The thread is now open for spoilers and discussions.
Gifs from lrwhalein’s tumblr
Let’s enjoy the show.
33 Comments On “Lovers of the Red Sky: Eps 9 & 10 Open Thread”
Comments are closed.
The thread is now open for spoilers and discussions.
Gifs from lrwhalein’s tumblr
Let’s enjoy the show.
Comments are closed.
Kalimera!
Thank you @Packmule3 for this thread! π
Let us enjoy tonight’s episode!
Let’s cross our fingers. To me, kdramas tend to derail in their mid-game. They always look promising at the start, then get wrecked in the middle, and limp over to the finish line. π
I have a long post about Yul. They’re my notes on him so I can remember his scenes. I’ll post it with a password because it’s still a work in progress. But I’ll remove the password later when I come home from work.
@Packmule3,
I am crossing my fingers because you are right. I think that they won’t mess it, because it is based on a book, but we should be alert.
I want to write down here some of my thoughts, because it will give us a good start about what will happene tonight in Episode 9.
I have managed to rewatch episodes 7&8 back to back and I am certain that what I have said last week is right. Cheon Gi will paint that bowl of eternity to save HaRam. She was present -this time- when HaRam was having that headache. I am pretty sure she didn’t hear MaWang’s voice calling for his eyes aka CG’s eyes.
You are also right that HaRam first priority is to protect Cheon Gi. He went to her, because of the interpretation he gave to that star’s shining in the Big Dipper. He was anxious that she might be in danger. So, his first instict is to protect her at all costs.
At the same time, the Shaman Lady enchanted with Black Entanctment, not only the satgat painter but also the Royal guards. That means she is pretty wicked.
Only two persons were the sole eye witnesses when MaWang was awakened:
Cheon Gi and Prince Yul.
Prince Yul will try to block HaRam from seeing Cheon Gi, when Cheon Gi will try to find out what is wrong with HaRam. They haven’t connected yet the dots about MaWang.
I am not sure what the 2nd Prince will do next. I am pretty sure though, that he will try to extract MaWang from HaRam. Which means, will he try to kidnap him and lock him up and do mambo jumbo? Are they going to physically hurt him? If they find a chance they will. The 2nd Prince seems to enjoy such things.
We have to remember that the Shaman Lady performed a human sacrifice in order to rain. The fact that the Gods accepted HaRam as a human sacrifice, is a thing I haven’t voiced before, but I strongly disliked it.
Anyway, I will stop here and we shall see.
Yes, I like that Ha Ram immediately went in search of CK as soon as he heard about the stars. I would have thought he’d go in search of the King — but I guess he really didn’t care about the King, did he? π
And when he threw/blasted CK away from him, he was protecting her, too. He didn’t know what was happening to him, and he must be in tremendous pain, but he wanted her out of his vicinity.
@packmule3,
I agree with you. It is the second time that he does that.
This time is more profound because he searched for her.
You are right he doesn’t care about the King… LOL
I forgot to write that Cheon Gi went to retrieve the handkerchief HaRam gave her 19 years ago.
Is he going to find that out?
Cheon Gi kept it as a reminder/ talisman for so many years…
Episode 9 | My First Thoughts.
The major players have found out the truth.
So, from now on the serious action will get started.
As it seems, the King knew that HaRam had inside his body MaWang?
If that is true, then why did he kill his father? He was from the Taoist Buraeu. He could help. Unnecessary measures when he shun away the Shaman Lady.
Still, Prince Yul didn’t have to give an ultimatum to HaRam. (I am talking about Episode’s 10 preview.) Especially after that kite incident. Private matters are involved with Public matters.
I really liked that Cheon Gi could spot the Mountain Spirit. Especially her advice against Samshin’s wishes, were not understood for the time being. I don’t think that she will stay away from HaRam. At one point she will have a talk or two with Samshin.
It is also revealed that the Goblin was the one who made Eun Oh mad. Eun Oh was cursed from MaWang, but he lost his mind because of the Goblin.
