The thread is now open for comments, spoilers, observations and theories.
I guess Kim SooHyun can’t yet demand a “no-nudity” clause in his contract, unlike Hyun Bin (“Crash Landing on You”) and Lee MinHo (“The King: Eternal Monarch”). 😈
gif credit: riobeth’s tumblr
Let’s enjoy the show.
It’s too late for me to start watching this. If I do, I’ll pop back in. Thanks @pkml3!
Then again, @Packmule3, maybe he can, but doesn’t want to. He may be proud of his post-military bod and willing to let the world see, as long as the scene is important to the plot, not just fan service like a gratuitous shower scene.
He’s simply just showing his biceps. SJK in DOTS had one scene like that as well. Unless there is more… Hahaha
Though I think highly unlikely since he was fully dressed while showering in My Love from the Star.
I like the tone of the pilot episode so far. Since mental illness is at the background, I really hope they keep the tone and not make it light and comical.
A little bit bummed there’s a “past connection” trope already in play, I was hoping there wouldn’t be.
Unfortunately, I might not do a live watch since I need to know in advance if there are sensitive mental health issues which may be triggering for me. We’ll see.
In my country, Netflix is translating the drama title as “The boy who fed on nightmares” 😨 Search query “Psycho but it’s okay” results in other English language dramas and TKEM 😛😂 funny thing is, till today morning it was called psycho but it’s okay.
Just finished watching the pilot episode and it has been promising so far! The cinematography, scoring and animation details blend nicely. Plot looks interesting, although as @melone mentioned, I was kinda hoping there wouldn’t be the past connection trope. However, I will still tune in for more tomorrow.
@Arihsi, I believe that is the title of the episode instead of the drama. My country’s Netflix has it, too. The drama title is translated as “It’s Okay to Not Be Okay”.
p.s Main leads’ visuals are no joke! They have beautiful eyes and overall similar features 😍.
Just watched the 1st episode. It’s a different vibe for me but I like the tune so far. Storyline seems interesting enough as the starter episode. I think I’ll stick around for a few more episodes to decide if I like it. I enjoy watching beautiful people after all.
Yes you’re right @lighthouse26,thanks !
Uh oh. The FL is excellent. It’s my first time watching her and she managed to scare me. On the surface it may seem like she’s the “psycho” who needs help. But actually it’s both of them. Self preservation is the brain’s number one priority. Allowing harm to self repeatedly in circumstances that can be prevented (as the first aid guy tells the ML) is no good either. The response should be prevention of situation that leads to harm, or better, escape – not bearing with the infliction of the same – especially repeatedly.
The past connection here is different than other dramas I think. It is to demonstrate that her violent tendencies run deep. It is not some recent trauma that has led to it. Or some instantaneous response to a recent event. She does it repeatedly as her manager says. And since childhood- as the ML remembers. It’s different than saying they were fated since childhood. In a way, okay -but the underlying message is of how she has been even as a child.
I loved that she’s a fairy tale writer. Fairy tales are tales about abducted children and witches who eat them, young girls being imprisoned by monsters and grown men kissing dead corpses. I never found anything happy about these stories as they always feature deep psychological and sociological anomalies. They were never meant for children. I feel the writer of this drama agrees with me.
Another aspect is “forgetting of bad memories” with respect to the story read at the end. It is an absolutely essential function of the brain. Lack of “plasticity” (i.e. keeping the memories intact with the same clarity) in the bain areas responsible for emotional processing have been linked to mood disorders very well. Being unable to forget past trauma leads to PTSD. You must forget for you are the child of tomorrow. You aren’t meant to live in your past.
Interesting. Finally something I can actually understand after the debacle of TKEM (I’m not saying the drama is a debacle as a whole. It’s a debacle of me personally because I understood zilch)
@Arihsi, it’s interesting what you say about plasticity and not living in the past. In the story, letting go of memories (nightmares) results in losing your soul. I found it interesting that the little girl whose father tried to kill her understood he was mentally ill and still loved him, in comparison to the FL.
So there are two childhood links to her, the nurse and the ML. I’m not keen on the perpetual past connection trope, either, but as you say, it serves to show that this trait is long-standing. How the office scrambled to clear sharps off their desks shows that it’s very active, too.
Yes, she scared me, too. I liked it.
I saw that first episode, being motivated by the lead actress. I think she’s a good actress, but she’s very cold, and it wasn’t suited to her former roles. Whereas here, it’s perfect!
There are a lot of similarities between the female lead, and one of the main characters of my own dramascript:
– Both live in luxury, both have a gothic style with black fingernails.
– Both have weird philosophical repartees.
– Both write stories in which the witch is the main character, probably related to a traumatic past.
– Both are mentally unstable, can be incisive towards others, or overstep boundaries.
– That’s all for now. The characters’ personalities are very different, and so is the meaning and audience of their books. The flaws in my character are deeper, and the FL of “psycho okay” has more maturity. My character can be warm, drama one is cold.
During the episode, FL tells the story of her book, without saying the end. That’s great!
I really wanted to know the ending, and it was a good mystery that kept me in suspense. I wondered how this crazy woman could write children’s books and get published, if her stories are morbid.
I haven’t read all the fairy tales, but often they contain a universal and timeless symbolic meaning. The deep roots of the human psyche, unchangeable. Here, we can make a comparison between the tale at the beginning of the drama, and another tale such as “Sleeping Beauty”.
– The female character goes to sleep = a boring life without evolution, without hope. In the drama, she becomes the daughter of death. And no longer has hope. Because hurt in the past. (as Sleeping Beauty is hurt by a pin = symbolic psyche trauma).
– The male character has to defeat dragons = overcoming his inner conflicts.
The tale comes to an end, the prince, having defeated his own evil becomes able to love a woman, he awakens the princess = Hope returns to the woman’s heart, in the presence of a sincere man who is certain of his actions. A man who has not made this journey would be unable to awaken her. In such a tale, the woman remains ready to be loved (sense of hygiene, highlighting her beauty). In real life, no need to be a superhero or a supermodel to respect this!
The tale at the beginning of the drama is quite weird, I guess it was written by FL. She doesn’t see it that way at all! It can’t work, but her story respects that logic, and includes the fact that it doesn’t work. It sounds contradictory, but these are things that can escape a writer’s control against his or her will. Often we don’t necessarily understand the symbolic significance of what we write. The truth is reflected in her tale. She harpoons a boy, but he runs away.
That means the FL isn’t that crazy!
The drama doesn’t show how aware she is of this truth, but in any case, she knows the truth deep down inside and manages to express it.
Finally, at the end of the episode, we finally know the end of the other tale, told in the conference room!
Miracle! Things stand up. I did not expect to see a children’s book writer telling morbid things or telling things against the healthy process necessary for the evolution of the human soul. Could she be published or invited to a psychiatric hospital in this case?
Here the witch says that the child should have fought his demons, rather than trying to avoid them.
It’s a twisted version of the classic hero of “Sleeping Beauty”. It’s as if we start from the principle: what happens if the hero of the tale chooses the wrong path?
Get rid of his problems by putting them under the carpet, and choose the easy way out (confide in the witch and ask her to magically remove all the problems).
In conclusion, FL is not crazy! Not in the psychiatric sense. She has real behavioural problems, related to her past. She is walled up in her sleep (sleeping beauty), she is wrong about many things, blind. But she has a realistic vision of many things.
She plays the role of an initiator by showing the wrong side of things. What happens when the psychological sense is not respected. This is contradictory to her own behaviour in everyday life, because she does not respect this meaning on many points either, but points that she is not aware of, it is consistent with reality. Not doing what one professes is a common fault. Or to be certain of one thing but live walled up without knowing the truth about another. And she respects her part of the bargain according to what she believes in: using her past to become stronger.
I guess the rest of the drama will show the mutual psychological healing process between the two main characters.
I hope that the drama will respect the psychological sense, and show the ML more prone to reaction or anger. We have a clue in the first episode, he has a mood swing at one point. I will find it hard to believe that he can stay calm in the presence of this woman, start to like her, when she is great at pissing someone off! I’ll find it a pity that the ML remains placid and as flat as the ML at Hotel Del Luna, whom I assumed had settled his inner conflicts to the point of reaching the Buddha level!
I’m a bit afraid, too, that it’s all going to turn into a sadomasochistic relationship. Since the ML spends all his time getting hurt, and the FL spends all her time hurting. The tale at the beginning of the drama hints at that. But also that it will fail. It may be a preliminary step in the overall process, something that will awaken both characters during their quest.
One last thing: it feels so good to see a story properly told. 😀
Im a big fan sooman. So i will say to you i love its okay to not be okay drama 🤣
Kinda surprised to see There is cartoon part for fairy tales background story scene, but i love it.
In first ep i saw main character kinda has traumatic moment in the past either is they are the good one or bad one.
Moon young has evil dad, kangtae somehow never showing his anger, pain, or being hurt, maybe bcs of his lover and related to his bro.
The second female lead kinda one of the bullies in moon young highschool.
One things that i find interesting about moon young is why she love to collect knife?!
She kinda same with me 🤣 i love collecting knife, i used to steal most of brand new knife from my mom kitchen lol
I still love to collecting knife even though i buy it by my own money now 😂
I hope i dont have mental illness or something lol
Btw Sooman aka soohyun with jun ji hyun is my most favorite actor and actress. (Though i love many kcelebrities)
So seeing “Soo hyun” in every of his project is the most important part 🤣
But really, the drama still worth to watch and the story filled with so much mystery, and i love main couple, though Its hard for me to ship them 🥴🤣 just for drama chemistry was played really good so far. most of cast really good actors.
We can easily understand whats going On since they act very well.
I was told the hospital was Doldam
i.e. the one used in RDTK? Love the actress too. Mayhap this will be the drama to marathon after I am done with revision😊
Mom @packmule I’m back from my slumber yey 😃
The truth is, the recent dramas that you covered in this site so far didn’t spark me interest at all. But I was looking forward to this drama because Soohyun and Yeji visuals overload haha
And this pilot episode do not disappoint! Exceeded my expectations! Can’t wait for the next episode and so.
While waiting for PBIO to air, I watched some chinese costume dramas and also rewatched TKIL 😁.
Can’t wait for more PBIO posts 😃!
I love the animation. It has a Coraline vibe to it. I love that KSH’s character here is not dorky. And I don’t know if it’s just me but KSH and SYJ have similar facial features they can almost pass as siblings.
Beautifully disturbing.
Dark, upsetting, yet with hope
Daughters and fathers
Absent mothers
Trauma
Blood
Fixations
Healing
Troubled
Brothers
With hope
😂 Are you doing poetry now, @GB?
@pkml3 At first I was mostly disturbed, 😒 then I felt that instead of trying to string sentences together I’d just note the thoughts and themes that occurred to me. After that it also came to me that a poem might emerge in time …
This show has the catnip thing in it for me. It has the wounded child(ren). 😠 It has the wounded adult too, but it’s the child at the mercy of the adult, who cannot help but be attached to them, who looks to that parent figure for protection and care, but who is abused instead… that gets the wind up for me. I will watch this show to look for the forgiveness and the healing. Maybe the poetry will trickle out. 🤨
Loved everything about the first episode so far, but am most pleased by the relationship between the brothers. I work with the special needs community, so was originally drawn to this drama when I saw that Oh Jung-Se would be portraying a character on the Austim spectrum. So far, I’ve been super impressed with how sensitively and accurately both his acting and the writing has been so far. Very much looking forward to seeing his character develop. Also, love the relationship between Kang-Tae and Sang-Tae—it so refreshing to see how much Kang-Tae loves and supports his brother. The relationship between Kang-Tae and Jae-Soo is super intriguing as well, there’s a real depth to their friendship that I want to know more about!
@GB 😍😍😍😍😍
And @snow flower yes!
The first minutes, with the animated story, hooked me (joke intended). I was also intrigued with how the author’s book, The Boy Who Fed on Nightmares, was woven throughout the episode. I wonder if each episode will be named after, and incorporate, one of her books.
This drama is dealing with dark themes, but isn’t heavy. I’d use the word quirky to describe it.
The animated story sets us up to meet the female lead, Ko Mun Yeong. Our opinion of her is being influenced before we even see her. We need to ask ourselves, is this reliable information? Who is telling this story?
“The girl was all alone again, and that’s when the shadow of death came back and whispered this. ‘No one can ever stay by your side because you’re a monster. Do not ever forget that. Do you understand?’ (We see the FL, beautiful but funereal, and she speaks.) Yes, Mother.”
Who is the real monster here? In my opinion, it is the mother who spills such poison into the mind and heart of her child.
Everything in this scene works together to give us a creepy vibe. Moving from the animation’s torn butterfly wings to the leaves (or are they?) blowing at the top of the dark staircase, through the tattered lace curtains to the overgrown and cobwebbed balcony, we see the FL enveloped in black lace with only her face and neck exposed. Behind her is what I would describe as god lighting, which is quite a juxtaposition.
We get all this before the episode title!
Moon Sang Tae, the disabled older brother, is quite impaired. He isn’t able to function well in society. We see him have a meltdown, but even small behaviors portrayed by the actor such as inability to make eye contact, picking on the skin between his thumb and index finger, flicking his fingers, convince us we are looking at someone on the autism spectrum.
Back to our female lead and more character color. We see her sitting at a table, behind a chain. Is she caged to protect her from others, or others from her? We see her cut into a very rare steak, dip her finger in the running juice, then taste it…again a juxtaposition: her prim way of sitting, her chic clothing and makeup, and her carnivorous pleasure. After this quick glance, we are not surprised by her interaction with her young fan. She’s a lioness, and when the foolish deer strayed too close, she pounced. It was funny to see that her publisher knew right away on seeing a crying child that Ko Mun Yeong was the cause. It must happen often.
We saw the male lead, Moon Kang Tae, hold in his anger with the administrator of the trade school when his brother was expelled, then be kind and gentle with his brother. When we see him on the job (a few moments here to meditate on the shirt-changing scene), he is called on by other staff to deal with a problem patient, and we again see him being kind and gentle. The vomit scene…I just had to laugh at how it was depicted. Funnier still was how they showed MKT’s mental coping strategy: imagining himself laying in rose petals à la American Beauty (the 1999 movie).
I am loving how this drama pays attention to detail, even in how scenes are connected. After the no smoking confrontation of the FL & ML, the camera focuses from overhead on a heart-shaped hedge, which then becomes the backdrop logo at the book reading. KMY’s dramatic scream during her reading also bridges the two scenes; I suspect it sums up the frustration we saw MKT exhibit when he crushed his coffee cup.
And a word about the book reading: How cool was it that it included someone doing sand art on a light table? I want to see more of that!
The backstage fight scene, when MKT and the filicidal father are struggling, a touch of humor is inserted to keep it from being melodramatic: an accidental step on a switch actually lightens the scene when the words Wonder Land are illuminated.
I’ll end here, even though I’ve only commented on half of this episode. To sum it up, I like the creative ways this drama is revealing the characters to us, and I look forward to seeing more.
