This is for WEnchanteur and the other lurkers.
– It takes two pieces of flutes to travel back in time, why does Lee Gon do it when Tae Eul didn’t travel with him all the way to the end?
Did you mean this moment?
The director didn’t show us a split screen but while Lee Gon was crossing his portal, in the parallel world, TaeEul was doing this.
To understand what’s going in Episode 16, you must understand what happened in Episode 14 and Episode 15.
In Episode 14, Lee Gon and Lee Lim did NOT travel together. Their starting points were different. Lee Gon was in Korea, returning to his kingdom. Lee Lim was in Corea, returning to the Republic of Korea. However, they (coincidentally or not) entered the portal and crossed their respective No Man’s Land (NMLand) at the same TIME.
Inside this NMLand, their halves of the flute sounded. They were probably calling out to each other. Lee Gon then realized that Lee Lim was in the same SPACE as he was.
LG: (thinking) It’s Lee Lim!
Lim: (thinking) Is that you, my dear nephew?
And they started running. Lee Lim made a U-turn.
That’s when the Yoyo Kid started explaining.
Intermission:
This was Yoyo Boy outside the Eosu bookstore in Corea.
And this was Yoyo boy in Korea. He was in Korea when he met JiHun’s mom and talked with her about the fates of the King and the traitor.
We know that the JiHun’s mom hadn’t crossed over to the kingdom yet, and she died in Korea without stepping a foot in Corea. She and Yoyo Boy must have had an accidental or “fated” encounter.
To JiHun’s mom, the Yoyo Kid appeared to be narrating the event as if he was an eyewitness. She said, “You’re telling the story as if you’ve seen it.”
To me, the Yoyo Kid’s story could be one of two things:
a. He’d seen this before in previous loops. Lee Gon and Lee Lim only appeared to make “new” choices when they were in fact only repeating something they’ve done before. They were unconsciously repeating the same mistake.
b. Yoyo Kid was seeing something Lee Gon and Lee Lim were PREDESTINED to do. Even if Lee Gon and Lee Lim were doing this for the FIRST time, Yoyo Kid knew what they were about to do even BEFORE they did it. Yoyo Kid was fate; he knew in advance how things would happen.
/End of intermission.
Yoyo Kid: Did you know? When the Manpasikjeok becomes one inside the gate, both the axes for the time and space simultaneously form inside the gate. When the Manpasikjeok becomes whole, it takes you to the moment when you wish to save yourself.
JiHun’s mom: So where were the two of them taken from there?
Yoyo Kid: Both the king and the traitor were taken to the same point in time. The night of the treason.
JiHun’s mom: Why?
Yoyo Kid: Because the king wished to save both worlds from the traitor, and the traitor wished to save his foolish self from failing the couple.
And the flute brought them back an HOUR before the coup.
That was how, in Episode 14, Lee Gon and Lee Lim traveled back to 1994.
Now, in Episode 15, Lee Gon wanted to duplicate the same event and travel back to 1994 to correct everything once and for all. But he discovered that he couldn’t do it, if he was in possession of the two halves of the flute. Whether Lee Gon wanted it or not, Lee Lim must be part of this time travel because his flute was stained with his blood.
LG: I cannot hear the flute. The Manpasikjeok isn’t crying.
LL: You have eternity and infinity in your hands now. Don’t be absurd. Of course, it’s not crying. It’s whole again at last. Forget about the treason. We should go inside. Just the two of us.
LG: It’s not crying. If it doesn’t cry, I can’t go back to the night of the treason. I must make the crack again.
ShinJae: You mean you have to give him back his piece?
LL: I don’t need it anymore. It’s finally whole again. Eternity and infinity are waiting for us in there, and you’re just going to use that to go back to the night of the treason?
LG: I don’t need eternity and infinity. You will never see nor own that place.
LL: You fool. Fine. Try it, then. You can ask or order me to go and die. You can open your own door, but you’d need someone to escort me past my door. Who would it be? Who will you order to die in there?
Lee Lim was saying that the portal wouldn’t just open for anybody. It opened for LL and Lee Gon because their blood had been shed on their half of the flute on the night of the treason. LL was saying that they could get his door to open but he wouldn’t walk through it. Of course, he didn’t anticipate that Lee Gon had two men willing to die for him.
LG: Shut up. You have not transcended death. You’ve postponed punishment from the gods. With your taunting added, I’ll make sure you die a miserable death.
Yeong: I’ll stay and go with him.
ShinJae: No I’ll go. Do I just have to go with this jerk?
ShinJae was speaking with his usual macho, tough guy appeal. He was saying, “What?! Is that all I need to do? Just go with Lee Lim and make him open the portal on the scheduled time, and cross the path with him? No problem.”
Yeong: Your Majesty, I’ll get rid of the traitor with my own hands.
ShinJae: I told you many times. Get lost and go to your own world. Give me the piece. When should I go?
Lee Gon had the utmost trust in SinJae. He believed — no! he had faith in ShinJae. He didn’t doubt that SinJae would be standing at the Korean portal of Lee Lim, ready to walk in, at their agreed-upon schedule. That was why he could ride his horse through the portal without hesitation, according to plan.
However, two things changed.
One, Yeong was waiting for him at the Corea bamboo grove and insisted on coming along with him.
Two, TaeEul begged ShinJae for his half of the flute and insisted on going instead of him. TaeEul knew that Lee Lim was required to open his side of the portal, and she wanted to be the one to cross over with Lee Lim.
