Updated: 3/3/22 I’m pinning this to the top of the blog so it’ll be easy to access for the rewatch. –pm3
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The thread is open for our rewatch of W: Two Worlds.
Growing_Beautifully, Cleopatra, Welmaris, WEnchanteur, Janey, Fern, FGB4877, and Carolina, are you ready?
Did I get the time correct, @GB?
Usual time: 14:00 UTC
09:00 am EST
06:00 am PST (you get to sleep for one more hour, Welmaris, Janey, and Carolina!)
10:00 pm Singapore, Philippines
09:00 pm Indonesia
04:00 pm Greece
03:00 pm in Paris
10:00 am in Caracas
Let’s enjoy the rewatch!
Thanks @pkml3!! This is really early.
Yes, the time is correct. You may like to add that the time would be 2:00pm in Paris and 9:00am in Caracas (I hope I got it right) since we expect to have @WEnchanteur and @FGB with us as well. 🙂
Kalimera Chingus!
@Packmule3 thank you for the post!
When I watched W, I was amazed because it reminded me an essay I gave to my Philosophy Module. I wanted to write a piece about it connecting it with W.
Maybe it is time to do so.
Done, @GB.
The UTC or Coordinated Universal Time (see even the acronym doesn’t match)confuses me so I go with the East Coast time reference:
Paris is 6 hours ahead of New York/Washington DC/the East Coast of the USA, and @FGB4877 is one hour ahead of us because of Daylight Savings. We’ll have Daylight Savings in a couple of weeks so times will change again.
True, @Cleopatra. Lots of opportunity for a discourse on philosophy with this drama. Looking forward to your perspectives. 🙂
Hey @Packmule3!
I do hope you are okay! When I watched W the first time around, I was elated.
My essay on Philosophy was to describe how the Stoics were saying about “αυτεξούσιο” i.e. if humans have free will. Are their lives self determined?
I did a comperative analysis with what the Christian Theologist John of Damascus said about it and later on in Middle Ages what the NeoPlatonic Philosopher George Gemistos Plethon said about the matter.
Basically what the viewers are witnessing in W is the following:
The whole process where the main character Kang Chul chose to become self determined and the outcome of the decision he made. Consequently his actions towards not only his “maker” but also to the world he lives in.
It is interesting, isn’t it? I haven’t seen a tv show doing that.
That’s why I was interested in the Writernin Song Jae-Jung and her work afterwards.
Correction: My essay on Philosophy was to describe WHAT the Stoics were saying about “αυτεξούσιο” i.e. if humans have free will. Are their lives self determined?
Thanks again @pkml3. You and me both. I can’t even get used to using BCE instead of BC and AD!!! LOL.
Now there’s UTC as well as of GMT? Then when there’s daylight savings, I get lost all over again. 🤪 🤔 😂
Hi there @Cleo!!! You make the rewatch of ‘W’ sound even more fun! Just because we have (or we think we have) free will, are we actually determining our lives? Might we have been just ‘drawn’ that way by our ‘Maker’? Would this be the debate once again about fate and destiny?
A lot to chew on (munch,…munch). 🤯
Hey there @GB Unnie!
It is fun. Because we get to see that he will oppose that “maker” of his.
So he creates his own destiny with the help of another, though… *winks*
I like what George Gemistos Plethon said about it. He had a whole system basically. To make it short as far as I remember what I have read:
He wanted to revive the Olympians. He was saying that Zeus was above everyone and he determines life for everyone. Human beings lets say that they have free will up to a pointm thanks to Gods.
BUT the thing that really matters is that humans have to have φρόνηση / I will translate is as wisdom in order for you to understand better. With that wisdom human beings are free because they are “καλοί και αγαθοί” i.e. good and noble.
Plethon was saying that if you are a human being and you chose to be good, then you have also chosen to be free.
A lot to chew on…indeed *grins*
P.S. I had to reread my essay in order to write it correctly for you…*winks*
LOL @Cleo, you had to re-read your essay? That’s just like me. I’m probably worse at remembering though. Can’t recall what I read yesterday!!
Thanks for giving a brief on George Gemistos Plethon’s philosophy. It gives added meat to the chewing!!
I had to rest a bit, and get back to do some work. I’ll try to read up a bit before ‘W’!!! LOL
@GB,
If I want to write something on W, I have to reread all the material of that essay and find some more. Yes, I cannot say something I don’t recall that well.
I really liked Plethon’s philosophy. It was very openminded. Stoics were the death of me, while John of Damascus was more like a mediator. He studied and encorporated what the old philosophers (like the Stoics, the Epicureans plus more) said and infused it into the Christian Dogma.
If you want to read about him : https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-John-of-Damascus
I think we are going to have fun on this one! LMAO!!!
I’m going to learn from you @Cleopatra. The parr where you said about the character opposing his maker and going on to create his own destiny reminded me of another drama: Extraordinary You
I hope to join you all or I will pop in to read and join in the discussions. When I watched W it was a total binge because we had to know what happened next. It was so fast paced and exciting…at least towards the end when it started not to make logical sense.
Hi Everyone,
I’m not watching k-dramas as much these days, but I am saving my time for this rewatch. =)
I’m in and expect to be up early this week. Yeay. Although I feel a bit out of my league. I never took philosophy so not familiar with the theories, but willing to learn and read everything you throw at me. Now I’m thinking about how to get ready for this lol
I will join this rewatch at the beginning, but if I find the antagonist as scary as I did my first time seeing this drama, I may need to bow out. @Cleopatra, maybe engaging in philosophical discussion with you will keep me from getting overwhelmed.