@Welmaris — I would rather they keep it heavy than quirky, considering the mental health background they’ve chosen to put the male lead in. Autism, suicide and PTSD are topics that are quite sensitive to deal with, and I really hope they won’t make light of them. So far so good though.
The only thing I’m really disappointed about is the “past connection” trope. I’m tired of it.
@Welmaris, you’ve described it so well. Ref the ML: the shirt changing scene: nice (ahem) but also showed old scars and new wounds, which backs up what @Arishi said above about Moon Kang Tae’s lack of self-preservation. He has developed coping strategies (American Beauty, ha!) but he’s going to explode at some point, isn’t he? The vom patient and his friend both didn’t like when he smiles. His friend says it’s like the Joker because of his sad eyes, but the comparison is ominous.
Ko Mun Yeong (witch not princess) likes his eyes, however. After Kang-Sae’s butterfly nightmare at the end, I was wondering which brother was represented in the FL’s story, or maybe both? We’re left with them confronting each other in the conference room. She is hiding a sword; can or will he defend himself?
@Fern,
Yeah, I think so, too.
I’m not good at predictions, I’ll try one (sorry if it becomes a spoiler).
The script of the drama will follow the one of the animated tale we see in the first scene.
The FL harpoons the ML. He follows her obediently and puts up with her bad temper. During this phase, both characters are in the easy way out, and neither of them really progresses.
Then, the FL will make one mistake too many, and then the ML will explode!!!
I hope so, because it’s going to be spectacular to see, and emotionally charged. Only then will the healing process really begin and their love story will blossom.
By the way, one thing’s obvious:
When LF tries to stab the crazy man. It’s a similarity to the character who harpoons fish.
When the ML stops the knife and is wounded, this is the similarity when the character in the tale harpoons the young boy.
@WEnchanteur. If that’s the way the story will go, I am already dreading how they can possibly spread this out into 16 episodes!
I’m curious why they’re using the title “It’s Ok to Not be Ok” on Netflix. It actually like “Psycho, But It’s Ok” much better. I feel that the title on Netflix is not going to attract casual viewers, or is it just me?
I read that Psycho But It’s Ok was described as a romcom. If so, I think it’s failing as such. Sure there are some comedic scenes, but they are unpleasant comedy for me. So I would just categorize them as healing drama. I’d rather PBIO be as psychological healing romance on a serious note than a romcom.
There’s this cdrama currently airing tho – My girl/99 points Girlfriend – that is a romcom but also with the leads dealing with psychological issues, and yes the romcom side is greatly done but I am not liking how they depict the doctors and patients (which are involved/friends with the leads, not the leads themselves) having potential romance and that the psychologist just diagnosed her patient automatically without proper tests and all. Anyway here the ML actually caused the FL’s trauma but ML has his own traumatic experience as well. Now the FL has PTSD but I think it’s DID (can DID happen because of PTSD, I still gonna research on these)
Hahaha I digress. Just both dramas have similarities to it so can’t help but compare tho PBIO is heavy while My Girl is light sooooo stark difference right there.
I’m looking forward how these two dramas deal and solve the psychological issues they presented in their narratives.
This is NOT a romcom. If it is, it’s very dark humour.
I really like this. Clever interplays between fantasy and reality. Using fairytales imbues a fantasy element (Alice in Wonderland – as per the sign in the stage during the knife stab). It delivers a message without being overly hampered by the doldrums of reality. I often wonder about how my autistic nephew views the world. He laughs at things I don’t find particularly funny. But to him, it’s hilarious. His world is very black and white. Lying is bad. Telling the truth is good. A white lie does not exist in his world. Explaining compound emotions like grief is impossible. Are you happy? Are you sad? Are you angry? Sometimes it’s all of it together?
The Boy Who Fed On Nightmares. It’s not about not having the nightmares. It’s only against the backdrop of nightmares that you can have good dreams. It’s relative. You can’t expect to have happiness, unless you know what it is to be unhappy.
It’s a great start and I love how they seem to have delicately balanced mental issues without overstating the obvious or glossing over it glibly. And I like how KSH portrays his character. Stoic with an air of sadness. He is inextricably tied to his brother. Being his primary carer is an exhausting and often demoralizing task. You shoulder the burden of constant worry. You wish for a kinder world for his sake. And you fight his battles as well as your own. It’s a tough gig.
to be honest, I had very high expectation for this drama and ep 1 EXCEED IT. from the character, cinematography, acting and even the ost are just top notch, for the storyline itself I can’t say much cause after all its just the beginning but ep 1 already gave me a fresh feeling while watching it. the acting is no doubt on point, as expected from two talented actor and actress, their acting is always superb and they definitely didnt disappoint at all in ep 1, I can already feel their chemistry and already feel their character, I just love it and their visuals are just a pleasing bonus. im so excited for the next episodes, cant wait!!
@Wenchanteur, I think the animated tale may have happened in the past, in childhood. The boy rejects her when she coldly and cruelly mutilates the butterflies. In the present, there’s a nightmare about butterflies. This seems to be a cycle the brothers undergo and the friend is away of it. That isn’t to say that it won’t happen again, with variations, until one or both characters change their reactions and behaviours.
*aware*, not away.
Done watching the second episode. I felt it wasn’t as captivating as the premiere? Very little happened, though I am usually forgiving since I give KDramas a maximum of 3 episodes to complete character introductions anyway. Will continue to watch this, especially since Backstreet Rookie has turned out to be such a disappointment so far.
Photoshoot for posters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOVDCcka050
Interesting that Mun Yeong is put into princess clothes rather than witch’s.
Finished watching ep 2 😃
My favorite part is the way they depict the world in Sangtae’s eyes. Most of the time, people with autism spectrum disorder view the world differently. They are in their own world. I really appreciate the scene.
Oh my. I’m scared for him. He is not a coward. He isn’t the one to be calm and passive like ML of hotel del Luna either and Man Wol was just eccentric. She never ever abused him – physically or emotionally. This is different. And scary. The red shoes gave me goose bumps.
P. S. How is this rated 13+ can someone please tell me ? Because it doesn’t have explicit language or violence or sexual content? This is 18+ stuff ! Come on ! It’s like those fairy tales all over again. Fairy tales are also all 18+.
P. P. S. I’m shocked that the FL is being categorised as “badass” in commentaries on this drama. ma, no! She’s violent. Not badass. She attacks fellow humans, causes injury, shows obsessive behaviour, stalks her victim and makes physical contact without consent. That is NOT badass. It is abusive behaviour (not to mention illegal) that needs correction. Having a traumatic past is not an acceptable excuse to abuse and injure others.
Also, how come this doesn’t come with a trigger warning on multiple fronts ? Again, I continue to be shocked that this is 13+.
@Fern he refused her offer. Meaning he knows her abusive ways. “You were born that way”, he says. And he gets away from her to prevent her from hurting him. So he does protect himself to an extent. But she’s relentless and glorifies obsession. I feel like her manager 😂 poor guy.
@nrllee, your description of a caregiver’s life and the way KSH plays his character is so spot on.
@WEnchanteur, Great dissection of the fairy story playbook. Bring it on. Right now I am looking at the color palette of the production. The color group used at the Mental Hospital, peach, aqua, green and cream, is spot on for crazy town. There is some kind of micro animation going on with the eyes in the first encounter of the leads that piques my interest. The tone reminds of Ronald Dahal’s The Witches and Lemony Snicket’s A Series of Unfortunate Events. I’m seeing an edgey production design with a classy snap to it. Nightmares are always a free ticket to theater of the absurd so I’m in.
A bit of background to provide context
Butterflies. It alludes to the concept of pain. Pain is actually a complex combination of both the sensory and emotional experience. It’s more than the stimulation of nerves. That’s why people have “phantom pain”. They feel the pain even if there is actual physical cause or stimulus. Pain is subjective. Our perceptions and past experiences influences our response to unpleasant stimuli. Coming back to butterflies. They have no nociceptors (pain receptors that mammals have). So entomologists therefore deduce that they “feel no pain”. (https://butterfly-fun-facts.com/do-butterflies-feel-pain/). So whilst ripping the wings off butterflies would look horrible and painful. They don’t actually “feel pain”.
MY self harms. She cuts herself. That’s why all the staff hide their sharp objects when she arrives at the office. That plus the fact that they don’t know if she will turn it on others. People with antisocial personality disorder don’t have empathy. So they will often harm others just to see what pain looks like. It’s like a morbid fascination they have. Because pain is not just the sensory stimulus but your response to it. The fact that these people often experience the sensory stimuli but cannot link it with an appropriate emotional response is where the problem lies. So that may be why the girl in the story rips the butterfly wings. They don’t feel the pain. It resonates with her. She cuts herself but she can’t associate that stimulus with any emotional response. So there is no feedback loop happening in her mind/body to feel any aversion to pain. Linking it with an appropriate emotional response is what is necessary for any person to empathize with another. Or avoid pain because they attach it to something negative. For MY it’s just a fascinating notion.
Nrllee this was fascinating to read I think you’re right.
Not sure about the self harming thing yet but I do agree with you that MY is fascinated by the notion of pain, because she doesn’t feel it she probably doesn’t understand why people react the way they do to pain. I wonder if it’s just physical pain she doesn’t feel? Does the feel the emotional pain since she writes about being unhappy like the boy who fed on nightmares. Is she unfeeling like will she be able to feel emotional hurt when the story takes away Gang Tae from her?? Not sure if what I’m saying makes sense but yes the idea of not being able to feel pain seems really important for the story
Also I really hope the fairytales will be used in more ways like I hope we get to analyse them or use them to foreshadow and add up what happened in the past. Each title is based on either her fairytale or a known fairytale with a meaning so can’t wait to find out what zombieboy is about obviously a living corpse that longs for brains is an interesting concept but what metaphor will that be for. Gang Tae? Or another character in her life or her?? Will it talk about themes of loneliness, maybe zombie buy feels isolated from the kids who are human? Or would it talk about hunger and lack of
Control of situation in life? I’m intrigued and excited to see what other stories we’ll hear but yes I want to analyse the fairytales more so I hope they do something more to the storyline
@nrllee thanks for this! I knew that she was on the ASPD spectrum (if that’s the correct term) but didn’t expect that she was not joking when she asked if the ‘sick father’ had ever killed before, because maybe she has. Was hoping that she was borderline able to be ok until she pushed the ‘bad’ guy down the stairs and said that he should have died. That makes her super frightening and this show chilling. In fact I felt the chills from the first Ep’s animation.
That animation with the flashback memories of both Gang Tae and Mun Yeong, with all the parallels in terms of the scenery and what they did as children, show without a doubt that they are the characters in the animation. That from childhood they had a fascination for each other
GT had been hooked by MY, and replaced the ‘shadow of death’ by being her shadow, in his childhood, until he was repulsed by her experiments with the butterflies. MY likes to tear little things apart. She can’t sit beside a flower without tearing out it’s petals one by one.
We see her doing that, to make a decision on whether to help or not to help a drowining GT. The poor besotted boy continues to like her even when she barely saves him from drowning and stamps on the flowers he gives her right before his eyes. It took her killing the butterflies to make him break (the hook) away from her. I felt like she was experimenting to see at which point he’d run away. She’s on a look out for that reaction and presses buttons to see if she can get it, as evidenced by her conversation with young fan, Lee Seul Bi.
Generally we viewers are geared up to root for our ML and FL. However the twist is that we are left to wonder if we might be rooting for someone whom her father feared (time will tell if that was what drove MY’s dad to try to kill her) might be a killer, and whether the strange death of the ‘sick’ father who tried murder suicide with his daughter, had anything to do with MY.
ASPD
Murder-suicide
Dementia
Autism
Self-harm
The woes of care-givers
MY’s guessing games and manipulation
This is not an easy watch, even with the black humour that pops up.
@BeingWritten
Pain is a concept and it requires an individual to
1. Receive the stimulus (via our pain receptors)
AND
2. The emotional response (negative) attached to it.
Pain is for self preservation. You touch a sharp surface, you experience the stimulus (prick) and your brain registers an emotional response (ouch) which then feeds back to your brain and you learn NOT to do it in future. If that loop doesn’t occur, and there is no emotional response, there is no feedback response and you don’t avoid it and will keep persisting in it. And when you have that emotional response you can then learn NOT to do it to others (empathy).
I only know this because one of my friends has a child with this disorder. The couple are the sweetest most socially responsible people I know. Yet they bore a child who initially to them seemed like the devil incarnate. He was constantly getting into trouble for hurting others and seemed to find delight in it. They were at their wit’s end when he was diagnosed. Can you imagine being told your child has serial killer tendencies? It was devastating for them. Because they bore the brunt of being “bad parents”, for not “teaching him right” from others who just didn’t understand their plight. Constantly being rung up to come to the Principal’s office because their child had “done something”. They switched schools for him a lot. He had no friends. It was heartbreaking to watch. They tried their utmost to teach him empathy. And by the grace of God he seems to have learnt some. But he’s still very unpredictable and you always had to watch him. As a child we would always watch him when he played with our children (or other children), because he would do things unprovoked. Eg throw an object at another child for no reason or hit them. You had to be extra vigilant with every play session with him. And make sure when he’s walking down stairs no other child is within arm’s length of him lest he decides on a whim to just give them a shove. His parents used to tell me they tried everything. They tried to smack him (yes I know this is not on) to get him to understand what it felt like when he did it to others. He just laughed at them 🙁. He didn’t associate it with anything at all. He thought it was a joke. So I totally get where MY is coming from. Can empathy be learnt? Possible. Just like for autism, you can teach these responses. But often it’s very rigid and linear. It doesn’t account for the myriad of things you need to consider for a response to be deemed “normal”.
Thanks Nrllee
Yes it’s a sensitive topic when discussing about these things. I also studied psychology in college so I find all this so fascinating and difficult to talk about . But I think what’s makes this difficult for this show is when it comes to analysing the relationship between these two. Unless MY does Psychotherapy, she won’t be able to really have a healthy relationship with GT so I can’t really watch this as a romantic comedy either. I also just researched more about ASPD and so many websites say that they never really fall in love? They can only act like they are in love but not really? So my question is what are we expecting from this drama then? Because at the end of the day people with ASPD are real and they deserve a chance to love someone and be loved, but at the same time I feel weird about the balance and dynamic between these two now especially since right now she’s obsessed with him and probably sees him as an object. What do you think?
@miracle23, the psychiatric hospital does indeed look like Doldam Hospital in RDTK.
I am curious about MY’s mother.
I am looking forward to next week’s episodes.
Another thing!
So here’s the full fairytale about the red shoes. I can see Why the anti heroine Karen characteristics points to MY. But also this fairytale shows that GT and MY relationship dynamic won’t be an idealistic fairytale but just like with original fairytales it’d be very dark indeed.