Lee Gon didn’t know that she stood there instead of ShinJae. In fact, I don’t think Lee Gon will ever find out that TaeEul was inside the portal instead of ShinJae because TaeEul wanted to skip the explanation.
LG: But how do you still remember me when the two worlds flowed differently?
TE: Let’s skip that. I’ve also been through many things myself.
So, let’s recap then.
When the flute becomes one inside the gate, it can travel time and space. That’s the ONLY prerequisite for the flute to activate its time and space travel: it had to be whole inside the portal.
There was no requirement that Lee Gon and Lee Lim/TaeEul had to enter or exit together.
It just so happened that Lee Lim’s and Lee Gon’s met inside the NMLand, they both wanted to go to the night of the treason so they could save themselves.
– Time travel can only take place at the point where the flutes were cut off, not before. However, they arrive before the flute is broken. Nonsense. And if that was the case, we might as well go back a week and take the flute before anything else. We can even go and kill Lee Lim in his bed, we can even go and kill Lee Lim’s grandfather! Because Yoyo Kid said something? Good, he can say anything in this case, it happens.
Nonsense, WEnchanteur. Where did you get that idea that they MUST arrive AFTER the flute was cut?
All the Yoyo Kid said was, “Both the king and the traitor were taken to the same point in time. The night of the treason.” But there was no stipulation that they shouldn’t arrive before the flute was sliced into two.
In fact, in Episode 14, it was shown that Lee Lim was at the palace an hour before the treason took place.
As for killing Lee Lim in bed, or his grandfather to prevent the treason…
Really, WEnchanteur? Really??
I hope you’re just spouting off nonsense. You see, I already blocked a couple of newbies who suggested the same idea.
Let’s be clear about this: Lee Gon can’t go back in time to KILL Lee Lim before Lee Lim committed regicide.
Think of this this way —
I travel to the future and discover that Person X become a mass-murderer in 2025. Do you think that I can invite him over to my house, and put a gun on his head, saying, “Hey! For what you’ll do in 2025, I’m going to kill you right now,” then pull the trigger?
Answer: NO! Hell no.
That’s homicide. My action is criminal, immoral, unethical and monstrous. I cannot kill an individual for a crime he may POSSIBLY commit in the future. Sure, I may or may not have removed a potential, future, immoral monster, but, in the process, I DEFINITELY created an real, actual, current, immoral monster to take his place: me.
Do you get it?
Anybody who’ll suggest the same thing after this post will be blocked for mental insanity. 😈
– What’s the use of taking the risk of getting stuck in the in-between world, when if Tae Eul goes out in 1994 with Lee Lim:
1) she will be able to kill Lee Lim easily (it’s amazing that her beloved lover Lee Gon never told her about his adventures and the story of the objects which no longer works).
2) she is sure not to lose her memories.
lol. I must give Sofrito an A because he/she got it. He/she wrote:
Thanks, Packmule! I didn’t realize TE was waiting at the gate to kill both LLs as a failsafe until my second viewing. Made me feel dumb and also made TE seem much more clever haha. And I like that waiting (very Zero the Hero) was the smartest move – it helped me feel better about her not actively fighting at the night of treason. The thing TE wanted the most was to be with LG and stop him from being lonely. But she put the success of the mission first. It didn’t end up being necessary because LG got the flute, but I love the idea that she was ensuring a good outcome even in the midst of a lot of pain.
Bitches like us should STOP thinking that the best heroines are those who fight alongside the guys like “G.I. Jane” or “Rambo.” That’s limiting the avenues a woman can take to defend herself and her loved ones. Frankly, for me, the best heroines are those who can outwit their enemies while expending the least amount of fuss and energy, and eschewing unnecessary “heroics.”
This is so overrated. It actually feeds on men’s — rather than women’s — fantasies.
To me, TaeEul was at the right spot.
She would have just been a big nuisance had she followed Lee Gon in 1994. She didn’t know the exact whereabouts of Lee Gon in 1994. She didn’t know the layout of the Cheongjongo. Lee Gon would have worried about her safety when he should have been focused on the mission.
I don’t know if you got this, WEnchanteur but, to me, there were three possible outcomes to Lee Gon’s mission.
A. Lee Gon’s plan succeeded; he acquired the whole flute. Old portals closed off.
B. Lee Gon’s plan failed; Lee Lim acquired the whole flute. Old portals closed off.
C. Lee Gon’s plan half-succeeded. LL and LG both end up again with half a flute. Lee Lim would escape to Republic of Korea again. TaeEul was counting on Lee Lim (that is, the new 1994 version) to enter this portal and cross paths with him. She was already with the 2019 Lee Lim because that was the portal between the two parallel worlds of Corea and Korea.
She was waiting for this 1994 Lee Lim right there. She was Lee Gon’s LAST line of defense should he fail to stop Lee Lim from entering the portal. She would block Lee Lim before he crossed over to 2019.
– Why didn’t Lee Gon offer her to come, already, instead of giving her a tearful farewell? For a supposed genius, it was the obvious solution, the sure way for Tae Eul to be subjected to the same conditions as him, to keep her memory.
Bringing her to 1994 Corea with him would have been pointless.
If he failed his mission, he would either be a dead child in 1994 or a dead adult in 1994. And if he died there, she would be stuck there in 1994.
Bringing her to 2020 Corea would have been pointless, too, because he wasn’t there.
So, no.
TaeEul was better off with her own people than be stranded in 1994 Corea or 2020 Corea where she should’ve been all alone. Like Lady Noh.
