I’m leaving a post here so that I’ll not miss anyone’s comment!

EPISODES 37 AND 38
Oh my, I’ve reached the penultimate episode and am still all chuffed.

I have not figured out the strategy that enabled escape while throwing suspicion on others, but I guess, I may not care. Or if I really need to have it figured out, I’ll go read it up somewhere.

Back to rewatch Episodes 24 onwards that laid the path to the end of Season 1.

The reason we are still engrossed is because the story is so well established.

The logic of the story, the characters, their histories, wounds and aspirations then energises and pushes forward each development.

No spare fat or meat on these bones eh?

Fascinating that XY talks about human powerlessness in the face of the big two – birth and death. She argues from there to the futility of trying to change anything or strive for what we want in life. If it is not given to us why upset ourselves when we are ultimately powerless?

CX is more pragmatic and shares his philosophy which is – essentially – God helps those who help themselves!

I love that this drama dips in and out of the big questions in life and wraps those questions around the real experiences and emotional histories of our lead characters.

Thanks @Kate,
Wow, what a great range she has. The melody has big jumps from low to high notes but she carried it off well.

I felt that the dress’ skirt was too heavy. A more pared down dress would have looked better and been easier to walk in.

I do like most of the songs in this OST album. I hope that Season 2 adds on happier sounding ones!!!

@GB – look at this… https://koalasplayground.com/2023/08/21/c-ent-melon-has-lost-you-forever-part-2-airdropping-tomorrow-on-august-22nd-to-coincide-with-chinese-valentines-day/

It is POSSIBLE that there will be a surprise airing date of Season 2 – not next year but this year to coincide with Chinese Valentine’s Day!

We’ll have to wait and see…

Hi @GB,

I have also written some ad hoc thoughts about Episodes 37 and 39 in this thread – including some responses to points you raised.

I’ll come back and look at yours later but I am making sure you saw my posts too. xx

@Kate, Oh yes, I read your posts, but didn’t remember that I hadn’t responded to them. I’ll come back and do that a bit later. I’m going out for an hour or so and then it’ll be time for dinner. 🙂 See/Read you later!

@Kate

Ep 38 – Responding to your point above… Was the suspicion thrown by casting doubt on the assertions of the 5th Prince?

I wonder if that was all. I thought besides the words that were said, the fact that XY shot across to the palace grounds, the last arrow, that with CX’s power became multiple the arrows, also was a message of sorts but I couldn’t figure out what. Maybe a sign that CX and XY were the ones being victimised and were not the perpetrators?

I found it funny that XL was there to do his paid ‘job’ but couldn’t, because of XY’s and CX’s strategy of attack and defence by running back and forth so much, that XL couldn’t be sure to hit the right person.

He laughed that the pupil had outshone the master and gave it up. I’d like to suggest to XL that he pays back what the 5th Uncle paid him and forget about completing the ‘job’.

I want to give an award to the people who choreographed that fight and run scene. It was another ‘dance’ of sorts. I did wonder why only the archers were attacking and that the swordsmen were mostly standing still or moving warily instead of engaging CX and his bodyguard. They must have had much superior spirit power and could blast the lot of them without touching them. I need to watch that scene again.

That whole exercise was a bit weird. So they just basically attacked and defended their way out of that famous walk between the high walls, to/from the palace, and the soldiers didn’t pursue to kill them? I though the order given was that they or CX was not to leave the place alive. (Total failure for uncles, then!)

What were FFB’s motives and goals?

He was simply at work LOL. When he gets paid, he’ll do a job. No nicer feelings about how XY will feel about CX being killed. Her heartache then will really affect XL big time LOL.

(To be continued…)

@Kate,

The reason we are still engrossed is because the story is so well established.

The logic of the story, the characters, their histories, wounds and aspirations then energises and pushes forward each development.

No spare fat or meat on these bones eh?

Yes, indeed. This is a wonderfully well written and edited piece of work. The unnecessary fluff has been either never added or completely removed. It’s so rare that we get a light and funny scene that I end up laughing too loudly.

Fascinating that XY talks about human powerlessness in the face of the big two – birth and death. She argues from there to the futility of trying to change anything or strive for what we want in life. If it is not given to us why upset ourselves when we are ultimately powerless?

CX is more pragmatic and shares his philosophy which is – essentially – God helps those who help themselves!

I love that this drama dips in and out of the big questions in life and wraps those questions around the real experiences and emotional histories of our lead characters.

Yes, amidst the fantasy and the supernatural, we have a most realistic drama of living life the best way we can, and Show does such a good job bringing forth its realistic philosophy in the characters. This is what good writing is supposed to do.

I like how you’ve summarised CX’s pragmatic approach LOL. I think of it as, since we don’t have control over the beginning and the end, let’s work on the in between!!

@Kate, ooooh yes, Tan Jian Ci as FBB the archer… just too mersmerising. I sit entranced when he appears in his black hood, bow in hand.

Another quotation – the translation slightly off again:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25180205

Life is full of encounters and partings one after another, and lethe and starts again and again. While, there are always some things which will leave an imprint once occur, and a person who can not be forgetten once met. Just for that bit of warmth, his companionship and dead set that might be changed in any time, this encounter in Qingshui town has changed the fate of all, and even the fate of the Wild. Love is a glass of poisonous wine, which is sweet enough to make the lovers go into ecstasies. But when it goes into the heart and lung, it turns into lovesickness that can not be cured easily. Lovesickness is grieved, which can be comforted only by sweetheart’s smile and accompanying, without which, the love can only be carved on the bones of the lovers, who will miss each other till their death.

生命是一场又一场的相遇和别离，是一次又一次的遗忘和开始，可总有些事，一旦发生，就留下印迹；总有个人，一旦来过，就无法忘记。这一场清水镇的相遇改变了所有人的命运，甚至改变了整个大荒的命运。只为贪图那一点温暖、一点陪伴，一点不知道什么时候会消散的死心塌地。相思是一杯有毒的美酒，入喉甘美，销魂蚀骨，直到入心入肺，便再也无药可解，毒发时撕心裂肺，只有心上人的笑容可解，陪伴可解，若是不得，便只余刻骨相思，至死不休。

@Kate
EPISODE 38

Re the final shot of the arrow by XY. I didn’t understand that either – it was a signal but how it worked I had no idea. I think the story telling was slightly amiss there…
I also agree re the choreography of that fight. It was a visual treat.

The following words are spoken at the end of CX and XY’s successful exit from the palace grounds after the ambush. These comments refer to how they escaped alive rather than what they said in court. That’s why I was curious about what it was that XY and CX had come up with that won approval.

Fenglong and Jing have been eavesdropping on the meeting between King Grandpa and CX/XY and hears them allowed to leave. Fenglong notes that XY looks so easy going but she’s really sharp. He guesses that her future husband has to lie low to avoid fights. CX and XY had passed a test that day but Jing knows it will be hard for them to leave (alive). And I’m sure King Grandpa knew it too but he wants to play chess with Jing… a game of strategy.

At the end of the long walk fraught with arrows and swordsmen, XY with CX’s help, rains down arrows on the guards in the King’s courtyard, and this brings a whole bunch of Uncle’s men into the court to ‘protect’ the King from assassins. Jing and Fenglong leave but King does not even look up from the chess game. He says to himself approvingly : “Not bad, using someone’s strength against himself.”

(My guess is that everything Grandpa had done with regards to XY and CX had been a long, far-sighted plan, and a test. Probably from childhood, CX may have been set apart as the alternative to his other sons and grandsons, and kept away for his protection. Grandpa probably knew that CX was weaker and was bullied by his peers… and how XY used to fight on his behalf. Grandpa had been observing for centuries as he allowed trials to come to CX, and added trials and obstacles himself. When CX finally returned to his court and said plainly that he wanted Xiyan Mountain, Grandpa’s tests continued apace as he watched and waited to see what CX and XY would do.)

When Fenglong and Jing hear that CX and XY got out safely, Jing says : “So smart. She managed to escape from 5th King’s trap and cause him some trouble.”
Fenglong : “True. CX is so impressive. He created something out of nothing and planted evidence to frame the culprit with a crafty escape plan.”

When Fenglong and Jing meet up with CX and XY outside the palace walls, they sit for a celebration with water.
Fenglong : “Let me toast you with water too. Your escape plan deserves a nice pot of wine….”
CX : “All thanks to the person who came up with the sneaky plan.”
Fenglong is amazed that it was XY’s plan.

