
GD: Isn’t this bus stop absurd?
MS Sorry?
MS: Look, “Space S Mall”, It disappeared ages ago
But to MS, the bus stop “Space S Mall” reminds her the memories of her sister. It doesn’t disappear.
This first bus trip. GD watches MS from the back, sitting on separate sides of the bus. He followed her to find out where she works.
By the way, do you get why GD doesn’t want to live with his sister? I haven’t quite worked it out. Is it because it is odd to live with an adult sister without parents around? Is it because he already left home before their mum died?
Playground scene- is this the first one? Other than the bus scenes I also love the playground scenes. Does GD miss his mum so he wants to talk to Granny, who is almost like a mum to him?
Granny: You look fine on the outside, but you aren’t.
I think that pretty much sums up GD’s character.
Night club scene: Knowing what is ahead of it, GD still walks in the room and just put up with it. He doesn’t even want the money. He is pragmatic, pride can be put aside for his friend survival.
The director is really the public enemy for now.
@Kate, I’m so happy about this space. The theme of survivor guilt dominates this drama. Our leads all directly and indirectly experience it and it hits when they least expect it. We also know where on her family hierarchy our FL stands and it’s almost rock bottom. The little sister model and mom hold top positions while Dad and FL serve the two. I was taken by who had the cell phone-little sister. Our FL pre-building collapse just wanted to be a teen. She wanted to meet a boy. Her sister was working but nearby. Our FL did not go unscathed-she c was trapped and in a precarious condition. She could have died. Fate was unkind to her. We see her character spending her life paying back from working at her mother’s sauna to her choice of profession making architectural models. She also doesn’t seem to have time for leisure because she is constantly working. We also don’t overtly see her pain in the c earliest v episodes. She is good at hiding. And although our handsome architect on whom she is crushing seems kind to her, he, too, has secrets and may not have our female leads best interests at heart. I want to scream beware to her whenever she interacts with handsome architect.
Just a second time Junho recommendation. Hecstars in Homme Fatale, a movie where he plays a male gusaeng. The movie turns serious at the end, but the beginning of 5he movie is very funny. Our guy can do comedy. His wig makes him look awkward, nevertheless he shines through. He is also a fine scene partner here. His Leading lady is Jung SO-min. It doesn’t require a huge rptime commitment because it’s a movie.
I also just realized that Lee Se-Young was the leading lady opposite Ji Sung(I love him) in Dr. John and is in a five episode drama How Are You Bread, where her hair is blonde. I also didn’t know she was a child act o r beginning at age 4.
EPISODE 1-4
*SPOILERS*
@Kate
What I like about character depictions in Korean dramas is that enemies can easily become frenemies and just as easily become allies (even if it was just a means to make use of another person). That’s the case in this Show.
Gang Doo and Joo Won were not enemies, but neither would they ever have been friends in the normal run of their lives, except for the tragedy of the Mall collapse. They had actually seen each other from a distance before the collapse, when both their fathers had spoken to each other and stayed on to work.
By rights they would not have run in the same circles ie the engineer’s son, Joo Won, possibly some years older than Gang Doo, with the welder’s son, GD. After the tragedy, the social distance between them increased, since JW became the step-son of the owners of the construction company, while GD dropped out of school, to live rough, to fend for himself and his sister.
And yet, that social distance became as nothing, because essentially they shared a similar tragedy. Both their fathers were scapegoats in the tragedy. JW’s father was, I think made to take responsibility for the collapse. He commits suicide in order to do this, leaving his son and wife at the mercy of the construction company Boss Jung, who’d presumably agreed to take care of them in return.
GD’s father was accused of taking rebars or contributing to the collapse too, and as a result, his family did not get any compensation after his death in the tragedy.
GD and JW were connected by this without knowing it yet. Possibly, it was because of his own suffering, JW was more empathetic and compassionate towards GD and YS. He was willing to allow that there was more to them than met the eye. To him they were persons, not just minions to be used. This was unlike Jung Yoo Taek who did not treat others as persons. I believe it was noted above thread, that even GD challenged YT, that from the height of his office, looking down, he was not able to see anyone as a person.
JW noticed at once that MS had difficulty taking the lift and apologised for not being considerate of this. I like how he took her mind off her fear by chatting about himself. JW also realised that the person who took the trouble (it took great effort) to break the memorial stone must have felt justifiably enraged, and suggested that it was more important to find out why rather than who had done it.
Having figured out that it was GD, JW takes the unprecedented step of giving him a chance to make amends while re-creating a memorial. Unbeknownst to them, this would be one of the first steps in healing the hidden wounds of the tragedy. The best joke, their annoying, petty enemy, Yoo Taek, actually is clevery played by Ma Ri to come on board to pay for the memorial (again) LOL, so GD actually gets money from the guy who refused to compensate him for his father’s death. What delicious poetic justice.
(SPOILER for future episodes but hinted here already … Yoo Taek thinks he’s being smart in saving money but he’s going to end up paying for the land that is needed for the road to the new BioTown, and guess who’s going to get that money? Bwahahahahah!)
@Kate
I recall that previously too, commentors wondered if GD was upset that MS (whom he recognised from very early on actually) had failed to inform the rescuers about him. However we see that he never (none of the victims do) blamed anyone for his misfortunes. So it’s uncertain if he was really accusing MS of thinking only of herself.
We also know that MS may have tried to tell the rescuers about GD, but was unable to be heard. She tried to point back to the site of rescue. Even at the time she was being rescued, her stretcher was dropped because of more falling concrete, and her head may have hit the stones. That, together with the trauma of the event, may have given her the selective amnesia that she still had til the present time. Her mind had had enough and shut down on the worst of the tragedy, so that she did not recall Gang Doo.
I like how this Show gives us many examples of society’s superficial concept of outsiders, losers, broken, unsuccessful-in-corporate-life people and then points out that ‘our’ view of them, if coloured by the general consensus, is skewered and wrong.
In four episodes we get to meet
– illegal immigrants/foreign workers, one of whom will appears now and will pop up again.
– Halmeom (I felt she may have been a loan shark granny) who’s a backstreet, illegal drug-seller/medicine woman, who appears poor.
– Sang Man who is intellectually challenged but full of love.
– Wan Jin who’s in a wheelchair but a successful manwha artist and more.
and of course Gang Doo himself who lives like a loser but has purpose in life.
GD’s relationship with Halmeom is one of the most touching in kdramaland. She’s the woman in his life that he desperately checks on and spends the night with. Aside from his sister, she is his family, and even closer than his sister, she is his trusted friend. The one he calls up just to hang out with on the swings, a smoking buddy who shares the same joint. Aside from her, it’s not clear if anyone knows that he can feel the rain coming in the pain of his leg, or that he constantly takes pain killers in order to be able to function. It is great that despite his cynicism at the great injustices he suffers, GD is able to love and trust, to keep giving of himself and to have true friends.
Welcome to this thread @Kellasandra! We’re always glad to have more fans of this Show join us. 🙂
Hi @Viva!
I was thinking that this sums up the aftermath of the tragedy which is the ongoing tragedy of those who remained after the Mall collapse. This is one of the themes of this Show.
The tragedy didn’t end with the deaths, or the removal of the rubble, the giving of compensation, the platitudes of concern offered and definitely should not be seen as ended by the setting up of a memorial stone and a new mall over the old site.
As we heard the neighbours snipe at MS’s Mum and what Mum says, we get to know that the ones who remained tainted by the tragedy live under stigma. They are criticised whether they laugh or cry, live well or badly. Getting the compensation and opening the public bath was also a cause for being criticised. These people are victims too, but they get no therapy or understanding. They are expected to be grateful that they are alive, received compensation and to endure without complaining. On the outside they are forced to look fine, but we know from the great fallout of their lives, that a lot more was broken and unmended than a building.
I didn’t get around to writing about the sad ripple effect or the fallout, but the ill effects of that tragedy went far beyond in unexpected ways.
One of my thoughts was how strange it was that while one family was broken apart (MS’s parents), there were two unlikely families that were forcibly merged (Joo Won’s and Yoo Taek’s) and in both situations, there was endless unhappiness, perpetuating evils, harm done to self and to others. The unhealthiness of personal, corporate and societal treatment -which in effect was non-treatment – of the aftermath of tragedy is laid bare. Even after 10-12 years, the wounds are not healed.
@Viva
EPISODE 1-4
*SPOILERS*
Yes, the memories and the nightmares remain with MS. She says her nightmares always end the same way, and she’s stuck in the rut too, not able to move on.
Even in her amnesia, at the very hidden recesses of her mind, her memories remain and they trigger her fear of elevators. This is also evident with GD who has claustrophobia. He prefers to sit outdoors or work at an open air site, to drinking in a room.
The Show tells us that one of the effects of the trauma of being ‘buried alive’ is the fear of enclosed spaces, of being somewhere one can’t escape.
But we are slowly starting to see that for GD, there is even more trauma, because not only was he trapped and unable to move, he was also the last to be rescued from the rubble. He had been in isolation for several days, with only the dead around him for company. We find that not only can his memories not disappear, but he gets hallucinations both auditory and visual. Halmeom had asked him if he still saw things, and warned that her drugs would not help with the healing of his mind.
In studies of prisoners in solitary confinement, it was proven that (and I quote) “As a result of the endless monotony and lack of human contact, ‘for some prisoners … solitary confinement precipitates a descent into madness.’ Many inmates experience panic attacks, depression and paranoia, and some suffer hallucinations…” I can’t find the exact reference to this, but we can Google for more studies about it. Anyway, we see that GD manifests these effects after spending 8 days in the rubble, maybe 5 of which, alone.
I do wonder if the survivor’s guilt also triggers his hallucinations. It’s when he’s happy, looking at MS, that he saw the ‘dead boy’ speaking with him. It’s like his psyche says he has no right to be happy, therefore it throws up the hallucination.
The Bus Rides/The Bus Stops
Was it @Kate who mentioned doing an analysis of this? We can discuss this together and add on more takes on this.
Briefly, as @pkml3 has also mentioned separately about train rides, … taking the wrong train, etc… the same idea of the metaphor can be played with. Here’s the link to what @pkml3 wrote : https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2021/02/10/jab-we-met-review-netflix-and-chill/
While the analogy of the train ride may not be entirely suitable, we can think of possible meanings to the bus stop/bus ride metaphor.
– Often waiting at the same bus stop could signify being stuck in the same starting point. Meeting at the same place, could mean that the couple can launch their relationship from a position of equality. We know that GD actually did not need to take the bus from ‘The front of S Mall’. It seems like he walked to work and lived near the construction site. However each time he saw MS there, he approached her at the bus stop. It was their proper starting point for a relationship, aside from the horrors of meeting under the collapsed building, the meet-cute on the stairs, and her saving him, etc, because this time, he intentionally went up to start a conversation with her at the bus stop.
They were strangers then, although GD had tried to strike up a conversation with her to find out if she remembered him. I fancy he already recognised her as the girl who was trapped in the rubble with him, but he wanted to know if she remembered that time, or the time she’d helped him after he was beaten up.
I’d like to think of this as him doing his research. He had been attracted to this girl at age 15, but had been unable to get to know her in the normal way. When ‘fate’ brought her into his life again, when he was beaten up, he tried to find her by asking her father – but no luck. Then he actually gets the chance to meet her again and again at work or near work. It’s like ‘fate’ is continually leading them together. He decides to take control, to ride the bus and see where it takes her and him. Again, as luck would have it, he finds himself outside Seowoon Architects, the very designers of the new BioTown.
It was a bus trip that made MS uneasy, and remember him, when before she’d forgotten him over and over again. Where, as teens, they’d met by chance, under unfortunate circumstances, where he could not move and they kept each other company in the darkness, as adults GD took the bus to make his chance to know MS in broad daylight. So the unnecessary bus ride, was GD making the opportunities for himself ie, this time, he was able to move and he did, and he took control.
– Because she’d met him at the bus stop and he had ‘stalked’ her to the office, she was under the impression that he took the same bus as herself. But it was a false conclusion. Even in life – just because people get on the same bus as us from time to time, does not mean we always go in the same direction or have the same goals.
– Needing to get on the bus for the ride to wherever, could mean the lack of control in one’s life. Bus routes are fixed and choices as to where to stop are limited. We see that MS is also often given a ride in JW’s car. JW considers her his ‘person’. He seems to want to take control of taking care of her. However as I mentioned above, deciding to get on the bus, (the way GD did to follow MS) was also an act of taking control for oneself.
I like the scene where MS gets on the bus after warming up to GD, only to find to her surprise and chagrin, that he was not boarding the bus with her. She’d had the time at the bus stop to speak with him, but she had waited too long and lost her opportunity, thinking that there was more time to chat on the bus.
Instead of accepting the lost opportunity, she too took control. It was her turn to ‘stalk’ GD. She must have told the bus driver to stop and let her off, so that she could limp back towards the place he’d gone, and she actually found him and accomplished what she wanted to do. She didn’t let the bus take her away from her purpose, but like GD, made her own opportunity and took control of her own direction.
It’s nice to see that GD and MS are similar in their overall attitude towards taking control of their own lives, despite their sucky situations.
– By the end of the show we see that just because people don’t get on the same bus at the same time, does not mean they cannot end up together. LOL
– Each bus ride with its many stops can represent different opportunities. Just because one is not the bus driver, does not mean one cannot be empowered to direct one’s own life. One of the warmest healing aspects of this Show is that the broken, still wounded victims of the tragedy, did choose whether they healed or moved on. They could board the bus, stop the bus, follow through to it’s destination or make their own. 🙂
@GB,So beautifully and pointedly said. This drama is very profound. These tragedies don’t go away over time. Memories may become dull but triggers always remain.Anniversaries, birthdays, the start of school, graduations and the death of loved ones all serve to spark the pain.The most mundane events like eating a favorite food or watching a favorite show prompts reaction.And for our survivors the guilt is ever present.our drama hits those themes absolutely viscerally. It is fitting that we have our lead couple, who, without words can truly understand the depth of the pain. Our hearts go out to them but, in no way can we fully understand their grief.This reminds me that platitudes don’t work. A better approach would be to help these victims get what they need,be it an ear to listen, a quiet meal, the removal of any judgment and certainly not the presumption of thanks. I cringe when I watch the charity commercials that trot out the poster children and people to guilt us into giving when there is no thought given to the actual feelings of these people
Then you read the charities’ financial statements to see executive salaries, fund raising costs like parties and junkets and other “expenses” only to find out that a small amount actually goes to the people in need. In this drama there is never enough compensation to pay for the brazen negligence of the companies and government.The drama points out that the current developers are on a collision course to repeat history.our heroes know this. I am hopeful that they will be able to change events.
EPISODE 1-4
*MINOR SPOILERS*
@Viva
In Episode 1, we cut back and forth between Moon Soo and Gang Doo and see that both of them were upset by the memorial stone. They each crushed something in anger, as a manifestation of how inadequate and insincere a sign of homage it was.
In Episode 3 Yoo Jin looks at the broken memorial stone with GD.
GD : “So why would you make this uselessly?”
YJ : “Uselessly? Don’t you know what happened here? It’s not something we could just gloss over as if nothing happened.”
GD :”I guess it must have been uneasy to gloss over as if nothing happened. I know that.”
The stone was to tide over the uneasiness of building over a site of tragedy. Once it was up somewhere, the tragedy could be glossed over and forgotten. The Construction company and all who’d make big bucks from the project would congratulate themselves that they’d done their part in ‘remembering’ the dead and move on.
The memorial stone was an insult to the memory of the deceased, and an insult to the survivors and family members of all who were affected. While the rest of the world could point fingers at them and move on, they were still trapped in the grief and the trauma without recourse to help or understanding.
The stone was an easy way out to assuage the discomfort/guilt over the greed of the corporation. In the end, the stone was meant to be placed out of the way, somewhere in the huge BioTown, practically hidden, but merely in existence to satisfy the demands of ‘propriety’.
It was made as ‘lip-service’, with the intent to not cause the public discomfort in remembering the pain. It was to look as innocuous as possible and be to be forgotten.
Instead of being a means to declare the need for high level safeguards in construction, and of holding the stakeholders to greater responsibility in construction, it was set up to make and ‘end’ of the past tragedy and justify that the corporation could go ahead with their plans. However it was a travesty of compassion, because the tragedy for the survivors and family members had never fully been brought to light.
EPISODES 1-4
*MINOR SPOILERS*
My dear @OAL, I see that you’re happily awake in the wee hours of your morning.
Thanks for your kind words. What you say strikes me too. There’s is so much that cannot be said in words, but our actors amazingly portray so much more than the script itself could have done.
We see the triggers you mention in the ad hoc panic attacks that GD gets. I wondered if the trigger was the sound of the heavy vehicle or the flash of lights in the dark.
There is no escaping even in sleep … we see that both GD and MS have nightmares, often. GD finds that he wakes up and chooses not to go back to sleep.
I do not pretend to ever have suffered the way our protagonists have done, and yet I too feel something of their pain. Viscerally, as you say, as an automatic empathetic response of one human being to another, and yet I am distanced from it, because it’s not my experience. It is unnerving and upsetting and I understand why ‘society’ pushes the survivors aside. They are an uncomfortable reminder of how society has failed them and continues to fail its members.
Helping them by
This is so true. I felt so resentful on behalf of MS’s Mum for the pat judgement that her neighbours make of her behaviour.
While it is true that she was spoiling for a fight, their hurtful words were the most inconsiderate, most calculated to hurt words ever. And the problem is that Mum buys into those words herself. She too felt that she’d sold out her beloved Yun Soo, that she is not entitled to the compensation after selling her child, that she cannot make amends but she can punish herself by letting herself go.
It is so sad that this woman, a hair-dresser, who had cared so much for how she looked, no longer has the will to have a change of clothes or to do her own hair.
More exciting than a blockbuster, thriller adventure, this Show LOL. Yes, what can ‘mere survivors’ do to prevent another disaster. Not doing it alone is an important step that the Show examines.
Kalimera everyone!
@GB Unnie & @OAL thank you for the suggestions.
I went with “Wok Of Love” and it makes me laugh.
Jang Hyun is amazing and I like him. His character brings me so many emotions!
I really like Lee JunHo and I can see that he worked hard to master that Wok so easily! As for Jung Ryeo Won, I like that she is sweet and her smiles are pretty!
I will watch this when I feel like it! Be safe!
EPISODES 1-4
*MINOR SPOILERS*
@OAL
What you say about MS’s position in the family got me thinking. True, Mum was a ‘queen’ and Yun Soo was her princess who’d win her publicity and money and the envy of her neighbours. Dad and MS were only relevant in that they served Mum’s dreams. Dad did not agree to how Mum was promoting Yun Soo: he made himself scarce, so that left MS to deal with Mum. In the short ‘dream sequence’ memory of MS, we get all the information we need about the fraught family relationship.
Their family was not a great, closely knit one to begin with. Dad’s absence made it difficult. In the present, Dad continues his habit of staying away, separating from Mum, letting MS deal with her, even when he knows Mum has a drinking problem. He avoided confrontation from before, possibly running away to work. So Mum finds others to confront and fight with in his stead.
What I was upset with Mum about, was how she vocalised her pain by indirectly blaming MS for surviving. MS was supposed to have been with her sister at all times, therefore if MS survived, YS should have as well. But she does not hear in her cruel words, the reverse,… that if YS died, then MS could have died as well, but since YS was dead, MS might as well be dead. (Dad pointed out accurately, that the person who should have been with YS was Mum.)
MS however heard this loud and clear. She is protected by her amnesia, but the guilt that Mum’s attitude brought to bear has her spending her whole life trying to compensate for being alive. She takes on the role of caregiver, friend, support and daughter towards her self-pitying, blame-throwing mother.
The overriding sense of responsibility and trying to make things right also can be seen in GD who provides for his sister at cost to himself. As I mentioned above, an effect of survivor’s guilt or this kind of trauma, seems to be that the survivors do not feel entitled to good things.
In addition to the guilt of surviving while her sister was killed, MS bears the unacknowledged guilt of knowing that the boy she was supposed to meet died as well. I’m not sure how much she remembers of this at this stage, but it could have added to why her mind shut down the memories. Her innocent foray into dating turned into a nightmare.
She appears to not be in pain at first, because she cannot remember. GD is flabbergasted that he recalls so vividly, the horrors, but MS goes almost blithely by. Only a few times he gets to see that she is affected. He sees her crouching next to the car when she first visited the project site, and he knows that like him, she does not take the elevator.
What a very rich discussion!
@Viva … I think ep 2 is the first episode where the bus shows up and he is observing her from a few seats back… Someone else may remember better. The bus and bus stop are used so well aren’t they? The bus journeys also seem to be markers of who is chasing who at any given time. GD is the master of nonchalant push pull and sometimes MS is simply waiting to see what will happen next. Will he get on the bus with her? Of course she gets to see his giveaway behaviours and see through him more and more as time goes on…
@GB- loved what you said about being stuck at the same starting point ie the Mall bus stop with its empty backdrop. Will they or will they not move on together and travel together in life? Loved the way you filled in the backstory here of GD and MS and what their thoughts may be at this point… One question back for you… does MS remember on that first journey that she has shared the experience of being trapped underground with GD? I thought she just found him rather pushy and wasn’t sure about his interest in her.
@OAL…found what you said about survivor guilt together with its impact on our female lead really insightful + her status in the family… it struck a nerve with me and also explained her ‘interiorising’ of her feelings and experience and the way she lives her life.
@GB – so true re friend-frenemy-ally fluidity! I hadn’t seen that. It is surprising to someone used to UK/US tv where the lines are drawn and rarely shift. Could this be too because k shows tend to be less character driven and more weighted towards plot? Or is it because they are written from a more hopeful standpoint?? Certainly it is refreshing that we get our satisfying moments of resolution and healing and surprising turn-arounds. This is of course much more of a gritty realistic drama but there are still those elements that feel like a Shakespearean stage play… the fated lovers etc
Yes, loving some of the delicious ironies that this plot sets up…
Thank you too for highlighting the horrors that GD went through and the impact it has had on him mentally. I found it hard to watch the recaps and sometimes fast forwarded… I’m sure that is what makes him such a poignant and compelling character – carrying that interior damage so bravely within himself. And again the survivor guilt theme as he encounters MS.
@GB more on buses… I had missed the bus stalker comments you made – made me smile – and both GD and MS taking control of situations when they had missed opportunities to speak to one another by getting on and off the bus respectively to be with one another or observe one another. They recognise the importance of their nascent connection and need to keep grabbing opportunities…even if it requires a bit of stalking and some bold steps. All this felt very natural and organic at the same time.
@GB your reflections on survivor guilt and the way it shows up in MS and GD really well observed and again struck a nerve. And… the double layer of guilt that MS bears because of her date on that fateful day.
Too much richness to comment on here today… I may respond further later to this fabulous discussion.
@Kate
EPISODES 1-4 and SLIGHTLY BEYOND EPISODE 4
*MINOR SPOILER*
You asked
I believe we may already have had a flashback of GD asking Halmeom about people not remembering, and whether they should be told or not. I have to check if it’s Episode 4 or 5. She tells him that it’s better to let them continue in their forgetfulness, therefore he never initiated talk about her personal experience of the building collapse with her.
We will see later, that GD is slightly aggrieved that while he remembers so well, MS seems to have forgotten. On the first bus journey and several meetings after that, MS still did not remember that she was even trapped. She only knew what happened from the time in the hospital onwards. Her discussions with Wan Jin on what/who Bulldog Mansion was reveals this.
In fact, at that first bus trip, she didn’t even seem to remember that he was the same guy she had helped one night in the alley, or that he was the guy who kept her from falling down the stairs! So yes, she found him suspicious and pushy and was uncomfortable, thinking he was following her, which he was. She never did find out that he had followed her though.
EPISODE 3
*MINOR SPOILER*
Hi All, here’s the song by Bulldog Mansion that Gang Doo sang for Moon Soo when they were trapped in the collapsed building, in the total dark. It’s actually a really upbeat song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeAHTQFO-J8
The lyrics are particularly apt, since MS was inching her way to get closer to him in the dark. It’s an indirect prefiguring of how he’d make his way towards her as well to illuminate his love.
Here are the lyrics:
https://www.songlyrics.com/bulldog-mansion/destiny-lyrics/
Very cool
October wind breeze
The road to kiss your mouth to see
That seems far away the sun
Scattered fragments
Us to shine
Closer closer
love me
Come closer to me.
I met you
It’s not an absolute dream
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Closer closer
love me
I’ll show you everything.
Illuminated my love
Forever
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
– Do you
Today I sileopyi 괜히
We got this habit of smiling
Syubap syubirubi baby
Syubap syubirubi baby
Shubie Ruby Ruby Lu
Now came to me.
Festival time
Closer closer
love me
Come closer to me.
I met you
It’s not an absolute dream
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Closer closer
love me
I’ll show you everything.
Illuminated my love
Forever
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
I say feel me feel me
Please pick me
Oh My Lover
Wowoowowoo wowoowo
Closer closer
love me
Come closer to me.
I met you
It’s not an absolute dream
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Closer closer
love me
I’ll show you everything.
Illuminated my love
Forever
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Closer closer
love me
Come closer to me.
I met you
It’s not an absolute dream
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Closer closer
love me
I’ll show you everything.
Illuminated my love
Forever
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Woowoowoo woowoowoo
that’s my feeling
Woowoowoo woowoowoo
Wowoowowoo woeoeo
Woowoowoo woowoowoo
that’s my feeling
Woowoowoo woowoowoo
Fab! Thank you GB.
Enjoying that now.
I enjoyed the sequence in the soju bar but I don’t remember the sequence when our leads were trapped where GD sang that to MS… I need to brave the segments again to see where he sang it,
EPISODE 3
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
@Kate
The song sung by young GD was in Episode 3 roundabout timestamp 1:04:30 when MS was questioning GD about the broken memorial. He’d admitted breaking it but had deliberately not told her the true reason why.
MS : “It doesn’t make sense.”
GD : “There are tons of things in the world that don’t make sense.”
She holds on to his sleeve to keep him from walking off.
MS : “The site manager demolished it when there wasn’t even an order to do it? Because you were mistaken?”
GD : “Yes.”
MS : “You’re lying.”
MS : “You did it on purpose, right?”
GD : “What if I did. What does it matter to you?”
(My interpretation: MS suspects that he feels the same way about the inadequacy and the cop out that the memorial represents. She wants to find out if his circumstances were similar to hers. At this stage, she still does not remember that they had met 12 years prior.)
MS : “Is there a name on the memorial that you recognise? Or were you here?”
GD stares at her, wondering if he should tell her or not.
His silence seems to convince MS,… at least that’s what she seems to want to believe.
MS : “You were here.”
FLASHBACK to 12 years earlier – young MS had called out in the darkness of the collapse “Hello … is anyone here?”
GD had responded. She’d been afraid alone. She managed to find her way in the dark to locate him, by following the sound of his voice. When he ran out of things to say, she asked him to sing a song. Although he didn’t think he could sing well, he started singing a song, ‘Destiny’ by Bulldog Mansion.
She had finally moved close enough to see him in the dark but it was too dangerous for her to get closer.
MS : “That strange song from earlier… who sang that song?”
Cut back to the present…
GD suddenly says as if replying to MS’s question 12 years prior.
GD : “Bulldog Mansion.”
MS : “What?”
GD : “Don’t you know Bulldog Mansion?”
MS : “I don’t know.”
GD gets a bit aggrieved and raises his voice : “You really don’t know?”
She stares at him. He’s shocked that she cannot remember.
@GB.. thank you so much! I will go back and watch this chunk… I find the scenes in darkness where they are trapped scary and difficult to watch … so less of the wimping out and more of the watching!
Just finished Episode 1. I like the tone of the show, it is realistic and melancholy, without being over the top melodramatic. Jun Ho is very convincing as a bad boy with a tragic past. I really like the character of Moon Soo and the actress who plays her. Music is good too.
@Snow Flower… glad you are enjoying it. And it is a grower! Agreed re the music.
Hi @Snow Flower, I’m glad you like Episode 1. It continues it’s melancholy, yet hopeful way onwards with the music that I still find haunting.
I never bothered before, but I will probably look at the lyrics this time around. They are pensive, heart-tugging lyrics, accompanied by lovely, plaintive melodies.
@GB – track 11 is a short instrumental theme – ‘Bus Stop’.
Binged Episodes 2, 3, and 4 today and I am totally invested. I think every character (secondary ones as well) is somehow connected with the mall collapse accident in 2005. On the surface, it appears that MS is coping better. She is in a better physical shape and her job is very meaningful to her. But she has erased all of her painful memories and her connection with GD. GD on the other hand is hyper aware of his physical and mental brokenness, and that awareness has made him sharp and edgy. I like that the secondary characters are interesting and complex as well. My only complaint so far is that Mr. Jung is nothing more than a cartoonish villain, but that issue is pretty minor.
@Kate LOL yes. I just realised it too. I’m listening to it now and it’s a ‘waltz’ or in 3/4 time which is cute. Can you imagine them waltzing in and out of buses and making stops along the way. 🙂
The Title of this Show
This show is known equally as Just Between Lovers or Rain or Shine. It’s fun to look at them to see if more can be garnered from the title(s) about the focus of the Show.
Possible interpretations for the title, JUST BETWEEN LOVERS
Once years ago, in a comment somewhere, it was noted that the word ‘BETWEEN’ in Just Between Lovers held a significance. It denoted a space between persons A and B.
In Episode 3 into 4, MS had gone to the construction site and questioned GD about why he had destroyed the memorial. It had obviously been done in a fit of anger. She too had been angry when she learnt that a new building was going to be erected over the site of S Mall, and had (I think) wanted to know if they had a commonality of feeling.
Among the questions, she asked:
MS : “Is there a name on the memorial that you recognise? Or were you here?”
GD stares at her, wondering if he should tell her or not.
MS interprets his silence : “You were here.”
GD, however, did not want to tell her clearly, since she appeared to not remember the tragedy. He recalled how 12 years previously she’d been scared and he’d sung the song, ‘Destiny’ by Bulldog Mansion, so that she could follow the sound of his voice. She had found him and they had kept each other company in the dark of the collapsed building.
Younger MS had asked : “That strange song from earlier…who sang that song?”
In the present, he suddenly said : “Bulldog Mansion” as if answering the 12-year old question. But it did not ring a bell for MS, and he’d been disappointed and angry. He chided her for her many questions and for insisting on getting a desired answer to her main question.
To apologise to him, that evening she sought him at Ma Ri’s Bar, and GD had taken her out to a pojangmacha.
MS : “Do you live there?”
GD : “No, I don’t.”
MS : “Your address was there. Then where do you live?”
GD : “Here you go with the questions again. If you’re here to drink, just drink.”
She wants to pour him Soju but he declines.
GD : “I don’t drink soju. It’s bitter.”
MS : “I didn’t come to drink either. I came to apologise.”
GD : “Apologise?”
MS : “Making trite of other people’s unhappiness. Thinking that what matters are the things I’m curious about. Everything you said was correct, so I was uneasy all day.”
She takes a sip of her drink and apologises.
Perhaps because of her apology, GD decides to reply to her original question about why he destroyed the memorial : “It was ridiculous.”
MS looks at him questioningly.
GD : “You asked why I destroyed it. Just for carving their names on that stone, …’they croaked here.’. It seemed like they are asking people to remember such things. So I found it ridiculous. That’s why I destroyed it. In a fit of anger.”
MS has finally gotten confirmation that her emotional reaction towards the building over the site of the tragedy was the same as GD’s. There was a greater link BETWEEN them than she had known.
