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Will contain spoilers.
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169 Comments On “Lost You Forever: Eps 37 to 39 Open Thread”
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I’m leaving a post here so that I’ll not miss anyone’s comment!
I confess that decided to jump the gun and decided to watch the raw episodes until the end. Good to the end of Season 1 and I leave the Show with a smile. It was not a cliffhanger ending, thank goodness!! Kudos to all the creative and production teams!
Here’s the fullest playlist of the album I’ve seen, with the vocal and instrumental OSTs and both the Chinese and English translations that read well or at least better. Kudos to Sarann!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfLN4F1m0z8
I am amazed at the number of pieces of music that has been composed for this work. Such amazing mood setters and crucial accompaniments to every emotional beat. Kudos to the composers and musicians!
I look forward to Season 2 and to rewatching everything with subs!!!
😉😍🤔🫣🤭🤫🥰😋😢😱😲😬🙂😁😇
EPISODES 37 AND 38
Oh my, I’ve reached the penultimate episode and am still all chuffed.
I have not figured out the strategy that enabled escape while throwing suspicion on others, but I guess, I may not care. Or if I really need to have it figured out, I’ll go read it up somewhere.
Back to rewatch Episodes 24 onwards that laid the path to the end of Season 1.
Just watched Eps 37 and 38
Very strong episodes still.
Just a few SUPER quick comments while they are fresh.
Ep 37 – Loved the water scenes – ‘Come and have fun with me!’ … ‘Why not?
and the playful push pull of the dialogue. Refreshing to have XY and XL together and all that we learned in that scene about XY’s capabilities. A shame we narrowly missed a kiss…
Ep 38 – Responding to your point above… Was the suspicion thrown by casting doubt on the assertions of the 5th Prince? Did 5th Prince really think CX was stupid enough to have assassins marked with a clear identifier of CX? No 5th Prince did not think CX stupid. In which case what was 5th Prince up to etc making to neat but wrong a judgement?
I am not sure about whether the fight sequence was strategy or unexpected. Nice to see XY in action with her wonder bow.
What were FFB’s motives and goals?
I really appreciated too the conversations about love, realism about love, transactional approaches to love etc etc etc
More when we discuss in detail.
The reason we are still engrossed is because the story is so well established.
The logic of the story, the characters, their histories, wounds and aspirations then energises and pushes forward each development.
No spare fat or meat on these bones eh?
Fascinating that XY talks about human powerlessness in the face of the big two – birth and death. She argues from there to the futility of trying to change anything or strive for what we want in life. If it is not given to us why upset ourselves when we are ultimately powerless?
CX is more pragmatic and shares his philosophy which is – essentially – God helps those who help themselves!
I love that this drama dips in and out of the big questions in life and wraps those questions around the real experiences and emotional histories of our lead characters.
https://www.facebook.com/1103472699/videos/308529148364335?idorvanity=374673724446311
A live performance of the central song by Yisa Yu… tricky song… but still beautiful.
Long Love Sickness – Yisa Yu
破命运的谜语
po ming yun de mi yu
Break the riddle of destiny
看世间的流离
kan shi jian de liu li
Watch the transience of the world
爱的宿命 亦步亦趋
ai de xiu ming yi bu yi qu
The destiny of love, keeps pace
难逃避
nan tao bi
Hard to escape
我置身于世外
wo zhi shen yu shi wai
I stand aloof from the world
垂下眉眼只观心
chui xia mei yan zhi guan xin
Lowering my brows, watching my heart
不听不看 守着爱
bu ting bu kan shou zhe ai
Not listening or looking, guarding this love
心系你
xin xi ni
My heart is with you
Reff
每一晚孤零零的月光里
mei yi wan gu ling ling de yue guang li
In every lonely moonlit night
前尘如烽烟起 回忆里满是你
qian chen ru feng yan qi hui yi li man shi ni
Past events rise like beacon fires, memories filled with you
集齐天地间的桀骜和不羁
ji qi tian di jian de jie ao he bu ji
Gathering all the arrogance and freedom in this world
每一刻孤单单的时光里
mei yi ke gu dan dan de shi guang li
In every lonesome moment
思念它弥漫起 天地间只有你
si nian ta mi man qi tian di jian zhi you ni
Longing rises and fills the earth and sky, only you exist
兑换骄傲 执手一生去
dui huan jiao ao zhi shou yi sheng qu
Exchanging pride, holding hands for life
送一颗心别离 要一个归期
song yi ke xin bie li yao yi ge gui qi
Giving a heart of parting, asking for a date of return
那些绵绵无绝期 丢给时间去
na xie mian mian wu jue qi diu gei shi jian qu
Those lingering periods of time, give to time
送一个人游历 要一个相遇
song yi ge ren you li yao yi ge xiang yu
Sending someone on a journey, waiting for an encounter
那些相思无尽处 等一场落雨
na xie xiang si wu jin chu deng yi chang luo yu
Those endless longings, wait for a rain to fall
每一晚孤零零的月光里
mei yi wan gu ling ling de yue guang li
In every lonely moonlit night
前尘如烽烟起 回忆里满是你
qian chen ru feng yan qi hui yi li man shi ni
Past events rise like beacon fires, memories filled with you
集齐天地间的桀骜和不羁
ji qi tian di jian de jie ao he bu ji
Gathering all the arrogance and freedom in this world
每一刻孤单单的时光里
mei yi ke gu dan dan de shi guang li
In every lonesome moment
思念它弥漫起 天地间只有你
si nian ta mi man qi tian di jian zhi you ni
Longing rises and fills the earth and sky, only you exist
兑换骄傲 执手一生去
dui huan jiao ao zhi shou yi sheng qu
Exchanging pride, holding hands for life
执手一生去
zhi shou yi sheng qu
Holding hands for life
Thanks @Kate,
Wow, what a great range she has. The melody has big jumps from low to high notes but she carried it off well.
I felt that the dress’ skirt was too heavy. A more pared down dress would have looked better and been easier to walk in.
I do like most of the songs in this OST album. I hope that Season 2 adds on happier sounding ones!!!
@GB – yes I noticed the rather ungainly walk across the stage too!
That dress would have been ok for a classical concert performance where you stand stock still.
@GB – look at this… https://koalasplayground.com/2023/08/21/c-ent-melon-has-lost-you-forever-part-2-airdropping-tomorrow-on-august-22nd-to-coincide-with-chinese-valentines-day/
It is POSSIBLE that there will be a surprise airing date of Season 2 – not next year but this year to coincide with Chinese Valentine’s Day!
We’ll have to wait and see…
EPISODE 37 AD HOC THOUGHTS
I’ve re-watched Ep 37 and will start re-watching Ep 38 tonight. Ep 37 felt a bit like a hiatus episode, where all that had been prepared in the last 10-15 episodes came to a head and then had a pause, to take a breath, in preparation for the last 2 episodes of S1.
– CX manages to hang on in the Central Plains and marries.
– Jing is married and the baby is born. Grandma dies.
– XY finds herself unattached except for CX.
– XL takes the opportunity to have some relaxation after all XY’s heartaches have been giving him a hard time LOL and he shows her that she has the ability to speak and breathe normally underwater, like him.
Their banter, arguments, threats and repartee are the most compelling part of the episode, and gave us the pause in the somewhat more hectic events prior.
And XY ends off wondering philosophically if they are on ‘borrowed’ time and if there’s any certainty for tomorrow. She still has that fatalistic approach to life which you brought up, if one cannot control life or death, why bother about what happens in between.
Instead, she considers if she might just wander the world again. In the past, she had no choice because she thought she was abandoned and homeless, but now, even with a home and family, she is not happy. XL remarked dryly that 1 Tushan Jing could get her so disheartened. And he offers to kill off his sister and the baby if she paid him LOL.
XY wrinkles her nose at him : “What a bad idea.”
XL : “Do you have any other good ideas?”
That’s the way a demon cheers a person up!!
Hi @GB,
I have also written some ad hoc thoughts about Episodes 37 and 39 in this thread – including some responses to points you raised.
I’ll come back and look at yours later but I am making sure you saw my posts too. xx
EPISODE 37
CONFIRMATION OF SOMETHING MORE ABOUT THE LOVE BUGS
I did wonder before if it was only physical pain that could be shared, but from XL’s revelations in Ep 37, we find out that he experiences XY’s emotional pain as well.
Something else that happened although I find it’s meaning obscure was when XY felt the heartache as a physical pain during CX’s wedding and thought immediately : “Xiang Liu, why does the poisonous bug suddenly strike?”
(I wonder if in matters of the heart, when the the girl’s heart beats for another man, the effect is pain that can be felt by both. That means that the man would know if the girl was unfaithful?? That also means XL had been suppressing pain for months or years because XY had been upset over the loss of Jing for a long time.)
She addressed the question to XL in her mind, but when she sees him she asks XL: “When I’m upset, can you feel it?”
XL : “If you’re afraid of me feeling it, don’t torment yourself. If your heart does not ache I can feel better.”
XY : “So when I was feeling bad just now, you were feeling it too?”… His silence is a ‘Yes’.
XY : That’s why you controlled the bug to make my heart ache. … You have nine heads, but you only have one heart. If my body is in pain, you can only feel one ninth of the pain, but if my heart is in pain, you’ll feel the same pain, won’t you?”
So XL can control the love bug to make her feel pain? If so, then the bug is their means of 2-way communication over pain. Before, it was only communication in one direction, from XY to XL.
(Timestamp 16:47)
“Yes. I feel just as hurt as you do. But so what, do you want to use this against me?”
XY : “The physical pain can come from stabbing yourself, but the inner emotions, whether happy or sad, cannot be faked or even controlled by yourself.”
(My guess: one reason why XL keeps getting XY to come out and relax with him is so that he does not feel her boredom and heartaches LOL. It’s a respite when she’s distracted by the entertainments that he offers.)
XL : “Don’t have heartaches anymore. If you give me more trouble, maybe I’ll decide to kill you once and for all.
XY : “I didn’t force you to accept the bug back then.”
XL : “I knew you were useless, and would often get hurt, but I didn’t expect you to be so useless over keep your heart safe.”
XY is about to retort but stops. (Wise decision!)
@Kate, Oh yes, I read your posts, but didn’t remember that I hadn’t responded to them. I’ll come back and do that a bit later. I’m going out for an hour or so and then it’ll be time for dinner. 🙂 See/Read you later!
I think I like XL best in FFB archer mode…
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10222209787169307&set=pcb.637411014839246
It is timely I post here because of events we have just been watching…
@Kate
I wonder if that was all. I thought besides the words that were said, the fact that XY shot across to the palace grounds, the last arrow, that with CX’s power became multiple the arrows, also was a message of sorts but I couldn’t figure out what. Maybe a sign that CX and XY were the ones being victimised and were not the perpetrators?
I found it funny that XL was there to do his paid ‘job’ but couldn’t, because of XY’s and CX’s strategy of attack and defence by running back and forth so much, that XL couldn’t be sure to hit the right person.
He laughed that the pupil had outshone the master and gave it up. I’d like to suggest to XL that he pays back what the 5th Uncle paid him and forget about completing the ‘job’.
I want to give an award to the people who choreographed that fight and run scene. It was another ‘dance’ of sorts. I did wonder why only the archers were attacking and that the swordsmen were mostly standing still or moving warily instead of engaging CX and his bodyguard. They must have had much superior spirit power and could blast the lot of them without touching them. I need to watch that scene again.
That whole exercise was a bit weird. So they just basically attacked and defended their way out of that famous walk between the high walls, to/from the palace, and the soldiers didn’t pursue to kill them? I though the order given was that they or CX was not to leave the place alive. (Total failure for uncles, then!)
He was simply at work LOL. When he gets paid, he’ll do a job. No nicer feelings about how XY will feel about CX being killed. Her heartache then will really affect XL big time LOL.
(To be continued…)
(Continued…)
Message(s) of the Show?
Yes the conversations were and are always the strength of this Show. As we approach the end of the Season, Show is asking us to think: what are we doing and why do we take the trouble? Are we spending our energies on what is truly of value? What do we really have control over? What do we protect and do they need our protection?
There’s here and there ‘the grass is greener on the other side of the fence’ syndrome. Jing had it all, lost it all, gets it all back, but wants to return to being a ‘loser’. XY – same thing… had it all, lost it all, regained her identity and home, but is tempted to give it all up and wander like Wen Xiao Liu. I wonder if the offer by XL to quit being a princess and go wandering with him was more attractive to XY than she let on. (I think I have that scene in my notes but didn’t get to post it … I can’t recall!)
The message of hope. I liked the much earlier scene in the fighting arena, where it was unexpectedly XL, not XY, who gave the slave fighter hope. And it comes full circle when the same slave does indeed survive (sans his left ear) to gain his freedom. He remembers XY and XL and starts life afresh.
We see what XY has become from being merely a serpent demon, feared, laughed at, despised. We see that he can be very bad and very good. Flawed and conflicted, both fair and unfair. Very real.
CX had that very touching scene where he tried to justify all his losses, all that should have been grievances and excuses for revenge etc… he said he lost (father, mother, home, but gained murderous uncles) …. but it was not a big deal, because others suffered too, so why should he be so special and not suffer too. He put his pain aside to move forward to protect what he felt he must.
That’s been the very rational, pragmatic quality in the writing and thus in the attitudes of our characters. They are not foolish, air-heads but have got working brains and good reasons for what they do.
We have the whole thing about long lovesickness… the pragmatic side where it’s best to let go, and everyone can speak about it and agree, but the emotional side is something which XY had to admit with chagrin she could not get the better of. We see it again with Xin Yue, A Nian and Jing. Fortunately for us mere mortals, we do not live long enough to have to go through hundreds of years being lovesick!
So what is Show saying? This is life? (I recall in the early episodes XY said something similar: deities were not different from mortals … they only lived longer). No matter that we do or do not have spirit powers, we still live, suffer, get sick and can die. We have the same joys and sorrows. We make the best of our lives, making rational decisions (like the wife of Freckles/Pimply).
In the course of living, we have different kinds of loves that accompany us: sibling, friendship, confidant, romantic, family,(or their Greek equivalents) and though we may feel lost, forgotten and abandoned, we need never lose hope because we can be found again. The love that lasts is the one to which both parties commit themselves.
@Kate,
Yes, indeed. This is a wonderfully well written and edited piece of work. The unnecessary fluff has been either never added or completely removed. It’s so rare that we get a light and funny scene that I end up laughing too loudly.
Yes, amidst the fantasy and the supernatural, we have a most realistic drama of living life the best way we can, and Show does such a good job bringing forth its realistic philosophy in the characters. This is what good writing is supposed to do.
I like how you’ve summarised CX’s pragmatic approach LOL. I think of it as, since we don’t have control over the beginning and the end, let’s work on the in between!!
I’m so pleased that Episode 39 with English subs dropped earlier today and I’ve watched it. So good… good to the last second.
Minor SPOILERS
SPOILERS
A thought that struck me… now that XY is more like a demon than anyone knows, is possibly the reason why she can’t get ‘poisoned’.
I believe the flower CX left for her was the Ruomo flower… it was meant for the love of his life!
I wonder how free XY will be as a wife.
We have to wait until Season 2 to get XL’s thoughts on XY being an old married lady LOL.
I need to rewatch this!!!
@Kate, ooooh yes, Tan Jian Ci as FBB the archer… just too mersmerising. I sit entranced when he appears in his black hood, bow in hand.
Hi @GB,
I am taking a brief afternoon break to respond to your comments while you are still up!
EPISODE 38
Re the final shot of the arrow by XY. I didn’t understand that either – it was a signal but how it worked I had no idea. I think the story telling was slightly amiss there…
I also agree re the choreography of that fight. It was a visual treat.
I am also puzzled about how XY and CX survived. They had so much time to perform this weaponised ballroom routine. Surely a quick shot of an arrow could have polished one of them off. I do appreciate that they had protective power … but insufficient protective powers simply to walk out of the ambush.