The red shoes
A peasant girl named Karen is adopted by a rich old lady after her mother’s death and grows up vain and spoiled. Before her adoption, Karen had a rough pair of red shoes; now she has her foster mother buy her a pair of red shoes fit for a princess. Karen is so enamored of her new shoes that she wears them to church, but the old lady told her “it’s highly improper and you must only wear black shoes in church”. But next Sunday, Karen cannot resist to put the red shoes on again. As she is about to enter the church, she meets a mysterious old soldier with a red beard. “Oh, what beautiful shoes for dancing,” the soldier says. “Never come off when you dance,” he tells the shoes, and he taps the shoes of each with his hand. After church, Karen cannot resist taking a few dance steps, and off she goes, as though the shoes controlled her, but she finally manages to stop them for a few minutes.
After her adoptive mother becomes ill and passes away, Karen can’t even attend her foster mother’s funeral. And then an angel appears to her, bearing a sword, and condemns her to dance even after she dies, as a warning to vain children everywhere. Karen begs for mercy but the red shoes take her away before she hears the angel’s reply.
Karen finds an executioner and asks him to chop off her feet. He does so but the shoes continue to dance, even with Karen’s amputated feet inside them. The executioner gives her a pair of wooden feet and crutches, Thinking that she has suffered enough for the red shoes, Karen decides to go to church so people can see her. Yet her amputated feet, still in the red shoes, dance before her, barring the way. The following Sunday she tries again, thinking she is at least as good as the others in church, but again the dancing red shoes bar the way.
When Sunday comes again Karen dares not go to church. Instead she sits alone at home and prays to God for help. The angel reappears, now bearing a spray of roses, and gives Karen the mercy she asked for: her heart becomes so filled with peace, and joy that it bursts. Her soul flies on to Heaven, where no one mentions the red shoes.
@BeingWritten but what is love though? When your partner no longer recognizes you because of dementia and you still love him anyway. Is that love? Does it have to be reciprocated a certain way for it to be “love”? Is it enough to give love to the other knowing that the other will never comprehend your sacrifice or return in kind? For me love is a choice. Not a feeling. My friends as parents chose to love their child (With ASPD) instead of turning their backs on him. For me that’s the hardest thing to do. Think of KT and ST. ST is unlikely to fully understand the sacrifices KT has undergone for his sake. KT loves ST. Does ST love KT? Not in the normal everyday definition of the word. Real love is the commitment. It’s not glamorous. It’s hard going and tough. It’s an act of the will, a choice.
PS Mental Health is often portrayed with a butterfly emblem. And the Butterfly project is related to self harm
https://www.adolescentselfinjuryfoundation.com/the-butterfly-project
Thank you for the information @nrllee. I am reading in pensive and melancholy mood. I’m not totally downcast however, I am interested and wanting to know if there are solutions that can work for our characters. It sounds like such a dangerous situation for Gang Tae and Sang Tae to be with Mun Yeong, not to mention dangerous for all their friends who will want to protect them. I envision scenes rife with suspense and more blood. In 2 episodes we already seen:
– MY’s blood
– GT’s blood
– the blood of the murdered mother of GT and ST
– possibly slimy book critic’s blood (well he was injured)
– death of father who tried to kill his daughter
– dead butterflies
– and Ep 2 opening credits give us the pricking of a finger and dripping of blood.
With MY’s propensity to wield sharp objects with total abandon, and GT’s lack of self-preservation, I’m steeling myself for ‘painful’ scenes!!!
Thanks @BeingWritten for putting out the story here. It’s from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Shoes_%28fairy_tale%29 I believe. I’m was interested to know that it’s a Hans Christian Andersen tale. I looked up the possible theme(s) he covers.
The one for The Red Shoes that’s mentioned under the film (Study Guide in https://www.gradesaver.com/the-red-shoes) has it as a question about art and whether the artist should have control over all others in the making of his art. This is apt when applied to MY who naturally believes that she is entitled to whatever she wants and others have to do her bidding, regardless of the cost to them.
But as the one wearing the red shoes, literally and figuratively (the one who must dance endlessly, controlled by the shoes) she fails to see that she herself is controlled by her condition as a person with ASPD.
She is an anti-heroine like Karen of HC Andersen’s story, as much to be pitied and helped as abhorred and avoided. We look for the balance in this show.
@nrllee
Thank you for your explanation about butterflies.
It’s a perfect additional symbolism for one of my characters. And speaking of which, I’ve spotted another FL situation used by my character. Ugh.
It’s amazing how these elements are used naturally without even knowing their significance. A symbol contains a multitude of meanings that don’t need words.
The meaning is context specific and often a person’s context. I discussed my dreams with someone, who told me his. The symbols were the same, but their meanings were different. Well, we assume so because some dreams can be deciphered, and others you don’t know yourself why you dreamt them.
Some symbols have a more universal meaning. It makes sense to find them in a multitude of stories, tales, or dreams.
According to your explanation of pain, the ML no longer receives these signals necessary for survival? In a way, it is the perfect individual to dare to approach FL. The two characters are complementary, in a creepy way. 😀
I haven’t thought about it yet, but with all your explanations, it should be possible to make sense of why the ML’s former girlfriend breaks a butterfly in half (this scene shocked me more than an action hero shooting a bunch of enemies, lol).
@Fern,
You’re right.
I also had this vague impression that things could start after the animated tale at the beginning, or that things would repeat themselves but that there was a way out to avoid the same conclusion.
In episode 2, we learn that the tale is also about the ML past story. He doesn’t want to repeat things because he is running away from FL first. But at the end of the episode, she will find him again and insists! Maybe the ML will be the one who helps FL not to repeat its mistakes? It could also work the other way around. I’ll avoid anticipating things, because not only is it inaccurate, but in the end it spoils me the surprise.
When I see the title of the drama “Psycho it’s okay”, it could also be a surprising ending, like in the Japanese drama “Kimi wa petto”.
I don’t know what this animated tale is. If it’s just the script that proposes it as a narrative element, or if it’s a story that exists in the drama and written by one of the characters. Maybe Packmule3 will have a better eye to find out.
There is erotic tension in this drama. The lead actress is perfect for the role. And prettier than in her previous dramas. The drama is pleasant to watch, intriguing enough to make you want to see the sequel. The attraction between the two characters is palpable. I’m a bit worried that FL may want to go after ML with the aim of making him suffer…
@nrllee That was a beautiful way to put it. I agree as well then, the drama will be about emotional healing so I can’t wait to see how these 2 story develop. Your friends are amazing by the way.
So apart from the two main leads, how are we all feeling about the second lead? Forgotten her name but Nam Joo Ri? Is she going to be an ally to the story or a foe? From the way she looks at MY so far, I’m predicting she won’t be as helpful to her because she already holds a lot of prejudice against her for her father situation.
Also didn’t mention this before but the way they showed Sang Tae’s mind when he was going to the book event was so good, it’s amazing the way they portrayed what goes on in the minds of someone with autism, and I loved how everything was animated and full of life. So good.
@Growing Beautifully Never thought of it as the red shoes being a representation for her ASPD. But that’s also powerful when you think about it. Especially since wearing the red shoes in the story also doesn’t fit societal norms (not being allowed to wear it in the church) The red shoes are also stopping her from reaching peace and healing, so I’m guessing this could foreshadow that her ASPD might get worse later and prevent her from reaching the ‘happy peaceful’ state she desperately searches for.
In that case do you think Gang Tae could represent the Angel then, the provider for that healing she so desperately needs? But it was the angel who cursed Karen with the red shoes to dance forever, for her past actions. I know I’m reaching for meaning here, but it probably also hints that these 2 situation may be connected to each other from the start? Like that event that has caused his brother PTSD with the butterflies, and her experimenting on the butterflies and tearing their wings apart. Could the mum’s murder be connected to the flash backs she has of her father trying to strangle her? I find it interesting her mother was a writer that wrote detective and murder stories. Is that also a link?
Let me know what you think
Could the butterfly remembered by GS as the murderer of his mother be a tattoo, birthmark or other thing on the murderer’s body?
What is the link between the murder butterfly and the mutilation of the butterflies by MY as a child?
Yeah @Fern that’s what I think. It’s a tattoo or something that the murderer had.
You’re “steeling” yourself for the painful scenes, @GB?
You have your work cut out for you if you’re squeamish about blood. 🙂
I’ll take a stab at my First Impressions later. Not everything is cut and dried. Case in point, the use of fairy tales as exposition.
Everything considered, I thought it was an edgy way to start the series.
This is what I’ve written about the show on my tumblr so far. If I use the fairy tales.
Psycho But it’s okay: Themes and ideas to look for when analysing
So first two episodes of Psycho but it’s okay is finally out. And like I said before I really enjoyed watching it and analysing ideas surrounding it. So, if you’re looking for ways to look and analyse the story arc of this show, here are a few things I’ll be using as a guide so far.
First thing I love about this show is that it uses fairy tales to narrate and show underlining information for the story and characters. Therefore, the directing is dark, but fantastical, whimsy but also serious and full of lessons, and has a metaphorical way to allude to reality. This is what Fairy tales do anyway, they are used to entertain and show the world in a magical mystical way. But they use symbolisms and metaphors to teach a moral or a lesson about a situation or topic in real life. They relate to children and us and help push us into a different perspective of life. Just as our main character also writes fairy tales and has other characters obsessed with fairy tales. The show uses these stories which each title of the episode is named with, to tell us more about each of our character’s dynamics, thoughts, hidden feelings, and subtext between scenes. They also help us gain an understanding for where the story is going. So, I’m going to be analysing each fairy-tale that the title is based on and use that as a structure to show you more information about the show. I’ll be looking for patterns and themes showcased in these stories and how they give depth to the episode’s story.
Things to analyse in each fairy tale that will be helpful:
The characters –
Each fairy tale told in the story has a list of characters that shadow the characters in the story. They probably also will shadow other characters that we haven’t yet seen or stories interlinking with the patients in the hospital Gang Tae works in. For example (I will go into more detail about episode 1 and 2) Sang Tae is the boy who fed on nightmares, and Moo Young is the girl with the red shoes. Just as the girl in the red shoes is an anti-heroine Moo Young also is one, her obsession with Gang Tae parallels the obsession with the red shoes. Just like Sang Tae is plagued with nightmares of the butterflies, the boy with the nightmares is also wanting to be free from what is plaguing him and hunting him depression and anxiety. Just like Moo Young believes she’s a witch, the witches in her stories correspond to how she views life, and what she wants to achieve with her stories- to help people and teach people but also to overcome her trauma and have control. (will go into this more in other posts) even though her condition makes her not have control. She uses fairy tales to showcase her thoughts. Like the witch h tells the boys to use what he’s suffering from to become strong.
Psychological Disorders
Each fairy-tale I also predict will focus on a topic with a psychological disorder. The boy who fed on nightmares is about Anxiety, Depression and PTSD that both brothers are going through because of the butterflies and the murder of their mum. The girl with the red shoes focuses on the addiction and obsession and trauma which is what Moo Young has shown aspects of. More on this later in full depth. But yes now we are moving into a setting with more opportunities to know more disorders I can see each fairy tale dealing with themes of trauma, anxiety, depression, ptsd, aspd etc. All to do with lack of control which is a theme so far.
Themes
Themes noticed from the show so far is:
Loneliness/Isolation
You can tell that all the characters feel some how alone because of the situation they find them selves in. Moo Young feels alone though she does not care, she feels she’s destined to be a monster with no love. She feels isolated from the world because of how they view her and treat her. And she hasn’t come to full terms to understanding she has a problem. Gang Tae feels lonely because of his need to sacrifice his time, relationships, and goals to help run away from his past and to take care of his brother. He feels isolated from the world cause they judge his brother and can’t understand his circumstances .In the fairy tales the boy who fed on nightmares feels alone with depression even though his nightmares are gone, he feels isolated by them and also without them. The girl with the red shoes also feels alone because of how she’s lived, very harsh situations in which no one helped her. So, she turned to red shoes as a symbolism for hope and wealth. She feels alone even at the end before she’s free from the haunting of the red shoes. These all relate with how each of the characters are feeling due to how people treat and perceive them as they deal with circumstances, they cannot control but have learnt to.
Trauma
Again each of our characters are plagued with the past memories, and these are not pleasant and haunts them causing them to either avoid it (Moo Young) or fear it (the brothers and the butterflies) Each trauma is linked with violence, pain, and mystery. The boy with the nightmares can’t move on because of his trauma with his past, he’s stuck being unhappy because the nightmares was his norm. The girl with the red shoes suffers trauma from the obsession with the red shoes and is haunted by them till the very end before she gets relieved by death. Again, there’s this symbolism and idea of being haunted by something that’s not in their control.
Lack of control/Futility
This brings us to the theme of lack of control. Each of our characters feel this lack of freedom to be their true selves, but also this lack of control over their circumstances. Gang Tae can’t control his brother’s PTSD, so he moves each time it becomes bad and must run away again. Moo Young can’t control her disorder because she was born that way. Even if she tries to like the boy who fed on nightmares even when the nightmares he’s weighed down by the effect and stays unhappy. He still can’t control his happiness and his freedom in life. The girl with the red shoes is the same. She can’t control moving on her own anymore and can’t stop the shoes following her and obstructing her from peace. There’s an idea of futility/failure no matter how much they try to strive for happiness. But the ending always ends up freeing them.
Strength
Which brings us to Strength/Healing. The only positive thing that is a theme so far in this show. Which is why I’m sure it’ll be a happy ending. The boy with the nightmares is taught by the witch to embrace it rather than avoid it so he can survive and become strong from it. You need to be broken to be repaired, you need darkness to notice light. So, it’s a healing metaphor, even if life is out of their control, once they let go and embrace their scars they will start to heal. This is the same for the girl with the red shoes. She learns to humble herself and return to her old position before the angel finds her and gives her freedom. Like Moo Young will have to do, she must accept she has a problem, and get therapy, to achieve a relationship with Gang Tae. Gang Tae must face the past in order to get the truth and end the trauma both him and his brother have suffered from. It’s all about embracing the hurt and pain and letting your self become vulnerable so you can survive and get freedom. Basically, the characters need to stop trying to control everything. That’s why they’re destined to be together, Moo Young will teach Gang Tae how to stop avoiding pain and fear, and Gang Tae will teach Moo Young how to feel and let her self be healed since he is already working as a caretaker. They both will bring healing to each other by being themselves. I think that’s beautiful. This drama synopsis is about the road to healing that is caused by these two’s relationship even if it starts from obsession or need to protect. It will end up being a story about strength, love, and hope.
That’s what I’ve seen so far from the first two episodes. But it could be different.
Hi @pkml3. Yes, kind of steeling myself, but it’s not entirely too bad although I hate all scenes of cutting (especially hands being cut). Well we had 2 of those already!!
I’ve been mulling over the stories.
I liked that the fairy tales gave us backstory and more clues about the past or what is happening with the characters. As usual, they are also metaphorical. I’ve got the 4 ‘tales’ or stories typed up to examine. Please see what you want to do with them. I’ll separate them into 4 posts.