After almost 4 Episodes, in which MS has been asking questions and GD has been evading them, MS has discovered that the space between GD and herself is not filled only with weirdness/differences (she did keep saying to Wan Jin that she found him weird), but with common feeling and greater similarities.
As we go into the future episodes, we get to see what else fills their ‘between’ space and whether these draw them closer or push them apart.
I heard that the word in the Korean title, means ‘relationship’. Several times, throughout the series, the question asking about different individual’s relationships to each other is posed.
On top of being a Show about tragedy, grief, and healing, it’s one that examines the various relationships.
GD and sister Jae Young
GD and Halmeom
GD and Ma Ri
GD and Sang Man
GD and Joo Won
GD and Yoo Jin
MS and with each of her parents
MS and Wan Jin
MS and Joo Won
MS and GD
The list is not exhaustive.
They all began as strangers, from different stations in life, who would not normally have ‘relationship’, but they become drawn together unexpectedly. The space between unlikely people narrowed, and the space between others grew wider.
Possible interpretations for the title, RAIN OR SHINE
On the surface, the title appears to have been taken from the name of the ice-cream parlour, ‘Rainy Shine’. It was the planned meeting spot of MS with her first love, and where GD had entered MS’s awarenessm when the glass between them shattered, and they saw each other.
The Show’s poster has MS carrying a transparent umbrella on a non-rainy day, and looking at GD, while behind them is the expanse of the city that looks sort of faded and undefined. I find that umbrella strange. If it’s a bright day, the umbrella, being transparent, won’t shield MS against the sun. And yet there is no rain, therefore the umbrella is hardly needed.
In kdramas, rain usually stands for dangerous or unfortunate circumstances, and the one who shares his/her umbrella, is the destined person in the OTP, who is the protector and companion in bad times as well as in good. A new bit added by this Show is that GD can sense when rain will come, by the pain in his leg, therefore he is seen to be ready more than once with an umbrella, even when the weather is still dry.
The poster makes it look like GD has been waiting for MS, and that she has come to him, and is peering at him. An interpretation is: come rain or shine, MS is ready to go to GD, umbrella in hand to shield them both. So both parties in this OTP are ready come together, rain or shine.
In the poster, they stand in the foreground with the indifferent city/society behind and below them. It was a society that did not acknowledge the continuing trauma of victims like them, but they are shown to have risen above it all, side-by-side.
@GB…oh my goodness i love these reflections! So enriching… gave me the shivers briefly because of they were so on point!
EPISODES 5 to 8
We have now started a new phase in our recap/ review/ rewatch/ new watch of JBL RrS!
Brief headlines for me from Episode 5 …SPOILER alert …
Episode 5
How GD and Grandma met, was for me one of the most memorable bits of the plot. Loan shark takes pity on GD because she recognizes his character qualities.
‘Look at that punk holding it together and struggling on alone for 10 years, Of course he’s commendable.’ she says of him in looking back at their first meeting.
GD and MS bickering on their car ride is charming and gives you additional compassion for GD and the disabling impact of his his leg injury… Doesn’t stop him being a ‘backseat’ driver though.
Our baddie Director has some great lines. He barks at his sister and the second make lead ’ You are mot doing this for self-actualization’ … haha and I loved his soliloquy about no longer having a conscience and being alone and unsupported… hints of comedy villain and pathods here too…
The cute and uniquely Korean conversation where GD asks Sang Man ‘just be the huyng already’ when SM offers wise words about peoples’ motives in contrast with GD’s cynicism.
We join in this drama in a process of leearning about how to really address a shared grief. We see it in the exploration by GD and MS of new approaches to the memorial to the shopping mall disaster. GD’s innate wisdom shows up here as he takes creative leadership and MS recognises his intelligence. ‘You. You are not one bit of an idiot. What kind of idiot would come up with something like this?’ Who he really is is shining through in this process. Very touching.
EPISODE 6 SPOILERS
Darkness plunges GD into personal darkness as he inspects the building site triggering traumatic memories and acting out in the pedestrian streets afterwards to mask his pain.
Grandma’s trip to hospital with MS leads to Grandma’s expressions of absolute confidence in GD as a ‘guarantor’ for what she feels she owes MS.
We again see the solid and high esteem with which this tough older woman holds GD and also the way the characters’ stories are being drawn together. All revolving around the events at the Shopping Mall as @Snowflower put it. Laughing as we then cut to GD trying to get free drinks out of a drink machine.
Sang Man’s use of the ‘basic footwork of the Kunlun Sword Method’ to keep GD in his place is a nice example of the writer keeping us on our toes with twists and turns in the characterisation of people.
The GD MS wrist grab and the run to the bus! GD puts her on and she walks right to the back of the bus to keep him in eye sight. Lovely intimation of romance. She looks at her hands and remembers his touch as she sits there.
Catching up with backstory of second ML’s dad taking the fall for the company and the role played by second FL, ice maiden, in persuading his dad to apologise publicly.
How has second ML lived with all this and the sense of betrayal by members of his family now by second marriage of his mum to her dad?? I watch expecting a meltdown but he is an unusually cerebral guy who seems to live in his head and rationalise things better than most. It makes him less approachable by the viewer because his thoughts and feelings are given away but we are not allowed into his world as directly as we are with MS and GD. Then we discover sadly the role played by MS’s dad in provoking the suicide of our second ML’s dad. ML’s parents are weak characters and she has ended up carrying the world on her shoulders.
MS and GD take a cute trip – instigated by GD to cheer up MS after her mum’s outburst and tears about MS wearing make-up – to the fun fair. I loved their mutual choice of a staid merry-go-round.
‘Your lips are like sausages.’ Haha… Love this whole sequence and that first peck on the lips as they sit outside in the cool night air looking out at the harbour and the night sky. Engrossing and feels very real. That morning GD looks at MS gently ‘let’s go’ and holds out his hand…
ps… addendum to my comments re self-controlled second ML…pf course we do see gradually the way he is not handling life…despite his ‘put together’ appearance and calm exterior.
Wow@(GB), you’ve added so much to think about. I think our English translations are probably a bit misleading. You have shown here that we need to go further when looking at the two sets of show titles. Netflix uses Rain or Shine but Viki uses Just Between Lovers as the show title. Am trying to think about whether there is any significance to this.
As to the monument, I think it was dinky. It looked like a tombstone but didn’t address the magnitude of the loss. There are many monuments to the World Trade Center in the tri-state area, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and these run from the beaut I ful, meaningful memorial at the site to remnants of the building found and repurposed. I’ve seen many and all of them are emotionally moving. Other memorials to tragedies cN be small, like a plaque on cwall of a building, but commemoration of the event serve c to keep these memories alive. A building at the NYU campus in New Y I rk was the site if the horrendous Triangle Shirtwaist Fire that ushered in union reforms. Every year there is a huge commemorative event over a century after the fire. Both examples show how seriously these events are taken. Our show tells v us how not to do a memorial and how it was an example of doing something fast and dirty. The builders seemed to think the incident would be forgotten. That is why we can feel our hero’s anger. Of course, the developers were only concerned with the money the damage cost. That’s why this drama hits the viewer in the gut. It doesn’t sugar coat. Bravo 5o the creators here.
Am waiting to see what happens when MS regains her memory. I think it will be time for an ugly cry.
@Kate, the old adage rings true about GD, “you can’t judge w book by its cover”. In K Dramas there is the trope of reaction to the character based on perceived wealth as demonstrated by haircuts, clothing, jewelry/watches. It’s easy to see that GD would be judged poorly based on the trope.
@OAL – ah…another trope! that makes sense of the way the plot draws our attention repeatedly to GD being very obviously and verbally looked down upon and put down by those who are unenlightened about this diamond in the rough! It felt a bit overdone to me at times… but your comment makes sense of this.
On Episode 6 now, watching during breaks at work. So rich and absorbing. Every scene is meaningful. Glad to have started the drama. Thank you everyone for your insights.
Hey everyone, I am back to work so I am a little slower than schedule. Hope you don’t mind. 🙂
Episode 3
My notes:
At the construction site:
After GD rescued MS, they both were limping pain in the rain. I thought that picture shows who they are – carrying on walking with their pains despite crying?
YJ noticed GD the first time in the construction site. YJ had a good impression of him when he looked after MS by getting them to bring back the equipment. That marks the start of their friendship, two who have almost the opposite background. She has almost everything and he has nothing. May be that’s when she knows GD likes MS.
@GB @Kate continuing our tracking of their bus trips 🙂
Bus conversation #2
GD: Which bus are you taking? Do you live far?
MS: A bit. I live in Seohyeon dong. Do you know where it is?
GD: I’ve heard of it.
MS: We run a bathhouse.
GD: It must be nice.
MS: It’s called Carol bath.
GD Why? You want me to go there to be scrubbed?
MS: No we don’t have a bath for men. It’s woman only bathhouse
GD: That’s even better
A bus arrived. MS got in but GD just walked off to MS surprise. She tried to keep pace with GD inside the bus.
MS: Aren’t you getting in?
GD: I’m heading home
MS: you live around here? (GD nodded) Last time… oh !
They are still not companion on the same bus yet. Like everything @GB already said MS is warming up to GD. She has moved from the first conversation that GD did all the talking, to letting GD to know her. She also realised her false conclusion that GD takes her usual bus route. She ran back to talk to GD.
She accepted his donut despite not liking to eat sweet stuff. She thanked him and GD was touched. Is this the first time GD smiles? He is starting to like MS. MS is also thinking about GD.
At the company dinner – A mirror eavesdropping sessions. MS was eavesdropping GD and JW conversation over the memorial. Then later GD is eavesdropping MS and JW conversation. Seeing JW showering MS with care, GD knows his “place” and quietly walked away and didn’t give her the burn medicine. (How sad!) Despite JW’s warmth, MS focus is the leaving GD. It’s quite clear who is on her mind. She reluctantly accepted JW’s ride.
GD’s character is about action, not just words. He helps where it is truly needed. He reduced MS’s burden by getting rid of the load she needs to carry. He bought burn medicine when no one else thought of that. It’s different from JW. Although JW shows he cares, he is doing what he thought nice for MS, but not necessarily what MS wants or needs.
EPISODES 1-4, 5-8
*SPOILERS*
@Kate
You wrote
About ‘traumatic memories’: someone who knew about the effects of being alone, trapped, unable to carry out any ‘normal’ activities enlightened me about what GD was suffering. It was similar to how prisoners in solitary confinement end up becoming mentally incapacitated. In one of my attempts to locate this debilitating state I came across this:
“As a result of the endless monotony and lack of human contact, “for some prisoners … solitary confinement precipitates a descent into madness.” Many inmates experience panic attacks, depression and paranoia, and some suffer hallucinations…”
In Episode 2, Halmeom knows that GD’s ills are not just physical.
GD : “How can I live without going crazy? In this crazy world?”
Halmeom : “Do you still see things? (He does not reply) Hang onto your mind tightly. If your body hurts, you can take medicine. For that, medicine doesn’t work.”
He suffers from auditory and visual hallucinations at odd times. It could have been triggered by anything even by positive thoughts that brought on the guilt (as if he had no right to be happy), for eg. when he looked at Moon Soo (he had an attack in the maintenance office).
In Episode 4, GD looks out the office window at MS and suddenly he gets a hallucination of a young man covered in dust in the rubble who says : “You must feel good about life.” GD recoils and looks around but his foreman heard nothing. It was a hallucination.
As GD looks again at MS the voice of the hallucination continues “Why? You’re going to date her or something?” He tells it to shut up and his foreman wonders what he’s doing.
GD was trapped altogether for around 8 days in endless monotony. He may have had a bit of company, with a living person now and then for up to 3 days maybe. Moon Soo was found and rescued at around the 3rd day of the collapse, at a guess, but by then (the debris was still shifting around them), she was no longer near enough to GD so he was not found together with her. That means he spent around 5 days totally alone, devoid of human contact, in the dark, with only the dead around him. It would not be surprising if he ‘spoke to the dead’ for company. We see that he did speak to the boy who would die… the boy who was MS’s first love.
Other triggers for his hallucinations might be darkness (as happened when he was on site alone one night and the lights went off), and it could even have been a memory (as at the barbeque on the rooftop when MS spoke of the football match that GD had told her about 12 years previously).
His most scary hallucination was that of the boy, because the boy had first asked for help, to check why he could not move his legs, but GD found that the boy’s legs had been amputated in the collapse. In one of his memories, the boy had held on to GD’s foot. GD’s survivor’s guilt therefore included his shame at having kicked the boy away, at being repulsed by the horror of being held fast by someone who had no legs and didn’t know it. Or worse … and I believe this is more likely … the boy may have died while still gripping GD’s foot. GD might have had to prise his dead fingers off. So GD also faced the horrors of being trapped by a corpse with no legs. No wonder the sight of the shoe drove him to dig out the wall.
It is not certain if he ever really had conversations with the boy, but GD’s guilt put spiteful words in the hallucination’s mouth. When GD considered that he might be happy with MS, the hallucination of her first love (his rival, had he know it) derided him. Poor GD.
Hi @Viva,
Not to worry, there’s no such thing as being slow on our threads. We can come on at any time and a BOD ‘ghost’ like myself who haunts this thread will read you LOL.
I like your point about both of them limping in the rain and carrying on. I felt that despite wincing at the pain, they did not complain or actually cry. Yes, it show their mettle and it also showed how alike these two are. Even if they had to limp, they’d be willing to walk life’s journey together.
GD could not give MS a car ride, but he gave her his jacket and helmet against the rain (he didn’t have his umbrella LOL), he helped carry one of her things and scolded So Mi for negligence. Although he didn’t need to, he waited at the bus stop with her to ensure she got on the bus. I felt that he showed far more consideration and care than even Joo Won. Actually, I felt that he already liked her at this stage. He showed his interest by striking up a conversation with her in the first bus-stop meeting, when he ‘stalked’ her.
He originally wanted to find her to thank her, but her father refused to tell him anything. However he noticed her again and again. He did not say thank you yet until the scene you described, because he found that she did not recognise him still!!!
Only when he gave her the helmet, and said that he no longer owed her for helping him in the alley, after he got beaten up, did she realise that he had recognised her. She had only recognised him a bit earlier at the almost motorbike accident.
So she seems to need to go backwards in memory slowly. Much later she does finally ask him if he’s also the one she met on the stairs. And much later after that, then only will she remember the earlier time.
I like your mention of the mirror eavesdropping. Yes, that’s true. MS eavesdropped and heard that GD was the destroyer of the memorial. She eavesdropped instead of walking past them, because she was interested in GD. GD eavesdropped and finds that he may have a rival in the CEO. What you say about MS’s focus, ie she watched GD walking away – reminds me of what was said in ‘Our Beloved Summer’ – the Writer said follow the gaze to catch the emotional moments and to make an interesting story. So true. By the time of this dinner, both GD and MS were already focused on each other.
Yes, it’s true that JW keeps offering MS what she does not want. She also does not really need rides from him. That’s why the attention he pays her is rather annoying. He does what he wants, without considering if she really likes it or not. Still, as everyone admits, he’s a good person, so at least it’s good he’s on her side.
Although in Episode 3, they are still not quite in sync yet, (they have yet to decide to ride the same bus to the same destination), they have already established interest in each other.
@Viva, I enjoyed your Episode 3 recap and reflect – especially enjoyed the cheeky GD-MS dialogue about the sauna and your account of the bus journey!
Re eavesdropping – so interesting the amount of mirroring between our two leads.
I enjoy the multi-layered nature of this discussion and going back is just as interesting as going forward!
@GB … I liked the way you drew attention to GD’s practical care of MS versus JW trying to insert himself into her life… although there is nothing wrong with that – he’s pursuing her …it’s just that he doesn’t see her the way GD does.
SPOILER ALERT to later in the series
SPOILER ALERT
Later GD reveals the extent his interest in MS is a given. ‘just because’ and something that causes him to care about her, think about her etc etc … whereas JW is drawn to the things he and MS have in common – more of a ‘heady’ response to her rather than ‘whole person’ response.
@GB just read your account of the nature of the trauma GD suffers now and what he went through. I had wondered how the hallucinations were triggered and at also whether they were simply a dramatic device at points in the plot.
Clearly they are far more than a simple dramatic narrative device.
It really brought home to me what he is living with now and the multiple challenges he faces.
Thank you for such a thorough account.
@Kate, I have had the great privilege of once reading the comments of someone in Dramabeans with the ‘name’ @Tom. He had a very rounded handle on grief/trauma, on how it was portrayed, and he was knowledgeable on camera work too, etc. I am pleased to say that I’ve found some of his posts. Here’s something that should be posted again later for the episodes after Ep 8. I’ll do that later maybe, because it was in connection to another scene that we’ll come to.
This comment shows a fantastic analysis of what is going on with this Show. Quoting @Tom
We do not realise that we are observing long-term grief because it does not look the way we expect. Therefore we do nothing to aid the grieving. We dismiss what we see by other names, ‘being weird, attention-seeking, weak,’ etc but do not go to the root of the issue. Even lovers who are so close, may not be able to recognise the trauma, although each suffers their own trauma as well. This is a healing drama because unlike MS’s parents, one party was not blinded by his/her own grief/trauma. MS’s and GD’s vision/memory of the true pain in each other became clearer over time, and was accepted by both.
We have the juxtaposition of how MS’s parents, and how Seo Joon and Yoo Jin, (both ‘couples’) dealt with the tragedy, and it’s fallout. And now we look at GD and MS.
@GB – this is profound – thank you so much for sharing and your own further reflections.
It speaks to the value of this drama and the journey we go on with our characters and is a lesson for us in our own lives.
Reading what I wrote to @Kate above, it occurred to me, that we might be interpreting too narrowly also, the term ‘lovers’. We might consider as well the gap/space BETWEEN Moon Soo and her mum, MS and her dad, Joo Won and his mum, Gang Doo and his sister. The ‘normal’ love relationships between family members were profoundly affected.
I did wonder from when I first watched this Show in 2017, why it was that the tragedy with the grief that should have been a shared grief, did not pull the families together, but instead broke them apart or stressed them. Why even after 10 years, the mourning continued unabated.
A possible answer to at least 1 set of relationships, is again insight from @Tom.
It’s not that MS’s mum was bad, but she probably did blame herself the most, and could not face this, or was in denial about it. She sought to pass the blame to MS for not being with her sister, to her husband who was not often with them, etc. But her greatest pain was her conviction that she was the one at fault. Her brightest jewel, YS, was lost, because of her greed.
Later we will keep seeing how she continues to blame herself. Even 10 years after the event, the family had not been able to grieve properly together. For MS, added to this was her memory loss. She must have wondered to what extent she might also have been to blame, but could not recall. She may have asked the ‘What if’ questions too that GD deplored. ‘What if YS had been with her instead of 2 floors down.
However we will see later that MS has a pretty good idea how her family could have dealt with the loss. Coming to understand the true purpose of the memorial, aids in her healing.
@GB — again this is so helpful and enriching of my appreciation of the show.
So agree re your analysis of self-indulgent blame re-assigning wailing motherhood. MS’s mother is sadly, for me at least, for all the reasons you articulate, a dislikeable, self-centred woman. But the story telling is more compassionate than my harsh assessment. I must remind myself of what she is dealing with.
There was a point in one episode when the ‘auntie’ told MS’s mother just what a loving and supportive daughter she had in MS and the response angered me and, no doubt, others. I can’t remember the precise words.
I was angered too with her behaviour re MS wearing lipstick. Inexcusable.
I also want to look at the role played by MS’s ineffectual father. Did his wife feel neglected and end up acting out her hurt towards him in all her behaviours…including empire building via her youngest daughter? Or did he distance himself into the world of work because of his childish wife (she reminds me of a South Korean version of Mrs Bennett!).
I feel fortunate that I’m in an armchair (figuratively) analysing mostly objectively the emotions and behaviour of the characters. It is hard to know, however, when faced with circumstances as difficult as those faced by MS and her family, whether I might acquit myself any better than any of them.
While many mistakes were made and compounded, I do believe that human weakness was most at fault, in denying that family the right support for each other, in a time of grief. If there was self indulgence, hurtful blame throwing, neglect out of ignorance or inability, it was not intentional.
In spite of the mistakes, there was also love by imperfect human beings, and we are offered hope in the way MS turned out. She is a generous soul, far from bitter, moving forward to make her own happiness.
With regards to MS’s mum’s trauma, it is shown where she has made a 180 degree shift from caring about appearances. She associates applying make-up with tremendous loss. Her own appearance is almost unkempt compared to how she was in the past. She is unable to even buy a new dress, because perhaps, she feels she does not deserve it.
Still, at least, we do see in one of the episodes, that she does bother about MS’s hair and she does mother her from time to time.
EPISODES 1-8
*SPOILERS*
The Staircase Meetings
Episode 1 The First Staircase Meeting
GD walked down as MS climbed up. He inadvertently blocked her way, giving her a shock so that she almost fell backwards. He caught her and held her against his body to steady her, while she held on to him for dear life.
It was just after he told Joo Won not to touch a stranger, but here he finds that he has to catch and embrace a falling stranger. LOL.
GD has one arm holding on to her back and says : “Look in front of you when you walk.” Since she took a long time to disengage herself, he asked ” … Are you going to stay like this?”
She lets go but does not look up to see his face, however he had seen hers and it seemed like he already recognised her. She sees his face partially from above.
They remained strangers, going their separate ways and she did not even have the presence of mind to apologise for blocking him or to thank him. But for a moment the physical space between them had been nil.
Episode 4 The Second Staircase Meeting
MS leaves the meeting with Yoo Taek, JW and YJ, feeling dejected. She walks down the stairs and sits in the stairwell. GD meets her while climbing down.
GD : “What are you doing, blocking my way?” (He could have added ‘again’.)
MS : “Geunyang/Just because, I going to rest a bit before going. Go first.”
GD : “You’re down just because you were scolded.”
MS : “You saw?”
He sits beside MS. (Where before they had been strangers who bumped into each other, they were now acquaintances who could share a moment.)
MS : “So you saw.” She puts her head on her knees : “I keep on showing you a terrible side of me.”
GD : “Seeing you act like your life is over because of that type of thing looks even worse. Like a fool.”
MS : “It’s not that I look like a fool, I am a fool. And everyone else is better than me.”
GD : “It does seem like everyone lives well except for you, but if you go ahead, it’s all the same.” (This is GD’s philosopy of life, and the reason why he is able to take on CEOs as well as the man-on-the-street.) “Even the guys who seem to do well are stressed out behind the scenes.”
MS : “Are you comforting me right now?”
GD : “What? Are you going to feel touched by these ridiculous words? Don’t do that. It’s every man for himself in life. Stay alert.”
She continues to look at him as he goes on down. Seeing him from above MS finally realises where she’d first seen GD.
MS : “We saw each other here before, right?”
GD : “I don’t know.”
MS : “Why aren’t you riding the elevator?”
GD : “That’s nothing for you to know.”
MS : “Oh right. But why did you come here?”
GD : “Why are there so many things you’re curious about? Do you really like me?”
She runs down to catch up with him. He walks home and she follows him.
Seeing him about to enter the Motel she asks : “You live here?”
GD : “Isn’t your expression being too obvious coming to someone else’s house?”
MS : “I asked you to grab a drink and you said let’s drink at home. Then you bring me to a motel. Of course, it’s weird.”
GD : “Oh my goodness…What did you expect? You’re even weirder. Let’s set things straight. I didn’t bring you here. You followed me.”
MS : “Since we met each other coincidentally, while we’re at it. And my friend said we should try to get close to each other.”
GD snorts and gives this look like she’s crazy. She follows him up to the roof and her apprehensions disappear.
They have a great time with a non-cool drink, reading comics.
MS : “Don’t they all say the same thing?”
GD : “That’s why it’s fun. Even if you get betrayed, there’s one friend who trusts you. Everything your teacher or mentor says is right so you only have to follow what he says. If you work hard, results will follow. The bad guys will get punished. That’s nice.”
(It sounds like GD wants a simple life where everything works out according to a fixed checklist, and we know why.)
MS : “That’s too obvious though.”
GD : “That’s what’s good. The world sucks because it can’t do what is obvious and simple.” (This is an interesting, simple piece of philosophy. We complicate our lives so much.)
GD watches MS with a smile, while she reads.
They have moved from being acquaintances to companions. They both went in the same direction down the stairs away from the stifling, calculating, corporate life of Yoo Taek, and chose to climb up together to a simple rooftop where there was air, freedom and relaxation. They took the obvious and simple route together, and still overlooked the rooftops. Whereas Yoo Taek looked down and did not see persons, they could look down and recognise people along the way. It is a nice metaphor for how they would choose to be together, where the emotional space between them was narrowed tremendously.
Episode 7 The Third Staircase Meeting
(BTW, look out for the shaky camera. It indicates that all’s not well in someone’s state of mind.)
Wan Jin has wrangled a barbeque party out of GD and the bunch of young people are on the motel rooftop with GD.
The conversation about the soccer game that GD himself had told MS about, triggers an episode of auditory hallucinations in GD. We see the shaky camera trained on GD. He runs off.
Moon Soo finds him in the stairwell, trembling, covering his ears, and speaking to the hallucination : “What did I do so wrong? Be quiet. I can’t hear you. Shut up. Please get lost.”
MS comes to ask if he is ok.
GD is concerned if MS suffers the way he does : “How about you?” (The camera shakes when trained on GD but not on MS)
MS : “Me? What are you talking about? I’m asking if you’re okay. You disappeared all of a sudden. What are you doing here?”
GD asks again : “You… are you okay?” (He wants confirmation that she mind is healthy, unlike his.)
MS : “I’m fine.”
GD : “Why? How? How are you okay?” (He’s puzzled that they went through the same tragedy, but he turn out a wreck, while she seemed fine.)
GD : “You’re really…okay?” When she is silent, he holds on to her waist, like a drowning person with his saviour, and rests his head on her heart, much to her surprise. It was as if he wanted to anchor himself with MS, against the shakiness of his mind.
As GD leans his head against MS’s chest : “That’s a relief, that at least you’re okay. It’s a big relief.”
The OST lyrics appropriately say:
‘Life around your heart
Hear your voices
Lies resound your heart
See your faces
Letting you go
Seeing your life
Living my life away from you (Wan Jin cries out so MS who was about to stroke GD’s head runs up instead. Poor GD looks bereft.)
In your eyes
Far from you’
This happens at the end of the day after GD had gotten hurt saving CEO Seo. It was a long day for poor GD. This time it’s GD who is needy and MS comes to him out of concern. She’s coming to know that more is not right with GD than he lets on. Sang Man also gives her a hint when he asked if she saw GD ie saw him battling his mental demons. They’ve taken turns to show each other their vulnerable sides and to help each other.
It was the first time GD had embraced MS intentionally. After this, their slipping into dating with hand holding was totally natural, and the space, both physical and emotional, between them began to disappear.
@Kate and @(GB), The whole subject of S. Korean parenting in these dramas can run the gamut from the extremely cold, severe and bullying to the super warm idealized version of especially mother’s. I guess we have to look at Confucianism to gain clues about fillial piety because I think it plays a big part of all of this too. The expectation seems to be that children have responsibility for the parent while parental opinion is expected to greatly influence children’s behavior well into adulthood. Permission to marry is a big example.
MS has a mother who showed great favor to her younger daughter, who I suspect was fulfilling Mom’s own wishes and dreams. Mom lived vicariously through that daughter, making the mother a stage mother. I suspect the younger daughter also added to the family wealth. MS had no chance in the family but to serve her younger sister and her mom’s wishes. MS’s ambivalence towardher sister makes a lot of sense. And MS is quite aware of her dilemma thus adding to her emotional distress. The father absented himself butis not without feelings. In that family dynamic, he too was expected to serve the younger daughter but in reality I try was to serve mom. And pre collapse mom certainly was vain. My hope for MS is that mom comes to her senses and sees just how remarkable and wonderful MS is. Of course we see how family dysfunction serves to also explain the way MS copes. Unfortunately this type of coping mechanism eventually fails. This drama, I hope, will show how our characters who all are flawed, get to more healthy ways of living.
Good discussion both -@GB and @OAL!
I have to divide my reactions between those of a viewer feeling frustration with characters and the more analytical approach to this show. Sometimes as a viewer I am going to experience the plot as triggering and cathartic and that is part of the point of drama too.
None of us know how we would handle things in this situation.
True too that the Mum was on a path of ‘fulfilling her dreams’ through her younger daughter as @OAL put it… before the mall crushed people and hopes.
I find it helpful to see her as a ‘type’ of Korean parent, @OAL, that gives me useful distance from her as a person.
@GB, I hadn’t noticed her self-neglect as a sign of guilt – together with the other factors you mentioned. Very helpful as usual.
…self-neglect *relating to new clothes and self-adornment etc*
Hi all,
Just through an overwhelming and stressful three days with long-distance problems with two, separate elderly parents and their care when everything is being affected by the latest wave… will go back and read in detail your last few comments and refresh on JBL … things were too stressful to watch the show!
I will be catching up over the weekend.
@Kate, Please don’t stress over JBL. Our discussion does not meet the importance of family and the resolution of the issues exacerbated by these weird times. Sending hope that you get the resolution you need. And when you’re ready you can pick up doing what you enjoy. In the meantime sending you healing and calming vibes…
Hi @Kate, I second @OAL in what she says. Being on BOD is a fun thing that we do to relax, when we can. It should not cause you stress!
We’ll be happy to chat with you and everyone who comes by whenever, so take your time. There’s no time limit, and people like me haunt the threads, 😂 so I can read you later.
Sending you a prayer that all turns out well. Remember to take care of yourself too!
@OAL and @GB – thank you both for kind and thoughtful words.
This morning we had a wonderful – answer to prayer style – breakthrough with arranging care for a parent… Last night I resorted to some lightweight watching just to switch off.
I’ll be back in touch.
Episode 5 Thoughts
I’m jumping back to Episode 5 because I didn’t transcribe it earlier. When I bother to slow everything down to transcribe, new things strike me.
MS and GD have gone around to look at materials for a memorial. They find everything is the same old stuff and uninspiring. JW suggests that they don’t try to make it different. He said that the memorial was to be : “At a place that won’t stand out, classy enough to not draw criticism. That was my intention in the beginning. It’s actually better that we get to remake it. You two will be different from me.” So his intention, too, was to just give the memorial ‘lip service’. It was meant to be placed somewhere unobtrusive, to merely exist so that the company would not be criticised for forgetting the victims.
MS tells JW : “We’ll be different. Thank you for believing in us.”
MS and GD next go in search of examples of memorials. The first one had too many words engraved on it that GD could not even read. He says that their memorial should be easily understood by anyone. The second one they looked at was well hidden, up a forest trail, and over grown by creepers.
MS : “It looks like no one comes to visit. It must have been lonely. This isn’t how it should be either. Right?”
GD agrees.
At the end of the excursion, GD and MS know what they don’t want in a memorial, but not what their memorial should be.
However Sang Man gives GD the right idea. While watching cats being rescued on TV, GD scoffs at the rescuers : “They aren’t even going to take care of them till the end. In the end, they are just doing that to put on a show.”
(This is a comment on how those rescued are then abandoned to rally or not on their own.)
SM disagrees. He believes that the rescue is done because they are human and humane and are not doing it only for show.
SM : “People need to be like that (humane). Hyung, you don’t even know that?”
GD is struck by this and looks at SM for a while : “Sang Man-ah. Just be the hyung already.” (GD is suggesting that Sang Man should take his place as the big brother, since what he said was wiser than he knew and it applied well to the memorial. The irony is that SM really was the older of the 2.)
