Please post your spoilers and comments for Episode 12 here so they’re easier to access. Thanks!
My lunch today: lobster roll. No mayo and no butter. Just lobster meat on bread. My kids had the fries and coleslaw.
I had to eat well for lunch because dinner was your typical boardwalk fare: hotdogs, funnel cake, and custard ice cream. 😂
You made me hungry now 😆 I only had miso soup and peanut butter after about 1 hour. 😄 I had agidashi tofu and spring rolls at around 4 so I didn’t feel like dinner anymore.
I haven’t watched episode 11 and 12. I’ll catch up tomorrow.
Have a great day! ☺️
Miso soup?! I love that with tofu and that papery seaweed. What do you call it?
I had to jog early this morning to burn the funnel cake calories. I thought I was doing pretty well because I was overtaking other joggers too. Then this mom with a stroller passed me by. 😂
Mum with a stroller passing you by 😁 She’s superwoman! ☺️
Wakame seaweed? I had to google it because I didn’t know it too 😁 I love everything tofu. Lucky my boys too ☺️
I’ll leave it here ok. Good morning! 🌞
That sounded like Yeon Woo telling CM he must act the traitor to keep MW alive. I did call this weeks ago, regarding Diana’s men=Man Weol’s men, that Yeon Woo would be complicit in MW turning on CM and perhaps killing him. Orion myth.
This is very sad if true that the firefly is an innocent CM who couldn’t leave MW and has been haunting the tree this whole time. I rather hope there is more to it than this. I mean, couldn’t someone have just explained to MW what happened? Thereby avoiding the vengeful spirit thing? Why the hoopla if this is all there is to it?
I guess I’ll just leave myself in the HS’s capable hands, because this was actually one of my favorite episodes. Different ways of dealing with grief, and we finally really feel the OTP love and their reservations.
I did not expect to be watching a terminal illness show, which I normally avoid like the plague, but I’m committed now.
But I will reiterate what I’ve said before. The HS have drawn their greatest inspiration from The Golden Bough, and the golden bough is a branch or flower that allows humans to descend to the underworld … and return. The whole conversation at the end of this episode about “one flower left” emphasizes and foreshadows I believe what will happen and that I’ve posted before: MW will pass but armed with an undying flower or branch, a golden bough, CS will travel to the underworld and bring her back. It might not happen exactly like this but some iteration will.
Tons to unpack this episode, looking forward to everyone’s thoughts!
i guess i always loving such a melo couple.. chun myung typical character that i usually love most in every kdrama i watch..
the tree seems like relate to chun myung promise to manwol..bcs mago 1, said something if manwol know the truth she will be more sad.. the butterfly or something that keep flying arround the tree was officially the spirit of chunmyung in this ep.
what if when the flowers wilt, relate to chun myung too? three of them. cs mw cm
okay im not quiet good at analysis things. lol so i just wait for your blog to be update with hdl post :p
still cs and manwol such a cute couple in the present time. :p
Some heavy hinting at how Schrödinger‘s firefly will be resolved. Heavy handed pointing at the Captain being the firefly. But there is a sentence by Mago 1:
He’s staying here as a small light because of the promise he made to Man Weol.
We know YW promised to build her a house.
What promise did the Captain make? I can’t remember one. Does Manwol’s wine jug in her tree qualify as a promise to wait for her – by their lake? So, their two spirits walk into the painting and consummate their long delayed tryst by the lake?
Hmmm…
By the way, we had a Gun in the earlier episodes. A shot of a bloody fist holding something spliced in between the captain and the Princess wedding scenes. Except that the sleeve and top wasn’t red – the color that the Princess, the Captain, and even Manwol was wearing. If you look closely (after the fact) you can see that the visible clothing is most likely the Captain’s uniform. That scene showed up again in ep 12 as part of the Captain’s rehabilitation.
Great episode!
I’m glad to get more backstory from MW herself about her past. And confirmation about that firefly.
It is refreshing that at last we have a hero who does not do the stupidly ‘heroic’ thing of heading fast into danger without alerting friends and the right quarters for help/support/backup. Such a relief!
It’s good to see the exploration of the ways grief is and isn’t been dealt with. The best course is really to come to terms with what is real and true, and letting go, no matter how painful. Then only we can grow from it.
We have been happily prepped for the ending 4 episodes ahead of time … will more twists be slotted in to confound us… 4 episodes is a lot of time and can include heaps of red herrings. There’s also the possible irony of CS dying and going off to the afterlife before MW!
We have more than the main farewell to be ready for. Hyun Joong and Yu Na, now being attached, will also have a hard time of letting go.
