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As requested by @Growing_Beautifully.
Please post comments in the appropriate Open Threads.
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Will contain spoilers.
Enjoy the show.
The thread is open.
As requested by @Growing_Beautifully.
Please post comments in the appropriate Open Threads.
Remember, you can always search and pull up the threads from the Categories box.
Will contain spoilers.
Enjoy the show.
Oh wow @pkml3!!! You woke up and the first thing you did was notice that we wanted more threads? LOL. Thanks sooooo much. This really helps us along with the commenting. This Show is turning up much better than anticipated! 😁
🙂 My pleasure, @GB.
I regularly turn off the notification bell so I’m not distracted during the day. I check the blog in the morning, during coffee. Your post happened to be up on top.
Also when you put lots of emojis, I know something’s up. lol.
Yes, indeed @pkml3, GB’s emojis mean something’s afoot! LOL.
This is a great show, better than Love Between Fairy and Devil. I just hope they maintain the quality and story all the way through and can fill up another 30++ episodes with more of the same for the next Season as well.
@GB – So agree.
Just so we are prepared…
There are rumours that the number of episodes in Season 2 will be cut back: https://koalasplayground.com/2023/08/04/c-drama-lost-you-forever-part-2-may-get-shortened-to-21-episodes-and-also-need-to-wait-12-months-to-air/
I hope, if this happens, that the quality isn’t severely compromised. I really hope with all the positive feedback that the producers are not forced to take this step.
Dearie me @Kate! This augers ill for the way the story develops. I’d be asking over and over why something is happening if there’s not enough build-up to explain it!
I know @GB — my heart sank a bit when I read that.
My hope is that this is only a rumour or that we are talking about a) only a possibility and b) a redistribution across the whole show that may already have happened and been taken note of in the first season. I did read something to that effect today…
But how do you condense and cut a drama where each segment builds towards the whole? At this stage, perhaps they will have to shoot some audio links to move us through bits of plot that are not absolutely crucial. For this, they will need to be able to get hold of actors and actresses to do the voiceovers…
@Kate @GB
As far as I know, the 72 episodes were also a rumor to begin with. Maybe there were 60 episodes from the start. But the cut has also been reported by Sina entertainment which I guess is a semi-reliable Chinese entertainment website, not entirely sure though.
Nonetheless, I have been hearing the episode count follows the book chapters closely. At ep 22, the book chapter was 15. And the total book chapters are 55 so around 60 episodes would most probably mean tighter script and less filler. Some say they shot more episodes to be wary of censorship, people were already concerned there will be lots of fillers with 72 episodes.
Also i don’t think the team has any reason to edit other than making the script tighter. They have the liberty to have 40 more episodes after season 1. For them choosing to only go for 21 when the show is already a hit and less episodes could mean less return, imo only goes to show they are making the drama better.
I’m more concerned about how long season 2 will take to air. Because that can totally break the tempo they have set.
@Wapz,
Thank you. This is reassuring to hear. It doesn’t sound like we will be looking, all being well, at a big, unwanted cut of the second season.
Yes the gap between seasons is the other issue. I hope it won’t be a year! We’ll have to do a pre-Season 2 re-watch to remind ourselves of all the drama!
Thanks for your thoughts @wapz. What you say makes sense too. We take heart from it that it will be a better show with the edit. Kudos to the production team, if without being forced to, they are making the show leaner, even if it means less profits.
The reason for the 40 episode restriction was because of profiteering by adding filler. So far the show has been going at a good pace, and even feels a bit hectic at times, and so, no filler!
EPISODE 7
a TENDER MOMENT AND THE ALMOST FIGHT
By the time of Skinny’s wedding, it has already been 6 years that SQ has been with XY.
XY is disgusted by A Nian’s disdain of people whom she considers beneath her and dirty, and observes that both SQ and A Nian are from similar backgrounds in social rank and family, with both also immortal deities.
XY : “Actually you and A Nian are the same type. (The type that looks) down from on high, and overlooking all living beings. But when I see A Nian ‘being arrogant and rude’, I really want to slap her. But when I see you, I …”
SQ : “What do you want?”
XY : “I want to pull you down to earth.”
She splashes him with water and then tells him not to wipe the water away. They have a tender moment when he wipes some water from her shoulders and they look at each other. (This is about the first proper indication we have that XY has more tender feelings towards SQ than she has evinced so far.)
BUT of course that’s the time Chubby comes with Serpent who orders her to come up.
We see that the first meeting where SQ and Serpent had traded male stares over the ‘woman,’ XY (that was when she’d first been captured and beaten by Serpent) is now escalating to threats.
This time SQ holds on to XY and pulls her behind him a bit as if to protect her and keep her from Serpent’s grasp. XL notes it at once: SQ is behaving like a man with his woman.
SQ : “She’s not going anywhere. Say what you want right here.”
XL/Serpent addresses XY, ignoring SQ :“Are you coming over by yourself, or you want me to come to you?”
A threatened fight over an ‘unacknowledged’ woman crops up when Serpent summons without even a twitch, 4 icy daggers pointed landwards.
SQ tells XY to stand behind and summons a ball of light.
The 4 icy daggers adjust their aim for SQ.
XY breaks up the standoff by claiming that all are friends there and that Serpent must have brought a gift for the wedding. (We see that this is the way to ensure a fight does not ensue while no one loses face.)
The daggers evaporate and XY gets SQ to make his ball of light disappear too.
When Shi Qi sees XY is off with Serpent, his feelings cause the flowers around him to wilt. (SQ’s devotion towards XY has been both gratitude, loyalty and romantic love from almost the beginning. He willingly places himself in her power, to be used by her and others who want to use her. He knows it but continues to go along with it, as long as it’s what XY wants.
I’m kind of conflicted in my opinion of this. Which woman does not like have the undivided attentions of a man who’s totally devoted to her and wants to fulfill every whim. But… I also cringe at that. Love has to be tough sometimes and does not mean one has to give way all the time, no matter what. He’s behaving towards XY the way that CX is behaving towards A Nian… it gets infuriating that one person is over-spoilt. But it also makes SQ, for all his sweetness, too bland, too predictable and too much of a puppy with XY.
If he has to go up against Serpent, I’d like that SQ has more equal power, otherwise, I’d prefer that they become more like allies even if they cannot be friends.
Oh BTW, I find it funny that XY is caught between 2 men: 1 with 9 heads and the other with 9 tails LOLOL. What are the chances!!! 😆🤔🤭
And so… this is one of the reasons that viewers will root for Serpent. He’s just more interesting, unpredictable, less human-like than others, and has a thing for XY. I like that he’s genuinely curious about her and has very good, long conversations with her. Perhaps it began with being intrigued that a woman was masquerading as a man, that she’d had a past and unlike others, was not really all that afraid of him. However he starts treating her more like a woman from around Episode 7 onwards, and us viewers start to swoon LOL.
I guess it’s because, despite his identity of being serpent, demon, a ruthless killer, strategist and user of people, all of which he does not bother to hide (as opposed to the ‘good’ guys) he is still able to relate to others’ pain and loneliness and he’s able to love.
THE WALKING ON WATER DATE (EPISODE 7)
Serpent looks at XY when they are on the ground (drying their clothes yet again) after a scary ride on Chubby. XY thinks that he must be in a bad mood to have made Chubby do all the dare-devil flying tricks and plunging into the water. XL/Serpent continues to be curious about her.
XL : “Why is your spirit power so low?”
XY says her power was rather high among her peers but had been taken by a ‘fox’ who’d used medicine to distil her power into vessels, so that it would have been easier to eat her.
Flashback: We see how XY had been force fed medicine.
XY : “I heard that the pain of dispersing one’s power is like bones being drilled and marrow extracted. It seems like my forty lashes were too light for you. I’ll have to find other tools/means to torture you.”
XY gives him a look : “Do you think it gets smoother the more you practice, like singing? It’s precisely because I suffered so much back then that I’m really afraid of pain now, more than most people.”
XL : “How did you endure those thirty years in the cage?”
XY brightens up at the chance to tell her story : “In the beginning I fought against the fox. I always provoked him. But later, I got scared after being tortured, so I didn’t dare to do it anymore. In the end, I stayed silent and uncooperative, even trying to take my own life.”
Serpent gives her a look with a doubtful frown : “Even someone like you would seek death?” (He’s implying that she’s so full of life and so bursting with good intentions that it hardly seems likely she’d contemplate suicide?)
XY : “Yes, but I never managed to die. Later on I went from wanting to kill myself to wanting to kill him.“
XY shifts herself to look more directly at XL : “Our mentality is really strange. You can tell whether you’re happy or not, in pain or not, by comparing yourself with others. Do you need me to delve deeper into my miserable past? I could exaggerate it a bit. I’m sure you would think there would be no other miseries.” (He’s staring at her all this time. She thinks she’s dissipating his foul mood. His expression changes subtly.)
He reaches out to touch her, (I assume in commiseration), but she instinctively covers her head to protect herself. He pauses, recalling how he’d also covered his head when beaten as a ragged child in a cage. They were both people who had been conditioned to protect their heads to survive. He touches her neck instead.
He looks away when XY looks up.
XY : “You look quite different tonight. Did something unpleasant happen?”
He rises and walks out to the water.
XY : “You lived by the water when you were a child?”
He turns around to look at her and holds out his hand to her, as if asking her to walk with him into the water. She’s perplexed. Looks at his outstretched hand and takes it. They walk on the surface of Gourd Lake. She’s like a child, happy to be able to jump up and down on the water without sinking, as long as she’s holding his hand.
They watch the moon rising as if from the water.
XY : “Beautiful.”
XL : “Life is precious as long as we can enjoy such views.” (He is able to appreciate beauty.)
XY : “Even the rarest scenery would become dull if being seen too much. It will only be meaningful if there’s someone by my side. Sceneries are dead. (It’s only with people that scenery comes alive).” He watches her with an inscrutable expression (but perhaps there’s approval and longing there) and then looks down at their clasped hands. (So she’s the person he has chosen to be by his side to give the scenery a meaning.) He looks up again at her enjoyment of the moon and smiles slightly.
As they fly back on Chubby, she wants to know why he’s in a bad mood.
XY : “Actually you’re just a demon, a despised nine-headed demon. For the arrogant deities in Chenrong, you’re probably less than nothing in their eyes. Why are you worrying about Chenrong? What can you gain from following Hong Jiang?”
XL : “In your view, what should I do?”
XY : “If you like power, you might as well defect from Hong Jiang to the King of Xiyan.”