MESSAGE OF THE SHOW
I like the way you summarised CX too!
I really like your 8.15 am reflections about THE MESSAGE OF THE SHOW (CONT)
My sense in this show the whole time is that happiness is fleeting and fragile – life seems to be a process of near misses with no-one quite satisfied (your grass is greener comment) – but we make of life what we can.
I found this rather mournful preamble to the novel … which I assume is the words of the author because I have seen it on a number of websites:
https://www.shushengbar.net/%E9%95%BF%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D-the-sauvignon-blanc-%E6%A1%90%E5%8D%8E/
‘Life is the encounter and separation, is the starting time and oblivion, but there are always things that once happened, will leave traces, and always have a person, once appeared, will not be forgettable.’
I wonder if Tong Hua’s own life experience is writ LARGE in her works. Look at Moon Lovers Scarlet Heart Ryeo for instance….
Another quotation – the translation slightly off again:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25180205
Life is full of encounters and partings one after another, and lethe and starts again and again. While, there are always some things which will leave an imprint once occur, and a person who can not be forgetten once met. Just for that bit of warmth, his companionship and dead set that might be changed in any time, this encounter in Qingshui town has changed the fate of all, and even the fate of the Wild. Love is a glass of poisonous wine, which is sweet enough to make the lovers go into ecstasies. But when it goes into the heart and lung, it turns into lovesickness that can not be cured easily. Lovesickness is grieved, which can be comforted only by sweetheart’s smile and accompanying, without which, the love can only be carved on the bones of the lovers, who will miss each other till their death.
生命是一场又一场的相遇和别离，是一次又一次的遗忘和开始，可总有些事，一旦发生，就留下印迹；总有个人，一旦来过，就无法忘记。这一场清水镇的相遇改变了所有人的命运，甚至改变了整个大荒的命运。只为贪图那一点温暖、一点陪伴，一点不知道什么时候会消散的死心塌地。相思是一杯有毒的美酒，入喉甘美，销魂蚀骨，直到入心入肺，便再也无药可解，毒发时撕心裂肺，只有心上人的笑容可解，陪伴可解，若是不得，便只余刻骨相思，至死不休。
Episode 39 – seen and appreciated!
This is such a lyrical show – it gets to you in all sorts of ways!
@Kate
EPISODE 38
The following words are spoken at the end of CX and XY’s successful exit from the palace grounds after the ambush. These comments refer to how they escaped alive rather than what they said in court. That’s why I was curious about what it was that XY and CX had come up with that won approval.
Fenglong and Jing have been eavesdropping on the meeting between King Grandpa and CX/XY and hears them allowed to leave. Fenglong notes that XY looks so easy going but she’s really sharp. He guesses that her future husband has to lie low to avoid fights. CX and XY had passed a test that day but Jing knows it will be hard for them to leave (alive). And I’m sure King Grandpa knew it too but he wants to play chess with Jing… a game of strategy.
At the end of the long walk fraught with arrows and swordsmen, XY with CX’s help, rains down arrows on the guards in the King’s courtyard, and this brings a whole bunch of Uncle’s men into the court to ‘protect’ the King from assassins. Jing and Fenglong leave but King does not even look up from the chess game. He says to himself approvingly : “Not bad, using someone’s strength against himself.”
(My guess is that everything Grandpa had done with regards to XY and CX had been a long, far-sighted plan, and a test. Probably from childhood, CX may have been set apart as the alternative to his other sons and grandsons, and kept away for his protection. Grandpa probably knew that CX was weaker and was bullied by his peers… and how XY used to fight on his behalf. Grandpa had been observing for centuries as he allowed trials to come to CX, and added trials and obstacles himself. When CX finally returned to his court and said plainly that he wanted Xiyan Mountain, Grandpa’s tests continued apace as he watched and waited to see what CX and XY would do.)
When Fenglong and Jing hear that CX and XY got out safely, Jing says : “So smart. She managed to escape from 5th King’s trap and cause him some trouble.”
Fenglong : “True. CX is so impressive. He created something out of nothing and planted evidence to frame the culprit with a crafty escape plan.”
When Fenglong and Jing meet up with CX and XY outside the palace walls, they sit for a celebration with water.
Fenglong : “Let me toast you with water too. Your escape plan deserves a nice pot of wine….”
CX : “All thanks to the person who came up with the sneaky plan.”
Fenglong is amazed that it was XY’s plan.
I believe that when the arrows rained down in the King’s courtyard, they broke through a protective force field and turned into harmless images of arrows that disappeared upon contact with the guards.
This is just my conjecture:
The strength of 5th Uncle was likely framing others and setting assassins upon them. CX and XY had indicated that they had escaped safely by the harmless arrows and pointed backwards to the court as the source of the assassination attempt. If they had wanted to kill the King, they could have done so. Instead they framed 5th Uncle who had remained in court to ‘protect’ his father.
As for the escape itself, XY must have planned it with CX on their trip together to the palace. She was his human shield against arrows and swords. The guards/soldiers/assassins were ordered to kill CX but they could not harm XY. She constantly placed herself in front of and behind CX in endless movement so that the archers, and especially FFB could not kill him.
@Kate thanks for the link to the https://www.shushengbar.net/ blog.
I have yet to transcribe something else that struck me that may also be included into the message of this show. I’ll see if I can find it later.
How interesting that the blurb of the novel that is posted there speaks of Tu Shan Jing and Xiao Yao as the main focus for the love that was not destined. This means that truly the novel gave Jing a much greater role in the plot, while the drama adaptation made him look like a sad pup.
I noticed that it’s only in the later episodes that Jing’s abilities, strategy, planning, accounting, understanding of the true situation come through. If not for his kindly nature, his holding on to memories of how in the beginning his brother had been good to him, and his guilt about how his mother had ill-treated his brother, Jing should have been in the fore-front (although the younger brother) long before, taking up his position as leader and subduing his brother properly. Instead he allowed himself to be bullied and preferred to become a nonentity. From what XL said about how Jing should not be underestimated, I gather that his abilities were well-known.
ADHOC THOUGHTS AND COMPARISONS
For no particular reason, with Jing in mind, I thought of the dysfunctional family dynamics.
I felt that the words that XL used to describe the situation with A Nian can be applied to Tushan Hou. Without XY or Jing, both A Nian and Hou would have been the only star. XY took away A Nian’s position as only beloved daughter, sister and princess of Haoling. Jing had prior claim to being the preferred grandson, the smarter, the more beloved artist/musician/chess player and future leader of the Tushan Clan. While A Nian chose not to kill XY, Hou came close to killing his brother, in order to take his place.
And then we have CX and his Uncles/cousins. They really tried to get him killed, over and over again. Somewhere in the novel(?) it might have been explained that his father might have been the most preferred son, the son of the principal wife/queen maybe… and hence his son, CX would have been the preferred successor to the throne. The hate that Uncles had for CX is otherwise irrational. He was a helpless kid to begin with, pretty weak in spirit power compared to XY and ultimately he was sent away ‘as hostage’ to Haoling.
In the meantime Uncles gained prestige and a good foothold on power with Dad, but they never felt secure.
(To be continued with thoughts about Granddad…)
(Continued…)
EPISODE 39
SPOILERS
EXPANSION OF THOUGHTS ON GRANDDAD (My guesses)
I mentioned this already but I thought to go a bit more into King Granddad of Xiyan. I’ve complained about how he abdicated his responsibilities as grandparent to CX and XY, appearing to do nothing for them. It’s no wonder that XY returned to see him with a resentful attitude. However, the doing nothing was probably a ruse. Sending the children away to grow up with varied experiences, observing them from a distance and waiting, was doing something. Perhaps the separation of XY from CX was also desirable because CX would depend too much on XY if they were always together.
However, I’m guessing with the last episodes of Season 1, and from what Grandpa says before he crowns CX, that we get to see what he’s been about. Granddad said that he’d been grooming or preparing someone to take over the throne. I’m considering that this preparation began when CX was a child (400 years earlier?)
The novel or S2 may give more info but this is my guess. Granddad has lost a good son, CX’s dad in war (but it was treachery that caused the death) and CX’s mother decides to accuse the traitors and kill herself. That means that CX would be in danger always as well. He admits that his life was never completely serene since the day his mother died. (Poor CX).
On pretext of giving Haoling a hostage, CX is sent away, more likely for his safety. For one thing, XY is also sent away to keep her safe and to have her cultivate her powers, so there’s no one to watch over CX. In Haoling he is taught how to be a king by XY’s father.
The reason it does not make sense for CX to be a hostage is that Haoling was not in confrontation with Xiyan, and Xiyan did not have to appease Haoling. In the case of Chenrong Kingdom, Xiyan had conquered Chenrong and so wanted royal princess Xin Yue and her mother to be hostages in Xiyan, to keep Chenrong from misbehaving. But there was no apparent reason for CX to be a hostage in Haoling.
Granddad never summoned CX or showed that he wanted CX to come to him, partly to keep him safe and partly to test his mettle. If CX did not appear to be a favourite, then the Uncles had less reason to kill him sooner. If CX really wanted to be with his Granddad, then he had to find his own way to gain admittance. XY gave him the opportunity to make contact with Granddad again. In the same way, Granddad refused to let CX come to see him, deliberately distancing himself from him, to play a trick on his sons.
The final test was whether CX with XY’s help, could argue their case against suspicions leveled at him, and get out alive from the palace. Granddad had also always known about the secret army, and was likely pleased that CX had thought to prepare to defend himself or attack if need be. It seems that Granddad wouldn’t even have minded a coup, as it was something he would have done himself. But he found that CX was kinder.
CX had the opportunity to run away when all seemed to be against him, or to use his army to force a coup, but he chose to stand firm as was his right, to be included in the ceremony. He expected to die, that’s why he sent XY away (unsuccessfully!) but he was prepared to do what was fitting as a prince instead of turning on his own family.
Surprisingly, Granddad’s vision and desire for a united Dahuang, in peace and with more equal opportunities for all, was also something CX highlighted when he said that all clans were citizens of Xiyan. They should look beyond Xiyan families to other clans as their own people. This resonated with Granddad’s ideals.
I wanted to give Granddad a standing ovation when he abdicated and chose the King who would carry out his visions. My favourite scene in the end, was of XY popping up next to Granddad in soldier’s outfit, and telling him frankly that she’d intended to kill 5th Uncle if he had been chosen as new King. LOL. Granddad remains unfazed by everything that should set a person cringing or horrified.
I liked that Granddad never held XY’s rudeness, frankness and resentfulness against her. Perhaps he saw more of himself in his Haoling grand-daughter than he’d seen in his Xiyan sons.
I liked his end conversation with XY, explaining why he would not go back to Xiyan so soon and what he’d do depending on the situation. He sounded like a perfectly reasonable person, and would have been a fun granddad under different circumstances. In the end, I felt sorry for the old man, who could not be just a granddad, but who had to rule for centuries, waiting for the one who deserved the crown.
This is all great stuff @GB!
Re: GRANDAD
I LOVED all the scenes with Grandad as you realised what was unfolding.
It was really moving.
The look on Grandad’s face as he crowned CX! It was an emotional ‘Aha moment’ for everyone looking on. And CX looking back at him, stunned, realising that his Grandad loved him and was well pleased with him.
What a good thing that CX’s wisdom told him not to pre-empt the identification of the Crown Prince by staging a coup.
The conversation, as you said, between XY (never to be outwitted) and Grandad as they walked down that long, steep staircase after the abdication – was a delight.
Your reflection on envious siblings reminds me naturally of the biblical account of Joseph and his brothers and their unwise father who failed to disguise his preference for Joseph.
Did Grandad take it too far? In other words was he so opaque in his strategy as to wound CX as a person and in his development? Certainly CX cuts a lonely figure… but it looks as though this was a question of survival and grooming an heir who would be a good King too. Brutal times call for brutal measures… it seems.
CX as a child was a gentle, conscientious and studious soul. He has been shaped into a strategic, wily soul who also maintains his principles.
EPISODE 39 CX in ‘XL MODE’
We see CX in a strong parallel with XL speaking with XY about a possible marriage to Fenglong. That scene again is very powerful. Why do the scenes with Jing not speak to me similarly? We know the answer,
CX has walked his path and lost his opportunity, it seems, in all of this pressure cooker, to connect openly with the one he loves. Could he have done this, within that story, in a way that was not creepy I wonder? CX and XY are first cousins.
XY has never seen him romantically. There is a scene which parallels the scene where XY and XL walk away from one another in slow motion with (if I remember right, XL’s theme song in the background). Here after the conversation where CX hides his feelings and turns his face away from XY, they part.
XY walks away, again in slow motion. This time it is CX’s theme song playing in the background and a line from the lyrics stands out:
‘You come and go without noticing.’
Powerful stuff again.
Confirming for me that from our viewer perspective – at the moment at least – the impact of the show is such that XL and CX are the two prominent leads.
Interestingly, in reality Tan Jianci’s Xiang Liu is a ‘special main lead’ and has broken records and attained great prominence and popularity as a special lead character. His character is normally less prominent than the main leads (XY, CX, Jing).
ps I should have added that the line: ‘You come and go without noticing’ is an apt description for XY’s MAJOR blind spots – the feelings of two men towards her, those of CX and those of XL/FFB.
p.ps Is ‘You come and go without noticing’ also an expression of a key theme of Tong Hua’s … people miss one another and what is really going on with the other and who the other actually is!
This applies even to people who are openly devoted to one another as are CX and XY.
Something about ultimate existential aloneness.
ON BEING WOUNDED
@Kate, yes I never did like the parental show of favour. Not only Jacob preferring Joseph but how Jacob’s father, Isaac preferred Esau, while Rebekah preferred Jacob. That was another dysfunctional biblical family LOL.
Whether Granddad took it too far … I believe in all the bad parenting, the offspring will definitely be hurt, but whether we can see it is another thing. We know that XY was so traumatised by feeling abandoned that she hates waiting. She complained that the green plum wine had the flavour of waiting and gave it away. Her only condition in finding a life partner was that she should be the only woman in his life and he was not to abandon her.
As for CX, he hides it well. I cannot tell if his wounded-ness manifests itself in any particular way. Perhaps he has so accepted his mantra of ‘so what if something bad happens to me,’ because everyone suffers, and we all just have to deal with it.
XY had said that she could not cry though brokenhearted, when she wanted to at first, and that she had already lost Jing, so she should not lose her dignity. She has to face every day anyway, and she might as well face it with a smile. Another piece of philosophy as offered by the Show.
@Kate
Thank you for bringing up the key theme for Tong Hua. It’s certainly a melancholy thought, to be so close and yet to miss the truth of the situation that is unfolding before one’s eyes.
While we may deplore XY’s being blind to the quality of devotion of CX and XL, perhaps it is better that she does not know, just in case the burden of it changes her attitude towards them and drives her away.
Aha… the explanation of XY’s aversion to green plum wine that is about waiting…
Jing can wait. And in spades.
XL can wait. Even for that which he knows will not come.
CX demonstrates a very mature ability to wait.
XY is not someone who waits. At least, not after the 70 year wait that left her alone and led to captivity for a significant time.
This is a link to the Dramapanda wrap-up interview (posted on 21st August 2023) with the 6 main characters.
https://dramapanda.com/2023/08/lost-you-forever-stars-spill-the-tea-after-the-finale.html
The remote/online ‘party’ interview is in Chinese but I believe the summary of what they say is in the blog.
This leads into Weibo (all in Chinese) with lots to see and read… a veritable rabbithole!
Ooh @GB, I loved what they said about XY and XL in the summary – when Xiang Liu held himself back from caressing XY’s face. I am so glad they are saying that there is no way XY would not be aware what is going on.
I very much like the thought of Tan Jianci and XY analysing and interpreting their characters as they go to perform scenes together – in such a sensitive way.
