The thread is now open.
gifs from love-maybe’s tumblr.
I like the pre- and post-worshipping juxtaposition that the creator did with her gifs.
Let’s enjoy the show!
51 Comments On “My Liberation Notes: Eps 11 & 12 Open Thread”
Comments are closed.
The thread is now open.
gifs from love-maybe’s tumblr.
I like the pre- and post-worshipping juxtaposition that the creator did with her gifs.
Let’s enjoy the show!
Comments are closed.
Thank you very much, @packmule3. I don’t recall the scene of the child sitting on the same temple steps. I like those GIFs, too.
Gosh, I just heard that it’s Eurovision tonight and that’s an annual family yell-at-the-TV event. I shall have to see if I can watch ahead of that. If not, it will have to wait until tomorrow.
@Fern, that scene of the child sitting on the temple steps is a photo of MJ that is on the wall of the family dining room. Mama discussed it with Gu, which is what motivated Gu to take MJ there.
Even in the USA, where Eurovision wasn’t officially streamed until 2021, there are rabid fans of the show. Now we can get the semi-finals and finals on demand. For me, in Pacific Time, today’s coverage starts at 11am. I’m not sure we have a membership to the service that bought the rights to stream it, so I might not be able to watch in real time.
Dear @Welmaris, in adopted British fashion, I watch the event as the rest of the family does: to scoff at the OTT outfits, music and political voting. (You are not allowed to vote for your own country from within its borders, so you vote for your neighbours or those who are politically close to you.) We had a legendary announcer for years, Terry Wogan (RIP), who had a sonorous Irish voice that contrasted with his wickedly sly and juicy style of ‘appreciating’ the participants. He was very appreciated by the Brits, but very disliked by most other countries to the extent that we still usually come in last regardless of the talent of our musical number.
Every now and then, in the heap of indigestible offerings there is a true diamond or two and we live for that.
Hmm. I don’t know what to make of many things. At least one thing is for sure by now. This show is not My Ajusshi 2 and I had set my expectations too high. That only set me up for more confusion if not disappointment yet.
From the beginning I didn’t want the leads to get romantic. I thought their worshipping would be more believable if it was completely platonic. But maybe it was inevitable now. I feel that again is hinting at how someone’s care and love can solve years of depression and that’s hard to buy in Mi Jung’s case. As always I’m confused what’s really changing Mr Gu. Is it him selflessly caring for MJ? Because as much as we’ve seen he’s the only one worshipping but not being worshipped till now. While they are showing huge changes in him, there is no basis for why that’s happening. For MJ at least they are showing the process.
Then there’s Gi Jung. I’m totally not onboard her relationship with Tae hoon. And that’s not only because of his sister, she is a huge reason for why they shouldn’t be together but mainly how GJ is completely ignoring that he and his daughter come together. She only thinks of TH, is in bad terms with her daughter and TH too isn’t on good terms with his daughter. This is just a recipe for disaster. Essentially GJ is a very relatable character but her tiredness from life also goes away the instant she falls in love. Umm idk how that works.
Change Hee, I think he’s the only one who should get into a relationship with Hyuna. And well their relationship is completely platonic. That is fine with me too but these two are the only ones that make a sensible couple though yes CH is not a Seoulite, Hyuna is. No matter how much he wants to leave Sanpo, he fits there and Hyuna fits in Seoul. That’s the clash between the two.
With as expensive a car as a Rolls-Royce, every time it is driven out of the garage, the value goes down. Gu must not care, as it seems he loaned it to CH without restriction. And CH is even driving it on rough, dusty country roads. He sure is milking the experience! At least he’s being honest about the car’s ownership.
I infer that MJ learned Gu was rich through CH showing up with the car. MJ is trying to process this new information, but older sis wastes no time trying to take advantage of the situation.
“The weaker you are, the more evil you get. That’s why evil people…have a pitiful side to them.” This sums up Gu’s view of Bark, I imagine. In Ep. 10 Baek was affronted that Gu talked down to him, but Gu probably did it because he finds Baek pitiful.
Talking about her loathsome supervisor, MJ says, “He may be somebody at work, but he’s a nobody outside.” In contrast, Gu abandoned all the trappings from his powerful previous life, yet he’s earned respect from the community in which he now lives.
“I’ve never…felt better after getting angry. It would take me two to three days to forget about it if I didn’t get angry, but if I get angry, it lasts more than ten days.” People suffer when suppressing emotions. MJ feels better because Gu listens without being critical: he’s supportive without being judgmental. She’s allowed to talk about her emotions, which diffuses them.
Gu seems to have the same issues when he suppresses anger. He told Baek he couldn’t sleep for days because their previous conversation had made him angry, Baek having accused him of putting on a show, acting broken.
Anger seems to be a running theme in this episode:
–MJ because of her boss
–Gu because of Baek
–Unknown woman because of money taken by HA
–GJ’s boss because his current girlfriend is holding back in their relationship.
–TH because of his meddling sister
–GS because she disapproves of her brother dating TH
What’s going on with Hyeon A? Who is the nasty woman? And the guy in the hospital? I don’t remember anything about them from previous episodes.
Another theme that runs through this episode is wish fulfillment.
MJ is worshipped by Gu. She isn’t a deity, but he adores (loves and respects) her and has reverence (respect) for her. I like how at the end of the episode, when they were sitting together on the concrete jetty, Gu tries two times to say something but can’t bring himself to make a sound, then blurts out “I worship you.” When they look at each other, both know what he means. She said during her proposal that love wasn’t enough: she wanted him to worship her. Between them it has become a code word for the positive aspects of their relationship: seeing and taking care of needs (e.g. jumping to retrieve MJ’s hat, giving MJ ramen when she’s shaking), perceiving character (e.g. telling Gu she thinks he is tough, wild, and transparent)…and now, it is said in place of saranghae.