I’m just unhappy how Chanseong’s murderer-turned-to-evil-spirit chingu(?ugh) will come back for another episode..why not resolve his issue here and there..he’s got more screentime than any other ghost’s and evil spirits so far..LOL
little inside i’m hoping for a happy ending but..now, I’d rather having a sad and broken my heart to pieces ending with how the plot progressing..
and this week’s theme is about letting go right?how to handle losing someone beloved & precious to us..?how simultaneously lucky and unlucky of Chanseong is, knowing he will send Manwol go..how scary it must be..?
I don’t know what man weols reaction may be to realize that chung myung is not that guilty after all. Perhaps she knew and my “he” she means someone else. Im not sure anymore.
in this episode they talk more about the fear of impending fate..letting go of each other…Manweol who, in the beginning lost so much until there’s nothing to lose
anymore..then come Chanseong with his loving and loyalty..at first i thought Manwoel’s afraid of Chanseong’s safety..of losing Chanseong..then come parents who buy lifelines to attach to their dying child..there’s Sanchez too, coping with his grief by sending food to her dead girlfriend..in denial i suppose..
Manwoel is afraid of leaving Chanseong alone after she’s gone..afraid of what will become of him after seeing the effect on parents & Sanchez..
however Chanseong too is afraid..before,he was so hell-bent on taking care of Manweol so she can at last,heal and rest in peace..as his last guest..but he too, afraid of losing her..to not seeing her again..to not be by her side again..to comfort,to hug,to bicker…leaving with only memories of them..trying moving on after losing someone special is sooo consuming..
the dying child said he was afraid too..is that’s why he keep holding on??cause he knew how his parents will be had he gone?
Good take, @papai! I’ve still 20? 10? more minutes left.
I’m still at the beach house. The weather’s great. Will post about lifelines later. In memory of the living, part 3.
Hi to all. Watched both episodes and I have to say I really liked episode 12 not because there’s finally a kiss ( please believe me @packmule3 😂 ) but because MW and CS are finally facing their feelings on how it’s supposed to end for them.
It’s easy to say let go but it’s always the hardest when it’s the one you love. I cried at Sanchez and his girlfriend’s goodbye scene and the last scene with MW and CS. I’m a cry baby ok. 😩
I think I’ll be ok with not having a happily ever after mainly because of the memories that MW and CS’s made already, mostly in a restaurant 😄 . I love that CS always takes her out to eat and to the restaurants that MW loves. 😍 How cute was MW to buy 2? bags full of medicine because she wanted to tend to CS’s wounds? 😊
Interesting that the bellhop said to the 4th manager candidate that her boyfriend should be kind and human. Did he do something unkind?
I don’t care much about the Captain now because MW and CS are more cute together ever since. 😄
Because the evil guy’s the “it” guy. 😂
As I said, Manwol has to go through the “Captain trauma” to get him out of her system. I told you that the Captain may or may NOT come reincarnated. I said “what’s the surprise there?” I said 😂 that we’re looking for the Captain’s ESSENCE. And in Ep 12, Manwol practically said the same thing. She told MaGo “Bring in on!! Let him come!” If the Captain comes as is, in his former physical shape, there’s no redemption for her.
What Manwol has to conquer is her feelings, her berserk response, and her visceral reaction, to what Captain did to her. Whether Captain’s actions were misinterpreted or not, that’s the side story.
To me, the real story is if her loved ones are endangered or killed, what will she do? That’s the moral decision she has to take. If she didn’t learn anything in this millennium, then she dies again.
Reason for Dying
Besides the grief and letting go theme, another theme for this episode is choosing to die. Malevolent Seol Jin Woo chose to die out of spite, to curse CS and bring a host of curses upon him in the process.
The doctor’s son chose death when he learnt that his parents had unnaturally lengthened his life and were harming themselves. It was a choice to do what was right ie what should have been from the beginning. He was afraid to die but he agreed.
The Fears and the Sorrow
MW noted in the previous episode that she had forgotten about the sorrow of those who were left behind. She had lived for so long, deliberately not forming any attachments and wanting to disappear without loss or fear, but finds now at the end that she has a loved one to lose and fear for that loved one.
She suddenly finds herself witness to the loss of others and is reminded again and again of grief, as she observes Sanchez, the parents of the boy and CS.
Now (in the last 2 episodes) that she is approaching the end of her earthly life (or so the show intimates), MW is ironically made to consider the needs of the living newlyweds starting their married lives, the need for physical healing (in the medication she bought), the need to face reality and let go and the need for healing from loss.
As she thought of the little boy who had admitted fear of death, MW said aloud, “Afraid” and Grim Reaper thought she was referring to fear that the vengeful spirit was loose, but she was fearful of her own end.
The Beginning of Goodbyes
MW’s response to Sanchez’s mistaken hope was the correct one. Pretending in order to avoid the pain of the reality was false comfort. Facing the pain of the truth is something Sanchez, CS and even MW herself has to put into practice. Sanchez may have gone to a funeral but he had not yet let Veronica go.