I mean how Prince Yul is so naive to promise that he will protect Cheon Gi from a supernatural being? I think the 3rd Prince acts emotionally and doesn’t understand the danger that awaits for them all.
Samshin has sealed MaWang for the time being into HaRam. I don’t think that the Royal Painting will be the eternal container of MaWang. We have discussed it before with @Packmule3 and I continue to believe that the bowl of eternity will be something else.
The question of the century? Who is going to perform the new exorcism? We haven’t seen a character that has taken the place of HaRam’s father or the Shaman’s Lady in the Royal Court. So, what are exactly the King’s plans? BTW, I don’t think this exorcism will happen, not what the King has in mind anyway.
That’s all for now…
P.S. We have to discuss what happened in that kite scene!!! π
Hello @Cleopatra! Thanks for your very interesting first impressions of ep9.
As you say the major players have found the truth but it is also a risky game. Like in the Go play in the end of the episode; you have to hide your intentions in order to get to know the intentions of others. It looks like Ha Ram (as Il Wol-sung) is trying to achieve two things at the same time: pitting Prince 2 and Prince 3 at each other (which would be his long planned revenge) while at the same time trying to get information from them about Mawang (the truth abt what’s happening to him).
I’m wondering abt Ha Ram’s duality though. In ep 8 he said to Cheon Gi ‘wait till I come to you’ and in ep 9 we had this kite scene (won’t spoil for others for now) but he’s still plotting his revenge. I know that this revenge may be the result of Mawang being inside him, that Mawang is feeding this dark desire in him but still did Ha Ram give any clear inclination of hesitating in his revenge plans for the sake of Cheon Gi? He did struggle in order to not kill her when Mawang was trying to control him, or it seemed like that at least. Or is he planning to attribute the revenge to Il Wol-sung? Or maybe for now the issue of Mawang inside him and his pursuit of truth is more important so he’s only using Prince 3 and his ambition to get the details from him?
As to the preview, I’m very curious abt the scene at the stream. It looked like they had some kind of portable table for painting? Is Ha Ram going to ask Cheong to paint his portrait? Maybe as a way to remember him when they are separated (on the order of Prince 3 or for the time of the investigation?) – sorry my imagination is running wild and I cannot wait for next episode.
@Linnea,
I will try to answer to you briefly, because it is kinda late in my part of the world.
I think that he changed his mind, after Cheon Gi stayed with him that night and especially AFTER he found out about the handkerchief.
It was a message for him too. That’s why he acted so drastically.
I don’t think that MaWang is making him do anything.
HaRam is plotting that revenge because he feels he was wronged by the Royal Family and in a sense he is totally right. He is not interested in the throne, as the 2nd Prince is. He is interested to make them suffer like he did.
As @Packmule3 has posted before, HaRam won’t proceed with his revenge. Samshim didn’t create him for that. He will find out what is capable for.
Most likely he is going to ask her to paint a portrat of him or something for him. We shall see….Kalinixta for now!
Thank you @Cleo for your explanation.
(and Good night to you as well; btw we are almost in the same time time zone, but Greece is +1 hour compared to me and besides, I’m a night owl and still doing some work inbetween commenting)
I was wondering abt this duality bc right after the handkerchief scene Ha Ram still decided to meet Prince 3 as Il Wol-sung. So I’m wondering what’s his primary agenda now. Is it like in the Go game, that he’s hiding his true intention (=learning abt Mawang in order to save Cheon Gi and himself) bc he wants to know the opponent’s plans? So in exchange for this information he pretends to hold on to his plotting. Or is he really still plotting?
I agree that the revenge shouldn’t get accomplished by him bc that’s not what he’s aimed to (by Samshin), there are other reasons as well.
And I agree that he feels wronged by the king and the shaman and the guard, thus the revenge plan. And besides, revenge is a recurring motif in sageuk, it seems like a sageuk isn’t really a sageuk if there isn’t anybody wronged by some evil higher-ups and plotting revenge. But who knows maybe without Mawang inside of him he wouldn’t be so persistent in it? Feeding Ha Ram’s revenge desire may also be a way for Mawang to take control over him or become stronger (like it happend to the previous king so Mawang became too strong, he brought such misery and destruction that they had to exorcize him) – just a thought.