The first tale: we might tentatively name the animated story: Mun Yeong, the lonely girl and Gang Tae, the boy she hooked at one level, this has been shown in Ep 2, to be the story of MY and GT’s past. To stress the point, GT provides the voiceover narration of the story, and the girl’s voice is MY’s.
Narrator: “Long time ago there lived a beautiful girl in a castle located deep inside the forest. She was always alone, so she was lonely and bored.” (We see in Ep 2, that MY really did live in a house away from the town and that she had a balcony on which she stood alone.)
” So one day, she left the castle to find herself a friend to play with. She offered them all sorts of amazing gifts, but nobody ever accepted her. (She offered some children 2 dead birds, not understanding their revulsion.) Later on, she found out why.”
(A shadow comes from behind her and overshadows her in the shape of a tree. The other children run away. She looks behind and back to the front. Her hair grows and becomes a tree with spiky branches to be her shadow, with 5 eyes. The scary shadow of the tree remained behind her so that instead of a normal shadow, the grotesque shape of a waving tree followed her.)
Narrator: “A monster who brings along the shadow of death. That’s what the people called her. ‘She’s a monster. A monster.’ ”
“She was very angry at every living soul in the world. and she needed to take it out on someone.” (Seeing a hook and line, she hooked the boy from the water. The parallel is that in Ep 2 we see from the flashback that she saved GT from drowning.)
Narrator: “Ever since she had unexpectedly saved the boy from dying, the scary shadow that always followed her around suddenly disappeared.” (GT became her shadow that replaced the scary tree shadow.)
“And the boy always followed her around instead. He always went with her whether it was day or night and whether she was in the mountains or on a field.” (The scenery changes from night near a pond – across a bridge with plants growing from it which we will recognise in Ep 2 as a real bridge – amidst dark clouds – through a forest of bare trees against a pink sky – into night at the town, with petals falling.)
(The boy still has the hook and line attached to him and the end of the line is tied around MY’s wrist.)
Narrator: “On a clear and sunny day, the girl asked him this: “Hey, will you always stay by my side?”
Boy: (he held flowers to give to the Girl) “Of course. I will never run away.”
Girl: “Even after you see this?”
(She tears a butterfly into two and drops it. The Boy is aghast. The Girl’s eyes turn red and scary. The Boy looks down and sees many dead butterflies at her feet. The wind blows the dead wings and butterflies towards the boy. He runs away. The hook that had been in his shirt tears loose and drops. The Girl sees him go and looks down, seeming to be disappointed. Her shadow that had become normal gets replaced by the shadow of death once again.)
Narrator: “The girl was all alone again, and that’s when the shadow of death came back and whispered this.”
(We see that it’s no longer an animation but the adult Mun Yeong standing on the balcony)
“No one can ever stay by your side because you’re a monster. do not ever forget that. Do you understand?”
MY: “Yes, Mother.” (The sky is a crazy golden, orange. The story was told against unnatural colours. Although several scenes were golden and orangey, the scenes were not bright. Instead they remained disturbing. Camera zooms out.)
Mun Yeong, had wanted friends, and had somehow hooked one in the form of GT who was attracted to her and whom she had saved from drowning. He had promised to never run away, but that was the first thing he did when she killed the butterflies to test him. On the day he ran away, he was wearing red sneakers. He had been hooked to MY, unknowingly a puppet of hers, until he broke the string. But even after that, MY seems to have retained an unhealthy control over him through his memories of her.
At the end of Ep 2, she narrates ‘The Red Shoes’ to CEO Lee, as she drives to Seongjin City to be with her obsession, GT, whom she now knows was her childhood follower because of his home town.
MY’s voiceover: “Some things can’t be torn apart no matter how hard you try to do so.”
“I finally found my red shoes.” She had been bored and alone but now she has found GT, the Boy who had promised never to leave her, and perhaps hold him to his word or be a coward.
She might think that she can determine that he should/would always remain attached to her, because she is ‘entitled’, but I’d like to see that it will be because he grows to care for her that he remains. His healing may perhaps lie in his not running away (for the wrong reason) and hers in knowing that she will not be abandoned again.
The second tale, The Boy Who Fed on Nightmares
27:47 – “The boy woke up from another awful nightmare. Bad memories from the past that he wanted to erase from his head were replayed in his dreams every night and haunted him nonstop. The boy was terrified of falling asleep. So one day, he went to the witch and begged.
‘Please get rid of all my bad memories so that I won’t ever have a nightmare again. Then I will do everything you ask.’ ”
“Years went by, and the boy became an adult. He no longer had nightmares. But for some strange reason, he wasn’t happy at all.”
“One night, a blood moon filled the night sky, and the witch finally showed up again to take what he had promised in return for granting his wish. And he shouted at her with so much resentment.
‘All my bad memories are gone. But why can’t I become happy?’
Then the witch took his soul as they had promised, (we see a drawing of the witch with claw-like hands as a puppet-master with the boy as a puppet on the strings.) and told him this.”
“Hurtful, painful memories. Memories of deep regrets. memories of hurting others and being hurt. Memories of being abandoned. Only those with such memories buried in their hearts can become stronger, more passionate, and emotionally flexible. And only those can attain happiness.
“So don’t forget any of it. Remember it all and overcome it. If you don’t overcome it, you’ll always be a kid whose soul never grows.”
In the book of little Go Eun MY had also written “Never forget today.” A day that Go Eun will never forget since she was almost killed once again and the day her father did die.
MY’s view: All memories, especially unpleasant ones are to be kept and overcome as if they are enemies. If they are not overcome, they stunt our emotional growth. It’s interesting that although she herself cannot empathise or feel as others do, she is aware of what emotions are, and understands what it is to be emotionally flexible. She knows that being emotionally rigid makes for unhappiness. But she herself, in all likelihood, feels nothing, and she acts according to her own rigid way of thinking. She takes what she wants and punishes those who misbehave.
The third tale, The Red Shoes
This Hans Christian Andersen story, I find troubling and gruesome. Personally, as a child, I wouldn’t be at peace at bedtime, with a vision of amputated feet dancing in red shoes. The girl, Karen, (an un-favourite half sister of the author), chose red shoes over what was appropriate or let inconsequential wants determine her decisions, so that she was cursed to be controlled by them. A comment, I guess, on not letting vanity, or vain things take precedence over what really matters, ie relationship with God (as represented by failed attempts to enter the Church). She found no peace until she did what she should have done from the beginning, ie pray or give God his due place in her life.
I fancy that in all her stories, MY identifies herself as the ‘beautiful’ witch. The one whom others run to, to get wishes granted, the one with power to judge, and to punish. She thinks that she is the puppeteer who controls everything that she chooses, such as her work or her chosen subject/puppet (GT). (She is the opposite of Karen, and does not see that part about being subject to a higher authority.)
We see that CEO Lee and all the Publishing House are well and truly under her thumb, and that she dismisses all suggestions for change in her books. There was in the write up of either the ballet or the film adaptation of The Red Shoes the idea of an artist (or writer) having absolute control, ie about “the supposedly godlike artist who seeks to control those around him.” (https://www.gradesaver.com/the-red-shoes) This seems to suit our MY.
Ironically, seeing GT as the Red Shoes, MY thinks of fusing her life with GT’s so as to be inseparable, without considering that by putting on the Red Shoes, she is willingly subjecting herself to be controlled by her obsession. Also ironically, (as I mentioned above), I wonder to what extent she aware that she is in possession of and under the control of the Red Shoes of her ASPD, the condition which controls her life. She knows that she is not a patient and thinks herself fine, except for that little matter of being called a monster since her early years.
The fourth tale, Sang Tae’s Dream
The decoration around his bed became a drawing of a butterfly and a dream butterfly. We see the patterns on the wings of the butterfly – a circular pattern becomes the moon.
We see a silhouette of a young Sang Tae, moving among a sparse spread of trees on sloping grounds. We see him holding his toy Stegosaurus dangling from his left hand.
The focus shifts suddenly to a butterfly that’s huge (the music is startling) and ST looks afraid. “What? Butterflies … No those butterflies!”
He runs through the trees panting fearfully. One butterfly follows. He runs along in a stream of water. Then there is a big swarm of butterflies which ultimately catch up and cover his face.
Sang Tae screams and wakes up and zips himself up for protection in the tent wardrobe.
ST: “Those butterflies. They said they’ll kill me. The butterflies will kill me! They’re coming to kill me! I have to run away. I have to go. I must run away!”
Poor Sang Tae bears the trauma of seeing the killer and probably witnessing his mother’s murder, without ever being able to describe the killer. Now that he and his brother are returning to their old home town which still holds memories of that tragedy for GT, I hope that we may get closure for that first trauma that started GT running away from imaginary butterflies.
A scary thought … deliberately planted in these 2 episodes is the idea that MY who is associated with butterflies, can commit murder. And we know her father fears her, and her mother suddenly died. Now we hear of another murder in the past, when MY was in Seongjin City. This show certainly knows how to put many things in place for the next lap. I trust it will not be too straightforward because of course, we don’t want to root for an anti-heroine only to find out that she’s guilty of more than killing butterflies and flowers.
@BeingWritten
To tell you the truth, I’m no expert in ASPD. My lay person’s understanding of it is that the sufferer like MY does not think anything is really wrong with them. They may find that they can’t get on with people but they find ways to ‘live with’ people and learn to ‘appear to have emotions’, when they actually do not. So when you say happy state… I guess she knows that she is lonely and wants to attach someone to herself. It may start out more as in seeing a person as something to possess, but perhaps she can grow from that idea with GT’s help or protests. LOL.
I believe ASPD sufferers sort of reach their peak in how bad they can be as adults… not sure if they can get worse. She may choose to not control her desire to punish and commit atrocities. This can appear to us to be ‘worse’ but perhaps she did not get worse, but only that she did not manifest it in that terrible way.
At the most, she can learn to be aware of her thoughts and behaviour and if she chooses, she can learn to change them, but it’s not because the ASPD gets better or worse.
At this stage, we really don’t know, and anything we say are just guesses. I mentioned the scary thought above under the Fourth Tale. That is just saying that the show has put in indications for possible connections.
One interpretation of her father trying to strangle her is that he found her psychopathic behaviour dangerous and monstrous and wanted to stop her from hurting others. She may have done more than harm butterflies and her father may have known it.
I’d like to know if she ever got some psychotherapy or any therapy that might have helped her.
At this stage we can slot GT in as an angel who does both curse and bless her if we wish. If she sees him as the Red Shoes, she is actually cursing herself in her obsession with him. By his eventual growth and caring as the care-giver who does not run away, he may also offer her blessing. In any case, we need to wait and see.
About situations being connected, in kdramas, they usually are LOL.
@GB
– “the idea that MY who is associated with butterflies, can commit murder. And we know her father killer her and her mother died”
I got a different idea, not that MY is responsible in any way for the murder of GT’s mum, but that she may have messed with that murderer, since she is the one killing the butterflies.
This feeling started to form after the animation in the beginning ends with:
“The girl was all alone again, and that’s when the shadow of death came back and whispered this:
– No one can ever stand by your side because you’re a monster”
It’s her mother telling her this.
The scary shadow that follows her is her mother. And I had this feeling starting from then that the mother must have been the real monster.
Her mum’s shadow is still following her. MY says at one point that her mother’s soul still lives, although she’s been dead for a long time. Because it’s still following her.
After I saw GT’s problem has a fear of butterflies, and that someone connected to butterflies killed their mom, I felt MY was harming real butterflies too because they were connected to a murderer.
Her mother maybe?
Did she kill her mother? Who had maybe butterflies tattoos or something? Is that why the father tried to kill her and himself?
Anyway, I may be influenced by Born Again in reading everything like this. That was a messed up drama but it actually had a mentally troubled main lead messed up by his parents who were the real monsters. And butterflies tattooed on a serial killer.
GT’s brother not “problem”. GT’s brother had a problem with butterflies 🙂
@oli,
I also suspect that MY’s mother may have been the real monster, but it is too early to tell. I am curious if MY and/or her mother is somehow connected with the murder of ST and GT’s mom.
Also, does MY illustrate her stories herself? When I first read that the character wrote fairytales for children, I imagined the stories to be oriented more towards older children and teens. I was surprised that her books were more like picture books for younger kids. I found the illustrations just as disturbing as the stories.
@BeingWritten,
I read your very long commentary, and everything you say makes sense. I also have this feeling about the last part, the healing process.
You should put your blog address in the “website” box when you send a comment, so we can have a look at it.
@GB,
After reading this very long commentary, I started reading you.
And then …
I saw 4 other comments just as long as the one of BeingWritten that I had trouble finishing.
oO!!!! 🥶
Then I ran out of my house screaming. 😱 😱 😱
Right now, I’m still in the street, screaming and writing this message at the same time.
🥵
In truth, I read what I could. 😉
To get revenge, I’m also posting a long comment. 🙂
(am I able to write short ones, anyway)
The girl is lonely, and one day she tries to have friends.
But the gifts she gives are horrible. She doesn’t realize it. Transposed into reality, this can correspond to a way of behaving.Coldly giving money instead of a sincere thank you, for example. At the end of the episode, a short dialogue with the ML indicates that this is her way of thinking. She’s even ok for sex, lol! cold-sex, of course. She doesn’t think about the human approach. It’s a trope we often see in dramas.
In the animated tale, we can therefore assume a family context that has distorted her sense of human contact. It’s tragic for the character. She thinks she is doing well with her gifts, but she is rejected without being able to understand the reason.
At the end, the character says “Yes mother”, but it’s an answer to death that speaks to her. It’s like she’s saying “Yes death”. Her mother is an embodiment of death = living a “lifeless” life. Such is the sad fate of FL.
I will give an example of a relative who had a cat: one day the cat comes into the house, holding a dead mouse in its mouth. This relative got angry with the cat and chased it away (not permanently, I reassure you). From the cat’s point of view (I learned something about the life of cats), it was a gift. The cat was happy, and proud to bring back a dead mouse.The difference between this cat and our FL is that the cat is instinctively like this and is right to follow its instincts, whereas the human instincts of FL have been distorted by its painful past or bad upbringing.
I am not ruling out a serious psychiatric illness, but at the moment the evidence of the story does not lead me in that direction.
When FL meets the little girl, she is disgusted when the little girl tells her that she is as beautiful as a princess. FL doesn’t want that! She prefers the character of the witch. So she’s a beautiful witch, as you say.
That reminds me of all the young women who reject the idea of being a princess. It’s a common thought, but often wrong and through, when it doesn’t correspond to deep psychology.