I like that CS is given time to process his grief way in advance, and to come to terms with it, rather than to face a sudden death like Sanchez. Painful though it is, CS is blessed with foreknowledge and the chance to prepare for the worst.
I liked the scenes between MW and CS this episode, like the intense one after CS tried to comfort Sanchez at the restaurant and MW refused to play along. They faced the fear of MW’s leaving and CS having to see her off. He recalls how he didn’t want to pay the price of staying by her side and looking after her. He would have been a clingy nuisance or pathetic, (and therefore uncool), which she would despise.
So much raw honesty was good for them. It paved the way for MW to be the most vulnerable and admit her fear. The petals started to fall in earnest.
In the end, the only thing that really remains of us after death are the memories. It was sweet that Yu Na put the drawing of Bellhop Hyun Joong into the columbarium niche with her. It was a ‘Couple grave’, poignant yet funny. A celebration of life after death. The ‘dating’ at work was also cute yet sad.
I found the scene between CS and MW outside Sanchez’s home immensely moving. She had gone to admit her fear of disappearing, leaving not even a trace, and to seek comfort. In the past she had wanted it but not anymore. I liked the call back to the first leaf and how the petals were falling unto or into CS, making a pile heavy and painful to carry, but it was a responsibility he had chosen to bear. Accepting the loss and letting go out of love, so that she could leave in peace.
Fearing being left without a trace, MW’s kiss, I felt, was for the memory and CS’s hug was to give comfort. A sweet end for the episode.
Noteworthy:
IU’s eyes were red rimmed in this scene. It did not look like make-up or an act but true grief and pain. My heart ached for them. I was impressed. The song (I guess it’s called ‘A Happy Ending’) was sung by IU herself.
Hello ladies, is extending someone’s life by attaching a piece of someone else’s life line to the palm is a real thing?? I have never heard of such a thing. Even if it existed it must be something like a witch craft, any ideas? (this was on ep 12)
Seol Jiwon’s plot line felt a little dragged out – Although I do think it’s a little perhaps hypocritical or ironic that MW would want him gone ASAP while he wants to stay and spread hate… sounds a bit too like MW herself if you ask me!
Was prepared for Captain’s “He’s actually not a villain!!!” moment and I can hear all the fangirls crying.
Really liked how they’re being clear with each other about their fears and emotions!
4 episodes to go…. I’m waiting to see how it all plays out…
I believe the lifeline is just the most prominent of the creases in your hand, made when a baby in the womb closes its fist. So no, can’t be removed or added either literally or symbolically! But it was a neat idea for the story. I haven’t seen it before, where they take the idea of extending a life and give it physical form in quite this way. Clever.
Finally I could see episode 12!.
@packmule3 , that lobster sandwich looked delicious!, hope you enjoyed it with your family =) .
@papai , “I’m just unhappy how Chanseong’s murderer-turned-to-evil-spirit chingu(?ugh) will come back for another episode..why not resolve his issue here and there..he’s got more screentime than any other ghost’s and evil spirits so far..LOL”.
My guess is that the writers decided to keep the murdering files still floating. It generates plot tension on one hand and at the other one (my guess) is that it will attract thriller viwewer’s attention.
*******
At this time the most important theme is the emotional tension of the characters. How truth must be addressed head on to avoid unnecessary grief (possibly even avoiding to fall into people twisting this grief for their benefit).
Man-Wol needs to know that her dearest person (who is more valuable to her than her red car *** cross that, her ENTIRE fleet XD ***) will keep on living, and having a fulfilling life. Chang-Sung is bracing himself for a world without her. It is interesting as far as reversals how the known (normal world) that was embraced by him at the beginning of the show has been abandoned for the unknown that is her world. He abandoned his world for hers and now she is experimenting his world through contact with other humans… and their grief. The more she approaches her sending off the more human she gets.
Life is the unpredictable and the unexpected in both the terrible (as Sanchez losing Verónica) and the wonderful (as for Sanchez finding a true friend in Chang-Sung).
Another point is that both Man-Wol and Chang-Sung are fighting their grief. Man-Wol seems to be clinging to life at the very end of it just to have a few more moments with Chang-Sung (remember the 120 years old lady that had lived all that was available to a person but still wanted to know her great-grandson?) since at last the fountain that is her heart is filled again. She is starting to live right when she is should be preparing herself to die. A paradox…
By the way @GrowingBeautifully , enjoyed a lot your take on this episode’s themes. The bellbutton and the schoolgirl sharing a columbarium was both poignant and beautiful: he could be buried in an unmarked grave but she decided that his place was beside her.
This Drama is turning into a study of grief.
Hope to read more of all of you!!!
