As you wish, @GB. This thread is for Eps 11 to 16.
(Note to myself: I must watch “Princess Bride.”)
Enjoy the show!
47 Comments On “Bora! Deborah: Eps 11 to 16 Open Thread”
Comments are closed.
As you wish, @GB. This thread is for Eps 11 to 16.
(Note to myself: I must watch “Princess Bride.”)
Enjoy the show!
Comments are closed.
Thank you my dear @pkml3. I am enjoying the show more thoroughly than expected. 😆 😊 😇
HI @GB,
Like you am really enjoying the show.
The EP 11 pre-wedding was wonderful – another comic opera of an episode.
I was very glad to see our ML clarifying and bringing closure to his previous relationship.
HOW romantic that he then shows up as Bo-rah’s faux boyfriend and ‘pretends’ he fell in love with Bo-rah at first sight when he met her at a wedding and she was wearing a black dress. ‘It was as if everything was in slow motion’ he declares to the appreciative audience of friends.
As we both know this references their session in a dress shop but what we don’t know as he ‘pretends’ to have this background with her is that he is telling the truth (tingle moment). There is a wonderful retrospective of that precise moment in Episode 12. [Our FL looks wonderful in that black dress. Another hit design evoking Audrey Hepburn!]
Fun watching unpleasant ex squirming and uncomfortable with Bo-rah’s presence with a man at the wedding. Chansung is doing that role justice and then some.
The main romance continues to bubble just under the surface but not as hidden now. Both are risking more in conversation and in the way they look at one another. That great question from Bo-rah about why he keeps acting towards her in such a seductive way (ie kind and complimentary and gazing at her etc). He asks whether it would be a problem if he was trying to seduce her…! She shyly looks a bit nonplussed and bats the question away. The stakes are getting higher and higher.
I enjoyed the conversation between the divorced couple. So sad that they were both lonely in that relationship. However, the young girl at the publishing company is simply too young and naive for the director! We can all see where that is going however.
@Kate
EPISODES 11 AND 12
I do like the ‘method acting’ of faux boyfriend Su Hyeok, followed by that of Bo Ra at Yuri’s wedding (his more than hers though). These two make good partners.
I liked how Bo Ra pooh-poohed what SH said about her being unable to see herself objectively and that she could be likable as Bo Ra rather than as Deborah, based on her belief that he had made up the story of falling in love with her at first sight, only to find out that he had likely spoken the truth. This would mean that he had been sincere about everything he’d said. Next episode we see that she returns to the radio station. I’d like to see if she returns as Bo Ra more than as Deborah, because she has let him convince her to be more authentically herself.
Was that little black dress another Audrey Heburn inspired design? It was so enticing but needs a tiny waist and small hips to carry off well. *sigh*
Chansung does a good job as Louse. I still dislike the character heartily and hate seeing him turn up any time. Unfortunately there will be more of him next episode, hence lots more conflict.
SH is now in the unenviable position of having to woo a woman who is convinced that he does not like her, who having failed in romance is now skittish with him and who has Mulder-zoned him. LOL. Both of them are afraid of being hurt again, but I’m glad to see the SH still keeps testing the waters, still drops hints, still works on the seduction. Such ‘kyaa’ moments.
Of course I love all the ‘not-a-date’ dates that he manages to get Bo Ra to come on. It’s because they are not encumbered by fear of losing out to each other (as they had been in their romances) that they have such good, honest conversations. I enjoyed rewatching most of them in Episode 12. They have so much trust in each other, that their personal sharing is unique in its openness. All that is required now is for them to also be open about how they want their relationship to change. That may take all of 3 episodes!!!
It was such a relief to have Sang Jin and Su Jin finally get closure. Su Jin has been so stiff, tense, unsmiling…so unhappy and full of resentment all along, that it was delightful to see other expressions come upon her face and finally to have her smiling, relaxed, and able to lift the curse from Sang Jin. I agree that I can’t really feel comfortable about Sang Jin and the very young, naïve Uri being a couple. Daddy-long-legs was actually not that much older than Judy in the story. Uri’s crush is too childlike and immature. Perhaps in about 3-5 years’ time, when she’s older, we will feel differently.
@GB – yes to all of this.
Mulder-zoning! haha
The ‘not-a-date’ dates are brilliant. And actually with all the hidden sexual chemistry in Skully and Mulder’s relationship – perhaps Mulder-zoning is a pleasantly charged place to contemplate a new relationship as it emerges, slowly, tentatively and full of delightful moments.
I am enjoying the Chansung role – only because I/you feel that his come-uppance will be quite a good one when it happens! Also, because he is quite comedic as the louse!
Yes, 3 to 5 years and more of a woman less of a child… Uri might be in a position to partner with Sang Jin. But not at the moment. It is not cute at all.
Thoughts Especially After Episode 12
Unlike with other shows that I comment on, I did not spend as much time thinking through the relationships in this show. I’ve been generally breezing through the episodes for the light relaxation and laughs. However I am aware that while I found the show fun, I still disagreed with some sentiments and attitudes towards romantic relationships that have been portrayed. I believe I’m watching to see if the Show leads us to better solutions, resolutions, closure, and better discoveries and convictions about relationships. As noted above, I’m glad that I’ve seen the closure of the divorced couple’s relationship. That was something much needed for them both to move on. (Perhaps more on their conversation later).
From the beginning, even while I laughed, I was appalled by the immaturity of some characters mostly Bo Ra and her friend Yu Jeong, and her husband, Jin Woo. Show has given much scope for these characters to improve. The other thing I’m noticing… many (all except Uri?) of the females seem confident to the extent of being over-bearing, and the males, except for Su Hyeok, are rather subservient. I know one of the Directors of the Show is female and I’m guessing the Writer is too. Possibly we are exploring the theme of romancing the modern woman at every stage of a relationship: in a crush like Uri, starting out like Bo Mi, almost dating/dating/after break-up like Bo Ra, married and dissatisfied like Yu Jeong, divorced and resentful like Su Jin.
From the preview it looks like we’ll see one more version of romance … getting back together with ex-boyfriend, through Bo Ra once again.
Compared to the immaturity of the seniors, the young Jin Ho and Bo Mi displayed more responsibility. They were mostly naïve but did not display foolishness in deceit, thoughtless words, irresponsible drinking and abhorrent behaviour. I was displeased that the older Jin Woo encouraged Jin Ho to join him in the lie and secrecy of the basement den. Yu Jeong is at times demanding, but Jin Woo deciding to have alone time without the spouse’s knowledge smacks of a lot of distrust.
I was also heartily disapproving that Jin Woo decides to romance his wife as a means to distract her from going downstairs to investigate the secret den. She had made so many overtures to get his attention but he holds out on her until he has a secret to keep buried from her. It’s a deception that he lets her think he’s full of fire for her all of a sudden.