I think that any woman, beautiful or ugly, intelligent or silly, can be a man’s princess (it’s all about complementarity). If this rejection implies a faulty psychology, the counterpart can be devastating. This corresponds to FL. Life of loneliness, impossibility of finding love. Rejection even of a love life. Personal suffering, and/or redirected to others. This raises a societal problem. Someone here said that they had seen comments where FL was seen in a positive light as “badass”. In reality, this is the negative aspect that is shown in the drama. In real life, there is no super-women, nor is there a super-men. Just people having difficulty finding their true self, and getting lost. I’m curious to see if the drama will deal with these subjects, or rather how it will deal with them. The drama’s modus operandi is similar to FL stories at the moment, a bit like if the screenwriter was a witch, showing where bad choices lead.
I, too, wondered if the murderer might be one of MY’s parents.
I would like to know more about GT and ST’s friend who follows them from place to place whenever they move. I didn’t get a clear idea of the history of the friendship or whether they met after the boys left their hometown. He now knows the nurse, who was at school with MY. I shall have to rewatch.
@WEnchanteur you echo my emotions! I’m unable to keep up with comment threads on this blog. And mind you, I want to. Because people write very sensibly here and with a lot of background information. Alas!
@Arishi
LOL!
It’s nice to be able to talk about what’s going on in the story, rather than getting upset about how the drama is being told. When it’s done right, I forget that dimension, wrongly so. Everything seems obvious at this level, I just get immersed as the ordinary spectator I am and it’s what I’m looking for. But I’ll enjoy reviewing the episodes and trying to capture more things at all levels.
I forgot one thing:
When the ML’s friend tells him he looks like the joker.
By making a hint like that, I expect the character to go completely off the rails at some point. The detonator is the FL.
The first scene of the drama. Not every drama needs a sensational first scene. But it’s a piece of advice to writers: get the reader hooked very quickly. It is also a need for those who want to be published, because publishers have stacks of books on offer. The same goes for the cinema, the producer has a lot of scripts on his table, and the beginning of the script has to catch the reader’s eye.
It’s a matter of personal taste, I prefer it too! It’s just that I like what is striking, even if it’s not very subtle.
The first scene of the drama has great hitting power, as well as being original. It’s quite rare to see that.
But I also like dramas where the power of the beginning is spread over several scenes or sequences, like Master Sun for example.
The counter example is Nine Time Travel: the first whole episode has nothing to catch on! And yet the drama is going to be great afterwards.
hey guys sorry I just like researching and writing in a lot of detail haha. I’ll just send the link to my long posts so you can read it on my tumblr when I do them. But I agree with everything you guys are saying. I actually predict that Sleeping Witch (episode 3 title) could be about her mother, because she’s physically asleep but her soul is alive. I also think her mother might have a severe version of ASPD because there’s this link to the novels about murder and detective stories. We know the fairytales are linked to the character’s situations so maybe her mother has enough information through being a killer/ not having emotions or feelings for the people she kills? I also think that this theory might be then explain MY’s link to butterflies since she kills them. And to the brothers the butterflies are a symbol of the murderer. Maybe MY intervened and did something to the murderer. I noticed this as well that just her being her self like being violent and dangerous is only shown when she’s defending someone especially the brothers, so even though she’s meant to be dangerous to them because of her situation but for some reason she kinda also saves them through her violence and unfeeling choices. She even saved GT when he almost drowned. So I think she’s destined to keep saving in that way and probably did do so in the past. If she did murder her mum to protect someone then I can see why she is connected with the killing of the butterflies as a metaphor. Hope this makes sense.
Here’s my blog : https://www.tumblr.com/blog/life-rewritten
@GB everything you said was great and I loved how you analysed the fairytales. When I spoke about ASPD getting worse I didn’t mean it as the condition getting worse but the consequences get worse when interlinked with GT? I’m guessing if it’s not her mum or father that’s the murder, there’ll be more opportunities for situations that need violence for protection. Because ST believes that the butterfly is coming back because it told him it would. So I can see the murderer being a shadow in the story and that would lead to more violent escapes used to save each other. Also if she’s connected in anyway to the mother’s death with a link to her ASPD, that would also be another worse situation as well. Cause they are interlinked but it may not be for a good reason. Also situations where she’s feeling lack of control could increase which could lead to more reactions she can’t control and that might also be linked to her relationship with GT.
Hi B’s, I am loving this in many levels. Without going into the themes,froma ourely visual, creative point of view-it’sdownright cinematic. The TimBurtonesque animation is fantasticandmirrorsthe live characters beautifully. I have to say that Icould lookat the FL costumes forever-the dresses and accessories arebeautiful and strange. The FL, Seo Ye-ji is new to me but whenever she’son the screen, I can’t take my eyes off her. She’s scary beautiful and the chemistry she has with the gorheous Kim Soo-Hyun is intense. I think that OhnJung-se plays a particularkind of person onthe spectrum so well. As stated before, his lack of eye contact, perseveration, repetition of phrases, his types of meltdowns are spot on. His performance so far, isbeautifully layered. It is in stark contrast to his sleazy husband in Camelias. And just want to repeat that I know intimately, what being on the spectrum means. People who are verbal on the spectrum have abilities-like reading, but may be so sensory overloaded that yhey can’t function and meltdown. The book signing scene really captured this. Also, did a great job inshowing how some people on the spectrum lack social awareness and have few boundaries and have intense interests. When big brother went up to dinosaur kid and started touching him and discussing dinosaurs, I was reminded of many adults in the spectrum who knowme, who are happy to see me,touchmeand start spouting facts that meet their interests. One tells me my age, asks my address, tells me how to get home and asks for my friends and relatives in a repetitive loop. ahe’s a sweetheart with the savant quality of being a human map-you won’t need gps with him in the car.
The other maincomment I want to make right now is how the drama flips the script in gender roles. It’s the male lead who is the caregiver and who is the sensitive soul. The female lead is the rich author, moneymaker with ubderlings, who shows little empathy except when circumstances anger her. So I am curious to see how they “humanize” her and strengthen the malelead. I do lovethat inhis way, he chqllenges her. I also love how this is a learning show, e.g., the butterfly hug.
And I have one plot theory. I think there will be something about how big brother draws in her books. I am interested in how it plays out.
And as you might guess, I’m hooked, based onall of the above and the wonderful production values (her big shoe and bidy like a fairy tale giant focusing in on him and picking him up like Jack and the beanstalk. (alsobook illustrations remind me of Shel Silverstein books). Soo good!
Yes, @Wenchanteur, I wrote too about the Joker comparison by his friend. It came out of the blue and it is ominous. It makes me wonder a bit about what his friend knows about GT and his early history. I felt the hairs raise on my neck, didn’t you?
If this were a Western drama, I would be asking myself if the FL had suffered sexual abuse (by Butterfly?) and reacted by turning off her sensitivities. I thought this due to her strange attitude to sex, her mother’s grotesque way of blaming her and her cruelty to butterflies (representing the abuser). But the drama prob. won’t go there (esp. if it’s rated 13+). That’s good, but I feel there is some further horror in her background.
I feel bad that the ML told her she was born that way and that other posters think she has little chance to have a normal life because she has ASPD. If true, it’s very sad. It’s a learning curve for me and I’m both dreading and interested to see more about this.
@GB, great catch on another pair of red shoes: the sneakers young GT wore when he ran away from young MY. I believe there’s a third set of red shoes from an allusion we get. At the bookstore where MY is doing her event, we see a display of her mother’s last book, published posthumously (so we know MY’s mother is dead), entitled “The Murder of the Witch of the West.” This ties in with either L. Frank Baum’s novel “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz” or the 1939 film based on it, “The Wizard of Oz.” However, in the book, the magic shoes Dorothy wears are silver; the Ruby Slippers are in the movie. (Their color was changed to showcase Technicolor.)
In the Wizard of Oz movie, Dorothy’s house falls on and kills the Wicked Witch of the East, who was the owner of, and was wearing, the Ruby Slippers. The Wicked Witch of the West arrives at the scene of her sister’s death.
(from https://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/wizard-of-oz-the/views.html)
Wicked Witch: Who killed my sister? Who killed the Witch of the East?! Was it you?!
Dorothy: No, no it was an accident. I didn’t mean to kill anybody!
Wicked Witch: Well, my little pretty, I can cause accidents too.
Glinda: Aren’t you forgetting the ruby slippers?
Wicked Witch: The slippers. Yes! The slippers… [She reaches for them, but they disappear and the feet curl up under the house] They’re gone! The ruby slippers. What have you done with them? Give them back to me or I’ll…
Glinda: [after the slippers appear on Dorothy’s feet] It’s too late. There they are and there they’ll stay.
Wicked Witch: Give me back my slippers. I’m the only one that knows how to use them. They’re no use to you. Give them back to me. Give them back!
Glinda: Keep tight inside of them. Their magic must be very powerful, or she wouldn’t want them so badly.
Thus begins the life-or-death battle between the Witch of the West and Dorothy over possession of the Ruby Slippers. The Wicked Witch of the West tells us why she wants those shoes so badly, as she’s looking in her crystal ball at Dorothy and her companions approaching the Emerald City: “So, you won’t take warning, eh? All the worse for you. I’ll take care of you now instead of later. When I gain those ruby slippers, my power will be the greatest in Oz.”
We know how it turns out for the Wicked Witch of the West: Dorothy splashes water on her, and she melts. https://youtu.be/aopdD9Cu-So. In the mind of MY’s mother, this was murder. I wonder if we’ll learn anything about the plot of Do Hui Jae’s last crime novel. And in her red stilettos, is MY Dorothy, or one of the two Wicked Witches whose fate was to be accidentally killed by Dorothy?
I am late to the party but all I will say is that this one is a dark visually appealling fest.
I love how the story is told and the techniques used are to my taste. Even when I close my eyes and hear the narration in the Female Lead’s voice… it gives me a radio feel (i dont understand korean but i dont care!).
Also, this reminds me of Tim Burton’s style in someways. And some if the transitions are so Pan’s labyrinth. Colours and that older brother’s excited walk is a mix of Amelie and Shape of water.
I am gushing but as of now it reminds me of all interesting cinematic experiences.
I am looking forward to reading everyone’s thoughts. I just hope the drama can walk the tight rope and continue doing what it is doing right now, please 🙂
The chart of emotions in the brothers house was a detail that reminded me of Mark Haddon’s first book.
@nrllee i like the pain and butterfly post.
Interesting but red dancing shoes is told in so many different ways. The film speaks of the girl with the dancing shoes dying because the shoes wouldnt stop, here the legs get chopped off (like the wings of the butterflies?)
Back to lurking 🙂
@Welmaris. that is so brilliant OMG I didn’t even notice the name of the book or the allusions to wizard of oz!!! That’s so good and yeh that points to more proof that she accidentally intervened with the murderer and GT situation! You have such a good eye for detail. Wow! I’m wondering if we’re going to get a title for the episode will Allude you’re this as well. But is wizard of oz a fairytale? It has some similarities but I’m not sure. Either way this was brilliant’
@Old American Lady, I am seeing many behaviors being acted out by Oh Jung Se, who portrays ST, even when they may not be noticed by viewers unfamiliar with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Did you see the repetitive tongue movement? The jiggling leg when ST and GT were on the bus? What I am having trouble with–and this may be because the bulk of my experience has been with one person in one part of the spectrum–is how ST is shown to be child-like. I have met a number of people who are on the spectrum who are brilliant in terms of IQ, but lack in terms of EQ: they have difficulty reading social cues, interpreting facial expressions, are naive and vulnerable, but aren’t immature in the way ST is portrayed. That’s why I didn’t buy into the depiction of ST’s inner life while out in the city being like a cartoon. Rather, with autism frequently causing hypersensitivity to stimulus, and with potential high for becoming overloaded, being in an unfamiliar and frenetic setting likely would cause anxiety for an autistic person.
Is MY’s mother actually dead? I thought she was “presumed dead” by MY (during her conversation with JuRi when signing papers for her dad). She may well have just walked out of their lives? Maybe she couldn’t deal with being the carer of a child with ASPD? It’s not easy. The responsibility is huge because you cop the blame (bad parenting) for your child’s misdeeds.
Oh and I wanted to add (latent thoughts when i try to move away from the illusion created by children’s tales)-
I think the male lead might not be as giving as these two episodes show. Was there never any resentment of sorts of what he has had to sacrifice for bringing up his older brother?
The show does hint blatantly that the FL might be a killer. But I feel it is misleading. However, the murder of the father … who else could it be! That dad and daughter made me question everything: could the father really not be “bad” as the little one cries? What is bad? Killing a child is bad enough or is it mercy killing as the overburdened state cant look after the child/as a parent I am best placed to look after my child (¿?¿)!! Can we ever offer any meaningful alternative?
Also, i would like to posit (and am mixing too many thoughts incoherantly, sorry): are we not judging ASPD as a condition too harshly? The way people treat or even acknowledge the condition is very country and class specific. The FL comes from a rich/affluent family — some abusive story lurks in her past. My first reaction was also father being a sexual predator (american beauty reference for ML’s of all the films!!) but we will see.
For some people love is a choice but for others it is a way of life. They cant help but give, sometimes to all and sometimes to a few that their hearts(??) Choose. I cant claim that I understand love but how people love (or what they claim as love) is something I have spent hours thinking about, just to come up with my own theories. 😀
We as a society prefer structures and organization so we want everyone to conform to some standards. Yes hurting someone just because I want to see a reaction maybe wrong but then again what is right? I have been reading some works on terrorists and suicide bombers (just because one my favourite journalists has been doing some great work around it) and if you listen to the podcast made on some of young ISIS recruits who returned home… it makes me question everything! It shows how conditioning or long exposure can change people radically. You logic might sound nonsense to someone just because rules of the society changed for them. (I used a very extreme example but we are discussing murder, mental health and what motivated pain+murder)
One simple but weird example that I will add is from the series Faith. The FL from the mordern world considers hurting someone a crime while the ML considers killing someone his duty (simplistic version). Who is right? Who is wrong if we remove the societal context and just compare?
the older brother sees the world differently (he sees the dinosour move) it reminded me of what an old aunt who lived in my lane used to say: my little brother is special. What he sees is a colourful world that you and I can never appreciate. It is only a chosen few who can live with the innocence of a child throughout their lives. It is him who received a bounty! normality is over-rated! After all what is normality? Is everyone not suffering some mental illness or the other? That often made me think that if we were born in a world where people like her brother were more in number then would they be a normality while my brain would be “special”?
Also, related to ASPD: i know there are people who want to move into the zone where they would not feel pain. ASPD would be when one crosses the line of the “norm” or scale. The premise of what I am saying is flawed as basic humane values if absent, then the person has a personality disorder.
I am not rebellious but I am questioning what are “basic human values”? Are we ever truly confirming to them and if yes, how when and why were they defined?
Anyway, it was fun to think out aloud though for this one drama I have decided to first watch and contemplate when everything is revealed.
About MY being the author of “fairy tales” for children. Her books are much closer to fairy tales of old, before they were Disneyfied. Fairy tales were scary to frighten children into good behavior, to teach morality. They were gruesome because life was rough. Few children were coddled in the past as they are today.