I closed my eyes for a moment when they showed the lifeline scar. Ugh. It reminded me of a heart bypass scar except the young boy’s lifeline scar is crooked because each one is grafted on. Ughhh.
The lifeline is the one that looks like a letter C on your palm. It starts from that space between the pointer and the thumb, and goes down to the wrist.
https://www.yourchineseastrology.com/palmistry/life-line-reading.htm
There is something I want to talk about.
At the end, around 1:20:00 Man Wol said “They (flowers) vanish even before touching the ground”, we also saw that before. Next that she thinks that nothing will remain. Chan Sung also said something meaningful, later Man Wol: “Being left only as a petal which will vanish is too sad”,
but my point is that: when they kissed, we clearly saw a scene with petals which stayed at the ground. Metaphor, spoiler or both/something else/I didn’t understand? I really flattened this beautiful scene but I just needed to write everything I remembered.
also,isn’t Manweol’s outfit & hairdo in this ep eerily similar with her OOTD when she’s saving Chanseong from eyeless spirit?
As a sort of lurker, I wanted to leave a comment to thank this blog and the commenters for providing some good insight for this show. I barely watch any Kdramas and the only two Kdramas I completed before were a parody and a short two episode one. I’ve seen random snippets of stuff my grandmas watched and some of my fangirl friends blabber about, so I’m actually familiar with Kdramas tropes and the community, but I just never bother to watch a full one and started this one on a whim but ended up sticking around, partly thanks to this blog in fact. I didn’t find a lot of places online that had any meaningful discussions and analysis, as that’s what I like to see, so this has been a nice oasis from the oppa fangirling even though I haven’t agreed with everything on here, this blog and its commenters have really helped me process what I’m watching, and I really appreciate that.
Anyways, so as to not leave a ramble in vain, I wanted to add a few of my thoughts so far:
– I thought the Hell website and how the curses were empowering Seol Jiwon might have been some sort of commentary on hateful comments and that kind if thing online and how it is not just harmless stuff.
– I’m surprised the security around Seol Jiwon wasn’t that tight.
– I’m still wondering what the purpose of that medicine that’s supposed to remove CS’ ability to see ghosts will be doing. It feels like too major a Chekhov gun to just fade away. I also was wondering out of curiosity what would happen if someone other than CS took it – what if MW drank the medicine? Or one of the ghosts? Would anything happen?
– I also wonder whether the lifeline surgery plot point might come up again. It would be a cheap deus ex machina if that’s how MW can not pass on.
– I’ve read on some places that some viewers are not seeing the chemistry between CS and MW and I find that amusing – I recall one post saying their banter felt more like friends’ banter. But I enjoy their banter and figure banter between two people who love each other should be like between two friends and not two assholes who hate each other.
– What happens if MW does die and the hotel disappears? Was there an inn/hotel before she came into the picture? Will there be one after? Though I can suspend my disbelief, it feels weird to me the gods would create this hotel just because of MW and then let ghosts wander around after she’s gone.
@R, I’ve been thinking those exact thoughts too. The plot seems to convince us that they are bound to part ways. How it’s gonna happen is not yet really clear though for there are multiple possibilities.
To which direction will it go?
#1 CS seeing MW off (What the Flower Ma Go intends)
#2 MW vanishing forever by becoming a vengeful spirit (What the Black Ma Go expects)
#3 CS dying
#4 Both of them dying
#5 Both of them living
#6 Reincarnation of either CS or MW or both of them
Since there are still 4 episodes left, there’s still a slim chance for a happy ending. What I mean by “happy ending” is an ending favorable both to CS and MW or let’s say, both of them getting what they deeply desire, and that’s to be together physically in their present body, mind, soul and spirit in this present time. And why I say “slim chance” is that well, let’s face it, the story build-up is preparing us for a painful goodbye ever since. Sacrifices, paying the price, and letting go are all over the place.
Going back to the falling petals scene, could it mean that there’s an upcoming plot twist? It’s conveyed that the petals are not supposed to even reach the ground. But they did while the couple exchanged kisses.
One thing I observe as I watch this drama is that MW and even CS seem to play the part of being the “exception to the rule or the norm” like being somewhat a “chosen one”. Ma Go tied MW to the Moon Tree. Though it’s known as a curse to be living for too long and being unable to go to the afterlife, it’s done as a favor, right? It’s done that way to serve as a safety fence and not just a lonely prison. She was even given special powers. CS, on the other hand, was also specially picked by Ma Go. After 1300 years in the hotel, she finally sent someone to take care of MW, make her flower bloom, and then see her off.
Why? Why do they seem to get special attentions from the deities? And now that they are both in love, would they be getting another special favor from Ma Go?