I am up early today so I sat there listening to the Zoom ‘party’ in Chinese for a while. I wish I had a better grasp of the language.
https://scontent.flhr2-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369864352_607120061575285_3069420556462542338_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=vX0JJGfC5eoAX_mRIZ2&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-4.fna&oh=00_AfBfwfH_aAki5sVy0fOgIu0oLMHrH1-MTsa8AwRhtJTAXg&oe=64ED0C75
A scene that conveys so much!
https://scontent.flhr2-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/370701086_772824754528967_213452096007196775_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Re1DMTjSRx4AX80Ofus&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-4.fna&oh=00_AfCoql7ul0IzZLzkeAU2qvlS__5bJeDBwgVEVFs403YZdQ&oe=64EBBF25
Where would we be without this character?
Although the lack of this character would mean a better outcome for FeiFei!
@Kate, what a beautifully taken cut of a most evocative moment. Thank you! As the blog post said, how could XY not know how XL/FFB felt about her at that moment. She didn’t flinch or move away but looked him straight in the eye. As usual, I wondered if she was playing her game of dare. She told him when he proposed running away, that she was bolder than even him. We see how challenged him. In this cut, is she also challenging him to dare to declare how he really feels?
As for Fur Ball Chubby LOL. It took me ages to figure out that the eagle and the Fur Ball were one and the same!! Loved how Fur Ball pooped on XY when she was being disrespectful (he gives as good as he gets) and how he tapped his foot impatiently when he wanted to take XY away from Clam. Those were odd moments of cute hilarity.
What is Xiao Yao aware of?
The Engagement to Fenglong
I’m wondering about how worldly wise XY is after 300 years as a man and living rough, and yet how unaware she may be about being a woman pursued by more than one man. On the political side, she manages to figure it out pretty quickly. She knows that Fenglong desires to marry her for her status, her connections, and her ability. He knows she will find the proposal attractive because of the mutual benefit for both Chishui and Cang Xuan.
He is right. He becomes Clan Head very quickly because his engagement to XY is announced and led by Chishui and Tushan, the Central Plains families back CX openly. Since King Granddad had as an unfulfilled dream, the greater peace and harmony between his clan and the Central Plains, this further strengthened CX’s claims to the throne.
I wonder how far XY did not know how CX felt about her. I notice that in their scenes together, they look each other in the eye and talk. However in the scene when she speaks of Fenglong’s marriage proposal, they did not look each other in the eye even once.
They had a complicated attachment because of a shared childhood and family, and however CX may have felt about XY, he also knew that she did not reciprocate. He could only continually hold her close as his meimei, and have her accompany him as his supporter. The thought of losing her when she became a wife of another man, must have struck him with tremendous loss. In that scene, he cannot look at her because he cannot control his tears. Perhaps XY refuses to look at him in the face, because it’s easier to pretend that she does not know. Instead she seals the deal by taking it that CX does not oppose the engagement and leaves. This is uncharacteristic in their communications.
The Bow
From what we see of XL and the bow that he commissioned from rare materials, and with a strange proviso that it could only be tamed by the blood of a nine-headed demon, it is obvious to us that it had been designed as a gift to XY from XL. She did not seem to be aware of this, but she should be. Once again, did she hide that she was aware?
I believe that in the case of CX, she would have pretended not to know so as to keep their relationship from becoming awkward. Would she feel the same with XL? I rather think that she’s pretty straightforward with XL, not minding that she cuts him with her words until he threatens her.
It struck me that there were many times XL threatened her with loss of life or limb and that despite being openly angry/hostile with each other, they always reconciled. With their kind of openness, would it not have been more characteristic of XY to ask him point blank about the bow? Since she did not, might she really have had no thought that it came from him?
So perhaps XY is strangely unaware when it comes to some things to do with XL, while she’s very sharp in others.
Sidenote: In the Clam, when XY was unconscious, XL had pointed out the half moon to her that looked like a bow. At that time, the bow had already been commissioned.
@GB – Yes, I think you are spot on in your response to the picture with XY as the one who dares XL.
They have this wonderful push-pull… we want more of course!
[We see that also in her larkyy behaviour in the underground casino… FFB is the one being cautious.]
WHAT IS XIO YAO AWARE OF?
Reflecting on your points, I am taken back to the games played by XY in her male form. The pretence, the fawning, the avoidance of discussion.
So, when she gets to an uncomfortable crossroads with CX she goes into chirpy younger MeiMei mode and, as you say, walks away without checking in with him. Just as she has walked away in the past without checking in with XL and at points with Jing too!
Yes, XY as having a big blind spot when it comes to XL’s gifts to her and role in her life. I can buy that argument too. Otherwise, she is grossly ungrateful towards him – unless, again, she is playing a role for the sake of the status quo.
@GB I have posted something that hasn’t landed in this thread.
Will write again at the end of the working day. Love this conversation. For me it is the crux of so much.
More anon.
Hi again @GB,
I’m posting again while I can remember what I wanted to say. I think I put it better in the original post but…
Firstly, I liked the way you picked up on XY as the one who challenges and dares XL – sometimes he counter-dares, sometimes he walks away to protect his intentions and his heart. The playboy aspect of XL should be able to brazen it out but is countered by the deeper seam which is searching for people to love and the vocation to stand with the army of Chenrong.
Secondly, in your next post, I could see so many parallels with XY’s behaviours towards CX and all the leading men in her life. She adopts this chirpy, girlish manner at times and AVOIDS all the issues!! Just as she adopted various strategies to avoid difficulty or emotional challenge when she lived in Qingshui Town as a man.
Sometimes the guys play along or are playing the same game and sometimes they see through it and sometimes they challenge or are amused by it.
So the XY defence could be said to be avoidance of potential conflict or closeness.
She’ll dare her way in and out of risky intimacy.
Fenglong is perfect for avoiding further hurt.
On the other hand, we see costly loyalty in the relationship with CX where there isn’t – she hopes – the same risk of being abandoned by her brother.
Understanding who XY is with the various men and the way they respond to her and what they want to do on her behalf … is key isn’t it?
ps I am only touching on the motivations of XY here.
Far more to discuss, I appreciate.
It gets back to our longer term goal of getting to grips with all the main characters.
@Kate, what interesting insight into the parallel behaviours of avoidance that XY adopts in her different persona. This is a good way in which to reframe her actions and choices. I’ll have to think about this some more.
I agree that understanding who XY is with each of the men and their responses is key. I’m glad we have many months to tease this out. I’ll need to pace myself.
I was just rewatching the earlier episodes 25, 26, 27 and stopped making notes for a while. I found that I missed pretty overt signs of CX’s jealousy that he manages to hide quite well. I found myself getting impatient with Jing, while at the same time commiserating with his predicament.
Then I found this nice edit of the show which highlights our fave XL/FFB with XY. The edit made their times together look both so fraught and yet so romantic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSS3_gCFlXY
🙂
Yes, this is a rich seam for us @GB as is evident by this conversation!
Thank you. That edit made my heart race! What a soppy woman I am! So romantic.
Why IS he the special male lead and not the main male lead??
Heheheh @Kate, here’s another one of those edits with more scenes included and an ending that hints at being naughty LOL. The wonders and illusions one can create with creative edits!!! 🤣🧐🤪😊😇
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTYDvBEzAwA
Yes, such a pity XL can’t be the Main, main lead. However, he’s an extra-extra special male lead? LOL.
Yes. Another great edit.
Apparently, the serpent fangs made it difficult for TJC to deliver his lines + they tickled YZ’s neck! Can’t find the neck tickling scene but this will do for now!
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1633942583683652/?s=single_unit&__cft__%5B0%5D=AZUXC1oC5MRbLT5OOW6hz1x1dfXlsxfcomF6ohTYufUCQee0LAhGAebdkcMbA3-vNVZdndB4U9ZQEd2KtBAi_qcVwLyW9plG4bpNjzHS4uT4lMnOMQw1D26ljh4_QljThhJ4hXtyej496ly3FdZePJHyaYnwIqaBXYkcL-ABD5HJ2o1Z1QTf6e_26E_1DLzy1Wg&__tn__=H-R
and… yes… the Clam!!
@Kate LOL, I’ll never look at shellfish the same way again!!! LOLOL.
Here’s a pretty well done review and I’m impressed with the reviewer’s ability to pronounce the names close to the right sound although maybe without the tone. Somehow the scenes of Season 2 must already be out because there are scenes in this review that we have not seen yet!
Thank you @GB – this is a very well done review. She should have been part of our discussion! LOL.
Of the many many things I agreed with, was the point she made re the attractiveness of Ye Shiki – a character who shone in a particular way – and the way his light was dimmed as he moved more and more into the Jing phase. Let’s see what happens in season 2.
Yes, I think she should avoid season 2 material in the season 1 review. Those scenes have been out there, nevertheless.
I haven’t been bothered by CGI issues – I’ve read other people mention them. There is too much else to take your attention!
@GB – posted above but here again in case you missed it.
This made me giggle – apparently, there were problems with tickling and TJC being able to speak his lines when fanged!
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1633942583683652
@Kate, I had to see some cuts of Ye Shi Qi to recall that he was anything other than the faithful pup. I believe I liked him best when he saved XY from XL that first time. Pity he was given so little opportunity to use his powers.
I guess the role didn’t give Deng Wei as many opportunities at being the strong, active male lead, but perhaps more experience would have allowed him to make even more of the many subtle and quiet moments that Shi Q/Jing had. What I couldn’t bear were his waiting in place scenes. It made his character feel so weak. Standing all night collecting dew, or for hours at the seashore while the tide rises to almost his waist. I can’t imagine that as a sign of love that excites many viewers.
It’s a pity his waiting around like a sad sack scenes were all shown but his business acumen, great planning and other important events he quietly organised were not displayed. We only hear of them through a report by Fenglong or as a job done that greatly helped CX. We seldom see his amazing brain in action. It took him so long to suppress his brother and that was more because YY gave him the opportunity by almost killing his ‘puppet’ and XY had gone to see him and told him to be ruthless.
He had loads of resources and people, and like how CX had a spy team helping him, Jing could have done the same. There were things he could have done to investigate YY and his brother but he did none of them until the women provoked him into action. There was that clue where Hou’s wife, Lan Mei, wanted to spill some beans but Jing did not seek her out (at least we didn’t see that scene) to find out what she wanted to tell him.
I presume the novel makes Jing out to be a stronger and more attractive main character, than the Show does.
As for the CG, I thought that most were very well done and never bothered about the parts that looked odd. I felt it was all part of the supernatural of those places.
= = =
As for those fake fangs LOL. Poor Tan Jian Ci.
I thought it would have been painful to speak while wearing them. It requires iron self-control to not giggle through all the fanged scenes!
I’m glad there were just a few scenes. I thought they could have been made to be CGI too like the appearing and disappearing claws. 😱🤔🤭
= = =
I’ve rewatched up to Episode 28 – parts of 29, and realised I forgot some scenes that make XL/FFB’s character darker grey. That’s the nub. He’s soo cool most of us want him to be the male lead, but he’s also not all that nice! LOL.
Already in Ep 29, King of Xiyan has deliberately left CX out of the New Year gift-giving, while he wants to give XY something fancy from his treasury. He also singles out Deyan (5th King?) as the one to organise the New Year worship ceremony. More overt favouritism in action, but grandpa has his plan. 😉
Here’s an analysis in Chinese (with English subs) on the love of XL for XY. I’m not sure I agree with everything she says. But perhaps because she knows the language, her interpretation of some things has an added nuance that we didn’t get with the English subs. She gives some extra food for thought.
MARRIED IN A DIFFERENT WAY?
The Chinese analysis – thank you!
Interesting that she highlights FBB dressed in red for the bow enlivening!
So there is marital imagery here.
Something here about a long-term commitment – an eternal love that is not consummated or verbally confessed but exists to protect XY.
In an interview TJC talked about XL and XY’s love being completed even thought it did not end in the way we, the viewers, would wish. I haven’t shared the comment because it is a massive spoiler.
BTW – SPOILERS
On spoilers, btw, Yang Zi was interviewed and asked readers of the original novel not to post spoilers. But the cast appears to be giving away spoiler level hints and tips at every opportunity! There was a second ‘Hello Saturday’ where YZ seemed to be telling us about endgames etc etc
@GB,
Thank you for further thoughts. My comments building on yours:
DENG WEI AS JING
ON DW in that role. When you watch Deng Wei on ‘Hello Saturday’ – as we both have done – he does seem to be quite similar to the character he is playing. He is shy and uncertain and looks to YZ for encouragement. In the BTS of their, excellent, kiss scene, it was YZ calling the shots. Mind you, she has helped all the guys, and the actor playing CX has acknowledged the level of help she has given him in this show.
IF we had someone of more experience playing against type, there might be more creative crackle.
I think this, too, is down to the very strong performances of all the other leads … even our young Fenglong is very vigorously portrayed by a callow youth of an actor! LOL
If Jing was being played as he is, with a more pastel palette of people – his nuanced approach would sing out more.
Thankfully, loads of people really like Jing – so he will do well out of this show.
Yes, the novel was better, apparently (must check) for Jing. If he is, arguably, the most interiorised character, he needed more help in the screen writing. But as YS it worked for me!
XL – BAD LAD
Let’s explore this further. How bad is XL precisely? I need this to let go of him. LOL
MYTHOLOGY AND XIANGLIU
Here is a brief Wiki article about Xiangliu… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangliu#:~:text=Xiangliu%20devastated%20the%20ecology%20everywhere,of%20human%20and%20animal%20life.
We need to look at the way Tong Hua works with Chinese Mythology. Her prequel to LYF was more closely reflective of Chinese classical myth.
Having read spoilers … she does use some of this mythological detail in the way she depicts XL in the novel.
@Kate, I have just re-watched the beginning of Episode 30 and I want to give Jing an earful or even box his ears LOL. I have to deal with XL later, but go into his character at least once or more than once, I certainly shall.
I will leave a comment on Jing in the correct thread. I’m also mindful that we have 1 thread as yet unpopulated… but sometimes I find I have little to say. I guess I’ll post something and in response to other posts, more may crop up. That’s how it works best with me. I find other insights get me going further on new and interesting paths, while on my own, my path peters out LOL.
@GB – don’t rush away yet from this thread. I’ve raised a number of questions for us to chew on here. See above.
Especially, how Tong Hua works with mythology and symbolism.
x
I’ll hover over more than one thread usually. Will read what Wiki has on XL after I rant about Jing.
LOL – rant away @GB! We are clearly needing to engage in an analytical catharsis at this stage! Haha
I am getting excited about the hints and imagery that I miss as a non-Chinese viewer.
I will enjoy your rantage too.
USEFUL BACGROUND
Koala’s intro to ‘Lost You Forever’ usefully situates our characters against a backdrop of Chinese mythology:
https://koalasplayground.com/2014/02/18/lost-you-forever-chapter-1-life-is-short-like-a-temporary-stay/
Having read the Wiki piece on Xiang Liu – one section points forward to a segment near the end of the novel.
So Tong Hua is dipping directly into Chinese Mythology. She is at the same time creating an entirely different Xiang Liu due to the various humanising influences:
General H
Loyalty to the Chenrong Army – training them, suffering with them and so on
FFB encounter
Unconditional love of Mum and grief for her
Encounter with XY who mirrors XL’s early experiences and helps him.
This makes for a rich character who is in many ways unknowable for the audience because we don’t know what it is like to be a Nine-Headed Demon!
His all too human behaviours at various points – hit home, and make a bigger impact through the lens of knowing something of his background and his popular reputation as a scary killer.
We also watch him with some uncertainty – his essence and human aspects make him unpredictable.
To be continued as I read and reflect further.
Hi @Kate
Going back to your comment of August 27, 6:18am… I’m still keeping clear of spoilers as far as possible. I guess we can consider a committed love, still consummated in the way that there is the keeping of the promise for a lifetime. (Sex is not everything LOL.)
Please see below on what I think of the so-called ‘wedding’ imagery. I disagree.