I believe that when the arrows rained down in the King’s courtyard, they broke through a protective force field and turned into harmless images of arrows that disappeared upon contact with the guards.

This is just my conjecture:
The strength of 5th Uncle was likely framing others and setting assassins upon them. CX and XY had indicated that they had escaped safely by the harmless arrows and pointed backwards to the court as the source of the assassination attempt. If they had wanted to kill the King, they could have done so. Instead they framed 5th Uncle who had remained in court to ‘protect’ his father.

As for the escape itself, XY must have planned it with CX on their trip together to the palace. She was his human shield against arrows and swords. The guards/soldiers/assassins were ordered to kill CX but they could not harm XY. She constantly placed herself in front of and behind CX in endless movement so that the archers, and especially FFB could not kill him.

(Continued…)
EPISODE 39

SPOILERS

EXPANSION OF THOUGHTS ON GRANDDAD (My guesses)
I mentioned this already but I thought to go a bit more into King Granddad of Xiyan. I’ve complained about how he abdicated his responsibilities as grandparent to CX and XY, appearing to do nothing for them. It’s no wonder that XY returned to see him with a resentful attitude. However, the doing nothing was probably a ruse. Sending the children away to grow up with varied experiences, observing them from a distance and waiting, was doing something. Perhaps the separation of XY from CX was also desirable because CX would depend too much on XY if they were always together.

However, I’m guessing with the last episodes of Season 1, and from what Grandpa says before he crowns CX, that we get to see what he’s been about. Granddad said that he’d been grooming or preparing someone to take over the throne. I’m considering that this preparation began when CX was a child (400 years earlier?)

The novel or S2 may give more info but this is my guess. Granddad has lost a good son, CX’s dad in war (but it was treachery that caused the death) and CX’s mother decides to accuse the traitors and kill herself. That means that CX would be in danger always as well. He admits that his life was never completely serene since the day his mother died. (Poor CX).

On pretext of giving Haoling a hostage, CX is sent away, more likely for his safety. For one thing, XY is also sent away to keep her safe and to have her cultivate her powers, so there’s no one to watch over CX. In Haoling he is taught how to be a king by XY’s father.

The reason it does not make sense for CX to be a hostage is that Haoling was not in confrontation with Xiyan, and Xiyan did not have to appease Haoling. In the case of Chenrong Kingdom, Xiyan had conquered Chenrong and so wanted royal princess Xin Yue and her mother to be hostages in Xiyan, to keep Chenrong from misbehaving. But there was no apparent reason for CX to be a hostage in Haoling.

Granddad never summoned CX or showed that he wanted CX to come to him, partly to keep him safe and partly to test his mettle. If CX did not appear to be a favourite, then the Uncles had less reason to kill him sooner. If CX really wanted to be with his Granddad, then he had to find his own way to gain admittance. XY gave him the opportunity to make contact with Granddad again. In the same way, Granddad refused to let CX come to see him, deliberately distancing himself from him, to play a trick on his sons.

The final test was whether CX with XY’s help, could argue their case against suspicions leveled at him, and get out alive from the palace. Granddad had also always known about the secret army, and was likely pleased that CX had thought to prepare to defend himself or attack if need be. It seems that Granddad wouldn’t even have minded a coup, as it was something he would have done himself. But he found that CX was kinder.

CX had the opportunity to run away when all seemed to be against him, or to use his army to force a coup, but he chose to stand firm as was his right, to be included in the ceremony. He expected to die, that’s why he sent XY away (unsuccessfully!) but he was prepared to do what was fitting as a prince instead of turning on his own family.

Surprisingly, Granddad’s vision and desire for a united Dahuang, in peace and with more equal opportunities for all, was also something CX highlighted when he said that all clans were citizens of Xiyan. They should look beyond Xiyan families to other clans as their own people. This resonated with Granddad’s ideals.

I wanted to give Granddad a standing ovation when he abdicated and chose the King who would carry out his visions. My favourite scene in the end, was of XY popping up next to Granddad in soldier’s outfit, and telling him frankly that she’d intended to kill 5th Uncle if he had been chosen as new King. LOL. Granddad remains unfazed by everything that should set a person cringing or horrified.

I liked that Granddad never held XY’s rudeness, frankness and resentfulness against her. Perhaps he saw more of himself in his Haoling grand-daughter than he’d seen in his Xiyan sons.

I liked his end conversation with XY, explaining why he would not go back to Xiyan so soon and what he’d do depending on the situation. He sounded like a perfectly reasonable person, and would have been a fun granddad under different circumstances. In the end, I felt sorry for the old man, who could not be just a granddad, but who had to rule for centuries, waiting for the one who deserved the crown.

EPISODE 39 CX in ‘XL MODE’

We see CX in a strong parallel with XL speaking with XY about a possible marriage to Fenglong. That scene again is very powerful. Why do the scenes with Jing not speak to me similarly? We know the answer,

CX has walked his path and lost his opportunity, it seems, in all of this pressure cooker, to connect openly with the one he loves. Could he have done this, within that story, in a way that was not creepy I wonder? CX and XY are first cousins.

XY has never seen him romantically. There is a scene which parallels the scene where XY and XL walk away from one another in slow motion with (if I remember right, XL’s theme song in the background). Here after the conversation where CX hides his feelings and turns his face away from XY, they part.

XY walks away, again in slow motion. This time it is CX’s theme song playing in the background and a line from the lyrics stands out:

‘You come and go without noticing.’

Powerful stuff again.

Confirming for me that from our viewer perspective – at the moment at least – the impact of the show is such that XL and CX are the two prominent leads.

Interestingly, in reality Tan Jianci’s Xiang Liu is a ‘special main lead’ and has broken records and attained great prominence and popularity as a special lead character. His character is normally less prominent than the main leads (XY, CX, Jing).

p.ps Is ‘You come and go without noticing’ also an expression of a key theme of Tong Hua’s … people miss one another and what is really going on with the other and who the other actually is!

This applies even to people who are openly devoted to one another as are CX and XY.

Something about ultimate existential aloneness.

@Kate
Thank you for bringing up the key theme for Tong Hua. It’s certainly a melancholy thought, to be so close and yet to miss the truth of the situation that is unfolding before one’s eyes.

While we may deplore XY’s being blind to the quality of devotion of CX and XL, perhaps it is better that she does not know, just in case the burden of it changes her attitude towards them and drives her away.

This is a link to the Dramapanda wrap-up interview (posted on 21st August 2023) with the 6 main characters.

https://dramapanda.com/2023/08/lost-you-forever-stars-spill-the-tea-after-the-finale.html

The remote/online ‘party’ interview is in Chinese but I believe the summary of what they say is in the blog.

This leads into Weibo (all in Chinese) with lots to see and read… a veritable rabbithole!

https://scontent.flhr2-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369864352_607120061575285_3069420556462542338_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=vX0JJGfC5eoAX_mRIZ2&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-4.fna&oh=00_AfBfwfH_aAki5sVy0fOgIu0oLMHrH1-MTsa8AwRhtJTAXg&oe=64ED0C75

A scene that conveys so much!

@Kate, what a beautifully taken cut of a most evocative moment. Thank you! As the blog post said, how could XY not know how XL/FFB felt about her at that moment. She didn’t flinch or move away but looked him straight in the eye. As usual, I wondered if she was playing her game of dare. She told him when he proposed running away, that she was bolder than even him. We see how challenged him. In this cut, is she also challenging him to dare to declare how he really feels?

As for Fur Ball Chubby LOL. It took me ages to figure out that the eagle and the Fur Ball were one and the same!! Loved how Fur Ball pooped on XY when she was being disrespectful (he gives as good as he gets) and how he tapped his foot impatiently when he wanted to take XY away from Clam. Those were odd moments of cute hilarity.

@GB – Yes, I think you are spot on in your response to the picture with XY as the one who dares XL.

They have this wonderful push-pull… we want more of course!

[We see that also in her larkyy behaviour in the underground casino… FFB is the one being cautious.]

WHAT IS XIO YAO AWARE OF?

Reflecting on your points, I am taken back to the games played by XY in her male form. The pretence, the fawning, the avoidance of discussion.

So, when she gets to an uncomfortable crossroads with CX she goes into chirpy younger MeiMei mode and, as you say, walks away without checking in with him. Just as she has walked away in the past without checking in with XL and at points with Jing too!