At the end of Episode 11, it is sunset when MJ and Gu are sitting by the water. Will that bring their relationship the Kdrama bad juju of having a sunset date at the beach? (That’s usually a foreshadowing of something tragic happening to end the relationship.)
I’m not upset that the story is going the direction of an active romance between MJ and Gu. They are both physically healthy adults who have previously been in romantic relationships. This isn’t their first rodeo. It seems organic that physical attraction would develop between them and they’d want to explore it. Their kiss seemed natural and understated. Do I think it is advisable for these two characters to enter a romantic phase in their relationship? I’m not sure. But for the story line, I think it is a great move. We get to see the challenges they’ll face after this development. If Show sweeps under the rug their emotional and addiction issues, then I’ll think it is a big mistake.
CH’s wish fulfillment started last episode when Gu loaned him the Rolls-Royce. What I appreciate about CH’s character development in Episode 11 is that he explored his feelings and attitudes as he drove this dream vehicle. He came to realize something important about himself: that he feels peace when his hands are on the steering wheel. He cherishes that more than the adulation of folks who see him driving such an expensive car. He connects the peace he feels to the emotions he had as a child while looking at an atlas, losing himself in imagined travels. Using the car doesn’t just bring CH convenience, excitement, or social status, it helped him find something inside himself he’d lost. I’m curious to see where this realization takes CH.
Big sis and cricket wannabe, Gi Jeong, finds the “anyone” who will love her during winter. Why was it a choice between that or shaving her head? In Buddhism, getting rid of hair symbolizes renunciation of worldly ego and fashion. GJ is tired of yearning and struggling to feel pretty, tired of seeking a man she can lean on. For her, shaving her head would be a release from frustrating pursuits. Tae Hoon understood what he was saying when he first told her to not shave her hair, but it took GJ a few beats to comprehend the meaning behind his words. After the confrontation with TH’s sister Gyeong Seon, both knew exactly what he meant when he repeated, “Don’t shave your head. I’ll do it. I’ll be that ‘anyone’.” Actress Lee El does an amazing job with her facial expressions during this scene, conveying a mix of disbelief and jubilation. Tae Hoon was touched and gratified by Gi Jeong’s reaction.
All three siblings have received what they thought they needed to feel complete. We shall see how their lives progress after the fulfillment of their wishes. There’s a reason people say, “Be careful what you wish for.” We’ve got five more episodes to go, and I’m confident a screenwriter as excellent as Park Hae Young will keep us from getting complacent and bored. As Gu said, “That’s how life is. It seems to go well and then stabs you in the back. Did you think it was always going to be peachy?” We’ve been forewarned.
@Snowflower,
Remember in Ep 9, around 58 minute mark, when Hyuna had a fight with her current boyfriend bec she was visiting her ex-boyfriend? According to her, she was just nursing her ex-boyfriend because he called her up and told her that he was very sick.
Well, the nasty woman was her ex’s mom. We’re seeing the backstory.
The mom didn’t approve of her as a daughter-in-law bec she had several other men. But as it turns out, the ex trusted Hyuna more than his own mom since he entrusted her with his 500 million won. The ex didn’t want his mom to get her hands on his money after he died; he’d rather bequeath it to Hyuna.
@Snow Flower, the nasty woman is the mother of Hyeon-A’s ex-boyfriend. I believe the man in the hospital is the ex-boyfriend who called HA when he was sick; she went to take care of him overnight, causing her current boyfriend to erupt in jealous rage. I suspect it is the boyfriend HA decided to break up with at the beginning of the show. She ended their relationship after several years because she felt he lacked commitment. She deduced that because he bought a new bed…a new single bed. But even after their breakup, HA was on good terms with him, not being upset when he came to her apartment to forage for food while she was out drinking with friends.
This man, this ex-boyfriend of HA, is turning to her now for emotional support as he faces a grave illness. He fears dying, and more than that fears dying while his mother hovers, a vulture ready to pick his bones. She loves her son’s money; he’s convinced his mother doesn’t love him. He would rather bribe HA will all his money to keep her by his side than put up with his mother’s greed. He knows, as we’ve seen, that HA isn’t grasping. She’s content to work part time and live in a basement apartment. It is in her character to tell her ex’s mother that she’ll turn over her son’s money after he dies. Wealth isn’t important to HA.
As for HA’s trip to the club with CH, spending a bundle: I suspect she did that for two reasons. First, I think she needed some release from the stress of a loved one’s illness. Second, since her ex looks at the bank statement each day, I suspect HA gives him an accounting of how she spent it. He’s living vicariously.
@Packmule3, what are you doing awake at 2am? Are you the sort of person who can get four hours of sleep and be energetic throughout the following day? If so, I’m jealous. I’m a night owl only because I know I can sleep late into the morning.
I take it you’ve returned from your spa outing with your friends. I hope it was fun and refreshing.
You’re all very quick in responding. I was about to post my comment, and quite a few of you already answer Snowflower. LOL.
Does anyone understand the point system that HA is talking about? She said if the nasty woman/mother would have given her 10 points, she would be like a dog/loyal to her as well. The sick man gave her 60 points. CH, in the car ride, said he would give her 72 points. Is this out of 100 points? I think this outlook is awful. Is economics the primary reason for the low this self-worth? In the first episode or two, CH explains that he rather break off the relationship than let the relationship develop further and having the girlfriend see him as a loser.
@wapz – I haven’t watched My Ajusshi, so I have no baseline to compare this show. It was hard to watch the first four episodes, and I started the show primarily to be part of this community discussion. I don’t understand a lot of the siblings’ motives, self-worthless, hopelessness, actions, etc. I find that they are very lucky people who have parents, each other, friends, and stable jobs. The three siblings could save and buy a car together, and share it. They can do so much rather than be mopey.
We see CH and MJ’s existential thoughts. CH, having the car makes him gentle. The car provides mobility for him to be alone. Spending time with yourself is refreshing; it replenishes your energy level, and rejuvenates your soul. It’s self-care.