He turns with red eyes and she gets tied up in red flame. Her nose begins to bleed. She says she was wrong so he removes the bonds. (END of ROMANTIC DATE LOL)
This is the first of the DATES (if we don’t count the ones that brought on neck wounds. I wouldn’t really consider those others dates, but utility meetings LOL.
EPISODE 7
Shi Qi is relieved that XY has no new neck wounds and claims he will not leave XY but she says: “People who make promises are countless, but those who keep them are hard to find.”
Shi Qi tells XY to ignore Xiang Liu/Serpent and that he (Shi Qi) would deal with him later. (I guess we should get one good one-on-one battle between these 2 over the woman). She does not respond to this.
While Serpent was getting into more of a romantic attitude towards XY, XY is busy thinking of another means to ‘fix’ him LOL She takes out a walnut and speaks to herself that she’s found a way to deal with Serpent herself.
Just after XY tells SQ that he should not spoil her because she’d get used to it and would miss it when he leaves, and after SQ claims that he will never leave, SQ gets recognised as the 2nd master of the wealthy Tushan family, one of the 4 noble families.
XY is quite affected by the loss of SQ. It’s yet another occasion that she’s being abandoned by someone she’d come to care about. It’s likely that she has already developed romantic feelings for SQ, which she thinks she can never express.
SQ says that he wants to still be Ye Shi Qi, despite also being Tushan Jing, but XY rejects this and walks away. SQ’s expression is sadness, and chagrin, as he stands bereft.
Despite XY’s cold words however, when Tian Er comes from behind to help XY wash the dishes, we see that Tian Er notices XY looks disappointed to see her. She guesses that XY was waiting for someone. That would be SQ.
(to be continued…)
(Continued…)
Tian Er says that she feels settled at Rejuvenation Hall. She’s grateful for Skinny and family.
XY : “Aren’t you worried about the future at all?”… “Rather than regret in the future, better stay away now. As long as your heart becomes cold and hard, the pain will be less.”
(I’m guessing that XY means that Skinny has no great means to support himself and Tian Er and her choice to be gone would make sense. The other thing she’s saying is that people come and go at any time, and it’s better to not get hurt by the separation, by keeping a distance before forming attachments. It’s obvious that XY is hurting over SQ.)
Tian Er says sagely : “Once the heart becomes hard and cold, it can indeed block out pain, but it will also block out joy.”
XY looks at Tian Er in surprise.
XY : “Your words inspired me.”
It’s likely these words that make XY decide to be warmer towards SQ. Of course like the puppy he is with XY, he comes again, making sure that his clothes have no scent because XY did not like the scent before. She gives him a herbal sachet to wear that looks like an accessory and which emits a scent too.
Peace restored, they sit to chat. We note that her probing questions into his family and wealth which he willingly answers, are not only to elicit information, but act also as cover for her probing into his love life with the maids that he had LOL. Like a typical woman, XY is interested in which maid he likes more, or who looks prettier to him. He refuses to answer the questions about his maids but he looks at her, perturbed and somewhat meaningfully.
She gives him good advice for the return to his old life and offers him a place back with them if he cannot beat down (his enemies?). SQ is happy.
Probably her probing into what kind of woman he likes has also alerted him that she’s jealous that he has pretty maids around him, which means that she has feelings for him. However I like that he never presumes to force her to reveal her identity as a woman. He never takes advantage of her as like in a bromance. He retains a respectful distance, like a servant, but protects her like a bodyguard.
(Continuation of the relationship between XY and SQ/Jing)
While XY is warm and big sisterly towards Shi Qi, she’s less inclined to be friendly towards Tushan Jing.
While listening to the Storyteller Stone Spirit, Shi Qi dressed as Tushan Jing in fine clothes, approaches CX and XY at their table. He came because XY had ignored him and gone over to sit with CX.
He brings XY’s fave gingko nuts already peeled and waits. He only sits when XY accepts his gingko nuts, and continues to de-shell nuts for her in silence. CX is observing all this with a quizzical brow. He still has not figured out that he’s watching a lover approaching his beloved and being a puppy with her.
When the Storyteller relates how beautiful Jing’s wife is, XY crushes a nut kernel in her hand LOL. I guess she wishes she could crush all the girls who’d have the right to marry SQ. She notes that she’d not have the courage to call him SQ anymore as his wife would kill her, so she asks for his name which he reluctantly tells and magically writes for them to see. She asks for his wife’s name which he won’t give her. She likes to taunt people when she feels at a disadvantage. It puts her a step above them when they are discomfitted. It did not work with Serpent, though.
At the end of their tête-à-tête (but with an amused CX listening) XY brings their relationship back into transactional mode: “Six years. I’ve taken you in for six years. You exempt me from six years of rent. From now on, we owe each other nothing.” Jing stands and hangs on to XY’s arm to stop her from leaving but CX intervenes by asking if they should call him Master Qingqiu from then on.
All our dull CX can gather from what he witnessed is that the master is angry that the servant had not revealed his true identity, so the servant should apologise when the master cools down. Heh.
Good morning @GB!
I will respond first to the first part of your commentary.
[I don’t know how to cut and paste from the text of the blog btw – is there a technique? I want to quote you and comment in future.]
I also loved the tender encounter by the riverside with XY and Shiki. There was equality in it and lightness and quiet smiles.
I was enjoying it so much that I was irritated this time when XL interrupted their trist without a ‘By your leave’, demanding XY join him on Air Chubby!!
I was also hoping for a more powerful stand-off between Shiki and Xiang Liu.
It was wise of XY to diffuse the tension. But she also emasculated Shiki in the way she did it. He wants to be her protector. He is probably capable of being her protector – we haven’t seen his full Nine-Tailed Fox powers. XY repeatedly pushes him away when he tries to take it to the next level. She does receive his help and tenderness though when injured and desperate.
XY has girlish instincts but the coping mechanisms of an independent and avoidant male! This kind of pushes Shiki into a different role. Hard to be masterful.
I agree re the ‘puppy’ like quality of YS. When compared with the commanding presence of XL, who takes no nonsense (mostly) – YS appears less convincing as a love interest.
He does temper this puppy-like devotion with gritty stubborness. He WAITS for her in so many ways. He waits when she goes off on her adventures so that he can bring her home and care for her. She is often injured and he brings her to safety.
He is playing the long game.
But it reads ‘passive’ in competition with XL.
I wonder if that is one of the reasons that Shiki shippers have been concerned about loss of some of his scenes in the TV version of the story.
COMMENT on EPISODE 7 WATER DATE
Thank you for this and all the commentaries on Episode 7.
Wasn’t this a lovely date @GB? I quite agree this is the first real date.
I wanted to find a still of this that we could have for this thread.
They look like they are in a children’s book.
They looked like two innocent childhood playmates as they gaze at the sky and the looming Moon.
I am reminded of the childhood posture of CX and XY as they held hands staring at a sunset in the very first episode.
There are important parallels here.
Who is XY’s real soulmate?
XL says that views like this make life worth living. XY says that it is the people you watch the views with who make life worthwhile, in effect.
As you say, this reclusive Serpent Demon has chosen XY to share this beauty with.
XY is a bit emotionally thick!!
Love the use of incidental music in tender XL-XY moments.
FURTHER REFLECTIONS ON EPISODE 7
XY displeases XL with suggestions of a sell-out to the powerful King of Xian….
XY is abruptly ejected from Condor ‘Chubby’ as a result, although XL knows Ye Shiki is waiting for XY and will catch him.
In some ways XY is a greater realist than quietly heroic XL.
Now, in the warm earth tones of XY’s rustic home, XY is snuggled up in her bed.
What a visual contrast with the icy, starry expanse of XL’s date with XY!
Ye Shiki takes care of XY and makes her feel spoiled.
He says he won’t leave her when she teases that she will get used to this and then what will she do when he leaves.
‘Just ignore Xiang Liu. I’ll take care of him in future’ he says.
XY isn’t going to take any notice of this. As you point out @GB, XY has her own plans to take care of things with XL!! A key plot development….
DATES AND QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW XY SHOWS UP ON THEM !
For our ML to be drawn to XY in the way they are – there has to be a lot of female about the man they see before them.
It helps us enormously that our FL, Yang Zi, makes a great Pantomime Boy and combines masculine behaviours with girlish cuteness when required.
I just read – and this takes us a little further into the novel but I think it is worth it – a comment by Jing about XY. As a Nine-Tailed Fox he is very discerning and tells her later that he can tell that XY’s form is mostly real but not the face… What does this mean? Does XY have a man’s face on a well-disguised female body…?
I have decided not to probe too deeply… but the thing is that the feminine must be strongly perceivable for our ML to be falling for her in the way they are.
Hi @Kate, do you set your email notifications to be on for posts? If you do, you will get the posts in the email body. From the email body (not the post in BOD but from the email itself), you will be able to copy the text and paste it into the input box.
I’m getting all your posts in email so I can read the email first before going to BOD to post a reply. I hit the reply button in the email in order for you to see that a reply has arrived (if your email notifications are on).
As far as I know, that’s the only way to be able to copy and paste from the posts. 🙂
@GB – aha! I’ll look into that.
Slow learner here… haha!
Ooh – this is an interesting interview with the actor who plays Cang Xuan:
You’ll see why when he gets grilled for spoilers:
https://youtu.be/vynNIrQAipQ
Oh and an interesting, fun interview with the main leads – talking about the way Yang Zi approaches her role amongst other things:
@Kate, the thing about Xiao Yao’s face when she’s masquerading as Wen Xiao Liu is not actually shown to us. All we see is that her peach blossom birthmark is gone but I believe that we are supposed to imagine that her face was more masculine.
SPOILER
I gathered this when later she tells about how she finds that her face keeps changing and how she cannot remember her true face, so that she cannot keep her true appearance. I’m guessing that among the faces she wore, was one that was more masculine and she just kept that on for 20-30 years.
I, too, was thinking that she was very girlish and childlike in the way she gamboled about when with the guys, as they walked through town. There was something decidedly feminine about her, no matter how she put on the behaviour of a man.
In any case, I feel it was her contrariness, spiritedness, warmth and sincere regard (despite wanting to poison LOL) that won over the hearts of the men. They didn’t fall so much for her appearance but probably more for her heart that they could see underneath all her layers of cynicism, rudeness, crudeness and grumpiness LOL.
@GB – nicely crystallised!
Yes.
That makes sense to me.