@Cleopatra, in Goblin when Sunny told god that she wanted control of her memories and destiny, she was claiming self determination, right? I suppose we can say that Goblin also insisted on self determination when he refused to leave the in-between world to go to his afterlife. We never did discuss what the consequences of those decisions were for these two characters. For Sunny, she quietly bore loneliness and emotional pain, having memories of people lost and times others had forgotten. For Goblin, he had a lonely wait for nine years until conditions were right and Eun Tak summoned him; his payoff was that she was able to call him back into her world, and he retained all his powers as Goblin despite the sword being removed.
I think the difference between Goblin and W with characters wanting self determination is that in Goblin, the god ended up letting the characters have their way without fighting them, but in W the creator fights hard to retain control of his character, even if that means destroying him.
Kalimera Ladies!
@Grace and @Carolina, I will explain as simply as I can, what I am writing about in order for everyone to understand. Believe me when I say I don’t know much about Philosophy as well. Yes, I have studied hard for those Modules. I chose the second Module because I loved the first.
FYI, I love specific philosophers – mostly those who have to do with Ethics or those who my Professors made me love because their tutoring was mind blowing.
On the same time, there are so many philosophers in the History of Science, I don’t know about and maybe in the future I will learn about them, If I ever do a Msc.
So, we are going to have fun and we are going to entertain ourselves with arguments that those philosophers are pondering about since the past 2.700 years and forward.
P.S. I am going to answer to @Welmaris and my answer will have SPOILERS!
So, IF you haven’t watched W before, please don’t read the following comment! Thank you!
—- SPOILERS BELOW—–
Dear @Welmaris,
We can talk anytime for philosophy or whatever matter you want and I can contribute my thoughts with!
Since you are asking me about Goblin. I am going to bring in our conversation “Doom At Your Service”. If you remember in those threads I was explaining about the system the dramaverse was built. It is the same thing with Goblin as well.
In Goblin we have a dramaverse where the system is closed and the Nabi Shin is not a belevolent God. He has humanlike traits and he is tricky and petty. So Goblin’s dramaverse is not perfect. It is rather imperfect!
Sunny was the first character from the series that claimed self determination. She protected her memories, she protected Eun Tak and she continue to remember her Oraeboni. In a way, she was the only living person who remembered her brother! The other one was Wang Yeo as a Hanza / Grim Reaper!
Kim Shin was once a human, that became a Goblin and he chose to become a Guardian God. He was claining self determination in order to help others and he continued to do so, when he went to the in between word. Even God, couldn’t help him and left.
It was Sunny who kept Kim Shin truly alive -in her memory and heart- in that in between world. Kim Shin was in there all by himself, trying to fullfil his part of the contract with Eun Tak, but her memories were erased and she couldn’t do so.
The character who is a stellar example about self determination is Eun Tak.
ET CHOSE to sacrifice herself, in order to save the children and she chose NOT to drink that tea of oblivion. In her limited life, she was a person of virtue.
—–SPOILERS——
Let’s go now to W.
In W, the dramaverse is imperfect per setting. The problem with the Antagonist arises from the following συνθήκη / condition:
The actual Creator was not Oh Sung-Moo, but his daughter Oh Yeon-Joo.
OSM is a false / imperfect “God” for Kang Chul and a human being who lent all his defects to the Kang Chul’s NEMESIS and Antagonist who became super powerful and it was Sung Moo’s doing!
I am not going to write more but this argument gives us info why things went wrong the second time around and we can discuss that fully and lengthy when the time is due!
——SPOILERS ENDED——
I watched W last year so it’s still somewhat fresh in my mind, will pop in here now and again to read your discussions. I did think there were issues with the plot (one example: as a mangaka, I find it absurd that OSM set the faceless killer as a “nobody”, i.e. someone without an identity when that character was quite important to KC’s story arc.) But overall it was was quite a refreshing theme so stuck with it till the end.
I have actually just started watching Goblin which I see the rewatch party just finished so will visit those threads when I’m done with the drama to see what I’ve missed!
Hi there @TheWanderer! You’re very welcome to come and read along or both read, write and watch along with us. It’s one of those shows where I asked ‘why?’ and ‘how’ but never got an answer.
I just noticed that the ‘W’ was meant to signify 2 questions, ‘Why?’ and ‘Who?’. I’ve added a ‘H’ for ‘How?’
Yes, we only just finished with Goblin last week. It was a lovely rewatch and great to have it with friends. Yes please feel free to post in the Goblin threads. I still get alerts and go along to read from time to time. 🙂
Spoiler about your gif. It’s the wink of…
– Do you have a boyfriend?
– No.
– That’s good.
🙂
SPOILER!!!
@TheWanderer,
That’s what makes W so good! Oh Sung-Moo is not a good writer, his scripts are pretty bad. And so he explains it in episode 5 during the confrontation with Kang Chul. He didn’t need to bother with giving an identity to the killer. On one hand because he is a bad and lazy writer, and on the other hand because of his plot. He didn’t intend to make the killer real, since it was just a plot device to motivate Kang Chul in the story. The hero was forced to chase a chimera. Kang Chul talks about it again in episode 8, while typing his report (a scene I love meta-wise).
W is one of the first Kdramas I watched and I was amazed at what stories and settings they can do. The plot is very interesting and I like the graphics part also. I will enjoy watching this with BoD lenses this time around as well as the philosophy discussions, too!!! Looking forward to this weekend it with you chingus!!!