MJ’s statement, “I want to see heaven while I am alive.” Hmm. I don’t know what her heaven is. She has opportunities to make the best of being alive, but it’s hard for her. Her comment about other people being scarecrows was disengaging to me. Other people’s actions may bring them their version of heaven while they are alive. You make the best of what it is. Her worship proposition is her making the best of what it is.
I think GJ and TH can make the relationship work. Both she and TH need to set boundaries for their relationship relative to his daughter and sisters. The daughter cannot rule all adults’ lives. There is so much emotional impairment with these adults that I wonder when they would grow up. Perhaps this relationship would be the impetus for them to do so?
Much of this show is hard to watch just because everyone is so mopey; parts remind of me of Leaving Las Vegas, where there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I don’t know what corporate culture is like in South Korea. Is there no HR department? Firstly, MJ and bully boss. The guy is the manager, but all the underlings are women. The consensus is that he’s lame, but there is nowhere to go with this performance issue? Secondly, GJ’s boss who dates the employees. The boss is a guy with an authority position, and he dates new and young employees? These characters make bad choices, incapable of setting boundaries, and emotionally deficient.
“I’ve never lived in a house where the direction of the wind changes and the moon is visible at night. I thought such houses only existed in fairy tales.” I gather from this that Gu was raised in a highly urbanized setting, in the midst of tall buildings. In Sanpo, he has come to appreciate not having to talk so much. He likes sitting outside. He takes opportunity to look at the mountains. He prefers moonlight to artificial light.
When Gu meets with Chairman Shin [I love how Gu led on the men seeking him, then caught them], CS says, “When I heard you were well and alive, I thought you’d be back soon. but you haven’t. So I wondered if you found someone else.” I don’t think Shin is worried Gu is in a relationship with a woman, I think he fears Gu went to work for a competitor. “That’s why I had some of my people watch you.” Shin offers Gu his old position, claiming to need him since Baek is not performing to his satisfaction. “Come back. What is it? Do you need more time? (Gu says yes.) “But what is it that you need to do here?”
I think what Gu needs to do in Sanpo is continue finding himself: in the context of his relationship with MJ, and in many other ways. Going back to his old life may return Gu to the ranks of the walking dead.
What would be asked of Gu if he returned to working for Shin? Being above reproach isn’t a requirement. “If I can’t do anything about that [people taking Shin’s money], I want someone strong there at least. Someone I can rely on.” Shin considers Baek unreliable and a source of shame. In what ways can Shin rely on Gu that he can’t on Baek? Was Gu more compliant to Shin’s directives than Baek? Did Gu not have his own agenda while he worked for Shin? Will Gu have to sell his reawakened soul to step back in as Shin’s right hand man?
It sounds like MJ has been an old soul, a deep thinker, since she was a child. Here’s her voiceover as she and Gu climb a hill to an overlook:
When I was a child, I was asked to hand in what we had prayed about at church. Looking at what my friends wrote, I thought, “Why would they pray for that? Grades, the school they want to get into, friends. They’re seriously praying for that? To God? But it’s God.” There was only one thing I was curious about. “What am I? Why am I here?” I didn’t exist before 1991, and I won’t exist in 50 years, but I feel like I existed before that and will still exist after that. The feeling that I’ll exist forever. I’ve been frustrated by that feeling, and I’ve never, in my heart, ever, felt settled. I feel uneasy in bed, I feel uneasy around people. “Why can’t I laugh happily like other people? Why am I sad all the time? Why am I always nervous? Why is everything so boring?” It feels like people are all scarecrows. They don’t really know what they are. They’re just acting as if they do. In a way, people who say they live healthily and happily may be the people who decided to put all these questions behind them. People who have decided to lie and say, “This is just how life is.” I’ll never do that. I don’t care about where I’ll go after I die. I want to see heaven while I’m alive.
This internal monologue of MJ’s brings several thoughts to mind.
I was appalled hearing she’d been given an assignment to list what she’d prayed about at church. Jesus taught we should pray in secret, and lambasted those making a public show of their prayers.
MJ has experienced her life as an unrelenting existential crisis.
She says she feels uneasy in bed. Earlier, after Gu broke the streetlamp so he could better appreciate the moonlight, MJ told him, “I think humans are only sane when they’re lonely. So…I think I’m saner at night.” I suppose in her mind being more sane and being uneasy aren’t mutually exclusive.
If these persist for long periods of time, they can be evidence of depression:
–No spontaneous laughter
–Sadness
–Anxiety
–Boredom (studies have shown boredom is linked to stress)
MJ’s musings about people who decide to put questions behind them makes me think of her sister’s threat to shave her head. GJ wants to put an end to her out-of-control yearnings so she can live more happily.
Does MJ consider Gu to have lied when he told her, “That’s how life is…” Does she reject his cynical take: when things go well, expect to be stabbed in the back?
“I want to see heaven while I’m alive.” It sounds like MJ has not given up on life. She expects she’ll eventually be able to experience pleasure and enjoyment.
I thought it was interesting that MJ was ‘worshipped’ twice in short order: her co-worker thinks her original designs are elegant and that they should be shown to the heads of the design department before being edited by her boss. Later, as @Welmaris mentioned above, Gu told MJ that he worshipped her. She must be feeling vindicated about her talent at work as well as personally, with Gu.
Did anyone else have the feeling that MJ and her co-worker were being overlooked by someone else in the organisation during their conversation?
