From the March WAWW thread, @ibisfeather wrote to @GB:

*****
@GB (hopefully snoozing away)

Pursuit of Jade: after the 1st 15 minutes I know it will be good. Why?

Characters
— the butcher’s daughter/ChangYu/actress Tian XiWei looks sturdy as she throws some pig blood over the awful village crones, who in the way of all great dramas are giving us all the info on her life in the guise of spiteful Gossip. (I did see a little more of TXW last week in ‘Fated Boy’ in a solid comic supporting role too)
— in a sillier way, Zhang LingHe comes to light under some fallen snow/a fallin’ noble, and after he gets dragged home, physicked and washed, ChangYu assures her little (cute!) sister that she didnt just pick him up because he was handsome. Then side by side they both peer down at them and in perfect unison their mouths fall open just a tiny. For, in fact, Xie Zheng/the actor ZL, looks toothsome a little bruised abed.

Themes and visuals
— the credits are interlaced with spreading frost and snow crystals, and lushly packed with interesting images.
— We start with a winter village pig-butchering. Setting off home after being tagged as a lone star of calamity, ChangYu assures her employer that the ‘almanac’ says today is her lucky day. On the road home the ML is found wounded in the snow but the blood doesnt bother the butcher’s girl. She does, however, nearly kill him by unwisely using medecine.

I am planning to have a very good time.

Continued from the March WAWW thread. @ibisfeather posted:

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Re Pursuit of Jade
eps8-9

Virtues of the show so far:
— the FL character avoids all the more annoying recent tropes, no bubbly-girl, no trauma queen — She is sincere, honest, direct, surviving a ‘bitter fate’ with elan and eclat. TXW now has my heart for the best woebegone eyes in the business. So pretty.
— the ML starts off really terribly wounded. The show doesnt have him suddenly burst into action without physical consequences. Gaunt, ill, often without/w/minimal eye make-up, ZLH is terribly attractive. He might have been the king of tsundere MLs but when being bandaged and unbandaged day in and out it is hard to be haughty and distant. So far, as a lame, often mocked, live-in husband, ZLH holds onto his precarious dignity beautifully.

In this show the distinction between fighters, scholars and working people as types is much clearer than usual. ZLH is in hiding and conceals his education, but his nature is similiar to the FL’s. They are both people of action, military types; he is a reknowned general and she is the skilled daughter of a skilled fighter who hid his family away in a little village for reasons unknown. They fall in love by looks and gazes; they do not pretend otherwise and they do not discuss their feelings in endless misunderstandings. It is wonderful cinema.

The candied tangerine kiss from ep.9 will go down in history. Firstly because it is a small tentative wonder and secondly because the lovers are then interrupted by yet another horde of black-clad assassins.

As one or more commentator has said, the blood looks real, the fighting is natural and brilliantly choreographed, the story is a standard heroic fantasy made fresh again by intelligent charming, humorous writing, really sharply defined acting and inspired camerawork.

The best thing may be that it is a slow-burn show in more than one sense. Not too many new characters all at once. The politics while interwoven with the village action is only now beginning to pick up steam. And it is one of my favorite plots too — marriage first, love later. To do this properly in a hero-story, both persons needs must be sincere and have innate dignity (no squirming around, please). And they do.

After 3 days PoJ is already becoming a hit show. Lots of complaints by people who prefer bingeing that they got hooked and cannot wriggle out of watching day by day.

From the March WAWW thread, @GB replied to @ibisfeather:

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@IB, in the end I still binged and completed “Love Story in the 1970s” which I enjoyed and found sweet, although the ending was a bit abrupt… however we know how those characters will continue so it was okay. I’d recommend that show for the intrepid spirit, and the “can do, and will do better” attitude with a winning set of characters. I like that everyone (even the small side characters) had a trajectory and it was organic rather than melodramatic.

Since I was at a loose end, I started on Pursuit of Jade. I’ve had a great time with the first 5 episodes. 🙂

And so the common thing in both these dramas is the “marry first for practical reasons and fall in love later” premise. In good character couples it will work out well…. not so much for bad guy/gals. One of the satisfying tropes is of course that there is poetic justice.

I’m seeing that the trend now for cdramas (and maybe even other country dramas) is that the women take the lead in a lot of life. It seems ‘normal’ now in dramas for the men to take a backseat, to be the ones to take direction from the wives/girlfriends and for the women to be stronger – even physically, than men.

I am amused by the thought that ML was hauled back home by the FL the way a pig would be, to the slaughter LOL but instead of having him knocked out before being butchered, he was almost butchered first and had to be revived and helped to recover.

Like you @IB, I have noticed the opening credits of both “Love Story in the 1970s” and “Pursuit of Jade”. They are evocative and informative. In “Love Story” I liked how they were line drawings which harkened to the ML’s art that was so full of life. In PoJ, it’s obvious from the opening credits and the change in the silver hair pin, that after some halcyon days in the Winter countryside, we will face the heat of battle.