Hi @GB thank you for the invite to join the rewatch! As much as I’d love to, I’ve just recently taken up part time study so will need to allocate weekends to catch up with the coursework. Hardly get time (nor the motivation) with full time work during the week and to watch some dramas too of course 😉
@WEnchanteur, I do recall you’re a big fan of W, given you have KC as your avatar 🙂 Thanks for further explaining, I suppose all the fans will be thoroughly disappointed if OSM penned it as intended (i.e. KC just died by suicide, the killer was a chimera), but that’s besides the point. I’m looking forward to reading more of the theories!
I’ll pin this thread to the top of the blog so it won’t sink down when I add more posts.
Thanks for thinking of us/this thread @pkml3!
@The Wanderer, I know how you feel. I’m also sort of in the same boat, just that my course days are spread out, and so it’s not so stressful, but one does such a lot of thinking for work already, that one doesn’t want to think some more after work for study 🤓 😩 😅
@GB Another small reason is I can’t seem to multitask by watching several dramas concurrently these days, I’ll probably forget things in between (same reason why I prefer to watch after a drama finish airing).
Out of curiosity, how does the rewatch party work? Does everyone jump on a link to watch at the same time, or watch separately and just comment in threads?
@The Wanderer, it’s the 2nd way. We just stream or watch however we can at the same time and we come to this 1 thread to comment as we watch. We get to read and reply to each other while watching. So it does require multi-tasking if you wish to read and reply, but if you just want to watch and comment, that’s fine too.
I like that we get to ask each other questions and may get answers on the spot. And the insights of others are always enlightening. 🙂
@Wanderer,
W takes classic situations from any writer. As you have seen on TV many times (here with a manhwa creator):
– A writer who creates plot-twists but for no reason. And so it becomes a plot-hole.
– A writer who creates without thinking about any development a plot device, just so that his story has no end and the hero has a motivation.
And then, all this is projected in the logic of the high concept. So that gives… what if the hero is smarter than the author and sees the plot holes. What happens if the villain sees that he was never defined.
Which makes the drama great because incredible plot-twists can happen, with a reason behind it, reason based on the manhwa author’s lack of reason. And as all this happens at an amazing speed, we hardly have time to think when we watch it the first time.
At first, you have the elements to grasp the logic. And then it depends on the people. Those who are lost will not understand from episode 5, or 8. From episode 9 on, it is certain that it gets harder because SJJ provides less elements of understanding, or else at such a fast pace that one can easily miss the scene, or not have the time to understand. We understand it thanks to the logic of the concept, but for that, we should have the time to think. But thinking is difficult in front of a drama which is a wild horse at gallop. So, the logic of things will be explained during the rewatch.
As for the last two episodes, clearly, SJJ should have brought more explanations. But then, in Memories of the Alhambra she was also minimalist in that respect. It’s a choice. Either maintain a mystery and the unknown at the end, or be more explicit. Both are good. Personally, I prefer to explain more, like Japanese anime/dramas do. However, if you watch the drama again, and have the logic of the concept, you can understand what is going on.
Finally, this kind of trip “mind blowing”, “fast paced”, “high concept with far logic”, “plot-twists”, “deep content”, it’s up to the audience.
Someone who doesn’t like this kind of thing, or prefers a more classical drama will have difficulties to appreciate it, and will drop out in the second half.
For people who are already in this trip since almost forever, it’s pure genius. Of course, I’m in that case. I’ve always been fascinated by these psycho-intellectual stories, like Death Note, Japanese Liar Game, Kaiji, Sherlock Holmes, etc. With W, it’s the ultimate expression of those kinds of stories. So… It’s love at first sight for the artwork from the first watch, and afterwards, a great pleasure to watch it again regularly.
Dear Chingus, how have you been?.
At this moment I am a little bit more distracted than usual, but please let me come and go as needed.
That said, I will watch this episode with you 😀 .
Hi @FGB, glad you’re with us today. Feel free to come and go, but please leave us a note now and then, so we know you’re OK. 🙂
A genius shooter at 17 and only 3 years shooting. Let’s see how it pans out.
We’re starting in 50 minutes time!
Have you watched this show before @FGB?
@GB, no, first time watching it. 50 minutes to go… EEEEEEHHHHH!!!!????
* At the moment of my writing it is 9:14 am. Sometimes I forget that we have no Daylight Saving all year round. We never have to change our clocks as we are a little bit North to the Equator. For me it is just natural.
^_^U
Anyway, I am so sluggish in my watch that maybe if I start now maybe I end up and arrive on time to discuss Episode 1 ending with all of you XD XD XD XD XD XD .
@FGB, first time watching! Then if you haven’t gotten spoiled, it will be an interesting ride for you, I hope!! Show felt rather ahead of it’s time at that time 2in 016.
Hi! How are you FGB? If I remember well, we come from the same place?
Du même endroit…
If it’s your first watch, just an advice… Don’t read here before the end. Not only because of spoilers, but this drama need a lot of attention. Many details to get the story.
*in 2016.*
I watched this series more or less half way, got fed up with some of the logic and sort of came back to watch the end.
@WE, what do you mean you and @FGB are from the same place? You mean geographically or something else?
Dear @WEnchanteur, we come from the same spiritual place but I am Venezuelan. Anyway the fact that you remember me in that way makes me really happy ^_^ . How are things going in France? 😀 .
With you I almost expect an insider’s look into the script. Looking Forward to it!!! 😉
Ooops sorry, I make a mistake, interverting two alias.
And of course, Hi GB tooooooo!!!
