I’m behind an episode but I must jot down my thoughts on this episode before continuing on.
1. Swoon-moment: the bundle of WonDeuk’s clothes
Lol. In my previous post “On Lee Yul, Episode 12” I joked about burning WonDeuk’s clothes in one big bonfire, if I had been in HongShim’s shoes, just to show him what I thought of him for forgetting me so easily.
So that was a “swoon-moment” for me when I realized at the end of this episode that the bundle she had been hauling around ALL AROUND the place had been WonDeuk’s pile of clothes.
Awwwww….
Considering that she was the one who was strict about WonDeuk leaving behind his things (remember in Episode 10?) and chided him about “materialism,” this was so romantic of HongShim. She had no “use” for those clothes, but she returned to their home to retrieve them, and she was going to bring them with her when she went on exile.
You’re a much better person that I am, HongShim!!
2. MooYoon and his (love) affair with the CPrincess
To me, the identity of the baby’s father is no longer as important as getting the CPrincess out of Lee Yul’s life. 🤷♀️
Since we’re down to one or two episodes, the more pressing issue is how to DEPOSE the CPrincess so HongShim can be at Lee Yul’s side. #priorities
The easiest and cleanest way (in the sense, that the writer won’t need any more plot detours and contortions) to achieve this is to have MooYoon claim fatherhood, whether or not he’s the real father.
If he comes out of hiding and claims the baby as his, he’ll effectively:
1) bring the House of Kim down,
2) avenge the death of his father, and
3) open the path for his sister to be with her beloved Lee Yul.
Right now, because he’s protecting the CPrincess and covering up her (or their) adultery, HE’s causing his sister great unhappiness.
All along, I thought he was fleeing the country with his sister because he valued his sister’s happiness more than CPrincess. But now when I consider how HongShim’s unhappiness stemmed from being unable to marry Lee Yul because he was already married to a pregnant CPrincess (and not because Lee Yul was the son-in-law of her father’s murderer), it’s become clear to me that HongShim’s happiness could be restored once the IMPEDIMENT to her marriage with LY was removed.
MooYoon must disclose his involvement with the Crown Princess so Lee Yul and HongShim can marry each other and find their happiness. I don’t care if he’s the father or not. Even if he’s NOT the father, he can fake it and say he is. 🤪 Anything to get that witch and witch’s father out of the palace.
… because I’m tired of this subplot. 🤮As I told Oli, this has been going on for 14/15th (or 15/16th) of the kdrama. On and on and on. Ad nauseum. Even now, in Episode 13, there’s enough ambiguity in the dialogue that it can still be argued that MooYoon is NOT the father.
To me, the retribution is not anymore commensurate to the crime. The writer has dragged this trolling for so long that audience is not going to see the comeuppance that the CPrincess and Minister Kim so richly deserve. The writer has only one episode (perhaps two) left to deal with the fallout of the CPrincess’ adultery and Minister Kim’s treason. And the writer is going to divert attention and take away minutes from the more important plot of HongShim and Lee Yul to justify the dysfunctional relationship between MooYoon and the Crown Princess. Really? Please, I don’t care about their real (or imaginary) love affair. Please, show, just wrap it up.
3. HongShim’s real reason for staying in Hanyang
I love this scene because HongShim was being honest. Although HongShim carried herself as a plain-spoken person, she was often guarded with her response. I like it when she bared her true feelings. One such scene was when she told WonDeuk about falling in love at first sight and under the cherry blossom.
HS: On a night when the cherry blossom petals were falling, you said to me that you liked me. And you asked me to marry you. That’s why I waited for you despite having to endure 100 lashes from the paddle. But… if you act like this now, what am I supposed to do? You have to keep your promise because you’re a man. Because the man I loved was a man of his word.
When she wasn’t lying to cover her up feelings, she would express herself eloquently. But when she was hiding something, she would reply in short sentences like this scene, when WonDeuk discovered that he wasn’t WonDeuk:
WD: Then when you said I feel for you at first sight and followed you around and that I asked to get married under cherry blossom trees were you lying then?