So there’s lots of growth required and 4 more episodes in which to portray that.
copying @GB’s comment here. She said this:
“I’m still watching the many couple relationships that Bora! Deborah is throwing up for us to ‘think about’. It is a show that tries to psychoanalyse people and relationships, which is interesting, but I take it with a pinch of salt,… since I do not know if this is just armchair psychology and what they say with such aplomb is really the case or not. Generally I feel we all do that kind of analysing to figure out what’s going on with the other persons… but we might be wrong.”
************
I agree, @GB, that it’s a fun exercise to psycho-analyze people and their relationships, and it’s more fun when it involves fictional characters from books and kdramas rather than real people we associate daily with.
With real people, our “fun” analysis can turn gossip-y. Or, when we remove our subjective feelings and speak honestly, our opinions may appear harsh, brutal and judgmental. Moreover, after things are said openly, no holds barred, it becomes inevitable that our interaction with them changes in tone.
With kdramas, it’s safer to speak objectively. I can’t hurt fictional characters. And if I’m wrong with the analysis, I just shrug it off. At the very least, I learned something new and useful for the next kdrama.
To me, this is one of the appeals of analyzing dramas. And this is one of the primary reasons I quit the soompi forums. The moderators and fangirls over there equated legit critical analysis of characters with personal attacks on their favorite actors, oppas and/or OTPs. It boggled the mind that, in this day and age, there were still people who couldn’t (or wouldn’t?) distinguish between characters and actors.
OTP = the lead couple. It stands for One True Pair.
So go ahead and psycho-analyze away the characters in “Bora! Deborah!” I like how they complement each other, visually and temperamentally.
@Kate, you’re right about the Mulder-Scully smouldering, chemistry. Every scene with them together was enigmatic, and ‘electrically charged’ although they just did their usual FBI investigative work LOL. It is indeed a good analogy to use that coupling as a backdrop to how this BR-SH coupling can work out. I like it slow and tentative, without any one being too bossy.
Oh yes, what I want for Louse is hellfire comeuppance LOL. His facial expressions are funny but I dislike them too!! His smirks, disbelief, dissatisfaction… all the expressions that I want to wipe off his face. I just want him to look contrite for a long time. If ever there was a victim-blaming, betraying scum bag…
@GB – Yes, Louse, deservedly, has it coming!
His appalling, instinctive gaslighting of Bo-rah – as you mention – and utter disloyalty as expressed in his organising his employees to distance him from her after her public melt down …speak to the truth of the man he is!
EPISODE 12 – Like a Scene From a Drama
I mentioned several couples above… there’s one more that appeared in EPISODE 12: Su Hyeok’s mum and his step-dad. Bo Ra is amazed that a senior couple still dated, walking hand-in-hand. This is the first healthy relationship we have been shown in this series. Among the relationships, theirs is like a scene from a drama.
SH’s mother’s love story (after her divorce) was sweet. His step-father fell in love with his mother at first sight
Su Hyeok : “He wanted to marry her right away. Little did he know she was six years older and had a son. Until they got married the opposition from their parents was so severe that it was quite dramatic.”
Bo Ra : “It really sounds like a story from a drama. Fearless, romantic younger man’s love story.” (However it was not a soap opera.)
SH suddenly leaps into psychoanalysis : “A child who witnesses his parents’ divorce learns something first before figuring out what love is. ‘People who were in love could no longer love each other.’ ‘Love can change.’ That’s the reason why I feel uncomfortable showing my emotions and surely have a problem with my love life, according to my mother’s analysis.” (He says it’s his mother’s analysis, but he seems to have bought into it.)
“As a child I hardly cried or smiled. I had my nose in a book all the time. She (his mother) was so curious about what was going on in my head. So she started studying child psychology late in the day. She got a PhD in child psychology.”
BR : “Wow. So does she say she understands you now?”
SH : “No. she said she can understand other kids, but it’s still hard to understand me.”
BR : “It’s always like that. Same here. Other’s romances are easy, but my romantic relationship is hard. The mind of a loved one is always complicated.” (It is likely that it’s that much harder to be objective with one’s loved one, hence the psychoanalysis fails.)
It’s hard to tell whether SH and BR are right in their analysis, however they believe what they say, and they feel that they have justified their flaws and failings.
BR’s turn to do psychoanalysis : “As a child, when you see your parents being at each other’s throats but not divorced, you know what they learn? ‘Revealing the very deepest emotions between a man and a woman is ugly.’ ‘It’s very meaningless and sad.’ That’s perhaps why it’s so hard for me to be honest in a romantic relationship.” (She may not have been honest in her relationship with Louse, but she was very honest with SH… while not thinking that she was in a romance with him. Is she being honest about believing that she’s not in a romance?)
SH looks at her questioningly.
BR : “Ah that’s according to my own analysis.”…”Anyways, that’s why I love dramas. At first, I turned the volume up on the TV ’cause I was sick of hearing them fight’. Seeing the characters slap each other on the face, throw water on the face, scream or run each other over with a car, was somewhat comforting to me.
I thought, ‘This is how people live.’ ‘My family is relatively normal.’ Only later did I realise that it was called a ‘soap opera.’ ”
It’s hard to tell whether SH and BR are right in their analysis, however they believe what they say, and they feel that they have justified their flaws and failings. However this does not excuse them from learning from their mistakes and growing.
Episode 11’s title is “Can’t Wait for Winter to Come.” It is a play on the movie mentioned in the previous episode, ‘500 Days of Summer’.
In the movie Tom fell in love with a girl named Summer, although he knew nothing about her and never did bother to see her as a person in her own right. Summer, unlike Tom, was not idealistic about romance/love and openly told him that she was not committed to their relationship. His naïve belief in all his ideals about love faded and the ending with Summer did not really have a good closure. He never acknowledges that the failure of the ‘love relationship’ which never really was, was his fault.
However the movie ends with him meeting another girl, named Autumn, who presumably he would start a relationship with, but without his first ever learning from his mistakes with Summer. He was going to go into another season of ‘romance’, presumably to make more of the same mistakes.
Somewhere in the episode, Bo Ra herself says that she can’t wait for Winter to come. As if a change in season would solve issues, without her first acknowledging them and tackling them head-on.
We get to watch if couples do get past their flawed relationships. The pre-wedding photoshoot shows one couple where the bride is typically demanding and the groom gets tired of pleasing her. Their fight is a right royal showdown with props broken. They do make up, but without looking into the source of the disagreement.
Su Hyeok and Yu Ri
Episode 11 has Yu Ri calling Su Hyeok over to see her because she remains uneasy about how they broke up. Su Hyeok belatedly says what YR had been wanting to hear all along, even when she was two-timing him. He had loved her and believed them to be in a relationship. That was why he’d never bothered to ask her officially to be his girlfriend. THAT had backfired royally!