I also liked that GJ questioned the tactic of making someone anxious as a means to ignite a relationship. She saw it as a negative. She would prefer to love unreservedly. Interestingly, this reminds me of Hyun-ah whom she thinks is a poor role model. H advised MJ to love explosively, like a warrior. GJ’s idea seemed like a revelation to her two seniors. I think it made her boss end the half-hearted relationship he had with the younger employee more decisively than usual. The boss also said something about in these circumstances (ending a relationship) he wonders if he ‘owes’ the other party something. This in turn reminded me of Gu’s words in episode 10 when he was being offensive to MJ: “Do you want me to apologise? If you have something to say, say it. Women always ask for things like I owe them something.” I don’t necessarily think that these similar turns of phrase mean that the thoughts and conversations are linked – it could be also be a quirk of translation. The author seems to repeat motifs from one character to another with a little twist, so that they may or may not have the same meaning.
I’m finding the voice-overs a bit confusing in this drama. I don’t know if the words are being said out loud or if they are thoughts, or a bit of both. I wondered this when Gu’s voice spoke about instincts and in episode 11 when MJ had her long monologue about prayers and her existence.
@Fern, I’ve concluded that just as some narrators of a story aren’t reliable, in this drama the voiceovers may be misleading. I haven’t figured out yet if that’s by the screenwriter’s design, and she’s masterfully manipulating us, or if she (or the director, or the editor) is sloppy. I’ve decided that if I don’t see the character/s speaking the words in their reality, I will maintain scepticism. The first example I encountered was MJ’s voiceover defining worship as cheering for someone, but we never see her speaking those words. Were they in Gu’s imagination? Is that what he wanted her to believe about worship? Was that all he’d allow himself, at that time, to believe worship entailed?
Another questionable voiceover in terms of whether it was actually spoken–and if so, to whom and when–was Tae Hoon musing about his fears in relation to his daughter. Since we hear him in the midst of scenes of a Liberation Club meeting, we could assume he spoke them then; but they accompany a scene, spliced into the meeting, where he meets his daughter as he walks home from work. Judging from the clothes he’s wearing, that scene occurs after he left the Liberation Club that night.
Yes, it is confusing to hear a voiceover and not know where it fits in the story, and whether it is a reflection of the mind if the speaker, or a figment of imagination of the “listener.”
Episode 12, Papa smiles. It looks so out of place on his face! True, it’s a polite, forced smile at an unexpected guest in his home, but still…I didn’t believe old stoneface had it in him.
I don’t subscribe to blaming parents for all the problems that manifest in their children, but can you imagine being raised by a father who never smiled?
So many new developments in Episode 12! A great setup for the endgame.
Are we surprised that all the pretty sandcastles of Episode 11 were washed away in Episode 12? Watching this screenwriter build them, then deftly knock them down, has been rewarding.
Let me talk about my favorite first. @Packmule3, this will include one of your beefs about Gu: how he wore his running shoes. It was all a long setup for a joke. Kudos to the screenwriter for having the patience and foresight to set up a comic scene over many episodes.
A friend once told me that when she lived a length of time in Japan, the heels of her running shoes were always broken because she didn’t put them on properly. It was common to step on the backs, wearing the shoes like clogs, as it was easier to take them off when returning indoors.
Episode 12 starts with Mama hanging up wet laundry and nagging GJ to come wash her running shoes. Shoes are now on our minds.
We see CH learning one lesson after another about the pitfalls of using a car, especially a surreptitiously borrowed one.
–CH’s car-induced state of zen is fleeting. He’s back to complaining about AR. CH’s co-workers comment, “Why does it feel like the effect of the car is slowing wearing off?”
–Cars aren’t convenient in the city. Parking is a big challenge. CH wants to drive home his female coworker who has a crush on him, but can’t because his car is trapped by another. He has to send her home in a taxi, then wait for the Rolls-Royce to become unblocked.
–In a following scene with GJ and TH, we’re reminded that one reason CH wanted to own a car was to have a place to kiss a girl. He found out having both a car and a willing girl doesn’t necessarily add up to a make-out session.
–CH’s boss is now using CH and the car as his chauffeur service. CH isn’t pleased.
–Hit and run damage. No dashcam footage. No operational CCTV at the lot where the damage was discovered. Damage could have been from earlier, at another location, because CH had stopped inspecting the car each time he got in and out. If he wants to keep Gu from learning about the damage, CH is on the hook for the repair. Expensive cars are expensive to operate and repair. A new bumper for a Rolls-Royce Ghost (I knew it!) costs more than buying a decent used car.
–Secrets are hard to keep. Papa sees CH driving the Rolls-Royce. Papa is not pleased CH has been deluding him. Papa is rightfully concerned about CH’s liability. Papa instructs CH to stop driving another person’s car. CH thinks Papa is mean to take away his happiness.
CH repays Gu’s generosity by damaging the previously good dynamics between Gu and his employer, as well as Gu’s car. Gu has been with the family long enough to sense the strained feelings of everyone else around the table when he joins them for dinner. [I love how much Son Suk Ku can convey with his eyebrows.]
At Du Hwan’s urging, CH decides to tell Gu about the damage to the Rolls-Royce. Just before he leaves his house, he looks at his feet, then decides to switch his slip-on sandals for running shoes. [At this point, I started to laugh.]
Gu comes out to look at the Rolls-Royce’s bumper. He doesn’t look happy, but he isn’t saying anything to CH. He looks at the back bumper. CH is standing near the front of the car. Gu looks at CH. His brows are furrowed: is it because he’s looking into the sun? He’s biting his lips. Still silent. Gu uses one hand on the car to brace himself, reaches down, and pulls up the heel of one running shoe, then the other. [By this time I’m yelling at the TV.] CH must not have a good view of Gu, because he doesn’t react until Gu bolts toward him.
I roared with laughter to watch CH being chased by Gu. Despite CH being fueled by adrenaline, I think Gu could have overtaken him easily. Gu was a national track and field athlete. He might be out of shape, but neither has CH been maintaining running form. Gu was drilled in technique; CH is a frightened animal. Gu even knew better than CH how to rehydrate on the run. I think Gu was toying with him. That Gu doesn’t appear before CH on the train, where CH can no longer run from him, supports this view.