HS: Yeah (Nodding assent, not really saying it out aloud.)
WD: If that’s so, who did you share those memories with? Is that the real WonDeuk?
HS: No, I just… made it up.
WD: Which parts did you make up? Tell me in details.
HS: I’m sorry. I was wrong. I’ll apologize.
WD: What I want to hear is not an apology
HS: Then should I get on my knees. Should I kneel and ask for forgiveness? Is that what you want?
WD: No.
So now, in this scene in Episode 13, she was again speaking from the heart. I liked her impassioned confession that she stayed behind, not so much for her brother, but for WonDeuk.
Fake Father: Tell me the truth. Did you come to Hanyang because of your brother?
HS: Why? Do you think I came here to see the Crown Prince instead?
>I loved the deathly silence before she answered him. It was plain to see that she was holding back her anger because she was being rebuked and made to feel guilty for wanting to stay in Hanyang.
FF: Am I wrong?
HS: Yes. That’s why I came here.
>I liked that she said this defiantly. Her purported reason was looking for her brother. But the real reason was to be near Lee Yul. That’s why she declined JY’s offer to help her find her brother. For one, she didn’t want to be any more indebted to him than she already was. For another, she didn’t really want her brother discovered any time soon because he was her excuse for staying indefinitely in Hanyang.
HS: (continuing) I thought, if I came to Hanyang, then perhaps I could see him from a distance, okay?
FF: Let your hair down this instant. (taking out the hair ribbon) Undo that bun and plait again. This marriage was a sham and WonDeuk is not your husband. The governor even got you an alias. It’s not like you two consummated the marriage. Plait your hair again and go back to being a single woman.
HS: No. I don’t want to.
FF: Why not? Why are your refusing? Why are you saying no?
HS: I like him. I miss him. I cannot believe we parted ways.
>I liked that she chose to stay on. I liked that it wasn’t “all or nothing” situation for her. She was looking for other options. She didn’t want to become the concubine but she didn’t want to be far away from him either, so this was her compromise: to be content with occasional glimpses of him.
FF: HongShim, you cannot do this. You’re only torturing yourself. The Crown Prince is in the palace enjoying life. You must forget him.
HS: I know. I know all that. I cannot control how I fell. Why does everyone just want me to forget? Is it that easy? If it were that easy, I would have forgotten my dead parents and my brother whom I had never imagined to meet again.
>I also liked this part. I said in the other episode that she objected to the name change to YiSeo because she wanted to hold onto her memories of WonDeuk, and NOT so much because the old name was alien to her. She was resisting the pressure from her brother, from JeYoon (lol, that was the conversation about keeping his house “sparkling” all about), and from her fake father to “move on.”
FF: So what…what will you do now?
HS: I’m trying hard, too, so please, do not tell me to forget him soon.
>See? She couldn’t tell MooYoon or JeYoon to STOP insisting that she moved on. But with fake father she could finally air her frustration. They all wanted her to forget as if WonDeuk was THAT easy for her to erase. She couldn’t tell her brother to quit it because HE was her “orabeoni.” Nor could she convince JeYoon (though she tried) to stop trying to make her change her mind about WonDeuk by acting so nice with her. But with her fake father, she could finally let out her resentment that they were all telling her to do something impossible for her to do.
**Another thing I find interesting about HongShim’s outburst is that she never brings up the topic of waiting for that boy Lee Yul to show up. She only brought it up once – when she told WonDeuk that she’d rather endure 100 lashes than get married.
4. The “heel” riddle
Hallelujah!! JeYoon is finally telling him things that he should have a long time ago. His prosopagnosia is really a STUPID plot device.
As @goyangi said, how was he able to recognize FROM AFAR those river thugs whom he only met once? Does he have SELECTIVE prosopagnosia? Lol. I remember in Episode 1, he bumped the Crown Prince to stop him running after the HongShim, but then immediately recognized him as the Crown Prince in the pavilion. I commented on that awkward plot hole BEFORE his awkward prosopagnosia came up in his conversation with the gisaeng.