– Why did Lee Lim say that he and Tae Eul would get stuck in the in-between world, when Tae Eul would cease to exist. And where does he get this makeshift idea that they would stay there forever when they don’t have a flute? Lee Lim isn’t very smart either. If his old self takes the flute, the two previous flute pieces disappear, and this in-between world ceases to exist, since it is the passage between the two worlds that Lee Gon wants to close.
Again, if Lee Gon’s plan worked and he got the flute, he assumed these two things to happen:
1. 2019 Lee Lim’s broken half would disappear. All portals opened by both broken halves would be lost, because the whole flute opened a new portal. Lee Lim and TaeEul were stuck inside the NMLand.
This was Lee Lim’s portal opened by the half flute, as shown in Episode 15.
This was the portal opened by the whole flute. It was red in color, double the size of the old portal, and in the opposite direction.
2. Lee Gon would restore order, and TaeEul’s memories would be erased.
He knew that as soon as he realized his scar was gone. He had successfully reset the whole situation caused by Lee Lim’s greed for the flute.
But he also remembered TaeEul’s words, “If our worlds flow differently from the present, then I won’t be able to remember you. Then I’ll live without knowing you.”
It’s obvious then that TaeEul had the worst scenario should Lee Gon accomplish his mission. She would be stuck in NMLand with Lee Lim with no idea who Lee Lim was, and what she was doing there.
And yet, she walked into the NMLand.
LL: So, what’s your plan?
TE: I will wait until Gon stops you in the past and puts everything back in its place. If he fails, I will stop you.
LL: But if my nephew restores order, your memories of him will be gone.
TE: That’s why I’m heartbroken. All those radiant memories are engraved deep in my heart.
LL: (smirking) You can’t shoot here. Here, everything is at a standstill.
TE: How do you know if no one’s ever tried to fire a gun here before?
The gunfight ensued in the palace. Then, both halves of the flute disappeared.
LL: Why did the Manpasikjeok…I must have obtained the whole Manpasikjeok. Finally, I got my hands on the whole Manpasikjeok. If mine is gone, the other half that my nephew had is probably gone, too. What now? This means that Lee Gon can never come back. And you’re stuck here with me for eternity.
He was full of shit. He didn’t know what was going on. He was guessing, too, just like her. But he was trying to psych her out, to scare her. But remember, this was TaeEul, the brave. She didn’t scare easily.
Meanwhile outside NMLand, Lee Gon left Yeong at the CheongJongo to go after Lee Lim. The Manpasikjeok’s great portal opened. But Lee Gon stopped Lee Lim.
LL: I suppose my dear nephew has failed seeing how I’m still alive and well.
TE: No, you’re not. If Gon has failed, you won’t be for long.
LL: (laughing) I must say it’s quite entertaining to watch how foolishly hopeful you are. But I’ll no longer tolerate your insolence.
See that? He was only guessing that Lee Gon failed because he was still “alive and well.” But she shot down that, saying he shouldn’t be quick to assume that Lee Gon failed just because he was “alive and well.”
Why?
She was going to kill him anyway. He wouldn’t be “alive and well” for long.
I also think Lee Lim had forgotten that his 1994 self was “fated” to kill him. Even if Lee Gon ACTUALLY failed his mission AND TaeEul failed to kill him, too, he wasn’t going to be “alive and well” for long, anyway. His 1994 version wouldn’t allow him to power-share the flute and would eventually kill him, too.
But TaeEul broke the cycle and shot and killed Lee Lim herself.
– As a proof, time start again there, and the in-between world ends up self-destructing. The two worlds of the flute pieces merge at the end, and the red balloons invade the world of the pictures.
No invasion of the balloons. The pictures disintegrated with Lee Lim. The balloons were still there but now they could float. It didn’t matter because that causeway wasn’t accessible anymore.
– And why do they stay in the in-between world so long after the flute has been retrieved by the other Lee Lim? Misplaced flashback? Wrong chronology of the narration? Quick answer: a rotten scene with Shin-Jay intercalated at the wrong time. Answer may be incomplete. How can there be cause and effect between the events of 1994 and this place from a temporal point of view already? It would have to be decided that they are “almost” at the same date, next to the exit of the portal (which we never see), and that the time differential corresponds to the fact that they are very slightly in the future.
Grrrr…. You haven’t been paying attention, WEnchanteur, have you? Why do you think we’ve been calculating time?
1 min in NMLand = 2 hours in the real world
To you, it seemed as if Lee Gon had been fighting for so long and Lee Lim had been in possession of the flute for so long.
But 3 minutes for TaeEul and Lee Lim inside the NMLand would only mean 6 hours for Lee Gon outside the NMLand.
We were shown TaeEul killing 2019 Lee Lim inside NMLand
BEFORE Lee Gon killed 1994 Lee Lim outside in the bamboo grove.
But it’s possible that these events happened simultaneously except the director didn’t do a split screen and simply showed TaeEul killing 2019 Lee Lim first, and Lee Gon slaying 1994 Lee Lim next.
– For some illogical reason, the pictures are destroyed, not the red balloons, while the whole dimension is collapsing. But it is also true, that we have no way of knowing what will become of this place, if it will be a strange world with time, or if it will disappear as it is supposed to because of the disappearance of the two pieces of flute.
I’m not sure if logic is pertinent here so as much as justice.