Although on the other hand Ha Ram neither sought for Mawang nor accepted him willingly like the previous king did but was sacrificed to contain the demon so maybe he is just a vessel and Mawang doesn’t influence him in that matter and the revenge is only his, ie Ha Ram, without Mawang adding anything to it.
I just saw the clip of Tiger Spirit and the actress is brilliant for her age! She reminds me of Millie Bobby Brown when she played Eleven in Stranger Things. Her intensity for someone so young is astounding. Will try to watch both eps tomorrow.
I FOUND IT!!!!
I was trying to find out what HaRam really said…*swoon*
κ·Έλλ₯Ό μ°λͺ¨νμ€ | geudaeleul yeonmohao
lol! You and I think alike.
I was writing about this while you were searching for it. I’ll watch it when I get home. π
@Packmule3,
I just wrote on your thread, that we are soulmates in this one! π
I am pausing my watch of Episode 10 to ask two questions:
1. Yul assured CK that he would care for her and her father if she went mad restoring the royal portrait. I wonder why Painter Hong Eun Ho was not properly cared for by the royal court when he went mad. Is it because his madness wasn’t immediate, but grew over time? Did that cause the royal court to think his madness wasn’t related to the Ma Wang sealing ritual? Thank goodness for the kindness of the people running Baekyu Painting School, taking in CK and her father, providing their necessities, because the royal court seemed to have no sense of responsibility toward Painter Hong and his dependent child. How could the King not have been aware for two decades what happened to him?
2. Two rich men claim to admire CK. Why hasn’t at least one of them bought her a decent pair of shoes? Are they afraid of the superstition that after gifting a lover shoes, the lover will run away? There’s got to be a workaround so CK doesn’t have to continue wearing the knotted jute shoes of the peasantry.
@nrllee, the scenes in Episode 9 with the Tiger Mountain Spirit were fabulous, weren’t they? When the white tiger jumped off the palace roof and she, in human form, landed on the ground with her feet inside the big tiger paw prints…*chef’s kiss*!
About the shoes, I learned this when watching βBossamβ β
The nice shoes were strictly reserved for the Yangban (noble/Elite/ruling class) and royalty.
CK doesnβt belong in either class. She was raised as a commoner. So she wore the straw shoes.
She would have looked odd in her regular dress and luxury shoes. Also, she would have to learn to walk in those shoes and be fitted properly so the shoes wouldnβt rub against her heels.
I think the commoners were allowed to dress up in fine clothes and shoes for their wedding.
As for Painter Hongβs madness, this tidbit I learned from βMr Queenβ β
A sick or wounded court attendant or servant was immediately banished from the palace because of fear of spreading the illness to the royal family. I realized then that the sick people Iβve seen within the palace walls in kdramas were royals.
Because of his curse/insanity, Painter Hong wouldnβt have been allowed to stay with the Painting Bureau. He would have been treated like the shaman: discarded after his usefulness was done. Didnβt the Shaman say that once the hunt was over, the hunting dogs were disposed, too?
Fortunately, CK and dad werenβt homeless, though. It seemed like the headmaster and the household help took care of CK. (She was going to sew her torn sleeve, right?)
These details donβt bother me because I assumed that:
a. the screenwriter had to pare down the original novel. He streamlined the story to fit 16 episodes and focus on the OTP.
b. the original author did her research and passed her editorsβ scrutiny before publication since it was based on real historical figures.
c. The original manuscript wasnβt a webtoon like Yumiβs Cells, nor a fan service like Hometown Cha Cha Cha.
@Packmule3, my second question shows that my perspective is from a money-based rather than strictly class-based society. I hadn’t thought that leather shoes were something CK was forbidden to have, rather than something she didn’t have because she couldn’t afford them.
What about courtesans? In Kdramas they appear to have been well dressed and well shod. Would high-class courtesans have noble roots, perhaps coming from families that had fallen from grace? Could there have been an exception for non-noble but refined courtesans who entertained men of noble rank, so the nobles wouldn’t have their sensibilities offended?