Yes, XY as having a big blind spot when it comes to XL’s gifts to her and role in her life. I can buy that argument too. Otherwise, she is grossly ungrateful towards him – unless, again, she is playing a role for the sake of the status quo.

Hi again @GB,

I’m posting again while I can remember what I wanted to say. I think I put it better in the original post but…

Firstly, I liked the way you picked up on XY as the one who challenges and dares XL – sometimes he counter-dares, sometimes he walks away to protect his intentions and his heart. The playboy aspect of XL should be able to brazen it out but is countered by the deeper seam which is searching for people to love and the vocation to stand with the army of Chenrong.

Secondly, in your next post, I could see so many parallels with XY’s behaviours towards CX and all the leading men in her life. She adopts this chirpy, girlish manner at times and AVOIDS all the issues!! Just as she adopted various strategies to avoid difficulty or emotional challenge when she lived in Qingshui Town as a man.

Sometimes the guys play along or are playing the same game and sometimes they see through it and sometimes they challenge or are amused by it.

So the XY defence could be said to be avoidance of potential conflict or closeness.

She’ll dare her way in and out of risky intimacy.

Fenglong is perfect for avoiding further hurt.

On the other hand, we see costly loyalty in the relationship with CX where there isn’t – she hopes – the same risk of being abandoned by her brother.

Understanding who XY is with the various men and the way they respond to her and what they want to do on her behalf … is key isn’t it?

@Kate, what interesting insight into the parallel behaviours of avoidance that XY adopts in her different persona. This is a good way in which to reframe her actions and choices. I’ll have to think about this some more.

I agree that understanding who XY is with each of the men and their responses is key. I’m glad we have many months to tease this out. I’ll need to pace myself.

I was just rewatching the earlier episodes 25, 26, 27 and stopped making notes for a while. I found that I missed pretty overt signs of CX’s jealousy that he manages to hide quite well. I found myself getting impatient with Jing, while at the same time commiserating with his predicament.

Then I found this nice edit of the show which highlights our fave XL/FFB with XY. The edit made their times together look both so fraught and yet so romantic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSS3_gCFlXY

🙂

Heheheh @Kate, here’s another one of those edits with more scenes included and an ending that hints at being naughty LOL. The wonders and illusions one can create with creative edits!!! 🤣🧐🤪😊😇

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTYDvBEzAwA

Yes, such a pity XL can’t be the Main, main lead. However, he’s an extra-extra special male lead? LOL.

and… yes… the Clam!!

Here’s a pretty well done review and I’m impressed with the reviewer’s ability to pronounce the names close to the right sound although maybe without the tone. Somehow the scenes of Season 2 must already be out because there are scenes in this review that we have not seen yet!

@GB – posted above but here again in case you missed it.

This made me giggle – apparently, there were problems with tickling and TJC being able to speak his lines when fanged!

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1633942583683652

Here’s an analysis in Chinese (with English subs) on the love of XL for XY. I’m not sure I agree with everything she says. But perhaps because she knows the language, her interpretation of some things has an added nuance that we didn’t get with the English subs. She gives some extra food for thought.

@GB,

Thank you for further thoughts. My comments building on yours:

DENG WEI AS JING

ON DW in that role. When you watch Deng Wei on ‘Hello Saturday’ – as we both have done – he does seem to be quite similar to the character he is playing. He is shy and uncertain and looks to YZ for encouragement. In the BTS of their, excellent, kiss scene, it was YZ calling the shots. Mind you, she has helped all the guys, and the actor playing CX has acknowledged the level of help she has given him in this show.

IF we had someone of more experience playing against type, there might be more creative crackle.

I think this, too, is down to the very strong performances of all the other leads … even our young Fenglong is very vigorously portrayed by a callow youth of an actor! LOL

If Jing was being played as he is, with a more pastel palette of people – his nuanced approach would sing out more.

Thankfully, loads of people really like Jing – so he will do well out of this show.

Yes, the novel was better, apparently (must check) for Jing. If he is, arguably, the most interiorised character, he needed more help in the screen writing. But as YS it worked for me!

XL – BAD LAD

Let’s explore this further. How bad is XL precisely? I need this to let go of him. LOL

@Kate, I have just re-watched the beginning of Episode 30 and I want to give Jing an earful or even box his ears LOL. I have to deal with XL later, but go into his character at least once or more than once, I certainly shall.

I will leave a comment on Jing in the correct thread. I’m also mindful that we have 1 thread as yet unpopulated… but sometimes I find I have little to say. I guess I’ll post something and in response to other posts, more may crop up. That’s how it works best with me. I find other insights get me going further on new and interesting paths, while on my own, my path peters out LOL.

I’ll hover over more than one thread usually. Will read what Wiki has on XL after I rant about Jing.

USEFUL BACGROUND

Koala’s intro to ‘Lost You Forever’ usefully situates our characters against a backdrop of Chinese mythology:

https://koalasplayground.com/2014/02/18/lost-you-forever-chapter-1-life-is-short-like-a-temporary-stay/

Having read the Wiki piece on Xiang Liu – one section points forward to a segment near the end of the novel.

So Tong Hua is dipping directly into Chinese Mythology. She is at the same time creating an entirely different Xiang Liu due to the various humanising influences:

General H
Loyalty to the Chenrong Army – training them, suffering with them and so on
FFB encounter
Unconditional love of Mum and grief for her
Encounter with XY who mirrors XL’s early experiences and helps him.

This makes for a rich character who is in many ways unknowable for the audience because we don’t know what it is like to be a Nine-Headed Demon!

His all too human behaviours at various points – hit home, and make a bigger impact through the lens of knowing something of his background and his popular reputation as a scary killer.

We also watch him with some uncertainty – his essence and human aspects make him unpredictable.

To be continued as I read and reflect further.

(Continued…)
The Reviewer’s interpretation of XY’s refusal to get any mouth-to-mouth resuscitation (kiss, for short) from XL, was that implicit in what she said about not wanting him to enter her dreams, is that he had the ability to do so. (That was my interpretation too.) In other words, she admitted that if she allowed herself the indulgence of the kiss, she could fall in love with him. The Reviewer says she did not want to fall for XL who was hostile, because she would ‘die badly’ LOL. I believe she means that XY wanted to avoid having a hard time in the relationship and so avoided getting overly intimate with XL in the romantic sense. XL heard the meaning of her words … the part about him not being the type who should ever enter a girl’s dreams and took it the wrong way. He got angry.

However hearing that she’d taken a lot of trouble to make the poison for him, he is appeased. He sees that she had still thought of him, may have missed him, and she had bothered about him.

However when XY and XL had bought weapons and she got him to pay for her bow to spite Jing, he was really angry. So she took the trouble to make for XL, a delicacy in the shape of a beautiful Koi pond, full of poison, to apologise (and make sure she could still have him as her archery master).

The Reviewer says that he sensed her frustration when he remained cold towards her and so ate up the poison, however I did not see signs of her frustration so I question this. I felt that he was quite taken with the Koi Pond which he knew was definitely created only for him.

While she proudly asserts that she’s the only person in the world who can make poison so delicious (and good to look at), he counters that he’s the only person in the world who can appreciate her culinary skills. Yes, theirs is one of those whose matches which might have been made in heaven, except … (we can fill in the blanks)

To XY, FFB/XL was more like a buddy or confidant. They’d literally slept together when she was a man and even when she was a woman. She’d been playful with him, drawing on his face. She’d healed him whenever he needed her blood. In the big Shell, it was like their home where XL would go out to run errands and return to the Shell to rest. (I sort of question this too, because it sounded like he only came to see her about once a month after the first few times. Once she was able to start healing, he only returned at the full moon).

Because she was unconscious, he did not put on his cold exterior but revealed his tenderness when he cared for her. However he was respectful and never took advantage of her.

On full moon nights, when the demon power is strongest, he used the essence and blood of his heart to prolong her life and heal her wounds.

I wonder if the end of this analysis included something from S2 or from the novel because the Reviewer mentions XY’s suicide and a war that we have not yet seen. However the point is that XL did not want XY to know what he did for her because she would be burdened by how he had saved her life, and this would be complicated for her, if CX and Chenrong came to blows again.