He tells her that he’d intended to marry her, had even bought a ring, but she had broken up that very day. Yu Ri thinks she should not have listened to Bo Ra’s advice… as if blaming Bo Ra for her own decision.
YR asks if he was ok working with someone like BR, the type he cannot stand. She then asks if it was because BR had told him that she was two-timing him that he’d been cold to her when she gave him the wedding invitation. YR was desperate to think it was not because of what she was that the relationship failed. However she was mainly responsible. She should not have tried to blame BR.
SH corrects her impression immediately. He admits that he did not take the ring out because he found that he did not want to. “No matter how harshly you blamed and insulted me, I would have taken it out if I wanted to. That was just how far my heart could go.” Unlike YR, SH took responsibility for his own actions.
YR’s regret was for herself, in not getting what she wanted, in spoiling a good thing. However SH’s regret was that he’d taken so long to tell her all this so that she was vengeful and unable to move on. His regret was for her sake and not for his own. He congratulates her on her marriage.
YR is surprised that he can now say the words that she’d longed to hear. He says he plans to continue to do so in the future, probably with Bo Ra in mind.
At last YR has closure, but unknown to her, because her fiance comes and would be suspicious of SH, SH does even more to ensure that his presence would not affect her happiness with her husband-to-be. He plans to attend Yu Ri’s wedding with his ‘girlfriend’ to allay all suspicions.
Among all the characters, I like Su Hyeok the most, although we are following Bo Ra’s arc. He has demonstrated maturity, compassion, generosity. He is prepared to admit his mistakes, to forgive, to speak even when it’s difficult for him and he is either silent or truthful. It’s for Su Hyeok’s sake more than for Bo Ra’s that I want them to succeed in their pairing.
@GB picking up a smattering of your points…
I agree re your highlighting Borah’s honesty about who she is in romantic relationships coupled with what is a type of ‘it’s ok in the context of us exploring this’ dishonesty about what is actually happening between her and SH.
Thank you for that helpful account of the seasonal theme in Ep 11. When Bo-rah says she can’t wait for winter – SH smiles at her with a look of understanding. I wasn’t clear about the allusion and am clear now.
SH and YR – yes, so good that the unalloyed truth is aired and received and there is closure. I very much liked the non-presentation of the ring as symbolic of SH having come to the end of what he could offer YR. It made everything less random and more to do with the real truth of their potential. SH had fallen in love at first sight with Bo-rah years back. and we can see how persistent he is being with her as compared with the withholding version of him encountered by YR. Reminds me of the US film ‘He’s just not that into You’.
THOUGHTS ON BEING CONSIDERATE / RECIPROCITY / VOCALISING FEELINGS
@Kate
That’s so true. SH in love with Bo Ra seems to be quite different from SH when he thought he loved Yu Ri. Either way though, he has been considerate. That is a mark of a good person,… that they choose to do good whether or not they are expecting to receive something in return.
I wonder if it’s easier for SH to express his feelings now because he’s loosened up after spending so much time with Bo Ra who has revealed so much of her most embarrassing moments with him.
I like the end where Bo Ra tells him that the considerate things he does, Yu Ri will never know ie that women cannot read minds. Men have to say clearly what they have done or feel, so that their women can know and respond. This is something SH will need to put into practice with BR.
Thoughts on being considerate brings to mind how Uri insisted on saying her piece, confessing her feelings, although Sang Jin wanted to save her from that embarrassment by trying to avoid rejecting her specifically. His version of being considerate was to accept her proposal for the movie but to make it a company thing.
The silly girl should have taken the hint long before, but perhaps it’s a cultural thing, the love confession is a big deal and the people seem to need the relief of having made it, regardless of whether the love is reciprocated or not. I wonder if THAT is considerate though, to put the other party in a position where they have to listen to it and feel bad that they must reject the person/relationship.
In this show, for the men, consideration comes in the form of holding back.
SH took for granted that Yu Ri knew they were in a relationship and did not speak up. Even with Bo Ra he takes only tentative steps because it’s risky for both of them.
Sang Jin held back telling Su Jin about his financial woes until such a long time after the divorce (3 years?) not realising that it was inconsiderate of him to have not told her more, so that she could have gotten closure earlier. At least, she should not have been so angry for so long.
Jin Ho held back from kissing Bo Mi, however together with SH, he’s the more proactive of the guys. JH held back in consideration of what Bo Mi would want.
However Jin Woo’s holding back from giving his wife attention is inconsideration. He gives more priority to his men-only time or me-time. By the time Yu Jeong is around, his tiredness would drive him to sleep rather than to couple times.
By contrast the women are full of get-up-and-go, moving forward, making demands or making clear requests for what they want.
The couple with the best give-and-take now are SH and BR who are the unacknowledged couple. I like their reciprocity in agreeing to be ‘used’ as the pretend bf or gf. I like how the sharing of one invites the sharing of the other. It’s a pity that this bonding time will be truncated with Episode 13.
SH who remembers clearly that he was attracted to BR at first sight will need to be the one to put his feelings into words, in order to get a response from BR. As long as his gestures are ambiguous, and he answers her question on seduction with another question, she will always be afraid of reading more into what he is doing.
If/when Louse returns and states categorically that he wants to start again with BR, he will immediately take precedence, because SH did not say the words.
Sang Jin and Su Jin – a Troubling Attitude About Divorce
Sang Jin had gotten Su Jin to have dinner with him.
Sang Jin : “I don’t want to eat alone. I was cursed by someone (Su Jin) to eat alone for the rest of my life and to die out of loneliness.”
Su Jin : “That’s why I feel uncomfortable when I see you.”
Sang Jin gets Su Jin to listen at last to what he had been through before the divorce. He had lost a lot of money in the business, and was in debt, but he did not/could not tell her at that time.
Su Jin : “Why didn’t you tell me? Because you were ashamed?”
Sang Jin : “Maybe I was.”
Su Jin : “I guess I wasn’t someone you could rely on/share your troubles with. You must have felt very lonely.”
Sang Jin : “Back then I thought letting our marriage end was the least I could do for you.”
(If Sang Jin had stopped there I’d have been even more fed up with his backward logic. Keeping the marriage alive, letting her share some of the burden, pulling through together would have been the positive things to do. He gave in to whatever she said, maybe out of guilt or humiliation and took the path of least resistance. He at first justifies it as doing her a favour. Fortunately he adds the last line.)
Sang Jin : “But now I realised that I just didn’t have guts and I was a coward. I’m so sorry.”
Su Jin’s expressions had undergone several changes as she heard him out, and had softened.
Su Jin laughs and nods (first time we see a genuine smile on her face) : “Okay. That does it for me now.” (She has finally had some closure.) “It’s good enough for me.”… “I don’t regret that I married you. Thanks to you, I realised I want to stay single.”
She admits that she had thought him a crappy car but maybe it was she who had been a crappy car.