The pictures were destroyed — not because it’s “logical” thing — but because it was the RIGHT thing to happen. It was “just” consequence for Lee Lim’s destruction. There should be no trace of who he was and what he did after the chaos he did to the parallel worlds.
As for the balloons? They didn’t pop. They floated.
And to me, they’re irrelevant, too. What happened to the pictures and balloons are inconsequential. The important thing here is that Lee Gon finally had the Manpasikjeok.
Don’t waste your brain cells dwelling on the balloons.
– Why is the body of the other Lee Lim disintegrated? Note that even if it had been the Lee Lim of the past who dies and then the Lee Lim of the future who disintegrates, it would have been very bad too.
In Episode 14, although we weren’t shown what happened to Lee Lim’s body, it should have been obvious that it disappeared. The only body found then was the washed-up body of Lee Lim’s Korean doppelganger. Everything must happen in the same way that it previously did… without varying much from the previous loop.
In Episode 16, we were shown Lee Lim’s body disappearing along with the pictures and his NMLand.
Why not?
Once he died, he was no longer a “living” thing and his corpse should evaporate like all non-living things in that space.
Besides, it was poetic and cosmic justice that nothing of him remained in this world.
– How can Tae Eul survive this cataclysm? By what magical operation does she find herself elsewhere in another time?….
WEnchanteur, have you been watching the show? 🙂 I think you’re frustrated because you don’t get it.
This is very simple. She never stepped foot in Corea 1994 so why would she end up there? NMLand disappeared, and she was in Korea 2020. She was like Alice in Wonderland waking up from a dream. She asked the bystanders where she was to make sure.
TaeEul: Where am I? Is this the Republic of Korea? What’s the date today?
Bystander: Yes, this is the Republic of Korea. And today is April 25, 2020.
TaeEul: I’m a police officer. Can I use your phone to make a quick call? (calling on the phone) Chief Park? Chief Park. It’s me, TaeEul. Where’s Jangmi? What about Detective Shim and Sinjae?
And she realized what happened: SinJae is gone. Jangmi wasn’t there, but Detective Shim was there.
For her, “Only a week had passed.”
This could be interpreted in many ways.
It could mean that she was NMLand was less than 3 hours, because when she woke up 7 days had passed. Or it could mean that since meeting Lee Gon, only a week had passed.
TaeEul’s voiceover continued, “The world seemed unchanged, yet some things had unfolded differently. I was still a lieutenant. And I still tried to do something nice for my dad once a month. And I lived everyday with my memories of him still intact, in a world where he or Sinjae no longer exists.”
To me, however, the most important aspect of this “cataclysm” is NOT how she returned to Korea 2020 BUT how she managed to retain her memory. Everybody expected her to forget everything with the reboot, including the Yoyo Kid. Lee Gon himself was resigned to starting all over with her.
LG: So, I had to find my way back again, which meant I had to open every single door in the universe. That’s why it took me so long. And I didn’t think you’d remember me even if I did find you.
TE: Yet you still kept looking for me?
LG: Even if you forgot all about me, I still wanted to see you. I was going to tell you again if you had forgotten me. That I’m the King of the Kingdom of Corea, and that my name, which is not supposed to be called, is Lee Gon.
Of course, we could credit the Yoyo Kid who decided to leave them alone. He didn’t cut the red string. But I would also like TaeEul herself for her intact memory. Just like her seeds grew, defying all expectations, her memories thrive, baffling the Yoyo Kid and the Yoyo Bully Teenager, because of her —
she threatened God, remember? lol.
TE: It wasn’t a prayer, it was a threat. I told Him to stop being so harsh. We didn’t do anything that bad. I asked if we really have God’s blessing.
– And if the process of merging memories is systematic, why doesn’t Lee Gon merge with the old Lee Gon who went back in time to the beginning of the drama?
Who said he didn’t? It’s possible that all the LG’s merged into this one. We simply weren’t shown.
Seriously. One time-loop was enough to throw people for a loop so I’m glad that KES didn’t belabor this whole circular time. She wrote about the relationships of Lee Gon and TaeEul with their friends, Yeong, Lady Noh, SinJae, Eunsub, and Nari. And because she did that, Lee Gon and TaeEul turned out more sympathetic as characters than Lee Lim.
And that’s another message here. Lee Lim wanted to gain eternal time and infinite worlds but he didn’t realize that no matter what he did, his world was still as suffocating as a cage built for one. At the end of the day, he was still a lonely and broken man.
There was one thing that threw me in a loop. When LG tried to find TE at different times, I wondered why TE didn’t remember those visits (ep 16). When LG went back the first time, she gained new memories of his visits as he was trying to reach her. That was the only hole I saw in ep 16, but I suppose they brushed that underneath the rug to make it more dramatic.
John, she didn’t remember those visits because they were in different parallel worlds. As in NOT Republic of Korea but in entirely other worlds like say…Koreastan, United Korea, Korealand, Joseonia, or even South Korea.
Do you get it? They’re in parallel worlds OTHER than Republic of Korea. TaeEul wasn’t even TaeEul in those parallel worlds. 🤣 So TaeEul would NOT have memories of him visiting her there.
It’s like when they accidentally visited another parallel world with a tyrant king who looked like Lee Gon….
When Lee Gon visited her in Episode 14, and gave her new memories, there were only TWO worlds connected and accessible: the Kingdom of Corea and the Republic of Korea. After the Manpasikjeok was connected, there were multiple worlds open to them. And those worlds could be in Republic of Korea but in different times. Or totally new alternate, parallel worlds like Koreanesia. lol.