GD comes to MS’s office (while she’s drawing a church like structure for a memorial) and pitches the idea inspired by SM to her. GD names the victims of the S Mall collapse.
GD : “What kind of people were they? Where did they live and what did they do? How old were they? Were they parents? Were they children? I think we’re going about this memorial in the wrong way. Who these people were. That’s what comes first.”
They had been too intent on looking for a stone, or for a design for the memorial, they had forgotten the people it was meant to memorialise. It was the same with the construction. YT was too focused on materials, on permits, on cost, but the safety of the people who would spend days working, shopping, living in the building let alone those who would build it, should come first.
Even MS and GD who were survivors of the collapse, had started by going about the memorial the wrong way, thinking only of how it would look, and even YT, JW and YJ who’d experienced the losses of the collapse before were still able to making the same mistakes that could lead to another collapse.
The building of the memorial is an analogy for the way all projects should prioritise their activities. The people should come first. What Sang Man pointed out was that good work should not be just for show. We should be doing it because we are human and we want to do the right thing.
GD looks MS in the eyes : “Let’s not make something just to show to others, let’s do what we’re really supposed to be doing.”
MS : “It’s not going to be easy though.”
GD : “If something like this was easy, wouldn’t that be even more strange?” (In the past the easiest way to make a memorial, had been to ignore the survivors, and to just name the dead. The way GD was proposing required information from and the cooperation of survivors.)
MS stares at GD with appreciation and acknowledges : “You. You are not one bit an idiot. What kind of idiot would be able to come up with something like this?”
MS thinks as she looks at GD ‘What we are really supposed to be doing: remembering.’
After the tragedy, society, the bereaved, the survivors were all supposed to forget and to move on. A simple memorial was supposed to be adequate to assuage the guilt or sorrow. Everything was to be forgotten and life on the surface was to go on smoothly.
A scapegoat in JW’s father had to be found quickly so that the others involved could put on a show of having dealt with the issue. They could then smooth everything over on the surface and move on without further loss.
But underneath the surface there was much wounded-ness that festered and that continued to harm individuals, in the long-term. The true and real analogy for this was how the remains of the dead had been buried in the site of the collapse and left to rot.
This Show has dared to dig deep and to uncover literally and figuratively one of the main issues in how society deals with death, humiliation, mistakes and human weakness. Much is often buried and forgotten when it was proper treatment and healing that was required.
GD adds on another proviso to the memorial : “The victim who died in the accident isn’t the only victim.” He refers to the mother who’d forgotten that her son had died, and who had died while waiting for him to come home.
GD : “Not knowing her son had died, the name of the person who waited for him for over 10 years, alone …is it okay to forget her name? The people who survived it, yet who were miserable…how will they be compensated?” The least that could be done, was for her name to be added to the memorial too.
Forgetting or Remembering
MS awakens that night from the recurring dream she gets, of the collapse. She is in tears because she can only see her sister in her dreams. She remembers little else of the collapse.
GD at the project site, checks the damaged wall that has been shored up. The lights go out and this triggers the scary memory of the boy, Sung Jae, desperately holding on to his leg in the collapse.
The hallucination of Sung Jae appears walking out of the wall saying : ‘Can’t you see me? You still can’t see me?’ His tone is accusatory. GD is terrified and wants to flee but finds himself rooted to the spot, his legs not obeying him. GD wants to forget. He wants to stop having the hallucinations, the guilt, and the pain, but he cannot. He prefers to get beaten up by real people to ignore his inner demons.
Ironically, at the same time Moon Soo thinks : ‘What we’re really supposed to be doing is remembering. She remembers the same boy who is now the subject of GD’s hallucination: ‘Name Choi Sung Jae, 17 years old. If it weren’t for me, …he would have grown up to be an awesome adult. My first love.’
We get a brief flashback of Sung Jae waiting for her and of 15-year old MS applying lip colour in anticipation of her date. We see this from the perspective of GD, who looks at her with interest. It is appropriate that we get GD’s point of view, because he seems to be the main corner of the triangle.
What an interesting triangle Show draws, when the 3 protagonists are not even aware they form a triangle. Sung Jae who was meant to meet MS, ends up ‘haunting’ GD instead in death and in the present. MS who wanted to date Sung Jae, is wracked by guilt over his death and ends up with GD instead both 12 years earlier and in the present time. GD who didn’t know either of them before the collapse, was the one who communicated with both, who tried to help both, and who ended up shunning Sung Jae who died, to being left behind by MS who was rescued.
What a delightfully well-made Show.
@(GB) your post is so good. It brings out so much that makes this drama so profound. I am especially taken with your comments on memorials and remembrance. It seems that in so many of our traditions there is a time of year to remember our loved ones. In my Jewish tradition they are the anniversary of the person’s death and during several holy days when memorial services are held. It is also customary to light candles of remembrance and to visit the graves of one’s loved ones at those times. There are distinct prayers for these occasions a no d when recited, the mourner is joined by the congregation in support. For me these traditions are powerful because they give me an opportunity to set aside time to solely(souly) remember the people I still love and tonot forget them. It ties me to past generations and continues the thread. This drama also viscerally tells of the various reactions to sudden death. While people are never prepared for death, sudden and unexpected death hits hardest
The idea of never seeing or speaking to be one’s loved one is unimaginable. There is much cognitive dissonance and in the empty feeling of not being able to say a proper farewell. In my tradition there is a finite timetable for mourning- The funeral, the simple funeral meal and the first seven days (where you tear your clothes, cover mirrors, sit on low benches,do not bathe, do not go outside and also see people who come to your house to commiserate). At the end of the week you go outdoors and circle your neighborhood.Then there is the immediate 30 days where you return to work or school but refrain from doing things like going to the movies, watching TV, cutting your hair it doing anything frivolous. After, there is the remainder of the year where you say the memorial prayer, Kaddish,and plan for the erection of the gravestone that is formally unveiled towards year end. At the end of the year your formal mourning ends. But as in this drama, for many it doesn’t end and the trauma continues. And as with our characters there can be nightmares, selective amnesia and behaviors in that are uncharacteristic. The survivors and the bereaved don’t seem to catch a break.
As you said in this post and to say it differently, this well written drama is not fancy, but a brutally realistic depiction of the aftermath of sudden death in so many of it’s manifestations
I find it hard to look away, even though it brings to mind some of my own experiences. It’s a gut punch. But my prayer is that our characters find ways to realistically heal.
Thank you @OAL. Thank you for sharing your amazing Jewish customs with regards to official mourning. Those are so profound, so meaningful. I feel that I’m missing out on something in the simple, quick way we go about our wakes and funerals. Our remembrance may be constant but unofficial, and although we visit graves at any time, there is only one official specified time a year for prayer and visits. However throughout the year and at any time we can offer prayers, and we know we are still connected with our loved ones in that their spirits join ours as one Church, in praying for each other, at every Holy Mass.
I like how you summarise it: this drama is “a brutally realistic depiction of the aftermath of sudden death in so many of it’s manifestations”. Later we will find that grieving even a death that is not exactly sudden, will be explored as well.
Yes, we need desperately to know that healing is possible. We want to see our protagonists rise above. 🙂
STAIRCASE SCENE EPISODE 7
*SPOILERS*
@Viva
I went back and read what you hinted about the stairs.
Thanks for highlighting this. If you have time, we’d love to read what you understand by this scene. Yes this looks like a simple trope, doesn’t it? As if it’s just to tell viewers… OK here’s the OTP, and the boy saves the girl again. However it’s more than that.
I’m guessing what you thought about is to do with the fact at in the third Staircase Meeting in Episode 7, (my comment above mentions it) the roles of GD and MS are reversed? He’s not really the tougher or stronger one in the relationship. That trope is totally turned on its head when we find him cowering like a child, and MS is like the ‘mum’ or the stronger figure who’s there showing concern. His desperate, childlike grab and hug of MS was so touching. MS is now the pillar he clings to, the one who holds him up. (We recall that in the collapse, poor GD was leaning against slabs and sometimes trying to hold up slabs of concrete as well. Here he holds on to MS)
A thought struck me that at times MS is depicted a bit like a big sister/mum-figure with him. He sadly lost both parents and had only his loan shark Halmeom who gave him tough love after some time of knowing him.
Where MS appeared like a mum/big sister:
– Like the time he came to meet her outside the bank and she dusted him off and tried to neaten his hair.
– Like when she threatened him in the text messages to respond or she’d go and find him.
– And here, on the stairs, she let him hug her, hearing her heartbeats, like a baby sometimes needs to have mum hold him close to her heart. She also almost stroked his hair, the way we do with little children.
Looking back, I find the 3rd Staircase Scene, more companion-like or familial than purely romantic. GD was in anguish and he was concerned that MS might be suffering the same way. He’d just found out that she had hit her head and lost her memories. He wanted assurances that she was fine, and seeing that she was, he hugged her out of relief and for comfort. He felt assured that he could lean on her now, because she seemed more okay than him.
At this stage, MS still did not know that GD saw her as a fellow victim, buried with him in the rubble. So she was taken by surprise at his desperate urgency to know if she was okay, and then by his hug. This time is was a hug that begged for protection from her, instead of the other way around. She’d seen him go crazy in the rain, digging out the wall, and now she sees him like this on the stairs. He is willing to show her his vulnerable side. She comes to know that she’s not the only damaged person in the relationship.
Up to EPISODE 7
*SPOILERS*
@Kate @Viva
As I go over our previous comments, more thoughts strike me.
You said
By the way, fans of Lee Junho can find a link to a compilation of photos and videos of him by Kfangurl. I’m linking back to BOD though, as my post with link is already there at the bottom of the comments. Enjoy! 🙂
Just finished the drama today and loved every minute of it. Jun Ho looking cool in a parka reminded me of Jang Hyuk in Money Flower.
I just realised that I forgot to leave the link back to BOD Bitch Talk – What are we watching in January 2022 for my post with the Lee Junho Kfangurl link.
https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2022/01/01/bitch-talk-what-are-we-watching-in-jan-2022/
Let me indulge myself in elucidating some more thoughts on the…
The Bus Ride/Bus Stop Motif (My post on this is above thread ☝️)
@Kate
You said
Yup I go back to thinking about bus stops, bus trips, and getting on or off the same bus at the same time or not. Those of us who’ve watched this Show til the end, know that there were times it seemed they were on 2 different buses, but I feel that in GD’s darkest times, MS let him go on his own bus and she followed on another bus, not too far behind. 🙂
EPISODES 1-8
*SPOILERS*
1) GD’s first attempt at getting to know MS was at a bus stop followed by a bus ride. In the same way MS’s first opening up to GD was at a bus stop. The bus stop here is a starting place for their journey. Their starting location was significantly opposite the front of ‘S Mall’ the place where teenage GD had first noticed MS passing by with her sister. Inside the Mall on the 3rd Floor, GD was to notice her again, and after the collapse, they spent 2-3 days in the rubble, keeping each other company. What more appropriate place to begin (or re-do?) their relationship journey.
First bus stop scene – GD who did not need to take a bus, sat with MS and struck up a conversation with her. He probably wanted to enter her consciousness, because it looked like three times already, she’d seen him and forgotten him! LOL (Poor chap). He wanted her to see him as an acquaintance at least.
MS was a bit suspicious of him then, and no wonder, since he really was stalking her. The bus trip was GD’s means of getting information about her. They sat and traveled separately on the same bus, got down at the same stop, but had different objectives for their trip. However the end result was that MS remembered GD. (Progress!)
EPISODES 1-8
*SPOILERS*
The Bus Ride/Bus Stop Motif continued
2) The second bus stop scene to note was in Episode 3, after GD saved MS from the watery hole and they both got rained on. They began again at the same bus stop. MS chose not to go comfortably in Yoo Jin’s car, preferring GD’s company. GD lent her his jacket and waited with her at the bus stop. She didn’t know that he didn’t need to take the bus, but that he was just keeping her company.
They were on totally different wavelengths. She was stunned that he didn’t get on the bus with her, so she got off and this time, did the stalking. GD is buoyed by MS’s coming back to thank him, and gives her a donut twist. MS’s reciprocity marked tremendous progress in their acquaintanceship.
3) The third bus scene of note was in Episode 6. It takes place after MS has failed to reach GD the whole day after he suffers an episode of hallucinations, after seeing the corpse of the mother of a Mall victim. She’d texted him curtly and had gone to see him at his motel room.
GD was a little eager to get her home. He walked MS to the bus stop during which time she apologised for letting him see the corpse alone and informed him that she’d been present at the dead woman’s cremation. This showed her consideration.
Seeing MS’s bus arrive, GD takes her hand. They run hand-in-hand, and totally bypass the bus stop. It was no longer needed as a starting point in their relationship. He stops the bus for her and gets her safely onto it. She’s actually unwilling to be separated from him so suddenly and so soon, so she keeps her eyes trained on him as she walks to the back of the bus and it pulls away. He also remains standing on the street looking at her.
Getting MS onto the bus was a caring and protective gesture, but once again, they are physically separated. MS bridges that gap (the SPACE between lovers) by texting GD again. This time her message is warm instead of curt. She says that they are one team and should work together. GD smiles at this. Their prolonged, mutual eye contact, spoke of them being already in a close relationship.
By contrast, JW too has been texting, calling, and looking for MS, but she had not responded even once to JW.
EPISODES 1-8
*SPOILERS*
The Bus Ride/Bus Stop Motif continued
4) The fourth bus scene of note was after GD and MS had spent the day at the amusement park and the night together sitting/sleeping on a bench by the sea. They’d had an altercation with an unreasonable pineapple seller, and GD had insisted that MS let out her frustrations instead of holding back her feelings. Perhaps that aids in MS letting go a bit, because she happily gets drunk, and reveals that she likes GD with a little kiss.
She wakes up on GD’s shoulder, wrapped in his jacket, but forgets about the kiss. To him it is natural that he should offer her his hand to help her up. She accepts his hand wordlessly, and the space between them has changed.
We get no bus stop scene since they are no longer at the start. GD knows that MS likes him and his gestures have shown that he reciprocates.
They stand together in the bus, on the trip home, then manage to get seats. GD is surprised that MS can’t remember the kiss.
GD : “It must be due to your small head, right?” (LOL)
MS : “What?”
GD : “Your head is small, your capacity to remember must be less than others, right?” (Bwahahahah. No, it is because she was drunk!)
MS : “Why? Did I do something crazy last night?”
GD stares at her.
MS thinks quickly : “That wasn’t me. I have too many of me inside me, so I don’t know who it was last night. Anyhow, that’s not the current me.” (This is a bus ride of discoveries for GD.)
GD takes care that MS gets a seat and later she gets him to sit beside her. We see their mutual care-giving.
MS chooses to reveal her intimate connected to the S Mall collapse. It’s no longer something that she wants to hide from him although she continues to not speak of her sister to JW.
MS : “My younger sister’s name is on the memorial.”
GD says he knows since the similarity of the names of the two sisters showed that they were likely related.
MS : “We have one less house we need to visit.”
GD reveals that he too is connected in the same way : “It’s two less houses. Number 30, Lee Chul Woo. He’s my dad.”
On this bus ride, MS and GD are on the same page, going in the same direction. However although they may have started to make their journey together, they stop at different places.
5) The fifth traveling scene of note is not a bus ride but a car ride in Episode 5 and it’s MS who drives. It’s a whole new continuation of their journey.
GD tosses the car key at MS which she catches.
MS : “Aren’t you going to put on your seatbelt?”
GD : “No. I feel trapped.” (That’s his trauma speaking.)
In the reverse trope of how the man drives and gets the girl strapped into the passenger seat, and it’s supposed to be a ‘couple moment’ LOL. MS reaches across GD to get his seatbelt and buckle him in. They lock eyes. It’s a look of challenge and awareness.
He hands her one of the canned drinks he’d gotten from the vending machine (by kicking it!) and MS says innocently : “You must have had some coins today.” GD says nothing but opens the can for her with a knowing smile LOL. She takes a sip happily.
At first he makes a terrible backseat driver and incenses MS. She scares him by stopping the car suddenly.
MS : “You drive!”
GD : “I want to. I’m sure I’d be super good if I did. but what can I do? My legs don’t listen to me at times. The country won’t give me permission to hold this steering wheel.”
He puts one foot on the dashboard and gets an earful from MS.
MS : “Put your leg down. Don’t you know that’s dangerous!” He obeys.
They do not manage to travel back together, but although GD is not entirely happy that MS gets to take the wheel, he accepts that she can take the lead from time to time. She has taken his hand and he entrusts his life to her LOL.
EPISODES 1-8
*SPOILERS*
The Bus Ride/Bus Stop Motif continued
6) The sixth traveling together scene is in Episode 8, in a huge freight truck, and tiny MS is the driver. LOL.
The preliminary to this is GD coming to MS’s office to find out what materials are needed to start the construction. She gives him the information over lunch.
GD : “Okay.” He gets up to leave but she’s not willing to see him go.
MS :”Are you leaving?” He opens a bottle of water for her and tells her to eat her lunch slowly.
But once again MS decides that the separation is too sudden and too soon. She follows him. They look for truck driver/delivery people who may know the suppliers of the right materials without success.
GD sits to rest his tired legs.
GD : “Why did you follow and struggle along with me? Go.”
MS : “I don’t want to. Let’s go together.” (She insists on being his companion).
GD : “This is pathetic. No support. No ability. I don’t have a good education and even my legs are giving me trouble. Even if I don’t have much, how could I have nothing, like this? There’s nothing I can do with my own ability.” (This is a lot of openness coming from GD, who previously refused to answer MS’s many questions).
MS : “That’s not true. Even with all those things. There are many people who would ignore and don’t help out. (Even people who have a good education, ability, support, etc do not help.) You don’t know how great a guy you are.” GD is affected by this acknowledgement and smiles at MS.
When they get hold of the materials and the truck their conversation goes:
MS : “Don’t worry. My dad used to drive a freight truck.”
GD : “It worries me. It was your dad who was the driver. Not you.”
MS : “I have a license.” She marches happily up to the truck.
GD : “Really? Seriously?”
She’s happy and excited to get into the driver’s seat but GD is nervous. LOL This time GD straps on his seatbelt and holds on tight without MS having to nag him.
She sounds the loud horn to get slow vehicles out of the way.
MS : “Did you see that? Did you see everyone getting scared and moving out of the way?” (MS’s power trip LOL.) “It’s so awesome.”
GD : “I saw so look straight ahead and drive. I think you’re crazy, right now.”
MS : “Don’t worry. If I die alone, that’s fine. But I won’t hurt other people.” (After the tragedy, MS does not take the lives of others for granted. Hence her dedication to checking the blueprints and the site.)
I love how when the Project Manager was being obnoxious towards JW and asked if he expected the materials he wanted to drop from the sky (heaven), MS sounded the horn. It was the sound of a truck driven by an angel (MS was in a white coat, in a white truck), delivering the materials.
GD discovers that no matter how small MS is, she’s determined, feisty, unafraid. In fact that’s rather like himself. They drive back to the truck parking lots and he takes a photo of her that shows her joy. Even MS’s Dad notices when he sees the photos.
Dad : “Who is it? Who took the picture where you’re smiling so prettily?”
They’d spent the day together in unity of purpose, helping each other and GD had to sometimes let MS take the lead again. It turned out a resounding success.
EPISODE 8
*SPOILERS*
7) Episode 8 – The Unexpected Date and the Seventh Bus Stop/Bus Scene of note
Halmeom has brought MS and GD together, only to find that they are already friends. She kicks them out to ‘date’ and the OTP end up in the playground where MS pushes GD on the swing. So their starting point was not a bus stop but the playground.
MS : “Your parents must have suffered a lot when you were young.”
GD : “What?”
MS : “The back of your head is totally round. Like a baseball. That means you didn’t calmly lie around. Or you were crying all day so your mum had to carry you all day.”
GD : “I don’t know. I can’t remember. How about you?”
MS : “I was totally calm. When she laid me down in the morning, I was like that until evening.”
GD : “Really?”
MS : “Of course. Do you think I’m like you?”
GD : “Then, the back of your head must be totally flat.”
He gets up to feel the back of her head, seemingly unconscious that it MS is terribly aware of him.
GD laughs while feeling her head : “It’s really flat.”
MS : “You must be happy that you have a round head.
She moves back but he pulls her in for a long hug.
GD : “You were a really good kid, huh?”
They stand at the bus stop as the bus arrives. In the reverse of GD trying to get MS onto the bus, this time he holds her back. He grabs her hand : “Can you take the next bus?” They are waiting at a bus stop again. They are starting a new phase in their relationship, not at the S Mall bus stop, but the one near GD’s home.
They remain sitting together hand-in-hand, in silence, at the bus stop. When the next bus comes, GD stands up but it’s MS who remains seated and does not let go of his hand. So they miss that bus, and the next one as well. They enter a new phase in their relationship because they sit without talking, until MS summons the courage to speak.
MS : “I’m not a good kid.” (This is her second revelation at a bus stop).
GD : “Hmm?”
MS : “I have a huge scar on the back of my head. You didn’t know that earlier, huh? I heard I got hurt in an accident, but I can’t remember. The only thing I remember is that I left my sister there alone. I remember that there was another person who couldn’t come back because of me. But I alone am living a good life, perfectly well… I’m bad, huh?”
She looks for a reassuring response. GD can’t answer, maybe he feels he too has similar demons. He looks away and MS is dejected. She lets go of his hand and stands up to board the bus.
He gets up to interlace his fingers with hers, which is a more intimate connection than just holding hands, in answer to her question.
GD : “No.”
He takes the bus with her and they hold hands the whole way with a smile for each other.
On the Radio the DJ says: ‘A happy time filled with dreams and music. It’s midnight.’
MS’s thoughts: ‘an uneventful moment when today becomes tomorrow, I really like this moment.’ (It seemed uneventful on the outside, but it was a turning point in their relationship.)
That was their first real date (not counting the amusement park where they were distracted). They were headed for the same place and were physically, emotionally, and mentally on the same page, and it took place at the bus stop and on a bus ride. They made an intentional journey together. As a prerequisite of a first date, GD brought MS home.
Hey @GB 🙂 I am saving your excellent as usual comments on ep 7 and 5 and will read that when I am up to there. I have finished re watching ep 4. My thoughts:
Episode 4
Yes, it is nice that MS and GD are walking down the stairs together this round. I love their comic reading moments on the rooftop. You nicely point out that it is metaphor. Funny when YT thinks his time is more valuable than GD and MS. He has to buy Ma-ri time. It is ironic, isn’t it? The time GD and MS share together is priceless, they learn about each other and found happiness simply reading straight forward comics. When YT has all these lonely nights that he has no one that interests in him without paying.
A few swoony moments between GD and MS:
1. The night club when he protects her from the bar customers
2. MS and GD had a drink together and GD was singing.
3. Of course, the comic reading session! Junho has the best falling in love smile when he secretly glanced over MS.
A few lines I love:
At the construction site, when MS keep asking GD if he was there at S Mall.
GD: Coming here without notice and asking the same question until you get the answer you want is also a kind of violence.
In life, I too find it annoying when people keep pestering until they get what they want. It may not be physical, but it is also intrusive, self-centred and like GD said, it is a kind of violence.
In the nightclub:
GD: How could things get any worse?
Mari: How naive you are. Don’t be relaxed thinking this is as bad as it gets.
GD: You know I like you, right?
Mari: Yes. But everyone leaves me after saying that.
Mari said it as a matter of fact style. No hard feelings. I guess if we live life a bit, we will know all these “I like you”s/romantic feelings are quite fickle and easily changed. Sometimes due to youth, sometimes human just forgot how they fell in love in the first place because of living. And because Mari has lived life, she knows things can get worse than you can imagine. People come and go in life.
In the playground where Granny and GD are talking
GD: Some say knowledge is power, and some say the opposite.
Granny: What kind of nonsense is that?
GD: I know. (smile) Which one is right? What if the person doesn’t know? Should I let her know or not?
Granny: Just leave her be. It’s a strength to know that ignorance is bliss.
GD: Still.
She seems to have forgotten everything. That’s not fair.
Granny: Who knows? She may not feel at ease though. Crying louder doesn’t mean a bigger pain.
GD gave it some thoughts and got Granny to stop smoking and get up. When we may be talking about MS here. I also thought of GD. He doesn’t cry any more, but it doesn’t mean he has no pain.
@GB Apart from Just between Lovers, I also wonder why the Netflix title is Rain or Shine. Is it because of the ice cream shop’s name? I found it touching when MS is thoughtful enough to know that the whole family is mourning, but not for the same thing. Mourning the loss of your child, is never going to be the same is mourning the loss of the sibling. It doesn’t mean one weight less than the others though. It’s very delicate. MS been through the trauma and have to “put up” with her mother’s absence. The mum has to live with the guilt of not there when her child is dead. I don’t know if I would be able to mourn “better” if I am in their shoes.
@Kate, take your time! Hope things are Ok with the organising. I can imagine it is no easy task. I too am taking my time. It’s such a pleasure we can talk about drama we love in depth in when we can find time. Thank you @GB and everyone for responding in depth. It is such a joy 🙂
Oh yes @GB now you mentioned, I went and have a look. I SHOULD be too old to fangirl. She did do a great collection and provided strong and compelling reasons in the post though lol! I too got pulled in to Kpop the first time and added 2pm songs in my playlist. It must be a collective global post TRS syndrome.
@Viva, thanks.
About YT and his valuable time – I find him the most pitiable of the lot. Ineffectual and unloved. He can only buy some attention from a Madame, or remain alone.
It’s true as you say, GD and MS spent time together without counting the cost and it was priceless.
He also came to accept that although MS could not remember, it did not mean that she suffered less. It only appeared that way.
I was playing around with some ideas about the different titles upthread. I take the image of MS with the umbrella as a clue to the title: ‘Rain or Shine’.
Separately, I’d like to imagine that this title also alludes to how the survivors have become stronger for their terrible experiences, and can manage to live well, rain or shine.
I’ve yet to go into 2PM songs for Junho. I’m wary of the neverending rabbit hole of fandom!!! LOL.
@(GB), 8f you want to go on a fandom tear, there is an episode of Men on A Mission featuring 2PM after they all did their military service. I woke up in the middle if the night(elderly sleeping pattern) and found it. Taecyeon is also a group member. All the group members were funny and charming and there were musical and dance performances. Lots of “embarassment” too. You can find it on Netflix. It doesn’t require lots of hours but you do get a sense of who they actually are. South Korea certainly finds so many talented people for a relatively small country (compared to its nearby neighbors China and India). With streaming we’re going to see much, much more. However, the downside may be the loss of cultural difference that makes the current experience so good.
So sorry(NOT) to be a source of temptation, but this episode was so much fun….
My Dear OAL,
Thanks very much (I think, LOL)!! If I really want to get down to it, there’s so, so much of Junho in the Internet. Below is a link to jlml718’s blog that is dedicated to 2PM, and while the other members of the band have a very respectable 60-90 posts on them, our Junho has 233!!
https://jlml718.home.blog/category/2pm-members/junho-%ec%a4%80%ed%98%b8/
He also has his own VLOG on YT, started around 3 months ago, plus many, many offerings of fans, so you can imagine the amount of time one can spend on just him.
His VLOG … https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCowTHOjp47dzNxR8cz83LGA
Suffice it to say, that I (try to) keep my links for a ‘rainy’ day, when I’m utterly bored of watching what’s airing. 😉
@the fabulous (GB), So much Junho, so little time. I ALSO mSAW HIS home Alone/I Live Alone show with his gym and his cats. I think, given all of the new and exciting dramas coming our way, we won’t be bored.
I actually watched a movie last night, The Name with Jeon Somin. I cried at the end and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also am watching the J Drama @packmule3 recommended a long time ago with Dr. Tendo, the tsundere-love it too. Also found Love In the Kitchen, another of her recommendations on Viki-now on my watch list. Amazon Prime has a whole lot of new dramas and movies. That’s where I watched The Name. Occasional old age insomnia gives me time to watch new things, but my husband has said I have an addictive personality. So before I go to rehab, I have to cut back on my viewing. BoD is helpful because I can choose a drama and join the discussion, preventing me from going cold turkey.
Rain or Shine I s my goto drama now. It is well worth the watch for me. I am also enjoying the Bus conversation here. This mode of transportation actually is great for moving the plot along. The writer finds so many clever ways to show the slowly building relationship and the bus stop and busses prove to be wonderful settings.
Hi all, thank you for kind words @Viva also.
Emerging from current situation and I read and watched the KFangurl compilation – thank you @GB – to switch off before going to sleep. As a result I dreamed I was a friend or something of Junho’s and we were travelling somewhere across London, on the tube, together. I remember thinking this was a bit strange but, of course, accepting the situation too! I think we bumped into one or two fans on the way and I remember thinking that this wouldn’t be great in the longer term.
ps just shared for a laugh! Look forward to rejoining you all next week.
Hi All, you can tell that I’m savouring this Show. No need to gallop ahead to Episodes 9-12 or beyond.
Back to EPISODES 4 and 7 – Thoughts on camera work and ‘What if’ Questions
*SPOILERS*
MS finds herself paired up with GD to design a new memorial. They visit the stone mason who advises them on the stone and on what a memorial is supposed to do for the living.
MS says she does not want the memorial to look like a tombstone.
GD :”I’m saying what’s the point if you just make it pretty and engrave peoples’ names?”
(MS and GD thought that the stone was just to mark that people died there.)
Stone mason : “Oh you two don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t erect this just to remember those who died. It for the people who survived after sending their loved ones away, those who lived on because they are unable to die. The Memorial is for them to come and be as sad as their hearts allow them to be. We haven’t forgotten them either. It’s giving comfort to them through this piece of rock.”
After this, they sit outside a neighbourhood supermarket. The camera view shows them small and in the corner, ie they’ve been taken down a peg by the wise words of the stone mason and are feeling a little small.
MS says of the stone mason : “Making it so people could be as sad as their hearts allow them to be. I think he’s right.”
GD : “Did you see his hands? His hands were like a piece of rock. People who focus on one thing all their lives,…what they say is usually correct.”
MS nods. They are eating ice popsicles (again), although over and over MS had said she does not care for sweet things.
MS : “If you hadn’t destroyed the memorial…”
GD : “Don’t do it.”
MS defensively : “What did I do?”
GD : “Don’t say ‘what if’. There is no end. What if I didn’t go there. What if I hadn’t done that? What if? If you start, there is no end.”
(This chat reminds me of Our Beloved Summer and Yeon Su insisting on these questions that led to a ‘bad’ end.)
However some days later in Episode 7 we have a counterpoint to ‘What if’. As an illustration of how connected they are to each other, they each had gone to the other’s homes to wait for each other. (They should have just called each other to arrange a meeting!!!)
GD runs over to where MS is waiting for him. They once again end up eating ice-cream. MS again says that she does not like sweet things. (But GD seems to want to sweeten her life. LOL.)
He forgets that they are not exactly dating and wipes off some of the cream from her lips, which makes them both pause in awareness. He just brushes it off. By this time MS has shared that her sister’s name is on the memorial stone, so they had one less house to visit and GD had revealed that there were 2 less houses to visit, since his father had also died in the collapse. They were alike in their loss as a result of the collapse.
MS voluntarily speaks of her sister, Yun Soo, who had been the model for the ice cream commercial.
In a reverse of the ‘What if’ questions that GD advised to never start asking, they play a game of ‘What a waste’… and predict what could have been their current situation, had the collapse not taken place. That they are able to speak openly about their dead family members, their previous dreams and what they could have looked forward to, without rancour or pain, is a testament that their healing has begun in the presence of each other. Somehow it was only possible when they found each other and started to share their own circumstances. They were able to speak of their losses with a cheerful regret. They could look at their ‘could-have-beens’ with good grace. But they could only banter this way with each other. Their BETWEEN space had been narrowed and contained friendship and understanding.