Su Jin : “I’m sorry that I blamed you for everything. Still, throughout all that, you said, ‘It’s all my fault. You were good for me.’ And you put up with my family’s resentment. Thank you for all that. Now let me lift my curse. Now go out and meet someone. Although we were crappy cars for each other, we might not be so for someone else.”
She clinks wine glasses with Sang Jin.
I disagree with Sang Jin because it seems to have never occurred to him that they might have made the marriage work if he’d communicated his problems. It’s so sad that divorce is seen as a solution, or as if it was a doing of a favour, instead of what it really is ie the failure to keep a commitment.
There’s something intrinsically shallow and wrong in the way relationships are portrayed, in the unrealistic expectations that are treated as acceptable, in the lack of understanding about marriage. I hope Show will correct the rather infantile perception of how every relationship should be like a fairy-tale romance otherwise it should be abandoned. The metaphor of the beat-up car and the Mercedes that is preferred only encourages the view that people are objects to be used, especially to augment image and status, and then discarded when no longer valued.
This attitude reminds me of irresponsible, complacent ‘Deborah’ of the early episodes. I trust that as Bora becomes more mature, Show will also reflect a more realistic and mature attitude.
@GB – so good to talk about this with you.
I loved the way you explored being considerate or not being considerate. I agree that Sang Jin has been considerate with ‘the girl’ (name escapes me too). His arranging for a group cinema date was in that vein exactly. She is indeed a silly girl – caught up in her dreams. She reminds me here a little of the girl in the third couple in ‘The Love You Give to Me’… although she is less entitled.
This business of ‘the confession’ and the- apparently -automatic right it confers on one person to blurt out their feelings to another person… I so agree with you. I think the show wants us to praise her bravery. She is in fact crossing too many boundaries – professional and to do with signs of reciprocity too.
Our divorced couple and their conversation. I was glad they conversed in the way they did. Your are right too that that conversation could have been differently read and acted upon. I would LOVE it if they rekindled their love based on this new information. Sadly, the show is not keen on that happening. Instead we have an awkward May to December relationship waiting in the wings which you and I , at least, do not buy. SJ needs a grown up woman in his life not a newly nubile fan!
Your critique of the shows assumptions is bang on – I hadn’t thought of it like that. The show also has the ex-wife realising she is happier single. There is a message here. But it doesn’t feel very positive in the context. She doesn’t spell out what her happiness entails and it is contrasted with a marriage where they didn’t communicate. He wanted to protect her and himself from the same of business failure.
Can we write in and ask for an alternative outcome for our divorced couple? A petition perhaps…
*the shame* of business failure.
Just watched the final two episodes… enjoyed them and have comments but will wait a little before posting.
I’ll have to comment now – otherwise, I’ll forget my impression.
SPOILER ALERT
I enjoyed the final two episodes with some caveats.
Episode 13
This was a disappointing narrative because Louse (Bo-rah’s ex) very cleverly re-insinuated himself into her life, sewing seeds of confusion in the ML’s mind.
In many ways, this is classic dark night before the dawn stuff… but still disappointing. We went from a happy ML listening to Deborah on his car radio as he drove to bring her flowers and a a gift, to defeated ML driving back home having seen Deborah getting into the Louse’s car.
In her voiceover she explained that although the relationship was over for her, the momentum of the old relationship still affected her. I guess she was talking about the power of her ex in wooing mode and the fact that that dynamic, his persistence and entitlement could still derail her.
The episode unfolds against the backdrop of ML’s misreading of her actions and her disappointment in his lack of confessing his feelings.
Episode 14
The denouement episode.
This show likes to play with our expectations. At one point Bo-rah hears footsteps behind her and hopes it is ML following her to tell her how he really feels. The footsteps get closer to her and then we see an unknown man rush past her.
The drunk dialling event – often this is the point where there is a confession and resolution. This drunk dialling event with desperate ML dropping his guard and mumbling at FL does reveal his feelings to her but she still decides they are through!
She wants more than hints and gestures and allusions to ‘a lavender haze’. She wants a straightforward confession of his feelings.
We get the confession nearing the end of the episode with an unusually inarticulate ML finally conveying (Bridget Jones anyone?) that he loves her as she is and can’t isolate any one quality.
Why he has hesitated in expressing this confession – rather downbeat because it took so much extracting – is – for me at least – unclear.
So, I wasn’t jumping around in my own lavender haze of joy in the final episode but simply relieved instead that they had got together and the knot had been unknotted.
Other thoughts on Episode 14
I actually believed briefly the Louse was sincere and then he showed his true colours – albeit modified in the way he used a Mother Chicken box to present Bo-rah with a ring … a bit of self-mockery there??? As our FL said – people don’t really change. True in the case of smooth-talking lice (plural of louse?) who know how to use a break up and bad behaviour on their part to create a sense of obligation in the victim of that behaviour!!
Director and assistant: I am not keen at all on the Father-Daughter type relationship that emerges in this episode and is presented to us as a new dating relationship. But I know that @GB agrees and that is a comfort.
I rather liked the resolution of the irritating couple’s relationship problems ie the loud wife and lazy husband. Perhaps it was a little too easy – but this is dramaland.
@Kate,
I’ve just finished Ep 13 and 14 some 10 minutes ago and my mind is in a haze (not lavender LOL, just a haze).
As expected the series ends with all the relationships getting on all hunky dory. It looked like the series was originally meant to end in a December of some year or other, so that the sentimentality and cheer of Christmas would add that extra boost or vice versa, ie the show would have boosted Christmas cheer. Heh!
What I felt was a bit of a cop out… but I gather the series was in a hurry to finish off at Ep 14, hence the shortcuts. (But why finish at 14, I wonder?)
One was that instead of having a scene play out so that SH could lead into revealing his feelings, SH had to be made super drunk first. In addition, Bo Ra gets to read the card that should have been given to her earlier, not because SH gives it to her, but because he’d passed out and she was snooping. While it’s good that she finally knows how he feels, it’s not quite right that she finds out this way.
The other cop out was that Yu Jeong does not have a proper talk with Jin Woo after their argument, but gets to hear that he loves her and knows she loves him by eavesdropping on his conversation with Jin Ho. Fortunately that makes her all willing to wait and listen to Jin Woo so that they can make up. What a difference in her from the woman who was controlling and nay-saying regardless of what husband wanted to ask her.
There’s this thing that dramas make a big deal of… the right time for something to happen. I sometimes wonder about that. Would telling YJ about the basement den early on have led to a showdown about how he should not be wasting time on games, or would they have had more fun game nights together, earlier?
I might agree that SH was not entirely wrong to hesitate, out of consideration that he might get in the way of Bo Ra and Louse, however the big mistake (in most dramas, to make the relationship dramatic) is that the concerned party is not consulted first. Just ask Bo Ra for heaven’s sake, instead of guessing what she might prefer.