There’s a camera shot of CH’s running shoes as he sits, panting, on the train. His shoes are covered with red dust from running through the countryside. I’m not sure how to interpret the symbolism, but I believe it somehow circles back to Mama nagging GJ to wash her running shoes. There’s definitely a country versus city tension seeing those dusty shoes in the subway car. I also think there can be a comforts-of-home versus fugitive-on-the-run vibe.
Just thought of another connection to CH’s dirty red shoes. We later see Baek running as he’s being chased by two detectives. Baek evades them. Baek ends up covered in red. It isn’t dust.
Can’t stop myself. One more.
Dusted: slang for defeated; to be killed. The term comes from the burial service in the [Christian] Book of Common Prayer: “We therefore commit this body to the ground, earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust…” Baek was running, and ended up dusted.
At the end of the episode, we see Mi-jeong with a more sophisticated haircut and outfit. I wonder if she used her anger creatively? She entered the contest despite her boss not inviting her entry. I hope that she made a back-up copy in case he doesn’t submit hers or tries to sabotage it somehow.
I completely don’t trust the previews.
@Welmaris, good catches on the shoes. There was also the shockingly incongruous sight of Gu’s visitor’s loud two-tone shoes at the door of the Yeom family house. The way Mrs Yeom looked at the man’s outfit and Mr Yeom at his bracelet! 🤨😆
What do people think about Gu’s laughter at Baek’s funeral? He can’t hold it in even when reminded by his friend. Is it genuine amusement, ironic or even unintentional, as explained by the newest Liberation Club member, So Hyang-Gi? When he had a drink with Baek in an earlier episode, he started smiling when Baek spoke about his sister, Gu’s girlfriend’s death. It was uncomfortable even then and more so at the end of episode 12. Yet, HE tells Mi-Jeong that she should move to Seoul to improve her social interactions.
I can only think right now that Gu’s laughter was that he set in motion the drug raid, Baek ended up dead by accident and now he is trapped. So sort of hysterical laughter at the irony?
I am glad that MJ was honest with Gu about how she felt about him leaving. He wanted her to get angry with him so he could respond in turn, but after thinking about it, she said she was sad. When she said that she would carry her baby – that she wanted to carry him – to carry him when he was one year old. And her thoughts that she wished him well and good health- not so much as a cold. My heart really hurt.
@Fern, this dialogue creeped me out. Maybe there’s some more insight into it but telling someone you potentially like that you you want to carry them when they were one is just very creepy. Mi Jung has weird thoughts and after meeting Mr Gu she does not filter them out. It was fine when she talked about the nail and woman lying dead or the frogs dying, we all such thoughts but this was something seriously different.
@wapz, Yes, it was strange. I wondered at first if she meant his child; or that she would have loved to carry him if she were an adult and he was a baby? Or that she wishes she could continue to support him unconditionally and uncritically and wished that she could have started doing so when he was very young so he could have grown up with other options? Could there be other translations or theories because I can’t think that she is feeling maternal in a traditional way about him. Eeuww. Unless she is his mother-who-died-young reincarnated – but that’s quite a long shot and doesn’t fit with this particular drama.
Her musings are definitely dark-ish but I think that’s mostly to do with how/where she was raised and her own personality. The only one that’s bothered me was the description of the fingernail on the floor…it seemed odd she’d say that to her coworker. I don’t know, I just didn’t like it.
As far as what she said to Gu, I interpreted it as:
•I don’t want to be like the city women who use strollers, I plan to carry my kid on my back the old fashioned way.
•And the “I want to carry you at one” could mean 1. I wish you could’ve been raised in a different way so this wouldn’t have to be your life and/or 2. I want to have your baby and raise it.
I liked the wild dogs storyline. It’s like he’s known ever since he heard the mom talking to the animal control people how to take care of the problem but he let them live free. Once his “brother” came to visit and he realized he was trapped because now even Shin will be after him and the yeomg family could get involved, the first thing he did was set up the umbrella to attract the dogs to the shade. If he’s getting trapped, they should too and also he probably wanted to eliminate that danger before he left. Just like he had to eliminate Baek once he realized it had gone so far as to drug dealing.
I was fairly certain it was 2019 because of the way the days of the week lined up with their events, like church and days off work in the office to work in the field and I think the calendar in the tv room just started on Mon instead of Sunday like the majority of calendars I see. I’m anxious to see if the ambulance is headed to pick up Papa Yeomg. Does he die and they sell the farm? Does Gu secretly buy it? Do they all move to Seoul. I want to know what happens to Mom with more independence. I also think the conversation between sick ex bf and CH will be interesting.
I saw some theories on Twitter where the whole breaking of the light and hike up the mountain was metaphor for having sex. I agree because 1. That was an extremely good shot with a rock even for an ex athlete and 2. They showed the light not actually broken. What I don’t understand is why the writer/director felt the need for metaphor in the first place? Does that just make it extra art-y?
also, the lady joining the liberation club and her smiling expression and the way the welcomed her. I loved all of that part.
glad the daughter seems to have a not bratty reaction. Sheesh do they have a hill to climb with those sisters though.
Im not that invested in their storyline but I am anti relationship with her boss. I’ve seen people mention love triangle and such and it wouldn’t be a complete surprise being that it’s a kdrama but since it is seeming to stay more “real life” I appreciate that coworkers can just have a nice friendly relationship that doesn’t cross lines or become romantic.
Sorry, it looks like I decided to let you all play a guessing game to decide which relationships I’m talking about.
@Fern
I think it could have been he was laughing at the irony of the situation. His rival who was after him ended up dead but instead of being freed he’s now trapped. The bigger irony is he was there paying respect at an enemy’s funeral, who’s downfall and ultimate death resulted from his tip off. I think he must have felt even more guilty, both siblings’ deaths somehow involved him, and his laughter was a facade to mask how he truly felt.