MS turns to GD to say of Yun Soo : “If she grew up as she was, she would be a star by now.”
Then my life would have been much easier too. I could have lived without working, thanks to my younger sister.”
GD : “Oh, what a waste. Thanks to you, I could have dined with and dated an actress. That could have been nice.”
MS : “That’s not true. How can you date an actress?”
GD : “Hey on that day, (He remembers that it was a sad day and pauses but rallies) on that day, I was supposed to go watch the World Cup qualifying match with Dad. If I had rooted for the Korean team, we would have beaten Saudi Arabia 5-0. And at the next world cup game, I would have scored a goal in a dashing manner.”
GD : “A world cup star and an actress. Don’t they go well together? Oh, what a waste ”
They are both smiling at the game of pretend.
MS : “I know, whatever it may have been, what a waste. By the way, did you play soccer?”
GD’s smile disappears and he looks at MS, but continues in good humour.
GD : “Oh, what a waste. A waste for you and a waste for me.”
MS : “I know. If that was the case, I would have dated a soccer player too.”
GD teases : “How can you date a soccer player? That’s a different story.”
Camera work – I mentioned the camera angle that made our leads look small in the frame. Here’s more on the use of the camera and the tilt-shift lens from a comment in Dramabeans by @Tom. I learnt so much more than expected from this Show and from great commentors like @Tom.
“Nearly all shots of GD and MS are framed to make them appear small in their environments. This is most obvious in institutions. However, even in the office the frequent number of below/above eye-level diminish their size by emphasising both the physical space but also increase the complexity and visual dominance of the room’s furniture and elements. The shots often use tilt/shift lenses to distort our normal perception of perspective (moving the centre of vision down lower and this gives that sinking feeling.”
@Tom says, and I agree that the use of the camera and angles, with objects making it look like the inside of buildings look at odds with GD, shows “his troubled relationship with grief and institutions.”
This explains why he won’t live with his well brought up sister, and prefers to live on the fringe. Institutions failed GD. He had to give up school in order to earn a living, even with a lame leg, because not only did they lose the income from his dad, but they received no compensation. No institutions helped him. Then he had to borrow 1 million won from a loan shark to pay for his mother’s hospitalisation and he supported his younger sister into medical school. He had to manage it all from when he was a 16-year old boy.
I need to look out for more camera work because until now, I miss so many things about this thoughtfully made Show.
Episode 5
Question – At the beginning, what do you think GD wanted to tell JW? What makes JW and MS were so deep into the conversation that GD couldn’t join them? I noticed MS always left JW behind and chased after GD. It is obvious, isn’t it, that who is top on her list?
Swoony MS and GD moments:
1. MS pulled the seat belt for GD, and GD handed her a drink.
2. MS tidied GD’s hair and suit after his fight.
Isn’t that nice? Love is when you start caring for someone else safety, remember she was thirsty last time or worried about his messy hair. They remind me a little of Park Hyun Sik and Han Hyo Joo on that aspect.
Clever observation of life from Mari
When the annoying YT was in fact upset after being told off by his sister. He went to the bar not wanting to go home. Mari is asking why.
YT: But my father said I should never share my hardships with other people.
Mari: Why not?
YT: If I say my life is tough, he said 99 people out of 100 will be thrilled.
Mari: Why do you care about the 99? You can do millions of things with the one person. I will be that one person for you.
YT: Really?
Mari: If the price is right (with a smile)
Mari is ever so clever, who cares about 99, when you can do millions with the ONE. Clever dialogues with numbers too. A much better “return” if you invest wisely. Millions to one.
Sad moments
1. My heart sank when I found out MS was rescued on day 3 and GD, day 7. After seeing MS rescued on day 3 and be with a dead body for potentially further 4 days. Double the time what MS went though. What an agony for him. 🙁
2. When GD said he is an idiot. What did life do to him to let a survivor thought he is an idiot? @Kate like you said, it is wonderful to hear that MS said you are not one bit of an idiot. Another beautiful moment of the show.
3. When GD felt so alone after seeing another dead body. There was no one to be there for him. I was hoping someone would at least show up, but he ended up facing the demon on his own. Although, I understand at the end of the day, many of us have moments that we feel there are time we face our “cross” alone.
@GB
About forgetting and remembering, what does it really mean? The building memorial to JW is a matter of “won’t stand out, classy enough to not draw criticism”. To YT possibly is to comply with the requirement like the bank manager pointed out. But for MS, they are the little sister that pops up in her dream, or the first love that she “caused” his death. To GD it is agony, hallucination that SJ was angry at him of leaving him behind. He doesn’t need to be reminded of. It is with him: having a debt of 10 years, a painful leg, or rob off the ability to drive (and many other opportunities in life). Or, does that means he have the empathy for someone else, that he too, shares the pain the mother went through, that MS went through? He remembers, so he truly understands.
@OAL 2017 ep 34 of Men on a Mission is the JBL promotion episode. Junho and Yoon Se Ah were there. Also available on Netflix.
@Viva, thanks for sharing the parts that struck you in Episode 5.
Regarding the question that GD asked JW: I thought he wanted to know if the remains of the dead had been removed, and if not, whether they should stop work to locate the remains. JW said that GD had to provide evidence before he could stop the work at the site. The thought of body parts still buried in the site kept bringing on episodes of hallucination for poor GD.
About remembering. I feel that GD was very brave to choose to replace the memorial. He admitted his wrongdoing, he was taking on extra work and it would bring up for him the painful memories plus the guilt-tripping hallucinations. When GD and MS realise that the memorial was for remembering and for survivors to have a place where they could openly grieve, GD could have found that uncomfortable and backed out, but he was committed to it, even suggesting that they should visit the families of victims. It would mean that he had to revisit the mother of Sung Jae who was the subject in his hallucination.
It seems that GD could never forget the terrible time he had, and he didn’t try to forget. All he wanted was for the hallucinations to stop.
MS was the other way around. She wanted to remember but could not. By the end of Episode 14-15, she had come to remember quite a lot, but not everything. We will see that her mind had shut down the memories, because it would have destroyed her self-esteem, had she remembered.
The worst case of remembering was MS’s Mum’s inability to resolve her grief. The memory could trigger her remorse which manifested itself in anger, resentment, fault-finding in MS or her husband, etc.
Hi all and especially @GB:
In praise of savouring a show : https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/hey-binge-watchers-slow-down/?ftag=CAD-03-10aaj8j
I am still catching up on work and life etc but will get back into this series over the weekend.
I thought GB in particular would enjoy the emphasis on the slow watch rather than the binge watch. Perhaps others amongst you are also slow watchers.
I am a binge watcher and devour the show and then re-watch to comment on detail. I don’t know about the others in this discussion. I am challenged to go more slowly now and really ‘live’ the experience of the drama.
Wow @Kate!! Thanks for the link. I read that article with great interest and heartily agree with it. I prefer to not binge as a rule, ie I’m all for watching shows as they air. I love that I can come here and exchange ideas, guesses and reactions with other BODers. We have time to inspire each other with our ‘wild’ conjectures that set us off on new pathways of thought and together grow along with the show.
It’s true that with a completed series, I may binge a few episodes at a time. However wrt the shows that I really want to think about and enjoy, I slow down a great deal to transcribe many of the dialogues.
That’s what I’m doing now with JBL. I’m still watching and re-watching because something struck me, but I need to check on where I saw or heard what. It’s very relaxing and enjoyable, doing it a bit at a time. That the show holds up well even on a slow re-watch, is testament to what a carefully made, complex, layered and endearing work it is. I still find myself discovering things that never occurred to me before.
So I’ll read you again @Kate. By all means catch up, but do so at a pace that enables your greatest enjoyment! 🙂
Hi @GB Ana @Kate, to me there is no right answer here. Sometimes I’ll binge watch a d sometimes I won’t. To me, when a drama is fully available, the number of episodes is the first thing to guide me. For example, it would be impossible to binge watch 50 episode dramas and have a life(lol). So no binging with the likes of Empress Ki. Then, even with few episodes, the subject matter informs. Squid Game and DP depressed me so I watch when my mood opis better. The same goes for more episode dramas like Misaeng and Beyond Evil. When I am absolutely loving a drama, I won’t binge watch, if available, because I want to savor it likeRain or Shine(Just Between Lovers). And then there are dramas that can’t be binge in their initial runs. That’s when they become appointment TV. Then, there is also the problem of dramas I’ve changed my mind about. HPL and HPL2 would be fast forward binges where I’d quickly go through anything winter garden and some of the surgeries. For me, that series got mixed reviews from me because I like some if the storyline. The same goes for We Are Breaking Up. The main lead storyline did not interest me as much as the several secondary lead storylines, so we’re I to binge it, I’d use fast forward, except maybe on a good kiss scene. Ultimately, the beauty of having streaming services is the number of ways one can view these drama And of course one can repeat scenes to one’s heart’s content. Happy viewing everyone!
Howdy 👋🏻 I love the in depth discussions here. Thanks @GB, @Kate and @AOL. This drama is not an easy watch.
I’ll have to say that my favourite episode though is 13. As much as it was hard to watch, the argument between MS and her Mom, it’s long overdue and it touched on the issue briefly but it was heartbreaking. 😢
I had a tear there but I had more tears with the back hug scene. 😭 I’m so glad our couple are there for each other. I needed it as a viewer. I can understand MS when she said maybe she said too much to her Mom.
For a minute there I thought the ending is a sad one so I had to look it up. 😆 Sigh of relief.
I’m just loving catching up with all the comments, reflections, dialogue transcribed!
It’s so good to accompany one another in this watch/re-watch,
@GB I really enjoyed the bus motif exploration.
I really enjoyed being reminded by you all of favourite scenes.
Too many astute observations to comment on. I think these are in @GB’s compilations:
i. I remember feeling touched on GD’s behalf when he talked his legs not cooperating when MS drove him. His masculine dignity in need of some
protection – he was funny and vulnerable when he would have wanted to take charge.
ii. There was such an uplift with the triumphant lorry scene wasn’t there?! The smallness of our heroine in this huge truck pulling along containers. And, of course, the comedy value of GD sitting there next to her in what was a white knuckle experience. She does it too and drives onto the building site with beautiful dramatic timing,
iii. The later ‘what if’ conversation as GD and MS walk down some stairs together is also charming… whimsical survivor humour!
@Viva – the YT Mari development is interesting and refreshing. He is strangely self-aware. She helps him be in his most real place.
@Kate, Another wonderful part of this drama is how it handled developmental and physical disabilities. Each lead had a close friend with a disability. The friendships were true and the presentation of the people who had these range true because they were fully realized. The young woman cartoonist actually had a .ibido and a handsome boyfriend. She expressed her feelings and was a great sounding board for MS. Our young neighbor and friend to GD was not treated in a patronizing way. His feelings were actually explored and, in fact, while being protected by GD and his own mother, he actually became a protector. I loved the role reversal.
As older BODers know, this is a topic that has personal meaning for me. I will call phoney when I see it, but in our drama there wasn’t a phoney note in it. Our characters rang true. Thank you @Kate for adding a post. You gave me a chance to add this comment that I have spent time thinking about.
@OAL – yes and hear hear! I hadn’t seen this and connected the dots here… What a compliment to this drama that you say ‘ there wasn’t a phoney note in it.’
I loved the scene where GD’s neighbour overpowered him with some form of Chinese martial art. Wonderful role reversal as you say! Laughing here as I remember that.
People are both real, and fragile/wounded and allowed to transcend the limited stories they may well have been given in another drama/context.
@Kate and @OAL, so true. Not a false note with the characters! I almost call them real persons in my mind. Often I really do not see the actors, I see Gang Doo and Moon Soo, Wan Jin and Sang Man. They inhabit my mind, interacting as real people, being true to themselves.
I’ve got Ep 16 to transcribe, and then I wanted to bring the moments of Forgetting and Remembering together to see if there is a pattern. It does not matter if there is or isn’t, but it brings up the question of whether it is just as good to be forgetful as it is to have one’s full memory of painful circumstances.
About the time before the rescue…what comes to my mind is that, in the long days of waiting for rescue, alone, speaking only to oneself, living in fear, Gang Doo and even Moon Soo would have had difficulty in making out what was real and what was imagined, what came before and what came after.
We see this in the many scenarios of GD with MS where at different times, they are together or apart, separated by rubble or not, able to see each other or not. As the rubble shifted with the work of rescue going on, circumstances changed.
Once again I quote the words of a wise commentor @Tom.
“There are 3 unknown factors as to events in the rubble:
…We don’t know if the time line we have been shown is in sequence or jumbled.
…Both MS and GD are unreliable witnesses. Not only from the effects of darkness, fear, dehydration during the collapse but also the later distortions of their nightmares (I won’t call them memories).
…The collapsed rubble was probably not stable and would have shifted several times both due to settling and the rescue efforts shifting rubble (This would explain the differences in proximity).
Given GD was actually connected to the building rubble (reinforcing rod in his knee)…I fear that GD trying to free himself may have triggered a further collapse that killed the trapped boy (or coincided with his death).
It almost doesn’t matter if he had to peel the fingers off him before or after the boy died. Either way, his guilt transmogrifies the dead boy’s apparition and haunts his every moment.
Grandmother probably realised the genesis of his pain is deeper than the actual wound… hence her comment that the pills won’t heal the pain in his knee.”
With all these horrors to ‘remember’. What is the greater blessing: to remember or to forget?
I’ll be back after I get my Lunar New Year on its way. Read you later!
Just reflecting further on the way people are depicted in this drama and given well-rounded individuality rather than playing ‘neat’/stereotypical roles to move the plot along…
Who is actually living a full life in this drama is thrown into question… and the character qualities that you need to be fully human and alive in the real world rather than trapped in empty success and expectation.
Of course this includes our ‘baddy’ director too…who gradually reveals a more appealing comedy villain pathos… He embodies power and success … it would appear… but actually prefers bird watching and feels bullied by the board… Another role reversal happens with ‘baddy’ boss who doesn’t pay his workers and gets GD beaten up by his thugs… and then unexpectedly he becomes GD’s ally and tells his sorry tale of supplies stored and going to waste…
@GB… yes… this is a rich vein to probe further.
Very interesting to think of the perspectives we are given in peoples’ memories of being trapped underground.
I think the uncertainty about GD, his leg and the fragility of the rubble + the other guy being trapped – and precisely what happened to him and why – is the reason I can’t watch those scenes other than very briefly.
I end up over identified with GD and MS … and not wanting to know what precisely happened because I don’t want it to go round in my mind …and I am an onlooker only!
Oh @Kate and @GB, what a great discussion. I just watched the last episode again thinking that I’d be set up to cry tears of misery. And for much of it, we did not get sugar coating. In many ways it remained a heck of a ride. There were no easy answers.MS’ parents did not get back together. There was the good surprise that life can bring. But throughout the episode just when you thought we’d see some happiness, the writer v threw in a monkey wrench. I thought that the voice over for the ending explained it well. Again, it wasn’t a pretty bow. It was consistent with how life can be unpredictable.
Hey everyone,
Going through this slowly. @GB Hope to be able to read your analysis on ep 7 and 8 soon!
Episode 6
Ohh I didn’t know chasing after a bus can be that swoony! I love that GD picked up MS hand (is that the first time?) to my surprise. MS kept running back inside the bus just to see GD a few more seconds. She looked at GD through the bus back window. Really need a gif to remember that! I can easily watch it a few times!!!
@Kate @GB, continue counting the bus conversation:
Bus conversation #3
GD sitting in the bus stop catching up on the text messages MS sent him earlier:
“Where are you?”
“Call me.”
If you see this. Call me.”
“If you don’t call me, I am going to find you.”
GD smiled more and more as he read.
GD saw he had a missed call. He called back JW answering his whereabouts and told him at the time he wasn’t with MS.
On the bus, MS thought about GD holding her hands and she got a text message from him. Her face broke into a very warm smile.
“You worked hard alone today, too.”
MS had a smile that comes from the bottom of her heart. She texted back.
“Let’s do everything together next time. Since we are on the same team.”
GD too has that smile when one’s heart is fluttering inside.
I got to say, it is some excellent acting from Won Jin Ah and Junho. So natural. So believable. That is also why I can’t ship Junho with his co-stars. He is good every with all his co-stars so far. That includes Wok of Love, Twenty, Homme Fatale.
In some opening ceremony, YJ and JW were arguing over replacing a security guard. YJ thinks people are easily replaced. That bought back the memory – YJ was trying to convince JW’s father “to overlook it just once”. What is that? Is it something to do with getting JW’s father to take all the blame in order to save CheongYu? Her reason is that the company wouldn’t go bankrupt so they could compensate the victims’ families. JW and YJ’s conversation concluded at:
YJ: You think you’d be different? If you were in my position, you would have done the same.
JW: No, If I were in that position, I would have stayed by your side. It would’ve been hard. But still, we would’ve been better people than now.
@GB and everyone, what are your thoughts on this? In my first watch, I did wonder when YJ so desperately begged JW for his love, JW didn’t move an inch. Through rewatching, I think I understand a little more. YJ by persuading JW’s father to take all the blame, she was no longer by his side. She might not intend for it, but effectively pushed his Dad to death. JW probably resent YJ. To him, YJ treated his father just another person, another “pawn” to save the “King”. His family took the fall so her family survives. YJ, too focus on her family survival, couldn’t see the pain her then boyfriend would have to go through.
Also by saying they would have been “Better people”, JW probably doesn’t like his present self. He is probably not doing what he wants in life. He may be compromising on something.
JW’s crush to MS is clearly one-sided. MS didn’t try very hard to call back JW, explaining it was too late. Quite a contrast to when she rushed to the construction side when GD was working in a raining night at the construction site. Why JW couldn’t see it? lol
GD texted MS a picture of the ice cream wrappers. He now had a much higher expectation of response from MS. He was getting more conscious in front of MS’s dad when Mari grabbed his arm. MS even put a facemask on before meeting GD. Another development of their relationship.
By the way, I love Mari’s comments throughout the episode:
“’A way to overcome pain is through more pain.’ Is there some kind of deep meaning behind it?”
“Weak people. They get excited over something so small.” I thought how true – emotionally vulnerable people can be touched very easily, even one small kind gesture.
“The ***ing love comes when you think it’s all over for you. Get ready so you don’t lose her. Go.” How nice of her encouraging GD! When GD thought you can’t do everything you want in life.
MS’s mum didn’t let MS put make up on due to her pain. I have mixed feelings about that. I am angry at her of not letting MS live her life. At the same time, I am empathetic at her guilt as make up brought back her guilt towards her dead daughter. GD saw it all and the teary MS. He chose to left MS alone. He didn’t run there to offer tender love and care. Is it because he understands sometime, we need to leave someone space to feel sad? Instead, he took her to the amusement park to cheer her up. It may be a K drama trope, but I enjoy watching it! Although there is something JBL touch about this:
*It’s GD who wanted MS to wear the cutie headband. MS didn’t want it and he ended up wearing it. Normally the female lead wants the male lead wears it.
*GD and MS both couldn’t understand why people pay money to be scared. They turned back very quickly and walked away. People who have been really scary moments in real life don’t really chase thrill the same way.
*MS’s heart was not there to play at all.
After the amusement park visit, at lunch, GD first showed sign of loss of appetite. Is that due to his weak liver?
Wow, MS pushed GD to the ground – I didn’t see that coming. I do find it touching when he wasn’t angry at all and taught her to let out of her anger. He understood her, that she was keeping it all inside and encouraged her to let it out. It’s kind of refreshing.
First confession from MS at drinks, “I like men who eat carrot”. GD’ s reaction is just gold! Lol! First kiss and a thank you from MS. Later, we know that MS remembered. For now, she just masked her confession and appreciation with alcohol. The scene when GD held out the hand to MS is also very pretty to look at. With the sun rise in the background, it feels like a new beginning.
oh yes Happy Lunar New Year to you all!
It will be a work day for me where I am not, but I have very found memories of it when I was young! I am off to build the lunar new year lego with my kid now to celebrate!
@Viva – so agree re the swoony quality of these various bus encounters… each small detail reveals something and heightens the romantic tension!
No surprise to anyone here, I am sure… but I continue to find both with K and C dramas that it is the less is more delicacy, the tiny moments, the glance, the hesitation – that create an experience of the romantic relationship that our UK/US dramas don’t know how to depict.
@OAL… am resuming my regular watch later this week … I got so tense about the ending last time that I did a ff just to see what happened… urgh avoidance of pain here. I will watch more steadily as I travel through the second half of the show. Have more themes and questions to raise too… which may prove fruitful.
I should add that I don’t know where you are all from… so your dramas and films may offer more romantic interest than so many of the dramas we are offered in the UK.
Hi Everyone and @Viva,
You were asking for my thoughts on Episodes 7 and 8. I did post some above about the Bus Rides. But here are more thoughts.
Impromptu Date
One that came up was that it was fortunate that in Ep 6, GD had witnessed the altercation between MS and her Mum. He knew that she was bottling up anger, frustration, etc, and with the unreasonable pineapple seller as the catalyst, he got her to at least start to let out her emotions in front of him.
I feel that this was what pushed their impromptu, informal, casual date into a date with personal revelations and a first kiss, plus an all-nighter!!! It might have been what enabled MS to let herself go a lot more with GD. It led MS to allow herself to get so drunk that she kissed him. The openness that this prompted, continued the next day on the bus when she informed him voluntarily that her sister was an S Mall victim.
This is a far different MS from the one who in Episode 4 kept asking him questions he didn’t want to answer, and who took issue with him for speaking casually with her.
At that time, he refused to tell her how he knew they were the same age so that speaking casually was a given… that’s because she must have told him her age, when they were trapped in the collapsed mall.
Impromptu Date with Meals and Ice cream
@Viva, GD’s not eating was earlier established, and it was not due to his health. He is a picky eater.
In Episode 4, After MS eats lunch that GD does not find palatable, he says she should pay for lunch since she ate everything by herself. Instead he buys them each an ice-cream.
MS complains about the price of the ice-cream : “This is too expensive. What’s the difference between the price of a meal and this?”
GD : “Just say thanks and eat it. You should be able to taste something sweet like this in life.”
I believe I may have mentioned that MS eating ice-creams, which she began by not liking, is be a repeated motif. I know that MS keeps saying that she does not like sweet food, but she did ask Sung Jae to meet her at the ice cream parlour. I wonder if her dislike for sweet things arose also from associating ice cream with the collapse. In any case all the occasions where either GD or MS bought an ice cream for the other, it showed their care and consideration for the other. In GD’s case, I felt that he wanted to give MS something sweet in life, because he’d knew she was a survivor like him, and he’d seen her trauma at her fist work site visit.
In Episode 6, MS leaves ice popsicles in the work site fridge for GD, which he completely finishes in one sitting. Then he sends her a photo of the popsicle wrappers made into a shape of a smiley. That was a kind of long distance, dating remotely LOL.
I like the next impromptu date when GD and MS both had the same idea and went to each other’s homes. Once again GD buys ice cream for MS and it looks like it’s becoming an inadvertent part of their informal ‘dates’. Again also MS says she does not like sweet things but she eats the ice cream dutifully. It gives GD the unexpected opportunity to wipe her lips LOL.
I mentioned before that their banter of ‘what a waste’ was a nice counter balance to MS wanting to ask ‘what if’ questions previously, which GD refused to entertain.
Not Dashing Gang Doo, Jealous Moon Soo and Mummy Hearts
In Episode 7, it occurred to me that the reason GD berates himself for being lame when meeting MS’s mum, is that he always wants to appear dashing and cool in front of MS, but he was an awkward dork instead.
GD makes himself scarce in the face of Mum’s disapproving stare.
He says to himself : “What was that? It’s not like you’re at a job interview. Also, why did you flee? It’s not like you’ve committed a crime or anything. You’re an idiot.”
Episode 8, Moon Soo gets jealous when she sees GD come out of Yoo Jin’s car.
MS is surprised to see GD come out of YJ’s car. GD offers to help MS carry up the snacks she had been sent out to buy. She refuses, miffed that he’d been smiling at Yoo Jin LOL.
GD : “You little girl…You sure don’t listen to me.”
MS : “Why do you keep saying I’m small? I’m petite.” She walks off. This is the first time he sees her annoyed. He’d been teasing her the previous night that she was so small, he didn’t see her outside the Milky Way motel.
However, I like that it’s the ‘little’ girl who drives the big truck, that enables GD to fulfill what he set out to do, and that saves the day for Joo Won.
Episode 8 also has the mothers’ hearts’ palpitating scene that got me laughing. The expression on MS’s Mum’s face when she looked at Joo Won compared to when she looked at GD, couldn’t be more different.
When Joo Won came and helped fix the Bathhouse pipes, LOL the difference in EXPRESSIONS on the faces of Mum and Aunt Geum, who were admiring JW’s long body and legs. MS however looked uncomfortable, awkward and desiring to get JW away from her Mum.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTd1peajpIoW-hnwbIKaRKL_UpXfDM-g/view?usp=sharing
After they admire JW, they feed him. Mum’s cooking is not great so MS tells him he does not need to finish the food. LOL. JW sees a picture of Yeon Soo. He asks MS about her sister, but unlike with GD, MS does not want to talk to JW about her. She sees him off. Aunty Geum reads what it means that her face is not bright and happy, which is better than Mum, who can only see what she wants to see.
Mum wishes that MS would meet someone like JW who grew up without a dark side. LOL but everyone has a dark side. “Not like that mutt (she refers to GD) soaked in rain last time. So pathetic.” (MS likes GD in Rain or Shine so Mum’s words have no impact on her.)
Another Impromptu Date
But no matter what comes in the form of Yoo Jin or Joo Won, the episode ends with Halmeom taking the initiative to get MS and GD to meet. Seeing that the two of them know each other, she kicks them out and they have a very sweet impromptu date again, that seals the fact that they are dating, without formally saying so.
I like how comfortable they are together at the playground, how MS wants to deserve GD’s words when he says she must have been a really good kid. How they keep missing the buses so that they can sit together for a longer time at the bus stop, which seems to be their next fave meeting/dating place, after ice cream eating, it seems.
I like how unlike with JW, MS voluntarily (again) tells GD about the scar on the back of her head and how guilty she felt having left her sister and someone else behind while she forgot the details of the horror and lived well. She told him that she must be a bad person. She let go of GD’s hand to leave. Instead of being sent off (as in how MS sent off JW), GD opts to accompany her all the way home on the bus, holding her hand, to show her that he didn’t think she was a bad person.
*SPOILER*
This attitude is mirrored by MS later, when she pulls her hand from GD’s grasp only to embrace him, and opts to spend the night with GD even after he told her to leave.
Episode 7 – An Aside : Joo Won finds out to his shock, that his mother married Yoo Taek’s father quite willingly ie she did actually love her 2nd husband. He’s a bit devastated because he is his dad’s son, but his mother is no longer his dad’s wife.
Later that night, JW comes to YJ’s apartment.
Yoo Jin asks Joo Won : “Why are you so annoyed? … Ah, are you upset to hear that you mother loves another man?”
JW : “What do you know about my mum to talk about her?”
YJ : “How about you? What do you know? I think, I, at least know about your mother’s heart. You’re tall but you’re still a kid. ‘My mum can only love my dad’, is it something like that?”
The unexpected love between his mother and step father was another case of Just Between Lovers, where the space between the couple was filled with grown up offspring, who struggled to work together while they could not even get on personally or as family. JW’s mother did not want to be alone, so she chose to live with a man who would need her, since JW’s dad chose to abandon her and JW by killing himself. After this, she was even more alone because JW was away and when back, he did not spend time with her. Her marriage was a space filled with drudgery and being a nursemaid, but at least she was not alone.
For all that he appears successful and well put together, JW is far from at peace with himself, or even at home in his own home. His emotional letdown over his mum’s ‘betrayal’ of his dad makes him literally sick so that MS brings him porridge. She’s stunned to see his empty home, with things unpacked, still in boxes, and where the curtains have never been drawn to let in the light. Beyond the curtains is a beautiful view, but Joo Won has never bothered to look out.
*SPOILER*
By series end, we see a change in JW who steps out for himself at last.
@Viva
I’m considering the Bus Stop and Bus Rides as romantic dating, make up and break up places for GD and MS. Most of the time, some couple thing goes on near them/in them/around them.
You’ve mentioned some of these such as the running for the bus, the texting each other, etc.
You were asking about Joo Won and Yoo Jin. What I gather is the same as what you say. I believe part of the argument for JW’s father to take the fall was that it would save retrenching the workers under Cheongyoo. Later we will hear that MS and maybe it’s JW’s feelings of guilt… suggest that his father should never have killed himself if he was innocent. He should have fought to prove that he was not really to blame. It’s also seen at the end that there was nothing wrong with the architectural design. And yet the Mall collapsed. So there were other factors in play but an easy scapegoat was what was needed at that time.
Not only did YJ do the persuading of JW’s dad, she also left for studies or something overseas after that, so she effectively abandoned JW as well at the time his father died. He was never able to get past that to love her again.
Then there’s always the family issue. They are siblings by law, maybe registered under the same family, therefore marriage between them would be taboo. So JW never budged about dating YJ again.
I agree that Joo Won does not think of himself as a better person. He feels he’s not deserving of joy, because of what his father did. He’s become dull and more introverted, as will be revealed by the state of his home later.
I was laughing about the bad impression that GD keeps giving MS’s parents, especially her Dad. He sees GD as a thug, all beaten up, then with Yoo Jin, then with Ma Ri who links arms with him. No wonder he does not want MS to date him. But it’s great that Dad still trusts MS to know what’s good for her and does not try to prevent them from dating.
@Kate, I just commented but you already know I’m from the US. You UKers still have it over us. I’m thinking Call The Midwife(our doctor couple is so warm and romantic without going the hot route-caring for children can be a turn on-lol). I think you have lots of high quality romance. Even Brigid Jones (withe the Rene Zellweger controversy) was great with the Christmas jumpers and Marc Darcey saving Brugid’s dinner party.
We, in the US, haven’t done too well with romance in a long time. There is too much of an emphasis on hot sex. Initially it is erotic, but then after so much of it, it gets boring like what happens with fast foid-the first bites are yummy but then it all becomes bland or greasy. That’s why if you want flavor in fast food, go small….
@GB, You have inadvertently cleared up an issue that has peaked my curiosity. In a lot of these dramas, step siblings with zero blood relation cannot marry. Now I know it’s because of family registry in S. Korea. There, they are considered real siblings, thus a romantic relationship would be technically incest. OMG!
I am slowly watching The Second Husband and this has just become a part of the plot.
These cultural differences are fascinating. That’s why when Americans visit other countries, they commit a lot of faux pas…and we’re then called ugly! Learning local customs first would save us a lot of misunderstanding…
Hi All, I was just browsing and noticed a category here, that I’ve not looked at, called Smart Bitches. I was most edified to find that Gang Doo is mentioned as a possible candidate for Best Kdrama Boyfriend way back in 2018.
https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2018/01/10/smart-bitches-best-kdrama-boyfriend-of-the-week-bkb/
Yes, he would hands-down get my vote!!
Hi Everyone, I wrote my thoughts on EPISODES 8-9 some time back and am adding in between my thoughts on how good MS is for GD.