@Kate, thanks for the YouTube links. I laughed at their answers in the interviews. What Yang Zi said about how we can pause and replay and analyse every scene is so true! That’s what I do. So she’s under pressure to give her best all through the scene or the viewers will notice!
The other thing that was mentioned was that they are acting with direct sound recording of their voices (finally a Xianxia without voice actors) and that if they didn’t sound right, they had to keep re-doing the scene! What hard work.
Here’s another YouTube vid of an interview with 5 of the leads.
SPOILERS of course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onsViCPOHRg
I was mentioning in my notes that the fight scenes looked so good with Serpent’s hair movement and here Tan Jian Ci mentions how he wanted every hair to be dynamic LOL. I agree with Wang Hong Yi, the characters are so well realised, so relatable that they are captivating. To begin with the original writing must have been very good and the Shows writer really adapted it well.
The conversations are really some of the best dialogues in a Xianxia cdrama, and everything that happens makes sense.
That comment about every hair being dynamic was great! You picked that up @GB.
And how hard TJC worked to create that aura of stillnness. Fascinating.
This is very good brief interview.
NB I’m watching everything now and posting a lot of comments because I am about to disappear off out now for the rest of the day.
Have a good evening and day everyone!
According to Marcus of ‘Marcus here’ – the new Chinese regulations re the 12 month gap between first and second seasons of a show may NOT apply retrospectively to dramas filled earlier.
‘Lost You Forever’ was filmed in 2022 so may – one hopes – escape the new regulations.
@Kate, thanks for the news. We are therefore hopeful.
I’m rewatching Episodes 13-15 now to get the plot straight in my mind. I rushed through it too much to remember details.
I’ve also watched somewhat the latest episodes into Episode 26 and will probably complete up to Episode 28 tonight when it airs. 🙂
Great @GB – you are eating up this show haha!
That will be great too when we are discussing.
I am re-watching Episode 8 today and keeping up with new episodes.
I have stopped reading the novel because I was getting confused about where I was in the story!
@Packmule3 – sorry I did it again please delete my last comment! My name was correct when I added my email – it must have jumped.
Out at my Niece’s birthday party dinner last night I was asked what I was watching at the moment…
Well, I enthused and expounded on ‘Lost You Forever’ and showed them a sequence from the lovely Moonlit date…
My sister in law has similar taste in men to me and she thinks Jing is very handsome! She could also see the appeal of XL.
My brother rolled his eyes…
Hah! @Kate, don’t most viewers prefer XL? He’s so wrong for a boyfriend, but so full of appeal.
Tushan Jing/SQ pathetically pales by comparison, poor chap.
Agreed @GB… XL seems to be hitting it out of the park with most viewers!
POSSIBLE ENDGAME SPOILERS
Reader beware @GB ….this article contains probable endgame spoilers…! Avoid if you don’t want big hints about the plot of the novel. OR avoid reading Koala’s comments at the top.
I am sharing it with you hesitantly because Tan Jianci’s agency has shared lots of moody pictures of him as XL.
This is presumably because he is such a hit in this role.
https://koalasplayground.com/2023/08/08/tan-jian-cis-agency-releases-new-stills-of-xiang-liu-in-all-his-blindingly-white-demon-pain-and-glory/
ps My Sis In Law thought Jing was gorgeous.
But she hasn’t had the whole XL experience! LOL
@Kate LOL, the ‘whole Xiang Liu’ experience is something I’d like to analyse. He’s so complex and contrary, so dastardly and so honourable, we are mesmerised!
I’ve been trying to figure out the Poisonous Bug thing. It’s significant. I’ll post something on it at the appropriate thread later.
Now I’m watching the Jing and Xiao Yao relationship unfold. It’s sweet but why is it less engaging? LOL. Still I like the reveals they share.
@GB – great goal!!
Yes re the Poisonous Bug too.
Let’s think too about the JINGYAO relationship!
Someone somewhere wrote that Xiang Lu and Jing are two halves of the perfect man.
But what about Cang Xuan?
What do these three men represent in terms of archetypal lovers?
Heh @Kate, your comment got me searching for male lover archetypes LOL.
Here’s something for the creative writer. It seems there are at least 4 different archetypes for male characters. I didn’t go in to read in detail but the one on lovers, where they are supposed to exhibit great strength and vulnerability by being flexible, and are akin to father/mentor figures, already has me scratching my head. Well, perhaps if we merge XL with Jing, we might get closer to that kind of ideal lover, whereas CX contains the leftover characteristics that don’t fit? LOLOL.
@GB – that is interesting!
Perhaps – in that case – it is the way our characters disturb or recreate the archetypes OR are unhealed versions of those archetypes??
I just came back from a walk where I was wondering about cultured, intelligent, witty Tushin Jing and what happened to him as a result of torture and imprisonment… How much of the previous character has been crushed and ‘gone inside’ – become hidden in Shiki and new Jing???
Even as I ask that I am not sure whether that is the right question.
Heathcliff.
Based on koalapanda’s word bouquet for this male lead, I’m guessing that XL is a Heathcliff copy. Heathcliff, the male protagonist in Emma Bronte’s “Wuthering Heights,” is the quintessential bad boy.
As such, XL is also a:
Tortured soul
Tormented soul (just as he is tortured, so shall he torture)
Anti-hero
Byronic (but the young generation wouldn’t know who Lord Byron is. Sigh.)
Lucifer, the fallen angel
One giant Red Flag
Monster
Villain, and
Toxic male.
When he’s backlit against the sun and sports a five-o-clock shadow on his face, I’ll no doubt find XL appealing and sexy. But given who I am, I’ll be counting all the ways he’s breaking the rules, laws, ethics, customs, and principles of civilization, and charging him with prosecutable offences by the episode. Poor guy.
In reel life, just like in real life, romance with a bad boy is a nonstarter for me. I’m not inclined to rehabilitate or save lost souls. 🙂
@Kate, funny you should go into Shi Qi’s character, because I’m right now transcribing some of the conversation in Ep 14 where XY finds out that she was wrong about thinking SQ/Jing dull and inarticulate.
He had reportedly been sharp and witty, especially good in business, and excelled in the arts. People lined up to play chess with him, to listen to his music (on the zither?) and see him paint.
The Jing we see now is subdued (although he was never as energetic as his brother) and might be hiding his talents. I wish his spirit power was greater though. 🙄😜
Heheheh @pkml3, I see that you suddenly read about Xiang Liu and read us.
At this stage, whatever the viewership may want, it’s not certain who is endgame. However, soon, the FL will show which direction her heart lies.
XL is certainly guilty of multiple chargeable offences, and not a bit sorry he committed them LOL.
@Packmule3,
That is an interesting parallel! I hadn’t thought of drawing from Bronte.
It would be GreaT if we could get you watching this show btw… but it is rather long!!
I would say XL has some the aura and appeal of the archetypal bad boy.
Actually we see that embodied in a later stage in the show too.
Where he differs is in his strategic discipline and principled commitment to people and causes… Which makes him unexpected…
I don’t know Wuthering Heights very well – other than tv adaptations… but my sense is that Heathcliffe self-combusts as a Byronic romantic.
Is that correct?
Xiang Liu is more of a rational character. With hidden depths of care and concern.
@GB,
Yes, let’s restore the original 3D picture of Jing in that case! Could it be that in filling out the elusive XL the screenwriters lost the opportunity to add dimension and colour to Jing?
Are the outraged Jing fans right to protest at the way his character shows up in this series?
@Packmule3 and @GB,
I don’t know if this sounds nuts but I also see in our ‘bad boy’ something of the medieval Knight in his devoted service of the revered Lady.
🙂 It’s because @Kate posted a link and I had to review it.
(The blog has been getting spammed lately from weird places so posts with link are getting flagged.)
Didn’t this cdrama already passed Chinese censorship? Given that Chinese Ministry of Culture (or whatever the agency is called) is responsible for PROMOTING their cultural values, anything we see on tv would have been pre-approved and found conforming to the societal rules and standards of behavior.
If this XL is the endgame, then it’ll be AFTER he’s been de-fanged and de-clawed, and rendered virtuous by his suffering, punishment, atonement, the girl’s love for him, etc.
It’ll be like the hero’s situation in “Love Between Fairy and Devil” where his crime was expunged because of a combination of love, suffering, and cosmic retribution. I think xianxia dramas revolve around these themes.
@Kate, @pkml3
If Byronic means melancholy, brooding, tortured by his past sins… then no, XL does not really fit the bill.
I agree with @Kate about his unexpected discipline and commitment, and surprising ability to care on one hand while being totally ruthless and without remorse over his crimes on the other. What he does is usually for some fair exchange or to use people. I felt that his most unfair transaction was forcing XY to submit to being at his beck and call.
I’m about to see what he does when XY gets into trouble.
@pkml3, I’m not sure this character can ever be defanged, although I believe he will be made to be less culpable. Unlike Fairy and Devil, where the bad guy did not kill people willfully or for gain, this bad guy is really more wicked.
@Packmule 3 and @GB,
@Packmule – Yes indeed! From all that I have – accidentally – read forward of the story – XL will undergo just such a process. Yes, the LBFD comparison works really well there. This is whether he is endgame or not.
@GB – I am not sure XL is more wicked than the lead in Fairy and Devil.
I can see him in a parallel space.
I may have missed some key background here.
Where do we get our information about him?
Is some of it fake news – local myths about him either to create fear in the enemies of Chenrong or a disrespecting of his status as a lowly demon?
@Kate,
You forgot that serial murderers are very disciplined, organized, and committed to people and causes. 🙂 Their end goals and ways-and-means are just unacceptable to civilized society.
Serial murderers make for great sympathetic characters. In a capable writer/screenwriter’s hands, we the audience can certainly find something likable, relatable, or “simpatico” in twisted natures of an evil person. We can always find a justification for them and a rationale for their actions.
Why?
Because we also possess something twisted and dark and impure and violent in us. We’re all human beings. We share a common affliction.
Or as Shylock would say, “If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?”
🙂
But yes, XL is an updated Heathcliff. Heathcliff circa 2023.
And sorry, this cdrama is too long for me.
@Kate, XL admitted his wrong doing himself and we also see the result of one occasion when he needed medicine to help XY. In contrast, Fairy Devil’s devil never killed anyone on screen although he threatened to. His killing others was understandably during the war.
Lol, @Kate. See that? I don’t have to read or watch this story to know where it’s heading.
I told you: this has the Chinese government IMPRIMATUR on it. It won’t be released if there’s something objectionable about the male lead’s character that does NOT get redeemed and rehabilitated in the end.