MY TAKE ON THE VIDEO REVIEW/ANALYSIS ABOUT XL’S LOVE FOR XY (the link was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seqbGlfjSes)
The Reviewer says that XL has a low key love for XY. He tolerates her a great deal. Maybe he knew he could not give her a stable life, therefore he did not allow her to fall in love with him. He would turn up at the right times to see her, but he hid his good deeds, so that she wouldn’t know and like him too much. (My take is the other way around … that he knew that it was Jing she liked, but he didn’t want others to know that it was he (XL) who loved her.)
Knowing that she would not be able to protect herself, he found the best master forger of weapons and provided the rare materials to make a bow. The reviewer says that he had intended to give the bow to her himself, but changed his mind.
XY was ‘killed’ by Mu Fen and it was only after this that the King of Haoling thought to get weapons forged for XY. It was a coincidence that the Xintian forger was the same person whom XL had chosen. Hearing that the rejected bow needed blood from the nine-headed monster, before it would recognise its master, XY understood that XL had commissioned the bow secretly. (This is the part that I mentioned was obscure. We do not get a clear indication that she really knew the bow had been meant for her, but she must have guessed that no one else would want the bow to need the blood of XL, except XL himself.)
She asked XL for 3 drops of blood, but she did not know that she also had the blood of the nine-headed demon in her body. (This part, I’m not sure I agree… after all in the Clam, XY’s spirit was watching XL as he treated her with his blood. She would have known that she had his blood as well. However she did not know that it gave her demon’s powers.)
XL by giving her the purest blood of his heart had fused their blood together. XL had generously still given 2 drops of his blood for the bow but the 3rd drop came from XY. The bow succeeded in identifying its master with XY’s blood. (This means that both of them had the blood of the nine-headed monster in them).
I’m not too sure about the significance of XL wearing red … for one thing, he often wore that red outfit as FFB. For another, the particular scarlet of wedding clothes is different from the deep red. I felt that the Reviewer was ‘reaching’ here. It is only as XL that he only wears white or silver. As FFB, he wears other colours. To be effective wedding imagery, both XY and XY have to be in red, and preferably of that particular vibrant red. There should be some form of respect shown (bowing to heaven and earth and) to each other.
Possibly it’s true that compared to the inherent weakness in CX and Jing as individuals (ie without help from army or body guards), XL was probably the only man who could protect XY singlehandedly. I’m not sure if Fenglong had much power other than to juggle fireballs LOL.
The Reviewer says that XL and XY’s relationship is like that of a ‘tsundere’ boyfriend (LOL we get a Korean word about a Chinese drama!) and a quirky girlfriend. Whenever XL is upset, XY will be able to bring him around by offering poison that she ‘SPECIALLY’ made just for him.
(To be continued …)
(Continued…)
The Reviewer’s interpretation of XY’s refusal to get any mouth-to-mouth resuscitation (kiss, for short) from XL, was that implicit in what she said about not wanting him to enter her dreams, is that he had the ability to do so. (That was my interpretation too.) In other words, she admitted that if she allowed herself the indulgence of the kiss, she could fall in love with him. The Reviewer says she did not want to fall for XL who was hostile, because she would ‘die badly’ LOL. I believe she means that XY wanted to avoid having a hard time in the relationship and so avoided getting overly intimate with XL in the romantic sense. XL heard the meaning of her words … the part about him not being the type who should ever enter a girl’s dreams and took it the wrong way. He got angry.
However hearing that she’d taken a lot of trouble to make the poison for him, he is appeased. He sees that she had still thought of him, may have missed him, and she had bothered about him.
However when XY and XL had bought weapons and she got him to pay for her bow to spite Jing, he was really angry. So she took the trouble to make for XL, a delicacy in the shape of a beautiful Koi pond, full of poison, to apologise (and make sure she could still have him as her archery master).
The Reviewer says that he sensed her frustration when he remained cold towards her and so ate up the poison, however I did not see signs of her frustration so I question this. I felt that he was quite taken with the Koi Pond which he knew was definitely created only for him.
While she proudly asserts that she’s the only person in the world who can make poison so delicious (and good to look at), he counters that he’s the only person in the world who can appreciate her culinary skills. Yes, theirs is one of those whose matches which might have been made in heaven, except … (we can fill in the blanks)
To XY, FFB/XL was more like a buddy or confidant. They’d literally slept together when she was a man and even when she was a woman. She’d been playful with him, drawing on his face. She’d healed him whenever he needed her blood. In the big Shell, it was like their home where XL would go out to run errands and return to the Shell to rest. (I sort of question this too, because it sounded like he only came to see her about once a month after the first few times. Once she was able to start healing, he only returned at the full moon).
Because she was unconscious, he did not put on his cold exterior but revealed his tenderness when he cared for her. However he was respectful and never took advantage of her.
On full moon nights, when the demon power is strongest, he used the essence and blood of his heart to prolong her life and heal her wounds.
I wonder if the end of this analysis included something from S2 or from the novel because the Reviewer mentions XY’s suicide and a war that we have not yet seen. However the point is that XL did not want XY to know what he did for her because she would be burdened by how he had saved her life, and this would be complicated for her, if CX and Chenrong came to blows again.
The Reviewer mentions that XY would voluntarily choose to die / commit suicide, and that XL would stop it. His love is demonstrated by his actions but will not be confessed.
= = =
Well that’s it for this particular analysis. There are more, but I’m not deliberately watching them. I did do a quick read of the Wiki article on Xiang Liu in mythology… will see if I’ve time to read more.
@Kate, following your link to Koala’s Playground, I read the first Chapter and went back to read the Prologue. I’ve also read the Wiki article on Xiang Liu, and here’s something else that’s interesting… “A Comparative Study of Chinese Xiangliu and Greek Hydra”
https://www.hrpub.org/download/20211130/SA1-19625350.pdf
Yes, I imagine most of us who write, will take from myths and legends to reform our own supernatural beings. The best thing in any adaptation is to pick the characteristics that one likes while omitting the parts that don’t fit the story we want to write.
Since Tong Hua wanted to offer 3 rivals for XY’s love, she had to make the hero-villain attractive. I can’t imagine a stinky, gluttonous snake would stand up well as a love-candidate against CX or Jing, LOL.
The advantage of taking from myths is that enough of a mythical creature may already be familiar to readers/viewers, so that detailed explanations are not necessary. For example, the Show did not say why demons are able to do so much with water. The weapons of XL look like ice. He was able to propel twists of water to break down the forcefield outside Dragon Bone Prison. A demon pops up from the sea to offer food. And of course there is our cozy, underwater Clam love nest LOL. It’s taken as normal (even for Dongfang Qing Cang) that demons (like fish demons) can breathe underwater and propel themselves without having to actually swim. (Granted, the deities in this Show, ndon’t actually swim either… I believe they use their spirit power to get about underwater.)
I’m sure there are other characteristics besides being closely linked to water that are treated as a ‘given’.
I like how XL has been humanised, while still retaining his wily, cunning nature. He was also a bad boy when it came to messing with Jing LOL. Like CX says, XL is so interesting, he’s no longer surprised that XY made friends with him. Everyone else pales by comparison when XL in on the page/screen. LOL.
Hi @GB – thank you for your careful review of the review. I can’t argue with your main points. Yes, the red and the reviewer ‘reaching’ could well be true in view of other moments where FFB wears red and so on.
I did like that idea, nevertheless. But it is probably romanticising that scene over much.
I read the article – thank you for finding that. Clearly, our XL is a greatly softened version of the stinky Xiang Liu who smells poisonous and ravages the countryside and animal life around him. Our XL has a pet called Furball/Chubby for a start! We do see at least one scene where flowers wither as XL passes by… but this is an occasional reveal rather than an on-going devastation caused by XL’s presence.
So Tong Hua has some fun with the Xiang Liu ideas and builds in fun and tender elements. This will all add extra dimensions for those who have grown up with these legends and, as you say, shortcut the story telling process.
We first meet XL by horrific reputation don’t we? That backdrop is so useful for Tong Hua then to depict this wonderfully varied and interesting character. What will XL actually be like when push comes to shove. Of course, XY is finding that out as she goes along. LOL
@Kate, ah yes, I’d forgotten about how XL made the plants around him die while Jing brought them back to life. It only happened that one time, hence did not seem significant, but I suppose XL could bring death in his wake if he chose. However he must constantly be restraining his powers since he goes around as FFB without anyone remarking on how plants wilt around him!
Yes, giving him Chubby was a great way to somewhat defang XL’s image. 🙂
Tencent have produced a special edit of XL-XY scenes from Episodes 1 to 20.
I am posting it here because it will be a useful retrospective when we have time (it is 2 hours 20 minutes).
I suspect they may do the same again with later episodes.
This is an unusual move methinks and reflects enormous audience demand!
Thank you @Kate! My, my! I’ve never come across a platform ready to do such a long and thorough edit! Yes, certainly, there must have been tremendous demand. Unfortunately, unless I can use a VPN, I can’t play the video that’s on Tencent. I’ll see if it appears on YT Heh!
@GB – I hope you can get it! Bummer if you can’t.
We could have an annual re-watch just off this edit… hahahah.
@Kate, even now, if I don’t mind spoilers, I’d have a wealth of videos to watch with the XY-XL pairing. 🤩😬😆
I wonder if the platform is dropping big spoilers on purpose! 😒🫣😤
@Kate, continuing from above, here’s another very nice edit. I like how the creator, ‘bulletproofcouch’ brought together all those scenes especially their hands. However there was one cut that was wrong. Can you tell which one? 🧐🤔😆
@Kate
This one is cute and suggestive with a few of the scenes and the lyrics coming together rather well!
Oh thank you @GB – will watch this evening!
I wanted to say too that Tencent dropping spoilers seems to be a pattern. I am watching The Legend of Zhuohua. The ‘teasers’ for upcoming episodes on WeTV contain massive plot spoilers. If you add up the opening and closing credits and watch the ‘teasers’ – you might as well just a knit a jumper instead!
@GB – couldn’t resist – I watched in lunch hour.
I love the first one especially. Captures and intensifies so much.
I love some of those really gentle XY-FFB scenes…
I give in though on the faulty cut – do tell!
I rather wonder how Tan Jianci will follow up all the adulation he has received in this role! You don’t get that many break-out/stand-out characters to play like this in a career.
Hi @Kate, the error in the video was in the first one at Timestamp 1:55. The one carrying XY was not XL but Jing. I had to replay to doublecheck, because the only time I recall her being princess carried by XL was when she was unconscious. But in that cut, she was awake and looking at the one carrying her.
Tan Jian Ci will probably get more roles now and more endorsements as well. He’s been busy since 2014, although I saw that he started as early as 2007. He’s also got more shows coming up, airing dates to be confirmed.
I found this video by chance that lists his dramas that have been released, will be aired later, and even those rumoured to be in the works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBRnaE_IPI
If we cannot get enough of him, we might try ‘Under the Skin’ or some contemporary drama with him in it for a change!
This may be a bit premature because I don’t have time to check all my notes, but before Season 2, and while it’s still fresh in my mind, I wanted to list what I expect or hope the second season might resolve.
Outstanding Issues
– As everyone one has probably guessed, Jing’s child is probably not his but his brother’s, so when he finds out that he was entrapped into marriage and away from keeping his promise to XY, what havoc is this going to wreak? (The book has one outcome, but I don’t like it.)
– Is XY is more a demon than she’s aware of and will it be manifested later? I’d really like if she could regain her spirit power or replace it with demon power!!
– What of the sealed weapon in XY? Has it been totally neutralised or will it crop up in Season 2?
– What did Tushan Hou’s wife, Lan Mei, want to tell Jing that he did not get to hear?
– Will XY find out if she really is Chi Chen’s daughter? If so, why does Haoling King and Xiyan King not care about this?
– When will she find out that the Poisonous Bugs are Love Bugs and that the reason XL could be the host of one of them was because he had cared about her from very early on?
– Will we see XY’s Ape Mirror again?
Debts due to be paid to Xiang Liu (Promises made to XL that are yet to be fulfilled)
– Jing had promised XL anything at all over saving XY.
– A Nian had to keep her word to do something for XL when he proposed that he’d help her get revenge on XY for upsetting her happy life.
– XY still had the 1 thing that XL would one day tell her to do and which she could not refuse to do, in exchange for his accepting the Love Poisonous Bug.
– XY remains XL’s ‘person’ at his beck and call and commissioned to keep making poisons for him.
– CX had promised XL the peak of Mount Chenrong when he became king of Xiyan.
Xiang Liu’s Debts of Honour / What ties XL down
– Take care of the Chenrong Rebels
– Kill CX because that’s what he was commissioned to do as FFB, unless he can get out of this somehow.
– Keep XY alive or he will die too.
Here’s the triple threat of Tan Jian Ci in action.
He sings, dances and acts and he has got stage presence.
@GB – Good idea…we should at least try out a contemporary drama with TJC in it.
Even if we just check out a couple of episodes.
You mentioned ‘Under the Skin’. It was well received critically wasn’t it? Let’s try it. No time pressure.
It may of course be that our attachment is with Xiang Liu/FBB… but we should explore all avenues…. haha!
Watching triple threat TJC is is so clear why he made such a wonderful job of embodying XY and FFB – the sheer physicality of the XL role really suited TJC’s skills!
I liked the other male singer’s voice btw… may follow up.
@GB – your 11.31 am post is such a helpful refresher as we lean forwards eagerly to resolution!
I really like your question about XY becoming more demon-powered!
I also liked the question about her parenthood and why the kings don’t seem to be perturbed…. LOL!!!
Yes, how indeed will XL be repaid?
Ok a few more questions…
Now that CX is King, and in a more powerful position, how will that affect his aspirations for and towards XY?
What, ultimately, is the outcome of the Feng Long marriage proposal?
Will Jing be released from all the entrapment of the Tushan family and want to pursue XY again?
How precisely does the tv show differ from the novel when it comes to the ending?
Hi again @GB,
I checked out ‘Under the Skin’ – it is a clever mystery/crime solving show with some traumatic events as a backdrop. Great reviews for the intelligence of the plot, crime solving etc and the performances of TJC and his co-lead.
I don’t think it is one that appeals to me at the moment, that said.
Take a look and see what you think.
If you agree we could wait for one of the new shows where TJC is main lead… he has three or four coming up.
My dear @Kate,
You raise good questions. Short of reading the novel, I will make my random guesses, because now you’ve got me asking those questions too!
I believe that the promise in marriage with an engagement is pretty binding since the families are now already involved. The reason for the union does not disappear even after CFX becomes king. The marriage will strengthen the bonds between the Xiyan – Haoling and Central Plains families. The political marriages are supposed to seal the deal of friendly relations and bring clans/parties over to one’s side for the long term, to establish peace.
CX cannot have any ‘proper’ romantic aspirations towards XY now. Either the engagement is cancelled or the wedding takes place. In the former case, CX’s position weakens. In the latter, XY cannot remain beside CX in the same way.
Fenglong may or may not be a more ‘open’ sort of guy. He may not mind if his wife continues to be confidante to his close associate who’s her cousin, but he’ll still expect his wife to be home and serving him.
I really wish lovers in dramas knew when to let go. I guess viewers want the all or nothing boyfriend. The one who gives all to only one great love, and who will never be unfaithful. But in real life, we need to make the best of a bad situation, find joy even in what is not preferred and move on. Unfortunately, not so in this narrow drama world. Jing will be chaffing at his unwanted position and marriage. Once he finds out it was an entrapment, all the more he will want to break out. Since his family deceived him, he may not care that he breaks the rules and ruins the family’s reputation.
I wish I knew. We only have an actor’s word for it that the ending is not the same as the book’s ending. If that’s true, then maybe it’ll be an ending I could get behind, because I didn’t like the spoiler I read of the book’s ending. 😑😒😣😄
Hi @Kate
I took a peek at ‘Under the Skin’ and found Ep 1 pretty good. It felt familiar… as if there have been kdramas or American shows like that. I don’t mind watching it, but not now. It’s nice to see contemporarily styled Tan Jian Ci who smiles more.