Knowing that the shoes on a person’s feet once might have been a matter of law, not just economics and preference, I better understand how wearing expensive shoes might be more than a fashion statement for Hye Jin of Hometown Cha-Cha-Cha.
As for Painter Hong being cast aside in his maddened state, I suppose his being left to his own devices is better than his being locked away, run out of the community, or even killed for being demon possessed. Awareness of mental illness and its causes is something we can be thankful for in this modern age. I did wonder when CK begged Prince #2 for mercy toward her father because of his mental illness, if that was anachronistic.
A couple more notes after watching Episode 10:
When the current head of the shaman bureau talked with Yul, at one point her eyes changed from brown to grey. I wasn’t clear if that meant she’d been affected by the black magic of Mi Soo, or if it indicated a divine voice was speaking through her. And when Yul asked her for proof that Ma Wang was in Ha Ram, she wove a spell that I believe allowed him to see the events in front of the royal portrait gallery from a guard’s viewpoint. Does that mean she, not Mi Soo, had enchanted them that night? I find it confusing, but maybe it will all be clarified later like the Hwacha demon mystery has been revealed.
The actor playing Ha Ram, Ahn Hyo Seop, has spindly legs.
When CK and HR came out from her room partially undressed and got caught by HR’s staff, I found it hilarious (and suggestive) when his bodyguard tried to look distracted by unsheathing and resheathing his sword. Just sayin’…
This is how I understood that scene, @Welmaris.
Option #2. π The current shamanβs eyes turned gray because a βdivine voice was speaking through her.β NOT because of Misooβs black magic.
Misoo however enchanted Prince2 so he could see for himself when Misoo summoned Mawang from Haramβs body. The black magic was strongest during full moon. She just wanted to communicate with Mawang. But when Mawang awakened, it had a mind of its own. It wanted to get its eyes back from Cheongki.
Thatβs the missing link, btw. Nobody knows β not even the current shaman β that Mawangβs eyesight links Haram and Cheongki.
Mawang went to Cheongkiβs room to get his eyes, and strangled her. Cheongkiβs ring protected her but it wasnβt enough to overpower Mawang. Fortunately, the green goblin had come looking for her, too. Green Goblinβs power along with the ringβs power succeeded in subduing Mawang and imprisoning it back inside of HaRam.
To retaliate against Misooβs black magic on his divine painter Cheongki, Green Goblin counter-attacked Misoo.
So⦠Cheongki has Samshin, the Tiger, and apparently, the Green Goblin too, on her side.
Will finish watching tomorrow. Too sleepy now. Gnight.
And youβre right, @Welmarisβ¦
When CK and HR were caught in the courtyard going back to his room, the bodyguard was unsheathed and resheathed his sword. It was meant to be a sexually suggestive. Even Mansu, the manservant, held onto a wooden post. (Remember? The Naughty cell in Yumaβs cells?) The sword and the wooden post are phallic symbols.
And yes, I agree. The HaRam actorβs legs are like toothpicks. ππ
Kalimera ladies!
I couldn’t post last night. Since you have discussed some things, I will add my thoughts as well.
I believe that the new Head of the Shamanic Bureau has Divination as her charisma / magic power. She was giving an Oracle / Warning to Prince Yul that he shouldn’t mess with Cheon Gi. We could say that Samshin was there as well, because the Shaman Lady knew many details, like the fact that CG has a destined partner.
Prince Yul is jealous if that partner is HaRam and he is challenging his Fate. His bold words for me are just words.
We learned though, that the person who is going to become the next King is not his Hyung-nim, but himself. It is a very important information that one.
I believe that the 3rd Prince will bring havoc with his interference. Mostly because he is so stubborn NOT to lose the girl (which is not his anyway).