I remember some lines from the previous episodes:
Ma Go to MW: I let you have your way because it was the first time that you ask nicely. (It’s about MW asking Ma Go if she already gave CS the medicine that will close his ghost eye.)
MW to CS: Why did you throw it? Don’t you know how precious it is? I even have to beg just to get it.
I’m curious at how the gods in this drama weigh things out.
Are they the type who can also change their mind? Will they adjust things depending on the way you ask your request? Like if you’re desperate enough then they can change their NO and MAYBE to a definite YES?
One more line:
CS to MW: Don’t worry. In my experience, it seems like the deities like me. (In Episode 9, when MW thought the Water God might want to make CS a human sacrifice)
CS to MW: This is why I love my name. I love how it means “YES” so it’s as if everyone agrees with me.
Will CS also beg for an outcome that he wants? And if he did, would the gods say YES?
*SIGH. This post is getting longer than planned. I’m thankful though to find a site that discuss interesting ideas over this drama. Precious! 🙂
Welcome to “Bitches ‘R’ Us”!! Thanks for delurking.
I wish I can comment longer but I’ve a morning flight to NYC again. 😡 I hope the other peeps can answer.
Yes! I agree with your comment on Hell site as a social commentary on hateful comments. I mentioned this earlier when I commented on IU and the Zeze brouhaha. I quoted something the Hong sisters had said in an interview 10? 15? years ago that people should be kinder in what they say to each other, and that actors and celebrities are people, too. Lol.
Now, do you see why they insisted on IU to play lead?
That’s another reason I griped about the Captain’s rehab. It’s in line with this “kinder, gentler” world that they espouse.
Yes, to the security. That’s obviously illogical. 🙄 The police captured a serial killer and stuck only one guard on him. He should have been in a private room, handcuffed or restrained somehow to the bed, with three officers on him. But then, hey!!! Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself in prison so what can I say?! 🤦♀️
I did comment in my First Impression post that Hong sisters start to lose a grip on the plot around Episode 12, and I was right on the dot. They’re fine with fantasy and world-building but a little bit stupid when the magical world begins to collide with the real world. They can’t keep up with reality. 😂
Yes, the medicine. I don’t know what they’ll do about it. It seems like CS wants the pain of remembering her so he’ll be fine with seeing ghosts all his life as a reminder of her — or something that cheesy. Will just have to wait and see.
I’ve issues with that lifeline surgery plot. Will discuss later.
Lol. I’ve read that there was a chemistry complaint. To be honest, their kiss didn’t move my romance/lust-o-meter and my insides weren’t a-quivering. I was underwhelmed.
But I blamed my kiss apathy on my bitter disappointment from the Captain’s rehab. 😂
Don’t know about the future of Hotel del Luna. It’s hard to see it under a different management bec the brand is Manwol. It can’t be franchised out like a McDonalds restaurant or a Hilton Hotel.
I took it for granted that MaGo 1 was the innkeeper before MW arrived. She can repossess HdL after MW’s passage.
Lastly, re the oppa-fangirling. I can tolerate them but to a limited degree. 🤣 But just like I don’t monetize this blog because I don’t want distraction from ads, I don’t want to be distracted by “Oppa is cute!” posts before getting to good comments. Besides Soompi, DB and mydramalist like to get revenues from their sites. The more hits/views/posters they get the better. I don’t care about these things so I can be exclusively bitchy if I want to.
Ok. Off to work.
@R and @Storm Moon – Falling Petals – I am puzzled by this. Usually I’d ignore the discrepancies but now … not so much LOL. Did we see petals that fell and disappeared before they reached the ground as well? I can’t seem to recall. Maybe MW’s and CS’s connection during the kiss and hug did alleviate the likelihood of MW’s disappearing without a trace.
When she said that it would be too sad for her to just be a petal … I took her going forward to give the kiss as her attempt to leave behind an added memory that would last to replace the petal if it vanished.
@Storm Moon – On the direction that the ending will go – I feel that you’ve covered most of he scenarios. There’s one more that @Barbrey is suggesting is possible with the Golden Bough allusion … MW goes off to the afterlife and returns without having to go through reincarnation. In which case I assume that CS who remains alive will happily re-unite with her. I hope the amnesia cliche won’t pop up here in the way it did with Goblin, ie I hope both CS and MW remember each other and their times together.
An obscure possibility to make it more likely that MW gets rewarded with a present life, is that she makes some fantastic self-sacrifice (possibly in Ep 15) which redeems her sufficiently. This one could tie in with meeting the much maligned Capt again and deciding to forgive him. Or having to deal mercifully with the Ji Won ghost who harms CS.
I am reminded that MG4 did warn that CS would have to pay an unfair and terrible price. Therefore we are forewarned that something tragic may befall CS.
@lovebanwon has a point about Capt CM and the firefly and the fact that it’s tied to the tree as well.