Yes, let’s try the new shows he is in when they air. We will do our due diligence in checking out what Avenue X has to say about them as well.
🙂
@GB – I’m interested in your response to ‘Under the Skin’ – makes sense. But not for now.
I’m up for checking out his new shows as they air. We really need a happier romance for him!!
LOL @Kate, yes, I want a happy, successful romance for Tan Jian Ci’s character. We are so invested in his character’s happiness! 😂🥰😝
I watched a couple of videos of him dancing. Fluid and evocative are words that come to mind.
@GB,
Re your responses to my questions – I am slightly wrong-footed by spoilers I have seen. They don’t give me the whole picture but they hint at possible developments.
Re CX – unlike XL – he seems to be treading a more Shakespearian path – by that I mean, the virtuous man with the fatal weakness. I think things will get sticky with him because of all of this repressed passion combined with power and XY’s ability to avoid the issue. Even if I/we hadn’t seen spoilers… I don’t think the drama would waste the opportunity to complicate things drawing on his repressed passion. All those longing looks…
Re Jing – agreed. That is going to be interesting!!
Re the ending… given TH’s style … I am not expecting it to be sunny but I hope we will find it satisfying! If not, the LYF recovery therapist needs to be BOOKED!
@Kate, thank you for the warning. I am ready for a difficult and twisted road ahead for our leads. Our main concern is that the good relationships forged over the decades or centuries will come under extreme strain, some possibly broken. I (We) will be so sad.
Perhaps we should book the therapist one year in advance, in anticipation!!
LOL – yes a good therapist booked in anticipation, and some chocolate perhaps…
@Kate oooh lots of dark chocolate for me!!! I understand that good chocs have antioxidants. Might as well keep healthy and possibly slow down the aging while we get therapy LOL. 🤓😉😘
Yes!! I’ll take some dark milk chocolate in that case! Almost as healthy!
Back to EPISODE 37
The long amicable conversations of XL and XY and an almost ‘date’ underwater
XY had left CX’s wedding after recovering somewhat from a physical pain of heartbreak. However it might have been pain that XL had controlled the love bug to send to her.
XY asks XL : “So when I was feeling bad just now, you were feeling it too?”… His silence is a ‘Yes’.
XY : That’s why you controlled the bug to make my heart ache. … You have nine heads, but you only have one heart. If my body is in pain, you can only feel one ninth of the pain, but if my heart is in pain, you’ll feel the same pain, won’t you?”
(I believe she means that he wanted to distract her from the heartbreak by countering it with a sharp physical pain. He was tired of feeling her heartbreak and wanted her to stop it.)
XL : “Yes. I feel just as hurt as you do. But so what, do you want to use this against me?” … “Don’t have heartaches anymore. If you give me more trouble, maybe I’ll decide to kill you once and for all.” (We know he never will.)
It’s likely that he spots Jing watching them and decides to kill two birds with one stone. He invites XY to go off with him both because he’d like her company and to punish Jing for spying on them. XY hesitates but XL knows that if he dares her, she’d rise to the challenge, and so they end up in more comfortable clothes and on Chubby, flying over the lake.
I like that their conversation is very homely and relaxed. They might have been siblings. They speak about the colour of his hair and how he got used to keeping it black. Perhaps white hair is the colour of a villain, because he suddenly says that even villains began as ordinary young men.
XY looks at him with a smile and says with conviction : “You are not a villain.” XL grabs her hand and brings her into the water. He seems to want to make her admit that she thinks of him as a villain, but XY is more concerned about going up for air. XL stops her.
XY thinks XL wants to give her air to breathe through a kiss. She recalls how XL had wanted her to kiss him in order to get air to breathe and asks herself : “What am I insisting on? Now I have no one to hold on to with my life”. (She decides that there’s nothing wrong with being kissed by XL now … no more qualms about him entering her dreams … a fate worse than death? LOLOL.)
She approaches XL with her eyes closed, much to his consternation LOL, ready to be kissed. He is tempted but at the very last minute he turns aside, thinks a while and decides to laugh it off as a joke. She’s incensed at being made a fool of.
She pushes him away, annoyed and swims upwards but he holds on to her to inform her that she won’t suffocate.
XL : “Try and breathe. I didn’t let you go up not because I wanted to force you to kiss me.”
XY : “Shut up. Don’t you dare!” And XY is shocked that she can speak normally and breathe underwater. She asks him if he did something on purpose (ie changed her into a monster).
XY : “Why are you doing this to me? I hate you.”
XL is angry at her ungratefulness LOL : “This is the price you pay to survive: becoming a monster.” He moves off quickly as if flying rather than moving against water.
XY calls out feeling contrite : “XL, XL, I didn’t mean that. My body is different from others, but I don’t think I am a monster. I also don’t feel that I have paid a huge price. I have gained a huge benefit. I’m more than happy. I was just mad at you for playing me again.”
He seems to be moving fast and far off from her but the second she utters a cry of pain, XL is with her, holding on to her arm.
(Hah! She played him this time!!)
EPISODE 37
(XY and XL Underwater Continued… and the ‘Date’ on the Seashore)
XY looks up from under her lashes to check on whether XL notices that she bluffed about being in pain. XL thinks a while and realises that he didn’t feel any pain, therefore he knows she tricked him. He lets go of her arm but now she grabs him quickly, before he takes off again LOL.
XY speaks without knowing the cost that XL had paid. She does not know that he lost one life.
XY : “You have nine lives. You saved me once, and I became like you, free to go anywhere. If I die and you save me again, then do I become like you …?”
XL grabs her by the neck (as well he should, I guess) and threatens : “If you die again, I’ll chop you into 9 pieces, Just enough for one bite per head.”
XY : “Be gentle. You worked hard to save me. What if I really get killed by you? Would you bear it?” (She struggles a bit but isn’t actually scared).
He continues to stare at her but does not remove his grip on her neck.
XY : “I mean what if you consume too much heart blood? Would you bear it?”
XL : “Do you want me to prove it to you now?” He’s about to bite her neck but she pushes him away.
XY : “I know that you can bear it. No matter how much heart blood you consume, you can always replenish it, right?”
(She uses the same tactic with CX. She appeases the male ego by complimenting them on their strength or abilities. They always get taken in my her, LOL. She sounds so sincere!)
She smiles sweetly at him. He seems appeased enough so that they go about companionably underwater.
XL is surprised that XY recognises the merfolk’s courting song. Realising that he does not know how much of himself he’d revealed to her when she had been unconscious in Clam, she does not tell him how she knows. LOL, against XL’s advice, she goes to see what’s going on in the giant shell where the mercouple are and comes back embarrassed.
XL teases : “I didn’t expect you to have this kind of foible, like spying on a couple’s private matters.”
XY : “XL, you did that intentionally!”
XL : “Am I a villain now?” (LOL. He’s still on the ‘not a villain’ trip!)
On shore XY gives him the poison that she’d prepared for him. (I believe he takes her poisons as some kind of health tonic! It’s also her way of making up to him for any offence she may have caused. I’m intrigued by how much poisons she must carry about her person at any odd time!!!)
XY speaks of poison like it’s a condiment : “It has a strong bouquet, and goes well with seafood.”
He smells the fish she’s grilling and recognises the scent of Yuhong grass, and says it’s not poisonous.
XY : It’s not very poisonous but tastes good. You like drinking don’t you? Put this in wine. Even if it’s bad wine, it will taste good. I made it especially for you.” (Those are magic words to him… anything she does specially for him pleases him.)
She asks if he remembers that this is the 2nd time she’s grilled fish for him. The first time as Wen Xiao Liu she’d thought the world so big and she had nowhere to go.
XY : “But now I do have a home, and have someone waiting for me. But I just want to wander for a lifetime.” (Yeah the irony of it… grass being greener etc. When we get what we might have longed for, we no longer want it!!!)
XL observes dryly : “Just 1 Tushan Jing can make you so disheartened.” His solution: he offers to kill his sister and nephew LOL, but only as long as she pays him, of course!
XY wrinkles her nose at him : “What a bad idea.”
XL : “Do you have any other good ideas?” She is silent.
She asks about the islands and land beyond the sea. XL says there are scattered islands: some barren and others beautiful. She wants to wander far afield to see them but XL does not want to accompany her. She counters that she had no thought of traveling for fun with someone annoying.
We find them in an unexpected domestic scene where she cooks for him and seasons the food. He even seasons the drink that he has in the shell with poison and tries it.
XY returns to being fatalistic : “XL, do you ever feel like these times (ie these peaceful times when they are friends and relatively happy) are borrowed, and feel uncertain of tomorrow?” He does not respond as they look at the sea before them and the vast sky dotted with stars, sitting companionably together.
The XY and XY Relationship Arc
After re-watching Episode 37 and posting the comments above, it occurs to me that aside from the time when XY was Wen Xiao Liu, there are very few domestic scenes with XY and the men who like her. In Qing Shui Town, it was Jing who served XY as her servant after she tended him like a physician. So I don’t really consider those scenes romantic.
The only person we ever see XY cooking for, serving and sending food (poisons) to, is XL. She’s not a cook generally I guess, so I don’t recall her even ever serving CX a meal or a dish. At the most they drank together or servants served their meals.
XY and XL’s relationship has changed from an enforced semi-slave and master relationship, to confidants, allies with some differences in opinion, and practically roommates. The number of times XY spent nights with XL seem to be more than those portrayed between her and CX.
They’ve suffered near death together in the Clam, and recovered health through 37 years of blood treatments.
Aside from trying to poison XL to death, XY also has the most ‘wifely or girlfriend-like’ scenes with XL where he’s stuck on her neck LOL, or rather when she’s healing him. We see XL flying about with her, teaching her archery, going shopping and dating her in some form or other.
As a twosome, they have had the most fun times going about town, traveling, watching fights to the death, having meals together (even a romantic boat ride under fireworks!) and walks hand-in-hand to admire the moon. They are actually the most like a dating or married couple among the various permutations of XY and the other guys.
I fancy that the kinds of arguments, teasing, trickery and bickering they have between them, are similar to what I see among close friends and married couples LOL. Their interactions are so interesting that repeated scenes of Jing and XY just being sweet and making love promises plus goo-goo eyes at each other just become boring and pale by comparison.
The above scenes and the following situations seem like good reasons why it makes more sense for XY to end up with XL, (not that it will happen).
As Wen Xiao Liu, XY had already made the binding oath to keep making and serving XL poisons. It involved being his ‘person’, which includes being his ‘healer’, which means at the oddest times, XY may need to run off to take care of XL.
They’ve ingested so much of each other’s blood, they are not so much soul mates as heart mates LOL. With the mingling of their blood for the bow, they are practicaly blood brother and sister. That’s not to say they are not soulmates too, depending on how one might define soulmates.
The poisonous love bug is going to bite one or both of them if they’re doing coupley things with another person. My guess is, that kind of behaviour comes under the heading of unfaithfulness to the love bugs, in which case they may attack the heart. (There was some dire warning about the bugs causing death?)
XY believed that XL with 9 heads/lives would feel only one-ninth of the physical pain that she suffered, however he’d feel 100% of the pain of her heartbreak, because he had only 1 heart. XL should keep XY close and remain very invested in making sure XY does not get hurt. That becomes rather challenging were she to marry someone else!!!
@GB –
THE UNDERWATER DATE
Fabulous! I lOVE this account of the underwater date. So well related and reflected upon.
XY really handles XL with expertise – and as you highlight this is a skill she uses with CX also.
I love the way you describe the culinary provision in their relationship! It’s a hoot and it also so sweet. He loves that she is doing this specially for him. SIGH
I DO DO DO wish she knew the full extent of XL’s commitment to her.
I can’t help but imagine this scene with a more fully informed XY.
On the other hand, XY is still capable of being ‘hard-hearted’ so we don’t know what precisely her behaviour would look like. She might even become more avoidant…
I am glad too you underlined the significance of her willingness to be air-kissed this time. Absolutely. So the ‘too terrifying’ prospect was just her version of pushing XL away when they had the heart to heart previously.
I wish they did kiss… although that would be XY using XL in a moment of pain and not be a good thing for either of them.
I guess, too, the restraint of XL underlines his choice in all this and dignifies his actions on her behalf.
He is not a lothario – even as FFB he is restrained with XY. His love for her is the purest in many ways. A deep irony. The demon who loves purely. I know she has been his ‘person’ and blood-supplier… I wonder though whether those necessities have been far far subsumed by his faithful love for her.
We see that, in fact, in the famous reveal scene where FFB comes to her bedchamber. When she faints he does not try to heal himself further.
I HOPE XL knows that she cares for him beyond her flippancy.
THE XL XY RELATIONSHIP ARC
I also really like the way you have summarised XY with XL doing wifey, date-like, domestic things.
We come back to the decision of Tong Hua and the screenwriter team to make more of XL in the show… and the result is that we as viewers are naturally so much more invested in the XL-XY couple…
It makes perfect sense that we see depicted this companionable and quirky life together. We know XL’s heart towards XY. We see XY pining for the potential she had with YS but not – at the moment – with the Jing the reduced.
No wonder we are frustrated by the story… when it would be so much more satisfying to see an outcome with XL if at all possible!
Thanks again @GB
Correction * I know that these necessities have been far far subsumed by his faithful love for her.*
When precisely did the shift happen? Or did XL foresee XY’s significance very very early on?
She sang for FeiFei… XL listened from a great height. A lonely demon. That was their first encounter and one imagines that there was something magical about the alluring song and the mystery of why a middle-aged man was able to attract a shy magical creature…
That is XY’s theme song and might be seen to be the expression of some of her essence and essential attractiveness.
Jing was entranced by her performance of the song.
I can’t remember if CX has seen her sing it.
XL – XY fIRST MEETING
Their first encounter by Pa Na Lor in one of the FB discussions. See the link for the scene:
https://www.facebook.com/plor1/videos/263834693117315/?idorvanity=807434947498079
‘After you enjoy binging the drama, I encourage you to rewatch it, and read the film cinematography and composition for visuals and symbolism dedicated to Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu’s story. It’s impeccable!
Did you catch that? Xiang Liu was the third person to be introduced, BUT the first to hear Xiao Yao’s love song.
And the editing and timing of this song fits so perfectly as foreshadow into the nature of thier relationship. Xiang Liu enters the frame when Xiao Yao starts the line “Why are there gatherings and partings in life?”’
Another post by Pa Na Lor – this time concerning all the romantic tropes we see in the XL-XY relationship: https://www.facebook.com/groups/374673724446311
‘Here’s to all the romantic troupes written for Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu. 🥂🍾
1. Hate/misunderstanding turning into love is one of the oldest tropes in drama, seen in everything from Korean to Japanese dramas like “Heirs” and “It Started with a Kiss.” “Lost You Forever” is no stranger to this theme. Xiang Liu starts as an overbearing, mean anti-hero who treats the protagonist awfully. Through their unfortunate encounters, he falls deeply in love and sacrifices his life by hosting a toxic and poisonous bug. Also, Xiao Yao experiences this twice, once with Xiang Liu and again with Fang Feng Bei! 😏🥹
2. The underwater kiss is a trope reserved for lovers in drama, mostly seen in Chinese dramas. One notable example is the 1987 film “A Chinese Ghost Story.” For staunch YaoLiu shippers, this moment signifies when XL and XY became lovers, destined for each other, despite their unfortunate fates.
3. Going on dates. Xiao Yao goes on three significant dates with Xiang Liu: watching the moon rise, and two underwater dates – one with blooming sea creatures, and a second with the mermaid song. As Fang Feng Bei, Xiang Liu takes Xiao Yao on multiple dates with him, roaming around town, enjoying good food and drinks.
4. The archery hug, another trope reserved for lovers, is seen as flirtatious Fang Feng Bei (Xiang Liu) gives Xiao Yao archery lessons.