While my sympathies have often been more on GD’s side, as the child who was more badly off in terms of losing parents, stopping education, suffering bodily and mentally, and who still gave/gives so much to others, including to his girl, I’ve always liked this Show for depicting a heroine, MS, who is capable, who does not whine or feel sorry for herself, who looks for ways to give back. And what she gives is not just the usual drama sweet stuff like cooking a meal or being his date, but is the true to life support that GD needs.
*SPOILERS*
On GD’s and MS’S relationship trajectory. It took some effort but MS finally remembers GD. In Episodes 1-6, MS was able to get past her first negative impressions of GD to see the diamond in the rough.
Realising that he was the same person who’d shocked her into falling backwards, but who also kept her from falling down the stairs, MS decides to stick with GD to befriend him. Once he gets onto her radar, and they establish acquaintanceship, they reciprocate their care for each other and MS demonstrates an unflinching attitude of following GD through thick and thin.
Being not at all afraid of pursuing the guy (teenage MS was the same, she seems to have initiated texting her first love) she follows GD once from the work site and once all the way home. They’d had a relaxing afternoon on the rooftop. There she got to meet Sang Man, an important conduit to GD. Later we also see that she followed him to look for supplies.
Since we’ve reached the first peak of happiness, in an unofficial dating relationship, we expect the big drop from the height. That happens over MS hearing about the theft accusation targeted at GD’s father, that GD did not tell her about.
Show adroitly places JW, YJ, MS’s Mum or Dad smack in between GD and MS. Most of the time GD is bombarded with the message that JW likes MS and is a better catch for her, while MS’s parents do not approve of him. He also gets fired from work. These circumstances, and a series of missed chances to meet and talk things over with MS, leads GD to think that it’s better for MS to end up with JW, or at least, not with him, since he was in danger of ruining himself, and her, if she was with him.
A bus ride of note is when GD hears MS’s Mum wanting MS to date JW, and he takes the bus from MS’s area without seeing her. She pursues him onto the bus. They have what essentially is a lover’s fight, since the noble idiot, GD, wants to fob her off onto JW. LOL. (He should know by now that that small woman is a tough cookie)
The ‘fight’ continues at GD’s bus stop
They alight at his bus stop.
GD : “Why did you come all the way here? Go home.”
He walks away and she goes up to hit him.
MS : “You’re just leaving?”
GD : “Of course, what else?”
MS : “You should tell me to get home safely before leaving! That’s the least you could to.”
He says the required words and turns to go but she grabs his hand this time.
MS : “You said I don’t have to be sorry. But why are you acting cold towards me? Take me home. You always did. You want me to go home alone?” (I like a woman who does not act coy or mince her words.)
He looks like he’s struggling with himself. He removes his hand from her grasp.
GD : “Don’t stay out late. If something happens, go with CEO Seo. He’s capable, hard working, accomplished a lot. He’s a good person.”
MS : “Why are you bringing him up all of a sudden?”
GD : ” What I’m saying is don’t be like this here and go to him. That’s better for you…”
MS : “Who are you to tell me this. It’s my wish to go to whomever I please. Who are you to tell me where to go? Why are you deciding where my heart should be? I’ll go if I want to. I won’t go because you told me to. But I’m going now because I hate you.”
GD is affected by this but he does not go after MS, who walks away. He stares after her until she stops and turns, expecting that GD would come after her, but he walks off. MS shouts after his retreating back : “Hey Lee Gang Doo, then why did you hold my hand? Why did you stroke my hair? Why did you hug me? You said I was a nice person ” GD keeps walking away, looking like his heart is breaking.
MS sits alone at the bus stop, remembering how they’d sat holding hands at that same bus stop just 2 days previously. So the bus stop is not only a place of beginnings but a place of transition. MS had to stop and take a bus back. She had to pause in her pursuit of GD, to figure out what to do. Once she knew what to do, we will see that she would execute it quite directly. LOL.
====
Other good things MS did for GD.
In Episode 7, she defends GD against her Mum’s disapprobation.
She tells Mum that GD is someone she works with.
Mum : “Work? He looks like a hoodlum. What kind of work do you do with him?”
MS : “Why do you judge a person by his looks. He’s really hard working.” (MS herself had been suspicious of him at first because he looked like a thug.)
Mum : “Then work only. Don’t hang out together.”
MS : “Mum.”
Mum : “I don’t like him. … His eyes look weird too. As if there is a story behind them.”
MS : “Then how about me?”
Mum : “What about you?”
MS : “I have a story too. Then no one will want to hang out with me. I don’t know about others but we shouldn’t be saying such things.”
Mum is silenced.
MS inadvertently praises GD without even being aware of this. He comes to her office while Joo Won is sick and is amazed at JW’s crazy schedule.
GD in awe of JW’s schedule : “Jung Yoo Taek said the value of time differs for each person. He was right. The time I waste like trash, I wish I could share it with him.”
(GD seems to think that his time was not of much value, because of whom he is.)
MS begged to differ : “Who said your time is trash? How can it differ by the person? It differs by how you spend it.”
GD stares at her, with an appreciation of her more correct perspective. It would have been the kind of perspective that Halmeom had.
In Episode 8, MS follows GD on trips to find supplies to begin construction. He is dejected.
GD : “Why did you follow and struggle along with me? Go.”
MS : “I don’t want to. Let’s go together.”
GD : “This is pathetic. No support. No ability. I don’t have a good education and even my legs are giving me trouble. Even if I don’t have much, how could I have nothing, like this? There’s nothing I can do with my own ability.”
MS : “That’s not true. Even with all those things. There are many people who would ignore and don’t help out. You don’t know how great a guy you are.”
GD is affected by her acknowledgement of his effort and smiles. We see repeatedly that GD wants to look cool or dashing. MS did not know that she was stroking his much battered ego. Because she was not aware of it, it was a more profound word of praise.
*SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 9*
In Episode 9, MS can’t get GD to stop rejecting her. Halmeom gives her advice. Halmeom also shows her the blue tablets painkillers that GD takes quite often, and encourages her by telling her…
Halmeom :”He doesn’t ask for them anymore. Do you know when that started? Ever since he started going around with you.” In other words, Halmeom is saying that MS is good for GD, she has filled the gap that caused him mental/emotional pain, so that he did not need the painkillers much.
Also in Episode 9, GD finds out that MS had rebuked the Banker who had thrown aspersions against his father. She got him to apologise to GD. This she did while they were still at odds with each other, because they still had not been able to speak properly about what was bothering them.
EPISODES 8-10 on the OTP Relationship Trajectory
*SPOILERS*
Holding On and Running Away
After the impromptu date more or less engineered by Halmeom, GD and MS have entered the stage of hand-holding. They find that they’re dating eventhough no words are spoken about this.
The next day MS bothers to put on makeup to go to the site and everyone notices, except Mum. (Of course it has to happen that the only time she bothers to look extra nice, something unfortunate will happen.)
GD keeps looking at MS.
GD : “Something’s different.”
MS : “What?”
GD : “Do you look cuter?”
MS : “What are you saying? Did you bring the blueprint for the drain?” (She changes the subject because she’s flustered and embarrassed.)
GD : “It’s at the office.”
She walks off in the wrong direction. LOL and GD is amused.
GD is saying to MS as they enter the office : “You were blushing over nothing.”
However the mood changes when the Banker who’s there recognises GD. He accuses GD’s father of stealing rebars from the construction that contributed to the collapse of the Mall. (Later, JW totally debunks this theory)
MS defends GD’s father as the victim but the Banker insists that GD’s father is a murderer and the two men start to fight. The Banker, hits GD with a bag of cement that bursts open, covering all three of them in grey dust. MS chases after the Banker, who leaves, to understand what he is saying, and by the time GD comes out of the office, MS is in shock.
Covered in cement dust, somewhat similar to the state they had been in during the collapse, GD grabs onto MS’s arm as she walks away : “Don’t go. I’ll explain first.”
MS : “No. Not now. Next time. Let’s talk next time.” She tries to get her arm free but he holds on desperately.
GD : “Next time, when?”
She breaks free from his grasp and walks off.
(She sees that this was information that GD should have told her, but didn’t.) Emotionally, GD’s world caves in. He looks devastated, holding on to air where MS’s arm had been.
Later we see that MS regrets leaving GD. She recalls how he remained standing dejectedly when she turned around to look at him. Sadly her carefully made up face is covered in cement dust. It seems to be a parallel to the time when she’d applied lip colour in the Mall before the collapse!
Episode 9 – The next day GD goes to see the Banker who’s been demoted, to apologise. GD tells him that he too got fired.
The Banker also apologises. “I wasn’t mad at you but at the situation. .. Your friend also came to see me.”
GD hears that MS had accosted the Banker and insisted that he apologise to GD for taking out his anger on GD instead of on the people who were responsible.
Banker : “I’m jealous that you have such a friend like that, because it means that you, Lee Gang Doo are a great person.” GD fails to meet MS.
That night before they had their lovers’ quarrel, MS had addressed the issue.
MS : “I knew it wasn’t your fault. I should have taken your side. You did that for me. I’m sorry.”
GD : “What are you sorry about? My father did do wrong.”
MS : “That’s not what I meant
GD : “I shouldn’t have let you hear it from someone else. I should have been the first to tell you. I was cowardly. I guess I just wanted to pass over it. So you have nothing to be sorry about.” (I like that they are so clear in communicating.)
They fought and MS missed GD holding her hand.
MS : “You’re just leaving?”
GD : “Of course, what else?”
MS : “You should tell me to get home safely before leaving! That’s the least you could do.”
He says the required words and turns to go but she grabs his hand this time, to hold on to him. However he removes his hand from her grasp ultimately.
MS tells Halmeom : “I think he’s disappointed in me.”
Halmeom : “You really don’t get Gang Doo, do you? He’s not disappointed in you. He’s avoiding you because he thinks he’s not good enough. That’s how he is. He’s not good with feelings. He doesn’t know how to take care of himself. He’s afraid he’ll hurt you, so he won’t open up. His distancing himself from you is how much he treasures you.”
MS assures Halmeom that her life won’t be easily ruined by GD. Halmeom : “Right? Hurry up and go. Don’t let him be hurting all alone.”
This is easier said than done since GD has literally run away and on a fishing boat.
Episode 10 – MS has recovered some of her memories through which she realises that GD was with her in the collapsed mall. She sits dejectedly with Wan Jin
WJ : “Let’s go over this one more time. Your memory came back after ten years, and Gang Doo was in your memory. That’s it. You don’t remember anything else?”
MS : “Just sporadically. But I think I am certain that I saw Gang Doo there.”
WJ : “Then don’t be like this here. Go and ask him.”
MS : “It’s because I can’t meet him now.”
…
WJ : “It’s all about timing. Seeing how you two keep on missing each other, isn’t that a sign you shouldn’t meet in the future?”
MS : “Unnie!”
WJ : “The person who is by your side when you’re feeling desperate is the real deal. Think about it.”
This gives MS an idea.
MS : “I think you’re right.” …”I think I am anxious now because I can’t stay by GD’s side. Right. That was it.” MS runs out with fresh purpose.
When Halmeom’s illness brings GD running back, MS returns to sticking by GD’s side as much as she can. When GD leaves Halmeom’s shop, MS is outside waiting. He steels himself to bypass her, but she follows him doggedly until he enters the Motel.
At the Motel, when he thinks MS has left, he finds that he misses her. He weeps bitterly in the shower over Halmeom and MS. However he finds MS on the rooftop, sticking by his side. WJ had meant that she should see who stuck by her, but MS applied it the other way around to be the one who’d stick by GD. Although he remains cold towards her, she has the sense that he is far from indifferent and catches him watching her from the roof when she leaves.
She keeps at it, the next morning. He smiles when he sees her, forgetting to be cold at first. She follows him and applies bandaids on his hand, before going to work. She comes to wait for him in the Motel after work and promises : “I’ll be back tomorrow. I’ll come tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that. I’ll keep coming until I don’t like you.” MS runs off embarrassed.
GD looks after her with uplifted spirits. He has a little crooked smile on as he stares after MS. He realises that she’s holding on to him without even holding on to his arm. She is choosing him over JW.
@GB, This drama covers a lot of “sins of the fathers”. We have GB’s Dad, our young architect’s Dad and MS’ making himself absent Dad. The first two Dad’s are really innocent but their so-called misdeeds have influenced the course of life that their sons have taken. MS’Dad has absented himself and, in a way, just adds to MS’ survivor’s guilt, as she was her mother x-s least favored child. Her Dad’s silence in the matter did not help her. He also was physically not there because of work dutpring her childhood. But father-son relationships and father-daughter relationships are also different, especially when the daughter enters puberty. Our chaebol exec. Also has her own father problem, that hurt her relationship with young architect. This theme is also one that rears its head over and over.
There are also good mother substitutes like MJ’s aunt, GB’-s landlady who nourishes him through food, emotional support and his “brother”. GB also has halmoeni and Mari(who is a sister/mom). But it’s the Dad’s that have the most impact in terms of emotion for the guys. But it is MS’ mom who has the most negative impact on her.
Fulfilling his promise. Junho is so cute! 🥰
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZf0O2HKV0a/?utm_medium=copy_link
Thanks @agdr03! That was cute and funny!! It looked so out of place and yet so endearing. JunHo looked a bit embarrased. I wish we were given more of the celebrity audience reactions LOL.
@OAL, Yes… that seems to be another theme that emerges over and over again. The role of the parents (whether true or false) and/or their handling of the aftermath of the tragedy, has profound impact on their offspring. What a complicated situation it became when we have 4 families, (which gave us) 7 of the younger generation, who interact to determine the future. A very interesting study.
@GB that GD wants to appear dashing. So cute. So many things about the way he shows up as a person warm your heart in this drama. He’s a young man in the end who wants to do what young men want to do.
The well-known actor (name escapes me) who played his younger self is just off to the military, btw. I thought he performed beautifully and gave us a sense of the youthful hope and tenderness of GD underneath some of the bad boy bravado of present-day GD.
@OAL… funeral of family friend yesterday – lovely occasion – and what should come up in conversation over dinner but Call the Midwife! The woman I was talking is such a fan. I have never seen it but clearly must go and watch a couple of episodes.
Agreed – there are still series and films which subtly depict the growth and movement of love!
@agdr03 … just watched Junho in action. Yes very cute and I enjoyed his shy smiles! Thank you for the link.
@GB.. great depiction of our ‘frozen’ second male lead. He carries so much trapped within him and at the same time you see sparks of potential for him to be released from the place of stuckness.
His flat was a surprise and such a clever way to show us the difference between the smooth exterior and the reality. Clever writing.
You’re welcome @GB and @Kate ☺️
I feel as much as his embarrassment is evident he still did a great job. 🙌🏻😂 and yes those little smiles. 🥰
I think the actors in the audience were amazed too. ☺️
I haven’t seen the whole radio star episode but I saw a video where they were watching the scene of DI dying and when they reunited in the afterlife and Junho, LSY and his eunuch were crying. It was a very sad scene.
agdr03… ooh I’d love to see that video. If you get a moment can you drop us a link please? Only if you get a moment.
No worries. I’ll look for it @Kate ☺️
@Kate, I couldn’t find the one that I saw but this one is the video except the beginning of the scene that they’re watching was the one with DI dying.
Credit to the owner! Thank you.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZZqRwCpz9E/?utm_medium=copy_link
@Kate, Sorry you had to hear about Call The Midwife after going to a funeral. Call The Midwife is a period series, post WWII, I think in London’s East End, centering on Nonatus House and a group of religious and civilian midwife’s so every week there are births, complications and the lives of the sisters/midwife’s. For example Judy Parfitt plays an older sister on the cusp of dimentia. There are . There are topical subjects like mental retardation, new immigration and poverty. It is worth watching.i actually liked the earlier shows better.
@Kate,He’s doing a Livestream on YouTube now. He’s doing a Q and A. He has cat hair on his hoodie. I guess he wore lipstick for this. It”s a little off putting. I think given the reaction to The Red Sleeve, his agency probably wanted him to do this as fan service. I think this type of thing is more prevalent with idol actors. I didn’t watch long because I like the illusions better. There was a level of discomfort that wasn’t a great look. But these actors/idols are also owned by their agencies, so it seems. Their lives are not their own.
@OAL… I have it on now. Thank you! I wish I had Korean. He looks great in a hoodie!
@agdr03… thank you — so good to see the actors responding in that heartfelt way.
@OAL… agreed… watched for a while and then wondered exactly what it was we were doing? Is an idol at this point almost the contemporary equivalent of a male gisaeng? It is a bit feminising for me of the man. If the star wants to do this – fine- Jungkook spent three hours with his fans on his birthday and seemed to relish it… not sure I like this star in a fish bowl situation.
@Kate, He looks great in a Hoodia. The South Koreans feminized all of their idols and actors in photos hoots. They pose them in come hither poses wearing jewelry. And the hair and make up are extreme. I guess it’s a cultural norm and also plays into some of the fashionistas. I think they call the eye makeup, guyliner(lol). And it also plays into the S Korean skincare/ beauty/plastic surgery industry. It’s a source of a lot of money. If these actors get endorsements they make much money for themselves and their agencies. It also a young man’s game. Have you noticed that it’s okay for these actors to marry when they hit 40. Before that it seems like they want to keep the single fantasy going, except when they are shipping a celebrity couple like the Park Shin Hye wedding. Oh well.
@OAL…yes and indeed…they do find themselves in a strange world … I wonder what it is like afterwards… Whether they crave the privacy and freedom and are delighted or whether this strange world has left too much of its mark on them.
@GB Have been catching up with and enjoying your commentary on impromptu dates and sweetness etc etc So good!
Re your Feb 1 comment re Smart Bitches boyfriends… I so agree. GD would get my vote too. I think I took his character to heart more even than Yi San’s.
Hi all,
If there was ever a discussion of whose romantic relationship you would like? A variation on the boyfriend awards… I really think that MS and GD have something enviable but would of course not want to have gone through their respective trajectories to get there!
@Kate, the love relationships that warmed my heart and got me starry eyed:
Yes, JBL with GD and MS
Flower of Evil: Baek Hee Sung and Cha Ji Won (great dad too!)
Healer: Jung Hoo and Yeong Shin
Happiness: Yi Hyun and Sae Bom
You Are My Glory: Yu Tu and Jing Jing (for making the long distance relationship work)
One thing the kdramas had in common was that both partners contributed to the saving and the support of the other. Of course the husbands were also wonderful in housework/childcare etc LOL.
@Kate Yes I felt there is a certain commitment of being an idol. Like there are royal duties, I felt there are “idol duties”. Fan services are expected. I imagine no one likes it but maybe they understand the price to pay and go with the “market expectations”. Or the agency expectations in order to survive in the highly competitive idol market. May be because they love and passionate about performing on the stage so much. I read an old post that Junho once asked fans not to disturb his family but came to terms about his photos being taken.
https://www.koreaboo.com/news/2pm-junho-sasaeng-harass-family-breaking-point/
I followed JLML718 on Instagram and saw she translated the live stream. I noticed JH was wearing clothes of the brand he endorses. Perhaps this was a soft promotion for the brand?
I do wonder if this is a supply/demand thing in certain markets? In where I am (New Zealand), our population is small and I felt people are relaxed around the celebrities. I once saw Dan Carter (Golden boy of our All Black rugby team, retired) walked past in CBD and no one paid much attention to him. Bumped into a few Shortland Street (our local soap opera) actors in airport or supermarket and no one did much around them. No selfie request, no taking photo, not following them around. Highly unlikely a demand for a live stream here 😀
The last UK show I watched was Downton Abbey. The last US productions are the Marvel stuffs. Other than that, I divert my time to K dramas! Love the emotional depiction so much.
Agree with you all. I voted GD as the ideal boyfriend.
I also voted
For realistic romance I like:
Happiness: YH and SB
JBL: GD and MS
For swoony, unrealistic but very memorable romance:
Crash Landing on You: Seri and Jeong-hyeok
Strong Girl Bong Soon – Do Bong-soon, Ahn Min-hyuk
W: Two world- Kang Chul, Oh Yeon-joo
OK, back to doing my JBL rewatch so I can catch up on your analysis.
Thanks for the link @Viva. I didn’t know Junho had sasaeng fans who persecuted his family. I don’t understand the mentality, especially if they claim to like Junho himself.
I’m now divided between watching figure skating and trying to keep up with my kdramas. LOL.
@GB… enjoy the figure skating – no pressure!
@GB and @Viva Romances I like – too many of course to remember:
GD-MS for the real world but tender romance.
Challenging but compelling:
both Something in the Rain and One Spring Night
Swoony or cute romances:
Go Go Squid (charming and lovely the way they both developed through this – mostly him actually)
Her Private Life
Suspicious Partner
My love from another star
Secret Garden (for the quality of love he developed for her)
Revolutionary Love – comedy but transformative and he is persistent
@Viva – thank you for very helpful insights into the world the idol inhabits and how interesting that the NZ experience is so different…
What the Korean Idol culture represents to young Koreans in a country only recently emerging from poverty… their president talked at the UN about Korea’s journey from poverty 50 years ago etc…
Junho talking about JBL and his approach to the role: http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180110000695
Thank you @Kate for the link to the article. I recall hearing of it before, ie that he kept to himself for great lengths of time, to try to simulate something of being trapped alone for days.
I really like what he says about the word ‘Just,’ which is more or less ‘geunyang’ in Korean, although I believe there’s more to the word ‘guenyang’ than that.
Junho says:
I recalled this best when he was asked about why he loves MS. He said…’geunyang’ / no reason.
It’s a healthy way to look at the unfortunate situation. It’s life so stop asking ‘why’ and just get on with living.
@GB – so in the end is this drama is about acceptance – as the route to or en route to new hope?
I was just re-watching the Episode 8 conversation between Grandma – our unusual sage – and GD when she was explaining that she realised that there would never be a point in life (after the death of her husband) when everything gets better. So her approach is acceptance of what is. Healthy realism. At the same time she encourages GD to be hopeful of and look for new happiness. It is false hope or denial that keep us stuck and unhappy.
Certainly the writer is contrasting acceptance with a number of other approaches — there is a nod to the one expression of Christianity, for instance, where MS is accosted by a well-meaning street evangelist who doesn’t take time to find out about MS’s history and encourages her to pray about her suffering. Of course, prayer and faith don’t have to be at the expense of acceptance and inhabiting reality…but bad versions of faith are what the writer seems to be critiquing here … faith as denial of the human condition etc
@Viva and @GB, I think S.Korean and Asian idols in general have very little personal freedom.They are recruited young, placed
in dormitities away from their families and have their lives regimented in most ways down to what they eat, what they wear, how they look. Aslooks go, how much make up is good for the young boys. Has a guy like Jimin or Are had plastic surgery to feminize their features. As to the girls and boys, how many do you think have eating disorders? Think of this as a brutal contractual relationship where the talent relinquishes their lives. That’s why you see suicide slot. Think Sulli. And I haven’t even mentioned the long hard hours of work. The fact that some end up as fine actors is testament to their inner fortitude. I don’t envy them.
Having read the comments in places like Soompi, I find the fandoms super entitled and disrespectful. They are also conditioned to expect fan service. To me, the more be rabid fans don’t have lives and may have psychological problems. As a teen, I fantasized about my favorite movie stars but did not have Beatlemania. However I did stake out the apartment building of my favorite soap star and might have been called a stalker had I done it more than once
As I live in New York City, it is not thought of as cool to bother celebrities. I have ridden the subways with stars, given them a passing nod,and left them undisturbed. I’ll bregularly went to o the same Korean deli with John F. Kennedy Jr. Who was in tall and handsome men we be stood next to be each in other at the salad bar. Nobody bothered him. And a big tradition here, because we have so many live theaters, is to wait at the stage door after performances to get autographs on playbills. I have quite a few including Diana Rigg’s. But that is expected.
There is a thrill to seeing celebrities. My high school English teacher actually brought a prominent soap opera actor friend to class to perform Shakespeare.Most of the girls like me were walking on cloud nine after. But, where I live one learns to be polite about celebrities.
I guess that if you live in Seoul or places like Tokyo the same thing applies. And Thanks to Peter Jackson, New Zealand is a movie production haven. I also think Taika Watiti.
But fandoms do get toxic. It is at least of some BB good,both as t in S.Korea the agencies take serious legal action down to figuring out who the poisoner’s are using technology to be root them out. But to my mind, for the idols, especially, more should be done to counter the lousy and unnatural working conditions they live under from very young ages with the promise of great rewards that only come to a few. These people pay a big price. I don’t envy them.
#Kate, Loved Revolutionary Love with idol Siwon and liked him much more to han Park Seo Joon in She Was Pretty-one of my favs because at the end she went back to her curly hair and skin and lived her cute look alike daughter. And her husband lived her for herself and not the superficial. And Siwon was the most interesting Second male lead. What is interesting about his looks is that he has a normally heavy beard that is not often seen in K Dramas that are not sageuks. He may be given more leeway because he is also a chaebol. Nevertheless it would be nice to see him in more.
Again, so much of this drama is about the trauma if survivor guilt. Why me. The afteraffects of this type of sudden death that nobody is prepared for. You see this in the broad horror of attacks like those on 9/11 or car accidents. The big events like airplane crashes and bombings have more universal impact. Anniversaries are commemorated, monuments are built. In this drama we see the personal and how different people have different coping mechanisms all very destructive. And we also see how time is not so healing. I think Junho immersed himself in the character.Actors talk about their process and given the time they spend on these characters it is a wonder that some can remain sane. That’s why I think so many need time after a shoot to decompress before they take on new roles. Some actors like Lee Joon ki who taken these intense psychological roles must need to find outlets to normalcy after completing these. We take for granted that these roles are just a days work for these performers but for many they take a toll on their mental health.
@OAL – salutary reflections on celebrity in different cultures. I can imagine the convention of cool apparent indifference in a coffee queue in NY… it would be the same in London. It is not the done thing to make fuss of a celebrity… I was once on the tube with my head almost in the armpit of a well-known actress at the time because the tube was so crowded and we made nothing of it! JFK junior more of a deal of course! I am a BTS fan without being Army… and so glad they have good relationships with one another but also concerned at the level of control there is over their public moves/looks/dating etc We will know one day what it is really like. I hope despite this they are as happy and together as they appear in many of their videos.
@OAL…so glad you liked Idol Siwon in Revolutionary Love… I chanced upon it on Netflix… didn’t see it when it came out. Was new to K dramas in 2017… started with the C drama Meteor Garden (what on earth was this?) in Feb of that year and made my way in via Boys over Flowers (what am I watching and why am I hooked etc?). Siwon’s character is twinkly and adorable and I think I would get on with him marvelously in real life!
@OAL… yes… thank you that makes sense …survivor guilt as the prism for watching this show.
Hi @Kate, I am old so I tend to repeat myself but for this drama repetition is good. And the survivor’s are also the friends, families and other loved ones they unintentionally left behind. Again, one of the most inspiring parts of this drama is that it treats so many survivor’s, both for the main characters and other victims with such care. As you would say in the UK, brilliant!
@Kate, I like BTS too but I’m not an Army either. I think their agency is doing well by them. Right now, they seem to be getting a lot of time off. Given the work they put in, they need to give them a lot more. The money they bring in is amazing. One of my favorite dramas that deals with agency matters is The Greatest Love with my favorite Gong Hyo Jin and Cha Seung Won. I love the way they cover agencies comedically. This is bog business in South Korea and also m has political implications. BTS actually appeared at the United Nations with a speech to the General Assembly.
Given all of this, I hope that the talent is treated well.
@AOL – thank you for the recommendation – I’ll check out The Greatest Love.
@Kate, your comment on Acceptance being a theme of this Show, reminded me of the words of wisdom spoken by Halmeom and others.
Halmeom and Gang Doo and Halmeom’s Advice
There’s an inside joke that the two times Halmeom praises Gang Doo as being a responsible boy who pays his dues, he’s shown doing the opposite!
FLASHBACK – Halmeom speaks to Ma Ri about why she give GD special treatment ie MR is unhappy that he’s treated better than her who has known Halmeom longer. She calls her Mamma.
Episode 5
Halmeom was a loan shark and a young GD had insisted on getting a loan for his mum’s hospital bills. He asked for 100 million won. He told them point blank that he could not pay them back.
GD : “Since I’ve hurt my leg, I can’t earn any money now.”
H to MR : “He said he won’t die while owing someone money. He paid his interest on time too.”
MR is shocked : “That’s it?”
H : “Do you know what everyone says when they come to borrow money? I will surely pay back. Those that talk big always lead to the opposite outcome.”
She was tired of being a loan shark : “I thought he would do as my last customer.”…”He looked like he was about to die but he was kicking and screaming so he would not die, isn’t that commendable? Look at that punk, struggling and holding onto it for more than 10 years, alone. Of course he’s commendable.”
The commendable boy was at that moment kicking a drink dispensing machine. He managed to get 2 cans out of it. He didn’t pay back the machine!!
Episode 6
MS is waiting for Halmeom at the hospital. She finally sees Halmeom coming out and they eat peaches together, or rather Halmeom wants only the syrup. Halmeom wants to pay the debt by introducing MS to GD.
She speaks of Gang Doo with great pride, as if he’s her own son.
She says of GD “Even though he looks not all together, he has a great sense of responsibility. … I guarantee him. I don’t normally guarantee anyone like this. But he’s thoughtful, can take care of himself. I’d be proud of him anywhere.”
And the responsible boy whom she’s proud of is kicking another drink dispensing machine, trying to get a drink without putting in coins LOL.
Halmeom’s Advice
@Kate I’ve tried to bring together advice mostly from Halmeom, but also from a couple others. Yes, there is an undercurrent of knowing when life has to be accepted instead of wasting one’s time struggling needlessly. However there’s also advice to know when to wait, and when to act.
Episode 8 – Advice On Accepting That There are Painful Things in Life
GD : “I don’t remember. The good times in my childhood. I don’t remember. I only remember all the sucky things.”
Halmeom : “Gang Doo-ya, it’s been over 40 years since my husband died. I lived waiting to forget everything, hoping things would get better. And do you know what I realised? Such a day won’t come. What you can’t force, just let it be. Don’t try too hard. Being sad and in pain…those things are always with us. We have to accept that, what else can we do?
GD : ‘It’s not fair.”
H : “Instead, you can meet someone better and live a fun life. You can do that. Don’t worry.”
GD : “What the heck? Are you going to become a fortune teller now?”
H : “Why can’t I? When you’re as old as me, you’re halfway to becoming a fortune teller.” (She is saying that we know a lot more from experience.)
*SPOILERS*
Episode 9
Halmeom gives Moon Soo Advice
“You really don’t get Gang Doo, do you? He’s not disappointed in you. He’s avoiding you because he thinks he’s not good enough. That’s how he is. He’s not good with feelings. He doesn’t know how to take care of himself. He’s afraid he’ll hurt you, so he won’t open up. His distancing himself from you is how much he treasures you.”
MS assures Halmeom that her life won’t be easily ruined by GD.
Halmeom : “Right? Hurry up and go. Don’t let him be hurting all alone.”
This is advice that MS takes to heart.
*SPOILERS*
Episode 10
More of Halmeom’s Advice to Moon Soo
Halmeom comes to MS’s Bathhouse.
H : “Did GD leave on a ship? That dork. He does whatever he can do to abuse his body.” (It’s to keep his thoughts at bay.) “Did you see him before he left.?”
MS : “I was too late.”
H : “It happens. For you to be so downcast over that, you’re way too young. (Once again Halmeom speaks from experience. Instead of being impatient, age advises that it’s okay to wait.)
MS : “Did you know that GD and I were in the accident together?”
H : “What’s the use of bringing up the past?”