However how about this alternative scenario: how about if he’d disregarded Louse’s manipulations and just told Bo Ra he liked her and let her choose. That would have cleared all doubts and reduced the hesitation. We could have ended at Episode 13! LOL.
It was a great relief to me that Bo Ra decided to act because SH couldn’t vocalise his feelings. However (and I agree @Kate), one would have expected her to then suggest that they could try out proper dating, rather than break-up.
I feel that she put too much store on the words to be spoken directly. As @FGB mentioned… from a man’s point of view, the actions, the consideration without many words, are sometimes evident enough.
The other alternative was that she wanted to give him an indirect ultimatum without ‘threatening’ him. IE she wanted to walk away and for him to take action to ‘chase’ her. However SH is the kind of person who has to think long and hard. Not only that, it took the many words of Bo Ra’s essay to finally galvanise him into action.
I found his messy, unprepared confession rather endearing. He didn’t take the easy way out by saying that he just like everything about her. He actually tried to name all their moments.
I did like the epilogue of collages of all the different couples.
I do still find the pairing of young U-Ri with Sang Jin, a mismatch. I hope he gives her many years of growing and meeting lots of other people as well. It seems too soon for such a young person to be tied down without experiencing more.
If I can, I’d like to rewatch bits and pieces because other thoughts passed through my mind quickly as I watched, and are now forgotten. I’ll be back to add more thoughts when I can.
Hi @GB,
Good stuff!
I didn’t mind SH’s confession – it was just that I felt we had waited too long for it. It was somewhat dragged out of him by the ultimatum-type situation and by then , for me at least, too much talking and debating and questioning had happened – too much pushing and prompting by our FL.
I will re-watch and see if was my tiredness last night that reduced my tolerance for this!
Perhaps, in view of your point about his strong introvert’s need to chew things over this was realistically reflected in the pace of the reveal.
@Kate, I began thinking about what I’d hoped for in the ending and checking if any of it happened … at least a beginning, but I’m too sleepy.
I’ll be back!
Great @GB!
I think my deflation may be because SH seemed to me to be a tad unmanned by Bo-rah’s taking charge of her emotions and her empowerment. Even the introverted SH was courting her assiduously and taking risks and dropping heavy hints. He was about to present her with flowers and jewellery and she hopped in a car with Louse just at the critical moment he was going to take the next step!
Thereafter, he was always at a disadvantage in the unfolding narrative. On the back foot not on the front foot. So, for me, some of the polarity between them drained out and we were left with an endearing but arm twisted confession!
They were very happy after that. It didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. But I would have preferred it other.
@Kate, I’m in two minds about whether it was really necessary for SH to put into spoken words what he’d already shown in his actions and in the written word in his card. I felt that Show was milking the lack of verbalising his feelings unnecessarily. It made Bo Ra seem rather unreasonable that she would not accept that he liked her, even after he drunkenly told her not to get back together with Louse and read the card he wrote about being in a lavender haze because of her.
While it’s nice to hear the words, I’d have thought that the written word was more binding. However Show has made BR stick to what she said about the woman never knowing until the man tells her in words. Somehow I’m not convinced by this.
BR concludes (and so does Sang Jin) that he refused to swallow his pride to commit by saying clearly that he likes her, but this might not be the right interpretation.
I said above: SH psychoanalyses himself : “A child who witnesses his parents’ divorce learns something first before figuring out what love is. ‘People who were in love could no longer love each other.’ ‘Love can change.’ That’s the reason why I feel uncomfortable showing my emotions and surely have a problem with my love life, according to my mother’s analysis.” (He says it’s his mother’s analysis, but he seems to have bought into it.)” – So are we to understand by this that he thinks BR can or has easily shifted from caring for him to caring for Louse?
Just the thought that BR might get back with her ex is enough to paralyse SH. Plus the fact that Sang Jin and others would approve. He can’t bring himself to call BR or even leave her a message.
Later he even lets Louse’s words affect him further. He does not want to be the bad guy if Louse’s start over relationship with Bo Ra was what BR wanted. He puts his feelings last. But he never asked BR!!
In the end I’m not convinced by him either. I feel that he is merely suffering the drama-land cliche (so it really was like a drama!) of never asking the girl what she really wanted. Some call it the noble idiot trope. Or to be nicer, he wrongly had over-the-top feelings of responsibility for someone else’s happiness and decided it for them, when he should have listened to the real desires of the other party or let them choose.
I very much agree @GB. Nicely analysed. It IS the writing and the apparent need for a ‘cliff hanger’ moment between them. Their relationship didn’t need that to be interesting. I am also, on reflection, sympathetic to the plight of the writers… how to create that ‘finale feel’ to everything! Our leads were on a steady trajectory… what could possibly go wrong at this point. Enter villain stage left.
Flowers, card and being in a ‘lavender haze’, jewellery… from a man who has not been known for romantic gestures… huge…+ all the things he has done and said building up to that point… Bo-rah could easily have seen ‘ the writing on the wall’ (positively speaking) at that point. He was pretty vulnerable with her.
I was even more surprised by his capitulation to the way the manipulative ex was spinning things. Again I think you’re right. That premature capitulation and not checking with Bo-rah what was happening… felt too ill-considered, knee-jerk a choice for that thoughtful observant character at that point. SH had enough evidence of her interest in him + he heard the radio show and the way Deborah was trying to put off her ex from coming to see her and confess all and start again!
They had built up a mutual trust, vulnerability, support … in the face of betrayal in their previous relationships.
It didn’t feel romantic for both of them to mistrust the other at a key point in their relationship and in the face of a lot of positive evidence to the contrary!
Their relationship was interesting enough already… But I do see the problem with the traditional expectations of the finale!
I am trying to work out what I would have done to make that last episode zing in a way that is true to the development of their relationship thus far!
@Kate, yes precisely. Something does not ring true or convincing for me in the reactions/thoughts/actions of the main characters. I liked the beginning, the premise, the room for growth. @WE who watched just the beginning so far thought the writing was smart. I know I was highly entertained, even while deploring the immaturity of the characters.
However in the last 2-3 episodes, I began to feel that something was lacking. The happily-ever-afters were brought about quickly… without the characters fully allowed to earn them. Not enough getting to the root of issues by both parties before the celebrations.
Strangely, this happens after the great conversations leading to peaceful closures of the ones who broke up. I was maybe surprised that those who broke up had better closure conversations than the ones who decided to stick together had resolution-and-let’s-work-together conversations. The Writer(s) were maybe suddenly told to hurry it along and just bring about a happy ending? That was one of the reasons why I wondered why we ended on an Ep 14 instead of 16. 2 more episodes would have given more than ample time to iron out the kinks.