Got it? 🙂
packmule3, this is the reason why I am a fan of yours 🙂 Thank you for putting so much clarity & for saying what’s on your mind bravely.
I enjoyed bitches-plaining episode 16. Hope we could also have a write up on the ending 🙏🏼 Would love to know your take on things. Did they get married? Have children? I would love to think at some point in their long lives, they did.
Thanks @pkml3 (I was amused by your ‘Grrrr’). Have a cookie and coffee after all that bitchsplaining 🍪 ☕ or maybe you’d prefer some wine and cheese 🧀 🍷 😁
Dear @Packmule3, personally I don’t agree with you on some things in this post, but you directly said that disagreeing in that particular point would means direct termination… and I consider myself wise enough NOT to mess with the proverbial lioness in her own home XD . Anyway it was a wonderful experience to be with you and the other Forumites in this ride and hope to be united with you again in another viewing =D .
It is important to say that the three persons that seems to remember all the story are directly attached to Lee Gon and his plight, but also were involved directly with those events and wanted to keep near him whatever could happen. I didn’t understand that part where Tae-Eul was Lee Gon’s last line of defense and all the heartbreak it implied, for if Lee Lim appeared through no man’s land it would mean her love was dead. And that is what Lee Lim tried to use against her. Happily she attached herself to the rule “don’t worry about things before they happen” and kept her cool.
@GrowingBeautifully, hope you have lots of good cheese and wine 😉 . I loved this almost as much as I loved “Hotel del Luna”
@Wechanteur, loved your rants all the way!!!. Personally I felt nourished by your logic and cinematic eye, but for me K-Dramas are an educational experience about human nature so usually delve into character’s actions and decisions… and character consistency =). Anyway I wanted to tell you that your point of view vastly enriched mine, even if I didn’t personally call you (shoutout???) through this run. Hope to coincide with you again!!!
Many thanks for you all =D
Much appreciated if you could insert your thoughts on the ending. I love the sweetness of its ending. Really the best ending in kdrama history so far. It makes me touching and piled up with emotions to see the wrinkled hands and I see that as the most beautiful, romantic and simplest ending that eventually together, loving each other tirelessly no matter whatever life throws at them for today and all eternity. I love it that it implies them having kids and heirs for KOC too (at least for me) because after all Lee Gon is still the king and that is his responsibilty for throne’s succession.
I love it too that it indicates them getting old and that time loop is now stopped. One of saddest things in life is to stuck in time. So I am super happy to see that scene 🖤
Kim Eunsook really brings out the best of Lee Minho and Kim Goeun. And I love to see that both actors are Kim Eunsook’s favorites in Korean entertainment industry 🖤🖤🖤
That Jung Taera scene was a dedication for Kim Goeun as she did not won the Best Actress during Baeksang Arts Award for Goblin. So Kim Eunsook arranged that Daesang winner scene for her. How cute and lovely is that 😢 KES showed her eternal love to Kim Goeun, one of the sweetest thing in real life 🤗
Her love for Lee Minho also appealed as she once said that she made this character simply for Lee Minho 🌟
Three powerful names in K-Entertainment industry. Kim Eun Sook, Lee Minho and Kim Goeun. How powerful is that ??? 😎😎😎
Btw, i am speaking gibberish now kekekee, tell us your thought on the ending juseyo 👉👈
Hello my dear FGB4877, LOL provoking the lioness. I’m actually curious as to what you are disagreeing with. Can you whisper it in my ear/email? (growingbeautifully88@gmail.com)
To me, the last line of defense was that regardless of whether LG was alive or not, if LL was still alive at any time and came before TE, she was going to kill him, to prevent the evils that he had done. With her knowledge of what 2020 LL had done, it was obvious that if his past self survived, he was going to perpetuate the evils. So, if 2020 LL did not disappear, she was definitely going to kill him, and if 1994 LL popped into NMLand, she was also going to kill him. That was the last line of defense before 1994 LL could for the first time enter ROK.
Her decision was not made on condition that LG would survive, rather, she wanted to make sure that alive or dead, his great attempt to stop LL would not be in vain/go to waste. I do not know if she could guess what her own situation would end up being if LG failed, but like you say, fortunately she is brave and does not worry about things before they happen.
I was saying somewhere that LG, realising that change in history had crept into his plans, ditched his mathematical way of thinking and ran after JY in the liberal arts way… ready to improvise and wing it. TE for her part, also had gone into it like the liberal arts person she is, not knowing for sure what would turn out, but certain that she had to be ‘with’ LG in his last stand against LL.
🧀🧀🧀🧀🍷🍷🍷🍷 No problem at all @FGB4877 come on over and we can talk about both Hotel (de la) Luna and TE:EM. 🤓 😄
@FGB4877 Hmmmm I am curious to know too! But I am going to try hazarding some counter opinions here. @packmule, don’t send me for a beheading ok? (I’ve finished and mailed you my space time graphs, please accept that as a peace offering lol) @GB, can I appoint you as my unbreakable sword, please protect me against the wrath of the Queen! :p
1. You mentioned that LG wanted to duplicate the same event, and that he discovered that he couldn’t if he was in possession of 2 halves of the flute. I think this is true, and not true. Not true, because with both halves LG actually has access to eternity and infinity: all points in time and all points in space (different worlds). This means he should be able to get back to the night of treason. The only issue is, it would take him way too much time for him to find the correct gate within the inter dimensional space since it would be him riding for ages checking gates by trial and error. So because he was short on time, it’s true that using both halves together wasn’t useful then, and it was more efficient if he just re-enacted what happened during the first return to the night of treason. However, after finishing the events in Cheonjongo, LG would have had to return to his present time with the injured JY using the whole flute. I wonder how long he took to find the correct gate!