But disclosing this riddle was the right step for JeYoon to take. I wish he relayed more info to the Crown Prince (like the attempted murder of his Eunuch and the killing of the medical nurse), though. What are you waiting for, JeYoon???!!!
5. Lee Yul’s trust in HongShim
I hate it in kdramas when a couple who’s supposedly in love with each misinterpret each other’s motives and make the situation worse. So, I’m glad that Lee Yul didn’t jump to stupid conclusion that HongShim was having a lover’s rendezvous with JeYoon when he spotted them with the Ming envoy’s daughter.
JY: Are you okay?
HS: I think I sprained my ankle.
JY: Let me see. It’s very swollen.
HS: I’m okay. Take the young lady back. (See? She didn’t try to flirt with him. She wanted him to go do his job.) You said the Crown Prince could get into trouble.
She had hurt her ankle, but she was telling JeYoon to go ahead and finish his mission to aid the Crown Prince. For Lee Yul, this must have been an eye-opener.
HS: (grabbing his arm) Hurry please.
Chinese girl: I’m not going. I will not, until I meet XX first.
JY: Did you run away from your bodyguards because of your beloved?
CG: Yes.
JY: I know you’re young, but this was immature (reckless) of you. You put the Crown Prince in a terrible spot, and the relationship between our two countries might suffer the consequence.
CG: None of that is important to me. I heard that he’s sick. If I don’t see him now, we will never be able to see each other.
JY: That is still no reason to create an international furor.
HS: Let us go. Rather than arguing, we should take her to him.
JY: That we cannot.
HS: We all have different things we treasure the most. Some seek power, some put their families first, and some put love above more than anything else.
***I loved that Lee Yul heard HongShim say this because he was able to “hear” her perspectives on LOVE-vs-DUTY without taking it personally. You see, HongShim was very understanding of the Chinese Girl’s position. Unlike JeYoon, she didn’t condemn the young girl’s actions. HongShim demonstrated the SAME patience and tolerance toward Lee Yul’s situation. Lee Yul had obligations: power, family and love, and he needed to prioritize them. For him, power (he was the Crown Prince, soon to be in charge of a nation) and family (he was already married with a baby on the way) came before love (HongShim). That was Lee Yul’s hard decision and HongShim wasn’t condemning him for that, just like she didn’t judge the Chinese girl for nearly causing an international incident with her disappearance. 👍
From afar:
Guard: Should we not escort the young master back?
LY: No.
Guard: Are you saying you well let him be?
LY: I have faith that those people will bring him back.
Of course, he’d have faith in her. He could see her cut cheek and her cut lip, and he knew her ankle was sprained, too. What more proof did he need that she was going to bring the Chinese girl back? She already got hurt to help him out. She showed him that, despite walking away from him and telling him that their relationship ended, she would always have his back because she loved him. She was one of those people who “put love above anything else.”
6. Dandelion vs Cherry Blossom
Remember this: if I were born during the Joseon period, my flower would be a magnolia poison ivy. That would teach people to touch me. 😜
Anyway, I like the contrast between HongShim and the CPrincess.
While Hongshim was getting hurt for him, there was the CPrincess so pregnant and all.
CPrincess: I was anxious when I heard Young Master JinLin disappeared. I’m glad things got resolved well.
LY: (reprimanding the maid) Do not deliver that kind of report to her next time. If her heart is troubled, it would not be good for the baby either.
*Normally, this remark of his would be swoon-worthy had he been addressing the right wife. Why? Because the wifey just happened to mention that she found something “worrisome” and he instantly fixed it for her. #protective 😍
CPrincess: I’m fine (smiling like a cat that swallowed a canary). It’s natural for me to know about your business.
I liked the way he glanced at her then. #suspicious
You see, both the CPrincess and HongShim seemed to know about his business. He just witnessed HongShim helping him out quietly, behind-the-scene. On the other hand, he’d be warned by the Ming envoy that this girl shouldn’t be trusted as she too was one of the Minister Kim’s people.