= = =
One of the conversations I imagined BR should have had with SH was:
‘I know you have great difficulty putting your feelings into words. You can tell me why later. However I am convinced that you care about me a great deal. Your actions have shown it over and over again. You even expressed it in your card and in the thoughtful gift. So if you can’t put it into words, how about showing me in action? If after this you still wish to walk away, then it’s your choice, but I’m staying by your side, because that’s my choice.’ BR could just go for a free hug and a kiss and see if SH responds, and he’d BETTER!!! Or SH might have had a change of mind and followed his heart, to swoop in for the kiss first.
Now, that’s the kind of couple resolution I’d like to see.
= = =
Yes, I pity the writers. I didn’t continue watching that crazy cdrama where the ‘Owner’ of the Drama kept changing what he wanted the Main Lead (ie himself) to do, to be, to wear, so that the Writer was harassed by and fed up with him.
On re-reading what I posted before this, I just realised that the post was actually originally part of a longer piece I wrote about BR wanting her romance to be drama-like. Hence I made bold, the word ‘drama’. I guess I’ll try and re-write it to make sense and post it later. 🙂
Bo Ra’s Wishes Fulfilled
BR imagines a scenario where SH is to give her away in marriage to Louse. However she refuses to have her hand given to Louse.
BR’s Voiceover : “Instead I want to march down the aisle with him (SH) arm-in-arm. And I had hopes of falling in love with someone who, perhaps, would love me for the way I am. I had hopes that something like a drama might happen to me.”
Well BR kinda-sorta got her wish fulfilled. In Ep 14, SH tried to act like a character in a drama to win BR back but it backfired slightly because she didn’t mean that she wanted him to do impressions.
As for being loved for the way she was, well SH bothered to name all the ‘weird’ stuff she’d done that somehow never repelled him. But before that, SH does the weirdest thing himself … I don’t know which movie or show this comes from now, but it sounds familiar. Instead of saying he loves her, he asks her if he loves her LOL. What a cop out!!!
The scene:
In the presence of two-timing Louse whom BR rejects, Da Mi dares to take issue with BR. BR however turns Da Mi around in the direction of Louse who’s the real offending party.
SH arrives, hears her telling Da Mi to change direction and turns BR around to face him : “It’s this direction in which you should be looking now.” BR is stunned to see him.
SH sees that Louse has noticed him.
SH : “Now’s the time to grab your wrist and exit.” (Line from a script?)
She’s puzzled but offers him her right arm which he grabs as he pulls her away.
SH to BR on a bridge outdoors : “By any chance, do you I like you?”
BR is stunned that he’s asking her.
SH : “Do I like you?”
BR : “How would I know?” (Come on girl, of course you know. You just want to make him sweat.)
He puts her hand on his chest : “You are in here.” (Cheesy much?)
BR pulls her hand away : “Are you kidding me? Is this why you came? To mess with me?”
SH : “No, you wanted me to do something like a drama.” (Hence the wrist grab lol.)
BR : ” ‘Like’ a drama. It’s just a figure of speech. Did I tell you to do impressions? Is it so hard to tell me directly. If you like me, just tell me you do. Tell me straight out why you like me.”
SH :”You think that’s easy for me?”
He says he does not know why he loves her.
SH :”Did I fall in love when you cursed at the Golden Night party?” … When challenged he just names the things he noticed she did.
SH :”I just like you for all that you are. Your singing or your weird poses for the camera. I don’t understand either, so I can’t explain anymore.”
BR : “So you like me no matter what I do. Is that what you mean?”
SH : “I tried not to but I just cannot resist. Whatever you do…nothing can make me stop liking you.”
(So this is SH’s confession in passive form? Not that ‘I like you because’… but ‘no matter what I tried, I could not dislike you/resist liking you’? So BR is to be happy because he tried but failed to NOT LIKE her? LOL This really does sound messed up. He liked her in spite of himself and in spite of her issues. He should just have repeated what he told her friends before, that he fell for her at first sight and never stopped liking her since.)
BR and SH together behave like kids with aegyo, speaking in irritating, high pitched voices. Bo Mi and Jin Ho (and I) are aghast at them. (Not cute! LOL.)
More on Drama
SH is anxious to hear Louse’s voice on air speaking with BR and saying that he intends to start over with her. He arrives too late to intercept Louse at the carpark, and is upset to see BR getting into Louse’s car. Sang Jin rubs salt into his wound by cheering for Louse to get back with BR to increase the book sales, since getting back with one’s ex was perfect storytelling marketing.
Sang Jin says that Louse had made a wholehearted confession like a man who had surrendered to love. It was almost like a drama. “It’s so romantic. What kind of woman wouldn’t be swayed by that? It even made my heart flutter.”
This becomes a sore point with SH who cannot make a wholehearted confession [except when he was pretending to be BR’s boyfriend!!!] When BR said she wanted love like a drama, she wanted this scenario with SH. Unfortunately SH was not the kind of leading man in a romance drama who’d show himself as surrendering totally to love. He spent too long thinking, without putting his thoughts into words.
So when he finally decided to go for it, he chose the ‘drama’ route LOL. I feel he should have just kept to the written word. He’s a ‘book’ man after all. Ah, but silly Bo Ra wanted to hear the spoken word. *sigh*. There are many ways to communicate and one way does not necessarily make the message more sincere than another.
Jin Woo and Yu Jeong
After many failed attempts to spend quality time together, YJ finds out that Jin Ho has been secretly living in their basement, that JW has been secretly spending alone time there, that even Bo Mi is in on it but not herself… and to make matters worse, Jin Woo lies as he tries to pass all the blame to Jin Ho.
The sore point with YJ is that she was the one to propose to Jin Woo, rather than the other way around. It seems to have contributed to make her insecure and controlling. JW is sick of her using the proposal in their arguments.
JW finds, and YJ admits that whatever he says she won’t believe him. He had lost her trust. She claims that he’d changed from the man she wanted to marry. Now he’s just an emotionally detached ahjusshi.
Jin Woo says that if he has changed so has Yu Jeong.
JW : “You always complain about everything I say. You hate whatever I do. You say no to everything. That’s why I can’t say anything. Why would I? You won’t listen anyway.”
JW does not see what’s wrong with wanting me-time for himself. He has forgotten that an important part of marriage is honesty, trust, and openness as opposed to keeping secrets from each other.
Instead of acknowledging that she might have been in the wrong as well in not supporting some of JW’s interests, YJ points out that JW has prioritised her and their time together as the last thing on the list of what he wants to do. Thoughts of divorce very soon fill her mind, but it seems to be the farthest thing from JW’s mind.
Following Su Jin’s advice about not unilaterally announcing a divorce, YJ goes down to the basement den to hear JW out before deciding on whether to divorce him or not. She overhears the conversation between JW and JH that removes thoughts of divorce from her mind.
JW : “I was daunted by the idea of marriage, so I thought I’d never marry.” He got married because Yu Jeong asked him to.
JH : “That’s your reason?”
JW : “Yes. If it was someone else, I wouldn’t have. …(he names YJ’s failings) I said yes only because it was YJ who asked.”