2. I think the sequence of TE killing 2020 LL, before LG kills the 1994 LL was intended. It was not simultaneous. If LG had killed the 1994 LL at the same time as TE shooting the 2020 LL, it would mean that we should see the 2020 LL vanishing as he was shot by TE, since killing the 1994 version means the 2020 version should no longer exist. If the 1994 LL was killed before the 2020 version, TE wouldn’t have had to shoot LL at all, he would have just disappeared! So it was important that TE shot at the 2020 LL first (we know this will not affect the 1994 version, just like how 1994 LL killing 2020 LL didn’t affect the flow of things). This way, she gets to kill one version of LL, while LG kills the other. Both of them work together to end this nightmare together, in 2 different spaces.
😄 @JT7 I don’t fancy myself a pain inducing ⚔️ sharp object, however, I don’t being your Unbreakable Door 🚪. Say your peace and pass through the door way into Beautiful Growth Land. You’ll be safe among pretty blooming orchards where fruits will avoid falling on your head. LOL.
Yes, I agree with your take on the difficulty that LG faced trying to get back to his own time in Corea with an injured JY. Hopefully latter was wearing his trusty bullet proof vest and avoided the worst of the bullet.
Also yes to the logic of 1994 LL and 2020 LL. I got myself all mixed up until I watched a 3rd time and saw that it really was the 2020 LL that disappeared. So that’s fine too.
Don’t see any reason for you to fear the wrath of @pkml3. I’m sure she appreciates thoughtful points and new angles in any argument. Still you can come in 🚪 and have tea ☕ 🍵 in the garden 🌷 🌻 🌳 🌴 anytime!!
I’m so tired of this drama that answering is painful for me. I’ve already moved on and I’ve lost all desire to go back into this mess.
The drama has already given me what was important: the mistakes to avoid if you want to produce an effective script. If the narrative had been good, this article wouldn’t even have a purpose.
I had started to write an answer point by point, but finally I gave up, because it still raises tons of other questions, unanswered speculations, illogicalities or reflections on the relevance of an ethical choice when the past has already been written in an immutable way. It is endless, and after reflection, it would only produce a commentary even longer than your article. I’ve wasted enough of my time on the content itself, and nothing I could add at this level would be of any real interest, except to continue the interactive online game that this drama has become. New viewers won’t even get the chance to experience that, and that will make it even harder for them to buy into the drama.
I would like to say that reading your explanations gave me a little pleasure because you answered a few points, but I don’t have the head for it anymore. My memory is already half emptied of the drama, a natural effect due to its narrative mode, in addition to my disinterest now.
I thank you for the effort, and your perseverance in getting involved in this finished drama. And I hope that I will have the opportunity to read your comments for another drama that I’m watching too, and that deserves all of this. A drama in which the details and explanations you give serve to show how this enhances the emotional impact of a story that is good on its own and well told, instead of plugging the gaps in the scenario. Not a wobbly thing where the smallest detail that is hidden and easy to miss is of vital importance subject to endless and diverse speculation, asking to see X number of times each episode, when the motivation for pleasure is not even present.
Killing the grandfather was a joke, of course. 😉
Thank you love this post. If only this is translated in every language possible so all those who did not get the story will finally be able to understand and stop the never ending questions.
Once again @packmule3 Thank you for bitchessplaining parts of ep 16.
I had a good snort and guffaw when I saw your wiener gif.The doggie’s pursed muzzle was priceless! I am sure @WEchanteur had a laugh too.
@Luna Lee I agree and like what you said about KES giving Kim Go Eun the Jung TaeRa scene. She was so cute acting out that tipsy scene! I am also waiting like you to see if @packmuke 3 would have any last thoughts on TKEM and about it’s ending. Much as I like them forever dating until old age I feel sad that there is no Queen in the end.
@Carolstar,
Yeah, it was fun. I feel like a lurking dog now. 😀
Warf!
If my plot-hole speculation and the answers here may have helped people, that’s fine. For it was already not easy to consider these questions that many other people are asking themselves. There’s more on the list if I remember.
Some of Packmule3’s answers are convincing, but others are not. This means that drama fans are not done wandering around the labyrinth! I’ll do as the drama writer did: I add nothing more, it’s up to you to find out what.
Frustrating, isn’t it? ^^
I’m torn between two directions.
The drama has always been confusing, so it’s only natural that the ending should be confusing too.
Or
It was a drama planned for a second season. So the first 10 episodes set the stage. Alas, this is unconvincing and already too confusing. In the end, the second season will never happen. And there, revision of the script, the screenwriter is obliged to conclude as quickly as possible. Events are accelerating, leaving even less time for their readability. The plotlines of various characters such as the PM Koo or Lady Noh end up in the void.
I have a vague recollection that the last episodes weren’t written, I don’t know where I read that.
I’m going back to work now ! 😉
>>Comment deleted and transferred to the blog<< The Happy Ending -pm3
@packmule: Ah that does make sense! I guess some of us just wanted a royal wedding scene really badly, to be served up dates across worlds just didn’t measure up haha!