“I’m the kind of person who’s happy when someone dies.” He looked far from happy, to me he’s more deranged than ever.
“I will carry my child. I want to carry you. I want to carry you at one year old.” I share your interpretation here, she wishes to shoulder his burden and support him unconditionally, as she would want to with her child. In an earlier episode, MJ said she wanted to go back in time and sit quietly next his younger self. After learning more about Mr Gu’s past and pain, she no longer wants to just quietly sit next to him, she wishes to carry him along everything that’s weighing him down. She wishes to be there for him from when he was a child, she wants to be a part of his earliest memories.
It seems like Mr Gu’s business isn’t just a nightclub but a host bar, that makes Mr Gu a pimp. Are his men gigolos, or some of them? And I also want to know if Mr Gu started as one and worked his way up. I want to learn more about his past and darkness. He said he spent 15 years in that basement listening to drunks.
@Fern, what I get from the previews is that Gu comes to see MJ. (Of course he will, or what will the story be about for the last four episodes?) We’ve heard Gu yell Sam Sik’s name to get his attention. We’ve recently heard Gu address MJ by her full name. So I have no doubt the shouted “Yeom Mi Jeong” is him bellowing for her.
It also looks from the previews that the show will not stick with the time jump seen in the last seconds of Episode 12. It’s unlikely Mama wouldn’t have met TH if GJ dated him a long time. And the design competition storyline has yet to be unfolded.
That time jump was done so effectively. Sure got my attention! At the least it jumped from fall to winter, but change of hairstyle in Kdramas often signals new stage of life.
@Fern, wasn’t hyung’s gangster getup cheesy in a deliciously tropey way? The flashy red sports car parked outside, zoot suit shoes at the door, and all that bling on his hands, yet he tells Papa he barely gets by under Gu’s guidance? Hyung needs to learn how to budget. Maybe then he wouldn’t need to skim money from Chairman Shin.
I’ll talk about Gu at Baek’s funeral in a different comment. I’ll also comment separately about the breakup conversation between MJ and Gu. In regard to the latter, I have a question for the hive: Does anyone remember when CH made the comment about women getting the strollers they want?
@birdie007, I agree that the feral dogs’ storyline was well done, and wove into the main story seamlessly. I noted that Gu marched right into their territory, umbrella on his shoulder, with no concern about being attacked. He had become an accepted member of their pack. He slowly built their trust, as MJ built his trust in her. We saw Gu provide them protection from heat and sun, as he protects MJ. I agree with you that Gu decided to leave when he did because his old world intruded on the Yeom family [to the point of his hyung actually in the Yeom home, at dinnertime, acting like he’s hosting Gu…insufferable]; MJ, as his girlfriend, may become a target. And in leaving Sanpo to return to Seoul, as Gu drove past the last dog being captured [the most wily one, probably], my heart broke that Gu had also been caged.
@birdie007, it was confirmed in this episode that so far we’ve been in 2019. When Papa is giving Gu his last envelope of wages, the calendar in the factory is labeled “2019 Monthly Schedule.” Earlier, after Gu confronted Baek at the club, I had researched the information he read out loud from the newspaper: two quarters of slump in export investments and five straight months of recession, the longest since 2005. I found that South Korea’s GDP shrank in 2019, an indicator of recession.
On the day Gu receives his last payment from Papa, the calendar in the factory shows the 1st falling on a Sunday. In 2019, that means it could be only September or December. [Both those months had a Friday the 13th!] The shirtsleeve temperature and the changing leaves on the trees indicate fall, rather than winter.
The story started in the summer of 2019. Gu parted ways with MJ in September 2019.
@welmaris there’s also a date 9/6 shown during one of the text exchanges. I can’t remember if it was Kj or hyuna
@birdie007…breaking the street light and hiking up the mountain…drama’s artsy way of symbolizing sex? Please! All I needed to see was MJ having showered late at night.
Busting a street lamp isn’t so difficult: vandals do it all the time. Gu having done it in one throw? Possible, as he may have trained in shot put as a track and field athlete. Unless it serves the purpose of the story, why would Drama waste our time showing multiple attempts? Walking up a hill? They went to an overlook to see lights: a common date. Why push these scenes into the realm of symbolism? These two engaged in conversation and activities that drew them closer together emotionally, which led to physical intimacy. Drama decided to not show us more than a kiss, and I’m willing to let these characters have their privacy. Whether or not MJ needed to wash her hair because she’d had a roll in the hay, that’s their business.
@birdie007, I’d like to see GJ’s boss learn to be comfortable with himself as a single rather than feeling compelled to be a serial dater. His choice in women, all the relationships he’s chosen to end, show me he needs to learn more about himself. I believe GJ has been a catalyst for him to do some self reflection.
As for GJ, I know she’s quick to say whatever is on her mind, and is admittedly critical of other people, but her bashful behavior while talking with her work superiors, and with TH, doesn’t jibe with the way she speaks to her siblings. She seems to delight in verbally jabbing CH and MJ, and unapologetically gets them in trouble with their parents. I’m not keen on her fulfilling a love line with anyone until she learns to better manage her anger, hatred, jealousy, etc. Being in a relationship with a good man won’t suddenly heal her. Familiarity breeds contempt, and she’d revert to her hurtful ways when the glow wears off.
One night MJ gets off the village bus and walks with Gu. Their conversation, at first about the always-smiling club coordinator, turns to the subject of pretending.
Gu: Does anyone live without pretending?
MJ: Do you pretend, too?
Gu: All the time. Don’t you?
MJ: Of course I do. I pretend to be easygoing. [Gu nods.] …If I lived today without pretending at all [MJ shoots a glance at Gu], I would’ve killed and eaten someone [a reference to their nameless-goat conversation].
When running after CH, Gu began reflecting on things. One was a memory of a fight with a woman. Her voice says, “You are like…” and his raised voice cuts in, “Stop! I’m the only one who needs to understand me. You don’t need to act like you know me.” But then he pictures MJ saying, “You’re rough and transparent. You’re transparent.”