Did anyone notice the sign for MY’s newest book, “Zombie Kid,” on the side of the bus GT rode when leaving the publishing company? The animation of the Zombie Kid had him pointing directly up at GT. That’s a direct message to us viewers.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pf68K9CowQjG0gxdtMI6ujyZEq4kufX9/view?usp=sharing
The reaction of MY’s fans, now anti-fans, is so ironic: they’re burning her books, tee shirts and other images, with her head in effigy pinned to a cross, holding her picture as a death portrait. Their behavior is far worse than hers! The TV announcer says, “Meanwhile, some even say her name should be removed from the list of candidates for the Hans Christian Andersen Award.” We are soon reminded that Hans Christian Andersen’s story “The Red Shoes” is gruesome. Her style of storytelling fits right in with his!
@nrllee, I’m going to put the conversation about MY’s parents here so it will be easier for us to find for reference:
MY: I told you that he’s dead. I’m an orphan. You know that.
JooRi: But your mother is alive…
MY: I registered her death a long time ago. Do you want to hear something interesting? My dad’s soul is dead, but he’s physically alive like a zombie. As for my mom, she physically died many years ago. However, her soul is still alive. So between the two of them, who’s really dead? Tell me, nurse. Which one of them is really dead?
We don’t know who is the more reliable source here. Why does JooRi say MY’s mother is alive? Would it be possible to register the death of a person who is, in fact, alive?
Does anyone from South Korea know the process of registering a death? What proof has to be provided for a death to be registered?
@Welmaris, I agree that MY’s fairy tales are in the spirit of the older medieval stories which were quite scary , for the reasons you pointed out.
Now that I think about it, Andersen’s tales bridge the old Germanic fairy tales and the Victorian sensibilities of his time.
I noticed that in the family photograph MY was holding (while curled in a fetal position in her hotel room),the mother’s image was completely missing, torn off. The father was still in the picture, but the picture was folded, so he was not visible until MY unfolded the photograph. I want to see more scenes of MY’s childhood. As @WEnchanteur pointed out, the introductory story provides the roadmap for this drama.
Mom is dead.
At the book signing, her work was on display, too. It was published posthumously.
“The Queen of Crime Fiction Do Hui-je’s posthumous work.” Title of book was “Death of the Witch of the West”
Posthumous book = book published after writer’s death 🙂
MY didn’t kill GT’s mom.
She was same age as GT when homicide occurred. Mom sustained stab wound to the neck. MY was too short to stab mom.
Plus mom was found in tunnel, face down. Stab wound on left side of neck. Attacker likely came from behind. If so, attacker was left-handed. MY is right-handed.
Killer likely surprised GT’s mom from behind because no sign of struggle or defensive wound. 🙂
Also not sure if body was moved. If scene of crime was somewhere else, MY couldn’t have carried mom.
Yeah @packmule3 but that could be because she’s presumed dead? MY registered her death. It does seem odd that JuRi said mom’s alive?
I know this is kinda gruesome to think of but some parents do have that thought (and carry it out) that their child is better off dead. I know parents of disabled children who often wish their child would perish before they themselves die because they think it’s “kinder”. They don’t want to leave the child destitute or institutionalised. So potentially MY’s dad could be the same. He couldn’t deal with her growing up to be a Monster. He thought it better for society that she were dead. Put yourself in KT’s shoes. If he (KT) died, who would look after ST? Who would care for him with the same love and devotion? He could potentially be abused and left to fend for himself.
This is the mom’s character brief from TVN (http://program.tving.com/tvn/tvnpsycho/8/Contents/Html?h_seq=7)
도희재 (문영의 어머니, 범죄추리 소설가)
우정원
짧은 시간에 베스트셀러 작가로 성공하면서 존재감을 세상 밖으로 알린다. 글을 쓰면서 남편에겐 좀 소홀했을지언정, 딸의 양육에 관해서만큼은 혼신을 쏟았다. 인생의 전부인냥 보듬고 사랑했다. 5년 간 연재하던 〈서쪽 마녀의 살인〉 시리즈의 마지막 권을 탈고한 그날 밤. 그녀는 남편이 건축한 ‘숲속의 성’에서 흔적도 없이 사라진다. 세월이 흐르면서 자동 사망처리가 된 그녀의 행방은… 여전히 미스터리다.
Roughly translated from Naver
She makes her presence known to the world by succeeding as a best-selling author in a short time. While writing, I might have neglected my husband, but I devoted myself to raising my daughter. I cared and loved as if she were my whole life. The night after the final book of the “The Murder of the Western Witch” series, which had been running for five years. She disappears without a trace from the ‘forest castle’ her husband built. Her whereabouts, which became automatic death-treatment over time… Still a mystery.
@Welmaris, good questions. It’s Autism Spectrum disorder so some are childlike, some are introspectuve and are able to pick up on other’s feelings. The people on the more neurotypical part of the spectrum and those whomare organized thrill to there differences and on various websites are glad to be atypical (there is a Netflix showby that name that follows a group of comedians on the spectrum). There arevsome oeople who pass as neurotypical. So one size doesn’t fit all. There are two novels I’d like to recommend that are written by Helen Hoang, The Kiss Quotient and The Bride Test, both romances on the spectrum by a writer on the spectrum, who is if Vietnamese background.. They are so good and fun (andvshe writes lovely eritica in them-not 50 Shades of Gray).So in this drama, they do a realistic job of portraying one personon the spectrum. Hope this helps and if you get to read the novels -enjoy.
^disclaimer – I am not saying it’s right to ever kill your own child. But just highlighting that potential is there for that thought to percolate in the mind.
LOL loved that @pkml3. You sounded like the police at the scene of the crime laying out what to look out for. I was only half serious. I like to play the devil’s advocate on the preposterous side.
She was a pretty big kid. Tall enough to stab someone in the neck, though unlikely to do so with left hand from the back. Could adult have been taken by surprise if sweet looking kid came from the side?
So if MY didn’t do it (or didn’t carry it out with help from an adult!!) and if show decides to re-investigate this, we should be looking for a left handed person who was an adult at the time of the murder.
I like crime investigation, if well done. My interest level will go up a notch.
Thanks @nrllee! This was helpful and interesting!! I seldom bother to read character briefs or watch previews etc… but I’m beginning to think I should!!!
Why do I find the mum saying that she devoted herself to raising her daughter to be chilling? Then the part about loving her as if she were her whole life makes the mother sound like the one with issues!!! Errr… controlling? Obsessive? Possessive?
Just judging (probably unfairly based on insufficient data) from this armchair, I wonder if MY might not have been all that problematic but mum ‘made’ her more ‘monstrous’ than she ever should have been. Admitting that she might have neglected her husband already raises red flags. Poor man. He might have been a victim of both the wife and then the daughter? LOL I’m letting my imagination run away.
I agree that under certain extreme circumstances, the father trying to kill MY might have been his mistaken way to ‘help’ her (or society) in the long run. He might also have been trying to preserve his own life, since now he fears for it when MY is mentioned.
So this character brief explains why Ju Ri says MY’s mum is still alive and MY says she registered her death. She does say that ‘she physically died many years ago. However her soul is alive.’ How can she be sure that her mother physically died, unless she saw it. All we know is that she had stopped writing and disappeared.
Another dark and delicious mystery to unravel!! 😏
As for MY’s father, he has dementia but that does not mean his ‘soul is dead’. He is ‘dead to MY’ but still alive physically. He is also capable of understanding how to be afraid of MY. So his soul is far from dead. She says, “My dad’s soul is dead, but he’s physically alive like a zombie.” Now I’d like to know the story of Zombie Boy, the last book she produced before she probably gets a whole lot of backlash and bans after that Ep Book Signing event. Might Zombie Boy tell us about the dad or about GT or about MY herself? (rhetorical question!) 😝
@nrllee Okay yeh I think that clears a lot of things her disappearance is definitely connected to MY and the murder then.Still unsure if she’s one who did but I find it odd her description is saying that she tried to devote to her daughter. Her daughter MY’s pov is different her story it’s her mum who tells her she’s a monster doomed to be alone not really sure if this means she tried to at first but then snapped and abandoned the family after seeing her husband try to kill MY. She ran away from her own issues like the characters are doing as well. If so she still could represent the butterflies that are coming back if she was also there in the murder scene and Sang Tae saw her.
@packmule
That’s great deduction and makes more sense. I still the whole day events that day are interlinked and she probably interfered one time in the murder scene. Can’t wait to learn what sleeping witch and zombie boy is about!!!
@Welmaris I worked with an autistic client and we discussed about the Autism spectrum and it’s exactly as Old American Lady said. That scene actually portrayed someone on the same line of spectrum as ST well.
@no one I also am starting to think I’m describing ASPD really harshly it’s one of the toughest disorder to wrap my head round because each time I read it I have so many questions about emotions and feelings that I never understand about it. Either way this drama hopefully has researched the condition more and will not use it just a plot device like some series do. But we shall see.
Hi @Welmaris So nice reading you. I’ve been interrupted so much, I couldn’t construct a reply.
BTW what a good catch about the poster of the Zombie Boy pointing at GT. LOL. Love that this Show drops clues and info in animation on a fairly regular basis (so far). Not sure if it can keep it up, but I like that there’s more than 1 kind of animation and special effects being used as well. How apt that MY autographs and gives the Zombie Boy book to the original that inspired it! 😆
Great to know! Thanks for this. I wasn’t paying attention to the title of Do Hui Jae’s book and I only vaguely recall slippers, not ruby ones in particular. More intrigue! We can play the game of ‘Who is the wearer of the red shoes/slippers?’
This is chilling and if it actually had been mentioned in the show, it might have been a foreshadowing… but even here with us just us chatting about Red Slippers … I note that this is a statement that is repeated with a slight difference by Dorothy. The cyclone of course was not under her control (unless we are speaking of a metaphorical cyclone, such as a violent temper tantrum) and was an accident. So too was splashing water on the Witch of the West. But Dorothy is somehow associated, directly or not, with witches dying. Like the witch, the wearer of the Red Shoes could accidentally (on purpose) cause more accidents.
Reading @Welmaris and @nrllee, it sounds to me like MY’s mother went missing and enough time elapsed to presume that she died (sort of like Se-ri in CLOY.) IF MY’s mother is dead, perhaps only MY knows for sure.
I wondered if the mother is the murderer but MY was somehow involved with the weapon or the scene in a way that she was thought to be guilty by the other parent. Likewise, the father could have been the murderer. Whichever parent, the father could have tried to strangle MY either for her own good (if he thought her guilty) or to prevent MY from telling the truth (if a witness) to protect himself or his wife.
I don’t think that the mother is dead. When MY says she physically died but her soul is alive, makes me think of someone in a coma. Welmaris said we can’t know yet if Ju-ri or MY is more reliable in knowing that the mother is dead. If she were comatose, I would understand the ‘dead with her soul alive’ train of thought, but the death could not be registered unless she was undocumented.
I wonder how much is reality and how much is a story that MY is weaving around the circumstances and facts. For example, if the mother’s soul is alive but she is really dead, is it because the ‘witch’ collected her soul?
Brilliant analysis @GB 👍
I really like how seamless the transitions are in this drama. It just flows naturally from one world to the other. The past and the present. The fairy tale world and the real world. It depends on whose eyes you’re using to view the event. The bus ride when KT recounts their escape from social services blends into the present bus at the terminal as he says goodbye to JuRi. She’s the complete antithesis of MY isn’t she? Sweet and kind.
@nrllee Thanks 😄. Yes this is a show in which it matters greatly, whose eyes were are looking out of, who the narrator is and if he is reliable or not. So far we cannot tell if everyone is truthful, but we do see that MY can be wickedly disturbing with her brand of ‘jokes’.
It’s that familiar situation with GT and the 2 ladies. The better, saner, wiser choice would be Ju Ri, who already likes GT a lot. However, I believe Jae Su is not unwilling to be paired off with Ju Ri as well, and the fascination that MY holds for GT will override everything wise and safe with Ju ri.
The other little thing is that MY is never going to accept any rejection by or any appropriation of who she deems hers. The stage is set (almost) for the next acts of the play.
Hi @Oli, finally found your email which I saw but didn’t manage to get back to.
You mean that MY knew the killer and may have had a part in provoking, experimenting or ‘encouraging’ the killing to take place?
This is entirely possible, and sadly quite common. Messed up parents mess up their kids. I toyed with the idea somewhere above, that mum made MY ‘worse’ by her ‘loving and caring for her as if she were her own life’ – I misquote what was written in the character summary given by @nrllee… but something like that. Totally suffocating and of course one’s child is NOT one’s own life. They have their own life to live. Her mum might have been very brilliant and very ill.
This is something to keep in mind as we watch. LOL I just know that the bunch of us are going to be jumping up with excitement every time there’s any reference to butterflies, red shoes, zombies and more tales. 😬 😁
@GB,add balconies to recurring things we need to watch for, especially balconies on which MY is standing. So far (if I remember all of them):
-Girl on balcony in beginning animation
-MY on decrepit-looking balcony saying “Yes, Mother” to being labeled a monster.
-MY watching GT from publishing company balcony and going through the motions of snatching him.
-Publisher threatening to throw himself from the balcony after MY’s behavior at book signing causes backlash.
@GB I just watched Alias Grace on Netflix and it was terribly disturbing…but I couldn’t stop. Binged it to the end. And still I am unsure as to how to read the FL… did she or didn’t she? 😬. I get the feeling we’re heading that way with this drama.
OK Thanks @Welmaris… Adding ‘balcony’ as repeating image. 😁
There was also an animation in the opening credits or Ep 2 and the cut out figure of MY stood on a balcony attached to a book instead of to a house… ie the house/castle/(psycho ward?) was a book.
To all Bitches, EVERYONE and @Welmaris,
My notes on the opening credits which is dense with images. This is from Ep 2. I have questions … can anyone help to answer them?
We see in black and white and we hear whimsical music:
= = =
Anyone has interpretations of these images? 😃 I believe that they give us clues to interpreting the show.
Did anyone mention that the butterfly is often used as an emblem for mental health? We had the butterfly hug in Ep2. There’s the Butterfly Project which is created for self harmers – they are encouraged to draw a butterfly on themselves as opposed to self harming (https://www.adolescentselfinjuryfoundation.com/the-butterfly-project). Butterfly Foundation (in Australia) is a place for eating disorders.
@GB I always skip the intro 😂 I will watch it to see if I can glean anything. Probably not enough at the moment to give us much with only 2 episodes under our belt.