@GB: Thank you! I’d borrow one of LL’s extra umbrellas in case of falling fruit. 😉 Speaking of JY and his bulletproof vest… I just had this sudden thought: Since LG kills LL, even if the 2020 JY dies, he would be ok in the end since his 1994 pouty child self would be sleeping safe in bed during the final play out of the events on the night of treason.
@JT7 LOL That’s true about Jo Yeong! I forget he was that mop headed kid who burst into tears over LG’s crying. If he’d been killed, then the JY with LG in 2020 would not have the memories of ES and ROK. Since he did, he obviously didn’t die on that Night of Treason, and was one of the few who was allowed to retain his memories.
It was so obscure, what Fate was talking about as he/she played with that yo-yo. Fate was surprised that the red string did not break… instead it had ‘sprouted’ (ie had become stronger? Had become more alive?) So in that tunnel when Fate was in 2-minds about it… as child or as teenager, the thought must have been: ‘To cut the ties of memory or not, to cut the ties of love or not.’?? (Or rather, because the love of TE and LG should not have happened originally, it was necessary when cutting 1 thing that it affected the memories as well.)
It does make sense: if by rights iterations of SJ and Luna/TE were meant originally to get together, then Fate, by introducing TE into the events of LG’s life, had changed the story (upended its own original plans for SJ and TE!).
So Fate was in a situation, wondering if he/she should get the story back to it’s original ‘setting’ (by cutting the string) or allow the aberration to continue.
Fate let the string remain, hence, the weird way of living ‘together’ by LG and TE. As long as they didn’t upset the balance between the worlds, Fate allowed them to grow old and continue being together ‘almost’ eternally.
In the process, JY too gets to keep his memories. It makes sense.
Howdy! You must have borrowed the magic flute so you can be in your own ‘space and time’ with no interruptions when you did this but I felt your bitches-plaining meter reading was still high. LOL.
I just liked that LG and TE were still together in fighting evil at all costs right at the end. Glad too that they had help from Shinjae, JY and Lady Noh.
I said I wasn’t convinced by your explanations on certain points.
I’ll at least give one, because I had a nice idea on top of that.
Since I had already made good progress in writing this point, I might as well post it.
And that could be useful to you if there’s a logical flaw.
To try to explain more clearly than before, I will use “win” and “lost” comparisons.
First situation.
You don’t understand why I think Tae Eul should go with Lee Gon in 1994.
There’s a scene where they’re saying goodbye. The conclusion of this is that if Lee Gon gets the whole flute, he will have to search for Tae Eul all over the universe. A seemingly impossible task. Losing situation (Lost).
Situation when Lee Gon is in 1994, according to Tae Eul’s position.
Tae Eul stays in 2020.
– Lee Gon dies: LOST/WIN (Tae Eul stays in her time as compensation)
– Lee Gon loses + half-flute: WIN (he has to go 26 years forward again)
– Lee Gon wins + full flute: LOST (opening the doors to the universe)
Tae Eul goes to 1994.
– Lee Gon dies: LOST/LOST (Tae Eul is stuck out of her time)
– Lee Gon loses + half-flute: WIN (they can go 26 years forward together)
– Lee Gon wins + full flute: WIN (no need to open the doors of the universe)
(In 1994, Tae Eul does not participate in the battle in this comparison, she stay near the gate).
I won’t quibble about the ratio, at least it’s comparable.
It is therefore a subjective apprehension that is valid in one way or another, like a little bit of everything in this drama. From an optimistic, victory oriented point of view, and because the two lovers prefer to remain united, the solution to take Tae Eul is instinctively the one that comes naturally to me. You don’t abandon your loved one like that, you stay together for the better and for the worse!
Second situation.
Why would Tae Eul wait in the in-between world with Lee Lim?
My opinion is that Tae Eul has every interest to go in 1994 (which reinforces the previous situation and ensures continuity). And as soon as the scene starts, I don’t understand what she’s doing here.
An idea has been launched: Tae Eul is waiting in the in-between world to better trap the 1994 Lee Lim. I don’t remember hearing that in the drama. Or the dialogue was ambiguous.
But I’ll take that explanation, since it’s the one that’s accepted here.
Note here, that if Lee Lim or Lee Gon have the whole flute, the two half-flutes disappear, as well as the portals and inter-worlds of these half-flutes.
Tae Eul is waiting in the in-between world to trap Lee Lim from 1994.
– Lee Lim has half a flute: WIN
– Lee Lim has the whole flute: LOST (Lee Lim takes the portal that leads to the multiverse, not the one between the two half-flutes).
– Lee Gon has the whole flute: LOST (Ditto, the old portal is destroyed, the new portal is the multiverse one, that’s what happens in the drama, and Lee Gon has little chance to find Tae Eul in an infinity of worlds).
Tae Eul waits in 1994 near the gate to trap Lee Lim from 1994..
– Lee Lim has half a flute. WIN ( Tae-Eul is certain to intercept him )
– Lee Lim has the whole flute : WIN ( Ditto)
– Lee Gon has the whole flute: WIN (No need to open the doors of the universe)
In addition to this, Lee Gon should have explained to her that objects don’t work during timestop, if he took the trouble to tell her a little about his life.
Here, the ratio is decisive. Tae Eul had better go to 1994.
If Tae Eul can go in 1994, she will, that’s where her trap will be the most effective, and where she will have the best chance of not losing her memory and staying with Lee Gon.
There is, however, one explanation we hadn’t considered until now:
Maybe Lee Lim never intended to travel back in time.