Because of his amnesia, he’d been feeling guilty about his past behavior to her. Hopefully now, he’d start looking at the CPrincess in a different light.
7. The rock
Is this the same rock that he gave the father of Lee Yul a long time ago? Why does this rock start the beginning of bloodshed each time? Is this some kind of relic that this Minister Kim stole a long time?
Okay, that’s it for now. Will add later if I remember something. Have to watch Episode 14 soon.
Me I am still trying to work out the riddle…they explained it way too quickly (or maybe it was lost in translation) to satisfy my inquisitive mind. Only because I want to know how they came to the answer(s) both times…because it was key in Ep 14. And it showed us how intelligent LY was. To hide it in code. They didn’t do it very well so I am trying to fill in the blanks to get me to the answer they got. 😂. My mind gets bogged down with trivia like that.
Yeah I know you’re with me about wanting MY NOT to be the father but I think like you I have finally succumbed and for expediency’s sake, just accepted that writer was trolling us all this while and MY is probably the baby’s daddy. Plot holes galore if that is the case. And like you said, it paints him in a really bad light – he knocked her up and then left her to deal with it on her own. And she shoots him with an arrow to keep him by her side? Toxic relationship much? 🙄 Try explaining that one away.
The heel riddle?
Okay. Go ahead tell me. I’m not there yet. Lol. I stopped after Minister Kim kidnapped MY and ordered him to kill the baby daddy.
No, I’m not convinced he’s the Dad but I’m too tired to play games with this writer. Lol.
Yes the heel riddle. Haha…probably coz I can read and write Chinese so the code in letters intrigues me. The spoken Chinese by the Ming envoys was so bad I had to read the subtitles to get at what they were saying 😂. I will see how far I get with the riddle. I may give up because I have to delve back into earlier episodes where the letters come into play. The heel code letter has its origins in earlier riddle he set everyone at the “school” which MoonFace Dimples solved. You will see what I mean when you finish Ep 14.
Also looks like we may well get 16 eps after all. tvN updated their Naver page since yesterday to put the magic 16 number on there… So looks like we will get a Tue finale after all.
I like your take on the love and duty talk, pm3. I think I’m understanding the various purposes of the Ming envoy subplot now, though I still think it was somewhat clumsily executed. XD
Re. the heel riddle—🚨 SPOILERS here for ep 14 🚨—this is how I best understood it, nrllee:
The first riddle JeYoon ever solved for Yul, he guessed that the answer was a character with three squares, so he wrote one that was exactly that—”net.” https://i.imgur.com/gl9UzZp.png
He was on the right track, but the answer didn’t make sense in context. The answer Yul was looking for was “embrace,” which has the three squares AND makes a complete sentence. https://i.imgur.com/vMCThov.png
This is what Yul is referring to when, in ep 14, he says, “When I set you a riddle of words, you solved it by counting the squares. I believe I set the riddle to your level.”
When Yul says that, JY immediately understands that the word “heel” has five squares: https://i.imgur.com/MH4keZR.png But he is still thinking on a more shallow level than Yul. JY says, “Then we must find a place with five squares. Shall we check all the characters? Does any character have five squares?”
But Yul had meant for the squares to represent doors. The amnesiac Yul guesses, “The journal is in a room that can be reached by passing through five doors from here [Yul’s chambers].” Which leads JY to the library, though the journal isn’t there.
“That is because we did not saolve the riddle correctly,” Yul figures out by the end of the episode. “Add the character for ‘heel’ next to that for ‘the cherry blossom seal.’ That gives you the answer.” This part I was a bit ?? because I’m not sure where the cherry blossom seal comes from lol. But whatever character THAT is, the two characters together have a total of eleven squares, so JY says, “From your library, we must pass through six more doors.” To reach the place he and Yul found the journal at the end of ep.
…. yeah it’s definitely convoluted lol
What were the words in Chinese?
I’m traveling soon. Hopefully, I’ll be back back Wednesday. Don’t know if I’ll bring my personal laptop. It’s too much of a hassle to bring double of all electronics.