MS :”I didn’t know. Like a dummy. Whether it’s truly that I can’t remember or if I’m trying to be at peace alone, I don’t know myself.”
H : “Why is that your fault? You got hurt. That was a terrible accident.”
MS : “I just feel like I’m doing something wrong.”
H : “A squirrel has two acorns. He puts one in his own mouth. And he saves the other one for the wintertime by burying it. You know what? He works so hard for it, and being dumb, he can’t eat it because he can’t find it. He forgets about it.”
MS : “What a waste.”
H : “It’s a waste. But rather than being wasteful for a moment, the acorn that was buried underground in the winter, grows leaves, becomes a tree, then makes a forest. Aren’t we grateful for that?”
H : “If it’s too hard for you, it’s one way to forget everything and bury it. How would you know how it would turn out later? In life, it could be a blessing in disguise. You know?”
Halmeom wants MS to know it’s okay to forget. Not having the bitterness of some memories would enable her to be so much more open and giving. We see later, that this become somewhat prophetic.
@Kate
You wrote:
In Episode 10
A Christian do-gooder/evangelist hands MS a leaflet and invites her to a prayer retreat centre. She offers help to those suffering, saying God only gives the amount of suffering one is able to bear. However the timing is tough for both evangelist and MS, since MS has just found out that GD had been suffering alone for years from Sang Man’s mum, and remembered that he spoken of victims being also among the survivors who still suffered.
MS breaks in :
“How about the suffering I am not able to bear? … ”
“How about those who are miserable all their lives because they are not able to overcome it?” (MS is probably thinking not only of GD, but also of her parents.)
“Those who already died because they weren’t able to bear it, what will God do for them?” (MS is thinking of the mum who died waiting for her son)
She returns the leaflet and chooses not to believe in God.
Your point reminded me of this comment by @Tom:
“The “tombstone-esque” version of memorials—as an obelisk for relatives of victim’s to attach meaning to—here is a way for society to hide its sins. In Sth. Korea’s collective society the plaque becomes a totem to define whether you are in or out of the group. For those not tied to the group this cleaving by difference leads to the event effectively becoming ignored (not my group issue) or is only used to give kudos to their own acts. Victim’s families are essentially abandoned. It’s not just that they are left to their debilitating (life affected) traumas alone — Sth. Korean society actively stigmatizes them. This is so strongly embedded that even their own families stigmatize them both overtly and by inference.
The drama has consistently explored the dynamic between the affects of life affecting trauma and Sth. Korean codified grief/contrition. In each case the act of formal grief was also used to control others reactions…the more institutional the contrition the more overtly overlaid with social manipulation. Hence, I suspect this is why the writer has used a solitary woman who wanders the lonely streets rather than a more formal image of religion for this scene.
The woman’s act of evangelizing was both a statement that: clichéd condolences seldom help people in real trauma…they are a way of easing the wider society; and at the same time there are a very few who continue to offer something…regardless if the offer is taken up. The poor woman is so at odds with the society’s years of abandonment that she is tilting at windmills.
For me, there is both an empty sorrow and sensitivity in the scene. Regardless of anyone’s belief, she was there to offer what she believed was comfort. In stark contrast to society’s attention/concern, this offer had not disappeared and it was important that the offer was renewed by an ordinary person.
For me, the fact that she did not force her beliefs and instead let Moon-Soo express her pain is the element that gave this woman an air of genuineness in her offer of spiritual comfort. As others have noted, there are those who would seek to take advantage of the emotionally traumatized. If that were the case she would have moved to manipulate Moon-Soo’s raw reaction as a way of pushing her beliefs. Instead I suspect she realized Moon-Soo’s wound is so raw at present that further engagement may only exacerbate her pain—the offer was made, she has left her small light, and one day Moon-Soo may find it if she needs it.
If that is the case, then apart from the scenes between the relatives of victims, sadly this is the most caring act in the drama by a member of the public…”
In rare instances, this drama brings up faith in a God, the existence of blessings and miracles. The only overt reference to finding solace in prayer and in a Christian God is mentioned by this street evangelist. We also have the case where MS questions the reasoning of a Christian God that allows unfair suffering, but that comes later in the series.
That a street evangelist appears at all in this Show is a comment on how victims, families of victims, and suffering survivors are helped or not. I do not know, but I hope that there is better organised care for them, although, again, it’s not clear who can avail themselves of it.
@GB – just reading your very thought-provoking and rich response to my comment.
In the light of what you describe our street evangelist is both ’tilting at windmills’ and expressing compassion – albeit imperfectly – that is unavailable at institutional level and in society as a whole – with the stigmatising you describe. That is another level at which to understand the level of being ostracised experienced by victims of a disaster. The lepers – outside of the camp.
I wasn’t going to push this but it has occurred to me – and no desire to give offence here – and you have strengthened this impression that in some ways Grandma H and those who are ‘outside’ are being depicted in some strange way like a contemporary band of disciples with their inspired leader. I was reminded on one episode of the last supper. True church. True humanity.
‘God never gives you suffering you cannot bear’… as a believer in God myself … I think that is something of a well-worn trope and tends to put the sufferer under pressure to cope better than they are. So although our street evangelist meant well — sitting with and listening to MS would have been the better route. Nevertheless, I do like the way you redeem our street evangelists attempts to reach out to someone with compassion.
This series is the gift that keeps in giving!
@GB your Feb 1 comments on how good MS is to GD… the break up over his father’s rumoured behaviour in the run up to the disaster. You captured that so well and it brought back the pain of watching those bruising events.
Noble idiocy of GD coupled with his fatalistic, survivor guilt sense that happiness is not his to grasp.
Leaping ahead, I repeat watched MS rushing to the dock to see GD jumping on board the fishing vessel and it disappearing out to sea.
I was immersed in this process as a viewer – identifying with MS especially.
@GB Halmeom’s Advice. Thank you so much for this.
Caught up in the grief of the GD/MS break-up, I especially loved her insight that GD loved MS – ‘His distancing himself from you is how much he treasures you.’
Heartbreaking and lovely at the same time!
And the timely squirrel and the acorn image! Loved it. Halmeom not only reflects she also acts as a type of wise woman of Greek myth and her insights – when taken to heart – create new possibilities for hopeful action.
My Dear Kate, I take no credit for the comment in inverted commas, about the evangelist. They are the profound thoughts of @Tom, who first propounded them, and with which I agree.
Your comment brings up something that’s also been the counterpoint of the commentary that this Show makes about the failure of official, organised society to take care of its own in tragedy. In the end, the poor, the discriminated against and the marginalised get on somehow, not thanks to any help from authorities, but because they help themselves and each other.
We see that GD’s sister, Jae Young, looks askance at the illegal ‘clinic’ of Halmeom, and that she derides Halmeom as a mere loan shark. Halmeom and GD are on the outskirts of society, but they are the ones who have put her through med school and who are attending to the sick, who cannot afford insurance for healthcare.
As for the saying that God does not give us suffering we cannot bear, I take it positively, that we are stronger than we think we are, and that when we carry our part of the burden, the rest is carried along with us by others and God Himself. Oftentimes, as even in this lovely drama, we see that help comes along unexpectedly. Wan Jin gets an assistant who used to be her critic to do the heavy lifting, MS and GD find themselves several times in position to help each other and even nasty ex-bosses step up to give advice or a helpful push.
I do agree that the evangelist didn’t know how to go about it the right way. She had her task to complete, to hand out her leaflets, forgetting to look instead at what needs she might meet, by being present to a lost ‘sheep’. 🙂
@Kate,
I find Halmeom’s rough and ready advice quite a treasure. There are a couple more instances of her advice, but I’m saving them for later, when they no longer constitute spoilers.
Her insights are the tough, no nonsense views, supported by her consistent, tough love, that can galvanise a stubborn boy to re-think his interpretations. While deprecating his ignorance, she at the same time upholds his abilities and trusts him to take care of himself.
I really liked that she took the trouble to seek Moon Soo out. She guessed that MS was dejected at GD’s disappearance, I imagine, and she wanted to see where the girl she’d recommended to her ‘boy’ came from. MS’s Mum also had a sense that Halmeom was preparing for something in wanting to have her hair done, as if preparing to say farewell.
She may have sensed that her time was near, and wanted to give MS more words of hope while waiting for GD to reappear. In the end, it was her needing medical help that brought GD back. 🙂
@Kate and @GB, I hate that expression and all its implications. It imposes an undue burden on people who are aggrieved. The same can be said when it is used to “help” caregivers, who are exhausted mentally and physically, who would prefer an hour or two of respite to do the mundane things like I e taking a nap, a shower b or eating a meal without interruption. I also believe that the act of listening without making judgment also is helpful. As you say so well this drama does keep on giving. I know about how media is used in training sessions. Halmoeni’s advice and various scenes could be so useful in trying grief counselors. As we see here they are jumping off places for serious discussion and helpful in showing us what to do and not to do.
@OAL – agreed on all points.
All, I am going to resume from ep 9 since some of you are there or thereabouts and @GB is there with some of her reflections and recaps. I’ll give eps 9 to the end a good re-watch next week. This weekend I went backwards and watched earlier eps again! It is a rare show that I can re-watch so often and so fruitfully!
@GB – thank you for the collected sayings of Halmeom. Great to have them and be able to back reference them if needed too.
I liked it too when she said to someone that GD no longer owed her any money because of the way he had lived his life. Profound! The debt he paid to her and the reason she agreed to lend him money… quite counter cultural in the hard-nosed world of loan sharks.
Episodes 9-12
Thoughts on Moon Soo’s Sixth Sense
*SPOILERS*
In Ep 9 – We could probably guess that after the sweet dating, hand-holding and long goodbyes, that something was bound to go wrong for our OTP.
Show effectively keeps them apart, but not because they can’t meet, it’s because of hesitation by both GD and MS, but more on GD’s part, because a series of things he hears conspires to erode his confidence, starting with JW’s showing interest in MS, YJ’s praise of JW as great boyfriend material, and MS’s dad’s and mum’s disapprobation of GD which he overheard. So although he could have met Moon Soo a couple of times, he walked away instead.
At this time, something interesting develops in Moon Soo, she seems to have a sixth sense where GD is concerned. It’s a very strange sixth sense because she never had it before and after a time, she never has it again!!! LOL.
When MS is speaking to her Mum outside their bathhouse, she senses that GD is nearby. She manages to catch him on the bus much to his surprise. That meeting didn’t work out however, and GD gets away on a boat, but MS doesn’t give up.
When GD is back on land, MS is waiting for him in all the right places and at the right times. Much against his own plan to let MS go, GD finds himself looking forward to meeting her somehow each day.
MS can tell that GD was watching her leave the motel where he lives from the rooftop. He’d hidden himself when she turned around to look but she knew he was watching her. She said to herself : “He got caught anyhow.”
In Ep 11 – Even when he pretended to have a meeting with YJ so that he could escape Moon Soo’s close proximity in the office, MS knew that nothing was going on between him and YJ. She was not bothered by that at all. She saw that his eyes were not ‘smiling’ when they looked at YJ.
In her meeting with Wan Jin at MS’s father’s noodle shop, WJ asks if MS is busy dating.
WJ : “What about it? Gang Doo must feel so lonely. This is the time you two should be dating. If you can’t because of this and that, those are just excuses. Just date him.”
MS shows her wisdom : “Not yet.”
WJ : “Why not? You’re the one who said you want to stay by GD’s side, have you forgotten?”
MS : “It’s still true but I will bear it. If he’s with me, GD will continue to pretend he’s alright. He should mourn now. That way he will be comforted later. We weren’t able to do that. Because we were angry and apologetic toward each other.”
(This is terribly insightful of a girl who as a teenager, had been neglected by her parents. She has come to terms with this and speaks of it in a matter of fact way, never blaming anyone.)
MS’s dad seems to have been listening. He looks conscious, probably aware of how he and Mum had failed to grieve in a healthy way.
When GD is bereft at the loss of Halmeom, MS constantly sends food to him through Sang Man. GD still tries to reject her by returning the food. He thinks he has missed the bus (literally) with her in it, but MS seems to know (sixth sense again!) that he was looking for her and turns up suddenly behind him. That must mean that she deliberately missed her bus in order to meet him. Unfortunately, he just dumps the food on her and runs away.
In Ep 11-12 Halmeom’s friends have an impromptu party at her shop, in her memory. After this, Moon Soo leaves and has almost reached home, but her sixth sense gets her to return to the shop. Perhaps she remembered Halmeom telling her: “Don’t let him (GD) be hurting all alone.” Her decision to return and to stay with him, helped him rebound from depression to a good start into healing from grief overnight.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the last we see of MS’s sixth sense!!! It only kicked in when GD was ‘running away’ from her.
Note: So again we see the bus or bus-stop as places of transition in our OTP’s romance. It’s good that GD missed only the bus, and that MS ensured he never entirely missed her.
I held back the next few posts I gathered on Halmeom’s Advice, because of spoilers. Now that we’ve more or less moved into Episodes 10-12, I’m posting them.
Advice on Time and Tide
*SPOILERS*
Episode 10
GD is on the boat, lying down outside at night. The experienced fisherman colleague tells him that in the ocean, the wind is scarier than rain at keeping fish away. Upon seeing the waves, he says that there would be lots of wind. The fisherman’s advice: “Whether for people or fish, there’s this thing called a tide. If you miss the tide, you don’t know when you’ll see it again. I don’t think it’s the right time this time around.”
Gang Doo remembered this advice later when he finds out that Halmeom was terminally ill. The fisherman’s words also can refer to the time being the wrong time for Gang Doo to be running away. The winds of change are taking place, Halmeom’s illness has become serious and he’s left Moon Soo waiting for days. He will later decide to ‘catch the tide’ to head home earlier. It was probably just as well he did, because within the next 4 days or so, he’d have lost his chance to see Halmeom.
*SPOILERS*
Episode 11 – Advice on Being Unafraid to Make Mistakes/Have Regrets or not regretting our regrets!
When Halmeom gets admitted to hospital, everyone comes and it becomes a party. Even Jae Young stops by to see Halmeom in her doctor capacity.
Watching his friends, GD remembers a conversation with Halmeom.
[Halmeom once said : ‘Living is a repetition of regrets and failures.’
GD (I) sarcastically asked : ‘Then what’s the point of living?’
Halmeom : ‘It’s to make even better regrets and mistakes. So don’t be a scaredy-cat.’]
GD smiles through his tears as he thinks of Halmeom’s advice. She lived what she preached, because she was afraid of the operation, but she went to the hospital anyway.
Episode 11 – Advice on Not Taking Advice LOL – on Having Confidence
GD has trouble grieving. He’s been keeping to himself, unable to smile or eat well. He goes to Halmeom’s shop and recalls that last morning when she’d waited for him to bring her to the hospital. She was drinking Coke, something not good for her, as usual.
GD : “Are you scared?”
H : “Of course, I’m scared. They’re opening up my head. Think about it. How painful do you think it would be?”
GD : “If you’re forcing yourself to do this because of me…”
H : “That’s your problem. Why would I open up my head because of you? Straighten out your face.” She threatens to not go if he didn’t lighten up. He tries to smile as demanded by her, but most unconvincingly.
She gives him her ‘royal’ command LOL
H : “By chance, If I die without saying goodbye,… I won’t ever get tired of waiting for you. So take your time coming to me. Don’t hurry over.”
(Both Halmeom and MS were afraid that he’d harm himself when Halmeom died.)
GD : “I don’t want to. You go last. Or else, I’ll become more rebellious. Without you, who’s going to tell me to live a good life?”
H : “Hey, hey, other people’s advice is the most useless thing in the world. Don’t ever ask other people about your affairs. Don’t go crazy because you can’t have your own way, being afraid of what other people think. You live the way you want to. Got it?”
GD : “How about what you just said? Isn’t this advice?”
H : “This is an order.”
Episode 11 – Advice on Letting Go of the Past
At the party in memory of Halmeom, GD sits morosely while MR, Sang Man, an Indian ex-patient, Jae Young and Moon Soo speak of Halmeom.
Ma Ri says who cares what Mama was, Mama is still Mama.
SM : “That’s right. Grandma said we shouldn’t be chained by our past.” (That’s good advice for GD.)
Episode 11 – Advice on Not Depending on ‘Drugs’ and Informing Others of One’s Pain
After the party, GD wakes up in Halmeom’s shop shuddering in pain. As he takes some painkiller, he remembers Halmeom’s advice, during one of the last few times he’d gone to her place to sleep.
H : “When I’m not around, don’t take medication recklessly. Today is the last day.” (The last time she’d give him the tablets). “Your pain won’t go away just because you take this. It will hide the pain and your body won’t even recognise that it’s in pain later. You’ll ruin your body later.” (The show has inserted this word of foreshadowing.) “You need to say ‘It hurts’ when you’re hurting. Do you understand what I’m saying?”
*EPISODE 15 SPOILERS*
Gang Doo had all along suffered but told his friends that he was OK. Each time he had a nosebleed/blackout or accident, he never admitted to being in pain. GD only took the last piece advice after Jae Young and Sang Man repeated it in Episode 15. He actually did finally tell MS that he was sick, just in time.
This is a recap of my favourite scene in Episode 12, where not only do our OTP finally get on the same page, but Show gives us the parallels with their past encounters.
Saving Each Other
*EPISODE 12 SPOILERS*
I like how Show completes the loop of saving each other with Moon Soo and Gang Doo. They each had their turn to be embarrassed, humiliated, needing physical as well as emotional support, and they were able to be in need as well as to find support with and from each other, respectively.
After the party in Halmeom’s shop, where GD seemed out of it most of the time. Moon Soo perhaps remembers Halmeom telling her : “Don’t let him (GD) be hurting all alone.” She returns to the shop to find that GD is sitting up, troubled.
GD is difficult with her.
GD : “Just go. Let me be alone.”
MS : “You were alone all this time. Not anymore.” (MS has an innate wisdom to know the right time to act.)
…
GD : “Don’t embarrass me. Please go.”
MS : “When I was acting dumb and idiotic, you saw me like that and stayed by me. I want to be by your side.”
GD has tears filling his eyes : “Go, please.” He wipes his eyes.
MS puts her bag down and raises her hand to stroke his head, but he catches hold of it.
He finally raises his head and looks her in the eye : “I clearly told you to leave. If you don’t leave now, I won’t let go of this hand.” His grip tightens and his look is challenging and desperate and hopeful.
MS pulls her hand out of his grip, which is a gentler replay of how she pulled herself away from his hold after the fight in the construction site office. Poor GD looks devastated, thinking he is being abandoned again. However MS reverses what she did that time, by coming close to hold him against her. It undid her abandoning him at the construction site fight.
It was a reciprocation for the time he’d held on to her on the stairs. It also reciprocated how he literally pulled her from the hole in the ground, where she’d sat passively. This time he’s the one who’s passive, waiting to be saved. The one who saves is the one on the higher level. As @Viva noted, on the stairs, first he was on the higher step, then the next time she was on the higher step. They took turns to help each other.
This time, at Halmeom’s shop, she’s the one standing, taller than him, consoling him, and watching over him, while he is seated like a child, holding on for support.
As she pats him on the back she is clearly showing him that she would stay by him, and that he would be okay. It hearkened back to the way he’d been concerned about her on the stairs, when he was relieved that she was okay, although he wasn’t. He finally cries properly, no longer hiding his pain, able to grieve while holding on tightly to her as she comforts him.
The next morning, GD wakes up to find that MS has stayed the night with him, meaning that not only did she agree to comfort him for a time, but was determined to stay by his side for the long term. She in effect had agreed to his terms that he’d be able to hold her hand and never let go. The expression on his face is the complete opposite of how he’d been the night before. He is able to look directly at her, his eyes no longer clouded, and his expression, peaceful.
He looks at MS as if she’s the most precious thing in the world.
GD :”Why didn’t you leave?
MS : “Because I didn’t want you to be alone when you woke up.”
He smiles slightly at that, looking at her with affection. He takes her hand as she gets up to go, to thank her.
GD : “Thank you. For not leaving, thanks.”
MS : “As long as you’re not mean, I could stay with you whenever you wish.”
🙂
Howdy @GB, @OAL and @Kate!
I’ve been meaning to come to this thread but OBS distracted me. 😁
I’ve finished this about a week ago and I think I’ve never cried so much especially the last episode. I enjoyed it especially seeing how GD and MS took comfort, care and love for each other. Their love story was not an easy one, it’s very heavy but the end game is they found that happiness after everything.
I think GD stood out for me the most because he still grew to be a descent person even with the sufferings.
I liked Halmoni and SM just for being there for GD from the beginning.
My sister asked me if she should watch it but I said it’s very heavy and I had a crudest so she said she’ll look for something else. 😁
I can’t say which one I prefer as a couple, GD/MS or YS/DI. All I know is that I’ll watch all of Junho’s projects. 🥰
Hi @agdr03.
*SPOILERS*
I recall watching JBL the first time and being so stressed over whether GD lived or died. I must have cried tears of relief LOL. I know I was so, so sad when Halmeom died. I loved the realistic depiction of grief and how GD recovered emotionally with MS’s help.
I, too will watch Junho in practically anything. I had trouble with Wok of Love , though. The characters didn’t appeal to me. I should watch Chief Kim.
In the meantime, there are loads of videos of Junho just being himself or in ads.
I’ve just finished (raw!) the last 2 episodes of The One and Only… another kind of heavy show…. but it did hurt so good and the ending was not bad. But I still think JBL is better!
Episode 7
Just like the bus stop, I felt the dock side/harbour side next to the light tower is an important place for GD’s emotional growth. I felt it is his favourite thinking place. By taking a drunk MS there (is it the first time MS been there?), it is like accepting her in his inner heart.
Bus conversation #4
They got on the same bus! It is a very heart-warming trip. GD found MS a seat, guarded her. MS found him a seat, and this is the first time they sit side by side. They are opening themselves and told each other her sister and his dad were victims. GB has already transcribed the conversation. 🙂
If their first bus encounter started at S Mall station. This time, only GD arrived and got off at the S Mall station. Symbolically, I felt they are not entirely there in the healing journey. Only GD remembers the full past, not MS. GD hasn’t told MS that they were there together.
In the office, MS went and have a look at number 30 on the victim lists. In a flashback, she remembered GD putting a jacket on her. She carried on sleeping on his shoulder. He put his hand naturally on her shoulder at first, then he realised he did it and became hesitant, but still who put his hand back on her shoulder. MS knew. They both harbour feelings for each other, and showed it when it can be concealed by drunkenness. Not quite ready to confess yet.
After they departed, I noted a lighting contrast – GD went into the first empty dark room, with a sigh, deep in thought, not doing anything. Compared to MS busy working in a brightly lit office. MS couldn’t wait but rushed to see GD. There is something special about their conversation when they met up – they can just go straight to talking about her dead sister without the usual polite or potential awkwardness when hearing someone passed away.
Judging by how surprised JW was when found out his mother does love the YJ’s father, his darker side is confirmed to me. That may be why he said that he would have been a better person in the last episode. He became someone who tried to scheme for the control of the company, presumably to revenge. Why doesn’t he eat any food in the fridge? I think GD answered that question for me. Seems like he was too busy to do to do eating. JW said if the building is not done well, a person will be responsible, not the company. It makes me think of his Dad.
I can see the MS and GD’s relationship progresses further. She was so worried when she heard GD got hurt! Even waited outside his inn. I felt GD was touched when she said she was scared. Likewise, when MS knocked her head on the floor at her friends, he was also so worried. It is almost like a mirror scene to show us how much they care about each other.
The rooftop BBQ scene started off light and fun. I see MS’s face relaxed when she found out the doctor she saw earlier is GD’s sister. When it was all fun and people are playing under the pretend rain created by Sang Man, GD slipped out. Freaking out in the stairs. It was heart breaking to see how broken he was, haunted by the image and the voice of the dead boy.
@GB and @Kate that is what I mean about the stairs encounter. Yes @GB 🙂 It’s the role reversal. In ep 7, it is a reversal of their first encounter in ep 1 (about halfway of ep 1). In ep 1, MS is the one who is struggling to get up the stairs. She saw GD, lost her balance. GD grabbed her and she fell into his embrace. On the surface, in front of a stranger, GD appears normal, seems to be the one who can offer help.
In ep 7, the real self of GD revealed, to someone he knows who has been through it together, he shows his fragile side, how can he be OK? To someone who really have been through, he can ask – are you really OK?
(slightly cross over to ep 8 opening) He was relieved and thought MS is OK.
Although, I don’t think MS is OK. She also appears just OK at this stage like GD in ep 1. She, like GD, may seems like the one who can offer help, but inside she isn’t entirely OK. She couldn’t remember the part the GD and her went through and that may come back to haunt her.
@GB @agdr03
I got sidetracked of the JBL rewatch because of Chief Kim/Good Manager. Of course I watch Chief Kim because of Junho, but I do find the story can be quite funny sometimes. Being the second lead, there isn’t as much screen time of Junho but the interactions of the entire cast is still good to watch. Kim Won Hae and Namkoog Min certainly deliver. It’s a light watch but with depth. I can easily watch one episode after another episode without needing to cry or working out the plot so that’s good!
I think I will try to finish Junho’s Confession next. Watched a few, a little bit like Stranger lite.
@GB
It is always a joy to watch Halmeom and GD.
In ep 5. I felt GD’s no pretending (or put in another way, no BS) differentiates him. He doesn’t pretend he will pay back when he can’t. Did’t he kick the machine and managed to get a drink because that machine owned by a certain company (Managed by Cheong Yoo Builders)? I vaguely remember he tried the kicking trick somewhere else the machine won’t give him any can?
The show likes to use the next shot to give us clue and humour. I remember there was one shot when YT is wondering who the lucky owner of the piece of land is, they show GD’s face.
In ep 7 I love MS when she defended for GD and can’t help but dislike MS’s mum (although I understand where she comes from). When MS’s mum thought GD has too much baggage, MS said, “I don’t know about others, but we shouldn’t say such things.”
@Viva
Your mention of the dock as GD’s thinking place, made me think of the times that GD was shown around a dock or wharf. Besides the time he brought a drunk MS there, once he sat at a different part of the dock or wharf and Yoo Jin joined him. When he was upset (Episode 11) and needed to calm himself, he ran around the dock area until his leg hurt. He needed a wide open space to be from time to time, since being indoors became claustraphobic to him from time to time.
Yes, from hindsight it was nice mirroring of scenes where GD got hurt then later MS got hurt and we get to see their reactions and reciprocity. In a similar way, I like all the encounters on stairs where again they take turns to help each other, or to show their true selves or be embarrassed. It was on the stairs the 2nd time that MS asked GD if he was the one whom she’d met the first time on the stairs. It took her that long to confirm her memory of him, but once she did, she started following him like a faithful pup. LOL.
Yes, it’s true that MS is not actually totally fine. It takes the memory of the past and the link to GD’s suffering to trigger a reaction in her. I’ve written long notes on remembering or forgetting and I can see the wisdom of Halmeom who said: what’s the point of remembering bad stuff. But more on that later.
I have not yet bothered to arrange when I can watch Chief Kim to see Junho with Namgoong Min. I have however watched Confession. I vaguely recall it being interesting and intense. It was smart in how the conviction got over-turned.
Yes to the edits that were slotted in as unexpected scenes: they got us laughing because we knew the inside joke or because it was a surprise. I also recall that GD said the drink dispensing machine was owned by the company who was supposed to provide for him. He managed to get 2 drinks out of that machine.
=======
Episode 7 Things I Noted
GD offers his hand to MS and pulls her up from the bench. The motif of supporting each other by the holding on of hand or arm will repeat. We notice that after she stands, they remain holding hands.
Their having spent the night on the bench probably got GD forgetting himself and wiping the ice-cream off her lip. She didn’t protest.
In his projection of what could have been, GD says that in soccer, he would have ‘scored a goal in a dashing manner’ and been a world cup star. We will see this imagined outcome and his constant desire to be dashing.
It just occurred to me that in the aspect of reciprocity, or parallels/contrasts, MS and GD are both shown to ask what appears to be irrelevant questions. MS wants to meet GD for dinner, and so asks if he had eaten. When he says he had dinner already, she also says she had eaten already and can’t explain why she asks if he had had dinner. It puzzles GD since it was in irrelevant question to him, but it was clear that she wanted to spend time with him. He bought them ice-creams, a comfort food to enjoy, as they converse lightly going down some steps.
At the end of the episode, GD is having an ‘attack of the hallucination’ on the stairs. MS asks GD if he is OK but instead of answering, he asks her if she is OK. It is an irrelevant question to her, since he is the one obviously in distress. However he turns to her for comfort, saying it’s a relief that she’s OK. He holds on to her on another series of steps, unable to move or to converse like before, but he just wants to be with her a while to calm down.
These thoughts just occurred to me now out of the blue. It’s truly interesting what revisiting the episodes seem to reveal.
Episodes 8
Before I read what others have written – some highlights for me from Episodes 8. I needed to go back an episode to get back into 9 onwards to episode 12 which is where we are at the moment.
I know that Episode 8 has already been captured so well by others and many of the themes also, but I am adding my thoughts here anyway as part of my own experience of recollection.
Episode 8
Lovely, heart-warming comedy moment as Halmeoni manages the scene where MS and GD unexpectedly meet in her office and MS’s acquiescence to being part of a white lie! Lol Telling them to leave even though they have only just arrived. Priceless matchmaking style! They stare at one another blankly! Haha
MS pushing GD with his wonky leg on the swing… the tenderness of GD stroking her hair and pulling her to him after he has tested out his ‘flat head’ theory! What a sublime moment in the midst of everything. ‘You were a good kid eh.’ She stands wordlessly enveloped in his understanding and hug and feeling the comfort of her hair being stroked by someone who knows and understands.
The ‘take the next bus’ sequence as they hold hands together staying in the moment as long as possible.
MS’s ‘I am not a good kid’ conversation as she relates what she remembers of the accident. He claps her hand and tells her ‘No’ she is not bad. If this show is focusing on survivor guilt and if the title is ‘Just between lovers’ – this must be a pivotal moment in the whole drama. Half way through the series and this moment takes place between them. He clasps her hands afresh – this time fingers interlaced tightly and they get on the bus together.
@GB has already beautifully related this but I am catching up with my own direct reactions and comments on re-watching. This drama pulls you in, touches your heart and is also very swoony at the same time. I feel I am there in that final handclasp and getting on the bus too.
A note re second male lead’s sister – for me is the only weak link in the show… her character is too cliché – may be the actress. I think I said before that she was super in My Roommate is a Gumiho – really suited her – but her one note tone/demeanour did nothing for me in this drama…very similar to the role she played in Start Up… too mannered. As a result she was one of the characters who came across as more of a plot device.
Survivor guilt meets the ultimate accusation… Nasty break in their relationship as the news of what GD’s father was suspected of is dropped onto MS… creating a sequence of events that have their own unavoidable momentum. Heart-breaking to see the two who have connected suddenly broken apart by suspicion knowing too the impact on both of them as vulnerable people. Referring to GD as a moron is painful at this point when we see the nobility in him and the steps he has taken to get through in life. In the moment she runs away from him. Worst fears realised.
All three of the Father’s are involved in this tragedy… ‘the sins of the Fathers visited on the next generations etc’: GD’s Dad’s apparent guilt in selling quality steel girders; MS’s Dad’s angry impotence poured out on JW’s Dad who as a result commits suicide.
Sweet next door neighbour, Sang Man, ‘Huyng do you have a screw loose?’ as he implores GD to say sorry. GD of course, rightly, comments that simply saying sorry isn’t going to solve everything. But this is a sweet and cheering interlude and allows us again to access wisdom for living not from the powerful but from the disadvantaged members of our story.