I enjoyed those light scenes with HaRam and CheonGi… and that made me realize that angst is on our way in full force. You forgot to mention @Welmaris and @Packmule3 the hairpin. They wanted to buy one that depicts that CG is married. I laughed so hard on that one! I rewatched the whole scene for reference! LMAO
So far, plotwise, my hunch / theory / hypothesis that HaRam will be sacrificed again comes true. The fact is that it will happen from the same people or their next of kin for their selfish reasons. The previous King have welcomed MaWang inside him, spreading havoc in the Kingdom in the meantime. In order to redeem himself, he did that ritual. The people who were affected were his nationals, with the drought.
Who was their savior? In both times, the person we are talking is from lineage of Ha. They used HaRamβs father, then ordered to kill him. He lived in a village and the Shaman Lady went and informed the King that his son is the chosen one for that salamander sacrifice that was a human sacrifice in disguise.
The King said half-truths to his son about what happened twenty years ago and now his son is repeating the vicious cycle. Prince Yul went to arrest HaRam, after he learned what happened to HRβs hometown. Did he also learn that his father the King ordered his family to be slaughtered in front of the villagers? If that so, then he is a hypocrite and worst than his brother the 2nd Prince. At least with the 2nd Prince we know where we are standing, whereas the 3rd Prince is talking hasty measures to protect Cheon Gi, because he is envious of HaRam.
MaWang was sealed to HaRamβs body because SamShin wanted so. The 2nd and 3rd Princes freed MaWang from their Grandfatherβs Royal Portrait. It doesnβt matter who did it, but the fact that the 3rd Prince took his brother there, means that they share the same responsibility.
Now, regarding the Hwatcha that saved Cheon Gi and counter attacked Mi Su, I wonβt lie, I was glad that she was stopped. She has messed up with so many lives like people are nothing for her.
Anyway, bring your tissues with you next time. At one point we will shed some tears.
@Cleopatra, I believe you’re right about the current head of the Shamanic Bureau having the gift of divination as she’s speaking to Yul. What she said to him was in the best interests of him, the throne, and the nation. It was not the advice that would come from someone aligned with an effort to take the throne by force.
The hairpin reference? I was amused when it came up, but it didn’t catch my attention as much as…well…I guess @Packmule3 and I were focused on the phallic symbols.
@Welmaris,
Of course! Amusement was evident! LMAO
Especially the following lines:
-Don’t look at me!
-I can’t really see…
…
-Did you hit me just now?
And the scene you discussed as well…LOL
Well, I was wondering who was the new head of the Shaman Bureau since someone has to perform that ritual again. They gave us the answer in a very interesting scene…
I forgot to write down that the last scene spoke volumes.
Cheon Gi tried to block the Royal Guards and one of them tried to hit her.
So, Prince Yul will protect Cheon Gi from danger? That’s why he didn’t say anything to stop his guard from attacking a woman?
I am glad that HaRam protected her again and took her by his side when his stance was one ready to fight them back. He showed everyone and especially the 3rd Prince what a Man really does for his Woman. No just words, but ACTIONS!
Iβll watch it soon. But nice to have it all, sword- sheathed/unsheathed, wooden post and hairpin. π
Annyeong,
A lot of reveals in these episodes. and loving the HR and CK moments π
When CK stayed beside HRs bed, the next morning she finds herself in HR’s bed. that was interesting. does that mean HR carried her there? i guess so. this is actually their 2nd night together. the morning after of their 3rd night together is hilarious! @PM3 funny on the phallic symbols. now that you mentioned it. LOL.
@pm3 and @welmaris, good eye on those spindly legs of HR. i did notice that. eeeks. funny. i was hoping for manly legs haha. for such a buff guy. are those really his legs?? @cleo, didn’t know hairpin means they’re married. awww, i like that prediction. thanks for including their morning afater convo. i was cracking up… oh CK taking HR across the yard covertly – amusing! it even put a smile on HR’s face.
interesting that CK didn’t mind the hour and still went to HR’s house… that CK is expressive in missing HR and was not ashamed in asking HR if he missed her too… and how much? awwwww so sweet was his answer. as much as the stars in the sky. swoon.