The Reviewer mentions that XY would voluntarily choose to die / commit suicide, and that XL would stop it. His love is demonstrated by his actions but will not be confessed.
= = =
Well that’s it for this particular analysis. There are more, but I’m not deliberately watching them. I did do a quick read of the Wiki article on Xiang Liu in mythology… will see if I’ve time to read more.

Hi @GB – thank you for your careful review of the review. I can’t argue with your main points. Yes, the red and the reviewer ‘reaching’ could well be true in view of other moments where FFB wears red and so on.

I did like that idea, nevertheless. But it is probably romanticising that scene over much.

I read the article – thank you for finding that. Clearly, our XL is a greatly softened version of the stinky Xiang Liu who smells poisonous and ravages the countryside and animal life around him. Our XL has a pet called Furball/Chubby for a start! We do see at least one scene where flowers wither as XL passes by… but this is an occasional reveal rather than an on-going devastation caused by XL’s presence.

So Tong Hua has some fun with the Xiang Liu ideas and builds in fun and tender elements. This will all add extra dimensions for those who have grown up with these legends and, as you say, shortcut the story telling process.

We first meet XL by horrific reputation don’t we? That backdrop is so useful for Tong Hua then to depict this wonderfully varied and interesting character. What will XL actually be like when push comes to shove. Of course, XY is finding that out as she goes along. LOL

Tencent have produced a special edit of XL-XY scenes from Episodes 1 to 20.

I am posting it here because it will be a useful retrospective when we have time (it is 2 hours 20 minutes).

I suspect they may do the same again with later episodes.

This is an unusual move methinks and reflects enormous audience demand!

@GB – I hope you can get it! Bummer if you can’t.

We could have an annual re-watch just off this edit… hahahah.

@Kate, continuing from above, here’s another very nice edit. I like how the creator, ‘bulletproofcouch’ brought together all those scenes especially their hands. However there was one cut that was wrong. Can you tell which one? 🧐🤔😆

Oh thank you @GB – will watch this evening!

I wanted to say too that Tencent dropping spoilers seems to be a pattern. I am watching The Legend of Zhuohua. The ‘teasers’ for upcoming episodes on WeTV contain massive plot spoilers. If you add up the opening and closing credits and watch the ‘teasers’ – you might as well just a knit a jumper instead!

Hi @Kate, the error in the video was in the first one at Timestamp 1:55. The one carrying XY was not XL but Jing. I had to replay to doublecheck, because the only time I recall her being princess carried by XL was when she was unconscious. But in that cut, she was awake and looking at the one carrying her.

Tan Jian Ci will probably get more roles now and more endorsements as well. He’s been busy since 2014, although I saw that he started as early as 2007. He’s also got more shows coming up, airing dates to be confirmed.

I found this video by chance that lists his dramas that have been released, will be aired later, and even those rumoured to be in the works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBRnaE_IPI

If we cannot get enough of him, we might try ‘Under the Skin’ or some contemporary drama with him in it for a change!

Here’s the triple threat of Tan Jian Ci in action.

He sings, dances and acts and he has got stage presence.

Watching triple threat TJC is is so clear why he made such a wonderful job of embodying XY and FFB – the sheer physicality of the XL role really suited TJC’s skills!

I liked the other male singer’s voice btw… may follow up.

Ok a few more questions…

Now that CX is King, and in a more powerful position, how will that affect his aspirations for and towards XY?

What, ultimately, is the outcome of the Feng Long marriage proposal?

Will Jing be released from all the entrapment of the Tushan family and want to pursue XY again?

How precisely does the tv show differ from the novel when it comes to the ending?

My dear @Kate,
You raise good questions. Short of reading the novel, I will make my random guesses, because now you’ve got me asking those questions too!

Now that CX is King, and in a more powerful position, how will that affect his aspirations for and towards XY?
What, ultimately, is the outcome of the Feng Long marriage proposal?

I believe that the promise in marriage with an engagement is pretty binding since the families are now already involved. The reason for the union does not disappear even after CFX becomes king. The marriage will strengthen the bonds between the Xiyan – Haoling and Central Plains families. The political marriages are supposed to seal the deal of friendly relations and bring clans/parties over to one’s side for the long term, to establish peace.

CX cannot have any ‘proper’ romantic aspirations towards XY now. Either the engagement is cancelled or the wedding takes place. In the former case, CX’s position weakens. In the latter, XY cannot remain beside CX in the same way.

Fenglong may or may not be a more ‘open’ sort of guy. He may not mind if his wife continues to be confidante to his close associate who’s her cousin, but he’ll still expect his wife to be home and serving him.

Will Jing be released from all the entrapment of the Tushan family and want to pursue XY again?

I really wish lovers in dramas knew when to let go. I guess viewers want the all or nothing boyfriend. The one who gives all to only one great love, and who will never be unfaithful. But in real life, we need to make the best of a bad situation, find joy even in what is not preferred and move on. Unfortunately, not so in this narrow drama world. Jing will be chaffing at his unwanted position and marriage. Once he finds out it was an entrapment, all the more he will want to break out. Since his family deceived him, he may not care that he breaks the rules and ruins the family’s reputation.

How precisely does the tv show differ from the novel when it comes to the ending?

I wish I knew. We only have an actor’s word for it that the ending is not the same as the book’s ending. If that’s true, then maybe it’ll be an ending I could get behind, because I didn’t like the spoiler I read of the book’s ending. 😑😒😣😄

@GB – I’m interested in your response to ‘Under the Skin’ – makes sense. But not for now.

I’m up for checking out his new shows as they air. We really need a happier romance for him!!

@GB,

Re your responses to my questions – I am slightly wrong-footed by spoilers I have seen. They don’t give me the whole picture but they hint at possible developments.

Re CX – unlike XL – he seems to be treading a more Shakespearian path – by that I mean, the virtuous man with the fatal weakness. I think things will get sticky with him because of all of this repressed passion combined with power and XY’s ability to avoid the issue. Even if I/we hadn’t seen spoilers… I don’t think the drama would waste the opportunity to complicate things drawing on his repressed passion. All those longing looks…

Re Jing – agreed. That is going to be interesting!!

Re the ending… given TH’s style … I am not expecting it to be sunny but I hope we will find it satisfying! If not, the LYF recovery therapist needs to be BOOKED!

LOL – yes a good therapist booked in anticipation, and some chocolate perhaps…

Yes!! I’ll take some dark milk chocolate in that case! Almost as healthy!

EPISODE 37
(XY and XL Underwater Continued… and the ‘Date’ on the Seashore)

XY looks up from under her lashes to check on whether XL notices that she bluffed about being in pain. XL thinks a while and realises that he didn’t feel any pain, therefore he knows she tricked him. He lets go of her arm but now she grabs him quickly, before he takes off again LOL.

XY speaks without knowing the cost that XL had paid. She does not know that he lost one life.

XY : “You have nine lives. You saved me once, and I became like you, free to go anywhere. If I die and you save me again, then do I become like you …?”
XL grabs her by the neck (as well he should, I guess) and threatens : “If you die again, I’ll chop you into 9 pieces, Just enough for one bite per head.”
XY : “Be gentle. You worked hard to save me. What if I really get killed by you? Would you bear it?” (She struggles a bit but isn’t actually scared).

He continues to stare at her but does not remove his grip on her neck.
XY : “I mean what if you consume too much heart blood? Would you bear it?”
XL : “Do you want me to prove it to you now?” He’s about to bite her neck but she pushes him away.
XY : “I know that you can bear it. No matter how much heart blood you consume, you can always replenish it, right?”

(She uses the same tactic with CX. She appeases the male ego by complimenting them on their strength or abilities. They always get taken in my her, LOL. She sounds so sincere!)

She smiles sweetly at him. He seems appeased enough so that they go about companionably underwater.

XL is surprised that XY recognises the merfolk’s courting song. Realising that he does not know how much of himself he’d revealed to her when she had been unconscious in Clam, she does not tell him how she knows. LOL, against XL’s advice, she goes to see what’s going on in the giant shell where the mercouple are and comes back embarrassed.

XL teases : “I didn’t expect you to have this kind of foible, like spying on a couple’s private matters.”
XY : “XL, you did that intentionally!”
XL : “Am I a villain now?” (LOL. He’s still on the ‘not a villain’ trip!)

On shore XY gives him the poison that she’d prepared for him. (I believe he takes her poisons as some kind of health tonic! It’s also her way of making up to him for any offence she may have caused. I’m intrigued by how much poisons she must carry about her person at any odd time!!!)