You’ve got to understand their general mindset: showing such degenerates on tv go unpunished and unreformed is tantamount to encouraging degenerates to thrive and prosper in Chinese society. That’s a no-no.
🙂 You also have to understand that when you’re watching cdrama, there’s propaganda going on. (And by propaganda, I don’t mean ONLY in the political sense.) Some cdramas are very subtle about their advocacy on life issues. Scratch the surface, and you’ll see it.
@Packmule3,
Thank you. Great counter arguments. Also a very good reminder of our starting point with his Serpentyness.
I find myself resisting Heathcliff as the only lens through which to read him. I am happy to be proved wrong.
I think only the whole ark of the story will give us the complete picture of who XL is and whether he is an updated, Chinese Xianxia Heathcliff or a mixture of archetypal influences with a strong redemption theme.
@Packmule3,
Just saw your comments about propaganda – this is an area of uneasiness when I watch Chinese drama. The product placement and patriotism is one thing… but the more subtle stuff is another.
Thank you for the alert – an important reminder.
That then supports your argument for a Heathcliff archetype. Heathcliff as he would be in a particular regime!
But I still want to see how the story unfolds.
Thank you @GB – I must have missed the XL confession!
I am loving the potential more than the real man…LOL!
We have to give credit to Emily Bronte, though.
She wrote the original and ultimate bad guy. She didn’t waver. She didn’t promise us any rose garden. No redemption, no salvation, and NO APOLOGIES for her guy. Heathcliff loved Cathy to hell and back, and back to hell again to stay.
I hated the book, to be honest. It was too melodramatic for my taste.
But that’s when I learned to use protagonist instead of hero. Heathcliff can’t be a hero in the usual sense of the word, but he’s the male protagonist.
And considering E. Bronte’s background and her social milieu then, she was as gutsy as they come to write a male protagonist like Heathcliff. Though I’m not a literature person so I really can’t evaluate her literary worth, I consider her a true iconoclast and feminist. She pushed the envelope.
The Chinese screenwriter — if he/she had any balls — should have done the same. Go break the mold!
But I get why “redemption” is a big thing in these dramas.
@Packmule3,
YES to all this. Loving this commentary and discussion.
I haven’t read it at all. Loved Jane Eyre – never made it into WH.
Inspired by this discussion, I found a shortish article in Time about Chinese fiction.
It talks about control and escape into myth and fantasy and suggests that within the world of fiction there may also be an element of freedom and subversion too.
I really like redemptive arcs btw… but that might be more of a theological preference!! I loved Spike’s journey in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, for instance. He was never fully transformed but he became able to love someone else sacrificially.
Anyway, in case it is of interest – it sounds like you are up to speed on the whole thing – here’s the link:
https://time.com/6146135/chinese-fiction-boom-political-crisis/
True, @GB.
From what little I saw, the Devil in “Love Between Fairy and Devil” wasn’t a true Devil.
He lacked malice, sadism, and vice which to me are hallmarks of pure evil.
Well I’ve watched Episode 27 and 28, although I won’t talk about them here.
The thing about a character like XL, it’s hard for scenes without him to pop as much as scenes that do. The element of danger he carries with him is heady stuff.
@GB you are ahead of me now.
I am trying to slow down my rate of watching the newer episodes so that I don’t have as long to wait during the gaps.
I so agree about the XL effect and the scenes that ‘pop’ and those that don’t!
@Kate, it’s all I can do to try to catch up on the rewatch by myself so that the earlier episodes inform the later ones and vice versa. I think we really did underestimate our quiet Jing. More on that later.
XL is an intriguing cypher to us, partly also because he wasn’t born human. The fantastical reality of this dramaverse is that anything, even the mulberry tree that young XY watered with wine, (or any object) could gain spiritual awareness and be cultivated into something human-like underscores the characters.
https://koalasplayground.com/2023/08/09/the-gorgeous-cast-of-lost-you-forever-lead-off-drama-promos-in-july-with-charming-visit-to-hit-variety-show-hello-saturday/
I watched Hello Saturday last night! It’s an hour and a half long light entertainment show. They are doing specials over the summer and have had some of the cast of ‘Hidden Love’ and ‘Fireworks of my Heart’ for instance.
They had all the main guys and Yang Zi doing all these funny tasks and being asked embarrassing questions.
Dylan Wang (with unexpectedly high voice IRL) is one of the regular team on the show as is Tan Jianci which helped TJ enormously.
The funniest bit was a segment when the LYT team had to compete against the regulars and learn a short dance routine! I was sat there at 1am trying not to laugh too loudly.
Yang Zi is very bright and ebullient and not unlike her character on the show. She has a very frank and appealing personality. Tan Jianci is confident and funny and quite smooth – more like his FBB incarnation. The guy who plays CX is quite serious and clearly still needing to get used to this type of exposure (poor soul). Fenglong – the actor playing him is young and enthusiastic. Deng Wei comes across as quiet – a little aloof – and possibly quite shy again.
ps Tan Jianci is also quite a serious performer – you can tell that underneath the confident humour is a very focused young man!
@GB – I really like your comment above about the ‘plasticity’ of the dramaverse in which we find ourselves in this show and in general. It’s a pro and a con of Chinese fantasy drama – but in this case a positive methinks!
Of course, we are both now commenting with the benefit of the latest episodes… but that can’t be helped.
I agree with you too re Jing…We must not underestimate this guy. He has some surprising moves…
EPISODE 8 BRIEF NOTES ENCOUNTERS AND CONTRASTS BETWEEN Xian Liung and Tushan JING
Jing waits for XY by the river – who else does waiting so well?
When XL frog marches XY to meet Jing – these two are frequently a comedy duo eh? – I loved the comedy small talk moment by the river. XY is awwkard and XL raps XY’s arm telling him to get on with it and ask for Jing’s support with getting medicinal herbs!
I also found the repeated aquiescence of Jing to XY’s requests VERY attractive in this context.
‘Ok’… ‘Ok ‘Ok’… He was not only making himself available but expressing the ease with which he wanted to be available to XY with all the powers he had as Tushan Jung.
XL looks alert when Jing said ‘You don’t need to pay’… Jung laying claim to the special status of his relationship with XY.
There is even more of a frisson between the three when Jing adds ‘Please don’t thank me any more’. He’s underlining that it is his job to provide for XY with all that that implies.
Later, XL frog marches XY to the Chenrong camp… I loved the Bob Hope style comedy as they arrive. XY is being Bob Hope in a dangerous situation here – he won’t open his eyes for fear of seeing something that will mean they have to kill him. XL is dead-panning but in the end reassures XY that he is not a security risk.
XY is impressed by XL’s role as trainer and strategist for the Chenrong. Something XL claims to be doing because he is bored.
We also see XL performing the last rites when 2 more soldiers die of malaria. All this affords a new perspective for the viewers and for XY…lending XL an aura of nobility… can he – impossibly – be a potential candidate for XY?
Jing meanwhile is supporting XY by providing herbal medicine for the malaria stricken army.
We learn that Jing is going to use a precious material Guixang Crystal to buy herbs from other clans. This is our indication of his generous commitment to helping XY.
Here too in this quietly taken step, we have one of the problems with conveying his character.
No viewer really resonates with the great value of Guixang Crystal and we have to have his servant underline just how precious a substance it is.
Along with asking for wild flowers rather than cultivated flowers, this indicates nevertheless that Jing has strong values and is not materialistic.
‘If it can make him (XY) happy – then why not?’ he asks himself. It is but a brief interlude telling us the story of Jing’s love for XY.
At the same time, as @GB points out, it is difficult for Jing to compete with the way XL is being written into the TV show.
This is about the way we ‘read’ our heroes on TV versus what we might want in real life. Would it be better if we saw Jing striding around reclaiming herbs from the great Clan storehouses? A more vigorous heroism might translate into greater impact.
Later, Jing downplays the cost of the medicinal herbs to XY… this speaks well to me of his tenderness and regard for XY’s peace of mind.
EPISODE 9 BRIEF NOTES
Rather an odd episode with the kidnapping of CX’s beloved sister.
There are all sorts of convoluted reasons for this action – ostensibly to get CX to release herbs that have been stolen from XL after all Jing’s efforts to obtain them from other Clans.
Again the story goes there – this time with CX ordering the brutal torture of XY. This is both to punish XY and to obtain the antidote for the poison XY claims to have given A’Nian when she was kidnapped.
The profound irony of course is that CX is torturing his very own childhood playmate for the sake of the Second Princess.
‘This time I didn’t lose you.’ he muses to himself about having rescued A’Nian from no great harm at all… deep irony.
There is something symbolic about this unintended harm…
XY goes through all incredible pain too that to transmit the second poison bug into CX? I’m not sure this makes sense.
Anyway… having rescued XY, Jing tells her she doesn’t need to face life alone. XY brushes this aside even as she recovers from torture and has been rescued on numerous occasions now by Jing and XL.
We see also see XL doing overtime work (as an assassin) to obtain medicine for XY following her severe injuries at the hands of CX’s team of interrogators. XL then pours out his spirit energy to add additional healing energy for XY. It is clear this is costly and risky for him.
XY has two very different men expressing concern, care and devotion to her.
Both are prepared to show that with behind the scenes acts of concern.
One is more open than the other about why he is doing what he is doing.
XL is a stealth actor in his support for and protection of XY.
p.s apologies for confusing references to Jung in this account!
I, of course, meant to write JING throughout.
All of this discussion of archetypes has messed with my head!
CHAPTER 9 CONTINUED
The end of this episode contains a very important event.
CX comes with his men to attack XY and XL.
Just as XL is about to kill CX, XY who is hiding near by in some bushes, finds the treasured Nine-tailed Fox tail as it falls from CX during the fight.
She realises in horror who CX is and rushes across to protect her childhood brother from death at the hands of XL. So it is XY who receives a near fatal blow from XL rather than CX.
CX can feel the injury but knows that XY has taken it upon herself.
Yang Zi described this as a high point for her from all the episodes shown thus far.
I thought this was such a spine-tingling moment – it was the perfect dramatic way to set up the next part of the story.
Yang Zi acts the desperation and bravery of XY so well.
TWIN POISON BUGS
And finally I only briefly mentioned another very significant theme…the twin poison bugs and the fact that one of them is now housed in CX as a result of XY’s actions!
For the moment, CX can feel the pain experienced by XY and this includes post-torture pain (at his hands) and the pain of her near fatal injuries at the hands of XL.