😁🏹🤺🤼🪓🔪🧹📜🐷🥩🥓😋😆😎

@birdie007 wrote:

*****

I watched Love in the 1970s and recommend. I don’t recall watching a drama set in that time period and found it interesting. now I’m watching pursuit of jade. I’m hoping to find a kdrama but nothing has caught my eye. My only complaint about pursuit of jade is that I have to watch on Netflix and their subtitles feel lacking. I’ve seen good things about In your radiant season but I haven’t found where I can watch in the US.

@GB responded:

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@IB, I am not at that point in the series yet. I’m still at Ep 7-9 or thereabouts. I’ll see if I can make notes on the military campaigns.

Still on the March WAWW thread. @ibisfeather posted:

******

Re POJ
the turn, eps 16 to 21

In a heroic-fantasy novel, the initial section of the hero/ine hidden in a humble situation frequently turns into a journey/quest because of a disaster which uproots the ML/FL (and their sidekicks if any so far) from the idyll of youth, whether that idyll was pleasant or unpleasant in itself.

In modern fantasy cinema, current tradition build on that turn, given that, usefully, webnovels provide floods of material and a pre-ready audience. So at the turn, what are “the uses of fairytale”?

In POJ, the little microcosm of village life explodes along seams previously inlaid. And as we spiral out from that point in time we realize that even that ‘fairytale’ was shaped by real world calamity. Why so many women in the village? — because men have been taken away by the war. Both the kindness of the Zhaos and the spite of Ms.Kang spring from the same root. The cinematography of this section continues its excellence.

Likewise the standard tale of greed for power in the capital, in the lack of a stronger ‘hand at the helm’. Out at the edges on the northwest border, the lack of honest administrators suddenly allows for an irruption of fairytale evil. The two sons of the rebel Prince ChanxMin, the younger, a son by blood, the older, a cousin adopted in. They both have perverted emotional natures, deformed by their lives.

The abscess of imperial families boils into view, power struggles in which family members are ruthlessly used and damaged in the process. It is terrifying to watch Ning and Bao-er fall into their clutches. A gloomily gorgeous Sui family mansion set in a deep gorge is the scene. A hint of waterworks to come ala Prisoner of Beauty.

The fairytale village is marked by war. The fairytale villains have stories to tell about cruelty to family members. The fairytale structure is a way to immediately connect to viewers but what is done with that structure makes all the difference. As we now are going all ‘Game Of Thrones’ on shadowy corrupt imperial families, hopefully some balance will be kept when we swing forward into the next turn.

How to run a war.

Our usefully divorced couple now can handle the job at two levels of operation: our heroine FL, with her husband’s missing martial arts Master and her own little band of bodyguards from the village will lead from below, while our heroic, gloomy, cranky but tender ML will lead from above — or from the side? since he is so ‘I will go my own way, harumph’.

And after that? How to run a country and get married again to your wife.

My wishes:
more time at the Academy,
more martial monks,
the safety of all surviving children,
the happiness of Gongsun and his Princess,
and of course, that the falcon finds ChangNing, the source of his favorite rabbit meat, absolutely forthwith.

Two posts from the March WAWW thread. @GB wrote:

*****

@IB, thanks for the review and heads-up. I’m at Ep 11 and will pause a while since I’ve got some things to do. It’s been great! I look forward to the 2nd half of the series!!

******

Then, @birdie007 wrote:

******

I went ahead and read the English translation for the novel. So far, I prefer the drama and the changes the screenwriters made. The novel felt much heavier and more violent with the ML being much colder. I’m glad to know the true identities of her parents and how it all ends, but today’s episode with the princess showing up as a medic is a major change from the novel so I am still anticipating each episode and excited to see how the battle scenes look on screen.

@birdie007 wrote:

****

The novel provides a clearer picture of the horrific things SQM endured that caused/contributed to his insanity. YQQ is described as plain and doesn’t show as much personality unlike the drama version. Add in the fact that the actors are extremely good looking and have ch*m*st*y, it’s easy to see how many viewers have ignored all the blazing red flags and are shipping the “toxic couple”.

Li Q not only has great lines but he does well at physical comedy. His little trip down the stairs today made me LOL.

@sorbetdream popped out of the woodwork to ask this:

******

PoJ – While the dark does get a little too dark, I have been really enjoying the story telling. As of ep. 24, the only moment that really disappointed me was their parting scene and because of that their reunion. It feels like the argument they had was trivialized by her reaction to him actually leaving and then her determination to find him again (without acknowledging her part in sending him away).

Did anyone make sense of that argument and her subsequent reaction?

@ibisfeather posted a rant??