XY speaks of poison like it’s a condiment : “It has a strong bouquet, and goes well with seafood.”
He smells the fish she’s grilling and recognises the scent of Yuhong grass, and says it’s not poisonous.
XY : It’s not very poisonous but tastes good. You like drinking don’t you? Put this in wine. Even if it’s bad wine, it will taste good. I made it especially for you.” (Those are magic words to him… anything she does specially for him pleases him.)

She asks if he remembers that this is the 2nd time she’s grilled fish for him. The first time as Wen Xiao Liu she’d thought the world so big and she had nowhere to go.
XY : “But now I do have a home, and have someone waiting for me. But I just want to wander for a lifetime.” (Yeah the irony of it… grass being greener etc. When we get what we might have longed for, we no longer want it!!!)

XL observes dryly : “Just 1 Tushan Jing can make you so disheartened.” His solution: he offers to kill his sister and nephew LOL, but only as long as she pays him, of course!
XY wrinkles her nose at him : “What a bad idea.”
XL : “Do you have any other good ideas?” She is silent.

She asks about the islands and land beyond the sea. XL says there are scattered islands: some barren and others beautiful. She wants to wander far afield to see them but XL does not want to accompany her. She counters that she had no thought of traveling for fun with someone annoying.

We find them in an unexpected domestic scene where she cooks for him and seasons the food. He even seasons the drink that he has in the shell with poison and tries it.

XY returns to being fatalistic : “XL, do you ever feel like these times (ie these peaceful times when they are friends and relatively happy) are borrowed, and feel uncertain of tomorrow?” He does not respond as they look at the sea before them and the vast sky dotted with stars, sitting companionably together.

@GB –

THE UNDERWATER DATE

Fabulous! I lOVE this account of the underwater date. So well related and reflected upon.

XY really handles XL with expertise – and as you highlight this is a skill she uses with CX also.

I love the way you describe the culinary provision in their relationship! It’s a hoot and it also so sweet. He loves that she is doing this specially for him. SIGH

I DO DO DO wish she knew the full extent of XL’s commitment to her.

I can’t help but imagine this scene with a more fully informed XY.

On the other hand, XY is still capable of being ‘hard-hearted’ so we don’t know what precisely her behaviour would look like. She might even become more avoidant…

I am glad too you underlined the significance of her willingness to be air-kissed this time. Absolutely. So the ‘too terrifying’ prospect was just her version of pushing XL away when they had the heart to heart previously.

I wish they did kiss… although that would be XY using XL in a moment of pain and not be a good thing for either of them.

I guess, too, the restraint of XL underlines his choice in all this and dignifies his actions on her behalf.

He is not a lothario – even as FFB he is restrained with XY. His love for her is the purest in many ways. A deep irony. The demon who loves purely. I know she has been his ‘person’ and blood-supplier… I wonder though whether those necessities have been far far subsumed by his faithful love for her.

We see that, in fact, in the famous reveal scene where FFB comes to her bedchamber. When she faints he does not try to heal himself further.

I HOPE XL knows that she cares for him beyond her flippancy.

THE XL XY RELATIONSHIP ARC

I also really like the way you have summarised XY with XL doing wifey, date-like, domestic things.

We come back to the decision of Tong Hua and the screenwriter team to make more of XL in the show… and the result is that we as viewers are naturally so much more invested in the XL-XY couple…

It makes perfect sense that we see depicted this companionable and quirky life together. We know XL’s heart towards XY. We see XY pining for the potential she had with YS but not – at the moment – with the Jing the reduced.

No wonder we are frustrated by the story… when it would be so much more satisfying to see an outcome with XL if at all possible!

Thanks again @GB

XL – XY fIRST MEETING

Their first encounter by Pa Na Lor in one of the FB discussions. See the link for the scene:

https://www.facebook.com/plor1/videos/263834693117315/?idorvanity=807434947498079

‘After you enjoy binging the drama, I encourage you to rewatch it, and read the film cinematography and composition for visuals and symbolism dedicated to Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu’s story. It’s impeccable!

Did you catch that? Xiang Liu was the third person to be introduced, BUT the first to hear Xiao Yao’s love song.

And the editing and timing of this song fits so perfectly as foreshadow into the nature of thier relationship. Xiang Liu enters the frame when Xiao Yao starts the line “Why are there gatherings and partings in life?”’

And finallee…

We are in good company @GB! A royal who prefers this to the much loved ‘Eternal Love – Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms’.

[ source of information https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064535961651%5D

Princess Tengku Zatashah Binti Sultan Idris Shah of Malaysia shared on her Instagram:

“#LostYouForever S1 has ended.” This C-drama series is now my number 1 favorite C-drama. I’m so captivated by the story, with the incredible performances of Yang Zi, Deng Wei, Tan Jianci, Zhang Wanyi and Wang Hongyi. The 5 men have a fierce competition for Xiaoyao. If you’ve watched this series, you probably like me. I’m tingling between #TeamTushanJing and #TeamXiangLiu. However, I can’t wait for S2 and hope they’ll be released soon!

I highly recommend this series every episode is geeking me. And the beautiful OST makes me wanna listen again and again.

Who else watched and liked this movie? Drop a comment below’

Thanks for letting me know @Packmule3…Noted and understood!

I appreciate you being alert to these things, I don’t want to post contrary to the approach or feel of the blog.

Hi @pkml3, it’s good to know you do come by to read us now and then. You’re our sounding board and defence against trolls (of course I know you hardly let them come so far to bother us). I take it that when you are silent, all’s well. LOL.

Truth to tell, I’d be interested that any personages actually put it up in their social media if they liked a show I was watching. That they bothered would mean that the show hit them in the heart. It wouldn’t make me want to watch it more, but it’s a reminder that all of us are just people after all, public office aside.

On the other hand, if the person liking the Show is a critic and reviewer who knows what they are talking about, I’d be very interested to read them and might even want to check out a show they recommend. 🙂

@GB,

Thank you for your comments – much appreciated.

I agree it’s quite amusing the way a show like this – with its engrossing themes about life and love – is such a leveller!

I think that is what we are trying to tease out … the core themes and questions and the way they impact us – why we are so invested in the characters and the narrative, motivations and possible story outcomes.

I am away with work this week so won’t be around – I hope that takes some pressure off you.

Have a great week!

@GB – I am reassured that you are not being externally driven!

Thank you anyway for your dedication to cover the ground.

It continues to be very fruitful!

Hi @GB

Commenting during my lunch hour.

Another very enjoyable read. I never thought of a comparison between the two grilled fish episodes… very telling in terms of changes in the Xl-XY relationship!

I laugh now when I read your muttering asides about YS/Jing!!

It is easier for us as an audience to cope with the male XY, being played as he is by Yang Zi. Imagine if that role had been played by a male actor…

It is a good thing XL can see through the middle-aged man disguise. Would he have tolerated XY as a man through and through? Possibly, as a buddy and drinking partner (hahaha). But we will never know because XL knew from the outset, as XY sang to draw FeiFei to her, that this person was a woman.

When you talk about that scene when XY spills her guts, metaphorically, to the one person she had no expectations of – yes, that’s such a good point @GB – and talks about non-belonging etc – I am reminded of the scene when XL mutters to himself later – very bitterly – about XY’s dishonesty in talking about herself in this way when she was, in fact, a member of the Royal Family.

Do you remember where that scene comes? It is around the time either before or during the ceremony where XY goes public as the Princess of Haoling.

I really thought at that point that XL would wreak revenge!

Yes, I like your point about XL as the boundaried, responsible, realist. His FFB side pushes the envelope but is held in check. He doesn’t give more than he thinks he can and should.

XY running away to be with XL, leaving other admirers hurt and angry, is also, arguably, about her running away to be with an aspect of herself that she can only be with him.

We know the link between them is growing and also that she has a pre-existing link with him – most likely. She is – we think although unconfirmed- likely to be of human and demon origin. So she provides him with human warmth, fun, and care and he enhances her awareness of who she is.

(Continuing…)

…I like your point about XL as the boundaried, responsible, realist. His FFB side pushes the envelope but is held in check. He doesn’t give more than he thinks he can and should.

@Kate you mentioned before that XL always kept a respectful distance (when XY became a woman). He successfully put on the show of being a libertine without actually being one. He strikes me as particularly mature and unexpectedly others-centred.