Hi @WE, you’re early! 24 minutes to go!!!
I actually had to refresh my memory by doing a rewatch before today. I still feel I’m perhaps missing some details.
Kalo mesimeri everyone!
I am kinda here too…
@FGB good to see you online chingu!
@GB Unnie how are you!
@WE, at the moment we are the only ones online from Europe 🙂
Hi @Cleo, I’m great, but sleepy. I was hoping to take a nap but somehow ran out of time. I’ll manage somehow LOL.
Hey @GB!
I wanted to take a nap as well, but I read a book instead. We shall see how this will go! LOL
Hi Cleo.
@GB, yeah I’m currently at page 31 of Alien Surgeon episode 1. With situations I could say are… “Anti Hospital Playlist” style!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
So, as I’m writing on the computer, it’s easy to be here in time. 😉
@Cleo, I was wondering if something of the Frankenstein and/or the Pygmalion complex (if that’s the right term) can be used to help us understand the characters in this show.
Might there be a comment about the ‘false’ creator who does not care for his creation, and the ‘true’ creator who falls in love with her creation?
@GB,
We need to further discuss it. I have to think about it though first.
Yes. There might be a comment on your question! We should take into consideration that the “true” creator seems to have forgotten about her creation though.
While the “false” creator hasn’t. He loathes his creation and he doesn’t care about him!
OK… Everyone, it’s about time. I have to answer a message on my phone… but let’s begin!!!
I’ll do like Oh Sung-Moo and take a glass of whisky here.
Are you ready? Or it miss some people maybe?
@WE, we start now!!! When the others can, they’ll join in. 🙂
Ok let’s go!! It’s past one minute now.
Wooooo, it’s about more than one year I didn’t rewatch it.
It’s so good from the start, I feel like Im coming back home, just with the little music during journalist presentation.
Yes!! Here
I’m here! Attendances checked… I’ll be slow today since my TV casting is not working so I can only use my phone to switch from Watching to writing and vise versa. Enjoy!!!
I really can rewatch this drama any number of times. The magic never fade.
@WE,
We just started!
We get to see the Olympics that were held in Athens in 2004 and in reality a Korean female athlete Lee BoNa indeed won a bronze Olympic Metal in shooting.
Hi Janey & Carolina.
Kang chul missed the shot.
Hey @Carolina and @Janey!
Good to have you on board!
Kang Chul is amazing… in that last 10 seconds!
I’m here, but still getting my act together. I’ll join a few minutes late. Last night was rough, as I’m at my mountain cabin and in the midst of a winter storm. I was woken from sleep at 2 a.m. by a loud thump, followed by more bumps, so I bundled up and went outside with a flashlight to inspect my roof. During an ice storm over the Christmas holiday I had several branches of an oak tree come down on my roof and a couple of pine tree tops snap off and land on my back deck. Repairs from that damage are almost done, and I don’t want more! I couldn’t see much through the swirl of snow and fog, but at least from inside I don’t see anything breaching my roof.
@Cleo, congrats, you remember some details coming later.
Ep7 beginning to be precise.
Dear @WEnchanteur, no problem as I am very found of our @GB Unnie too 😉 . If I were not the “other one” with a similar name I would be confused too XD .
BTW how are you dear @GB? 😀
Kalimera @Cleo!!!.
Another thing, I am the kind of guy that enjoys both the suspense of not knowing what is going to happen and also the comfort of knowing that everything will be all right.
So please don’t mind me, spoil as much as you want, and consider me as a tourist in this Drama while you are my graceful hosts 😀 .
I forgot to mention before that Lee Bo Na got two olympic medals in Athens Olympics ! One was bronze and the other a silver.
Hi @Janey and @Carolina!
Wow I liked how the gun was aimed right at us and came in focus for the shot. He was gunning right at us!! A score of 10.9 is amazing.
@FGB, just watch, and come back after the episode. 😉
We will still be here. You need to concentrate on this!!!!!!!
@WE,
Yes I do. Because I liked how the Writernim built her story. You like your scripts, I like my short stories / novels. ! *winks*
W, of course the script is king. But anyone did a so good job on this. Motivated by the script. Director Jung Dae Yoon made a crazy good job. Just compare the script and how he made it live.
Here one of the so numerous montage of the drama, accelerating even more the fast pace. So crazy. Faster than fast.
Hola @Carolina, hi @Janey, how are you? 🙂
We are now being introduced to Kang Chul’s story. We get to see his rise and fame, but also his “downfall”. He was accused wrongly. We also get to see who the killer and antagonist is, but also the Prosecutor who is also another antagonist…
With the suspens “something go wrong” background music. With panic alarm feel. To say, we don’t know why and how, but we have to run!!
@FGB, I’m fine. It’s pretty warm and humid tonight. I’m thinking of turning on the aircondition.
I heartily dislike this prosecutor who’s interrogating Kang Chul.
I wonder who this ahjusshi is who’s visiting Kang Chul. I don’t recall that we see him again after this scene.
@GB,
The Ahjussi who is visiting Kang Chul is his Samcheon.
We get to see him later on and he is working for him on his Channel investingating for his family’s killer.
The Prosecutor played Kim Go Eun’s father on TKEM!
@GB, he’s a guy we see often. Friend of Kang Chul father, and I will direct the W TV investigation program. Also a kind of mentor and friend of Kang Chul who always speak a lot to him about his life.
@WE, yes the music suggests that we should all be stressed along with poor Kang Chul.
And then we suddenly cut to the hospital scene and Mad Dog. LOL. A different kind of stress with Yeon Joo.