I can’t bear the fact that dinner with the boss is an obstacle in MS having that important conversation with GD. But t’was ever thus and this is the down side , the star crossed lovers element of their story.
History, the sins of the fathers, the judgement of people in the present conspire against this healing relationship.
Episode 9
‘Why would you insist on meeting someone who has issues?’ asks MS’s in-denial, ineffectual Father. Irony. I am sorry but he continues to strike me as a weak character who has contributed in many ways to the current situation by off-loading responsibility on others.
Sang Man intervenes to get MS to GD and of course here is another Shakespearean nail of misunderstanding in their current separation as MS mistakes GD’s meeting with second male lead’s half sister for something more. GD is a man in fresh pain and misunderstood!
Sang Man’s fitness and quiet determination + ability to do a ‘flying spin kick.’ My re-watch allows me to appreciate him far more this time – I was worrying on first watch about what would happen when MS saw GD drinking with half-sister!
GD’s stated decision to run away to clear the path for MS and JW. He cannot see himself as having something to offer when compared with JW. Of course, the viewer’s know that MS can see beyond the apparent to the calibre of GD – we can’t blame him for believing all the bad publicity around him. We love him for his efforts at ‘noble idiocy’ because he has a genuine nobility about him.
Halmeoni ministering to GD. How well-acted and written her role is… how well depicted and refreshing this character is! Her love and concern is etched on her face and shows in her every plan and action. She is writing him a letter for after her death. Poignant. This is his inheritance to come – inherited due to his character not due to his blood relationships.
JW encounters MS’s Dad who has forgotten. We see the steely anger in JW’s eyes as he encounters someone who is oblivious of the way his action tipped another man over the edge and into suicide. What can he say? He quickly regains his polite social demeanour and makes conversation about the building site – of course that crashes into MS’s Dad’s memories too. Now, both are jarred and remembering but from different vantage points. (I need to go back and read @GB’s thoughts on forgetting and remembering).
Another misunderstanding and missed opportunity as GD overhears MS and her mum and her mum enthuses re JW and her getting married to JW. GD walks away sadly.
MS did see him… but he is cold and determined when they speak on the bus. Distancing himself. Painful. MS puts up a fight against the noble idiocy … although she too is at the edge of her ability to cope with the pain this situation is causing. They are too fragile and their union not strong enough yet to sustain a lover’s tiff. He walks away even though she hopes he will come running back to her. Painful.
She reassures herself of their relationship. MS is the stronger one through all this – she is more grounded in what is going on. GD is strong but using it to distance himself for her sake, he thinks. We already discussed the fact that GD is sacrificing his happiness with MS for her sake because he treasures her and wants better for her than he thinks he can provide.
The powerful image of GD going off to sea … despite her being there he jumps aboard the fishing vessel and is carried away in a boat looking back at her on the harbour side. I watched this sequence a number of times – loved it for some reason. Satisfyingly sad and cathartic! Didn’t he look manly in his fisherman’s gear btw!
Episode 10
A good break in the tension for GD to be aboard a fishing vessel now. Time to be and to reflect and to be numb if needs be. Discussion about ‘tides’ and timings that you need to catch in life.
Back at the escort bar…Mari, angry that GD was fired, tells the director ‘He is my life saver’. Again the theme of nobility that runs through our account of GD.
The encouraging visit of Halmeoni
Bracing encouragement for MS. Halmeoni continues to play her wise sage role with a hint of deus ex machina too (her plans for GD). The Acorn story … we have already discussed.
Grandma’s failing health breaks into this interlude episode and we are caught up in that as are many of our central characters… Conversations happen and connections are made with past events….
GD heads back on another boat. ‘The tide! I can’t miss the timing.’ referencing a previous sharing of wisdom with a fisherman who understands about life’s seasons.
I am not sure what I think of MS’s strategy of showing up for GD whatever he says. On the one hand she is strong and wise enough to know that he cares for her and on the other – although this is a good dramatic narrative it doesn’t ring true to me. I think GD would have needed space rather than for MS to constantly be showing up. That space would have allowed him more naturally to soften and begin to hope again and be proactive towards her. It’s not very romantically appealing dynamic.
Halmeoni’s hospital stay does more to bring all our characters together as they focus on her.
Ep 11
Junho brilliant as ever as he embodies GD going through uncertainty, anger and loss in this episode.
I don’t think he won any awards for this performance…. can’t imagine why.
The solitary figure of GD crouched at the foot of Halmeoni’s bed… powerful visuals as usual in this beautifully directed drama.
Some beautiful and very moving scenes here… GD in conversation with sleeping Grandma re being pretty in heaven and so on….
His encounter with this process of loss is all the more because of his deep attachment – when he attaches he attaches strongly – all the pent up grief and loss in this young man.
Mari tells a story that reveals GDs determination and strength and gives MS tips about biding her time and allowing GD to find her. Good!
Waiting. There is a lot of waiting in this and the previous episode.
MS recognises now GD’s need to mourn so that he can receive comfort later.
Loving the soundtrack as ever … it really carries you through these episodes!
GD – memories of Halmeoni and carrying out her post-humous requests…
First hints that there may be something seriously wrong with GD’s health
Wonderful poetic justice… GD is the owner of the land that the company need to buy for their building project! The meeting with semi-baddy boss is brilliant. I find myself snorting with laughter when that scene opens!
Mari ‘People are different’ as she responds to semi-baddy boss lumping Grandma in with all eldery people. A hymn to the uniqueness and value of each individual. Very moving.
The commemorative feast for all those who loved and were loved by Grandma… also very moving. With different memories of things Halmeoni had told each of them about her background! Halmeoni the story teller who was different things to different people!
GD receives MS’s embrace of comfort as he turns a corner and they connect again. MS gets one of her intuitions and goes back to find out how he is.
Ep 12
Sadness is your strength
‘Victims can be perpetrators’ conversation between JW and MS. He is remembering the comments from her father that tipped his father over the edge.
We are back to facing up to the past and the question of remains not being properly dealt with after the accident + the question of commemoration and what it provides for those who grieve.
Lovely tender impromptu date for GD and MS…’Grandma can you see us?’ How joyful he is and they are in that moment. A kind of resolution of grief. So good to see them happy together and it feels now that it is on a firm footing after all they have been through. Something has been settled.
Loved the buying the new clothes scene with GS and Sang Wan. What an uplifting part of this episode! Sang Wan the big spender! The scene where they walk proudiy down the street strutting their stuff. Fab.
Sang Wan has a theory that God sent Grandma to GD and GD responds ruefully that God must have been exceptionally sorry for him. ‘He gave me you too.’ says GD softly. Sniff.
When Sang Wan bursts in on an almost kiss scene between GD and MS does he castigate himself in Chinese or Japanese as he leaves?? I can’t tell what language he used.
Slightly concerned about MS’s friend’s perm getting spoiled as they use the bathing facilties…
The lovely warm back hug where MS is enveloped in GD’s new parka jacket.
GD’s courtly knight style gallant climb to bring ice cream to MS – lovely romantic sequence follows.
Hi all… As usual so much to enjoy … just one or two comments:
@Viva so agree that one of the joys of this show is GD and Halmeoni… could have been up for a best couple award. Reminded me of a similar type of relationship in Start-Up… but in JBL everything is grittier, fresher, less sentimental and as a result more moving.
@Viva and @GB — the dock as thinking place. Yes. And place of waiting and hoping and occasional beautiful meetings. Also the place of running away.
@GB Aha..Yes to the MS sixth sense! Yes, a repeat pattern she is increasingly attuned to GD and his needs.
Yes to her newly acquired wisdom – again the wisdom of the tides that you cover in your next post – that GD heard about on his fishing trawler – there will be a time when GD is ready to be comforted.
I love the way these sage voices are dotted around and we hear wisdom from all types of characters within the plot…
@GB your comments on Episode 11 … very interesting – on not being afraid to make mistakes and not taking advice!!! I had missed most of this. Thank you for highlighting and discussing them. I think I tried to watch too much on the trot – there is richness in most episodes isn’t there?
‘Other peoples’ advice is the most useless thing in the world, don’t ever ask other people for advice about your affairs’ !! Love it and in a balancing out way… this is good advice for me.
Apparently Sang Man seems to speak a little Japanese and Chinese – so that means when he is telling himself off for interrupting GD and MS in their first proper kiss… they can’t understand him as he says he is useless other than as someone with expertise in martial arts. A lovely touch at that point in Episode 12.
I have noticed that I keep getting his name wrong – sorry for any confusion
@Kate, thank you for giving us the highlights of the episodes and your thoughts that accompanied them. They served as a great mini recap so we know where we are.
I’m struck by what you say:
I took this as MS’s following through on what Wan Jin said that inspired her. MS is nothing if not proactive once she makes a decision on what to do! She was like that as a teen and also as an adult.
WJ : “It’s all about timing. Seeing how you two keep on missing each other, isn’t that a sign you shouldn’t meet in the future?”
MS : “Unnie!”
WJ : “The person who is by your side when you’re feeling desperate is the real deal. Think about it.”
MS : “I think you’re right.”
WJ : “What?”
MS : “I think I am anxious now because I can’t stay by GD’s side. Right. That was it.” And off MS scampered, with fresh purpose.
MS had understood that she should be the one to always be by GD’s side, especially when he was desperate, so that he’d know she cared ie she was the real deal and not Yoo Jin. Hence she put it into practice immediately when she found out that GD was back on shore.
I guess she was actively counteracting the many times they’d missed being together after the suspicion/misunderstanding. If her walking away from him before led to him running off, then she decided to buttonhole him at every opportunity. The other thing she noticed, was that she caught him being happy to see her, while pretending that he wasn’t. So she ‘attacked’.
Her strategy almost worked too, since in the office, she accosts him and takes his hand, and he admits to Yoo Jin that he used her (YJ) to help him get out of the office, or he might have taken Moon Soo with him.
However, it was good that she knew when to let him grieve, and when to not let him mope by himself. Her actions also assured him that she was choosing him over Joo Won, who was the reason for his running away.
The language Sang Man spoke was Chinese (Mandarin). It may have to do with his picking up some Chinese martial arts, although I’m not sure about that. SM seems to be good at picking up foreign languages. 🙂
@GB … this makes sense and is a good account of the impact of MS’s pro-active approach to GD. Amusingly, of course, getting the wrong side of the stick when WJ offers her advice… that’s a realistic detail about how we interpret the advice of others!
Aha… Mandarin Chinese…! Good for Sang Man. I am noticing so much more about him this time around.
Do you have more than a passing grasp of Chinese btw? I wish I did. I am picking up a sketchy passive grasp of Korean words, ditto Chinese words. I haven’t branched out into J dramas because so far nothing has appealed.
I just have to give a shout out to Na Moon-hee who played Halmoeni. I have seen her in so many dramas and will watch her in anything. I love her in this edgy role. She is definitely a scene stealer. I saw her in Miss Granny, Navillera and Dear My Friends to name a few. She is now 81 years old. I understand that she is in Taxi Driver (on my must list). I think her fellow cast mates would appreciate her. She ups their game. She, to me, gave so much heart and soul to this drama and had the energy of actors who are decades younger. I am certain that working with her is like attending a master class.
@OAL
You remind me that our senior actors have actually brought a great deal of gravitas to bear in this show. They played what seemed like minor roles but they were essential in anchoring the story in its commentary of society’s failure to help its own. If the families had received the right kind of help, their years of pain could have been mostly eradicated.
I quote once again @Tom who had insights on the actors and the production choices. I leave it to you to see if you agree.
I am not well up enough in the art of making shows to know if what he says is so, but I do agree with his line: “I want a drama that moves me and takes me to a world that it creates….I don’t need it to be big budget…I just need it to immerse me.” And this, JBL certainly has done and continues to do with each rewatch.
@Kate
By the standards of the society I live in, I’m practically considered to know no Chinese. However, I understand bit and pieces, so a smattering or a passing grasp is about right, I guess.
I started at one time an online Korean course that has helped me ‘hear’ better some of the dialogue. It’s always nice to hear the familiar phrases and to automatically translate them in my mind. However Koreans who hear me attempt to speak them, will not understand much of what I say LOL.
I envy all those who as adults, are able to learn and speak the Asian languages with the correct intonations. The best time in our lives to pick up languages would have been when we were 0-6 years old. After that, language learning is more and more of a struggle. Unfortunately I didn’t know that when I was a child!
@OAL – so agree re Na Moon Hee… haven’t seen her in anything else but will want to and she is 80. Wow.
@GB – that extract from Tom is so helpful in understand the success of this drama. Thank you for sharing it. Makes a lot of things clear. More of an ensemble cast and the experienced actors both having their own story arks and allowing new actors to shine because they are not carrying the whole thing. The way the story is told, the editing … everything used to allow the best to emerge from this cast.His comment about wanting to be ‘immersed’ and so on. What a great analysis.
@GB -I studied languages at school and uni but am not sure I have the mental head space to take on the challenges of these Asian languages and the alphabets. As you say we are not at the ideal stage to absorb. Perhaps I will settle for now with learning one or two stock phrases that I can pronounce correctly!
ps I get a lot of my Youtube ad breaks in Chinese at the moment. I’ll bet I’m not the only one. I think it was after watching an entire C Drama on Youtube when Viki was slow.
@GB and @Kate, I found so much to agree with in Tom’s comments. They enriched this whole experience.
I enjoyed The Red Sleeve Cuff so much. It was a highlight of this past season but I was blown away by Just Between Lovers. It reinforced my appreciation for Lee JunHo and his acting skills. But most of the whole ensemble were also so good.JBL is one of those dramas that sticks to me. It is very special.
@OAL and @Kate, that is so true. I really like very much so many shows that I’ve watched or am rewatching now, but nothing matches how much JBL makes me feel. Even without the bells and whistles, the grand panoramas and in dreary colours, this show remains the most engaging in so many ways. It stands out as one show which portrays sad realities with warmth and hope. When the show-makers called it a healing show, they knew what they were talking about.
Saint Moon Soo
Saint Moon Soo LOL is a bringer of light. She brought light into Joo Won’s home literally, by pulling back his curtains, to let the light in, and so that he would enjoy the beautiful view he had through his glass wall. What a sad, inward looking personal life JW had, when his home had no furniture, no knick knacks, nothing personal, and no light entered it. When MS rejected him, he sadly drew the curtains shut again, blocking out the light.
*SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 12*
With GD, MS also brought light. By Episode 12, she had let him grieve for several days, but her wonderful sixth sense with regards to GD led her to return to Halmeom’s place where GD was fighting his demons, unable to sleep. She found that the light fuse had blown in the front room, but took care of GD first. She offered him the comfort and company he needed in which to grieve thoroughly, so that he could sleep peacefully. Then she fixed the fuse for the light and got it working again, literally turning on the light for GD.
Not wanting GD to awaken to an empty room and to wonder if he’d been abandoned, she stayed the night with him until first light. Her presence had given him security and peace. So she brought light to him both literally and emotionally.
After receiving MS’s ministrations and attention, GD is able to give more. In Ep 13, GD notes that JW looks like he’s moping outside MS’s father’s noodle shop and takes care of him, by not leaving him alone. This is similar to how MS did not leave GD alone.
Thoughts on GD’s Sweetness and on Forgetting/Remembering Part 1
Episodes 1-7
*SPOILERS*
I was thinking that show brings up a dichotomy about forgetting and remembering.
We have seen that GD was rather upset that MS did not remember him. It seemed that after she had been rescued, she forgot about GD who had been left in the rubble. When he meets her as an adult, he finds that not only did she not remember that they had been together during the collapse, but she forgets that she’d seen him on the stairs or that she had saved him after he was beaten up.
Halmeom advises him to let forgotten memories be. No good could be gained from remembering the horrific experiences that the mind wanted to hide from one’s consciousness. It seems he took this to heart, because he never bore MS any ill will for having ‘abandoned’ him in the rubble, and he never reminded her about what they suffered together.
In Episode 7, GD comes in after MS fell and hit her head in Wan Jin’s apartment. He’s stunned to find out that WJ was terrified MS had lost more memories as a result. WJ kept asking MS questions about her name, the date, etc to check that MS could remember everything.
GD asks WJ : “What are you doing?”
WJ : “She hurt her head before and lost a lot of her memory. I have to check.”
It’s a revelation to GD. It never occurred to him that MS would have gotten hurt after being rescued. When she was on the stretcher, being carried out, her stretcher was dropped over some broken concrete. Her head may have been wounded at that time. She was still conscious and trying to speak, but was not heard. Still she had been trying to point back to the rubble to tell her rescuers that GD was still alive inside.
In any case, it explained to GD the possible reason for MS’s continual lapses in memory, and he came to see it as a good thing for her. (As he would mention in Ep 13)
When WJ checks if MS can remember GD, he looks a bit apprehensive, maybe afraid that MS may have forgotten him again, LOL. But MS can name him and claims she can remember everything.
GD next finds that MS’s memory loss is selective. When Jin Young watches a previous year’s soccer match, MS asks Jin Young why he is watching the soccer game as if it’s his first time watching it.
Jin Young : “I usually watch the game after finding out the result. If not, I get too nervous to watch it.”
(The victims of the collapse never had this option. They were thrown into the situation and lived in the fear of not knowing if they would be rescued.)
Surprisingly MS says : “Then instead of last year’s game, watch the game between Liverpool and AC Milan.” GD stares in surprise at her because what she says is what he had told her years ago. (We see a flashback of that time in the rubble.) She remembered all the details that he’d told her perfectly, however she could not remember how she knows them.
Unfortunately her memory of the game, sparks off his memory of the time when they were almost passed out from lack of food and water. We see GD through a shaky camera, as he suffers another episode. He hears the usual auditory hallucination and runs to be alone on the staircase.
When MS finds him trembling on the stairs, his main concern is whether she is okay. If for MS, forgetting was supposed to be a good thing (according to Halmeom), then he worried how she might be after remembering the soccer match. When he finds that no trauma had been triggered in her, he hugs her in relief, that it is only he who suffered. What a sweet, generous person he is.
Forgetting/Remembering Part 2
In Episode 8
*SPOILERS*
Halmeom feeds GD rice with canned food (she only likes foods that are bad for her!)
GD : “You eat things like this and chain smoke. Isn’t it such a fraud that you’re healthy?” (Poor GD doesn’t know yet that she’s far from healthy.)
H : “Hey, in my time, we couldn’t eat canned food like this because there were none available. That’s why childhood memory is so important.”
Poor GD says : “I don’t remember the good times in my childhood. I don’t remember. I only remember all the sucky things.” (This is opposite of what MS has. She remembers her childhood but not all the most sucky things of the collapse)
GD would probably have liked to enjoy the peace of mind that MS did, by forgetting his painful experiences, yet he never resented MS.
In Episode 9
*SPOILERS*
Yoo Jin is the unexpected person who triggers MS’s memories. She meets MS to get her to bring GD back to work on the Memorial. The Memorial made by 2 survivors was good ‘marketing’ for Cheongyoo Builders.
YJ : “You still haven’t made up with him?”
MS : “We aren’t fighting though.”
YJ : “Then please convince him, MS. I think this project is perfect for you two: the right people.”
MS : “The right people?”
YJ : “There’s nothing more pathetic than seeing people who feel sorry for themselves. You two are different. You two are both family of victims and both survivors.”
(Moon Soo is hearing this for the first time. She had not known, or forgotten, rather, that GD was a survivor like herself.)
YJ : “Even so, you two worked hard at the construction site without showing any difficult feelings. It’s amazing. GD is a pretty strong person. Don’t you think so? Or maybe not. He’s probably different when he’s with you.”
MS sits in stunned silence.
YJ : “Did he tell you about the hard time he had after getting injured in the accident?” (We next see MS sitting alone in the restaurant, and I presume that YJ may have given her some info about the tragedy before she leaves.
MS remains seated in shock. The trauma that normally visits her in her dreams, only, comes up now while she’s awake (something that GD had not wanted for her to suffer).
She imagines that the glass wall next to her shatters and she recalls how it shattered in the S Mall. This time she recalls seeing a teenage GD through the broken glass. She even recalls a bit of her time in the rubble with GD, where she’d collected water to drink, and had given some water to Gang Doo. She runs to GD’s room, but he was about to leave on the boat. He sees her on the dock but chooses to board the boat and to turn his back on her, literally.
GD on the boat thinks [My life might be more complicated in the future. If I’m going to be ruined, it’s better to be alone. And so I’m running away.] (At least he does not try to lie to himself that he’s not running away.)
He can’t maintain his turning away from MS however. He turns around to look at her as the boat pulls away. In the same way that they’d locked eyes, when he was on the road and she’d walked to the back of the bus to keep sight of him, so again they do the same in reverse, when he leaves her and she walks along the edge of the dock to keep him in sight.
Where before, it was the beginning of MS’s awareness that she did not want to be parted from him because they were just starting to spend time together, this time she was unwilling to part from him because he made it seem like the end for them, when she had just started to remember.
Forgetting/Remembering Part 3
Episode 10
*SPOILERS*
After seeing GD off on the boat, MS feels alone and bereft. She starts to recall many of their times together. Passing the alley where she’d found a badly beaten GD, she recalls that he’d held fast to her arm and pulled her close. This was one of the occasions that she’d forgotten that she’d GD, however after the shock of knowing GD was a victim and survivor like herself, she seems to have good recall.
She recalls how he befriended her by initiating the conversation about the name of the bus stop. She also recalls what GD said about how the victims were not only the ones who died, but also the survivors who still suffered. She finally comes to realise that GD was speaking about himself as well.
I find it a nice balance that while on the one hand GD allows MS to be forgetful, on the other, MS starts to regain her memories, which leads her to greater and greater appreciation of what GD has been suffering and how good a person GD is.
GD on the boat is given medicine in the form of soju to help him sleep. He recalls what she said about liking the taste of soju. Everything reminds him of MS and how he misses her. He’s so heartbroken, he can’t sleep.
MS gets to chat with Halmeom about her forgetting GD in the collapse.
MS : “Did you know that GD and I were in the accident together?”
H : “What’s the use of bringing up the past?”
MS :”I didn’t know. Like a dummy. Whether it’s truly that I can’t remember or if I’m trying to be at peace alone, I don’t know myself.”
(MS feels guilty that GD is suffering alone. However, even GD would later on ask, what was the point of more than 1 person suffering the painful memory. We will see how the inability to forget tears MS’s mum apart, and did tear her family apart.)
H : “Why is that your fault? You got hurt. That was a terrible accident.”
MS : “I just feel like I’m doing something wrong.”
H : “A squirrel has two acorns. He puts one in his own mouth. And he saves the other one for the wintertime by burying it. You know what? He works so hard for it, and being dumb, he can’t eat it because he can’t find it. He forgets about it.”
MS : “What a waste.”
H : “It’s a waste. But rather than being wasteful for a moment, the acorn that was buried underground in the winter, grows leaves, becomes a tree, then makes a forest. Aren’t we grateful for that?” (Halmeom is pointing out that forgetting could bring greater benefits.)
H : “If it’s too hard for you, it’s one way to forget everything and bury it. How would you know how it would turn out later? In life, it could be a blessing in disguise. You know?”
Halmeom helps put forgotten painful memories in a positive light. What she does not say is that remembering or knowing too much about the painful past, could be devastating. We will see something of this in the later episodes when MS discovers more.
https://www.soompi.com/article/1513754wpp/na-moon-hees-mother-passes-away-at-age-101
False alarm….it’s her mother. Still sad but…
Thanks for the info @Birdie007. So her family is very long-lived. We look forward to having Na Moon Hee with us for another 20 years at least!!
Hi all and @GB,have just seen the new posts and will go back and comment on them.
Another very strange week – a lovely colleague suffered a stroke on Wednesday… we have been on tenterhooks and had early this morning that he is now doing much better.
Here are my highlights for Episode 13
This is a very rich episode and I have left a lot of good stuff out!
Powerful opening scene with MS’s mother at the bus stop looking at the building site – in searing emotional pain.
Lovely sequence with GD and MS sharing cold meds after their kisses of the night before + GD is jealous when she looks across the site at JW. Cute. ‘ It’s no use looking at him now. You can’t get a refund!’… hahaha. She tells him he is a much better man and also a good man like the CEO.
MS mum cottons on to what is going on with the memorial park…. MS Mum and Dad in tense encounter about seeing and not seeing their youngest daughter after the accident. It’s all about letting her go and not being able to let her go. Their stuckness as both are in pain and she blames him for not being able to let go because she didn’t see her daughter’s body.
Nose bleeds and more foreshadowing of GD’s illness…
Mari to GD… ‘Where did you catch such a nasty cold?’ and he smirks! Lovely to see him so happy and confident.
Sang Man blown away by JW’s height when GD brings him home for food – concerned that JW is in a bad way. They share their stories of attraction to MS – JW’s is more cerebral and because of values that resonate with him…he relates to her as a person. GD’s response is more visceral ‘just because’ and there may be the notion here of them being ‘fated’ + he feels connected to her and has to care for her. She has given him hope for the future. One of my favourite scenes because we see into GD and just what MS means to him.
Surprising aspects of ‘bad’ boss on his outdoorsy date with Mari… at the very least we see just how far he has walked away from his true interests and nature.
More attention on the pain of the second ML and FL and her loss of the love of the second ML and how much she regrets this…
MS Mum at Yeon Soo’s grave. For me this is one of the episodes where we see the calibre of the actress… drawing us into her ongoing state of inconsolable grief…
Powerful confrontation between MS and Mum … provoked by Mum’s anger re the memorial park and not being in the picture.
The sequence where we see what things might have been like if the accident didn’t happen…poignant.
‘So, we have to be happier than anyone out there.’ says GD to MS who is feeling guilty about her feelings for him. They kiss. Lovely song… think it is Junho singing this one.
@GB – I really enjoyed your latest reflections on Saint Moon Soo, the sweetness of GD, forgetting and remembering.
The themes come and go don’t they … like musical themes …to different effect depending on who remembers and at what point. Forgetting and remembering… obvious statement here… at the heart of this drama.
I enjoyed the detail of what you wrote and what you saw in the episodes. Enriching perspectives as ever!
My comment re second ML’s attraction to MS should have read: he relates to her as a person *with similarities to him value and work-wise*.
Hi, Am very curious-is there setting about the S. Korean atmosphere with fine dust or is it stress or both that causes so many nose nose bleeds? Do the people not have clotting factor? Please advise, if anybody knows. Thank you.
@OAL – great question re the frequency with which ill health is depicted via nose bleeds! I am curious too to hear about this.
https://wanderlustified.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/5-surprisingly-true-things-from-korean-dramas/
@OAL – some responses in this comment piece ie non-medical article.
@Kate, Thank you!
We seem to have abandoned JBL in it’s final stretch. LOL. However there’s just so much going on, it’s no wonder that we may have to make a longish hiatus.
Still, I did have notes or some transcriptions of dialogue that I put aside, so I will just post what I have.
= = =
Forgetting/Remembering – Discovering Part 4
In Episodes 12, 13, 14, 15
*SPOILERS*
Despite Halmeom’s and GD’s keeping the ugly truth from MS, she continues to be informed of GD’s harrowing experience. MS comes to know a shocking piece of information days after Halmeomn’s funeral, after an impromptu party at Halmeom’s shop. After the others leave, Jae Young asks MS to get hold of the medicine that GD takes, and to let her check if he’s well.
JY : “Did Oppa tell you he’s hurting anywhere?”
MS : “No. Ah… the medicine. He does take some medication. He said it’s painkiller. It’s blue. I’m not sure. Why, is Gang Doo sick?”
JY : “I’m sure he’s hurting. Oppa almost died in that accident. Ah, you might know better than me.”… “So please don’t bring up that accident with Oppa. He spent several days with a dead body. It’s painful to remember those things.” (This is news to MS.)
We see that GD recalls the time he’d been rescued. The rescuers got him out and he told them that there was a hyung alive still alive in the rubble, but they only found the boy, (MS’s first love) who’d been dead for days.
MS remains unaware of whose corpse GD had spent days with. She has come to realise how wonderful GD is, that he continued to work at the site where he’d been badly hurt and where he’d been traumatised by being alone with a corpse. He continued cheerfully, without blaming anyone, and without self pity although he was still in pain, according to Jae Young.
Forgetting/Remembering Part 5
We come to understand why MS’s brain shut down her memories: it was to preserve her from self hate. She had more than once expressed her guilt at not remembering, as if she wanted to be at peace while others suffered. This guilt hit her hard when she made a discovery that her past decisions, had inadvertently contributed to GD’s trauma.
In Episode 14-15, MS finds the phone belonging to her first love, Sun Jae, in GD’s drawer. The penny drops when she realises that because of her, not only did Sung Jae end up dead, but that his corpse had contributed to GD’s horrible hallucinations. She alone got out first and didn’t manage to get help for GD. He was left in the collapse for another 3-4 days alone, (I posted above the harmful effects of forced isolation, as with prisoners kept in solitary confinement) speaking to the dead hyung, while hallucinating that hyung responded to him.
MS is wracked with guilt. She hates herself so much that although no one blames her, she denies herself the right to be GD’s girlfriend. In Episode 15, GD and MS visit Sung Jae’s mother. After the visit in which MS confesses her role in drawing Sung Jae to S Mall, GD sees that she intends to walk away from him and not return.
He won’t let her just leave like that when she’s still not looking at him.
GD : “You can’t. If you leave like this, you won’t see me again, right?” (He embraces her.) “Don’t do that.”
MS : “You don’t have any negative feelings towards me?”
GD : “Of course I don’t have any negative feelings towards you. Why would I…”
MS : “Instead of me, you should have come out first. If so, then you didn’t have to stay behind with Sung Jae, you wouldn’t be hearing voices till now, and your body didn’t have to be destroyed like this. … If I hadn’t asked Sung Jae to that place either …”
GD stops her, but MS continues loudly : “It’s appalling that I left that place first because I wanted to save myself. I am appalled by myself.
GD : “Hey Ha Moon Soo, is it all your fault that I turned out like this? Do you wield so much influence?” GD lists a series of misfortunes that take place throughout the world and asks if she thinks they are all her fault.
GD : “Even to you that sounds ridiculous, right? (He holds on to her hands.) So don’t ever think like that. Even for a day, I want to be happy with you. Because it feels unfair, I must be happy many times more. (I like his philosophy. Instead of blaming others for a crappy life, he strives to make up for it by living extra hard, being happier, …more loving.)
MS : “Let go.”
But he grabs her wrist : “I told you that I won’t let go of your hand.”
MS protests : “Gang Doo-ah.”
He shakes his head : “Don’t say it. I don’t want to hear it.”
MS : “It torments me to see you. It reminds me of what happened in the past, so I think I will end up hating myself.”
This pulls GD up short. How it affects her is something he can’t argue against. He lets her slip her hand out of his grip, but looks after her retreating back in tears.
So Moon Soo’s not remembering or not knowing had been a blessing, as Halmeom had said. When she had not known, she was able to be open and giving (like Halmeom’s tale of the forgotten nut of the squirrel that became a forest). When she remembered, her knowing tormented her, and she closed herself off from both giving and receiving.
Episode 11 on the Use of the Camera
*SPOILERS*
The first time I heard of a tilt-shift lens was again from the invaluable comments of @Tom. But in order to appreciate what he says about its use in this show, we have to jump to the sad time in Episode 11.
GD comes out of the ward, after saying his goodbyes to Halmeom. In the hospital corridor, he crumples in grief. The camera slowly approaches from behind as he sits on the floor, leaning against the wall, weeping.