JH : “I’m a bit confused. You do love her, right?”
JW : “Of course/without doubt. Why? Can’t you tell? YJ keeps asking me that.” (The way some men interpret a show of love is different from how women might. And this also goes for the way he shows it.)
JH : “Your expressions are a bit …”
JW : “Love is like air. You die without it. The problem is you can’t see it. But I can tell even if YJ doesn’t tell me. When I fall asleep on the couch, I’m covered with a blanket.”
JH : “You call that love?”
JW : “Of course, that’s love.” LOL JH says that the stuff he just said would win YJ’s favour and they both scramble to remember what JW had just said. YJ laughs to herself.
Later JW deliberately fakes wanting to sleep on the couch. Having been cued, YJ covers him with a blanket to show him that she loves him. He finally hugs her and says he loves her.
JW : “I didn’t change. I got used to you. I didn’t cool off at all. I’m getting warm. but I can promise you one thing. I will always be warm. He takes out the wedding ring that she’d left somewhere and he asks her “Would you trust me and stay with me for life?”
She laughs and nods.
He promises that he’d always look out for her.
It was a sweet resolution but something was lacking. JW had previously said that he had done nothing wrong… er how about the lies, deceit? He needs to examine himself a lot more. YJ had also been too quick to jump to the divorce route, to wanting her own way without consulting JW, and to basically not listening much to him. The root cause of why they had different needs and motives that neither party supported or helped fulfill was not openly addressed. Maybe it would be better to address those issues at a later time anyway.
At least in the area of not shouting down everything that JW said, YJ had improved. She decided to listen and nod rather than interject her comments or attack. JW had also become more aware of YJ’s needs and improved (and was even better than SH) in that he could actually tell YJ that he loved her. Not perfect but no one and no relationship is.
@GB,
Your solution for SH and BR. I could see that, or something in that vein, working really well!
Her being empowered didn’t have to disempower him and could instead, affirm his courtship of her.
As it turned out, Louse proposed with all the bells and whistles and that wasn’t any more solid or meaningful a commitment than his previous non-verbalising of his love. Words are words. Character and true intent is the key here or, at least, words need to flow from demonstrations if intent and character.
You have provided a very nice moment for our revised finale!
@Kate, many thanks for your kind words. I felt strongly that something was missing in what was left unsaid and just filled in what I’d have said.
You’ve made a very good point. Why on earth should anyone (especially females, I gather) insist on grand gestures, formal proposals and the spoken “I love you(s)” when in the end we see how Louse did ALL that but it meant absolutely zilch to him.
He was wonderfully attentive while being completely deceitful. Give me the honest, awkward and verbally undemonstrative SH anytime!!!
I was making a comment elsewhere and realised the great irony. It’s not that SH cannot do ALL those things that Louse does, we saw how he was SO ABLE to sweep any female off her feet when he pretended to be dating Bo Ra. He was able to say without a hint of embarrassment that he fell for Bo Ra from first seeing her. He was just fine with method acting.
It’s when he’s dead serious that he gets tongue tied.
Yes, indeed. Character and true intent is key. I only agree that a person should make their intentions clear whether verbally or in writing so as to be unambiguous. And since SH had done that in his card, there was no need to prolong the agony by choosing to not understand him.
One thing that Show somewhat depicts but did not make evident, and which I feel it should have is to highlight that in relationships, compromise and lots of give and take is key. I found mostly the females being rather demanding and entitled in their attitude towards the men. I don’t recall if there ever was one conversation or voiceover among the ladies that allowed that people were different and one should accept the pluses and minuses without resentment. I know we hear JW and SH speaking of how their ladies have failings which they cannot help but embrace because they loved them/couldn’t resist them etc but it is not the same as saying that a committed relationship is worth working at.
Continued below …
Continuation…
I was looking for more depth by the end of the series but all we had at the end, based on the last paragraphs of BR’s essay is some commonplace points about relationships being open ended and that there should be no regret whether couples break up or not as long as they were true to love.
From Bo Ra’s essay as ready by SH.
It began by saying that every relationship/romance had an ending.
“Just like anyone who is in love, we also shared this common belief. That we’ll reach a perfect happy ending like, ‘And they loved happily ever after.’ Like we come to believe again that Santa may be real. But our love is neither a perfect happy ending or a sad ending. It’s an open ending. There’s no such thing as a strategy for love that never fails. Promises will be broken, love will change in the course of time.
“Some may say, ‘After making all that fuss, you guys ended up splitting up,’ when our relationship ends at some unknown point. Still we will not regret that. Like we live though we know we’ll die someday, and like we buy flowers though we know they will wilt, like we sadly say goodbye though we’ll see each other again tomorrow, like we make promises that we can’t keep sometimes, like we buy stuff that is useless, we are true to love every possible moment from the bottom of our hearts. We are true to love.”
Too facile? Too pat? Does every relationship really have an ending or is happily-ever-after only an ending in a story but actually a continuation in real life? Does the idea that love is meant to be worked at with commitment, first, and not jumping quickly to thoughts of a break-up as a solution, no longer resonate with modern audiences?
As for Bo Mi’s shotgun wedding, she was just fortunate that JH is an upright and sincere bf. However they are still at the very beginning of their relationship and have many storms to weather.
During the Christmas gift exchange, we can see that U-Ri’s gift was not appropriate for Sang Jin. He was uncomfortable with the bright yellow hoodie. They are still mismatched. Lots more storms for this couple too.
I’ve already written at length about the immature married couple.
I felt that the overall message of the drama was somewhat lacking. It amounted to ‘Yeah, in romance we love as truly as we can, and we make sure we are also true to ourselves, but nothing can be guaranteed, so we can break up, and that’s okay.’
I rather preferred the other message where BR told SH: “I don’t need reassurance from someone else for the choices I make. Whether it’s a happy ending or a sad one, I have to write my own ending.” This somehow felt more weighty, while it didn’t go as far as I’d like.
So I give this show a B for entertainment and a C- for its attempt to give some ‘advice’ about romance and loving.
Hi again @GB,
Can’t add much to what you put so well here. But I will underline some of the stuff I am in particular agreement with.
i) Entitled feminine voices in the show – yes! Aside from our unsuitably young publishing assistant… although she was a tad demanding about making a confession to her boss! There is something of an imbalance here – possibly in reaction to some of the ways women get treated in other dramas???
ii) The buying the bunch of flowers speech… YES…I had forgotten about some of the ‘let’s take things as they come’ voiceovers … disappointingly blah about the potential of committed relationships to weather the storms of life and deepen in time. Yes — rather pat, rather facile… AND contradicts the progress our main couples make in committing to one another as they are. SH can’t but love BR as the woman she is. That speaks of a love that can go the distance.
I give the show B+ for entertainment. But it does rather get lost in its desire to please the contemporary audience (whoever they are!!) and to avoid any notions of commitment through thick and thin.