We are going to reflect further on this theme I know. Super important.
Thanks @Kate for your Ep 8 and 9 notes. I noted the same things but you went a step further in determining what else Jing was saying by his willing ‘OK’s and when he said that XY did not have to pay.
Yes it’s true how Jing seems to be too quiet a hero, to be considered a hero at all. He generally stands still and waits. It’s a difficult job but seems so inert. In all that waiting, I wonder what plans he may have made.
A few Episode 8 scenes made me laugh
Serpent comes upon XY who has just told Jing to go away. He tosses her most unceremoniously out of her chair to ask her whether SQ is from the Tushan family.
As usual XY wastes his time, irritatingly pretending she does not understand. She provokes Serpent until he grabs her neck to show that he means business.
XL : “I wanted to treat you better, but you can always make me want to bite off your neck.” He scares her for good measure by baring his fangs for quite a while.
XY starts mouthing off about how he should be concerned about his image and what demons eat until he sticks his face against her neck and threatens to bite her if she does not confirm if SQ is from the Tushan clan. LOL. (Well she asked for it.)
XY : “If I say he’s not, you won’t believe me.”
He laughs long against her neck which gives her the willies LOL.
XL : “Very good/well” and he tosses her aside.
XY : “Can you please not laugh, it creeps me out.” (Heh, I kind of like his laugh, but of course it was slightly mirthless, so maybe a bit creepy?)
= = =
Then there are two scenes where it’s CX our XY tries to provoke over and over by asking about his maids. This was a sure sign that she was a woman herself (and jealous!) because she was stuck on the fact that as a rich guy, he must have had pretty maids around him.
Perhaps XY was also exhibiting a bit of chagrin that as a woman disguised as a ‘man,’ she would never be as attractive to Jing as an undisguised woman, even if a maid.
= = =
Then one other funny interlude was during the fight with CX when Serpent shouted out the parts of the body he wanted XY to hurt so that CX would feel the pain too. I was chortling. 😂
@Kate, I’ve not organised all the times that Serpent XL manifested moments of being caring. However from Ep 8, I noted that when we had the Bob Hope comedy as you put it, XL had reached out a hand towards XY who had her eyes closed. Perhaps he wanted to touch her to reassure her that she would not be killed if she saw where the base camp was, but he stops short. Perhaps he remembers how she’d cringed at his touch before and even covered her head to protect herself, when he’d only meant to touch her gently.
A was also amused that when she had been forced to go with him to his base camp, she’d been reluctant but made the best of it, saying that she wanted to test a new poison out. True enough when they settle in his tent, he asks her for the poison LOL. She gives him a ‘hundred poison’ pill, which he calmly eats and goes to sleep. Poisons have no effect on him!! She also tried most unsuccessfully to get the Poisonous Bug to enter a sleeping XL.
Her understandable conclusion is that he cannot be poisoned. (What this translates to is that he also cannot be cured by normal medicine… hence he needs her blood.)
When Serpent opens his eyes and asks what she’s doing. She says she wants to see if the poison worked. LOL. She was waiting for him to suffer or die in front of her. He’s completely unperturbed by this.
XL’s only proviso : “If you want to poison me, do it openly.”
And come to think of it, from that time on, she did. (We see in Episode 9, that XY wishes she had planted the bug on XL but he says that with his nine heads it would not work on him even if she was in deadly pain.)
I agree with you that she had 2 shifts of perspective on XL when she saw how hard he worked for a cause that seemed hopeless, and his attitude towards the Chenrong soldiers and their dead. To us viewers, he definitely takes on a warmer persona and we wonder if his coldness hides a warmer personality than he’s willing to show.
XL also prevents XY from donating too much blood to the soldiers, which would endanger herself.
When XY comes up with the plan to get the herbs back without more blood letting (except her own, apparently), we find that XL considers her safety so valuable thatt he gives her 4 men to help her, when only 2 would have been sufficient.
In Episode 9, XL had been injured in the attack on CX as well, but he took on an assassination job to get expensive medicine and pain killers. He gave it all to XY although he himself was weak and injured.
As you noted @Kate, he also gave her his spirit power which he should have been loathed to spare, because he himself was so weak. All this indicates that XL had also cared for XY. It might not have been as much as ‘love’ yet, but he had some genuine concern for her, on top of wanting to keep her alive as his blood bank!
@Kate, a bit more of FUNNY with XIANG LIU AND XY as seen in Ep 9.
XL and Jing’s collaboration to get XY out from CX’s torture chamber is ‘cute’ in that it’s one-of-a-kind. I wonder if they’ll ever work together again.
I kind of like how XL was resistant to helping Jing, until Jing couched the job in terms of business. It was so typical. Jing’s totally unconditional offer was (I felt) too generous. Even XL felt it. I wonder if XL would really make Jing pay. Probably? I found it amusing that XL simply said to Jing “You take care of the saving and I’ll take care of the killing.”
After being rescued and ending up at another part of the base camp, XY complains loudly about the pain in her hands. Serpent hears XY complaining all the time and says cynically that he sympathises with her torturers (LOL) whom she tortured mentally.
XY says she wishes she had planted the Poisonous Bug on XL but he says that with his nine heads it would not work on him. She hurts her hands again and screams. Even Serpent is affected as he steps towards her, but she places her hands in the soothing medicine that Jing had left for her and gets relief. She refuses painkillers because she wants Xuan to suffer with her. If it wasn’t out of character for XL, I think he’d have rolled his eyes at this!
XL is conflicted. He wants Xuan to suffer but he does not want XY to be suffering too. Each time she screams he’s bothered. He thinks her an idiot for thinking that she won just because the bug is in Xuan.
Thank you. So enjoyed these reflections @GB!
COMEDY
I am especially enjoying your relating and highlighting of more comedy moments – between XL and XY.
When you see it all together – there is so much variety
– the mirthless laughter that gives her the willies…. I am laughing here at that!
– knock about comedy (the chair disappearing from under XY),
– funny man to straight man (Bob Hope to XL’s deadpan Bing Crosby)
– the eye roll moments that we imagine would be eye roll moments if XL allowed himself that range of expression…when XY is letting him know very loudly how much in pain she is!
And what about the double entendre, unfunny jokey comment made by XL when they had that discussion about how well XY knew Jing? XY laughed about ‘demon humour’ having an unusual quality!
You’ve made me wonder about comedy and whether XY is the only ML with whom XY has frequent comedy moments.
Does she have comedy with Jing, for instance?
MOMENTS WHERE XIAN LIUNG SHOWS CARE
Yes, that uncertain moment where XL moves to reassure XY and then restrains himself.
XL doesn’t hesitate to eject her from Chubby the Condor or, indeed, help himself to her blood… but he does hesitate to move into a space of tenderness which may be unwanted/misunderstood… The soft underbelly of the Serpent is visible to us, the viewers.
I also agree that XL’s motivation is ambiguous. As long as XY is a source of healing then XL needs to protect her. And, and there is more to it.
*Xiang Liu* … can’t seem to get Serpent’s name into my brain!
Oooh… I just watched Ep 29. Evil is afoot from the usual quarters.
Oooooh….I am forewarned!
A turn in events with Ep 29 and 30. Which is good. I was going to get a bit bored after too much of the happy goings-on.
CHAPTER 10 FIRST HALF REFLECTIONS
Steamy (literally) encounter between wounded XY and XL who is taking care of XY following the near fatal injury.
She is in a hot pool in cave. XL is using medicine and his own spiritual strength to heal her.
Thanks to the twin poison bugs, CX recovering in his room can now feel what is going on when XL is taking care of XY.
As a result, he experiences, indirectly, all the feelings when XL bites XY’s neck.
Xuan is puzzled: ‘Is the guy crazy? With such a serious injury is in the mood to do such a thing?’. In the novel, Xuan experiences the pain of the bite but then the pain ‘transformed into something odd, a shivering feeling of bliss, as if someone were … lightly kissing. https://koalasplayground.com/2014/02/26/lost-you-forever-chapter-6-like-a-familiar-person-has-come/
This is evidence of more than a merely functional relationship between XY and XL.
When XL draws from his own spiritual energy to send XY healing power we notice that he looks quickly behind him to check he is not observed in this act of personal generosity/chivalry.
XL leaves unobserved by the new arrival, Jing. Jing is led there by some sort of guiding light source. Jung carries XY back to his home.
XY is lying in a bed, with posh-looking bed linens and silks. Jing gazes at her in concern. He hears XY calls out for Xiang Liu. Of course, XL was the last person XY saw before she passed out in the healing pool in the cave.
This is painful for Jing – a bit of an occupational hazard for XY’s many suitors!
XY wakes up healed and recognizes the amount of spiritual medicine that has been used by XL and (presumably she guesses) Jing.
‘I heal so quickly. Much spiritual energy must have been used.’
Anyone watching this show will see a pattern here. XY suffers because of the various significant males in her life and she also receives healing and healing energy.
AvenueX said in a, partially helpful and partially irritating, review of the early episodes that she wished XY could just stay happy as the healer at the Rejuvenation Clinic and not go through all this agony because of the men in her life.
XY WAS pretty content in those opening episodes. It has to be said. But there was also a lot of unacknowledged experience and hurt keeping her heart enclosed. Part of the journey is her recovering of herself.
CHAPTER 10 PART TWO
‘He was having a good chat with Ye Shiki not with your master’…
Jing acknowledges the gap between XY and himself. Once reminded of it by Jing’s senior maid coming in and interrupting their hug, XY excuses himself and leaves.
CX shows up for a drink.
What? After the torture he has inflicted on XY?
XY gets up awkwardly – of course she feels awkward, she now knows who CX is.
But I can’t quite stomach XY’s placating behaviour as though she hadn’t been through the past few weeks of suffering because of CX.
Comedy moment – CX to XY ‘Especially when you are injured restrain yourself!’ and CX points at his neck!! LOL
Back at Rejuvenation Clinic – cosy scenes of the team together.
They are eating together indoors.
XL watches XY and her Rejuvenation Clinic team enjoying food and company.
XL is reminded of XY’s pragmatic approach to life and deriving temporary comfort from others who accompany her briefly in this life.
XL the outsider. Another regular theme. He dissapears, dissolving out of view.
XY has drinks with CX – she now knows who CX is
This is so bitter-sweet for XY… I can’t imagine how she controls her emotions. Very well conveyed by actress Yang Zi.
Bitter sweet for CX too as they share his original playmate’s favourite wine.