I love Han Hyo Joo! She is amazing here….LMAO!
Running towards her Professor aka The Mad Dog!
The running scene is a bit too long. As for the goal, see Nurse Kim, hospital, and reveal Yeon Joo character. A kind of Alice in wonderland, running before thinking. Even she’s very smart. So a head in the sky girl. Even don’t think the prof is just where is supposed to be, in the office. She think before about more place… logic of comics.
And we know learn that Kang Chul’s world is a world inside a comic book!
Meeting with prof Park is just crazy good exposition in a comedy scene.
I can’t stand that Mad Dog was calling Yeon Joo over getting spoilers for ‘W’. Show has several characters that just get my goat!!
I really really like Park Su Bong! He makes me laugh so much!
@GB, the spoiler demand is plot oriented, because we see in the last episode, prof Park is afraid to get a spoiler. 😉
I think it doesn’t matter as a small hole. Plot is more important here.
Yeon Joo learns that her father has vanished into thin air, while they are on deadline for the last episode of W!
@GB, you can see the chubby girl Yeon Hee here. I use her a lot in my season 2 script. 😉
Hola @FGB,
Hi @Janey, @WE, @GB, @Cleo
Hi @Welmaris, hope you are ok.
I’m so happy to be here. I’m a bit behind on the watch. Watching Kang Chul getting capital punishment. I think I had a hard time watching this at the beginning because I felt the Kang Chul was so wronged by the prosecutor.
LOL “Traces of Drool”
Woooo love this scene, we see the manwha poster with the sideral music. It’s a scene coming after in the script, but the director put it here at a better moment.
@Cleo, yes, professor Sung Moo disparition is one of the big hook of the episode, with “key of my life”, and global unknow phenomena. 3 big hook in a single first episode. It’s a much W is great.
@WE,
True. That little phrase changed everything. The thing is that we are going to see that the creation will suck in his creator…
That is the first huge step, accompanied by the phrase “key of my life”…
Additional secondary hook: why Oh sung moo wan’t to kill Kang Chul. But a bit of answer with “I prefer to eat him before he eat me”.
I forgot to mention that these two thing I mentioned above and @WE wrote about the phrase are the first self determination signs of Kang Chul!
Kang Chul (KC) winning gold at the Olympics!!! You will not have an idea that he is a webtoon character until the Prof mentions him to Han Hyo Joo who is the daughter of the webtoon artist. I can’t remember if I picked up this tidbit this early on my first watch.
Here we also see how a script is well made. When characters speak about the situation, we get a lot of flashback. So it’s not only character speaking about something else, we see it. Just a bad commentary from me about what we get in endless speaking of HP, a so bad script.
@WE,
I don’t think that Kang Chul was going to eat the jakkanim Sung Moo.
The killer could do that…
Here is the part we were waiting for! Kang Chul first self determination act to save himself!
So Yeon-Joo “Alice” come into W “Wonderland”.
@Cleo and @WE Yes, this Episode 1 had too many hooks. I was asking why the whole time long.
LOL Yeon Joo and Soo Bong think of ‘Misery’ as an eg. of what might have happened.
So Dad was trying to eat before being eaten by his work… but why should he feel that the work could eat him? What was it that made ‘W’ alive and able to reach through the drawing tablet?
@Clea, of course, but Sung-Moo think that. Well, years of psychological torture with this crazy living manhwa.
@GB,
I think this has to do with a concept the writers / creators face. They are so focused into something in order to finish it, that they are afraid to be eaten by it. That’s why they want to finish a book let’s say and try something else…
Of Course for our jakkanim that is something else entirely…
@Cleo, no I didn’t mean that KC would eat Sung Moo, but why he should think so.
The reccuring joke “in drama we can do it” or something like that. Many drama have this kind of meta joke.
Only Yeon Joo could save Kang Chul. He pulled her inside his world.
@WE of course he could see it that way. He didn’t love his creation, because it was not his in the first place!
Now, the background “key of life”, one of the best, when Yeon Joo feel something is wrong. A feeling a flying in the distance, in another and distance space or dimension. A kind of errance, in the mind or real.
@WE
Are you saying the Dad knew he was a living character prior to killing Kang Chul? Or just the fact that he was writing for so many years he became like that?
@GB I have the same questions
When you see for the first time, that your “crush” is a living person…
Sign: To Be Continued!
Finaly, one of the moment I knew this drama was huge… the characters “to be continued” print on reality. Goosebump!!!
@GB and @Carolina,
I wrote above about it!
And now… goosebump piano music. AAAAAAAAAAH
“Saturno devorando a su hijo” (Saturn devouring his child) by Goya. Her father must has been frustrated by being stuck with a successful character for so long.
Here in Latin America we had Quino in Argentina who made the classical “Mafalda” comic strip (still a classic, he struck gold with the archetypes his “child” characters represented) and he killed the character to be free to make other strips. His later work was not as successful – they were very experimental -but he was free to reinvent himself.
I like the transitions here of present to past (showing dad and assistant working overtime). Camera work is very good in this show. The Olympics drew your eyes to the gun – and it was the weapon used to kill the family. This scene draws you to the drawing pad. Which we know will play a role as portal later.
@WE,
I remembered that I watched at least 5 or 6 episodes the first time I watched it because I couldn’t stop watching it! LMAO!
@Carolina, you will see it, episode 3 big 8-minutes montage and episode 5. We know all about sung-moo here.
Very good moment of the episode too, when Yeon Joo read the manhwa, with montage real/images. At the last frame… it’s me.