I like how he’d been the first to dare her to abandon her role as princess to wander with him, and in Ep 37 we see her wishing to wander the world (probably with him) but he discourages her. Seeing that she’s in an upset frame of mind after meeting Jing at CX’s wedding, any decision she makes will be unwise. Once again XL does the responsible thing. He does not dare her to go, because he knows she’d take up the challenge at once. Instead he says a flat ‘No’ if she expects him to go with her.

It occurs to me that his rejection may have surprised her, since he had been the one to first broach the subject of wandering off together.

I like your thoughts that … blockquote>XY running away to be with XL, leaving other admirers hurt and angry, is also, arguably, about her running away to be with an aspect of herself that she can only be with him. I agree that XL brings out something extra in XY. Maybe a greater playfulness, more sarcasm and less filters to her thoughts. LOL.

…She is – we think although unconfirmed- likely to be of human and demon origin. So she provides him with human warmth, fun, and care and he enhances her awareness of who she is.

Good point and a pretty good exchange, I feel. As I said somewhere before, I really want that she gets more spirit power from the demon side of her heritage. I’d like to see her kick butt with flying hair like XL! 😂

Hello, i’ve been lurking for a month reading the discussions. I want to precise something. XY’s father is not a demon, but is a deity. He was just very late in being enlightened and achieving human form. He is a godly beast just like the ancestral nine-tailed fox of the Tushan clan. He is called demon because of his “cruelty”. He used any means necessary to achieve his objectives, like wiping out corrupted clans in Chengrong with the king’s aval. Because he was an outsider, he ended up taking all the blame.

@Kate, thanks for the FB link to articles/posts.

I read the first long post by Pa Na Lor taken from Koala’s Playground on XY’s love language. I can only judge from myself. If I truly fell in love at first sight (the contention is that XY fell for XL at first sight) with person B (Xian Liu), there is really no way that I can be happily also loving romantically person C (Jing) to the extent that I’d be heartbroken.

I would not be able to force myself to love C when my heart is already engaged by A. The article says that XY was pragmatic, pessimistic and sceptical and went with her brain instead of her heart, however the very phrase ‘fall in love’ means going into it with the heart. Even if I could put the heart aside and let the brain take over, there’s no way that I could then love C to the extent that XY seems to love Jing.

My subjective conclusion therefore is that while XY was attracted by XL, she grew to greater fondness of him over time. By the time in Episode 25 as mentioned at timestamp 18:25, she looked back with fondness at their interactions. She has developed love for XL but not the kind of love that would push Jing away.

The only time in Season 1 when XY could have changed to love XL more, was when she decided to let him kiss her underwater. However XL wisely did not take advantage of that time because she had just been distraught and heartbroken. He knew a kiss then would have complicated everything and been a disservice to their relationship. In any case, I’m sure XL would have been proud enough to require that XY came to him on her own volition because of positive feelings for him, rather than because of negative feelings for Jing.

If it’s any consolation for those who really wanted a kiss between them… let it be a happy reminder that the first kiss (to give air) to ever take place in this show was between XL and Wen Xiao Liu. This was when XL had almost drowned Xiao Liu in order to affect CX who had the poisonous bug then.

@GB

Yes, to ‘the sylish vehemence’ of XL – thank you for locating that for me. I haven’t been able to re-locate the moment.

Yes – nowhere to belong and people (including CX the mortal enemy) to belong to! It must have been a bitter pill for XL to swallow – having absorbed the love bug!!

Ok another question… would he have been open to the love bug with that prior information??

I so agree with your expanded discussion of irony in relation to XY’s apparent non-dependence on XL and her desire to depend on Jing.

What about dangerous eros/passion/being swept away as an aspect of the relationship with XL/FFB? Dangerous masculinity as opposed to devoted masculinity. Jing was never meant to threaten XY with his masculinity was he? Except – of course – when she welcomed his initiative in that great kiss scene.

You and I were both delighted. Jing appeared to have knocked it out of the park – there was some attack to that kiss.

There are descriptions in the book of XY’s enjoyment of the Jing kiss… so Tong Hua doesn’t present him as lacking in testosterone…

But his is, nevertheless, more of a courtly courtship rather than a dangerous courtship.

@Ewiecharlie,

Just saw your posts. Thank you.

So XY’s father is a cruel deity rather than a demon. He is called a demon because of his qualities as deity.

I rather wonder why XY’s Mum had an affair with him – if she did – if he was a brutish deity. We will no doubt get more facts on that.

I have to say this whole demon/deity thing works very differently in Chinese mythology from what I am used to.

We need to keep an eye on the way this develops in the storyline.

Do please drop by again if we have the wrong end of the stick!

In fact, do add your thoughts whenever you fancy.

I also feel that the prequel by Tong Hua is something to read… that would probably help get the foundations of the story completely clear.

@GB I don’t know if they’ll ever explain in the drama, the answer is indeed in the prequel. In the prequel and nouvel, she is Xiyan. Xiling is the name she goes by when wandering the wilderness. She is the king’s only daughter. She met Chi Chen first and was later engaged to the first prince of Haoling. Many things happen that force her to finally accept to marry the Haoling 1st prince. She and the Haoling prince agree to a marriage of convenience until he manages to become the next Haoling king then she is free to pursue her happiness. Of course things happen and she ends up keeping the pretense as the Haoling queen while at the same time being Chi Chen’s wife. By this time, the Haoling king ends up falling in love with her but she is already pregnant with Chi Chen’s child.
And where is Chi Chen? He is in a coma and has already earned his bad reputation.
When XY is born it is obvious whose child she is, so the Haoling king and queen decide to change her appearance with the rejuvenating flower. War happens and with most of her brothers dead, she divorces and ends up commanding the army against Chi Chen.

THE SEASON 1 BOOKENDING (Episode 1 compared with Episodes 38 and 39)
I’m sure there are other points of comparison between the beginning and the ending of Season 1. I’m just mentioning the few obvious ones that struck me. I like bookending scenes because they show that the Writer planned the ending from the start and successfully led us to the finish line.

1)The red Ruomu flower: CX’s mother came from the Ruomu Clan and wore the flower in her hair. Before she kills herself, she gives CX the flower, telling him to give it to his beloved in the future. In Ep 39 CX leaves the flower in XY’s hair after he gives her the sleeping draft. When juxtaposed, the bookend leaves one in no doubt that XY is the one CX loves.

2)In Ep 1 child CX speaks with Grandfather after XY’s mother’s death is announced and CX is told to be a hero like his parents and XY’s parents.
CX : “I swear I won’t become like them. I swear I won’t do what they did and leave my wife, my mother, and my children, in endless grief and pain without someone to rely on. I will live on. I will live on well. I will be the King of Xiyan.”
King of Xiyan : “To be the King of Xiyan is even harder than being a hero. It is an arduous and dangerous journey.”
CX : “I’m not scared. I promised my granny and auntie to protect Zhaoyun Park and XY. There’s nothing I won’t do to grow powerful.”
King of Xiyan : “Okay, I will wait to see that.”

In Ep 39 Grandfather says that he has already cultivated the best king for Xiyan. He crowns CX and nods in approval. The camera angle makes the roof of Daming Hall high behind him look like wings on his back. Later we get the same camera angle for the shot of CX standing before the hall, wearing the double dragon crown and with the ‘wings’ of the roof behind him.

3) In Ep 1 Yue Liang and other kids had knocked CX down and jeered at him. In Ep 39 I enjoyed a great deal of delight seeing his evil uncles and cousins kneel before him.

CX had carried out his promise “There’s nothing I won’t do to grow powerful.” And Grandpa has also kept his promise to wait and see. I mentioned before that Grandpa had been grooming CX since he was a child, keeping him under surveillance, testing him and protecting him at the same time by distancing himself from his beloved grandson. Abdicating in CX’s favour had been on his mind for centuries.

4) In Ep 1, CX and XY had promised to be together always as siblings, with XY saying that the next time he got bullied, CX should call her and she’d protect CX. In Ep 39, CX sends XY away (unsuccessfully) to separate her from him and keep her safe, before he risks his life attending the worship ceremony. XY however had the wit to pretend to be asleep and to sneak in to the coronation ceremony, bow and arrow at the ready to protect CX.