5. The master/student love relationship, often found in Chinese costume dramas, is embodied by Fang Feng Bei (Xiang Liu) teaching Xiao Yao archery as a means to prepare her for self-defense.
6. The “steal the bride” trope, set to air in season two, is hinted at in the trailers with Fang Feng Bei (Xiang Liu) taking Xiao Yao from her wedding.
Hehe…XY does have a few troupes with CX and Jing too, but maybe when I have time, I’ll look for them. Since I’m Team Xiang Liu, it’s easier for me to catch their pairings.’
And finallee…
We are in good company @GB! A royal who prefers this to the much loved ‘Eternal Love – Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms’.
[ source of information https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064535961651%5D
Princess Tengku Zatashah Binti Sultan Idris Shah of Malaysia shared on her Instagram:
“#LostYouForever S1 has ended.” This C-drama series is now my number 1 favorite C-drama. I’m so captivated by the story, with the incredible performances of Yang Zi, Deng Wei, Tan Jianci, Zhang Wanyi and Wang Hongyi. The 5 men have a fierce competition for Xiaoyao. If you’ve watched this series, you probably like me. I’m tingling between #TeamTushanJing and #TeamXiangLiu. However, I can’t wait for S2 and hope they’ll be released soon!
I highly recommend this series every episode is geeking me. And the beautiful OST makes me wanna listen again and again.
Who else watched and liked this movie? Drop a comment below’
No, don’t do that, @Kate. 🙂
In this blog, her opinion matters as much as Meghan Markle’s and Kate Middleton’s opinions on this drama. Which is zilch.
lol. That’s the American in me speaking. We don’t recognize any royalties and titles here; we kicked butts — and continue to kick butts — as commoners, plebes, rebels, peasants, and bitches that we are. As far as I’m concerned, IN THIS BLOG, the only people whose opinions and ratings matter on this drama, and other dramas, are YOU and me. Because WE take the time to dissect, ruminate, and pore over the the drama.
That’s why I disregard tv ratings, fangirls and public outcry/adulation here. Who cares about them? lol.
Thanks for letting me know @Packmule3…Noted and understood!
I appreciate you being alert to these things, I don’t want to post contrary to the approach or feel of the blog.
No worries, @Kate. 🙂
Hi @pkml3, it’s good to know you do come by to read us now and then. You’re our sounding board and defence against trolls (of course I know you hardly let them come so far to bother us). I take it that when you are silent, all’s well. LOL.
Truth to tell, I’d be interested that any personages actually put it up in their social media if they liked a show I was watching. That they bothered would mean that the show hit them in the heart. It wouldn’t make me want to watch it more, but it’s a reminder that all of us are just people after all, public office aside.
On the other hand, if the person liking the Show is a critic and reviewer who knows what they are talking about, I’d be very interested to read them and might even want to check out a show they recommend. 🙂
My dear @Kate,
Thank you for your lovely long responses and info about a fellow fan of this Show. It’s always smile-inducing… amusing to know that we are all human and that many of us are touched by the same things. I know I found it so cute (and at that time years ago… I found it unexpected) that celebrities were themselves fans of other celebrities. That they too became shy and tongue-tied in the presence of their ‘idols’ or that they too wanted to have photos taken together with them and to get their autographs. I was so tickled then… and still am.
And it makes complete sense, because they looked up to those ‘idols’ who may have inspired them to enter the entertainment industry as well. Knowing that a show like this is appreciated by persons from all walks of life, makes me feel that I belong to this happy human community. Basically knowing that so-and-so is just a regular human being with a heart and hormones tickles me!
At the same time, I’m glad to know that our opinions matter as much as anyone else’s and that we get to hold forth (respectfully, of course) on any Show related topic that strikes us.
Many thanks to @pkml3 for her generous openness and thoughtful oversight.
I’m going to re-read and respond to you @Kate, as far as I can 😘😊😄
@GB,
Thank you for your comments – much appreciated.
I agree it’s quite amusing the way a show like this – with its engrossing themes about life and love – is such a leveller!
I think that is what we are trying to tease out … the core themes and questions and the way they impact us – why we are so invested in the characters and the narrative, motivations and possible story outcomes.
I am away with work this week so won’t be around – I hope that takes some pressure off you.
Have a great week!
My dear @Kate, the pressure is not from you but from myself and because of my bad memory!! Also I have a sense of the incompleteness of things that’s niggling at me, and that’s why I’m trying to re-watch more fully and put more thoughts out to just get a sense of ‘satisfaction that a job has been done’. I’m glad to say that your contributions normally help me along to realise what else would have shed light, which I missed.
I tried 3 different times to complete a few of my thoughts, but my Monday became a work day (when it’s usually an off day, except for some volunteer work that I do), hence you have not had a chance to read anything yet!!!
I’ll certainly be back to assuage my own sense of dissatisfaction at work half done, that needs to be completed!! 😬😑😁
@GB – I am reassured that you are not being externally driven!
Thank you anyway for your dedication to cover the ground.
It continues to be very fruitful!
@Kate, thank you kindly!! I certainly hope there are fruits here among the grilled fish LOL. Warning – This is looong.
I’m reminded that the first time XY grilled fish for XL was also the first time he bit her in the neck.
Comparing the First and Second Fish-Grilling ‘Dates’
Already in Ep 4, I noticed that XL came unannounced to XY’s Qing Shui home and chatted with her quite comfortably. Later, after Ye Shi Qi played XY out by hiding when CX and A Nian came by, XY was p*ssed and strangely, XL came for her at that time. He ordered her to come up to him and because she was angry, she agreed at once. Shi Qi was there and wanted to protest but was ignored. He remained like a tree, rooted to that spot until XY returned (his waiting without moving annoys me LOL).
I did wonder if XL came because he knew she was angry or whether he just came for no particular reason, because in the end, he never asked her for anything. There was no love bug around at that time. They took a Chubby ride and had 1 of their many intimate conversations. This one was on why XY was angry…. not so much with YSQ but with herself for forgetting not to trust anyone but herself.
XL observed that it’s natural to depend on others (in other words, why is she beating herself up over it) and that’s when he hears that she has no one and nowhere to go.
Her cynical, fatalistic attitude shone through as she spoke on not hoping in people so as to not be disappointed. I found it ironic that she was speaking to the one person she never had any expectations of, and who thus would never disappoint her, but who was also the one person who would not have disappointed her at her greatest need.
They started ‘playing’ together already at this stage. She went swimming and then dared him to race with her in the lake. He played her game by seriously ‘teasing’ her that since she begged him, he would deign to compete with her. I note that even at this time, XL turned to look at XY quite a bit and kept watching her as she elegantly dropped into the lake.
When on the shore, she roasted a fish for him, they continued their friendly conversation on where she was from (he asked if she was from Haoling) and how her joy in swimming was probably a result of enjoying swimming as a child. XY however got naughty and started to push all XL’s buttons by endless teasing about his 9 heads. That’s when he used the mute spell on her, threatened to eat her and made good on his word by biting her. I rather think that he was still half serious and half playing, in that he had no real intention of eating her, but did not want her to get the idea that she could provoke him endlessly.
We know how that episode turned out… he discovered the treasure in her body ie her healing blood and scared her by drinking a bit more.
What was the same or different between the two fish-grilling dates? By the time of the second fish-grilling ‘date’, they have gone through enough intimate events together. They have built up trust.
• Instead of ordering XY to come to him, XY dares XY to join him for fun and games .
• Both times SQ/Jing is left standing there, upset to witness XY going off willingly with XL. In addition, this time CX was upset that XY had disappeared from his wedding.
• The first time XY had been a man competing with another man and swam straight to shore. The second time she is a woman and the dynamics of their interactions had changed, with them both underwater and the ‘no kiss’ scene in their memories.
• Both dates had the element of the neck bite. The first time it had happened on shore. The second time it didn’t happen although XL threatened to do so, but XY easily pushed him away. He no longer forces her to take the bites.
• Instead of competing because they were ‘both men’ the first time, comparing the differences in their speed, XY although now a woman discovered that she and XL were more alike than she had imagined, since she too had the ability to breathe and speak underwater.
• The first time, not only was a kiss not at all in the equation, the neck bite was a total shocker. The second time, as noted before, XY had no hope in Jing and was willing to let XL kiss her, but not to bite her in the neck. Without Jing in the picture, she might have considered XL as a candidate for boyfriend, but XL was more prudent than Jing.
• The first time, the poor grilled fish was forgotten in the shock of the neck bite. The second time there was more fish and even poison to marinade it with, LOL. There was even wine? And XL joined in adding ‘poison’ to the drink. They seemed to have a more complete meal together while enjoying the scenery. They were on a more equal footing.
• XY herself admitted how she’d previously thought she had nowhere to go and no one to go home to that first time, but now she wanted to travel to all other lands (run away?) although she had a home and people waiting for her.
• The first time XY had been frightened by the neck bite and XL threatened to drag her over to Chubby to take the ride home. She’d ridden beside him subdued. This time XY claims that she wants to travel to other islands and might have wanted XL to go with her (at least he has the means of transportation, you know!) but he immediately put a damper on that expectation. I don’t think she meant it when she said that she had no intention of traveling with an annoying companion (like him). We know that they spent a lot of time together without annoying each other much.
• In the past, XY is expected to drop everything when XL summoned her. It’s interesting that XL now categorically says he will not accompany her (so unlike Jing who’d offer to abandon everything and go with her). I believe it’s because he takes his and her responsibilities seriously enough that he knows they should not just disappear. XL is the more mature between XY, Jing and XL.
• The first time she returned to a worriedly waiting Shi Qi. The second time she returns to an angry CX.
Hi @GB
Commenting during my lunch hour.
Another very enjoyable read. I never thought of a comparison between the two grilled fish episodes… very telling in terms of changes in the Xl-XY relationship!
I laugh now when I read your muttering asides about YS/Jing!!
It is easier for us as an audience to cope with the male XY, being played as he is by Yang Zi. Imagine if that role had been played by a male actor…
It is a good thing XL can see through the middle-aged man disguise. Would he have tolerated XY as a man through and through? Possibly, as a buddy and drinking partner (hahaha). But we will never know because XL knew from the outset, as XY sang to draw FeiFei to her, that this person was a woman.
When you talk about that scene when XY spills her guts, metaphorically, to the one person she had no expectations of – yes, that’s such a good point @GB – and talks about non-belonging etc – I am reminded of the scene when XL mutters to himself later – very bitterly – about XY’s dishonesty in talking about herself in this way when she was, in fact, a member of the Royal Family.
Do you remember where that scene comes? It is around the time either before or during the ceremony where XY goes public as the Princess of Haoling.
I really thought at that point that XL would wreak revenge!
Yes, I like your point about XL as the boundaried, responsible, realist. His FFB side pushes the envelope but is held in check. He doesn’t give more than he thinks he can and should.
XY running away to be with XL, leaving other admirers hurt and angry, is also, arguably, about her running away to be with an aspect of herself that she can only be with him.
We know the link between them is growing and also that she has a pre-existing link with him – most likely. She is – we think although unconfirmed- likely to be of human and demon origin. So she provides him with human warmth, fun, and care and he enhances her awareness of who she is.
@Kate
I’m glad you had a chance to read my musings during lunch. I was trying to post this since early morning, and failed twice or three times, but the latest ‘incarnation’ of my thoughts are probably more succinct and so hopefully better.
Oh dear, yes!!! I’m actually quite in awe of both Shi Qi and XL that they could see the woman behind the middle-aged man and start to fall for her already. We know that SQ started really early out of gratitude, while I’m guessing that XL got interested in the real woman behind the middle-aged man when XY spoke of having nowhere to belong.
That’s likely why (my guess only!) he was so cross when he found out that not only did she have a place to belong to but more than one place, and more than one person to belong to as well.
To your question: this reveal took place when the invitations were sent out by Haoling King and the Storyteller Rock announced that the Princess had been found. Somehow XL put 2-and-2 together when XY’s old Qing Shui Town friends were mentioning Wen Xiao Liu in the same breath as the Great Princess of Haoling. (I like that scene where he drank wine and threw away the bottle so crossly. Such stylish vehemence!! LOL).
Ah thanks for reminding me… I wanted to expand on this point a bit.
Expanding on the irony of XY complaining to XL about hoping in others who disappoint her:
She’s saying those words to XL in whom she never hoped and who therefore never disappointed her, while he was the one who tried to help her fulfill her hopes.
For eg, he reluctantly pushed her towards Jing or let her go to him. It was only after she’d been heartbroken that he took her away from Jing who was watching them.
Although she never thought of depending on him, she did ultimately depend on him to save her life.
It was XL who offered her the means (the special bow and archery) to protect both CX and herself (from himself LOL) which were her biggest objectives when she agreed to become Princess.
The other twist in the irony … Jing in whom she did hope, let her down at least 4 times! Once as Shi Qi who ran away when CX and A Nian came to visit, then as Jing whom his maid refused to let go of so he could not even go home with her, then as the clan head who could not become Ye Shi Qi for her and worst of all as the husband of Yiying and supposed father of a new baby of the Tushan Clan.
To that I still add his pathetic non-attempt to save their lives when he first found XY almost dead. There was probably a small window of opportunity when he could have done something other than sit there, waiting to die (once again rooted to the spot. SIGH). With Jing alone, there would have been NO HOPE for XY to have recovered.
He was prepared to let down everyone… his grandmother and the entire clan by committing suicide over 1 love.
XY had at one time praised Jing for his gentleness (his greatest obstacle) and said that she loved him for not being so hard-hearted like herself, but had instead put his grandmother first. However we see that before this, he had been willing to put himself first before all who had a claim on him. 😤😠😑 So much for depending on Jing.
(Continuing…)
@Kate you mentioned before that XL always kept a respectful distance (when XY became a woman). He successfully put on the show of being a libertine without actually being one. He strikes me as particularly mature and unexpectedly others-centred.
I like how he’d been the first to dare her to abandon her role as princess to wander with him, and in Ep 37 we see her wishing to wander the world (probably with him) but he discourages her. Seeing that she’s in an upset frame of mind after meeting Jing at CX’s wedding, any decision she makes will be unwise. Once again XL does the responsible thing. He does not dare her to go, because he knows she’d take up the challenge at once. Instead he says a flat ‘No’ if she expects him to go with her.
It occurs to me that his rejection may have surprised her, since he had been the one to first broach the subject of wandering off together.
I like your thoughts that … blockquote>XY running away to be with XL, leaving other admirers hurt and angry, is also, arguably, about her running away to be with an aspect of herself that she can only be with him. I agree that XL brings out something extra in XY. Maybe a greater playfulness, more sarcasm and less filters to her thoughts. LOL.
Good point and a pretty good exchange, I feel. As I said somewhere before, I really want that she gets more spirit power from the demon side of her heritage. I’d like to see her kick butt with flying hair like XL! 😂
So good @GB – I’ll respond after work this evening!
I love that final point…LOL!!
Hello, i’ve been lurking for a month reading the discussions. I want to precise something. XY’s father is not a demon, but is a deity. He was just very late in being enlightened and achieving human form. He is a godly beast just like the ancestral nine-tailed fox of the Tushan clan. He is called demon because of his “cruelty”. He used any means necessary to achieve his objectives, like wiping out corrupted clans in Chengrong with the king’s aval. Because he was an outsider, he ended up taking all the blame.
Just like many characters are derived from chinese mythology, this is the one about XY’s father : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiyou#:~:text=Chiyou%20(%E8%9A%A9%E5%B0%A4%3B%20Old%20Chinese%20(,Emperors%20era%20in%20Chinese%20mythology.
@Kate, thanks for the FB link to articles/posts.
I read the first long post by Pa Na Lor taken from Koala’s Playground on XY’s love language. I can only judge from myself. If I truly fell in love at first sight (the contention is that XY fell for XL at first sight) with person B (Xian Liu), there is really no way that I can be happily also loving romantically person C (Jing) to the extent that I’d be heartbroken.