@Tom says of this scene: “My initial impressions of the wider shots in the hospital is they are not to give GD space for comfort or out of sensitivity. Instead, it is to show his troubled relationship with grief and institutions. He is given no point of refuge and his grief is fully exposed and on show in the space.
Typically he is framed to appear awkward or off kilter…notice the hospital corridors are deliberately super wide–even for a hospital, and shots are framed to show complexity of angles and forms. The camera is often tilted and there are multiple layers between the camera and GD.
I repeat here @Tom’s comments that I posted above: ” Nearly all shots of GD and MS are framed to make them appear small in their environments. This is most obvious in institutions. However, even in the office the frequent number of below/above eye-level diminish their size by emphasising both the physical space but also increase the complexity and visual dominance of the room’s furniture and elements. The shots often use tilt/shift lenses to distort our normal perception of perspective (moving the centre of vision down lower and this gives that sinking feeling.”
@Tom’s new comments : “There are 2 really interesting elements when he collapses in the hospital corridor,
1….this scene is shot with a tilt/shift lens that draws the spatiality of his world down to the ground (notice the walls are vertical but the vanishing point is not in the centre of the frame)..The world has visually slumped with him
2….His crumpled position in the frame is the same as visual focus of the collapsed structures in the opening title sequence that follow on directly from him slumping (these opening montage shots also appear to be shot with the same tilt /shift settings as the hospital scene)
The overall effect is to diminish them and/or show them as uncomfortable in these spaces.”
Thanks to @Tom for helping me understand what the camera was doing to support the mood of heavy sadness.
On GD’s Grief
The shaky camera trained on GD, shows his emotional turmoil when JY tells him that Halmeom didn’t want medical intervention. To him who had spent days with a cold corpse, he could not fathom how the hospital could refuse Halmeom further treatment. As long she appeared to be breathing and her hand was warm, she was alive to him and should be saved. Poor GD. He orders that she be revived and makes a scene.
@Tom says: “The drama didn’t use the funeral as it wouldn’t take the plot anywhere… Instead, it milked the hospital scene where GD made ICU staff who have to deal with death every day bear the brunt of his grief (as he physically assaults staff).
This scene troubles me, but it did explore so many underlying issues for GD.
…Apart from his ad-hoc “family” of friends he has essentially been asked to carry the effects of the tragedy alone.
…His sister’s ignorance of his fragile metal state around death. Clearly evident in her failure to recognise what re-facing death would do to GD. (Her focus has been more strongly on his funding her degree).
…His comments about Grandmother’s breathing and warmth would have been in stark contrast to the death in the collapsed building.
This scene potentially indicates that when he peeled the fingers off his leg in the collapsed mall, the boy was already dead (his hand would have been cold compared to Grandmother’s warmth). If that is the case, given the effort he had to peel the fingers, the hand of the dead trapped boy would have been there for more than 4hours (required for rigor mortis).
…
I was trying to explore why the drama had played this scene in the hospital and what it revealed about GD, his psychological state, the events in the accident, and his family.
GD is clearly struggling with death…If the shoe in the building site dirt triggered his visions, then Grandmother dying is stirring the demons in his subconscious at a whole new level.”
Fortunately for GD, he did not relapse into having more hallucinations after Halmeom’s death. I’m guessing that it was because this time, he was a little more prepared, he had tasks to carry out as per Halmeom’s letter, and he was not alone. Sang Man and Moon Soo hovered nearby. With MS intentionally refusing to abandon GD, and choosing him over JW, GD rebounded more quickly than he would have done.
It was an amazingly good recovery, in fact, because after this, we do not see GD suffering hallucinations again. However a worse situation awaited poor GD.
Episode 13
*SPOILERS*
Dating and The Gentlemanly Gang Doo
As an aside, in Ep 13 we have GD telling Ma Ri not to like/date Yoo Taek. Later he even warns Yoo Taek to only be a rich client and not to date Ma Ri.
We also see the unhappy scene where Yoo Jin is set up for a blind date by YT in front of Joo Won. She goes on the blind date, only to end up running to Joo Won for comfort.
But this is balanced by the fun discussion concerning dating ideas with So Mi and the warm interactions of GD and MS that are so much sweeter than ‘normal’ dates.
Although GD has been living rough and is ready to fight it out with the worst of thugs, he is a real gentleman at heart. Even Yoo Jin finds him attractive. And in dating, he’s the epitome of correctness.
In Ep 13, So Mi gave them a plethora of suggestions for dating. It was Moon Soo who was interested in the dating places where a couple could get cosy in private, while GD was shocked and looked at MS being excited about those places in surprise.
Another day, they do manage a simple date, while shopping for a gift for Jae Young.
When MS fights with her Mum and gets chased out of the house. GD carries her to Wan Jin’s place. He generously does not ask her any questions and takes her side regarding her negative feelings.
MS while being carried piggy-back says she likes the scent of GD. She does not mind that she’s smelling his sweat.
GD : “You have such a unique taste. You’ve completely fallen for me.”
MS : “Yeah … I don’t want to go home tonight.”
GD : “Don’t go then. Stay with me.”
MS : “I really hate myself.”
GD : “Then, I guess I have to like you even more.” (I like his attitude).
MS : “I want to run away.”
GD : “Sure, why not. Where would you like to go?”
MS : “I don’t know. I’ve never gone away.”
GD : “Let’s go somewhere.”
MS : “Okay.”
MS falls asleep on GD’s back. He brings her to Wan Jin’s place where she will have a chaperone in her friend.
GD : “This is the only place I know. Or I felt like I’d run away with her.” (He said something similar when she held on to his hand in the office. He used YJ to get away from MS because he felt he would end up taking her away with him.)
However Wan Jin thwarts GD’s good intentions by leaving the house with Jin Young. MS wakes up to answer her Dad’s call and finds GD is standing outside waiting in the cold.
MS : “I thought you left.”
GD : “Where would I go, leaving you here?”
MS : “Why are you out here?”
GD : “When I see you, I keep wanting to touch you.” (The sweet gentleman kept his distance so that he’d not be tempted to touch her. He was prepared to stand in the cold rather than disturb her as she slept.)
In the meantime, Yoo Jin spends the night with Joo Won in her apartment. Their lack of conversation and how they separate (in Episode 14) stands in stark contrast to how MS and GD converse.
MS to GD : “What would I have done without you?”
GD : “What do you mean without me? I’m here.”
MS : “I remember seeing you there. I wasn’t alone. I was glad you were there. I remember thinking that.” (GD knows she is referring to their time in the collapsed building).
GD : “I was like that too.”
MS : “But I don’t have other memories. We were together, but why did we meet only now? Tell me. You remember everything.”
GD thinks for a while and strokes her head. He refuses to bring up the past.
GD : “Just leave what you don’t remember. It’s because you don’t need to remember.”
MS : “That’s for my own comfort.”
GD : “Then do you want everyone to feel uncomfortable? It’s better if one of us feels comfortable.”
MS : “I think I said some mean things to my mum.”
GD : “It’s okay to throw a fit every once in a while. It’s too exhausting to live kindly all the time.”
MS : “Why are you always on my side?”
GD : “Are you stupid? Because I like you.”
MS : “I like you too. I like you so much that I wonder if it’s okay for me to feel this way.” (The spectre of guilt that she survived and is happy, when her sister died).
GD : “It’s okay. You have to. If it weren’t for that accident, I’m sure everything would have been perfect.”
The episode ends with the ‘what-could-have-been’ happy scenarios that counterbalance the sad reality. These also remind us of the time they played the game of ‘what a waste’ that the tragedy took away the possibility of GD dating a top celebrity or of MS dating a champion soccer player.
The What Might Have Beens
In Episode 13 we are shown GD’s imagination in a collage of scenes.
[We see what could have been experiences, where the S Mall did not collapse, but instead 15-year old MS had come and met Sung Jae. (We see that SJ was looking at his cell phone with the accessory that MS had made for him).
We cut to a scene of star soccer player, GD, scoring a penalty goal in a World Cup match. Joo Won and Yoo Jin were watching his game on TV, obviously in love and happy to celebrate the goal together.
We cut to a poster, showing the back of a small, solitary MS, looking out to sea, with the caption: ‘The place where wind passed by’. MS, a successful Art Director, watched the same soccer game, proud of GD’s goal and certain that he would win the match for S. Korea. It’s not lost on us that GD’s imagination had him looking cool and dashing and the centre of attention LOL.]
Back in the present, GD takes MS’s hand : “So we have to work hard to be happier than anyone out there.” (Because they had been denied a ‘normal’ life due to the tragedy, he contends that they had a greater right to be happy, or even happier, to make up for the loss).
He kisses her as it snows. It’s probably the first snow of that time. In Episode 14, the snow had obliterated the dark ground so that MS and GD could make fresh tracks, as if starting over.
I felt it was poignant that those happy scenes were really like the wind that passed by JW and YJ, GD and MS. Circumstances did not allow them to grasp the happiness exactly as they would have liked, but they would be able to make their own happiness.
Episode 14 -16
*SPOILERS*
The Pillar
At the construction site, the remains of the collapsed building have been excavated and are being carted off in trucks. At the same time, human remains are found.
GD and MS see one of the trucks pass by with an exposed pillar perched precariously at the end of it. MS recognises the S Mall pillar and notices the danger. She tries to stop the truck.
GD helps by catching up with the truck and gets it to stop, but the sudden stop causes the pillar to fall and almost hit GD. Once again MS is in a situation where she feels guilt that GD could have gotten hurt, indirectly because of her, and again by something directly linked to the collapsed S Mall. What a horrid coincidence.
At first GD thinks he’s okay, however his hands start shaking uncontrollably and he passes out. MS is beside herself with worry while GD makes light of the fact that he fainted.
MS hears that it’s not the first time Sang Man and his mum have seen GD’s nosebleeds.
MS : It’s my fault that he fell.”
GD : “What are you saying it’s your fault?”
MS : “If I hadn’t stopped the truck.”
GD :”Come on now. It’s the truck’s fault for leaving without properly tying down it’s freight with a rope first. The truck could have caused a bigger problem on the highway. You prevented a major accident.”
However the pillar was just the start of the rising guilt for MS. While looking for clothes for GD to change into, she comes across the cell phone of her dead oppa, Sun Jae. The penny drops as MS realises that Sun Jae was the dead person that GD had been with, and had hallucinations of. She begins to hate herself for inadvertently causing GD so much suffering, while comfortably forgetting it all herself. (She probably also recalls that she left GD in the rubble when he could have been the one to be rescued first.)
She remembers how Jae Young had told her not to speak to GD about the collapse, because of his trauma. She’s in tears of guilt and shame.
When GD comes into his room, he finds a totally changed MS who gives him one wordless serious look and then turns away. He cannot bear that she will no longer look him in the eye.
GD : “Look at me.” He shakes her “Look me right in the eyes!” (She can barely glance at him, repulsed by herself.)
He embraces her desperately. “I love you. I love you. If I don’t tell you now, I feel like I won’t be able to.”
Although she remained with him until he slept, she left the motel in tears, disgusted with herself as she recalls at last, how GD had selflessly held up part of the rubble to let her leave first.
In Episode 15, GD tries to bring MS around to forgiving herself. He gets her to continue the work of building the memorial with him. GD uses the same excuse that MS did to get him to pay her attention (we recall that MS used to use GD’s words against him too) : “The memorial…Let’s finish what we began together. You said so yourself. Until we finish the memorial park. See me until then. I won’t bother you more. It’s what you said to me.”
Once again it is the same broken S Mall pillar that brings them together. It’s a fitting analogy that they mend their brokenness together, as they use the broken pieces of the pillar to make the centerpiece of the memorial.
While it is the discovery of GD’s life-threatening and probably fatal illness that keeps MS near him, it is the work on the pillar and the memorial that enables MS to come to terms with her guilt and shame. Through the memorial she was able to let the victims and their friends/families leave their message. She was also able to find out that GD’s father was innocent of theft and deserving of the compensation that had been denied his family.
In Episode 16, coming full circle, and as a parallel to mirroring each other’s words, MS joins GD at the S Mall bus stop and says exactly what he had said to her when he first struck up a conversation with her.
MS : “Isn’t the name of this bus stop ridiculous? Look. It says ‘Front of S Mall.’ That’s been gone for some time already.”
GD : “Why do you remember that?”
MS: “I don’t forget anything now. Anything that’s related to you.” (What a great closure over her amnesia where GD was concerned.)
She sits closer to him and takes his arm. (The distance between the lovers had disappeared.)
GD : ‘I am proud of you.”
MS : “Yes, I am really proud of us.” (They have become pillars of strength for each other.)
He puts her hand into his pocket and smiles at her as they look at the construction over the place where they’d both been buried.
It is both sweet and sad that our couple have grown from suspicious strangers to close partners since their first meeting at that bus stop, but that just as MS can remember everything about GD in peace, instead of in anguish, GD runs the risk of losing his life, and they both know it.
@GB – so glad to see these posts from you! I hadn’t seen that you posted last week and as you say there is a lot going on!
I am really pleased you have taken us into the last 3 episodes. It would be a real shame not to make it to the end of the re-watch.
I will read and digest your reflections during the week and watch final 3 episodes next weekend.
Thank you so much.
Hello there @Kate! I’m glad to see you here. Yes, I wanted to get to the end of the series, to round it off and make a proper end to it, so to speak. That, of course does not mean that we cannot still discuss any parts of the show even after we’ve posted on Episode 16.
I may have a couple more thoughts or notes here and there, but I’ve no time to gather them. I look forward to reading your thoughts. 🙂
Episode 8
Life has been busy! Two family members got COVID and I wonder if I am next! Finally, I can come back to this, where I want to be. 🙂 I haven’t watched Just Between Lovers for a few weeks. When I picked it up again, it’s just as lovely as I remember. During the first time I love watch episode 8 , GD said he needed to apologise. I thought he did something wrong, like not saving the boy when they were both trapped. Later on, it shows he did nothing wrong. Only in the rewatch, I understand this survivor’s guilt.
It’s nice to see MS got jealous when YJ dropped off GD. Their relationship has moved on to a lover quarrel stage. It is very sweet GD opened the bottle of water for MS. @GB has nicely transcribed the conversation – I like how MS gave GD a big boost of confidence. Sometimes we may not have anything, but when tried very hard to help, and that counts.
It is good to hear the other side of the story of the manager. I really dislike the manager in the first episode. We got to hear the back story – someone else didn’t pay him therefore he had nothing to pay his workers. This is the beauty of this drama. No one is 100% bad. There is always a reason behind but just we didn’t know.
GD has more credit than he thinks he had. By using his network he got the materials, and someone was willing to lend him a truck!
I really like the photo taking session, so boyfriend girlfriend like. Even her dad noticed that she smiled so beautifully! I noticed GD’s phone is very battered which is consistent to his character. I appreciate the production team has even paid attention to details like this.
@GB that difference between how MS’s mum treated GD and JW just annoyed me more – welcoming someone who is young and good-looking just seems shallow. MS found it hard to talk to JW about her dead sister, contrast to how comfortable she was with GD. I really like Ms’s aunt. She noticed that MS looked so tired after the dinner with JW. Compared to MS mum, who is consumed by grief, who missed out on the emotions from her daughter who is still alive.
@Kate @GB I too like Grandma wise observation in like – “waiting to forget everything hoping things will get better. Do you know what I realised? Such a day won’t come. What you can’t force, just let it be. Don’t try too hard. Being sad and painful, those things are always with us. We have to accept that. What else can we do?” Just go along, don’t force, don’t try too hard, make a better memory today.
How lovely the bus stop scene! It is heart fluttering to watch a GD suddenly hugged MS. This high, is then followed by the low in the construction site. GD was so desperate to hang on to MS at that point of time. I can feel his desperation.
Like the mother, it is sad to see that MS father didn’t want GD to be interested in his daughter. I can imagine how small GD felt. After the incident at the construction site, rejected by MS’s father and having JW as the love rival, I can understand he rather runs.
What matters though is what MS thinks. She was thinking about him even presented with the “ideal boyfriend”.
@Kate nicely written! Keep saying sorry because of the survivor guilt is something I don’t fully understand. I do wonder, is this how to heal the survivor guilt?
Hi @Viva! I’m glad you’re here and I hope you’ll remain well. My son just had a brush with Covid too… his colleague had it and they lunched together on a Wednesday. The following Sunday, my son had fever and was sick for 48 hours but it didn’t seem to be Covid. So confusing!!! Maybe he was about to get the normal cold or flu anyway while his colleague had Covid. Maybe the rhinovirus or flu virus stopped the Covid virus from getting him? LOL.
I gotta run for a bit. Will be back. 🙂
Hey @GB is it a RAT test? I read that RAT may not be very sensitive:
https://twitter.com/SiouxsieW/status/1501282620994322433
I am not 100% but I have a negative result. I will retest again later. I am isolating for 10 days so on the positive side, I will have more chance to watch my beloved Kdramas! It’s Grid night tonight so I will meet you there!
Hope you are well!
Hi @Viva, although it’s the rapid antigen test, instead of RAT we call it ART Antigen Rapid Test (you can guess why).
Yes it’s not all that accurate. People who get a positive result on their PCR test still test negative on the ART. However, for reasons I cannot understand, doctors may not choose to send a person for the PCR. If we want to do it on our own, we have to pay for it. So of course, we wait to be sent for it. So far my whole family is well even after my son had his fever, etc symptoms and was at home with us. He did not really isolate himself and so we should have been exposed.
Yes, it’s Grid tonight. With Saturday to Wednesday nights having good shows, I’m so busy until Thursdays and Fridays LOL. Saturdays we also have our Rewatch party…. It’s a lot of fun but I’ll have to see if I can maintain the pace once it comes to the time I have my volunteer ‘work’ again.
@Viva, So sorry that you had acovid. Very glad you are recovering. Wishing you a complete recovery. Good health, good dramas and good vibes to you.
Hey @OAL thanks so much for your best wishes 🙂
I haven’t got COVID yet. I was required to test because I live with two positive cases. It’s a requirement here that the whole household are isolated for 10 days. The family members have to do a day 3 and day 10 tests before we can go out and about again.
I will read you in the Business Proposal threads :)!
@Viva, what a great policy! This way everyone can test and be sure after quarantine that you all are well.
Everything is opening up where I live in NYC. I’m still masking and social distancing because I’m older.
It hope you enjoy Business Proposal. There are lots of good laughs in each episode.it is a fun distraction. Laughter is great medicine.
@GB loved your summary of Ep 13.
So agree re GD’s being a gentleman – truly the perfect boyfriend – so solicitous of MS’s well being without being OTT.
Those final imagined moments were very poignant – especially the football and GD’s international goal because that can never be.
@Kate, thanks! I’m extremely happy to see you here.
‘Poignant’ is the right word. I believe so much of JBL is poignant because there’s something so real in it’s portrayal of the resilience of the human spirit. Gang Doo gives us hope that if 1 fictional character’s experiences, based on real calamities, can survive well, so too can we.
Episode 14
This is the ‘first oppa’ episode where the connection – unknown to GD and MS – they both have to MS’s first boyfriend is revealed. Both are powerfully impacted in different ways.
@GB… thank you for that account of MS’s reaction to learning that it was ‘first oppa’ with whom GD shared days underground in the dark. When I saw it unfolding at the end of Ep 14, I wasn’t sure what was driving her reaction. Was she angry that GD didn’t help SJ escape? And of course both of them are submerged in guilt. GD, as you said GB, uneasy tries to reach out to her as she is withdrawing from him. His expressions of love are heartfelt and desperate at the same time.
Will she leave him as the young SJ, by dying, left him alone underground in the dark?
The flashback to his conversation with ‘first oppa’ was powerful.
Young GD underground with SJ in his last moments alive. Death of his frightened underground companion. Left in the dark …on his own. Talking to ‘Huyng… Are you there?’…. We see now how GD’s ‘voices’ were initially imaginary conversations that brought comfort in that devastating isolation and grief…
Another related theme was ‘personal prisons’ — so many of our characters are stuck in prisons ‘no-one has locked us in…Why can’t we get out?’ Will history simply repeat itself or will there be redemption for our characters? Suffering, trauma and the question of the choice to change… what catalyses change and healing in the individual and in the group? In some ways the entire series is exploring the question of healing across a group of disparate individuals. The discovery that their lives are inter-meshed is painful but is also yielding of new choices and ways forward.
Hi @GB… I find his character so moving… yes, he is inspirational indeed!
@Kate, what a succinct and somehow moving set of questions you raise. Yes, the theme of personal prisons, as depicted also by MS’s parents. Prison walls that MS is able to acknowledge are put up by themselves. This too is poignant.
Episode 15
Just a few thoughts and things I noted…
I was in tears for the scene with SJ’s mum. Especially when MS handed her his mobile phone with the decoration on it that MS had given him.
GD is emphatic in the face of MS’s withdrawal: ‘Even for one day I want to be happy with you. Because it feels unfair I must be happy many times more.’ I am inspired by his strength and determination to beat the hand that has been dealt him.
MS is tormented by all that is emerging and is hating herself.
Metaphor of the temporary mending of the burst boiler,,, the need to mend it properly rather than making do with make do. We cut to GD in hospital and see a theme/pattern here.
GD having an MRI scan in an enclosed space! Oh dear…
Post hospital GD crying out to God about what is happening with his liver diagnosis. Why?! Sinks to the ground feeling utterly defeated.
MS’s reflections on the original accident bringing comfort to our second male lead re his dad’s architectural design
@GB – I very much liked the way you wrote about the memorial.
‘It’s fitting analogy that they mend their brokenness together as they use the broken pieces of the pillar…’
Yes, returning to the actual material that was broken and thrown away as rubbish…. powerful.
Ep 16 Major Spoiler
I really enjoyed all the developments and tying up of stories… they really let us hang on and on to find out how GD was…!
I liked so many elements… too many to relate…the way there was continuity of some of the lovely relationships eg Sang Man and GD… the way some people had moved on… the way GD was studying architecture… the way GD and MS reflected on their love and that sense of thankfulness for having survived…
It was as if a load had been lifted from many shoulders by the end of the drama.
I am very glad we have re-watched it. Very satisfying. Very worthwhile.
@Viva – I hope you are Covid free… just back from a conference in the North of England hoping to see a colleague for the first time in 2 years and he was at home with Covid… so I saw him on Zoom instead!
Great to see your reflections on Ep 8…It brought the episode back for me just now as I read your thoughts. I loved that particular heart fluttering bus stop scene… lovely and then of course after the up the down! I also need to remind myself of the wisdom of Grandma. There are some important takeaways from this series for the viewer and for me.
This is a series keeps giving to us and has genuinely repayed re-watching and reflecting. It goes to so many human realities and keeps us engaged with the characters.
Thoughts on Healing
This was called a ‘healing’ drama when it was advertised. It truly is. By entering the pain, grief, and trauma of our characters and watching them get the better of their horrific past experiences and current sad circumstances, we become hopeful too, just like them, as they look forward to a ‘normal’ future.
For those of us in relative comfort, knowing we are confident of continuing our usual lives for the indefinite future, we might acknowledge how fortunate we are in these uncertain times. Our hearts go out to those trapped in regions of violence, among villages and lives destroyed, for whom the simple, (boring) normalcy of a few weeks ago, would be a blessing, plus the many others suffering in our world.
On grief from @Tom:
On being in our own Prisons
In Episode 14, GD and MS walk hand-in-hand to her home. She still does not want to see her mother who had chased her out of the house after their fight.
GD to MS : “I could stay with you all night of course. But not today. She’s your mother. Don’t avoid her. I avoided mine, you see. And so I regret it like crazy.
‘I’m also hurting to death so why do I need to even listen to Mum’s crying as well?’ Looking at her made me more frustrated, so I told her to get lost. Why did I do that? It was only when she was no longer by my side that I realised how stupid it was.”
He gives MS a hug : “So you’ll be okay. You still have a chance. I’ll take on everything that’s giving you trouble. So you just stay stuck right next to your mum, got it?” She nods her head. GD finds her so adorable. He strokes her head : “So pretty. Such a good girl.” He kisses her on the top of her head and leaves.
MS thinks [A person having a worse time than me comforts me. … (Perhaps she thinks of her mother) Then what about you? (She refers to herself and turns to look at her home) It’s said that everyone has their own exclusive prison.]
Cut to YT coming out to the corridor of MR’s bar and his phone rings again. (His prison is his home/wife, and his insecurities in his position which he does not wish to hold.)
Cut to Yoo Jin and Joo Won awkwardly at the bar, not exactly together and not entirely apart. YJ finishes her drink and leaves without a word. (Her prison is her betrayal of JW in the past and JW’s rejection.)
JW lets her go. (His prison is his fear of making a mistake like his father, of being always under the thumb of Yoo Taek or some big company that hires his firm).
Cut to the noodle shop where MS’s Dad is watching TV or channel surfing. (His prison is grieving near the site of the collapse, serving noodles that represent longevity with a degree of guilt that he could not be there for Yun Soo, and being stuck in the rut).
Mum is at home waiting for MS but hearing MS come in she runs to her room, and pretends to be asleep. (Her prison is her inability to grieve properly, and to forgive herself for YS’s death.)
We consider the characters in the light of this.
Sang Man, being childlike, remains consistent throughout. He understands the world simply. If we have done wrong, we should aplogise and make it right and let it go. It should not become baggage to weigh down our relationships. He understands the pain of loss and refuses to allow his loved ones to die, if he might make a difference to keep them alive. He himself is a healing person and his helping Jae Young, ‘the doctor-healer’ in Haelmom’s Suki Clinic, is most apt.
Something Sang Man read out : “To someone who doesn’t know darkness, there’s no light for him either. Live conquering darkness. Then you’d be able to see the light.” – wise words that unfortunately MS’s parents don’t get to hear.
Jae Young has changed from an angry younger sister, to one who wanted to be the doctor to heal her brother, as she grew to appreciate him. She’s also moved from being rigidly rule-abiding where her doctor’s license is concerned, to one who is willing to give medical help to the less fortunate. With Sang Man’s help at Suki Clinic, and the money Halmeom left GD, she carries on the legacy of Halmeom, offering her practically ‘free’ medical services to foreign/illegal immigrants who have no health benefits.
Sang Man’s mother has changed from one who is calculating with her tenants, to one who regards GD as her additional son. Although in the end SM did not give GD his liver, SM’s mum has shifted from calling only SM to meals and charging GD for food, to calling both her boys down to feed them regularly. The love of Sang Man for GD spread even to his mother.
Joo Won who had depended on Cheongyoo’s support to become successful and big, decided to branch out on his own, small and independent, no longer at the beck and call of the construction firm. His hurt over MS’s father’s accusations against his father, has been assuaged by MS’s attitude, where she did not blame anyone for mismanagement. It was further eroded by Yoo Jin’s change in approach to her role in the company.
Yoo Jin had taken the responsibility after the human remains had been found and got the police forensic team to retrieve the bones.
Joo Won had asked YJ : “Why would you do that?”
Yoo Jin : “I can’t let you be responsible for something you didn’t do.
He saw the attitude of GD, MS and YJ who refused to compromise, and gained strength to stand firm as well.
Yoo Jin spoke to JW about the construction : “The Area B you’re in charge of is exactly the same blueprint from 13 years ago, including the structural design and floor finishing. Didn’t you think I’d know? You and I both know that there’s no problem with the design. We also know the structure isn’t built on design alone.”
JW : “Then, you’re saying, in the end, it was my father’s fault because he compromised at the site”
YJ : “No. What you were going to do. Continue on. So that my oppa does not look down on you, don’t falter.”
JW : “You should have been like this back then too.”
YJ : “I am doing this because I learned by my mistakes back then.”
Yoo Jin learned from her mistakes, and overcame her issues over being rejected by JW. She chose to become more responsible, ousting her brother for the irregularities he’d been playing at with his brother-in-law. She even offered JW a chance to continue working with her company but graciously accepted his refusal.
With GD’s friendship and advice, YJ came to accept that her love life would be difficult because she was such a high achiever, but at the same time, that she had in her, the power to do good, which she did by correcting the unfair treatment meted out to victims like GD’s father.
Episode 13 Moon Soo’s Mum – she had to thrash it out at least once and for all to face the issues she’d been burying under her self-pity and blame of others.
MS to Mum about not telling her that she worked in the place where Yun Soo died : “Didn’t you think about why I couldn’t tell you? Don’t you know how cautious I am around you?”
Mum : “When were you ever cautious around me?” …”You take after your dad. You don’t listen to me at all.” She goes back again to the original gripe she’s held over MS’s head since 12 years previously, “I told you to stay with Yun Soo…”
MS : “If I were with her, I would have been dead too. Would that have been better? Or did you wish I had died instead of Yun Soo?”
(This has been the suspicion in MS’s mind since she was 15 years old. This is probably the first time she’s ever said it out loud to Mum.)
Mum hits MS on the head : “How could you say that to your mother?”
MS : “I can’t? You say everything you want to say, Mum.”
Mum : “You bitch.”
MS : “Why am I the only bad person? You’re the one who sent us there that day. Then you should feel bad for me. Why do you keep making me feel bad?”
(At the back of that is the unspoken question of whether Mum would have been much finer than now, if it had been MS who had died, instead of YS. This was MS’s prison.)
However this seemed to have jerked Mum awake to realise what she’d been doing. She voluntarily let her husband go and checked herself into rehab for alcoholism. She probably learnt never again to blame MS for leaving YS.
Moon Soo’s Dad, once released from the marriage, and seeing that MS had GD to take care of her, decided to live life the way he wanted, on the road, driving big trucks or buses.
Episode 14 Moon Soo and Gang Doo who are self aware that they are in the prison of their own minds find one night that neither can sleep.
MS recalls that GD had said : “I also sometimes confuse myself into thinking a dead person is alive. I can hear their voice, telling me not to forget them.”
Cut to GD at home recalling what MS said : “I have dreams of Yeon Soo dying in front of me.” …”Gang Doo-ah, isn’t the phrase, ‘A prison of the self,’ strange? No one’s locked us in, but why can’t we get out?”
Moon Soo who once forgot the pain of her ordeal, became one who upon remembering, is wracked with guilt. She seeks forgiveness from Sung Jae’s mum, and has to forgive herself for forgetting GD from 12 years earlier, and forgive her Mum. GD’s unreserved acceptance of and love for her, plus his near death, bring her out of her self-imprisonment. She also gains greater confidence in her designing and architectural skills so that she can renovate her home, looking to a future with GD.
As for Gang Doo, the one who was so damaged both physically and mentally, is the one who gives comfort, friendship, support and advice. His dogged persistence to do right by his sister, and friends, and his great loving heart that put others before himself, earned him the love of many that brought about his healing. One of my favourite scenes was how so many people came forward to offer their organs for his transplant. In the end even ‘God’ stepped in for GD who had cried out to him, when a donor liver was available at the crucial moment, like a miracle.
Learning from this sweet series, may we also learn to let go, break free from unnecessary fetters, forgive ourselves and others, take the responsibility to improve ourselves, choose to do what we enjoy and love abundantly so that we will keep healing in our hands.
@GB… really moved to read these final reflections. Thank you so much for rounding off the lessons and trajectories of our characters.
I teared up at the memory of the number of people GD’s life had touched and the way so many were prepared to come forward s donors.
It has been a truly enriching re-watch!
Thank you @Kate. It was also an enriching rewatch for me, because of all of you in BOD who shared your points of view, what touched you and why. I enjoyed it so thoroughly. It was so relaxing and comfortable, hanging out here with you.
May we find another great show to rewatch and enjoy!!
See ya!
@GB, Thank you-beautifully said.