What’s the next Show you’ll be watching, @Kate? Are there any more light rom-coms that tickle your fancy?
@GB – I’m looking around at the moment! I will report when anything strikes me as a good prospect!
I took a quick look at a c-drama ‘Here we meet again’ https://www.viki.com/tv/39845c-here-we-meet-again … but didn’t find it well written.
How about you?
@Kate, I have not found a rom-com but I thought of giving this 12-episode cdrama a look-see:”Oh No Here Comes Trouble” after watching AvenueX’s review. It’s rare for her to give a 3 gold mine rating for shows and at that time, she already graded it before it finished airing. It just finished its run on 13 May.
Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAysLj3eUkg
It is an interesting mixture of supernatural-comedy-detection kind of show, possibly without a romance.
The other one is the show I mentioned in the ‘WAWW in May’ Thread, the 11-episode jdorama: “Silent”. Again not a rom-com but there’s romance and family and a bit of melodrama. @Welmaris also gave her review of it on that thread.
The Kfangurl review: https://thefangirlverdict.com/2023/05/28/review-silent-japan/
I actually have a long list of shows, but no rom-coms!!! LOL. I’ll keep looking around too. 🙂
Hi @GB,
‘Silent’ appeals. Will check it out and the review and @Welmaris’s review. I have yet to commit to a J-drama – this could be the first.
There is a new Bai Jing Ting rom com due in the middle of June…’Destined’… I loved and then lost interest in his previous Rom Com – but this could be good.
Keeping my eyes peeled…
Thanks for the alert @Kate, I’ll also watch out for the Bai Jing Ting drama.
Let me know when you start Silent … we may want to have a chance to discuss it as we watch. It may be easier to get into it and stick with it, with company. 🙂
Sorry, left in Episode 9 after the young couple’s confession. Did not like the characters, some conversations were really good but checking the DramaBeans Weecaps they ended doing a thing I don’t like in writing: they didn’t tell the whole story. So when Yu-Ri happened to be dating two people at the same time the interactions between her and Su-Hyeok became less relatable and mature. It became a bad woman two-timing a good person, so the lessons learned from their previous interactions got diluted.
Its writing was uneven. It is sad because it could have been great.
@FGB, that’s so true. It did not really occur to me. The good points made before about declaring one’s love clearly lose their impact when the recipient of our compassion and the declaration, proves themselves unworthy.
Even if Su Hyeok had taken out the ring and proposed, and Yu Ri had accepted, we could never stomach their union once we found out that Yu Ri had another bf on the side. It was just as well that SH had never declared himself.
It just occurred to me that Yu Ri was two-timing Su Hyeok while Ju Wan (Louse) was two-timing Bo Ra. I thought it was wonderfully gracious of Su Hyeok to go to Yu Ri’s wedding and to wish her well, while knowing that she’d betrayed him.
Love to read you always @GB!
Su Hyeok by going to her wedding with Bo-Ra not only showed Yu-Ri that she has been trascended at that point, but that he found a person he knew both at her most charming and at her most vulnerable, pitiful and unlovely. At the end of the day it is a fool’s errand for a single person like me to be preachy about it, but if Marriage as a Vow has any substance it should contain all what Life has to give: poverty, opulence, good times, bad ones, surviving parenting and so forth.
I have been uninspired lately. I guess there are lots of good Dramas out there, it is just I can’t find their charm at this moment. And I know it is most probably me.
Would love to share some epic Dramas like “The King: Eternal Monarch” and “Hotel del Luna” with you all!
Love to you and all our Friends,
FGB
@FGB, the sentiment is the same. We love to read you too!
These are not epic in terms of scale of production, but in terms of thoughtfulness, inspiration and of being provocative. Currently watching and commenting on ‘One Day Off’ and hope to do the same for jdorama ‘Silent (2022)’. Please join us if you feel like it! 🙂
Hi. I ended the drama. A bit nebulous in my mind now.
It was a full happy ending. All couples almost solve their problems.
I read a bit your comments so I can remember a bit better the two last episodes.
Reading your comments about it’s better to explore characters mind in a drama and speak about that, rather than speak about real life people. Indeed in real life, we can be wrong and say hurtful words for useless reason.
I made a comment in a screenwriting forum about subtext/characters psychology. It helps a bit, but anyway, it’s difficult to apply and always think about it while creating scenes and dialogues. But in a drama based mostly on relationship, the writer should have that in mind. And so, it’s frustrating for the audience when you feel the character doesn’t grow or doesn’t do what you would like they do. But there is probably something behind that.
BoRa is the kind of drama I wonder how I could write that, like I would be unable to do it. So of course, I was hooked fast by the drama, because the writer do something interesting with that. It’s not boring. Of course I can write characters, interactions but with also a plot and lot of thrilling events. But only a relationship drama? It takes a lot of time. Deep psychology scenes takes much more time to write and think than action scenes.
Ok the list of subtext level:
No subtext: the characters do and say what they think.
Subtext: the character don’t do or say what they think. Because it’s too painful, embarassing, a secret, a weakness, or hard to say. They hide it. But often, the scene make us understand they hide that.
Unconscious: here is a level much more difficult to think about or write. The character do or say something, but doesn’t know why. It’s reactions and choices made by a deep mind in them. They are not conscious of this. And it can create at first level reading irrational choices. But the truth is most of what we do or say is from that.
Psychic ocean: It’s the continuation of the previous level but on a larger scale, involving more than one people, and even the whole world. Dialogue between two characters for example, no one of them is aware of why they say this or that, and answering, fighting maybe. It’s possible to see that when in a special state of awarness but I must say, not the daily case. Or maybe some people can trigger that more often and live more aware of their whole mind, and general mind of the world.
The inner psychic life can be connected with outside world events. So a fun example, the garbage truck in this drama. But the scene made that explicit as it’s in their dialogue. Imagine that but without making it explicit.
Now, we add a additional dimension: the writer mind. As writing characters and dialogues and situations… The inner hidden mind of the writer and the one of the world interfere. So you write something and you don’t know why. It’s only after proofreading that maybe you discover why, and what is the hidden links of this with the whole story.
Writing a scene with two characters who say and do without them knowing why: it’s difficult. Difficult to think about doing that, difficult to set as it needs a deep understanding of the character when we never understand fully ourselves. And difficult because it needs to be set in a way the audience can understand. But even when the audience doesn’t understand, I think the deep psychology enters and it makes sens. Well, maybe it doesn’t make sens for everyone, depending on how people are open-minded and ready to catch human psychology even when they don’t understand it consciously.
I gather you’re responding to @pkml3 on what she and I said about it being easier to speak of/analyse fictional characters rather than real people.
You do make your point, that while we can easily deconstruct the character’s thoughts and motives, the writer who constructed them may have /would have had so much to consider and might not even have known why his own characters say what, (or behave the way) they do. LOL.
The pains of screen-writing!