Thanks Goyangi. I skipped all the riddle part. Lol.
I figured the writer was bloviating again, trying to sound smart (like giving us that silly trivia about the talisman ink being made of some spice that ants don’t like — why should I care??)
I don’t know where the cherry blossom SEAL comes from, but the cherry blossom cake from the two characters for Heel?? One word was for “foot” and the other word was “heavy.” So JY assumed it referred to a place where LY used to walk with a heavy heart or heavy foot. Which was the site of the cherry blossom tree.
I agree, the Ming envoy subplot was awkwardly conceived and executed. It’s just so out-of-the-blue. The girl was kidnapped. HS figured that it was girl pretending to be a boy. JY happened to spot thugs who knew who and where the kidnappers are. Meanwhile, LY found the Eunuch working for the queen and the queen was behind the kidnapping. It was just too contrived.
If it weren’t for WonDeuk’s transformation and the steady progression of HongShim and WonDeuk’s romance, I’d have long given this kdrama a D rating for dumb. 😂
The writer tried too hard and took on too many characters and subplots than was necessary, cluttering the kdrama.
Gah…that’s what I didn’t get…how did he get 3 squares? I counted the number of squares in the words that were written without the blanks and I got 2? The letter on the far right isn’t a square, it’s missing a stroke…and the word written with the 3 squares is NOT “net”, it’s the number 4 in Chinese.
https://i.imgur.com/gl9UzZp.png
The phrase doesn’t make sense with the word “4” in there. Like goyangi said it only makes sense if you fill in the rest of the letter to make the word “embrace”.
And I did try to count the squares in the word “heel” and came up with 5…And I did get the squares representing doors because in Chinese the word for door has the square in it…then the whole cherry blossom seal thing got to me (what? Where did we see the seal stamp?). Because LY then goes on about adding a number of squares to it to find the place? I need to rewatch it coz it just flew by too quickly and it was probably lost in translation. I thought he added another 6 or something…
Too hard to figure out. I will wait for PM3 to catch up with Ep14 first.
Spoiler – just for you PM3…quite serendipitously I happened upon information right under our noses which may potentially vindicate us regarding the paternity of the baby 😮😂
Just tell me. Lol. Or give me a hint.
@nrlee “how did he get 3 squares? I counted the number of squares in the words that were written without the blanks and I got 2? The letter on the far right isn’t a square, it’s missing a stroke…”
I know no Chinese but.. in the picture you shared the character in the far left has 1 square, the second character has 2 squares. The third is missing
The 4th character has 4 squares, the last one has 5 squares.
That’s why the dude(forgot his name) guessed the character in the middle must have 3 squares.
Well, not exaclty squares, rectangles.
O that makes more sense then Oli…the number of squares/rectangles…and the word “heel” has 5 because the bit of the word that has “heavy” on it has 4…one big one divided into 4…
Now if we could only find a picture of that cherry blossom stamp.
@PM3 – well, a while back whilst discussions about the baby’s daddy was most furious, I remember someone commenting, “well that doesn’t fit with the character description!” Which led me on a quest to hunt them down…to no avail…I couldn’t find them anywhere on the Soompi thread in earlier pages and I gave up. Then just yesterday I decide to look up the Naver page to find out how many episodes there were and lo and behold I stumble upon all the descriptions but in Korean…so I look up Seowon and punch it into the Online translator and I get this
“He is the son of Queen Park. It is a man who grows up as a man passing over a geography. There is no political ambition. I have never considered the stereotype rate to be static, but the only thing that is envious is his wife, Sesabin. I am sleeping with my first love, even if I hide my heart with a clear smile”
Sounds totally weird…so I have passed it onto my Friend who is Korean to translate it properly but Sesabin is the name of CPrincess 😮 – if I get the gist of it right…he covets his brother’s Wife…she is his first love and the sleeping bit??… Dun dun dun… 😂
👍
Btw, be careful when posting in forums with hostile mods, okay? Me, I’m fine with your theories AND Oli’s theories because that’s part of the fun of discussing dramas. Seeing different angles. And trying to defend your stance because you feel strongly about it. That’s fine with me.