If the firefly is the spirit of CM hovering around the tree, then when tree disappears, we assume firefly will too. There were 3 other instances of the lone firefly that I can recall. The first time in the past with MW first meeting MG, the time when it hovered around the tree and the first flower started as a bud and the time it appeared to CS in the abandoned hotel. Since it’s made it’s 4th/5th appearance in the last 2 episodes, even following MW to the restaurant in Ep 11 and MG’s comments indicate who it’s supposed to be, I expect it to show up at least once in farewell before MW leaves. They’ve ensured that Chekov’s gun fired for all other times, so it will be so wrong for them to not give firefly a resolution.
@scholar-gentry Thanks for all your points which got me launched on more ideas that wouldn’t otherwise have surfaced
– commentary on hateful comments – Yes that thought occurred to me that the Hong Sisters were saying that online haters and trolls and generate a ‘real’ negative energy that harms those who are targeted while protecting the perpetrators.
– the medicine that’s supposed to remove the ghost seeing ability – I do expect to see that medicine pop up again. It was there as a fail-safe if all hell broke loose and CS really could not endure it. It makes the amnesia cliche more likely (sadly, because I do not like that trope). I mentioned a Goblin kind of ending above. I’m thinking that against his will, CS might end up taking the medicine and will end up not knowing that he’s waiting for MW in another life or something.
Shades of forewarning of this already took place with the past Mgr Candidate Moon Sook who was given the med by MG and in the heaps of medication that MW bought for CS. Also in the fact that laughably, the wrong cream was used on his face!!! LOL. Yes, without his knowing clearly and against his will if he knew, CS will probably end up taking the medicine.
– life line – This is an interesting thought. Would it crop up again and with regard to MW or to someone else? Might it be already taking place with how Ji Won’s vengeful spirit cannot be ended easily because the curses and negative energy from the online Helllo community add protection over him. I wonder if Grim Reaper will be able to prevail or whether some extra effort needs to be made to reduce the power of the curses first.
– chemistry – This depends on what people are looking for as chemistry. Relaxed conversation, truthfulness and trust, casual banter and jokey put downs look like great chemistry to me. The previously unsmiling MW is now able to laugh wholeheartedly, which I find a sign of great chemistry between the leads. I agree with comments that any close relationship starts with friendship and their frequent bickering and obvious concern for each other is right on the money for naturally moving from friendship into romance. The actual kisses and hugs are not the main thing but what comes before and after.
– the question of the hotel before and after MW – this was my question too … I asked about it somewhere and on DB more than once. I gather that there always might have been some guest house for the dead … at least it was in the myths that MW seemed to know and that MG accepted as a given. This particular Guest House of the Moon was however created and named for MW, and will disappear with her leaving. I’m assuming that other guest houses still abound somewhere. 🙂
@Storm Moon
– Why do they seem to get special attentions from the deities? – My original question was why MW was so specially treated by MG. Why she was given so much time and many chances. @Flying Tool, I believe it was, suggested that it was because she still had good in her despite her terrible sins, and that MG saw she could make some kind of restitution instead of remaining a vengeful, broken human, who might end up as a vengeful ghost.
Now on further hindsight, it could be that MG knew the true ramifications of MW’s hate and how deserved or undeserved it was for her to punish CM. Something might still be needed to be put right. Anyway, MW was chosen. MG intercepted her on the journey and the rest is history. MG had a plan and a goal.
Where CS is concerned, I was wondering about that first meeting with MG. Why did she want to give him a lily on his birthday. Was he in fact meant to die on his birthday? (Over here on BoD we’ve toyed with the idea of his being frail/weak-hearted = having real heart trouble that could kill him).
Subsequently he gets primroses (meaning faithlessness or more positively sweet memories?) each year on his birthday.
Might CS also have been given an unnaturally extended life (albeit not through surgery with life lines) so that he could carry out in living form, what would not have worked if he were a spirit. CS’s father who intercepted the lily meant for CS, was also meant to die, but he left his son in the future care of MW. Because CS remained a living being and weak, MW had to take care of him and protect him, which started forging their relationship.
In the end, they find that he too had been destined to take care of her and save her, so the mutual giving strengthened their bond, and enabled her to open up to loving another living being again.
In order for MG to get MW saved, and to fulfil her plan, she had to continually intervene in all her different ‘personas’ with both MW and CS separately.
Side note: I don’t think that the 3 of them (ie together) ever shared screen time. Interesting!
What transpired between a MG and either main character was only revealed to the other later, if at all. But MG succeeded in bringing MW and CS together in mutual care which saves both of them (for now!)
Petals and stuff from the tree
We find that after the lily, the next flower … MG places the flowers on his chest, and CS has visions of the past. (He has not done anything about the latest vision of CM and that hair stick!) He collects leaves from MW’s tree and now he claims that he will bear the burden of carrying all the fallen petals out of love.