5)In Ep 38-39 CX comforts XY who admits that she cannot control her feelings for Jing and is depressed. Out of the blue CX insists that XY lets him carry her home. He walks through the carpet of red Poinciana flowers with XY on his back. The piggy back ride scene felt out of place to me, until I re-watched Ep 1. There, XY had fought off the cousins who had bullied CX. She had comforted CX and carried him across a carpet of Poinciana flowers. As an adult, he was finally able to return the favour.

As a child CX had said more than once that he would protect his aunt, cousin, etc… but had been told that he was a silly child without the power to do so. As an adult, CX had finally gained the power he craved to protect those under him and XY.

@GB – thank you.

Great September 5th post on bookends and intentionality in the shape of the story!

September 6th. This is a super interview. I like the fact that he has engaged so thoughtfully and sensitively with his character. His attention to detail has payed off.

Thank you for your kind words, @Kate. I took a break from Lost You Forever and binged 20 episodes of Under Your Skin. I enjoyed that Tan Jian Ci fix LOL.

Hi @Kate, I saw and replied. Do let me know when you’re back from your busy week and when you’re going off again. I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

That’s good news @Ewicharlie!

@Ewicharlie and @Kate
Notwithstanding the novel saying that Chi Chen was not a real demon, what struck me in Episode 15 was that in XY’s flashback narrative of what she went through as a child, she was able to kill the nine-tailed fox who had imprisoned her. Show depicts her eyes turning red when she poisoned him, like how XL’s eyes turn red when he’s in demon mode. I suspected from then that she really has demon blood in her.

I’m putting this out here because I’ll forget it again when I move on.

Her eyes turned purple. XL’s eyes not only turn red but serpentine while XY only had the outer circle turn purple.
If i remember correctly, there was a time Chi Chen had to call up all of the power of nature while seriously injures when his eyes might have changed colour. So XY must have gotten those from him. Chi Chen was a unique deity. He was called “king of the beasts” because he had control on all animals without using any Magic. At the same time he could use all five elements while all other deities could use at most two. Many times in Once Promised you feel that Chi Chen is the manifestation of nature. In his last moment he used his blood to grow recreate life on scorched soil.
I realise XY being stripped of her powers helped hide her identity.

Latest news through AvenueX is that Season 2 may air as soon as end of this year!!! So we may not need to wait for 12 months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=285i_ugyeq4

Now I’m tempted to read the ‘Once Promised’ prequel or to sneak a peek at the novel’s version of LYF’s ending. But I still prefer to not be spoiled and I have little time!!

I don’t know whether to read the novel before Season 2 airs… I know enough of the ending now to know whether Tong Hua has made significant twists when we see the final episodes…

Having watched another of her shows… her not liking an ending won’t necessarily mean she changes it to something happier… If she is going to keep the basic story in tact… I would like her to make one change and that is that XY is allowed to know what has been done on her behalf. I know that will be painful but I also want credit to go where credit is due!

Well… I can’t strongly disagree with you on that @GB!! It would be a heavy load. I struggle with the thought of his simply melting out of sight. Sigh!!

Yes, let’s hope for that!!! Otherwise, it will be chocolates and therapy for us!

Here’s an interesting mash-up cut or edit of at least 3 shows. I recognise 2 of them and am guessing as to the third. Obviously made by/for fans who want a Yang Zi and Tan Jian Ci pairing, LOL. The contemporary TJC drama is “Under the Skin”. The contemporary Yang Zi drama is – I’m guessing – “The Psychologist”.

It’s so well done that the modern and period dramas flow into each other as if they were made to tell one story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExRBnBYrYq8

Below is the link to the Chinese video site bilibili, with TJC reacting to the edits with his pets. Too cute.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Bj411171b/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click

@Kate, I looked up TJC and dogs on YT but found not only those cute furry friends but also a new way of presenting the video of TJC doing the sweet girly dance, as if it was a flip book!! I’ve seen the video but this was quite a novel way to present it. It’s the first short.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lA0brXr5Io0

The little dogs appear in a few shorts here:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nHLJFn-osWE

The reason the shipping wars are so intense in Lost You Forever is because in the novel, XY’s actions contradict her words. She says she wants to be with TSJ, yet acts very ambiguous with XL.
For ex, Ep 23: TSJ immediately sees the intimacy of XY sleeping in her boudoir with just a curtain separating her and FFB. These are things you only do with your closest family members or your husband. And FFB looks a lot like XL.
Ep 25: When FFB entered her chambers and she realises he’s injured, she puts him on the bed and jumps into bed with him, covering them both with the blanket. She is in a state of undress (we know because her maid who alerts her of her cousin’s searching tells her to get dressed) and her cousin, after searching sees the chest cover, realises she’s wearing nothing underneath and starts leering towards her bosom. She notices the leering, sees the chest cover hanging on the bed, throws him out of her room, puts the chest cover away, snuffs out the lights and jumps right back in bed with FFB. So she’s very aware of the sexual implication of lying on the same bed not very dressed with FFB. After she has confirmed FFB=XL, when she offers her wrist, she turns her body so she can see him drink from her. She watches intently, gets turned on, when he looks up, lies to herself she’s shying away because she’s still afraid from him. As soon as XL realises he’s draining her, he gives her some tonic, lies back down to start healing himself. What does XY do? She lies back down on the same bed while watching heal all night! What happened to propriety? Her 15 year promise to TSJ?!
Ep 27: The first time TSJ takes her to Chi Chen’s abode after he has gifted her the purple fish core, there is a pond there she wants to frolick in but as soon as she enters the water, she starts thinking about XL. To distract herself she persuades Jing to swim to the bottom of the pond with her, then stops him from going up to get some air passes him through her lips, continues to hold him down while pointing at her lips. Jing refuses, extract himself from her, forcefully swims up and when she comes up she asks why he refused to get air from her
He tells it’s because he was not in her eyes at that moment. They don’t talk for a long moment then when they have calmed down, she tells him she likes him for his kindness and that placates him.
Ep 31-32: In the novel, XL cuddles her to sleep after every healing session.
Ep 37: When XY’s heart hurts, she mumbles for XL to cut it out and TSJ who is taking care of her, hears her (her reaction has nothing to do with him). In the ocean, XL tells her the clam shell is the mercouple’s home and where they will raise their young. This leads her to think about the clam shell she slept in for 37 years, how they shared a pillow for 37 years like a married couple. She starts wondering if XL considers their clam shell their home and with that train of thought, her heart starts beating fast, XL feels it, his own heart starts beating fast, she feels it and he immediately cuts the connection off leading to wonder if she imagined his reaction. She realises XL does not want her to know how tender and intimate he was with her during her coma so she decides to keep the memories buried deep inside of her and never reveal she was conscious at that time.

The drama censored many of their interactions because God forbid a heroine loves more than 1 man at the same time.

Thanks @Ewicharlie, I guessed that there might have been more going on in the novel, but not quite so much in the ‘tending towards risque’ quarter and on the part of XY!

I agree with @Kate, I feel, from an outsider point-of-view, that if XY had acted that way in the drama, I would not have liked her. She was behaving like a fickle child when she was an adult who had once taken great care of others. What happened to the self-sacrificing, mature Wen Xiao Liu? Did her personality get changed to serve the ‘multiple lovers’ plot?

The novel makes her behaviour skim the edge of almost selfishly hanging on to 2 men for her own reasons. I believe on the one hand, she could not exactly get rid of XL since he needed her help to heal, and (I read comments on this) although she would have preferred to be with XL, she chose TSJ for the security of his ultimate faithfulness and because he was ‘obedient’. Poor TSJ sounds like the family dog. The beloved pet, but never the master? In any case, presumably she’s in denial so I gather that she did not tell TSJ how she really felt. She used him as a smokescreen, lying to herself that she did not care for XL in the romantic way. It would be worse if she knew how she felt and still continued as she did with TSJ.

It’s unfortunate that once again the character who starts out as someone to be respected becomes someone grey … whom one cannot totally approve of. She demanded faithfulness in others, but was not emotionally faithful to them or even to herself.
By comparison (again from comments I read), XL was sincerely generous and self-sacrificing towards XY, ie… his love was true. He never professed his love so we cannot say that he ‘walked the talk’, however XY who claimed to love TSJ did profess her love, but her behaviour in the novel belies that, and so she looks like a hypocrite.

We wait to see if Season 2 will follow the novel. If it does, then the novel’s end is probably the most fitting.

@Ewicharlie, did the novel end before the promise of waiting 15 years for TSJ or did it go beyond it to hundreds of years after?