@FGB,
True. When you are working on something for so long can be burdensome.
Imagine to love it at first, it can make you feel frustrated.
The thing is that her father didn’t love him as a character…
@FGB I love Mafalda!! She was my hero growing up lol
I did not know that bit of info about Quino and Mafalda.
Thanks for the answers @Cleo
Kang Chul life montage. In Episode 2 in the script, but clerverly put here. Was needed in episode 1 really. The script is 17 episodes, so episode 1-9 was put in 1-8 in the drama. With cliffhanger changes. So better than in the script, and some not so good.
On of the part of this montage is a it too long. In the script, there is more line. But not best one at the end, was cut. Still, it was ok too keep it and shorten too long shot of the montage.
You are welcome @Carolina!
@We putting this Kang Chul’s life montage it is clever indeed.
We – the viewers- know what we are watching from Episode 1!
@WE, I found it strange to have a montage in Ep one to recap when we had already just watched the happenings in KS’s life.
@Cleo, first time I watched, I was a bit lost about who is Kang Chul, so this montage helped me a lot. We have also difficulties to know it in the drama, about narrator voice, but it’s Yeon Joo speaking.
Flash freeze… the picture I choosen for my pseudo.
ahahahaha
First plot hole of manga: What was Kang Chul’s motive for killing his whole family? He appeared to love his father, so why would he kill him and the rest of his family? Was his desire to leave behind his sport career and pursue engineering, to become independent of his father’s influence, enough of a reason to murder his whole family in cold blood?
The fact that all the entry wounds are centered in the victims’ foreheads gives a clue that this is an idealized crime. The prosecutor having political ambitions he wants to further by convicting Kang Chul; rather than properly investigating the crime, he assumes Kang Chul’s guilt. Kang Chul can’t even properly grieve the loss of his family, being considered a monster if he shows tears. The prosecutor doesn’t want to just punish Kang Chul for this crime, but wants to make an example of him, so requests the maximum sentence: capital punishment (the death sentence).
Another clue that this isn’t a series of events happening in real life is that the courtroom spectators aren’t kept quiet by the judges.
@We,
I was elated. I realized it when he pulled her in. I know it was Yeon Joo – Han Hyo Joo’s voice is dinsticive!
“I think that woman holds the key to my life.”
We also get a glimpse of his bodyguard – Lee Tae Hwan.
@GB, it’s a good anticipation of audience understanding. I didn’t make the link of Kang Chul first scene and Kang Chul CEO on the roof. I missed a bit of understanding with Prof Park and everywhere. Drama is a bit too fast, hard to follow. So a bit of redudancy was good for me.
Had a funny glitch that enhanced the show for me: just as the girl reads the ominous remark on the backside of “Saturn devouring his Son” the stream collapsed and looped to the very beginning of the episode! 😀 .
Now she has been dragged into the other world she recovers consciousness in a rooftop.
I liked that he got himself off the bridge and we see the long, dark, empty path ahead of him that he has to walk.
Just popping in for now.
There are three introductions here in this episode:
Kang Chul: we get the meaning of “W” for him. He wants to know WHO killed his family and WHY his family was killed. This backstory would become the reason for his continued existence in the comic world because he’s seeking for the answers.
This is also where the plot can take on a philosophical bent because as human beings, we too are like Kang Chul, wondering WHO we are, and WHY we live/suffer/survive/exist as we do.
Yeon Joo: we get the meaning of “W” for her. She’s dragged into WONDERLAND which her father created for her, out of her own imaginary world.
It’s noteworthy that in her conversation with Mad Dog, she blurted out that she found Kang Chul “sexy.” Meaning, she fantasizes about a cartoon character, an imaginary person.
And their meeting: we can derive another meaning of “W” — they have a WINNING combination. 😂
Okay. I can’t write long in the car. I get car sick. And I can’t dictate either because hubby will wonder what I’m talking about. 🥷🏻
@Clea, yeah, Lee Tae Hwan. I used this guy in season 2.
As a support character, in W, he’s not developped for an obvious reason. Avoid to goes out of the main plot. Many people disliked that without understand that it would make a bad story spread everywhere.
Here good comedy scene with prof Park.
Kang Chul: “The reason for my existence. I think she is the reason to find the reason for my existence.”
What I really liked on W, is that the manwha world, life continues to move on as well. A life that is not depicted anymore by the jakkanim Oh Sung Moo.
AWWW I have to go =( Big day for my first one – opening day. Whole day event. Excited since it’s kinda the first big thing after 2 years
This rewatch was so good. Thanks everyone!!
I have to go back to read you all again.
This is definitely one that needs pre watch to prewatch lol. I dont remember much about this one, so I was confused just like the first time =)
You guys rock!!
Well made cliffhanger… She speak to the manhwa character, and he look at her. Like that in the script.
So KC is written to have fantastic instincts. He just guesses that YJ is the key to his life, the reason for his existence.
It was a little too pat for me.
Also the fact that this manhwa is alive on its own … and not aware that they are not real… what was it about this work that enabled them to be this way?
This was not answered.
When recently watching Happiness, and being impressed by the actress playing the female lead, I didn’t put together that she’s also the lead actress in W. On top of that, last night I watched on Netflix the recently released film Pirates: The Last Royal Treasure. Han Hyo Joo is believable and fun to watch as a badass.
@Carolina have a nice day ahead! Congratz to your first one!
LOL @pkml3
I think you’ve answered one of my questions somehow. The self determination of these characters was probably because of YJ and how she made at least the ‘sexy’ KC ‘real’ for herself in her fantasy.