@no one, Just think of each person on tbe spectrum as unique. Autism presents differently in each person. Some people are very impaired. You’ll see some in helmets to preventbthem from injuring themselves while banging their heads. There are some commonalities that I think are related tonsensory issues. For example, some people have avute hearing which makes the world so loud that they go into sensory
overload. That’s one area where you see meltdowns. And a lot of behaviors like self stimulation, echolalia, repetitive motion have muchbtondomwith finding comfort. So when older brothrr had a bad dream, had meltdowns at the vicational school and the book signing, it was probably a response to a huge sensory issue. A famous autistuc person, Temple Grandin, invented a hug machine, thst offered her compression to deal with these horrible sensory issues. And if you notice, older brother sleeps in a tent that blocks out the light, and to continue the butterfly references, offers him a coccoon. So butterfly hug acts like Temple Grandin’s machine and privides a bitnof coccoon. The details of this drama are so good. Also note the face/emotion chart-used to help ASD people decode emotions. Hope this
@GB, the rose in a glass lantern reminded me of the rose in Beauty and the Beast. The Beast had to learn how to love and to receive love before the last petal fell. If he could not, he would remain a beast forever.
It’s strange in this drama to have a butterflies be linked to bad memories – sort of putting butterflies where bats might normally be used.
Ref balcony, at the end of Chapter 2, when GT and the nurse are outside with the father in his wheelchair, they are on a balcony-like edge overlooking the town below. They are unaware that MY is below approaching the hospital at that moment.
I love the red shoe links to the Wizard of Oz and to the Red Shoes.
@Old American Lady
That emotions chart was the first thing I noticed.
Didn’t know about the hug machine so will check and yes that helps 🙂
@GB
She plucks the petals and tries decide if she should help or not. In the end she does. She moves away from the icy hole only after she sees that the boy has used the float to come out and I thought it was implied that she threw the float or whatever that is. Similarly (drawing a parallel and showing us her character), at the signing She observes the scene and does another should I-shouldn’t I, before stepping in.
I did not see that as an image in itself but as a montage. This might not help with the interpretation of the image but with another interpretation of the sequence, maybe.
My question is: the little boy got scared and ran away when she asked if he would like her even when she chops the wings of the butterfly (meaning that kills it). She wanted to know if he will be there unconditionally and as he is not, she succeeded in pushing him away— so why does she decide to follow him now? Yes, there is sexual attraction but nothing beyond that?
Now that we have established that potentially MY’s mother could be alive, I am wondering if she’s the one who killed KT’s mother and then made a run for it? It’s a small country town (? smaller than bustling Seoul anyway), having to raise a child with special needs couldn’t have been easy so you would naturally gravitate towards someone in a similar circumstance? I don’t know but somehow I keep getting Great Expectation vibes. Beautiful house, a cold but pretty princess in a high tower (Estella), a controlling mother (Ms Havisham), a besotted boy (Pip).
@Fern
That’s an analogy worth considering. From the animation of Ep 1, we believe MY is told by her mother that she’s a monster (ie a beast), and that no one will remain beside her. She’s like a beautiful rose, isolated in the lantern. Although she’s unreachable, butterflies are still attracted and hover around her.
As a beautiful red rose in a lantern, (as opposed to a withered, black one in a box), there is an element of hope. We would like her to emit light that will be beneficial to others, rather than be someone who continually uses people as objects.
This is a good point. It’s a nice reversal and perhaps the signal of a change. In all other similar ‘looking down’ scenes, it is MY who is the one looking down at those whom she may consider her lackeys. This time, her father, GT and Nurse Ju Ri are the ones looking down upon her. We hope for a change in the dynamics of their inter-relationships with this unprecedented shift.
In the past it was the Boy who followed the Girl through all terrain and weather. Here MY arrives in the rain, bringing a metaphorical storm with her, and this time it is the Girl who follows the Boy.
@No One
Yes it is implied that fortunately for GT, the flower petals ended with ‘Help’ rather than ‘Don’t help’, and so she threw him the float. There was no sense of choosing what was morally right or good, just an impartial decision. We are left to wonder, if the petals had ended with ‘Don’t help’, whether she’d have walked away in the same indifferent manner, leaving GT to drown.
That act of hers had hooked her a follower.
At the Book Signing, it was similar and yet different. She had no flower petals to aid her decision, and the overreaction of the family towards ST had impinged upon MY’s own interests. She considered what would be most beneficial to her, what compensation she should get or what would be the most equitable, in her cold way of judging fairness. She may not have had any actual care for poor ST, but she wanted to be able to manipulate GT, and intervening could serve this purpose. She could perhaps hook him.
In spite of which, to tell the truth, was it not cathartic even for us viewers, to see nasty people getting their comeuppance: the exact same treatment that others had received at their hands? (Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, taken to its rigidly calculated extreme, but ‘fair’ end.)
Her brand of judgement and execution was meted out as exactly determined by the guilt and confessions of the guilty parties. It was both horrifying and satisfying.
Going back to the initial animation. The Girl “was lonely and bored”. That got her to go down to befriend other children with gifts.
Saving the Boy had got her a follower/play mate for a while. She knows that between herself and GT, they are actually fascinated with each other. She has discovered that GT is indeed the same follower who had abandoned her, in her youth, after promising that he’d never leave her side. She might be just getting herself a playmate because she’s still lonely and bored.
The opportunity to manipulate him to return to her side, and fulfill his promise is maybe an irresistible game to her. We know that she likes to test people, like she’s playing a game. She asks them to guess what something means, or gives them horrific choices to make. It amuses her.
It’s she, however, who’s in the Red Shoes, and chasing after GT, while GT, by returning to Seongjin City, has decided to start facing his demons and to work past his cowardice. Who will be the controller and who the controlled? This is going to be interesting.
You guys are SO amazing. @GB @welmaris. @nrllee, @fern and the rest. Can we please have a podcast of BoD ? Notwithstanding the challenge of an international podcast with multiple participants 🙈 that way, I’ll be able to “read” you guys… Else I’m missing out on so much ! 😭
@nrllee I did not read or watch Alias Grace, but I gather it was also disturbing and had a suspenseful end with a twist. Is that right?
Thanks for more on the butterfly as emblem for mental health. I wasn’t aware of it.
I looked it up and found this about the Monarch Butterfly: “The Monarch Butterfly is a majestic butterfly which has been chosen as a symbol for people affected by mental illness. In the early stage of its development, the cocoon-like condition of the butterfly resembles the depressed and withdrawn feelings commonly shared by people whose lives are affected by mental illness. It is without beauty or even the promise of brightness. The transition from cocoon to the delicate monarch, rich in color, symbolizes the journey so many people travel when their lives are affected by mental illness. The colors of the triumphant monarch suggests warm sunshine, brightness and hope. Just as people affected by mental illness travel toward recovery, health and wholeness, the majestic monarch overcomes many obstacles as it travels hundreds of miles in migration.” (from http://mentalhealthmonmouth.org/about-us/our-symbol/)
MY is not mentally ill in the usual way, but she and even Sang Tae with Gang Tae are like the butterfly in arrested development. Stuck in their cocoons.
Nice analogy with Great Expectations. I ‘studied’ it eons ago… I had to go look it up to remember how it went. Yes, there’s the house that was once grand but in the animation looks abandoned and run down, just like Miss Havisham’s home. There’s also that vibe of people being manipulated as Estella and Pip were (and how MY might have been both the victim and is now a perpetrator of manipulation), and secrets kept by the adults like Miss Havisham and Magwitch (we wonder what secrets MY’s dad keeps, what happened to MY’s mum, who killed GT’s mum).
There’s an element of being stuck in the past, atrophying, decaying like Miss Havisham’s rotting wedding banquet (both MY and GT continue as they have always done, stuck in the rut of their own traumas, with MY alone and bored/GT repeatedly running away). While MY does not suffer from misandry like Estella, she does regard GT as an object for her gratification. MY may think she can toy with GT, the way that Estella thought she could make Drummle’s life miserable by marrying him, but it’s likely that MY will find herself mistaken.
Also, although this kdrama is set in the modern times, the house of MY’s youth, candle stands, old fashioned decor and :MY’s styling seem to belong to a time long past. This too gives a vibe of a distant era, as Dickens’ times are to us.
@GB Yes to Alias Grace. Disturbing. That’s what the chandelier, old fashioned decor in the house reminded me of. A bygone era. Also I found this exchange interesting (After her encounter with sleazy guy)
MY – don’t get me angry. I’ll explode
KT – that’s why I taught you the butterfly hug
MY – that stuff is useless. I want you to be my safety pin
KT – what?
MY – keep me under control so I don’t explode.
KT – you told me to mind my own business. You told me I had no right to stop you
MY – you hold grudges
KT – that’s right
MY – I am giving you the right to be Ko MoonYoung’s safety pin
KT – why would I be your safety pin?
MY – because you’re a caregiver. Isn’t it your job to keep an eye out for potential patients and care for them?
She wants him to be there to prevent her from causing harm? From taking her judgement (?) too far? Because she can’t stop herself? He stopped her from stabbing the man backstage. He tried to stop her from doing the same to the sleazy guy. She manipulates him because she knows he can’t help himself from caring. It’s not exactly a healthy relationship by any means. But it’s an interesting insight into why she wants him around.
@nrllee, ref safety pin, I was thinking about the sort of pin used for fabric that’s a variation of the regular pin which includes a simple spring mechanism and a clasp. If it comes undone, someone gets pricked. However, looking at the dialog above, I think she means the sort of pin in a grenade. (Do’oh) If that comes away, people die. Might it be her veiled way of asking for help?
It’s interesting that MY has stalked KT to a hospital where the Director’s specialty is PTSD. If the director is trustworthy, perhaps there’s hope for some, if not all, of the leads.
Ref clothing and music: I’m finding the clothing fascinating from an aesthetic point of view. Not many could pull off the Victorian-Gothic look but there’s a fair selection online so people are buying it. The girl’s clothes look like those small, exquisitely expensive private labels that the rich and royal buy for their children. The music suits the strange, off-kilter feeling of the drama, too.
Hey guys here’s my analysis on the boy who fed on nightmares. The story definitely shows what Moo Young is dealing with if she is having PTSD. Its another long post so I’ll post about what the witch said to the boy. I think they link to her feelings about the flashbacks she has.
On the other hand the boy also represents Moo Young. That’s how I first saw it as before seeing Sang Tae’s memories. The witch specifically says to the boy “ʜᴜʀᴛғᴜʟ, ᴘᴀɪɴғᴜʟ ᴍᴇᴍᴏʀɪᴇs, ᴍᴇᴍᴏʀɪᴇs ᴏғ ᴅᴇᴇᴘ ʀᴇɢʀᴇᴛs, ᴍᴇᴍᴏʀɪᴇs ᴏғ ʜᴜɴᴛɪɴɢ ᴏᴛʜᴇʀs ᴀɴᴅ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ʜᴜʀᴛ, ᴍᴇᴍᴏʀɪᴇs ᴏғ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ᴀʙᴀɴᴅᴏɴᴇᴅ, ᴏɴʟʏ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ᴡɪᴛʜ sᴜᴄʜ ᴍᴇᴍᴏʀɪᴇs ʙᴜʀɪᴇᴅ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇɪʀ ʜᴇᴀʀᴛs ᴄᴀɴ ʙᴇᴄᴏᴍᴇ sᴛʀᴏɴɢᴇʀ, ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴘᴀssɪᴏɴᴀᴛᴇ ᴀɴᴅ ᴇᴍᴏᴛɪᴏɴᴀʟʟʏ ғʟᴇxɪʙʟᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ᴏɴʟʏ ᴛʜᴏsᴇ ᴄᴀɴ ᴀᴛᴛᴀɪɴ ʜᴀᴘᴘɪɴᴇss, sᴏ ᴅᴏɴ’ᴛ ғᴏʀɢᴇᴛ ᴀɴʏ ᴏғ ɪᴛ, ʀᴇᴍᴇᴍʙᴇʀ ɪᴛ ᴀʟʟ ᴀɴᴅ ᴏᴠᴇʀᴄᴏᴍᴇ ɪᴛ, ɪғ ʏᴏᴜ ᴅᴏɴ’ᴛ ᴏᴠᴇʀᴄᴏᴍᴇ ɪᴛ, ʏᴏᴜ’ʟʟ ᴀʟᴡᴀʏs ʙᴇ ᴀ ᴋɪᴅ ᴡʜᴏsᴇ sᴏᴜʟ ɴᴇᴠᴇʀ ɢʀᴏᴡs”
I think this phrase foreshadows and gives us an inkling or clues to what happened in the past. I am on the side that Moo Young’s own nightmares/flashbacks of being strangled by her father is also connected to Gang Tae’s situation. Because they met each other at that age where things went south. So, I believe that she has a connection to the murder of Gang Tae’s mum, I’m not thinking she was the one who did it. But I have a feeling she interfered and here’s why using these hints.
First, the witch describes the boy’s memories as memories of actions he deeply regrets. My theory is that whatever caused Moo Young’s family to act out on her relates to her ASPD and she has regrets that for causing her family to suffer because of it. Not on purpose, she can’t control the situation and like I said she doesn’t hurt people intentionally. She does it as a defence mechanism. But with her disorder, and her own story at the beginning about the girl who was a monster, it’s her mother who called her a monster and said she would be all alone. This hints again that her family probably had issues with her disorder.
This also links to another part of the memories the witch mentions, the memories of being abandoned. Moo Young probably feels abandoned by her family because of their lack of love for her because of her disorder, and she also feels abandoned by the world because of how they view her. She also feels abandoned by Gang Tae when he was a child because he ran away from her because of her killing the butterflies. This is also another thing to understand about this character even if she doesn’t feel emotions because of her disorder, she still feels wronged for how people view her actions.
This brings me back to what she wants to use these fairy tales for in her life. To have control over her own life instead of being controlled by her disorder which she probably doesn’t even think she has. She fails to realise she needs therapy. But she wants to become stronger so no one can hurt her, like she knows she’s being attacked by people who want to use her disorder to ruin her (the book reviewer she pushed of the stairs), she wants to be come more passionate despite the fact that she struggles to do so, she clearly is passionate about fairy tales and about protecting people wronged. She shows this because of how she defends Gang Tae, and how she defends the little girl whose dad wanted to hurt her in episode 1. She also sadly wants to become emotionally flexible, but she can’t because of her disorder.
Again I mentioned her stories are all about futility and lack of control, she wants to be able to do things but she knows she’s not like that, she can’t feel like others, even pain which has been shown numerous times so far (she’s not afraid to be hurt, she uses a knife on her self to make a point). And just like the boy is desperate to become happy and in control of his emotions instead of being stuck and hunted by the emptiness of his nightmares. She also wants to be happy and normal instead of being stuck with her lack of emotions and with the emptiness of her memories of the people who left her(her father is in hospital she doesn’t see him and avoids him, her mum is missing, Gang Tae was not in her life for a while). In the end like the boy she feels alone.
I wrote more but this makes me feel bad for her so far. And I can’t wait till she finally starts getting healed from her PTSD and trauma.
The ripped photo (MY looked at) is intriguing
https://i.imgur.com/07FTJwU.jpg
@nrllee, the photo shows an adult hand on the left; I would assume the mother’s. The portrait is very formal and solemn. Neither father nor daughter is smiling. The chair and room look dark and Victorian. I wonder who ripped the photo?