CX is oblivious to what life has brought to him – he is lost in his own thoughts and strategies.
He is the taker when it comes to XY. Other than wine, he is the recipient of her generosity.
All the men take from XY – but there are varying degrees of reciprocity.
@Kate
Great, thanks so much! You’ve put out Ep 10 and saved me the trouble. I’ve just gotten home and am getting into BOD. I wanted to add to your good summary recap, what I transcribed for fun.
IRONY
CX suddenly walks in on CX and Tian Er, and XY is flustered to have to face her brother whom:
1)she almost had killed and
2)who almost killed her and
3)whom she almost died for LOLOL. The irony! What a combination of almost killing and being killed with one’s most beloved of cousins. What regret would have ensued had either one of them succeeded in the killing of the other!!!
She puts on her smiling face and greets CX.
CX : “Why did you save me?”
XY : “If you die, the poisonous bug inside you will also die. I’ve raised it with great difficulty. I don’t want it to die” (Sounds pretty lame, even to me! But CX pretends to believe her.)
XY says she captured A Nian but did not hurt her. She only tricked her. She says that XL had used her to bait a trap, but she had saved him. XY : “Let’s call it even.”
CX : “When will you remove the bug?”
XY : “When you leave Qingshui Town.” (She does not want him to know that she’s tried but failed to remove the bug.)
She tells him that as long as he does not hurt her, he won’t feel any pain. I call that good insurance against a cruel and ruthless character.
He tells her to restrain her desire when she’s injured LOLOL, much to her confusion. He touches the side of his own neck and she figures it out. Thanks @Kate for giving us the info from the translated work. So it was not just a matter of getting some healing but a source of pleasure for XL!?!
CX thinks she’s trying to control him because if she dies, he will die too. (We bear this in mind for XY and XL, because XY meant the bug to go into XL at first.)
Great @GB! Thank you.
You’ve further underlined the irony of the CX/XL exchange! Lumpen irony! That scene and all that ensues has a comedy dissonance.
And on the pleasure point… pleasure for XY too… it is XY’s feelings that CX is experiencing. So mutual pleasure is involved in the neck bites.
EPISODES 11 AND 12
I’m skipping over some scenes to bring together XY and XL scenes.
XY sees that Fangfeng Yiying has come to be with Jing and is upset. She sort of says goodbye to him (as well she ought to). However Yiying, who is known for her skills in archery, has another reason to be in town.
She gets a birdie image that flies to her, and which transforms into a white fur ball with a message – no prizes for guessing who’s fluffy white flying thing this is.
Message in XL’s voice : “I agree with what you said last time. I will cooperate with you then.” Plans are afoot to assassinate CX.
XL synchronises his timing for Yiying’s attack by carrying off XY unexpectedly on Chubby, and then practically drowning her in the lake during the time of Yiying’s attack. CX is affected by the near drowning of XY because of the Poisonous Bug in him, and almost dies of Yiying’s arrow. His wound won’t stop bleeding.
THE UNEXPECTED UNDERWATER DATE(?)
If XL had not been ruthlessly helping Yiying to kill CX and if he had not been the one to deliberately attempt to drown XY and then save her, it would have been a romantic interlude underwater. In an underwater scene reminiscent of ‘Love Between Fairy and Devil’, XL kisses XY to give her air to breathe.
Out of the water, XL asks XY if she feels pain but she’s concerned that Xuan will feel the pain of her drowning so he pushes her back roughly onto the ground, looking annoyed.
XY : “You really have nine brains but not a single heart!” (Actually he has one that has started to beat for her.)
XL : “Still thinking about others. That means you’re fine. The poisonous bugs are not bad, but they can only make Xuan feel pain.”
XY : “If you kill me and Xuan will die accordingly, you would kill me without hesitation, right?”
XL : “Too bad. I won’t.”
To be continued…
Continued…
At yet another campfire to dry their clothes, XY suddenly gets the idea that demons and bugs must be friends LOL. “So you must have some understanding of poisonous bugs, right?”
She looks up at him winsomely and he ends up staring back at her.
Unbeknownst to her, he had already made enquiries of an old man, Lirong, and found out what he needed to know about the Poisonous Bugs.
XL : “If you don’t want to die, don’t call out the bugs by force. The only method is to lure the bugs to someone else’s body to scourge someone else.”
She says brightly : “The only one I want to scourge is you.” LOLOL. Who knew that speaking of scourging was love-talk. If only XY knew, that by this time, XL’s feelings for her had shifted from being confidants to something closer.
HEART TO HEART TALK BETWEEN XL AND XY
XY is surprised that XL has a conscience for the Chenrong rebels whom he serves. Although XL says the leader of Chenrong is a pitiful fool, leading a group of fools to do pitiful things, XY points out that it is XL who is the fool for doing something he despises.
XL : “I have nine heads, you know. So I’m always a bit complex and contradictory.”
This is the first time he has voluntarily spoken of his many heads.
XY :“Didn’t you always say, that you hate it when others call you a nine-headed monster? The nine heads are your taboo. Whoever mentions it, you will kill them.”
XL : “But you’re still alive.”
XY :“For now.”
He gives her the side eye from time to time.
XL : “What I hate is not them talking about me being a nine-headed monster, but their underlying contempt. I allow you to mention it because you make fun in your mouth, but in your heart, you have never thought that a nine-headed demon is weird.”
She turns to look at him and he looks away.
TENDER MOMENT?
XY : “I used to be weirder than you.”
XL :“So you hid in the deep mountains, and dared not meet anyone.”
XY : “Em/Yes.”
EPISODE 12
He reaches out to touch her gently on the head, a sign of camaraderie between weird people.
XY : Are we having a heart-to-heart talk under the moon, trying to get along?”
XL : “Before you irritate me again, I suppose we are.”
XY : “What a pity. Harmonious moments are always short. Beautiful things never last long.”
XL : “Who once said, no matter how beautiful the view is, it will become dull if we watch it for too long?” (XY had said that before)
XY goes home to sleep. XL looks at his hand that had touched her. He is aware of how he feels about her.
To be continued…
EPISODE 12 XL and XY Continued …
XY had first said goodbye to SQ/Jing who had his fiancée with him, then she says goodbye to CX, whom she thinks she may be seeing for the last time. She’s left with XL.
XL is strangely willing to go into the bug removal business with XY. (LOL)
XL : “Your poisonous bugs are indeed rare. I have told you before. The only way to remove the poisonous bug from Xuan is to lure it into another person.”
She comes closer to him to ask : “So what kind of person would meet this condition?”
He does not want to answer her but we get a flashback of his talk with Lirong.
Lirong: “They (the bugs) are extremely difficult to raise. If one is male and the other is female, equal in power, the raiser cannot control the poisonous bug. Mostly women raise it for their lovers, hoping for eternal and loyal love. Once planted, the couple will live and die together. So it’s also called love poisonous bug.”
(XL is not happy that the eternal love XY experiences should be with CX).
XL : “How to remove them?”
Lirong: “The planting of it relies on affection, so does the removal of it. If it hasn’t been planted for long, and it’s not yet stable, it could possibly be transferred to another person. >But this person must have love in his heart. The love poisonous bug demands not only your life but also your heart. You have nine lives but you have only one heart. Once you give your heart, you can never take it back.”
We come back to the present.. XY gets in XL’s face to ask what kind of person would meet the condition.
XL lies probably for the first time : “I don’t know.” (He refuses to tell her that affection between a couple is needed to draw the bug into the host.)
XY : “Are you eligible?” XL looks away.
XY : “You’re a nine-headed demon. You should be able to lure the poisonous bug out, right? You said it, you’re a nine-headed demon, any pain I suffer would be nothing to you. Can you do me a favour and lure the poisonous bug into you? Please, please…”
He stands up and agrees to host the bug, with a condition.
XL “I can help you, but you have to promise you’ll help me with one thing in the future. As soon as I say it. You can’t refuse.” (Hmmm… this opens the way to heartbreak … maybe he’ll ask her to kill him in the future? Oh dear.)
She adds her provisos… she would not kill Xuan or Tushan Jing or the Kings of Xiyan or Haoling.
XL says dryly : “I must be out of my nine minds to think that you can kill both the kings.” LOL.
They make a deal. If she breaks the oath all her pleasures would turn into pain, all her happiness would turn into sorrow. (He really drives a hard bargain.)
They go to Wushen mountain to get close enough to lure the bug out of CX. XL and XY decide to go by air Chubby and then by sea in huge Clam. At the Haoling, Sea of Wushen Mountain, they emerge in a beautiful clam shell.
XL looks at XY as she starts the chant. It’s obvious that he no longer wants her to keep the life-death love link with CX, and prefers to have it for himself. He seems to have given his heart to XY and is willing keep their connection. The bug enters XL in a flash and CY is stunned that the bug entered him so quickly.
The walnut in which the bugs were housed has disappeared. I believe that means that the bugs are irrevocably stuck in XY and XL.
@Kate, I mentioned that I had some thoughts about the significance of the Poisonous Bugs. I wanted to figure out the logic.
CONJECTURE ABOUT THE POISONOUS BUG
At first, the bug refused to enter XL. At that stage, XL made use of XY to get healing blood, but had no strong regard for her.
When XY was tortured in CX’s dungeon, she managed to send the bug to enter CX instead. That was probably because CX had a brotherly affection for XY.
By the end of Episode 12, XL cares enough about XY that he goes out of his way to find out how the bug might be removed. Hearing that the bug’s desire to be hosted is also contingent on love between hosts, XL lies (I believe he knew at this stage it was a lie) that he would not get hurt even if XY was injured. He sees to his chagrin and disgust, that XY does not want him to kill CX, although she planted the bug in him. He’s possibly jealous.
Having become emotionally attached to XY, XL decides to break XY’s life-death love connection with CX and take it upon himself. By this time he has seen that XY would do all she could to keep CX from dying. Although the easiest way for XL to kill CX is by killing XY, her refuses to do it.
Instead, by taking on the bug himself, he’s allowing her/fate to control him. (As in the case of ‘Love Between Fairy and Devil’) XL will have to watch over and protect XY or risk being ‘scourged’ (LOL), or risk death when she is attacked.
His decision was a complicated mix of business and pleasure, sacrifice with risk and a chance to keep XY for himself. He sealed the deal by demanding a mandatory fulfilment of a wish from XY with terrible consequences should she default on it. At the same time, unknown to her, he risked being injured and being killed. And since there was no way XY would want to transfer the bug to anyone else, she was going to be tied to XL for life.