I wrote very badly here, many word cut.
About structure of exposition here we get some big situations like that:
– Kang Chul (parent murder etc)
– Yeon Joo (+a bit of Kang Chul when he look at her after being saved.)
– Kang Chul (montage + hospital)
– Yeon Joo.
It mean:
– Most of the time, we can just follow one character, what make it easy, instead to split scene of random characters everywhere. Also, but maybe it’s just me. I tend to like to follow one character only for a long time. (with some other flashback or thing like that, doesn’t matter).
– Also, no support character is introduced alone. Always with a main character, making them natural to get.
– Think about a drama like TKEM not doing this, and we get an idea of what problems it can make. And why sometimes, it’s better to not develop too much support characters.
@GB,
I guess that he is drawn to her instinctively because she is ‘the key of his existence.”
That’s why I was elated the first time around. Their world started to work on their own. That means that Kang Chul’s self determination only affected him, but also W’s world.
Hey @Welmaris! Good to read you!
@Packmule3,
I really liked your comment on what W means to Kang Chul and Yeon Joo!
I am still at 31:50. Will have a nap and come back later.
BTW, hello @PM3!!!, happy to read you and thanks for giving us this rewatch post!!! 😀
Welmaris,
I like Han Hyo-Joo.
At first glance, she looks like a more plebeian-looking Song HyeKyo, but she’s more versatile.
Song HyeKyo, to me, takes on roles where she’s a delicate flower mooning over a guy or pining over a guy or chasing after younger guy. 😈 But Han HyoJoo can play an independent feisty woman.
I like her.
I think that time passed by really fast! LMAO!
Hi there, FGB4877,
No arepa 🫓 today?
My pleasure!
Bye @Carolina! See you next week!
@Cleo, yes I find it amazing that the manhwa world continues on its day to day life without the input of the artist!!
What I like about it, is that it’s an analogy for us. As briefly mentioned by @pkml3, are we aware of what we are and if we are created, who our creator is?
Knowing it, does that automatically mean we are in good/bad relationship with that creator or not in any relationship at all?
Dear @PM3, no arepa today as I had Mjadra (one pot lentils and rice with caramelized onions) leftovers 😉 . ¿How are you? ^w^
Some benchmarks and important information established:
Kang Chul won his gold medal in men’s 50m pistol at the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens. At the time he was a junior in high school, 17 years old.
Thirty-three issues of the manga W had been published by Oh Seong Moo when we meet his daughter, Oh Yeon Joo. She lives with her mother, because her parents are divorced. The webtoon is ending the week we meet her.
The real culprit in W is still not revealed after 33 issues of the manga and the webtoon is one week from completion.
“There are no two ways with her father [Oh Seong Moo].” This comment was made by OYJ’s colleague. She agrees.
Oh Yeon Joo is studying to be a heart surgeon.
Even though she doesn’t live with her father, he’s #1 speed dial on Oh Yeon Joo’s phone. She sees him from time to time. She’s also on familiar terms with her father’s staff, especially Park Soo Bong, who calls her Noona.
@GB,
It is like the story and the world are writing their own “To Be Continued”!
I think on your question that @PAckmule3 put, some of us are aware, others not. Some don’t even want to think about it.
I was reading the book I mentioned before and it said something about Faith. I think suits here. There is not one answer. We can say that those who believe in God or an ultimate power in the Universe might have a relationship with the creator. Those who don’t believe, but lead a ethical life, might as well. It depends on how we live and why.
Bye folks, thanks for a great rewatch! I’m skipping over to 25, 21!!!
Yes, GB, the “you’re the key to my life” is 🤨.
In real life, i.e., to YeonJoo, his comment would sound odd and glib.
But in the comic world, that would just standard fare. Comics are known for clichés. They aren’t introspective or in-depth, i.e., each frame in the cartoon strip has to show an action. So he was acting and speaking according to his nature as a cartoon character.
Plus his spoken words have to fit in the “speech balloons” because this scene in real-life is depicted as cartoon in the manhwa.
It’s funny however because his statement also has a philosophical underpinnings. 🙂
@Welmaris. Yeah, Yeon-Joo is a manhwa addict. We get that a bit in next episode but not so much because the script was cut in a scene. But when her parent divorced, she go with her mother. And her mother wan’t for her a annopropriate job, medecine/surgery. When Yeon-Joo was better made to be artistic, drawer. So of course with her kind of attitude, always the mind in the sky, she’s a quite bad doctor. Many audience made critics about that, pointing this like a plot hole, when we get the full portray of the character and the reason why it’s like that. Yeon-Joo is definitely more close to her father than a mother. Even if it’s a guy hard to live. And Soo-Bong (we get that in episode 2 also) is a disciple of Sung-Moo, and admire him beyond limits. He consider himself to know him better than Yeon-Joo. A good family feeling in all this, even if it’s weird or cringe.
@Pm3, I knew you could introduce things I didn’t get about W. ahah. Yeah, well see about the replica to have to be in a comics bubble.
I have to go for now!
Read you laters!
I got so Immersed with the show as if It’s my first time watching it again that I missed to comment. This is the problem with webtoons, it can get famous and goes on forever and here, it literally takes a life of its own. But it seems like KC never found out the answer to his W’s (as @PM3 pointed out). Until now, he has found key to his life – with this new character who saved his life.
Will come back later and read the rest. Cheers and happy weekend dear rewatched chingus @WE, @Cleo, @GB, @FGB, @Carolina, @PM3 !!!