This seems a strange style for a renowned architect, assuming he is known for innovative design. Most architects like to design their homes to showcase their talent and so tend to be cutting edge. Of course, he might be known for pseudo Victoriana, I suppose, or it might have been what his wife preferred.
What an odd family photograph! As @Fern noted, it is very formal and solemn. Not only is no one smiling, they are also distancing from each other and not touching.
MY’s story about Nightmare Boy advised to confront one’s bad memories head on, and that’s exactly what GT is starting to do. She does not seem to be following her own advice though. (She too was avoiding Seongjin City and her father.)
I want to see more flashbacks!
@nrllee and @Fern Oh great! I wanted to go back to look for that photo and you’ve kindly posted it here.
So that photo tells us that the family not at all close. Each was in their own space and not intruding into the next person’s space. Since it’s a photo that MY has, I assume that she tore out the part with her mum in it. She folded away the dad instead, which seems to mean, that although he was ‘dead to her’ (as she told CEO Lee in the car), she did not reject him outright. Now that’s interesting, since it was he (and not her mum) who had tried to kill her.
The mum, of whom we know little except from the Character Brief that @nrllee found for us, was the one brainwashing MY that she was an unloveable monster. I’m assuming that her brand of ‘love’ was obsessively controlling and that MY wanted to tear her out of her life. She tried to kill her soul, not her body. The opposite of MY’s dad. 😒 😖 😑
However MY finds that her mother’s words/influence still play upon her mind (she says the mother is physically dead but her soul is alive). So the killer of the soul is the one MY totally rejects, while the killer of the body she tolerates as long as she does not have to have anything to do with him. However, she did sign the papers to enable him to get the surgery.
Now that she and dad are going to be in the same place, I wonder what’s going to happen. Poor dad will have a fit when he sees her roaming about the hospital. How nice if part of the healing involved some form of reconciliation between them.
@nrllee @Fern
About that Safety Pin – another great metaphor to examine. I started on this post early this morning but RL took over and I’m only back now more than 12 hours later!!!
Yes, I believe MY was referring to the safety pin in a hand grenade, but the regular safety pin gives us more to think about actually.
If we just think of it as a regular safety pin
– yes, someone can get pricked (normally the one on whose clothes it is pinned, ie MY herself), but anyone else who brushes against that sharp point too.
– MY is the one who chooses to pin on that safety pin, so she is the one controlling the pin and where it goes and when (if ever) it is released. It’s likely she thinks she can have GT under her thumb, or that it will be fun for her to try to do this.
– when the pin is undone, the pieces of cloth that was pinned together comes apart – MY can fall apart. But since she’s doing quite well without ST, this part is a fallacy. While she may never achieve greater wholesomeness without GT, she won’t actually fall apart unless she does it deliberately.
As the pin on a hand grenade – as @Fern says – she claims to need him in place so that the grenade won’t detonate/she won’t explode. Another fallacy.
Regardless of what safety pin she means, it’s a very unfair thing that MY is making GT responsible for. It would be nice if it is a genuine call for help and if she also means to cooperate with his help. It’s a different matter, if it’s a mind game to her.
Taking it as her deciding that he should be her safety pin. She’s put the onus on him, as if he has control over her outbursts, … as if she does not need to control herself (and she may just absolve herself from that responsibility when he is around or blame him when he is not beside her.)
Don’t know if she’ll ask his permission, but it looks like she autocratically decides that he’s in charge of keeping her in check, that he should be HER caregiver. She has ignored that he said ‘No’ to her, and has stalked him to OK Hospital afterall. She may try to blame him for any of her lapses. That’s an untenable position for GT. I hope he can maneuver out of her ‘game’, if game it is.
One of my thoughts in the beginning… there’s hope. Now we need to know more about this doctor.
I hope GT is strong enough to withstand the onslaught of MY. She can do all she wants in trying to make him her Red Shoes, and as a caring sort, he may want to help. But rather than remaining the Red Shoes that stopped Karen from doing what she wanted, maybe he can transition to the angel who returned to lead her to the better solution for her life.
Aside about simple safety pins: In my experience at athletics competitions the athletes, especially younger ones, need help with pinning numbers on. 4 pins on the front and 4 on the back to keep them in place. I would claim that the helper gets pricked more often than the wearer!
I found it interesting that she spoke about the red shoes that could never be taken away and implied that GT is that to her. She said she missed him. I took that to mean that she missed him from back in Seoul, but also from since the last time she saw him when they were children.
@Snow Flower, I wondered if MY was avoiding her hometown, but the publisher’s assistant said that MY checked out of her hotel room, so perhaps she still has her family home in Seongjin City. (Is it a real place? I could only see a reference to somewhere in N. Korea.)
@GB @Fern I think the safety pin for the grenade fits better in that conversation context but the safety pin to hold things together works too. And yes to the family photo – cold, distant coupled with the somber backdrop, not exactly screaming “happy family”. Yes that’s how I interpreted her invitation for him to be her safety pin. She could tell that he wasn’t one to ignore her outbursts? That’s why he ran to try to stop her from harming sleazy man? He tried to walk away and leave her to be responsible for her own actions (with the butterfly hug) but she is undeterred. JuRi will also be an interesting addition to the pair of them. All of them at the hospital. Should make for interesting viewing.
Btw I got some of the character briefs translated. The document is here (The main ones were translated by someone who reads Korean. The other minor ones were just Google so it sounds odd)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11ViqyTvQnbXorVKJpYbvcyI8w_yNYaU4GeV0S7iPTbk/
Sorry wrong link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ykmEOlf-4saUIv2GHgIbUQdhsFziWGMlUppjNNXiZs/
Wow, these character descriptions are so poetic! I am creeped out by the hint that sweet nurse Ju Ri has a hidden side to her.
MY is 30 years old (29 in Western years) and her career started 10 years ago, when she was 19. Mary Shelley was also 19 when she wrote Frankenstein.
Thanks @nrllee!
Thank you for the character descriptions, @nrllee. Yes, interesting about ‘sweet’ Ju Ri. She didn’t drink when with GT’s friend, so that behaviour is yet to come. Also it seems to hint that the mother may still be alive.
I’ve wondered if the mother is in a coma, if MY says that she’s dead but her soul is still alive. But no, she couldn’t have been declared dead, at least not in Korea where she would be documented. Or she might be dead and her body not found.
Hi @pkml3, I believe you’re really tied up since on the day before a show airs, you will usually post the Open Thread for the next 2 episodes. I trust all is well with you and that you’re getting enough rest while wrestling with all the challenges of real life. Take care!
I’m rewatching the first two episodes and noticed something: When Sang Tae has a meltdown at the tech school, shown at the beginning of ep. 1, it is because someone turned the dial to tighten the head strap of his hardhat. The dial is at the back of his head. Sang Tae’s meltdown at the book signing happened after mean dad pulled his hair at the back of his head. MY even guessed that ST has a very sensitive head. I’m guessing this is important, and we’ll learn more about it.
I was really anticipated this series. The first two episodes were great; watched each of them 3 times already. Honestly, I just like to watch the scenes w/ KMY & MKT. You can feel the emotional connection between the 2–though it could be somewhat dark. Eyes dripping with honey is all over the place w/ them.
Who is the Butterfly? There is definitely a connection between the Ko and Moon family. KMY kills butterflies and MST mentions (1) killer was the buttefly, (2) every season he has nightmares about butterfly? Coinicidence? I think not.
I liked how they told the story w/ the cartoon in the beginning–he followed her around b/c she had her fish line in him. It seems like now the tables have turned and he has her fish line on her–following him to OK Hospital b/c she missed him.
I also like the scene in episode 2 where MST was going to retrieve his brother at the book signing–after sleazy book critic falls down the stairs. KMY tells MST that he is running away and he is a coward. The elevator door closes between the two of them and they each see their own reflection. That brief second of inner reflection on themselves. KMY realizes she will chase him. MST realizes he has been running away from his problems.
Glad the psychological and mental aspect of the series isn’t too heavy hearted. That was one of my biggest concerns going into the series, however, we’ll see how it goes.
@welmaris good catch about the meltdown in Ep1. MY said the back of his head is like a grenade/trigger point. So potentially it may have something to do with the murder of his mom (maybe or maybe not)? But autistic people do have sensory triggers in varying degrees. For some it’s auditory (sounds), others olfactory (smell), others gustatory (taste) and still others tactile (touch). For a lot it’s a combination of all of it.
@JohnL I agree about how clever it is to utilize stories and fairytales to give us insights into the world as seen by those who have special needs. It does lighten the heaviness of the topic of mental issues. It is less confrontational? It’s an attempt to make it more palatable so the public can come to a better understanding of what it’s like and hopefully make the world a better place for everyone involved.
Heh! @Welmaris, you beat me to it! I noticed it too.
I also went back to watch what set ST off in vocational school and saw that it was once again the touching of the back of his head. MY was pretty astutue, (although naughty in teasing that it might be an erogenous zone). It may not be something that GT is aware of, otherwise he’d have warned the vocational school people not to touch ST’s head or something. But yes, there is a trigger to ST’s meltdowns and so… we bitches want to know … (or at least I do), what might be the triggers for GT’s or MY’s over-reactive/different/’abnormal’ behaviour in the future.
To add to the observations about ST’s sensitivity relating to his head: during the scenes where he and GT are in the police station following their mother’s murder, ST frequently touches the back of his head. And during his meltdown at the book signing, ST repeatedly says “Don’t touch my hair.” That episode includes very quick flashbacks of a floor mop and a wheel that looks like one on a gurney. We shall see what those images foreshadow.
@JohnL
I was saying above that there’s the element of ‘destiny’ or what Koreans call ‘fate’. They have the butterfly connection LOL.
Yes. This time he has hooked her by his wanting to see her eyes again, while rejecting the bribe. I like the tit for tat in this. She is a person who seems to have that way of understanding fairness. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, etc. So in this she is ‘giving back’.
Nice piece of insight @John L.
@nrllee About using stories:
I imagine that this is the motive for the making of this show. (Were there any interviews on this that tell us what the writer and director wanted to say in this work?)
It was deliberately darkish and disturbing, mashing in multiple kinds of disorders (psychological/personality/developmental) but with elements of warmth and hope. I want to see how Show addresses the prejudices, corrects misinformation (in the way GT repeatedly says that MY is not sick but born that way, while JS and others call her insane) and offers a solution to living with people of these disorders, and to the people themselves who are often misjudged and mistreated.
The good thing about MY’s stories are that they are MY’s way of speaking about her experiences and of course we learn from them her attitudes and way of thinking, since the art work should reflect the mind of the artist . So far (because I cannot read the Korean), I only know of 2 titles and they both deal with a boy. The Boy Who Fed on Nightmares and Zombie Boy. From the conversation with the little girl at the restaurant, we know that they also feature a beautiful witch rather than a princess. From the clue that Show gave in pointing out GT as the Zombie boy, we assume that her stories may revolve around herself (the witch) and perhaps the only friend of her youth GT).
We also see from her stories and how she gives tit for tat, that there’s a certain sense of justice and fairness with her. Now that she knows GT is the boy of her youth, she will want to ensure that he gives what he promises, ie he did say he’d always be beside her, which suits the image of The Red Shoes. It’s no wonder that she’ll turn up next to him a great deal.
@Welmaris thanks! More stuff to take a note of, in spite of which, I may forget and still need a reminder. LOL.
@GB this is what PD said at the press con
The drama includes fantasy elements and features famous fairy tales such as “The Red Shoes” and “Bluebeard,” as well as tales for adults that were made just for the show. Director Park Shin Woo said, “The female lead character is a writer of cruel fairy tales. The drama is similar to such fairy tales in that they both blur the distinction between normal and abnormal, and common sense and senselessness.”
He went on to say that he thinks that everyone in the world is a bit crazy, and that the drama will give people the opportunity to reflect on themselves. “The core message of the drama is, ‘You have to look at people as they are,’” he said.
Wow thanks @nrllee! Heheheheh! “everyone in the world is a bit crazy,” …. I agree or rather, can I say that I believe all of us are actually on spectrums. I imagine that we are on spectrums of craziness, assorted disorders, giftedness, etc. So I do agree that we may fit maybe a normal-ish range in spectrums and have the ‘normal’ responsiveness / reactions most of the time, but that actually we can veer off from ‘normal’ range under certain circumstances.
We may have different triggers, some of which are like that Safety Pin of the grenade or some are like the regular safety pin. Some pins take ages to loosen and pop out, some pop too soon. Some people explode, others end up scratching, with the sharp pin tip, themselves or others.
I like that the PD wants to “give people the opportunity to reflect on themselves.” Something to do before we judge, so that we won’t be too quick to judge.
His core message, how would you interpret it?
We need to know the other first and accept them without pre-judging? We should not let our/other’s attitudes colour how we view people, when we don’t even know them? Take people at face value without prejudice?
@Welmaris, Great call-Many people on the spectrum have heightened sensitivity to the point of pain. In response they have meltdowns. Am curious to see if there is an origin story. And my hope is that our older brother doesn’t become a prop. He is a human being after all.
I am so late in this game because I’ve just gotten over TKEM! Have just finished watching the first 2 episodes of PBIO, and have gained so many new insights thanks to all the comments here.
@GB: I agree with @Fern that the rose in the glass dome was a nod to beauty and the beast. Also, the idea that I get from the balcony paper cut out as well as MY standing alone on the balcony is that of Rapunzel, standing high and isolated from the world. Also, did you notice that in the animation, the girl’s hair started growing and it became the shadow? It’s like how the witch would use Rapunzel’s hair to climb up the tower. Her hair was her physical connection to the witch.
The fairytales of Beauty and the beast, Rapunzel, the Red Shoes, and even the Boy who fed on Nightmares, all seem to point to the idea of being trapped, where only love can bring about release. Also, the scenes of the opening credits, with the empty house, keys and the white butterfly reminded me of an episode in Criminal Minds (The Fisher King), where a father abducts and locks his own daughter in the basement. The episode references an actual book (The collector: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collector), which is about a story of a man who is obsessed with an art student, and kidnaps her and holds her captive in his home. This man is a collector of butterflies, and the cover of the book features a white butterfly, as well as a key, which remind me of the scenes in the opening credits. Not sure if it’s of any relation to the show though, but in the book, the man wants to add the girl to his collection of pretty things… which reminds me of the way MY talks about wanting things/people.
Thats a great idea. It could be instead of the father it could be her mother? Thats what we’re being told through the subtext of every episode. Her mother saw her as an object instead of someone with feelings.
@beingwritten Yes that’s what I thought too? (Btw, enjoyed reading your insights very much!)
@nrllee translated the character briefs (thanks so much, you always have all the insider info!), and this was the one on MY’s mum’s:
“While writing, I might have neglected my husband, but I devoted myself to raising my daughter. I cared and loved as if it were my whole life. The night after the final book of the “The Murder of the Western Witch” series, which had been running for five years. She disappears without a trace from the ‘forest castle’ her husband built.”
That obsessiveness with her daughter seems similar.