*******

This is sort of a rant, interesting maybe only to those for whom Love in the clouds and Pursuit of Jade were good watches, but who may balk at the frothy fantasies of classic xianxia or the endless tragedies of classic wuxia.

The latest of these suddenly appearing fantasy cdramas on netflix, Veil of Shadows, is one of these Xianxia/wuxia combos at its worst, imo.

It does have lots of very good wuxia duels, a few magic animals, a balance of magic vs. god-powers.
BUT
–no supporting characters of varying ages beyond the central group of youngish souls,
thus no comedy or family sentiments or rank problems.
–soundtrack lacks obviously comic signals or evidence of the natural world (water, wind, doors creaking, dresses slithering, all non-salient.
–visually lacking rich detail and natural elements, snowy cgi wastelands and caves dont count in my book nor do some flowers and a few framing tree branches with leaves.
the man-made world of craft and artisanry practically non-existent — magic ‘stones/gems’ not my thing, costumes boring, architecture also cgi. No history no tactile details..
–framing lacks strong dark/light elements, no wow. Soundtrack not coordinated with shots.
— worst of all, instead of the goofy fairies of xianxia or the melancholy, fierce female comrades or healers of wuxia, the female characters are nine-tailed foxes who like in the more repulsive games/YA books embody the ‘feminine wiles’ without fear, sooooo boring.
The girls are magnificent wuxia fighters however, so one watches….sigh. “one more episode”…

One bow to the more recent cinematic cdrama vocabulary which meta-refers to theatrical artifice, is people-puppets made of wood.

Edward Guo, the writer-director is a famous YA author interested in ‘painted skin’ problems such as demons who want to be human, other ‘crossing the line problems’ of people/gods/and the nicer sort of demons.

— As far as magical animal ‘western’ vocabulary goes the demons, although they are animals have no whisker-twitching or funny grooming or eating compulsions nor do they suffer from any human ghost problems, no shame, no family attachments, no moms…

For comparison of a sort, the also currently running Taiwanese show, Agent From Above, which is very gritty, almost ugly, has demons whose interaction with humans and ghosts and justice and reincarnation problems are very intimate — ride on Third Prince!

The usual elements of debate in asian fantasy are
1. purity of eastern elements vs. “western elements”; since this is also influenced by gaming work, it may be a moot question in the popular mind.
2. gender roles and respectful treatment of characters; complicated also because of wacky role-play elements which make fantasy more of a forest of Jungian archetypes than other dramas.

For me, no nature, no politics, no art or craft, no family histories,
game over.

From April’s WAWW thread, @ibisfeather posted:

******

I slipped a bit in that last — Fan ChangYU, Tian XiWei’s role is the one who is practicallt illiterate.

Transferring my post here:

*******

Me, what grabbed my interests in Ep 1 was the artistic camera shots, e.g., when the girl disappeared in the mist after slaughtering the pig in the opening act, then when she came for him in the pig sty in the final scene. I thought those two scenes made a great connection because for me, that’s the fitting way he should have apperceived her when he opened his eyes for the first time: his protectoress coming out of thin air.

Anyway, talk to you later.

@ibisfeather posted more. From April’s WAWW thread.

*******

A real, serious spoiler follows — ONLY for those who have already reached the end. Or like to have an idea beforehand.

I like the psych-social allegories of the show. The way that the innards of the main characters were transformed into patient profound love, which essentially in the second half became enacted almost always in private.

Once the couple reach the capital with their interestingly parallel triumphal entries, she waits. He has promised that when the problem of his family is solved, that they will return to her territory, while he holds down an administrative job in the Northwest.

The much awaited scene of 108 lashes, long-awaited by the kinky-novel readers, reads very well as the permission structure for the Marquis to present his wife before the family altars.

Many commented that they felt unease during the 3 chapters of the ending. While more fantasy oriented viewers could follow the tropes and signals of the village love story, the true romance fans went crazy both positively and negatively over the war section. The signals were strong about how to follow the story but people resisted them.

In the third section I think that the signals for how to follow a classic palace intrigue werent familiar enough to new watchers of cdrama. I personally spent sometime mulling over what the Eastern Palace was, until I realized it was (duh!) a building in the capital palace complex. Dumb stuff, but for a regular viewer a solid set of trope instincts would have kept them upright in the wash of what happens.

I thought interesting things were happening around Wei Yan and the burning of the (Easter Palace plus?) palaces with women inside. Besides the various rescues needed, and that especially confused the experience…

The most special rescue being CY and YZ; after she dunked him into a palace pool to keep him under control until they got home, the audience was so obsessed with the visions of them working off the aphrodisiac in the bath, that, I think, no one could keep their attention on anything else more serious!

Speaking of allegories. The way that Uncle Wei Yan committed the original crime in order to stabilize the regime. Well, then. And yet his motives were tragic passionate love in the gilded cage..,.

and this which follows below
is one of my last notes on the first watch.
I forgot to talk about Li Huai An’s lot, but I wasnt as interested in his lot as others were.