CK having divine eyes means she can see the Tiger (goddess) HoRyeong. cool. but she didn’t seem to realize it. why did she ask CK to break up with the demon? i don’t think she agrees with Samshin’s method?
when CK fakes sickness – and she called in sick… Prince3 ignored the message and went to see her anyways. interesting. guess they were not allowed to have sick time back then? hmm
HR playing GO was remarkable. sometimes, i feel, he can see — the way he sweeps in to save CK so many times now like a dashing hero… love it! π like @cleo said, HR shows his devotion by his heroic actions, not just grandiose words.
so we find that the green goblin is good. yay. and the jade ring has powers?? does HR know that? hmmm
so after HR’s confession, now CK hears Prince3’s also but was taken aside as a joke. sad. like @ cleo said, Prince3 is challenging his fate and he’s envious of HR… making him restrict HR from seeing Ck and now, arresting him π
did HR wanted his portrait painted to contain Mawang? and send CK and her dad away??? i don’t think CK wants to leave HR. so sad when HR said that they are not meant to be together. the fact that Mawang is inside him and that they were seaparated for 19 years. i think HR should not give up so easily. but it’s obviously a hard road for both of them – this fate. #fighting π
@HK_Lady, there’s special meaning to HR and CK when they mention the number of stars in the sky, because of the conversation they had as children, which both remember.
I wouldn’t call Hwacha good, as his protection of CK is based on his self interest. We will see where that leads him. It is foretold CK will vanish after creating Ma Wang’s sealing vessel; perhaps it will be because of Hwacha. When Headmaster saw Hwacha, he recognized the human the goblin inhabited and said no-one knew what had happened to him, as he had disappeared.
The jade ring was powerful, I believe, because it was imbued with the love between HR and CK. When Ma Wang was strangling CK in front of the royal portrait gallery, a single tear from CK’s eye falling on Ma Wang’s hand stopped him from strangling her (I think that’s what called in Tiger goddess for help). The ring’s power was activated to protect both CK and HR from the supernatural powers of Ma Wang and the shaman. It was against Ha Ram’s will to kill CK, and the ring helped HR’s will prevail. Other powers that came to their aid were from the tiger painting (containing magic from both Sam Shin and the mountain spirit) and Hwacha. I get the impression Hwacha directed his magic to counter the shaman’s spell.
Yul’s motive for having HR arrested was more than jealousy, I think. He wants to protect CK, of course, but I think he also figured this was a quick way to contain Ma Wang since being in CK’s presence is what has previously allowed him to manifest. Yul wants to buy time while he settles the means of sealing Ma Wang.
I doubt either HR, CK, or anyone else realizes that a portrait of HR would be the vessel to seal Ma Wang, but it makes sense because Ma Wang is currently trapped inside HR, not the former king.
How ironic: CK, using sight from Ma Wang’s own eyes, will paint the portrait that will seal Ma Wang.
Dear @Packmule3,
Are you going to open a new thread? β€οΈπΉ
This has happened before: because of work responsibilities @Packmule3 was absent from BoD for a period of time. My suggestion is that we wait another day or so for her to reappear. If we do choose to continue our discussions, we can pick closely related threads and start our comments with headings that indicate the thread we intended.
@Welmaris,
Thank you for the info!
Should we continue over here then?
@Cleopatra, I’m not the boss here: there’s one, and only one, Queen of BoD π. I was only making a suggestion; you can decide what works best for you. I had thought I’d wait a bit more for @Packmule3, but I will admit to having withdrawal pangs due to missing our chats.
@Welmaris,
I just saw that I haven’t answered to your message.
Yes, of course the boss here is the Queen of BoD.
I was waiting until she opened a new thread, but I haven’t seen you there!
@Cleopatra, I’m practicing JOMO in regard to LotRS at the moment, but I’ll eventually get to the thread @Packmule3 opened for eps. 11 & 12. The past few days I’ve been having more fun watching, thinking about, and commenting on HC3 and D&CP. I have watched the two latest episodes of Red Sky and came away feeling meh. It says a lot about this drama that my favorite scenes are when painters are painting.