Being forgotten and lost without a trace seemed to be one of the fears of MW, or ostensibly a cause for her sadness in leaving: that after 1,000 years, nothing of her would be left. If the petals disappeared before touching the ground, there would be no souvenirs.
But making the memories, in the kiss and the hug, seemed to save the petals from disappearing. Which makes possible CS’s claim that the weight of the petals would be a burden, but he would carry the memories of MW always, out of love.
So the amnesia trope had better not crop up! Heh! I was wondering if the medicine that makes his stop seeing ghosts also makes him forget. Moon Sook could remember but could not find the hotel. Might CS lose both memory and ghost sight?
I think the amnesia trope might rear its ugly head but it’s the mementos that will provide a link for both. Picture MW passing to the afterlife. CS forgets her but a branch of flowers remain, reminding him of her, and he gets sick until Ma go takes pity and sends him on a return trip to the afterlife. There he sees MW, maybe with the captain, but she doesn’t remember him at first either. That’s where the button comes in. It reminds her of him and her own memory comes back.
And so he brings her back. My guess! Based on myth and hints in the story. Although The First Love ghost is troubling in this respect. Still, I don’t believe she would choose the Captain over CS. She didn’t choose to go with the captain in the past even though she loved him; her love for CS is made of stronger stuff I think.
We might never get a rhyme or reason for what was unique about MW that made Ma go intervene. I will say she is based on a typical Greek hero, so usually that means she’s semi-divine, she’s descended from heroes or kings/queens, or she’s the future mother of a dynasty. We also might get an existential read, in that every human being can create their own Hotel del Luna. I’ll be interested to see what the Sisters do with this.
@GB, I do believe CS was supposed to die with those lilies. In some sense, I think it was his life that was used to make the tree bloom again, in order for his father to pick the flowers. CS is therefore marked as reborn already, someone who can cross between life and death, just like MW and the Moon Tree.
I know a lot of people see CS as someone to be sacrificed in the end perhaps, but I don’t because I see him as someone already sacrificed and reborn.
The firefly captain still has me confused because the clues and hints have pointed in too many directions. Then I wonder if subtitles were bad.
The Orion myth: besides brother Apollo (Yeon Woo), Diana (Man Wol) is associated with two men as companions. The first is Orion (Captain), a handsome womanizer originally chasing one woman (the princess) but happening upon Diana (Man Wol) and falling head over heels. They become the best of companions – hunting and drinking buddies – but Diana (Man Wol) remains chaste as is her nature. Eventually, however, her twin brother Apollo (Yeon Woo) gets jealous of Orion (Captain). He’s afraid she won’t remain chaste and that she’ll leave him. He tricks Diana (Man Wol) into shooting Orion (Captain) through the head – or killing him in our story because she believes he betrayed her. Orion does not become a firefly but does become a more substantial set of lights – the huge constellation Orion.
The twist, then, in this story, and I called this by the second episode, is that Yeon Woo might have played a role in his own death and MW’s tragedy. Myths are tricky references, though, so we will see.
Thanks @Barbrey. So much to think about. I like your take on CS being already the sacrificed and reborn soul who is unknowingly giving his life to MW. What a loop it is if CS’s life got the tree blooming to give the flowers that his father plucked but which were left behind … maybe the same flowers that MG finally ‘re-bloomed’ and put on CS’s chest?
I also like how you’ve stated the Orion myth and how it could tie in with the way our characters have been written.
More conjectures to abound!! Great Fun! 🤣
@GrowingBeautifully
“Subsequently he gets primroses (meaning faithlessness or more positively sweet memories?) each year on his birthday.”
MW is the one who sends them to him. They are Evening Primroses (Moon Flowers). It has occult/mystical links.
https://www.shushann.com/shop-online/time-of-the-moonflower/
@nrllee Thanks for the link.
I like what it says (partially paraphrased by me): “The Moonflower as a Symbol of Blossoming in Dark Times”
“… Moonflower is a nightflower that needs the dark to grow and blossom. … It is such a wonderful symbol for the growth potential of our soul and personality when we are faced with challenging and difficult periods in our lives.
We each have our own Moonflower story and may have grown and transformed from a dark time. Or we may have shut down and retreated from life. The future of our life often depends on what we (choose to) do … ” – The shut down and retreat was the case of MW.
In the ironic reversal, it was MW more than CS who needed the Evening Primrose reminder, but as usual she was not self-aware, as she gave to one who did not need it instead of keeping for herself.