Whatever happens in Season 2 – we have the advantage of this conversation.

Thank you @Ewicharlie.

I agree with your points @GB. In fact, for me XY is already dancing around that possibility of being too selfish for us to like.

But I see from @Ewiecharlie’s comments that she is in a bind of sorts!

Hi @Kate, I agree that XY is in a difficult position. What she might have some control over is whether she hurts TSJ or not. TSJ might be smart in business and great in the arts, but his one big failing was pledging himself to XY for all time, and then having to stomach all kinds of inadvertent hurts/betrayal.

It occurred to me that the main characters each decided on their own goal and then ‘enslaved’ themselves in some way to achieve their goals. XY’s goal might be to never be alone or abandoned again. In order to fulfill this, she makes the promise to Jing.

Jing’s enslavement is to always be with XY. CX’s is to be a strong and successful ruler who would not be bullied. XL’s is frustratingly to die in battle while supporting the rebels of his foster father. They essentially trapped themselves by the pledges they made, which led to their living their lives without achieving full happiness.

I gather from comments that ultimately XL of the novel might be considered the most successful in that he managed to achieve what he aimed for. He was able to love XY, ensure that she was not alone, that she had a place to be/go to and then to fulfill his own commitment without dragging her down.

Yes, to our having this conversation to come back to regardless of how frustrating Season 2 turns out. 🙂

Very late to this post.But just discovered your site following a search for reviews of this show.

The answer to whether Jing managed to solve his wife and “child” issue within the 15 years is, no. In fact he didn’t manage to get himself out of the situation until XY helped him. Not the most competent person, I’m afraid.

I’m a little concerned about the possible changes to the second season which may change the characters and relationships from the novel too much. That’s the risk of watching an adaptation of a novel that you like.

Yes.To me, Jing is a rather weak and passive character in the novel. There were many opportunities for the author to “change” him for the better, but she frustratingly chose to keep him incompetent/helpless to the very end. It’s bad enough that he couldn’t resolve his issues for a decade+, XY had to help him to fix the issue by pretending to “seduce” his brother. It does not make him look good at all. I don’t know how much novel spoilers you want, but it seems that they are changing the drama so that he doesn’t come across as so helpless and downplaying Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu’s connection/love as well.

Highly doubtful that they will change the ending for XL and it’s very much in line with his character. Frankly, he’s very key to LYF being memorable so they won’t deviate. Although there’s a good chance that they’ll give Jing a personality transplant so you won’t get everything that you asked for 🙂

I noticed the comments about Xiao Yao’s selfishness and fickleness; something that some novel readers struggled with with this character. I think they’ve toned it down for the drama because 1) they don’t want the FL to get criticized and 2) they are pushing hard for the 1:1 pairing between Xiao Yao and Jing – due to censorship issues. In the novel, her feelings for Xiang Liu are apparent, particularly given the Lovers Bugs connection. Xiang Liu is the person that she wants, but can’t have/is too afraid to go for while Jing is the puppy whose adoration meets her request to always be placed first (that’s not to say that she doesn’t have affection/care for him). For Xiao Yao, it’s a case of learning to love what you have because you can’t have what you want.

It’s fascinating to watch a drama adaptation of a book that you like and see how people who haven’t read the novel react/respond to the story. Particularly with the potential changes – the novel reader in me is screaming “you can’t do that” :). And all the details that get left out which impact the understanding of the story (IMO, of course).

@GrowingBeautifully

How much I’ll enjoy the drama overall will depends on how season 2 turn out. If the leak S2 script panned out then it’s not good, IMO. Season 1 have been satisfactory. There are some changes that I didn’t like (the scene of FFB revealed as XL in XY’s bedroom another poster mentioned above), and while TJC’s XL is slightly different from novel XL, I enjoyed his performance overall.It’s expected for any adaptation that it won’t 100% follow the novel.

Before I answer your question, I would like to note that XL is my favourite character from the book, I believe that there is mutual love between him and XY although I don’t necessarily ship them together. So while I think my understanding/interpretations are fair, if you ask some hardcore Jing’s fan, they’ll tell you that XY only sees XL as a friend and his love is unrequited :-). With that said…

While the novel did not say straight out, I think it can reasonably be deducted. First, Jing mentioned on some occasions that he knows that he’s not the best match for her and that FFB is better suited to her (he knows that FFB is XL), but that he just can’t let her go. Second, Jing has a certain tendency to “be around” whenever XY is alone together with XL/FFB. It’s like he’s insecure and want to keep an eye on things. There were a few occasions when XY unconsciously chased after XL, completely forgetting about Jing being there. In one particular scene Jing had to physically pulled her back instinctively because he was afraid that if he didn’t she would vanish from his life. This was after they came from seeing the Voodoo King and XY (and Jing) learn the true meaning/extend of the Lovers Bugs.

IMO, Jing is well aware of XY’s feeling for XL and part of the reason that he asked for the 15 years promise stemmed from wanting to locked her down and giving himself the best chance possible. But Jing will never let XY go because she has became his reason for living so when she “died” following the assassination, he had no reason to live and wanted to die with her.

LYF is an interesting book where the author hid the XY/XL love line, using the Lovers Bugs as the most obvious indicator of their mutual love. But even that get dismissed by some readers/viewers. However, some of the author’s interviews and the forewords in the first edition of the novel are strong indicators what what she’s trying to tell with the story. IMO, of course :-).

@GrowingBeautifully

Watching an adaptation of a work that you like is risky since it’s not feasible or likely that no deviations will be made. I wasn’t going to watch LYF the drama for that reason, but TJC’s XL sucked me in. I made the mistake of watching a few short clips of him and that was it. XL is quite opaque in the novel – the author does not give much if anything from his perspective. TJC gives you glimpses into XL’s inner world and emotions that helped make him 3D instead of the cold-faced figure that he could have been in the hands of a less competent actor. Hence, while some loyal XL’s fans from the novel dislike certain changes in the drama, most enjoy TJC’s XL.

I think it’s a testament to the character’s appeal that despite the drama elevating Jing and the XY/Jing relationship and downplaying many of XY/XL’s moments/connections, there are still a fair number of viewers who prefer XL and the XY/XL’s relationship. When the novel was released more than 10 years ago, XL was the overwhelming fan favourite. And despite Jing ending up with XY, the question of who is the actual romantic male lead has never gone away. This showed that he’s not your typical second male lead with unrequited love and this isn’t your typical love triangle. The author’s many interviews surrounding LYF give you insights into the characters and the various relationships in this novel. She explicitly stated that XY has psychological barriers due to her childhood and her choices came from these barriers. If you look at the love triangle from that perspective, it’s very clear, IMO, who she truly loves.

The Love Bugs is not the accurate name; the actual translation is The Lovers Bugs. Lovers – it’s in the name as to the nature of the love/connection between the two hosts. If it was just Love Bugs then you could argue that it could be friendship love or familial love etc. In the novel, the part where the Lovers Bugs were explained stated: “Lovers Bugs, as the name suggests, is a pair of female and male bugs….For the Lovers Bugs to be successfully planted it needs a pair of willing lovers…once planted they either live together with one-heart or die together if they are no longer one-hearted.” I don’t think the author can make it any more explicit. XL was able to transfer the bugs from CX because it was not properly planted as CX wasn’t willing. I suppose you could argue that we can’t rule out that if he had been willing, then siblings love would be enough, but I think with all the other information, you’ll just being pedantic :-).

Your issues with Jing are also the same reason why I’m not fond of him and the XY/Jing pairing. That and I think that Jing is too passive and helpless. His lack of self-respect, combined with the helplessness and foolishness in the name of love is very off-putting to me. I know that some viewers find his devotion to XY to the point that he couldn’t live without her to be touching. I just find it appalling and shows he just lacks strength of character – neither CX nor XL would have done what he did. And that’s because unlike the other two, Jing had made XY the centre of his universe. Not attractive to me at all. I think we no-nonsense people see this as unhealthy rather than romantic :-). And yes, he’s willing to be irresponsible and selfish because of his “love” for XY. I just can’t respect such a person.

Hi @Cali, spoilers never bother me, so no problems!

I found the MDL threads where people are putting up links to leaked S2 scripts!!! Tempting but I don’t have time to read so much.

I never really explored MDL but the discussions there, over Lost You Forever is tremendously big, long and many. The community there can be challenging as well as fun. It depends on which threads one finds oneself reading!