Let’s not forget that he controls the power of the flute, “to save himself”.
In this case, it is natural that Tae Eul is simply in the in-between world with him.
The only objective was at least to open the portal to activate Lee Gon’s time travel.
Rather than exit the portal in 2020, Tae Eul is waiting to set its trap.
Maybe that’s the solution. But if this is the case, it is of no importance, because a solution found by a spectator is worthless, and is only tinkering with after the fact.
It was up to the screenwriter to find and show this to ensure the stability of the scene, from the very beginning, and to give it impact at the first viewing. Then it’s too late. Kind of like everything in this drama.
Sidebar: it is deplorable to transmit the complete mechanics by a verb in a dialogue! To easy to miss. This simple verb “to become” implies the notion of simply entering the gate? Impossible to deduce that the exit doesn’t matter. And the rest is a blur. “Bring to the moment when you want to save yourself.” It’s instantaneous? No, we see Lee Gon and Lee Lim running the first time. So there is a notion of distance in the in-between world. If this distance concerns a temporal journey, we deduce that we are going to one time or another in number of years by travelling this distance. So that Tae Eul and Lee Lim are at an undefined point in time, since it is not known whether they are time traveling or simply in the in-between world “normally”, therefore the question of what becomes of them when the in-between world disappears arises. What did it cost to show it? It’s not a question of not watching the show, it’s that the show shows nothing, all the time!
And if one of the two travellers has left the in-between world and the other is still in it, because of the distance to be covered, the flute is no longer whole. How would the other person end their time journey? The mechanics are incompatible with what has already been seen. Inconsistency, maybe, or it works another way, we’ll never know, and this kind of thing screws up all the good scenes.
There I gave my deductions, not as an absolute truth, it’s just the path of my thoughts, according to the clues I already have, so the way I’m easely confused. In real time during the first viewing! And, yeah, sometimes I forget things, like Lee Lim coming back an hour earlier. But what do you want, we spend our time always forgetting everything in there, it’s so messy. And I don’t have a good memory, either! Episodes watched x1 ! Basic spectator, no cheat, same of the ones in Korea watching TV and making ratings. No online interactive game. If I get meaning afterward, I don’t care. Immersion above all ! If the show isn’t good at first viewing, it will never be.
The “save yourself” definitely doesn’t make any sense. Lee Gon could come back an hour earlier, just like Lee Lim. He took the flute quietly and put the child Lee Gon to safety. Then he could even go and talk to the 1994 Lee Lim to dissuade him from committing a crime. At least, this Lee Lim will have had the choice of his acts, contrary to an already pre-determined temporal frame destined to be replayed without possible deviation, nor moral choice. It would also have prevented things like Jo Yeong, who does not bother with ethical issues, and ruthlessly kills the young prince whose misdeed of slight gravity has not yet been committed.
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Now here’s the bonus idea.
How the scenario could have brought these situations clearly and inexpensively, with a plot-twist on top of it, and better emotion.
Farewell scene.
It starts the same way, and Lee Gon’s promise to open the gates to the universe.
Here, Lee Gon gives the reasons why he can’t take Tae Eul (the one you related are fine). Crying and tearing. Except the scene goes on.
Tae Eul begged Lee Gon to take him away in 1994, and gave different reasons, from the type I gave. More crying!
Lee Gon finally agrees, cries, and asks Tae Eul’s forgiveness for having the idea of leaving her there.
Instead of a simple scene: Goodbye/Crying, it’s a triptych Farewell-Supplication-Forgiveness, with a better dramatic, emotional and tearful climax, deeper on the couple’s relationship. The despairs of the two characters pile up, and in the end, they are lost and trembling beings clinging to each other.
Interworld scene.
Tae Eul enters the gate with Lee Lim, she’s pointing a gun at him. I kept the idea that Tae Eul doesn’t know that the gun doesn’t work because the original scene exploits that later. (But it’s a plot-hole that needs to be fixed. Even in the original scene, it’s likely that Lee Gon alerted Shin-Jay since he was supposed to escort Lee Lim, and then Shin-Jay should have alerted Tae Eul.)
Lee Lim’s supposed to drive her around 1994, otherwise… BANG!
(We don’t know all the way through the drama of how people get out of the in-between world. So I guess here it’s through one of the pillars of light, which serves as an inner portal.)
The two characters approach the pillar of light at the exit, and at that moment… Plot-twist!
The pillar of light disappears! It’s going off! Sbrooof!
Lee Lim lays down his cards, he controls the half-flute, and finally decides to block the exit. Therefore, Tae Eul has an obvious and valid reason to get stuck in the in-between world. The scene benefits from an introduction and an objective, going towards the exit into the past. We are not thrown into this without context or reason.
That’s not all!
Another idea for more dramatic tension. Remember how Lee Lim is handcuffed and wounded? He doesn’t pose a serious threat. Tae Eul would have the advantage in hand-to-hand combat.
Lee Lim’s world in between is not only adorned with photographs. There are also umbrellas planted regularly. He grabs one of the umbrellas, which of course is a sword umbrella. (Note: it could be a single umbrella instead, or this idea is abandoned. One should have shown his world with umbrellas before that. So correct the other previous scenes).
Tae Eul can’t use her weapon even though she’s seriously threatened, new plot-twist! Then resolution of the scene as in the drama. (As well to keep as much because it was nice, except the end, needing to show how this world collapse and how Tae Eul teleport elsewhere).
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Here, it was my last job for TKEM.
Goodluck with it everybody!