Later in Episode 12, as Gu and MJ walk back from watering the new plants (romaine lettuce?) in the field they recently planted, Gu tells MJ he’s leaving. He’s evasive when she asks him why. MJ then strides away from him and enters her own house. [You can always gauge how Gu and MJ are feeling about each other by how they walk together…or not.]
After quietly shedding a tear or two, MJ goes to Gu’s house to talk. She appears calm. [Pretending to be easygoing?] Gu indicates he wants this to be a clean break and not have a lingering, long-distance relationship. He’s going back to his old life, leaving this new one behind.
MJ: I told you, I don’t care what kind of life you’ve led.
Gu: You don’t care what kind of life I’ve led? What about the kind of life I’ll live? I’m just fine with my life.
In summer When MJ made the proposal for Gu to worship her to save himself, and her, she promised they’d both be different people by spring. Now, in fall, Gu is negating the deal. He doesn’t want to become a new person. He’s returning to the life he used to lead. But that is the life he escaped as a walking dead man, barely alive, exhausted, before it killed him. Is he really fine with that? Or is he pretending?
Gu tries goading MJ to curse him. Did anyone else notice that his bottom lip and chin quiver as he speaks?
MJ says one of the best breakup responses I’ve heard in a Kdrama, because it is so true to her character. “I’m…not angry…You want to go back. You want to leave, and I could tell you not to…or I could ask you to stay longer. I’m just sad. But I’m not angry. I don’t know, I might be angry later.” Gu has to bite his lips and turn his face from her, taking a moment to compose himself. [And this is why Gu finds her scary. He does not like being vulnerable.]
In Episode 10 after MJ shooed the feral dogs away from Gu, he says to her as they’re walking, “You keep making things worse. Today, I’ll get my arm bit off, and tomorrow, a broken nose. Misfortunes should come in small doses, but you keep stopping them and making them bigger. I’m scared every time you stop them. ‘Now it’s gotten even bigger. How bad is it going to be?’” After he finishes speaking to MJ and turns to walk away from her, we hear his voiceover, “You…have to kill your instincts. You have to go to the city and numb them. So that instead of talking about frogs being crushed to death, you have to be able to sincerely talk about superficial stuff like other women do. Until you get sick of it. Until you’re sick to death of men. Women with sharp instincts can be scary.” We know that these are Gu’s thoughts at that moment, because he stops, turns back to MJ, who’s been following him, and says, “You…scare me.” He flops onto a pyung sang and gazes up at the stars, saying, “As long as you live in a place like this…you won’t be able to kill your instincts.”
Back to Episode 12 and the breakup. Next comes the most heated part of their exchange. [My comments are in brackets.]
Gu: You too. Live in Seoul if possible, all right? [He wants her to kill her instincts. It’s her instincts that make him transparent to her.] Like an ordinary person. [Gu considers MJ extraordinary, unlike anyone he’s ever met. If she becomes ordinary, it will be easier for him to leave her behind.] Surrounded by people.
MJ: I’m ordinary now, too. Exhaustingly ordinary.
Gu: Being ordinary…is when you have common desires. That’s when you can say you’re ordinary. Not “worship” or “liberation.” The desires that everyone else has. As your brother said, like the women who have the strollers they want. [A reference to women who realize a wish of marrying and having a family.]
MJ: I’m going to carry my kid. I want to carry you. I want to carry you at one year old. [Seeing the family and locale in which she was raised, I suspect MJ is familiar with many older Korean traditions. I agree MJ is referring here to a podaegi. By Korean reckoning, a baby is counted one year old at birth. Tied to someone’s back, a child won’t wander off or stumble into danger. Held close to a trusted person, the child is soothed. Using a podaegi allows a person to work without worrying about the child’s immediate welfare. MJ proposed her worship plan to Gu so the two of them could become new people: rebirth. MJ promised their new lives would emerge in spring. What MJ is trying to say, I believe, is that in the spring she wants to be protecting and soothing the new Gu, keeping him close to her while still engaged in her own new life. She does not want to give up on this plan.]
Gu: That’s why you live like this. [She’s depressed because her goals are unrealistic.]
MJ: I’m going to live like this. I’m just going to live like this. [She won’t give up on Gu, nor her way of navigating life, even if she’s exhausted.] I’m going to call. Even if you answer grumpily. But not often. [This is why Gu changes his phone number. She rejects his clean break, so he enforces it by cutting all contact.]
Thank you everyone for your interpretations of MJ’s and Gu’s words during the breakup. I forgot that in Korea a child is considered 1 year old at birth and that makes more sense. Her carrying him is a continuation of her ‘worship/support’. To me it was an extraordinary scene.
Thank you also for your ideas on why he was smiling at Baek’s mention of his sister’s death and also laughing at Baek’s funeral. We were set up for it with the new club member’s statement of an inability to not smile awkwardly at funerals.
Gu had time to reflect on Baek’s business style since seeing him in the club. It wasn’t a snap decision. The way his hyung went immediately to phone Chairman Shin as soon as Gu told him that Baek was dealing meant that Gu was back for good and Gu didn’t try to stop him. Baek died in the raid set up by Gu- it almost wasn’t necessary but it meant that Gu was firmly glued into place then. I wonder how Gu will treat those who went along with Baek’s drug dealing?
I wondered why there were no women at the funeral. Surely there were women in the organisation?
@Welmaris, yes to hyung’s sleazy outfit! Man bling.
@Welmaris, looking at your question about Gu being fine about returning to his past life, I think he is certainly pretending but he can’t escape it anymore. The encounters with Baek, the visit by Hyung, the car – he has been busted both by the organization and by the Yeom family. As quiet as he was during his time with them, that couldn’t last. GJ is already asking MJ for money in a preview of the possible future.