“Ep40
Super-interestingly, separate wrap-ups of various strands in the story were extremely distinct — differences in lighting, sound and structure.

I really liked this effect because it tickles my ‘THIS IS NEW’ instincts. It also showcased the director’s skill in handling all the different tonal structures which he has shown such masterful control of in this production. Comedy, tragedy, irony, fairytale, shadings of horror and heroic fantasy.

The various wrap-ups, not in any particular order.

1. The simplest and clearest was the main couple. What is in fact a visit back to Xigu Alley for the main couple does not preclude their plans to settle in the northwest and rebuild Lin’An (haha, miles to the south, but oops, the Marquis reclaimed the lost 16 prefectures before the show began, didnt he?).

Since POJ was POV CHangYu all the way through the show, here as she makes her mini triumphal entry, all the dead revive for a few seconds in a rosy haze and Yan Zhang is waiting for her dismount. She promises the dear Zhaos that she will always be with them. No details on how, but if the viewer hasnt learned how to swing with the ZQJ way, whine on. All of their planning has gone well so far, so even the Marquis’ planned military posting in the northwest is included — she wont let him go out alone, so she continues as the not-really-official fighter alongside him in a fairytale way.

In the alternate ending for ChangYu, we see that no matter what, the fairytale love would still have happened. The lack of a role for the hairpin demands an extra scene to be aired later, its absence is so loud I kept shrieking, show the gift, show the gift!

2. WEi Yan. Oh Wei Yan. Deep in the dungeon he awaits death. He narrates the heart of the imperial events which created this story over a game of Go with Grand Tutor Tao. Our couple overhear this, which could make the scene their memory, but just like their overlook inside the palace after the coups (intentional plural) their presence seems more like the act of the stories narrators. The blue ribbon of storytelling.

Wei Yan’s love affair and the doom of Prince Chengde have already been emotionally dealt with in the previous episode. In ep40 his personal tragedy is felt. The question of whether he deserves reincarnation is a live issue for me. I think that the show’s message is that justice demands he not return as a human. But somehow the viewers in this style have the right to love WEi Yan anyway, despite his crimes. Makes you think, hmm?

The alternate ending for WeiYan is wrapped within the main couple strand. Since he is really, justly, and very very dead in the show’s main narrative, his resurrection only makes sense as a fantasy redo of family ties.

3. As for the toxic and doomed lovers, Yu QianQian and QiMin, the show gives them the best weeper ending, since the warm ending(s) for ChangYu and Yan Zheng is a sentimentally satisfying one.

In the alternate ending these two get the funniest roles. They deserve it. I loved them.

4. The Empire and its problems. Yu QianQian makes the difficult decision to accept her fate, which technically sets up the final solution of the ruling crisis. She becomes the empress regent along with the main couple, even though they logically must live only part-time in the capital. Bao-er and NingNing happily have a normal childhood running around the palace. Let us hope the falcon, now Ning’s instead of Gongsun Yin’s does not get too fat to fly.

4. Qi Shu, the previous Grand Princess, visits her now completely insane brother, Qi Sheng. Cdrama watchers worried that his food was poisoned, but no, a refraction of QiMin occurs, but a cheerful one. Qi Sheng now satisfactorily plays the role of a mad but now harmless (ex-)emperor.

We do not see Qi Shu’s marriage and life with Gongsun. Their last love scene (2 or 3episodes before) will have to do, and it was a very nice scene. AS a plotline outside of the novel’s dramas, they had planned to go live in obscurity in the north as soon as the crisis was over, so this, along with the hairpin and the falcon’s descendants will have to wait for NingNing and Bao-er’s sequel..”

well, that’s it.

@ibisfeather responded:

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Hi @grace! Yes the foot-washing scene was one of the times I was glad I was hanging in there with the main page comments. Someone mentioned it early on before that episode actually aired.

Of course I cant forget TWX’s toes curling. A woman whose feet got pulled into her acting (in this show). It didnt hit me as comically as I had expected though.

Remember how she suddenly pulled her knees together in ep1-2 when she realized — he was an imposing person in some way? Or that she wanted to behave around him with better manners? I thought the first time I watched it that it was because she realized she liked him/wanted to impress him…second time that she realized he had good manners…

By the by my first hopeful 3 posts on POJ were in March, on that WAWW thread.

@ibisfeather’s response to @grace:

*****

Re POJ, still rewatching it. I got stuck on episode 7. Decided it was the most perfect ever. So now I am somewhere in the teens….
I hear there are people out there who have watched the whole thing several times.

Since I watched while it was airing, I did what lots of us did, I would rewatch previous episodes each day.

I am sort of hoping that a POJ thread will arise and then I could rewatch along with that.