Now off to 25/21 ep7
Oh Seong Moo’s disappearance is unusual. He’s never before missed a deadline. His phone, wallet, and car keys are still at his office. He and the staff were all in the office together working through the night, and they didn’t see him leave his room, yet he’s not in it. He was at his desk working just after 9pm; he asked that coffee be brought to him at 10pm.
Oh Seong Moo was working on the last issue of W. He’d worked on the series for 10 years. According to his assistant, Park Soo Bong, he was sick and tired of the series and wanted to kill off the main character. OSM told PSB that he was going to kill Kang Cheol in the last scene.
Oh Yeon Joo calls him “my” Kang Cheol.
Even though his staff voiced their opposition to Kang Cheol being killed off, OSM was persistent. “He said he’d kill him no matter what. In a gruesome way at that. That–that–was his life’s wish!” He was determined. He was smiling as he drew the bleeding, dying Kang Cheol. “He was seriously enjoying it!”
According to PSB, the real culprit would not be revealed by the end of the W manga series.
The suspected killer of Kang Cheol, and possibly the real culprit behind the deaths of Kang Cheol’s family, appears as a shadowy figure in one of OSM’s final drawings.
The illustration print OYJ finds on her father’s desk is Saturn Devouring his Son by Spanish artist Francisco Goya. According to Wikipedia, “…it depicts the Greek myth of the Titan Cronus (in the title Romanized to Saturn), who, fearing that he would be overthrown by one of his children, ate each one upon their birth.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son#:~:text=Saturn%20Devouring%20His%20Son%20is,each%20one%20upon%20their%20birth.
On the back of the print of the painting, OSM had written, “I’d rather eat…than be eaten.” OSM sees himself as Saturn, and Kang Cheol as his son who must be destroyed to prevent his overpowering his father. Even though Kang Cheol is a manhwa character, this intense focus on killing him shows that OSM is leaning toward psychpathy.
Bye everyone. I leave for now and come back later.
I notice that in OSM’s office, on the windows behind his desk, there are many prints taped up that look like head shots of Kang Cheol. They may have been used as reference during drawing the manhwa. But also taped on the window next to those are many head shots of a female. We haven’t yet clearly seen that character, but could she be based on OYJ? If so, that could be why KC reached out to her through the screen, because he recognized her.
Whatever the reason, KC pulled OYJ into his world at his time of need, believing she could help him, which she did. Even though OYJ lacks confidence in her skill as a doctor and surgeon, she acted quickly (like in a drama, OYJ said). She diagnosed the problem and responded properly to control it, saving Kang Cheol’s life. Once KC was taken away by the ambulance crew, OYJ saw the Hangul appear before her reading “to be continued.” Then she was back in her father’s office. The drawing of the bloody, dying Kang Cheol was still on the screen. She tapped it, but nothing happened. But then PSB comes in to announce that the manhwa ending (Chapter 325) has just been uploaded, and Kang Cheol is alive after all.
OYJ looks through the just-uploaded Chapter 325 and sees depicted there everything she’d just experienced. She sees herself as a character in the manhwa: a female doctor with her name, Oh Yeon Joo.
I’ve finished watching, and have written some notes that I’ll transcribe here later, after reading everyone else’s comments. I also need to get more rest after an interrupted night’s sleep. Until later…
@Welmaris, yes some details, like the drawing on the windows.
Now I think you know it, the woman is Yeon Soo-Hee, secretary and friend of Kang Chul since chillhood, and probably… the woman loving him.
Finished the episode. I am intrigued. So far the episode had a good hook and piqued my interest.
Will read you properly later!
@WEnchanteur, what whiskey do you prefer to drink? I don’t have a favorite, because I like to try a variety. If I’m traveling and have the chance to taste something from a local distillery, I’ll usually do that rather than ordering a mass-produced brand.
@Welmaris,
I prefer peated whisky, which are rough to the taste, with a woody and earthy sensation, and no sweetness. So pure malt “Islay”. However, they are expensive in my country. In the first price, there are only blended unfortunately. The only interesting one is the Johnny Walker Red Label, or Black Label if you pay a bit more.
This is indeed an important topic, because when you see Oh Sung-Moo with a glass of whiskey in his hand all the time, it often makes you want to drink one while watching W. 😉
I had no chance to watch with you, but I have enjoyed the comments.
I know I’m showing my age, but the hand coming out of the computer screen reminded me of the MV by Aha – ‘Take On Me’ It made me wonder if it could have been a leaping off point for the author.
@Fern, I believe I read exactly that about ‘W’… someone in the production team saw the ‘Take On Me’ video and it inspired the way we see Yeon Joo get pulled into the manhwa world.
It was a really innovative and beautifully done MV at the time. Wikipedia says:
The video used a pencil-sketch animation/live-action combination called rotoscoping, in which individual frames of film are drawn over or coloured.[21] It became one of the most instantly recognizable and most enduringly popular music videos in the US, where it was nominated for eight awards at the third annual MTV Video Awards in 1986, winning six, including Best New Artist in a Video, Best Concept Video, Best Direction, Best Special Effects, and Viewer’s Choice and Best Video of the Year. Their six MTV Award wins for that video gave them twice as many wins as Michael Jackson’s “Thriller” and more than any artist in the three years of the awards combined.
Thanks for the info @Fern. You inspired me to go look up the video and the band. I watched the YT videos on the history of the song and the MV. The number of people who were involved, more or less because they were brought in by friends and the amount of work that went into that video were astounding.