Ibisfeather asked sorbetdream this question:
Still puzzling here over Jin Qi’s odd denseness. Script, actor?
Here’s my pithy answer: Tong Hua.
Because one of the screenwriters is Tong Hua. 😂
And here’s my long answer –
This cdrama adapted an original novel by He Yanshan. Title: Lan Xiang Yuan (兰香缘) Google translation: Bond of Orchid Fragrance. The novel was turned into a script by Xiao Lou and Tong Hua.
I’m not steeped in cdramas, but even I know that Tong Hua is the bigger name of the two. Google says that Xiao Lou wrote “Love of Nirvana” (2024), but Tong Hua had a hand in these two, nay, three blockbusters. Hold your breath now…
“Scarlet Heart” (2011) and its Korean remake “Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo”
“Lost You Forever” (2023)
According to mydramalist, she immigrated to the US in 2005, and she lives somewhere in New York. This explains why sometimes I perceive bits of “westernized” outlook in this drama.
What’s the common denominator here? I would say “unresolved pining.”
I didn’t watch any of these shows but I read enough comments here and there to know that “the course of true love never did run smooth.”
In “Scarlet Heart,” the female lead traveled back in time and fell in love with the Fourth Prince. But they became estranged because of his ruthlessness and persecution/execution of people she loved. In the end, she died from a broken heart and returned to the present world. Still heart-broken, she suffers a second blow as she can’t escape her painful memories. Meanwhile, back in the world she left behind, the Fourth Prince ascended to the throne. But it was a hollow victory for him. Or should I say “haunted” victory? He pined for her forever.
As far as I know the ending remained the same for the Korean version. IU dies in the past and returns to the modern world with her memories intact and her heart shattered. It’s a one-two punch for her. As for the king, played by Lee JoonKi, he bears his tragic fate alone. He gained the whole kingdom but forfeited his soul … errr …his soulmate. They both long for each other, across time and space.
That’s the theme of “Lost You Forever” (LYF) too. Lol. The title itself indicates pining for somebody for all eternity.
Also, similar to “Scarlet Heart” and “Moon Lovers,” there’s a reverse harem trope in this cdrama. The heroine Xiao Yao has more than one suitor. She ends up with Tushan Jing whom most viewers consider as the “safe choice.” He isn’t at all power-hungry like the Fourth Prince. His ultimate priority is just to be her rock and fortress. As viewers point out, he represents stability and permanence, two things that XY craved the most.
On the other side of this emotional seesaw is the crowd-favorite, Xiang Lu. While Jing’s actions reflect his noble and mercantile roots, Xiang Lu behaves like the ruthless war general that he is. He employs both physical and verbal abuse on the heroine purportedly to toughen her up for survival when he’s no longer there.
I didn’t tell @GB and @Kate who discussed this cdrama extensively on this blog that I always thought the “Lost You Forever” was a foreshadowing for Xiang Lu. Like the Fourth Prince, he wasn’t meant to be with the heroine.
Now, do you see where I’m going with this?
Scholar Han represents the “safe choice” in this drama. In my opinion, Tong Hua has dialed back (or toned down) those forceful and harsh characteristics of Xiang Lu that many viewers admired (but dare I say that they were veering towards brutality?).
JinQi is still tunnel-visioned and goal-oriented when it comes to LanXiang. He isn’t afraid to wield power and the power-behind-the-scenes to get what he wants. But he doesn’t use physical force or verbal abuse as his “love language” like Xiang Lu. Instead, he lets his
romantic delusions,
daydreams,
imagination,
naivety,
optimism,
denseness,
desperation,
or whatever you want to call it, run wild.
Take this scene in Episode 28. Okay, I’ve heard of indirect kissing, but this? It steals the show.
I hope, however, that he doesn’t have to pine forever for LanXiang like the other males heroes so we can have our happy ending.
All things considered, I see Tong Hua attempting to redefine the romantic hero. I see her balancing the qualities audience like to see in their male lead with qualities she finds attractive and/or morally acceptable in men. I see her creative progression in JinQi, and that’s okay. He isn’t perfect, but we’re all works-in-progress, anyway.
I am happy you put up the wedding night of Jin Qi — it made me laugh!
I have been interested in the Tong Hua/ HUang YingXiang POV, because it seems pretty clear to me that they decided to 1. do a really great old-fashioned length slowburn with great social history, but also 2.not drop the ball on women’s history as well. So they leave lots of space to think-in/talk-about surrounding the situations of all the women in the show. Wonderful verisimilitude with very historically correct motivations, but also typical playwright tricks, putting provocative things that a modern audience enjoys talking about in the voices of minor characters or villains.
The only thing is, as a result I have a hard time understanding poor old Jin Qi. He doesnt get any of those dialectical parentheses that the girls get. You called him the Orchid in the Night, I called him Mr.Wooden Top (elsewhere).
The plot also has a lot of discussion points surrounding duty, responsibility, compassion, resentment and anger (the nods to neoConfucianism (urgh) and to Buddhism). I have only watched up to 37, so maybe these may enter more clearly into how their relationship finally develops.
Yes, I snickered at the bed scene, too.
I get the indirect kiss trope, but indirect bed sharing??! That’s the first time I’ve heard of it, let alone seen a male lead gloat about it. So cheesy of him (and the writers).
I was amused too when Lanxiang did an eye roll and covered her head in second hand embarrassment.
Just finished Ep 28 so moving on.
Oh heck, one more comment. You imply, I guess, that the writer and director are responsible for intrusive modern elements, because they are westerners, or Chinese persons who have lived for longer or shorter times in New York or Florida.
I actually think it is the reverse. The much larger audience for this show is hundreds of millions of women in China. The elements of the story which allow modern women to empathize (questions of power, safety and agency, mainly) are there for them, not for us.
In context there, where the most milquetoast feminist analysis can get one disappeared, the pressures women face are common to all and generally the idea of ‘woke’ feminism being a bother is unlikely.
While sometimes I meet in discussions younger Asian women who get really disgruntled at ‘cute’ palace stories, in context I think their moms and aunties are probably quietly supportive of their own dear family members for whom the romanticization of the Neo-Confucian household and/or imperial concubinage is a cruel joke.
No politics and no legal shows?
More on the ‘modern ideas are coming from within China, not from withiut’ line of thought…
a post from the mdl comment section I made yesterday..
“I have been reading about an effort to redefine neo-Confucianism to fit modern needs for gender equality, sort of. Relationships of care vs hierarchy, moral friendship in marriage and the same self-cultivation once preserved for men only..
Versus the time-tested tendency to frame fixed power relationships as reflective of the ‘natural’ order etc. I see a bit of the reframing in AtC. The old-style neo-C is the subject of comedy and satire. Jin Qi’s Dad and Uncle. “I am a Marquis now!”
The Buddhist practice we see is overtly Pure Land, correct for Ming-Style. But “against the current ” is basic from the source ( Pali texts?). And it suits not only Lan Xiang’s caution in love, but also Jin Qi’s declaration that love is more important than the Way of a Gentleman which JinLan mentions in 36.
To go with the current is to not resist the tides of history and sensation that we all bathe in. To stay within oneself, seeing only one’s small existence and needs.
But the practice teaches how to stand against the current, to actively engage with suffering in this world. To act with restraint, against the current. to replace self-centredness with steady generosity and compassion. Lan Xiang is not cold, she is careful. Jin Qi shows revolutionary ethics in the end. “