I would not be able to force myself to love C when my heart is already engaged by A. The article says that XY was pragmatic, pessimistic and sceptical and went with her brain instead of her heart, however the very phrase ‘fall in love’ means going into it with the heart. Even if I could put the heart aside and let the brain take over, there’s no way that I could then love C to the extent that XY seems to love Jing.
My subjective conclusion therefore is that while XY was attracted by XL, she grew to greater fondness of him over time. By the time in Episode 25 as mentioned at timestamp 18:25, she looked back with fondness at their interactions. She has developed love for XL but not the kind of love that would push Jing away.
The only time in Season 1 when XY could have changed to love XL more, was when she decided to let him kiss her underwater. However XL wisely did not take advantage of that time because she had just been distraught and heartbroken. He knew a kiss then would have complicated everything and been a disservice to their relationship. In any case, I’m sure XL would have been proud enough to require that XY came to him on her own volition because of positive feelings for him, rather than because of negative feelings for Jing.
If it’s any consolation for those who really wanted a kiss between them… let it be a happy reminder that the first kiss (to give air) to ever take place in this show was between XL and Wen Xiao Liu. This was when XL had almost drowned Xiao Liu in order to affect CX who had the poisonous bug then.
@Kate, about the song that XY sang to Feifei… it’s not shown, I think, that she sang that song to CX. I just imagine that he’d have heard it anyway, even before Xin Yue sang it to him.
As for the FB poster who said the time that XL entered the frame during the song was significant, I felt too much was read into it. It was enough that the song and Feifei’s response indicated to XL that the middle-aged man was actually a woman.
@GB
Yes, to ‘the sylish vehemence’ of XL – thank you for locating that for me. I haven’t been able to re-locate the moment.
Yes – nowhere to belong and people (including CX the mortal enemy) to belong to! It must have been a bitter pill for XL to swallow – having absorbed the love bug!!
Ok another question… would he have been open to the love bug with that prior information??
I so agree with your expanded discussion of irony in relation to XY’s apparent non-dependence on XL and her desire to depend on Jing.
What about dangerous eros/passion/being swept away as an aspect of the relationship with XL/FFB? Dangerous masculinity as opposed to devoted masculinity. Jing was never meant to threaten XY with his masculinity was he? Except – of course – when she welcomed his initiative in that great kiss scene.
You and I were both delighted. Jing appeared to have knocked it out of the park – there was some attack to that kiss.
There are descriptions in the book of XY’s enjoyment of the Jing kiss… so Tong Hua doesn’t present him as lacking in testosterone…
But his is, nevertheless, more of a courtly courtship rather than a dangerous courtship.
@GB – fair points re that more romanticised perspective.
I think we all want the intensification of the XL- XY romance to have it sit neatly in a particular place in our thinking.
It is simply more complex and less knowable than that.
Thank you for sleuthing out.
When I read the book, I’ll look for more clues.
I suspect Tong Hua allows things to be bitter sweet and edgier… She isn’t a sugary writer.
@Ewiecharlie,
Just saw your posts. Thank you.
So XY’s father is a cruel deity rather than a demon. He is called a demon because of his qualities as deity.
I rather wonder why XY’s Mum had an affair with him – if she did – if he was a brutish deity. We will no doubt get more facts on that.
I have to say this whole demon/deity thing works very differently in Chinese mythology from what I am used to.
We need to keep an eye on the way this develops in the storyline.
Do please drop by again if we have the wrong end of the stick!
In fact, do add your thoughts whenever you fancy.
I also feel that the prequel by Tong Hua is something to read… that would probably help get the foundations of the story completely clear.
@Ewicharlie, welcome to commenting on BOD. Thanks for giving us information that you have found out about XY’s father. I agree with @Kate that if we read the pre-history/prequel of the current Show we might get more info on what Tong Hua had in mind for her characters. Most of the time, I want to get the relevant information from the Show itself, as if there were no external source material.
Regardless of whether Chi Chen (based possibly on Chiyou) was true demon or deity, the question still arises about how XY’s mother (Xiling Heng) ended up marrying Chi Chen (he is after all said to have lived with his wife for a while) and then also marrying the King of Haoling. Then the question arises about why the King of Haoling (who should know better) decides to own XY as his own daughter.
The love that Haoling King has for Xiling Heng must have been tremendous for him to protect both mother and daughter by taking them as his principal family. We see now what would have happened to them if anyone linked Heng and XY to Chi Chen. And yet, despite Haoling’s goodness, Heng divorced him and went back, ultimately to fight with Xiyan’s army. As far as I can tell, Heng’s mother was the grandmother of XY and CX, Xiling Xie. I felt that she chose to fight as the Princess General but that she actually could have opted out, because her surname is Xiling and not Xiyan.
The way the battle was narrated, made it sound like Heng met Chi Chen on the battlefield and that they both killed each other. I wonder if I got that right. Again… a reading of the prequel might be needed in order to know. If so, what a tragedy that ex-husband and ex-wife end up on opposite sides to battle each other and die at each other’s hands.
@GB I don’t know if they’ll ever explain in the drama, the answer is indeed in the prequel. In the prequel and nouvel, she is Xiyan. Xiling is the name she goes by when wandering the wilderness. She is the king’s only daughter. She met Chi Chen first and was later engaged to the first prince of Haoling. Many things happen that force her to finally accept to marry the Haoling 1st prince. She and the Haoling prince agree to a marriage of convenience until he manages to become the next Haoling king then she is free to pursue her happiness. Of course things happen and she ends up keeping the pretense as the Haoling queen while at the same time being Chi Chen’s wife. By this time, the Haoling king ends up falling in love with her but she is already pregnant with Chi Chen’s child.
And where is Chi Chen? He is in a coma and has already earned his bad reputation.
When XY is born it is obvious whose child she is, so the Haoling king and queen decide to change her appearance with the rejuvenating flower. War happens and with most of her brothers dead, she divorces and ends up commanding the army against Chi Chen.
Wow @Ewicharlie, thanks very much for a very succinct and informative summary of the prequel. That’s much needed background to understand why XY has the rejuvenating flower. However according to the man who wanted to assassinate her, she has her father’s (Chi Chen’s) eyes, so the flower did not change some of her appearance.
I guess if I really want to know why XY’s mother decided to do what she did, I’ll have to read the prequel, but I don’t find it so compelling to have to know that unless it impacts what happens in the future.
One question I have about these deities… if they can live over a thousand years and still look like children after a hundred years, then how long is their gestation period? LOL. Do their mothers have pregnancies that last for years?
It seems to me that no one can tell who the father of a child is, if the gestation period is very long. Take the case of Jing and Yiying. Yiying was most likely pregnant with Hou’s child in Ep 34, but it’s only made obvious in Ep 36 I think. Jing was practically unconscious and knows nothing, and so cannot refute the claim that the baby is his. However Yiying might have been pregnant for several weeks or months before that fateful night when Jing was entrapped by her and Grand Madam.
THE SEASON 1 BOOKENDING (Episode 1 compared with Episodes 38 and 39)
I’m sure there are other points of comparison between the beginning and the ending of Season 1. I’m just mentioning the few obvious ones that struck me. I like bookending scenes because they show that the Writer planned the ending from the start and successfully led us to the finish line.
1)The red Ruomu flower: CX’s mother came from the Ruomu Clan and wore the flower in her hair. Before she kills herself, she gives CX the flower, telling him to give it to his beloved in the future. In Ep 39 CX leaves the flower in XY’s hair after he gives her the sleeping draft. When juxtaposed, the bookend leaves one in no doubt that XY is the one CX loves.
2)In Ep 1 child CX speaks with Grandfather after XY’s mother’s death is announced and CX is told to be a hero like his parents and XY’s parents.
CX : “I swear I won’t become like them. I swear I won’t do what they did and leave my wife, my mother, and my children, in endless grief and pain without someone to rely on. I will live on. I will live on well. I will be the King of Xiyan.”
King of Xiyan : “To be the King of Xiyan is even harder than being a hero. It is an arduous and dangerous journey.”
CX : “I’m not scared. I promised my granny and auntie to protect Zhaoyun Park and XY. There’s nothing I won’t do to grow powerful.”
King of Xiyan : “Okay, I will wait to see that.”
In Ep 39 Grandfather says that he has already cultivated the best king for Xiyan. He crowns CX and nods in approval. The camera angle makes the roof of Daming Hall high behind him look like wings on his back. Later we get the same camera angle for the shot of CX standing before the hall, wearing the double dragon crown and with the ‘wings’ of the roof behind him.
3) In Ep 1 Yue Liang and other kids had knocked CX down and jeered at him. In Ep 39 I enjoyed a great deal of delight seeing his evil uncles and cousins kneel before him.
CX had carried out his promise “There’s nothing I won’t do to grow powerful.” And Grandpa has also kept his promise to wait and see. I mentioned before that Grandpa had been grooming CX since he was a child, keeping him under surveillance, testing him and protecting him at the same time by distancing himself from his beloved grandson. Abdicating in CX’s favour had been on his mind for centuries.
4) In Ep 1, CX and XY had promised to be together always as siblings, with XY saying that the next time he got bullied, CX should call her and she’d protect CX. In Ep 39, CX sends XY away (unsuccessfully) to separate her from him and keep her safe, before he risks his life attending the worship ceremony. XY however had the wit to pretend to be asleep and to sneak in to the coronation ceremony, bow and arrow at the ready to protect CX.
5)In Ep 38-39 CX comforts XY who admits that she cannot control her feelings for Jing and is depressed. Out of the blue CX insists that XY lets him carry her home. He walks through the carpet of red Poinciana flowers with XY on his back. The piggy back ride scene felt out of place to me, until I re-watched Ep 1. There, XY had fought off the cousins who had bullied CX. She had comforted CX and carried him across a carpet of Poinciana flowers. As an adult, he was finally able to return the favour.
As a child CX had said more than once that he would protect his aunt, cousin, etc… but had been told that he was a silly child without the power to do so. As an adult, CX had finally gained the power he craved to protect those under him and XY.
I’m putting this here so that we don’t lose it. Here’s a nice long interview with Tan Jian Ci speaking about the character of Xiang Liu. When asked when XL fell in love with XY, he cleverly says the audience will know LOL.
@GB – thank you.
Great September 5th post on bookends and intentionality in the shape of the story!
September 6th. This is a super interview. I like the fact that he has engaged so thoughtfully and sensitively with his character. His attention to detail has payed off.
*has paid off* – brain dead after work event!
Thank you for your kind words, @Kate. I took a break from Lost You Forever and binged 20 episodes of Under Your Skin. I enjoyed that Tan Jian Ci fix LOL.
Sounds fun @GB! I’ve messaged you briefly about the trip I mentioned btw.
Hi @Kate, I saw and replied. Do let me know when you’re back from your busy week and when you’re going off again. I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Lost You Forever part 2 has got its licence to air today which means it can air anytime now. Everyone is just waiting for a date.
That’s good news @Ewicharlie!
I am seeing the news about the licence to air but people seem to be saying that Season 2 will still have to wait until next year to be broadcast.
@Ewicharlie if you are part of a discussion that has additional information and reason for optimism about an earlier release – do let us know.
@Ewicharlie and @Kate
Notwithstanding the novel saying that Chi Chen was not a real demon, what struck me in Episode 15 was that in XY’s flashback narrative of what she went through as a child, she was able to kill the nine-tailed fox who had imprisoned her. Show depicts her eyes turning red when she poisoned him, like how XL’s eyes turn red when he’s in demon mode. I suspected from then that she really has demon blood in her.
I’m putting this out here because I’ll forget it again when I move on.
@GB – noted for the record!!
That is a very good point…
Looking forward to seeing how things unfold.
Her eyes turned purple. XL’s eyes not only turn red but serpentine while XY only had the outer circle turn purple.
If i remember correctly, there was a time Chi Chen had to call up all of the power of nature while seriously injures when his eyes might have changed colour. So XY must have gotten those from him. Chi Chen was a unique deity. He was called “king of the beasts” because he had control on all animals without using any Magic. At the same time he could use all five elements while all other deities could use at most two. Many times in Once Promised you feel that Chi Chen is the manifestation of nature. In his last moment he used his blood to grow recreate life on scorched soil.
I realise XY being stripped of her powers helped hide her identity.
Hi @Ewicharlie, this is so interesting!! Thanks for sharing what you know of ‘Once Promised’. It sounds like although it was done for evil and selfish reasons, the Fox who tried to take XY’s powers away did her a favour inadvertently. I assume that if she ever manifested the same powers as Chi Chen, she’d be targeted at once, and assassinated.
I’d like to see if she ever has the chance to regain any spirit power. It seems that she cannot even cultivate anymore to increase what little she has.
Latest news through AvenueX is that Season 2 may air as soon as end of this year!!! So we may not need to wait for 12 months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=285i_ugyeq4
Now I’m tempted to read the ‘Once Promised’ prequel or to sneak a peek at the novel’s version of LYF’s ending. But I still prefer to not be spoiled and I have little time!!
I’ve happily spoiled myself as to the book’s ending, by reading up MDL comments on the relationship between XL and XY. It clarified quite a few things. I have to agree with comments that despite knowing what the ending is likely to be, I’m still going to watch S2 for the amazing acting of Tan Jian Ci and Yang Zi, and the others. Also, the ending makes complete sense, and that’s a great ending to me!!!
I will watch to see if the ending is as expected from the novel (not that I read it) or whether Tong Hua was able to twist it into something else.
I don’t know whether to read the novel before Season 2 airs… I know enough of the ending now to know whether Tong Hua has made significant twists when we see the final episodes…
Having watched another of her shows… her not liking an ending won’t necessarily mean she changes it to something happier… If she is going to keep the basic story in tact… I would like her to make one change and that is that XY is allowed to know what has been done on her behalf. I know that will be painful but I also want credit to go where credit is due!
@Kate, while I usually feel and would heartily agree with you, there’s something I read that got me thinking, it was for the best that XY may never have known fully, the extent of his generosity and sacrifice for her.
Well… I can’t strongly disagree with you on that @GB!! It would be a heavy load. I struggle with the thought of his simply melting out of sight. Sigh!!
I’d really like to see if Tong Hua could change the ending to be quite the opposite and still keep everything consistent… but I am not hopeful.
Yes, let’s hope for that!!! Otherwise, it will be chocolates and therapy for us!
Super dark chocs 70% cacao for me!! LOL.
Here’s an interesting mash-up cut or edit of at least 3 shows. I recognise 2 of them and am guessing as to the third. Obviously made by/for fans who want a Yang Zi and Tan Jian Ci pairing, LOL. The contemporary TJC drama is “Under the Skin”. The contemporary Yang Zi drama is – I’m guessing – “The Psychologist”.
It’s so well done that the modern and period dramas flow into each other as if they were made to tell one story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExRBnBYrYq8
Below is the link to the Chinese video site bilibili, with TJC reacting to the edits with his pets. Too cute.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Bj411171b/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
Hi @GB… the edits with the pets video made me smile from ear to ear.
Thank you for the other link. I’ll watch later today! x
@Kate, I looked up TJC and dogs on YT but found not only those cute furry friends but also a new way of presenting the video of TJC doing the sweet girly dance, as if it was a flip book!! I’ve seen the video but this was quite a novel way to present it. It’s the first short.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lA0brXr5Io0
The little dogs appear in a few shorts here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nHLJFn-osWE
@GB – super cute. Thank you. I am more of a dog person than a cat person myself!
The reason the shipping wars are so intense in Lost You Forever is because in the novel, XY’s actions contradict her words. She says she wants to be with TSJ, yet acts very ambiguous with XL.
For ex, Ep 23: TSJ immediately sees the intimacy of XY sleeping in her boudoir with just a curtain separating her and FFB. These are things you only do with your closest family members or your husband. And FFB looks a lot like XL.