At this stage XL’s future gets more cloudy and uncertain, and likely darker.
Beautiful commentaries @GB and also made me laugh out loud at various points.
Thank you.
Just a few comments – I haven’t got a lot to add.
I laughed at the ?s you highlighted concerning the unexpected water date (?)!! So many reasons for this date not to be a date and yet…! LOL
Those underwater scenes with XY and XL scenes do indeed evoke LBFD.
I enjoyed the dialogue you transcribed from their heart to heart and their tender moment. There’s something so poignant about their times together.
I also enjoyed reading your thoughts about XL’s reasons for being open to a shared twin poison bug deal! Makes a lot of sense – XL is being triggered into a deeper commitment by what he experiences of XY’s ties with other men.
XY is of course foolishly ignorant of what she is getting into – more of a magician’s apprentice than a wise women in this case!
Of XL you write: ‘His decision was a complicated mix of business and pleasure, sacrifice with risk and a chance to keep XY for himself.’
Great description of his motivation @GB.
Voluntary loss of control/independence – this is deep stuff for XL. Despite XY’s flippancy and gung ho approach.
Is XL aware of all that might be involved? It sounds like he has a very good idea and is aware too of what you describe as a more ‘cloudy and uncertain’ future.
Does he know more than we the viewers do at this stage? My guess is that he may have more information.
I wonder, too, like you, what XL has in mind when he makes the deal and the open-ended request to XY.
He makes a similar request later of someone else… you and I know where that happens in the story.
@Kate Thank you for all your kind comments. I am always delighted if anything I post can make anyone laugh LOL.
I’ve received your full post in email and am able to copy and paste it here. I will blockquote sections of it in my reply.
That’s what these Shows that want us to have Second Lead Syndrome always do so well. They give us poignant moments between various combinations of twosomes. They make us feel that she’d be loved by A and B, but we prefer the more dangerous, bad boy. Worse of all, Show will redeem bad boy so that he’s not sooooo bad. I have to be clear about being in viewer mode and in mum mode… I still won’t introduce bad boy to my daughter!
This is an interesting point. It raises the question about how deep a commitment he would have wanted at the start. I recall with aversion that he had XY beaten into submission, so that she agreed to supply him with poisons/medicine. I presume his intention with the first 20 beatings was to disabuse XY of thinking she could be funny with him and get away with it. But she had only asked for a drink out of thirst.
He had wanted her to be his permanent supplier, although he had promised nothing in return. She was to obey his summons, no matter what. I wonder what her 2nd and 3rd conditions might have been, before she agreed. In the end she gave up those conditions, because of the next 20 beatings, and only had 1 condition.
If the Show does not tell us about the way the blood sucking made both XY and XL feel, ie that it was both pleasurable as well as a needed boost to health, then all we know is that XL was triggered by XY’s closeness to other men or rather their attachment to her.
However knowing from the novel that XY and XL enjoyed their blood sucking times, makes me consider that XL would really loathe to lose XY for more than just health reasons. He’d be extremely jealous that any other man gets to have pleasure in her company. Even should she be married to someone else. Can you imagine… he’d be kidnapping her from her husband from time to time!!!
If XY had known that putting the Bug in Person A meant that were she married to Person B, A would have been privy to her intimate moments with B, I believe she would never have used the Bug. I believe that XL had figured this out from Lirong.
Knowing that the Bug would mirror the pain/pleasure sensation of XY in the man who has the other Bug, would indeed be strong motivation to keep the Bug within the ‘family’ LOL. Actually it makes total sense. Between two lovers, the pleasure and pain of 1 half of the couple would automatically affect the other half. It would keep them close, make them take care of each other and any pleasure would be multiplied because both would share in it concurrently.
It’s maybe noteworthy that the bug only affected the giving of pain/pleasure in one direction. However the love, it seems, had to come from the other direction. CX had to love XY in some way or the Bug would not have entered him. Until XL loved XY, the Bug avoided him.
In the beginning, without knowing the full extent of connection that the Bug required, XY probably had thought that since she already was XL’s person, it didn’t matter that he had the other Bug. He’d have had to keep saving her anyway, to keep his ‘person’ safe for his use. The relationship of utility based on threats and coercion had become one of binding ‘love’ magic. The latter would hide the fact that XL had come to care for XY.
I believe that the reason the Bug entered XL so easily was that he was completely willing, and his love for XY was not just brotherly affection, but a romantic love that the Bug would home in on.
Brilliant analysis @GB! You have extended the picture of what is going on here.
Like you, I don’t think XL wanted a deep commitment at the start. He was bored and lonely, interested – intrigued. Then he discovered that XY provided a supply of healing blood. The deeper commitment must have crept up on him by stealth. He found himself able to be open about himself with her.
Was there a turning point??
Was it when she spoke about being abandoned by everyone? Did he find a point of deep identification with her then?
That turning point could also have been the prospect of loss of XY to another man that you are outlining. It brought everything into sharp relief for XL.
I hadn’t thought about a) the possibility of brief XL supply visits to XY if she was married to someone else…or b) the experiencing of her emotions and responses to another man!
I agree with your final analysis about why the Bug entered XL so quickly and easily.
Or was it his admiration for XY who was prepared to risk so much for Freckly, Pimply and later to risk all for CX??
ON SUMMONING OF BUGS: FROM THE NOVEL
This is part of the novel’s account of what happens following the sharing of poison bugs? Does it suggest something like destined soulmates (not necessarily marital mates, and some previous connection??
‘After some time Xio Liu felt his own heart start to beat wildly, and incredibly he felt another heart beating as well. The two hearts were like friends who had not seen each other in a long time, beating wildly in joy to be together. Xio Liu reached out his hand and pressed it on Xiang Liu’s chest, and it was indeed the sound of Xiang Liu’s heart.’
https://koalasplayground.com/2014/02/27/lost-you-forever-chapter-7-people-become-far-away-and-the-road-becomes-long/
‘
p.s The first sentence is not a question. *This is part of the novel’s account…. bugs.*
@Kate thanks for your positive strokes and encouragement. The dialogues were fun to transcribe and the analysis just leapt from there.
I agree with you that probably the most outstanding characteristic of XY’s that XL would have noticed and liked was her consideration for her found family, her great sense of responsibility towards them (XL had that same sense of responsibility towards the rebels) and possibly her desire to be just a simple physician, without status.
Yes, I do believe you’re right about the turning point where XL changed from being merely pleased to have a confidant in XY, to appreciating how he valued her. It was likely when she could tell him her backstory which resonated well with his own. I feel it was her bravery in dealing with him over and over in the face of threat, and her willingness to serve his need for healing blood, without his needing to take by force.
His eyes might have been opened to his own feelings that time when he wanted to stroke her head and she cringed and covered her head. The chagrin he felt at being feared by her must have informed him.
@GB – well, transcribing dialogues is clearly a great method for your getting to the heart of the matter! It is illuminating.
Yes to all these factors in causing him to admire and like her.
Good point re the eye opener. You write: ‘His eyes might have been opened to his own feelings that time when he wanted to stroke her head and she cringed and covered her head. The chagrin he felt at being feared by her must have informed him.’
You could tell watching XL that that moment really hit home. XY couldn’t disguise her automatic reaction.
A few more adhoc notes that I left out, before moving on to Episodes 13-18. 🙂
Thanks for the link to Koala’s Playground and the account of the Go/Weiqi game where Jing is able to save all of XY’s bad moves. I agree that it’s true, the word ‘No’ hardly ever passes Jing’s lips when it’s what XY wants to do. That make me feel he’s just a doormat LOL. I really feel it’s a bad idea to think that showing love means one has to pamper and give in to every whim of the other party. Each should respect themselves as well as the other party.
I guess it’s later on (EPISODE 14) that Jing only makes one request of XY, but it’s a biggie.
THE UNDEWATER DATE (EPISODE 12)
With the bug safely in XL, XY and XL head for home, but perhaps XL decides to treat XY to a different method of underwater travel (we later find out that demons in water is a ‘normal’ thing) and they go from submarine Clam to underwater walking Bubble LOL.
As they move along in the water, XL looks at XY most of the time. He laughs when she gets her finger snapped on by an anemone that looks like a sea flower. He holds her hand so that she can touch the anemones and make them open. He gazes at her and smiles at her wonder. When she turns to look at him, she’s surprised to see the expression on his face. So he lets her hand go and moves away.
Thanks for these additional notes @GB!
I did enjoy the XL tenderness in the underwater date. It’s great to have it underlined.
Personally, I have find some of the ‘Jing aquiescence’ moments attractive because they came from a place of offering provision and claiming a stake in XY’s life. So in these moments, for me, he is being strong and masculine.
Other moments, strike me the way they strike you. I am not in favour of endless, unconditional pampering – look where it got the Second Princess!
So, I have to work harder to appreciate Jing in this story – as it is being told for TV at least!
Is it Tong Hua’s notion of what XY needs that lets us down with Jing? In other words, has TH designed a love – in Jing – which is constant, unconditional etc in order to be the healing for XY’s experiences of rejection and abandonment? In so doing has TH created a character who cannot sustain our interest?
OR do we need to understand Jing in the context of Xio Liu? In other words, none of the male leads are the complete deal.
AND OR do we need to read the novel to ‘get’ Jing better?
One other thought re Jing as we see him in the tv show… DW is a newish actor and I was reading a discussion about his range as an actor.
He does all the close, ‘puppy love’ scenes so well and with such transparency.
Does he, the actor, show his Nine-tailed Fox claws sufficiently, though, when faced with rivals? It may be that he is too deadpan at those points.
DW is a trained dancer. He brings all that poise and quiet presence.
But – possibly – under-represents Jing’s other facets.
@GB – useful additional points re the poison bug and XL hiding its impact. Thank you.
@Kate, I suppose Jing should get his own appreciation post as a pretty good boyfriend. 🙂 Looking back, we know he entered the relationship with XY at a disadvantage. He was the recipient of her care and beholden to her. He chose a role that was subservient to her. He likes this role so well, that he does not want to stop being Shi Qi. As Shi Qi, he has to be obedient to her always, and so he still is… he’s her ‘Yes man’.
I suppose his character is so unlike his horrid brother’s and even XY states later that he’s too kind and soft-hearted unlike herself and CX. It’s hard for him to take the commanding masculine stance with XY. That’s why the times he stands in front of her to protect her, and when he’s the jealous male admirer, sort of stand out. All the other times he’s just soulfully looking at her like a pup.