We see him trying to protect the dogs with a big umbrella. It is laughable because such a thing is so unstable out in the open with no support. When I first saw it, I thought, ‘What can he be thinking?’ It ended up toppled and mangled and we see one of the dogs in a cage. I wondered if the others got away up into the woods or not. It may have been the most greedy/trusting/stupid dog if the others are still around or it may have been the last and wiliest. Was the caught dog a metaphor for Baek or for Gu or both?
Gu wants MJ to have common desires, but he mocked her a few episodes back when he said her questions were like those of dull women. I’m glad that she refuses to fit into his stereotypes and to make him comfortable with his decision.
@Welmaris
Thank you for your analyses, they really help shed a new perspective. I, too, forgot that by Korean tradition a baby is considered one year old at birth.
Regarding the comment CH made about the women getting the strollers they want, I went back and could not find anything. I can only think of a scene in episode 5 where CH talked about women with ordinary desires he’s unable to fulfill to his friend. I had a discussion with someone on another platform who understood that sentence as two different statements. If that’s the case the translation is misleading.
“Like your brother said. Like those women who have the strollers they want.”
“Like your brother said and like those women who have the strollers they want.” Either of those would have been better (imho) if that’s the case but I’m not sure if that’s the correct meaning.
@Dreamer205 and @Welmaris, it’s also possible that part of a scene in an earlier episode was cut and the directors forgot to delete that reference as well. I thought it might even have been as early as episode one when he was asking his dad for a car, but no.
Err…sorry been out of the discussion. Real life has been hectic.
This is SSK in his latest movie – The Round Up. Guess this is what he’s been hiding underneath all those oversized tattered Tshirts 😮😂
https://i.ibb.co/YZT5Wk9/7-F315901-B17-C-4989-B65-B-D85-A32-F99-F90.jpg
@nrllee, it sounds like the character he plays in The Roundup is evil, a true villain. I’m glad the character he plays in My Liberation Notes isn’t nearly as contemptible. Although Gu may have gangster ties from working 15 years in the club/salon room/host bar business, I doubt he’s a murderer and kidnapper.
@Packmule3, I hope all is well with you. I assume your week-long period of relative quietness is due to your being busy with work. If you have a moment tonight, please open a new thread for My Liberation Notes eps. 13-14. Thanks!
Oh, @Welmaris. I forgot about MLN. I’ll do one first thing tomorrow.
Yes, it’s been a hectic week. But you know what Nietzsche said. “Out of life’s school of war: what does not kill us, makes us stronger.”
Or maybe fatter?
I tend to eat ice cream as stress reliever. 😂😂
Before we move on to discussing episodes 13 & 14, I want to reflect on what we learn from Episode 12 in reference to funerals and Jesa (death day) ceremonies.
We’re introduced to the theme of traditions around death during a Liberation Club meeting. The club coordinator shares about difficulties that stem from her always smiling, whether or not she feels happy inside. Her smile is a mask she can’t seem to take off, even when at a somber events. She’s lost her ability for her face to reflect her sincere feelings: so much so that she avoids funerals for fear her smile will offend the bereaved. [I note that as she talks, her face does display emotions other than happiness.]
We see the Yeom family’s observance on the death day anniversary of Papa’s father. [Papa, the eldest descendant, makes the first offering of rice wine.] Here’s more information on the Jesa ceremony: https://www.joincake.com/blog/jesa/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesa. The Yeom family’s preparations have been carefully done: food is cooked, the shrine is set up, a prayer is written. The family members, dressed respectfully in black, bow in front of the shrine. We see that this family not only honors their ancestors, but respects tradition. [It may not be important to the story, but from the lack of any other close relatives participating in this Jesa ceremony, it seems Papa is the sole descendant of his father.]
We see Gu attending Baek’s funeral. To the right of Baek’s shrine stand three men, in the place where mourners stand, but none of them are wearing the arm bands indicating immediate family. The dining hall is filled with men eating quietly; no women are present. I assume all who are at Baek’s funeral are men who knew him through business. [Does Baek not have any family to honor him on his death day anniversaries?] Gu smiles, then snickers. He pats [with some force] and rubs the head of Sam Sik, sitting next to him, and asks, “Did you miss me? Hmm?” Gu continues smiling, and his hyung warns, “You, punk. Watch your expression in front of the boys.” [As we learned from the club coordinator’s story, smiling at funerals is not culturally appropriate.] This amuses Gu even more. “Why? Did someone die? Someone did. Someone did die.” He tries to control his face, then breaks into open laughter. He knocks loudly on the table for Sam Sik to refill his soju. Gu downs the shot, sighs, and says, “Me…I’m the kind of person who’s happy when someone dies. Huh? [subs: “You know?]” The scene then turns dreamlike, a bit out of focus with choppy motion. Someone walks in front of the camera. When Gu’s face comes back into focus, I believe what we briefly see is him at a different funeral: his face is serious, and the collar of the shirt he’s wearing is black, not white, as at Baek’s funeral. I think we’re shown how Gu was at his girlfriend’s funeral, whose suicide precipitated his flight from Seoul and downward emotional spiral. Baek, wanting someone to blame for his little sister’s death, accused Gu of wanting her dead and being glad she was. Baek only wanted to believe Gu was putting on a show, acting like he was broken. Gu’s words agreeing with Baek’s assessment were spoken ironically. Also, when Gu said “Someone did die,” his words could have two interpretations: Baek died, but the Gu who was emerging in Sanpo also died when Gu returned to his old life.
@Packmule3, thanks!
Do you have a stock of B & J’s stress relief in the freezer?
@Welmaris, I saw the change in the filming but missed the different shirt which indicated another funeral. Thank you for pointing that out.
I also wondered at the lack of women there. The club seemed to be run by men only. I also wondered if the club was shut down for a while pending the investigations and how Gu’s relationship will change with Chairman Shin after the raid – for better or worse.