Ep 25: When FFB entered her chambers and she realises he’s injured, she puts him on the bed and jumps into bed with him, covering them both with the blanket. She is in a state of undress (we know because her maid who alerts her of her cousin’s searching tells her to get dressed) and her cousin, after searching sees the chest cover, realises she’s wearing nothing underneath and starts leering towards her bosom. She notices the leering, sees the chest cover hanging on the bed, throws him out of her room, puts the chest cover away, snuffs out the lights and jumps right back in bed with FFB. So she’s very aware of the sexual implication of lying on the same bed not very dressed with FFB. After she has confirmed FFB=XL, when she offers her wrist, she turns her body so she can see him drink from her. She watches intently, gets turned on, when he looks up, lies to herself she’s shying away because she’s still afraid from him. As soon as XL realises he’s draining her, he gives her some tonic, lies back down to start healing himself. What does XY do? She lies back down on the same bed while watching heal all night! What happened to propriety? Her 15 year promise to TSJ?!
Ep 27: The first time TSJ takes her to Chi Chen’s abode after he has gifted her the purple fish core, there is a pond there she wants to frolick in but as soon as she enters the water, she starts thinking about XL. To distract herself she persuades Jing to swim to the bottom of the pond with her, then stops him from going up to get some air passes him through her lips, continues to hold him down while pointing at her lips. Jing refuses, extract himself from her, forcefully swims up and when she comes up she asks why he refused to get air from her
He tells it’s because he was not in her eyes at that moment. They don’t talk for a long moment then when they have calmed down, she tells him she likes him for his kindness and that placates him.
Ep 31-32: In the novel, XL cuddles her to sleep after every healing session.
Ep 37: When XY’s heart hurts, she mumbles for XL to cut it out and TSJ who is taking care of her, hears her (her reaction has nothing to do with him). In the ocean, XL tells her the clam shell is the mercouple’s home and where they will raise their young. This leads her to think about the clam shell she slept in for 37 years, how they shared a pillow for 37 years like a married couple. She starts wondering if XL considers their clam shell their home and with that train of thought, her heart starts beating fast, XL feels it, his own heart starts beating fast, she feels it and he immediately cuts the connection off leading to wonder if she imagined his reaction. She realises XL does not want her to know how tender and intimate he was with her during her coma so she decides to keep the memories buried deep inside of her and never reveal she was conscious at that time.
The drama censored many of their interactions because God forbid a heroine loves more than 1 man at the same time.
@Ewicharlie – this is very interesting and very juicy detail.
That really casts light on the ambiguity issue with XY’s relationships.
Thank you.
What a shame it was censored. Perhaps they didn’t want XY’s character to be on the receiving end of public shaming??
Thanks @Ewicharlie, I guessed that there might have been more going on in the novel, but not quite so much in the ‘tending towards risque’ quarter and on the part of XY!
I agree with @Kate, I feel, from an outsider point-of-view, that if XY had acted that way in the drama, I would not have liked her. She was behaving like a fickle child when she was an adult who had once taken great care of others. What happened to the self-sacrificing, mature Wen Xiao Liu? Did her personality get changed to serve the ‘multiple lovers’ plot?
The novel makes her behaviour skim the edge of almost selfishly hanging on to 2 men for her own reasons. I believe on the one hand, she could not exactly get rid of XL since he needed her help to heal, and (I read comments on this) although she would have preferred to be with XL, she chose TSJ for the security of his ultimate faithfulness and because he was ‘obedient’. Poor TSJ sounds like the family dog. The beloved pet, but never the master? In any case, presumably she’s in denial so I gather that she did not tell TSJ how she really felt. She used him as a smokescreen, lying to herself that she did not care for XL in the romantic way. It would be worse if she knew how she felt and still continued as she did with TSJ.
It’s unfortunate that once again the character who starts out as someone to be respected becomes someone grey … whom one cannot totally approve of. She demanded faithfulness in others, but was not emotionally faithful to them or even to herself.
By comparison (again from comments I read), XL was sincerely generous and self-sacrificing towards XY, ie… his love was true. He never professed his love so we cannot say that he ‘walked the talk’, however XY who claimed to love TSJ did profess her love, but her behaviour in the novel belies that, and so she looks like a hypocrite.
We wait to see if Season 2 will follow the novel. If it does, then the novel’s end is probably the most fitting.
TSJ and XY remind me of Chuan Zi and San Tian’Er; the false affection turning into real affection. The nicer he is to her, the better she treats him until it turns into true love.
It’s very difficult for XY: on the one hand she has her promise to TSJ and she is trying to stay committed to it despite him parading his fiancée in her face every time she goes in public, on the other hand she is extremely attracted to XL and has to actively stop herself from falling deeper, not only to stay loyal to TSJ but because XL keeps reminding her he’s not an option.
@Ewicharlie, did the novel end before the promise of waiting 15 years for TSJ or did it go beyond it to hundreds of years after?
The latter.
Whatever happens in Season 2 – we have the advantage of this conversation.
Thank you @Ewicharlie.
I agree with your points @GB. In fact, for me XY is already dancing around that possibility of being too selfish for us to like.
But I see from @Ewiecharlie’s comments that she is in a bind of sorts!
Thanks @Ewicharlie. I should have asked if TSJ managed to jettison wife and child (we guess whose) within the 15 years or not. Was XY still bound by the 15 years wait?
Hi @Kate, I agree that XY is in a difficult position. What she might have some control over is whether she hurts TSJ or not. TSJ might be smart in business and great in the arts, but his one big failing was pledging himself to XY for all time, and then having to stomach all kinds of inadvertent hurts/betrayal.
It occurred to me that the main characters each decided on their own goal and then ‘enslaved’ themselves in some way to achieve their goals. XY’s goal might be to never be alone or abandoned again. In order to fulfill this, she makes the promise to Jing.
Jing’s enslavement is to always be with XY. CX’s is to be a strong and successful ruler who would not be bullied. XL’s is frustratingly to die in battle while supporting the rebels of his foster father. They essentially trapped themselves by the pledges they made, which led to their living their lives without achieving full happiness.
I gather from comments that ultimately XL of the novel might be considered the most successful in that he managed to achieve what he aimed for. He was able to love XY, ensure that she was not alone, that she had a place to be/go to and then to fulfill his own commitment without dragging her down.
Yes, to our having this conversation to come back to regardless of how frustrating Season 2 turns out. 🙂
@GB – what a good summary of the nubby issues underlying this plot.
Thank you.
Very late to this post.But just discovered your site following a search for reviews of this show.
The answer to whether Jing managed to solve his wife and “child” issue within the 15 years is, no. In fact he didn’t manage to get himself out of the situation until XY helped him. Not the most competent person, I’m afraid.
I’m a little concerned about the possible changes to the second season which may change the characters and relationships from the novel too much. That’s the risk of watching an adaptation of a novel that you like.
Hi @Cali, thanks for the lowdown from the novel. I believe Jing is considered capable only in areas of business. I loathed how the character was portrayed so hang-dog and lacking in vigour as he mainly waited,… and waited for his beloved. Granted he couldn’t do much as an almost married, and then as a married man, but the way his character was rendered made me brush him aside as an irritating extra.
Yes.To me, Jing is a rather weak and passive character in the novel. There were many opportunities for the author to “change” him for the better, but she frustratingly chose to keep him incompetent/helpless to the very end. It’s bad enough that he couldn’t resolve his issues for a decade+, XY had to help him to fix the issue by pretending to “seduce” his brother. It does not make him look good at all. I don’t know how much novel spoilers you want, but it seems that they are changing the drama so that he doesn’t come across as so helpless and downplaying Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu’s connection/love as well.
@Cali, I don’t really need to know yet how the novel had it pan out. I think after I see Season 2, I’ll want to know, but now, I’ll just take S2 as it is, whatever it will be. I read bits and pieces of conversations that give me an idea of the end for Xiang Liu, and if that ending makes sense, I’m okay with it. It’s just that the show has to make it believable and coherent until the end.
Hence, I’ll probably prefer Jing to be incompetent til the end as well and not have a sudden personality transplant. 😆
Highly doubtful that they will change the ending for XL and it’s very much in line with his character. Frankly, he’s very key to LYF being memorable so they won’t deviate. Although there’s a good chance that they’ll give Jing a personality transplant so you won’t get everything that you asked for 🙂
I noticed the comments about Xiao Yao’s selfishness and fickleness; something that some novel readers struggled with with this character. I think they’ve toned it down for the drama because 1) they don’t want the FL to get criticized and 2) they are pushing hard for the 1:1 pairing between Xiao Yao and Jing – due to censorship issues. In the novel, her feelings for Xiang Liu are apparent, particularly given the Lovers Bugs connection. Xiang Liu is the person that she wants, but can’t have/is too afraid to go for while Jing is the puppy whose adoration meets her request to always be placed first (that’s not to say that she doesn’t have affection/care for him). For Xiao Yao, it’s a case of learning to love what you have because you can’t have what you want.
It’s fascinating to watch a drama adaptation of a book that you like and see how people who haven’t read the novel react/respond to the story. Particularly with the potential changes – the novel reader in me is screaming “you can’t do that” :). And all the details that get left out which impact the understanding of the story (IMO, of course).
@Cali, I trust that you’ll still enjoy the adaptation despite its leaving out important details.
Did the novel say how aware Jing was that XY actually preferred XL if only he’d let her? It would have been even more pathetic that knowing this, Jing still went ahead full-heartedly, expecting XY to finally come around to loving him, in the same way as she loves XL.
@GrowingBeautifully
How much I’ll enjoy the drama overall will depends on how season 2 turn out. If the leak S2 script panned out then it’s not good, IMO. Season 1 have been satisfactory. There are some changes that I didn’t like (the scene of FFB revealed as XL in XY’s bedroom another poster mentioned above), and while TJC’s XL is slightly different from novel XL, I enjoyed his performance overall.It’s expected for any adaptation that it won’t 100% follow the novel.
Before I answer your question, I would like to note that XL is my favourite character from the book, I believe that there is mutual love between him and XY although I don’t necessarily ship them together. So while I think my understanding/interpretations are fair, if you ask some hardcore Jing’s fan, they’ll tell you that XY only sees XL as a friend and his love is unrequited :-). With that said…
While the novel did not say straight out, I think it can reasonably be deducted. First, Jing mentioned on some occasions that he knows that he’s not the best match for her and that FFB is better suited to her (he knows that FFB is XL), but that he just can’t let her go. Second, Jing has a certain tendency to “be around” whenever XY is alone together with XL/FFB. It’s like he’s insecure and want to keep an eye on things. There were a few occasions when XY unconsciously chased after XL, completely forgetting about Jing being there. In one particular scene Jing had to physically pulled her back instinctively because he was afraid that if he didn’t she would vanish from his life. This was after they came from seeing the Voodoo King and XY (and Jing) learn the true meaning/extend of the Lovers Bugs.
IMO, Jing is well aware of XY’s feeling for XL and part of the reason that he asked for the 15 years promise stemmed from wanting to locked her down and giving himself the best chance possible. But Jing will never let XY go because she has became his reason for living so when she “died” following the assassination, he had no reason to live and wanted to die with her.
LYF is an interesting book where the author hid the XY/XL love line, using the Lovers Bugs as the most obvious indicator of their mutual love. But even that get dismissed by some readers/viewers. However, some of the author’s interviews and the forewords in the first edition of the novel are strong indicators what what she’s trying to tell with the story. IMO, of course :-).
@Cali, I guess this is partly the reason I don’t read the source material. I’d be comparing and might become unhappy.
Having not read what XL’s character is like, I have come to like the way TJC portrays him. So much quiet restraint on one hand or suddenly all out shock tactics. He makes XL so interesting. Every other character pales by comparison.
I’m sure that if I read the novel, XL would also be my fave character. And yes, I do want to believe that they like, or better yet, love each other mutually. Season 1 has managed to depict this, despite XY’s dallying with Jing.
Season 1 did not show specifically that Jing knows FFB is XL, but we guess that he really should have found out through his wide network of spies. I find Jing stupidly weak in the sense that he has placed his whole existence at XY’s disposal, lives only for her, etc… It makes no sense to me (I’m often the no nonsense type) that anyone does that. There’s so much else to live for but he only lives selfishly, as long as she’s around, and he’s likely to die if she isn’t.
Naturally it turns out as you say that he cannot let XY go, even when he knows how XL and XY feel about each other. It’s pathetic that he’s so willing to play second fiddle, or to be the spare because the preferred one cannot be attained. I cannot find such a character admirable at all.
I agree that the Love Bugs are a clear indication of XL and XY’s mutual love. Of course, some may argue that even ‘sibling love’ (like before when the bug did enter Cang Xuan), or some other kind of love might be what exists between them, however I am convinced that they are romantically
in love, but are not openly expressing it.
I’m glad the author gave enough clues and info in her interviews. It shows that we are not way off in fairyland, trying to delude ourselves!!!
@GrowingBeautifully
Watching an adaptation of a work that you like is risky since it’s not feasible or likely that no deviations will be made. I wasn’t going to watch LYF the drama for that reason, but TJC’s XL sucked me in. I made the mistake of watching a few short clips of him and that was it. XL is quite opaque in the novel – the author does not give much if anything from his perspective. TJC gives you glimpses into XL’s inner world and emotions that helped make him 3D instead of the cold-faced figure that he could have been in the hands of a less competent actor. Hence, while some loyal XL’s fans from the novel dislike certain changes in the drama, most enjoy TJC’s XL.
I think it’s a testament to the character’s appeal that despite the drama elevating Jing and the XY/Jing relationship and downplaying many of XY/XL’s moments/connections, there are still a fair number of viewers who prefer XL and the XY/XL’s relationship. When the novel was released more than 10 years ago, XL was the overwhelming fan favourite. And despite Jing ending up with XY, the question of who is the actual romantic male lead has never gone away. This showed that he’s not your typical second male lead with unrequited love and this isn’t your typical love triangle. The author’s many interviews surrounding LYF give you insights into the characters and the various relationships in this novel. She explicitly stated that XY has psychological barriers due to her childhood and her choices came from these barriers. If you look at the love triangle from that perspective, it’s very clear, IMO, who she truly loves.
The Love Bugs is not the accurate name; the actual translation is The Lovers Bugs. Lovers – it’s in the name as to the nature of the love/connection between the two hosts. If it was just Love Bugs then you could argue that it could be friendship love or familial love etc. In the novel, the part where the Lovers Bugs were explained stated: “Lovers Bugs, as the name suggests, is a pair of female and male bugs….For the Lovers Bugs to be successfully planted it needs a pair of willing lovers…once planted they either live together with one-heart or die together if they are no longer one-hearted.” I don’t think the author can make it any more explicit. XL was able to transfer the bugs from CX because it was not properly planted as CX wasn’t willing. I suppose you could argue that we can’t rule out that if he had been willing, then siblings love would be enough, but I think with all the other information, you’ll just being pedantic :-).
Your issues with Jing are also the same reason why I’m not fond of him and the XY/Jing pairing. That and I think that Jing is too passive and helpless. His lack of self-respect, combined with the helplessness and foolishness in the name of love is very off-putting to me. I know that some viewers find his devotion to XY to the point that he couldn’t live without her to be touching. I just find it appalling and shows he just lacks strength of character – neither CX nor XL would have done what he did. And that’s because unlike the other two, Jing had made XY the centre of his universe. Not attractive to me at all. I think we no-nonsense people see this as unhealthy rather than romantic :-). And yes, he’s willing to be irresponsible and selfish because of his “love” for XY. I just can’t respect such a person.
I just realised that I may have given away a huge spoiler in my last comment. I’m so sorry. I don’t think there’s a way to edit comments here.I hope you can accept my sincere apology if I’d spoiled things for you due to my carelessness.
Hi @Cali, spoilers never bother me, so no problems!
I found the MDL threads where people are putting up links to leaked S2 scripts!!! Tempting but I don’t have time to read so much.
I never really explored MDL but the discussions there, over Lost You Forever is tremendously big, long and many. The community there can be challenging as well as fun. It depends on which threads one finds oneself reading!