Sorry my mistake. They are not Moon Flowers. 😂. They do have occult links though. I vaguely remember posting about them before. Links again back to Diana (?) and the Moon.
http://www.witchipedia.com/herb:evening-primrose
But I guess you could call them such because they bloom at night. And some do call them that colloquially. It’s confusing because there’s the Morning Glory flower which is also referenced as Moon Flower. So it depends on who you are talking to. 😂. Maybe it’s a collective term for flowers that bloom at night. In which case, the Evening Primrose would certainly fall into that category
LOL @nrllee Moonflower or Evening Primroses … I still like the analogy of the Moonflower though. For our purposes, let’s just consider the flowers MW had sent to CS for 21 years to be Moonflowers that she should have been sending to herself! 🙄 😁
@GrowingBeautifully Yes. 😂. I do recall when she decided what flowers to send him, she had a smirk on her face when she chose Evening Primroses…so it had to have a meaning.😳. She knew exactly what she was sending. Like an annual reminder to him that he belongs to her?
Thank you for the welcome!
@packmule3 Concerning the Zeze controversy, having little personal interest in Kdramas or Kpop is a double edged sword for me watching this since I don’t have any preconceptions, good or bad (Coincidentally, IU’s the only Kpop artist I have a full album of, and only one). But yes, celebrities = people too is something these fans (and people in general) should really consider.
On the kiss, maybe I didn’t feel much in my lust-o-meter since I’m a straight guy but I did feel the emotion-o-meter – the hug was more important to me than the kiss, since hugs in the story reinforce the bond between CS and MW. Despite being a dark story at times, their relationship as portrayed on screen is relatively chaste, which isn’t bad thing.
@GB: Good point on the medicine in regards to the previous manager as a potential preview of CS’ fate. It doesn’t appear like it caused amnesia, though CS’ medicine might be stronger.
On your point on the lifeline and the vengeful ghost, if we recall the episode with the imaginary spirit and the curse that MW conjured for Mira that CS absorbed, and the idea that we can change reality in a literal sense, that could factor into how MW and/or CS can remain together or try to do so out of desperation.
On the chemistry, I agree it seems it’s a buzzword for what people look for, and I guess some of the oppa fangirls see chemistry as your classic hot brooding asshole behavior. I like MW/CS’ chemistry and find it more relatable and realistic.
Lastly, amusingly in the episode 1 I thought at first that MG was actually the non-godlike previous owner of the hotel cursed to be there, who had learned her lesson after many years and passed the hotel onto MW.
———-
Finally, related to the discussion on potential ways the plot can resolve, I wanted to bring up something I forgot about when I typed up my thing last night – as you guys already know, parallels are huge throughout the series, whether it’s the ghost of the week paralleling the feelings MW/CS are going through, or simple jokes from previous episodes coming back. The one in episode 12 I liked was MW and CS’ flirting, which paralleled parts of Episodes 3/4 where MW was trolling CS about having a dirty dream about her, and later when MW teleported CS to her bed in a suggestive manner.
Therefore, it logically follows that we can predict aspects of the future episodes by predicting what sort of parallels might appear. The big one would be how the problems of the three main ghost employees are resolved – if these do get resolved, that is. For Scholar/Bartender Kim, I have no idea since his reason for staying seems the vaguest/weakest.
Seo-hee is clearer since like MW she has a grudge and risks becoming a vengeful spirit. I think Seo-hee won’t go all vengeful ghost on the last of her in-laws’ line, and turns to ash, as we already had the spycam ghost’s tragedy to show the consequences of that sort of thing. Instead, if Seo-hee can move on from her grudge, MW can see how she can move on from hers.
Bellhop is the clearest given he and intern are the B couple. Like MW and CS, Bellhop will likely move on soon leaving the intern behind, giving MW and CS a very clear preview of what they’re expecting will happen to them. On the other hand, if somehow Bellhop remains with intern, it could give CS/MW a potential ray of hope for the happiest ending. For instance, say Bellhop and Intern have to say goodbye forever in one scene – this will be THE closest thing MW/CS will witness to their own separation given they also have an emotional, personal connection to both.
(As an aside, I think the possibility that Bellhop’s identity might not be what it seems mirrors how intern has essentially taken the identity of her former bully – living another person’s life.)
Ji-won, the serial murderer puts a broken bottle to his neck and fake attempts to commit suicide. Then he chooses to become a powerful evil spirit (or is it ghost) to wreak vengeance. Seems to be a distorted reflection of MW.
MW kills in vengeance, kills to get away, offers to commit suicide by cutting her own throat for real to find the Guest House of the Moon. Lives for approximately 1300 years as something other than human with near god like powers (when it suits the plot) for some reason (I don’t think I get the HS’s vision for the moral axis of this drama, will see if I do at the end) and is about to go to the afterlife.
So looks like we’re going to get a battle between MW that is and the MW that could be? With CS and the staff as the souls at risk… I wonder how many will be sacrificed to test MW?