Possibly one needs to read Tong Hua’s version of Jing to know what she had in mind for his character and personality. In this adaptation, we only know that knowledgeable readers complained about his watered down character, but we do not know what he was meant to be like or why his character was changed. I agree that his role might have been set as bland and consistently so, to act as the ‘balm’ to counterbalance the trials of XY’s life.
As for Deng Wei’s range, I have no clue. I personally will not read up the translated novel, but if you do, I’d be glad to know if the differences in novel Jing and show Jing are significant. I fancy they won’t be, unless parts of the plot are greatly changed.
I agree with you in liking that Jing did always deliver on his promise to XY. He gave her what ever she needed, he kept his word in going or being with her, no questions asked! And he retained a stake in her life. I guess that was a pretty masculine thing to do. I like that he prepared, so that he could return to her as a free man to claim her for himself.
I find the most touching and also manly thing he admitted to, was how he felt reborn as a man, when he saw XY’s blush at seeing his body. Despite the scars, she had still seen him as a man. He was so grateful, that he committed himself to her, letting her name him, as if he were her pet. From that odd beginning, Jing has come a long way. He has reasserted himself as the master, is able to command his people and trade for what he wants, while still retaining the softness and subservience of Shi Qi.
I kind of like your idea that none of the male leads on their own is the complete deal. Perhaps it is only fitting for XY to be surrounded by 3 (of the 4) men. However, I still want an alternative scenario where she can regain her powers, and knock out all those baddies by herself! LOL.
@Kate, as always, you are most welcome!
Really good thoughts on Jing @GB.
And that key moment when XY blushes ‘beetroot red’ according to the novel… Jing experiencing that as such a profound affirmation of him as a man… is an early highlight of this show.
At some point, I’ll read the whole book and report back on Jing – especially on things we have lost in the TV show or in the way he is being presented by DW.
The advantage of our various male leads is that they don’t have to be the whole package! We see XY behaving so differently with the various men.
@pkml3, I made a mistake thinking the scenes I mentioned at 8:17 and 8:26 were from Episode 12… they are from episode 13, more or less. Part of the 8:17 post is from Episode 12 but the part titled JING AND XY belongs with Episode 13. Please move my comment to the next thread, if you can conveniently do so. My apologies and thanks!!!
😯 😬 🫢 🫡 🤗 😇 😯 😬 🫢 🫡 🤗 😇 😯 😬 🫢 🫡 🤗 😇
Done, @GB. 🙂
8:17 post:
Transferred the section beginning with “Jing and XY” to Ep 13 OT thread.
8:26 post:
Transferred the whole comment to Ep 13 OT thread.
Ya’ll, I’m so happy that this thread is still active. I tried several times to start the show last week but barely made it through 2 eps because real life was so dang busy. But I was able to watch eps 3-12 yesterday so yay! I then re-read all the comments on eps 1-6 and read the comments on 7-12 last night, thinking that I would just have to read all the exposition and not be able to participate since I’m so far behind. I was surprised this morning to see new comments, and excited to find that I’m almost caught up to @GB 😀 I should be able to watch the next 6 eps today .
I want to tell you both, @GB and @Kate, how much I appreciate your insights. I plan to read the novel after the drama ends and will probably go back and rewatch the drama after that to see if my perception of things changes any.
I find that the appeal of XL – to me – is in anticipating and seeing how his love for XY will change him and wanting him to be rewarded for that change.
I’ve got to go, time for church, but I’ll be back after lunch.
My dear @pkml3, your efficiency impresses even a Singaporean like me! LOL.
Thanks for undoing the mess. 💐 🌈 ☀️ 🪷 💐 🌈 ☀️ 🪷 💐 🌈 ☀️ 🪷
@Stacy, I’m delighted to know that our conversation has augmented your viewing pleasure. I do appreciate it greatly when any lurkers pop up to say high and better still if they delurk altogether and join us!!!
Please do come back often and add your thoughts. I’m going back slowly to rewatch while rushing through to the end as well to know how the show goes. It’s terribly time-consuming but so much fun!!!
Yes, I’m sure that the majority of us are watching to see how XL gets redeemed and if he ever gets a chance to be the boyfriend. Regardless of his success, we glory in every attempt he makes to date the girl. LOL.
Have a great Sunday and a blessed time in Church!
@Stacy – yes agreed!
Great that you have got into the show and do add your thoughts if and whenever you fancy!
I’m also watching XL’s progress with great interest! haha
XL FALLING IN LOVE?
Just putting this here by way of passing thoughts as I re-read some of my notes of Episode 6 and re-watch Episode 7. There was a question of when Xiang Liu fell for XY when she looked like a man. (I’m sure many others have written up their version of this on their own blogs etc. I didn’t go around to look which would have been a nice short cut. Any way, what came to my mind…)
– From the beginning XY intrigued XL because even to his face, she dared to set conditions, and make requests/demands, plus her skill at poisoning the almost un-poison-able Chubby impressed him.
– He knew she was a woman, hiding something.
– By episode 4 they were on ‘friendly’ chatting terms and open with each other. He asked her questions about herself and she was happy to tell him more. In the threatening and cowering there was also the push and pull of play. She did draw on his face after all, risking his wrath.
– He finds out that her past was similar to his in their being abandoned, ill-treated, caged and that they’d escaped their past.
– XY didn’t mind healing him with her blood.
– XY openly told XL that she was trying to poison him and he didn’t mind.
– In episode 6 she said she didn’t mind him tormenting her because she was lonely.
XL : “You mean I am like that Snake (who had wanted to eat her). We’re both the games for you to alleviate loneliness.”
XY : “Who knows. Perhaps to you, I am the snake that amuses you.”
In episode 6 she also mentioned the moon that had not changed in over a thousand years. “Even the most beautiful scenery becomes boring over time.” He had looked at the moon and at her.
– By episode 7 both the mortals under XY’s care have been married off after a great deal of effort on XY’s part to get them dowry and their brides.
XL suddenly turns up and asks XY to come out with him. Perhaps he recalled what she said in episode 6 because there was no reason for his calling her out. He might have been lonely.
To his questions she tells him her sad story of trying to commit suicide after painfully losing her spirit power, before changing her mind to wanting to kill her captor, the gumiho. He is surprised that even she entertained the thought of killing herself and that she’d suffered a great deal. His expression changes subtly. He reaches out to touch her, (I assume in commiseration), but she instinctively covers her head in fear. He recalls how he’d been the same and touches her neck gently instead, which surprises her.
Perhaps it was because she’d mentioned the moon before, but this time, for no apparent reason, XL takes XY on a walk over the lake to watch the moon rise. As if to fulfill a wish.
XL says surprisingly as he looks at the moon : “Life is precious as long as we can enjoy such views.”
XY : “Even the rarest scenery would become dull if seen too much. It will only be meaningful if there’s someone by my side.
XL looks for some time at XY and then looks down at their clasped hands. They were the people at each other’s side to give the scenery meaning. She seems to be unaware of his scrutiny. He observes her enjoyment of the moon and smiles slightly.
It was in the course of hearing her backstory, trusting that what XY said of her past was true, and seeing how she still put in so much energy to care for others although she had been tortured in the removal of her spirit power ie in the time between Episodes 4-7, that XL probably fell in love with the person of XY, although he didn’t even know how she looked as a woman.
EPISODE 7 where CX as Xuan and Tushan Jing in fine clothes are listening to the Storyteller Rock: just because XY mentions to CX that gingko nuts were hard to peel, Jing peels a bunch and brings the peeled nuts to XY. He won’t sit down until she accepts a nut from his offering and eats it. I find his behaviour too doting, too indulgent, too cloying LOL.
Ultimately I find both CX and Jing overly indulgent with XY when she’s a woman. But she didn’t seem to mind!!!
Dear @GB,
I so relish hearing accounts of XL’s love trajectory! Thank you.
I was struck too by what Tan Jianci said about XL not understanding love and how to express it. A measure of awkwardness as he reaches out to XY.
Didn’t TJC say at some point that XL is cold but not uncaring.
When we see him petulant or hurt because of XY’s occasional thoughtlessness… we know this is no dispassionate person.
And of course that lovely line in the TJC interview (I think) about one of his qualities being absolute loyalty to the person who helps him.
The Moon Scene
That scene with the two of them looking at the moon had the quality of a children’s book illustration. There was a simplicity, innocence and trust between them as they stood there unencumbered by other aspects of their lives.
@Kate,
Don’t mention it dear Kate, it was a pleasure to put thought into words.
Yes, I believe that TJC did speak of XL being a feeling creature, unused to being in love.
Some exerpts on that part of the interview:
Tan Jian Ci: “…I must present to the audience the image of him that I envisioned. I must present the fiery passion in his heart that I imagined to the audience.
This was something I was endlessly discussing with the directors. I said I don’t want to play an ice cube. I don’t want to play a person who only speaks with a cold face. …, I want you to feel his energy – the energy in his heart, not just his coldness. I said coldness does not equal cruelty. … He is not a piece of wood. He is always conveying his emotions everywhere. He just doesn’t know how to express them … I think he doesn’t know how to express love. I think he is learning to be human.”
Yes, he feels pain. He was able to empathise with XY when he heard her story of abandonment and ill-treatment. It drew him to her, because he was moved by her sufferings, having remembered his own. In the same way, he’d be hurt by her indifference or careless words, and he’d push back in some way like punishing her with a bite or going off angry.
The excerpt is : “When he met XY, he was learning to feel love gradually. Just like how Hong Jiang saved XL, XL would use his whole life to repay. It’s the same when it came to XY. His charm is that if you help him once, he would spend his whole life replaying you.”
I’ve done some screenshots of the Moon Scene… will put them into a Word doc and leave it in the Google drive for fun.
Hi @Kate
Here are some screenshots of the innocent storybook-like, ‘fairytale’ view of the walk to view the moon.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AbTT9bmJzk8BSnc3u8q3S7Oo84mOo3G4/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=107152512466791964570&rtpof=true&sd=true
So pretty, but with mixed emotions because while admiring the view, XL appreciated it enough to find life precious, while XY was thinking too much of the same would be dull and that scenery took its meaning from the company one saw it with. The scenery derived meaning from people who would enliven it. He was all for appreciating the moon on its own, while XY didn’t want to be alone for a long time looking at the moon.
I feel that XL’s look at their clasped hands and the smile on his face meant that he was pleased to be the company she derived meaning from, for that moon scene.