But in other forums, ideas tend to be monolithic. Meaning, only one of your theories will be considered acceptable. You might be considered a pot-stirrer when you rile up the natives too often and too much. 😂😜
Yah… I tend to ruffle feathers but I try my best not to pull too many out. Lol!! Made some enemies already in the other forum and I think I get tailed to make sure I don’t stir too hard. I know I am in the bad books of one particular actress’ fans and also some of my original homeboy’s fans. They don’t deserve him really. He has a brain. They on the other hand are rather vacant in that department 🤣
My friend is busy at work so we may have to wait on confirmation of that tidbit from the character description of Seowon. I guess we can just wait to see if that was another troll by the writer – was there even anything other than that cryptic “you have all that I desire” statement that alluded to Seowon’s first love being CPrincess? And no you heard it first here, I won’t be sharing this tidbit in the other forum. It’s pointless now so close to the end. I will just let the last 2 episodes unfold and see where the writer takes it.
Hmmm… If you really want to, why don’t you make a list of things that SeoWon said that could be construed as lover-like. Just so you can show people that there’s deliberate intent on the writer’s part to confuse the audience.
I’m saying that the viewers should also be able to recognize when they’re being set up or when the writer consistently does a feint. Being aware of all the moving parts in the script trains our eyes to watch carefully and also affords us insight on how the writer thinks.
You can start with Episode 10. That’s when Minister Jung showed him the letter with a dandelion. It said that she had a dream and that she would distance herself from the person most precious to her in order to keep that person safe. I’m not sure if she’s a woman of her word, or if she can restrain herself for three months (?) but that should have been a clue to look for the person she does NOT associate with. lol.
But I did check. Minister Jung revealed that the letter was from the CPrincess so Prince Seowoon did NOT have to guess who the writer of the letter was. I thought his defense of the CPrincess and the baby was a bit too strong considering they didn’t run in the same circles.
That’s another thing. MooYoung still showed no attachment to the baby in Episode 14. He was concerned for CPrincess and was going to help her out, but not because the baby was his own flesh and blood. Check it. Did he mention the baby? 😀
Gah…the translators have come back to me….doesn’t actually say he slept with his first love (that would be a dead giveaway even before the drama started)…it says “he has sleepless nights thinking about his first love but he tries to hide it with a bright smile” 😂. Well we will all have to wait a few days. I am done trying to argue my point in the other forum. I already sound like a broken record so I will just accept that it is MY for expediency’s sake despite my Vulcan mind telling me it’s illogical.
The other thing that bugged me about the encounter with MY and CPrincess was his question to her, “do you regret choosing me?” or something to that effect and Imma like “what? Over who? Over what?” Over LY? Not even a choice to be made there. Over comfy life/good food/having everything provided for you with LY Vs making straw shoes/hard life with him? Over Seowon? 🤣
I know – about MY showing zero interest in the baby in Ep, referring to it as hers only. It was just strange to only ask this late about it and earlier on just leaving like that to be with HS. And KCE not catching on that MY was in bed with his daughter when he is almost all-seeing.
The one other reason to pin it on Seowon is that when it gets out, both he and CPrincess are disposed of in one fell swoop. Otherwise I feel the threat of the Queen and Seowon (he doesn’t have political aspirations but seems willing to be pushed into it by his domineering mother) will still need to be reckoned with? How will they deal with them?
I know. The Queen has to be cut out too.
That’s why I’m annoyed that this baby plot has dragged on. There’s the queen problem and her loyalists to deal with apart from the baby problem.
Also what MY told his sidekick is off. He said that he had someone to save now. Weird. Did he see the CPrincess as simply someone to “save”? Not someone to live for? Someone to love? Lol. Is that his messianic complex calling him again? Theirs a weird relationship. I wouldn’t call it love. I told you this before right? It’s a co-dependency. She depends on him to get her evil ways and he enables her.,